Windrush

Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd May 2018 Commons Chamber

[Simon Hoare (North Dorset) (Con)]

At the moment the right hon. Lady has not said a word that I have disagreed with, and I thank her for how she has said it. She referred to an issue that will not go away. Another issue that will not go away is, of course, the issue of illegal immigration, which is absolutely embedded within this whole debate. Can or will the right hon. Lady be—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. [Interruption.] Order!

[Simon Hoare]

I am sorry; I did not hear you.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Lindsay Hoyle)]

I am sorry; I normally am heard, but I have a very quiet voice, as you well know. Lots of people here have a very keen interest in this debate, and I want to make sure that everybody who has put their name in does speak. If we are going to have interventions, will those who are hoping to speak please try not to intervene? You will end up moving yourself down the list—and please, interventions must be short.

[Ms Abbott]

I listened with interest to what the hon. Member for North Dorset (Simon Hoare) said, but he will understand that this debate is being watched all over the Commonwealth, and by the Windrush generation people themselves, and it is important that we all show a genuine concern, because they are the focus of the debate.

The Windrush scandal raises a number of issues of paramount importance. The first duty of the state is to defend the safety and security of its citizens, but under this Government’s policies we have a situation where citizens of this country are being denied their liberty through immigration detention, are being refused re-entry to this, their own country, have been made homeless or jobless, have been denied NHS treatment and have been left destitute. They have been, and continue to be, threatened with deportation. We have a situation where some citizens of this country do not have their security and safety defended. In fact, the agency undermining their safety and security is this Government and their policies.

Let me turn to the role of the Prime Minister, both currently and in her previous position as Home Secretary.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mrs Main]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Several times, the right hon. Lady has graciously given way or has indicated that she is about to give way, but now it seems that she has received instructions from behind her.

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

Let me reassure the House: it is up to the Member who is speaking whether they— [Interruption.] Order. Thank you for the advice, but I am quite capable of speaking for myself. What I would say is that it is up to the Member who is speaking whether they give way or not. I want to make sure that everybody gets in. Quite rightly, if the shadow Home Secretary does not want to give way, she does not need to.

[Ms Abbott]

I am conscious that a number of hon. Members want to contribute to the debate, and therefore I am anxious to make progress.

So given that the Prime Minister knew so much about the target regime, we have to wonder, when she heard the various denials from the former Home Secretary, why did she not think to correct the record, or at least advise the then Home Secretary accurately to correct the record. Why did she not do that?

The Prime Minister’s record and her responsibility are clear. We have had go-home vans; the “deport first, appeal later” policy; targets for removals and for unsuccessful immigration appeals; protections against—

--- Later in debate ---

[Anna Soubry (Broxtowe) (Con)]

Would the right hon. Lady like to find out? Will she give way?

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. Can we please have a little less noise from the Back Benches? The right hon. Member for Broxtowe (Anna Soubry) will be called to speak early in the debate and we want to hear her contribution, so I do not want her to waste her voice by shouting too much.

[Ms Abbott]

Do Government Members understand how voting against this motion will look to the Commonwealth and the Windrush generation here? Do Government Members understand how the laughter that we heard a few minutes ago will be seen by the Windrush generation? It is as if they do not take this issue seriously.

[Anna Soubry]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Could the record show that there was no laughter on these Benches, as has just been alleged?

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

That is certainly not a point of order, but I can assure hon. Members that there was laughter from both sides of the House.

[Ms Abbott]

As I was saying, Members of the Windrush generation and people who live in Commonwealth countries will be watching this debate, and they will have heard Government Members laugh. They will get the sense that Government Members are not taking this matter entirely seriously.

[Dr Murrison]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. The right hon. Lady just referred to this as a debate. I seek your guidance on whether this can legitimately be described as a debate given that the right hon. Lady consistently refuses to take interventions from Conservative Members.

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

Dr Murrison, you and I both know that that is definitely not a point of order. I will repeat what I said at the beginning, which is that it is up to each individual whether they wish to give way. That is how the House works and it is how the House will continue.

[Ms Abbott]

I remind the Home Secretary of the information that many of us campaigning on the issue want. We want to have the figures for deportations. Ministers are currently saying that there have been no deportations.

[James Cartlidge]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Is it in order to table a motion that calls on the sovereign potentially to breach the Data Protection Act 1998 and, in particular, the general data protection regulation rules that will be coming into force in two weeks’ time in relation to text messages?

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

I am getting very worried that somebody just might make a point of order, but that is definitely not one.

[Ms Abbott]

I said at the beginning of my speech that we should focus on the Windrush generation. It will not look well to them or any of our constituents if Government Members seek to go off on some kind of tangent.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jeremy Quin]

rose—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. I think the right hon. Lady has given notice that she will not be giving way.

[Ms Abbott]

We need to know more about the process—

--- Later in debate ---

[Clive Efford]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker—and this is a genuine point of order. The hon. Member for St Albans (Mrs Main) just asked for the publication of documents that go back before 2010. If you were willing to accept a manuscript amendment to the motion, would the Government then support the motion?

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

I am not going to accept a manuscript amendment.

[Mrs Main]

Further to that point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. To clarify, I did not ask if—[Interruption.]

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

Order. I cannot hear what the point of order is. I cannot make a ruling on something I have not heard.

[Mrs Main]

There seems to be an allegation that I wish to see documents from 2009. I prefaced my remarks by mentioning the overly burdensome nature of what the motion requests and questioned why the Opposition were so selective, when some of this was on their watch.

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

That is a point of correction.

[Sajid Javid]

I was just coming on to the greater transparency measures that I want to put in place. First, I will be writing each month to the right hon. Member for Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford (Yvette Cooper) to give her and the House a report on progress. Secondly, I will also be writing to her each month on the latest position on detentions, removals and deportations. Thirdly, I will bring independent oversight and challenge to a lessons-learned review already under way in my Department. That review will seek to draw out how members of the Windrush generation came to be entangled in measures designed for illegal immigrants, why that was not spotted sooner and whether the right corrective measures are now in place. I have asked my permanent secretary to give the review the resources it needs and to aim to complete its work before the summer recess.

[Sajid Javid]

I said earlier in the House that I am interested in a compliant, not a hostile environment. But, talking of a hostile environment, my hon. Friend reminds me of some of the hard left who have joined the Labour party ever since the right hon. Member for Islington North became Leader of the Opposition and how their anti-Semitism has been tolerated—[Interruption.]

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

Order. I cannot hear a word for the shouting. My problem is that if I cannot hear, I cannot make a judgment on what is being said. We have to keep in order. This is making life very difficult and does not do us any favours.

[Sajid Javid]

I was talking about members of the hard left who have created a hostile environment in their own party and people who welcomed my appointment by calling me a coconut and an Uncle Tom. If that is something the Leader of the Opposition thinks is wrong, why does he not get up at the Dispatch Box right now and denounce them? [Interruption.] I did not think he would want to say anything, and we know exactly what he thinks about a hostile environment in the Labour party against people’s backgrounds. [Interruption.]

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

Order. The House must come to order. I want to hear this debate. We have constituents who want to hear this debate. This debate is very important to this country and the people of this country.

[Ms Abbott]

I simply want to respond to the Home Secretary by saying that I have been online condemning the racist abuse against him. I know what racist abuse is. Everyone in the Opposition, without exception, condemns the names that he has been called.