Outsourcing and Tax Credits

Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts

Friday 4th November 2016 Commons Chamber

[Simon Kirby]

Clearly, there are lessons to be learned from this—[Interruption.]

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order.

[Simon Kirby]

I have had the pleasure of responding to debates on this in Westminster Hall and in this Chamber, and this is now the third occasion I have had such an opportunity to respond. There are clearly lessons to be learned. The Financial Secretary has made the Government’s position very clear: Concentrix will not be providing the service in the future. However, there is no change to Government policy on outsourcing, which can be an appropriate way to deliver both quality public services and, importantly, to make savings for the taxpayer. We will have to wait to see what the independent National Audit Office review shows, but I am sure we are all looking forward to it. As I have said, there are many lessons to be learned.

--- Later in debate ---

[Simon Kirby]

I would say three things in response. First, if the hon. Lady feels that her constituent has been wrongly treated, she should write and apply for compensation. Secondly, it is worth saying that the savings to the taxpayer are probably in excess of £200 million —not a small sum. Thirdly, yes, there are lessons to be learned—[Interruption.] I shall have to say that even more often, because it obviously gets a reaction. As a Government, we would be foolish not to learn lessons and not to make sure that the service we provide is as good and appropriate as possible. [Interruption.] The hon. Lady says from a sedentary position that this is turning into a debate, Mr Deputy Speaker. She asks whether we are going to come back and report. We shall have to wait for the independent NAO report.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

The danger is that the Minister is going to keep the debate going.

[Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con)]

Does the Minister agree that there is a great deal of amnesia on the Opposition Benches? I well remember the misery caused to my constituents when 50% of all tax credits were paid incorrectly during the course of the last Labour Government. I welcome what my hon. Friend said about Concentrix. What financial penalties will the Government impose on Concentrix for the cock-ups it has made?

--- Later in debate ---

[Simon Kirby]

What I can say is that the penalties referred to in the contract will be taken from the money paid to Concentrix and will go to HMRC, and that any compensation that is appropriate and due will come from HMRC.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Last but certainly not least, Daniel Zeichner.

[Daniel Zeichner (Cambridge) (Lab)]

I think we have got the message that the Minister wants lessons to be learned. Will he assure us that all that the minutes, recordings and transcripts relating to the process that led up to the tendering of the contract will be published?

[Mr John Spellar (Warley) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. In the age of emojis, is there any way in which Hansard will be able to report the look on the Minister’s face when he responded to the question asked by the hon. Member for Manchester, Withington (Jeff Smith)? It said it all.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Absolutely not.