European Union (Future Relationship) Bill

Liam Fox Excerpts

2nd reading & 2nd reading: House of Commons
Wednesday 30th December 2020 Commons Chamber

[Ian Blackford]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. We will accept your guidance on these things, although I was looking forward to the debate that we were having.

Now that we see the scale of the bad Brexit deal, the question before the Scottish people is clear: which Union does Scotland wish to be part of? Which future will we choose: this broken Brexit Britain or the European Union? If this whole Brexit saga was truly about sovereignty, the Scottish people cannot and will not be denied our sovereign right to that self-determination. No democrat and nobody in this House should stand in the way of that—even boris with a small b. The Tory denial of democracy is a position that cannot and will not hold. Scotland will have the right to choose its own future.

Now that the detail of this deal is finally in front of us, people hope that Brexit fictions are swiftly replaced with Brexit facts. Judging by the Prime Minister’s performance today, his Government are still drowning in delusion or simply just putting on an act, but for those of us who have lived in the real world these past four years, it is long past time that reality finally bursts the Brexit bubble. In recent days we have heard wild celebrations and claims from leading Brexit cheerleaders that this is the largest free trade deal in history. I am sorry to inform them that it is not. The biggest and best free trading bloc in the world is the one that this Tory Government are dragging Scotland out of. It is made up of 27 nations and 500 million citizens. It is called the European Union.

In the middle of a pandemic and economic recession, Scotland has been removed from a market worth £16 billion in exports to Scottish companies and a market which, by population, is seven times the size of the United Kingdom. Leaving the European single market and customs union would be damaging at any time, but in the middle of the current crisis, Prime Minister, it is unforgivable. It is an act of economic vandalism, pure and simple.

As usual with the Tories, it is people who will pay the price. Initial Scottish Government modelling estimates that the deal could cut Scotland’s GDP by around 6.1%—that is £9 billion in 2016 cash terms by 2030. That will leave people in Scotland—the same people who have always opposed Brexit—£1,600 poorer. That is the cost of the Prime Minister’s Brexit.

[Dr Liam Fox (North Somerset) (Con)]

I am extremely grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for giving way. Perhaps he could tell us what estimate he has made of the cost to the Scottish economy of losing access to the UK single market through independence.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Liam Fox (North Somerset) (Con)]

Those of us who voted and campaigned to leave the European Union did so for a number of reasons. I was always a constitutional leaver. For me, the test of this Bill is: does it return the sovereignty that we sought? The answer is yes. Why? Because there is no subjugation to EU law or EU jurisprudence, no direct effect and no direct application. Retention of any of those would have been incompatible with a sovereign state. In fact, from our accession to the European Community through various EU treaties, all those elements were incompatible with the concept that those who live under the law should be able to determine those who make the law. That is what we have regained in this process.

The second test for me is: does this allow us to have a genuinely independent trade policy? Let us remember that we were told that it would take more than 10 years to reach a free trade agreement with the European Union and that it would be impossible to roll over all the EU agreements that we had. I stood at the Dispatch Box and listened to the Opposition incessantly telling us that. I congratulate Ministers and officials under Crawford Falconer at the Department for International Trade for all they have achieved, and I especially congratulate David Frost on landing one of the world’s biggest, if not the biggest, trade agreements in 11 months—a world record—which, again, we were told was not possible.

When we voted to leave the European Union, we also voted to leave the single market, although for some of us the single market is also the single anti-market, with many of the restrictions and protectionisms that it encompasses. If we want to access the single market, there has to be a price to be paid. If we want to diverge from the rules of the single market, there has to be a price to be paid. Does this agreement provide effective mechanisms for us to do those things? My answer, again, is yes.

[Mr David Davis (Haltemprice and Howden) (Con)]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the mechanisms that this treaty has found are every bit as good as the mechanisms in the Canada treaty, for example, and all other treaties that reflect these tensions in free trade agreements?

[Dr Fox]

My right hon. Friend is absolutely right, and not only are they effective mechanisms, but they keep us in line with the best international practice that exists, which of course enables us to move forward with greater predictability. On that point, there are a number of specific elements to welcome. The first is the acceptance of the concept—

[Jonathan Edwards]

Will the right hon. Member give way?

[Dr Fox]

I will not, I am afraid.

The first element is the concept of non-regression as a means of ensuring minimum standards. We accept that the maintenance of those high standards has fixed costs in international commerce, which is why we will always need to compete at the high end of the quality market globally in goods and services. As the Prime Minister rightly pointed out, we cannot ever become a bargain basement economy because the fixed costs we have are simply too high and, quite rightly, the British people would not allow us to abandon the standards we have. It means that we will have to move forward with the natural innovation and creativity of the British people expanding our export culture, because the bottom line is that without more exports and without more actual trade, any trade agreement is simply a piece of paper. It is upon the natural innovation of the British people that our prosperity will be built in the future.

The second element, to which my right hon. Friend the Member for Haltemprice and Howden (Mr Davis) alluded, is the fact that the concept in dispute resolution of international arbitration is done without the European Court of Justice, which brings us in line with international trends and practices. That takes us to the third element: the mechanism of determining divergence. If there is no ability to determine to diverge, we are not sovereign. If there were not a price to be paid for divergence, the EU would never have reached the agreement with us. What would have been unacceptable is the concept of dynamic alignment—automatically taking EU rules over which we had no control into our law—but what is acceptable is penalties for divergence, which are clearly set out. They are proportionate, and there is a requirement to show harm, rather than their simply being put into law. The most important element of all in this is that it is we who will weigh up the costs and benefits of any potential disalignment. It is our choice—that is one of the key elements that we have in the future.

Today opens up a new chapter in our politics. It is the choice of maintaining and strengthening an independent United Kingdom; or of the new ranks of the rejoiners, who would have us thrust back into European accession politics all over again, consuming all our political time and energy, which is a future that I believe the British public will reject. There are things that we still have to sort out—the future of Gibraltar is one of the important ones, as is seeing further details on services, including financial services—but this is a historic day in our democracy. We have delivered on the referendum and our election promises. If, for the Opposition, those are not reasons to be cheerful, they are at least reasons of which we should all be proud.

EU Withdrawal Agreement

Liam Fox Excerpts

Wednesday 9th December 2020 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

The right hon. Gentleman makes a very important point in drawing attention to a very important provision within the Northern Ireland protocol. The Government came under criticism from some for having provisions in the United Kingdom Internal Market Bill that upheld the sovereignty of this place in order to uphold the constitutional and territorial integrity of the UK. We no longer need to use those provisions, because of the agreement we have reached, but he is absolutely right. Of course, that provision remains, but I hope it will be the case that through patient and pragmatic discussion we can resolve any future issues in the way that we have resolved existing issues.

[Dr Liam Fox (North Somerset) (Con)]

I congratulate my right hon. Friend on reaching his agreement in principle, which shows that Britain is willing to make constructive compromises. As it now stands, is there any part of the withdrawal agreement that requires direct application of EU law to any part of the UK?

[Michael Gove]

Yes, it is the case that as a result of some of the provisions in the Northern Ireland protocol, there will be a requirement on some businesses in Northern Ireland specifically to follow the acquis. That is one of the ways in which we can ensure that there is no need for border infrastructure between Ireland and Northern Ireland.

Covid-19: Winter Plan

Liam Fox Excerpts

Monday 23rd November 2020 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

We have put in place an enormous amount of support for the hospitality sector and we understand the challenges posed by the measures that were brought in. The reason behind the restrictions on hospitality is that in order to protect people’s ability to go to work and, in particular, to protect education, it is important, sadly, to reduce the social contact on which the virus thrives. It is upsetting and frustrating, but it is true. It is clear from the evidence that later in the evening and late at night, social distancing declines, and we know that when social distancing declines, transmission increases.

[Dr Liam Fox (North Somerset) (Con)]

May I ask the Prime Minister, through the medium of my right hon. Friend, what progress has been made to achieve integration between the lockdown measures and testing at the country’s airports? Should we not follow the example of countries that have been successful at boosting business travel, helping the airline industry, helping inward and outward tourism, and getting airport workers back to full-time employment? What encouragement can he give to those at Bristol international airport in my constituency?

[Matt Hancock]

This is a really important issue. It is another example of how the increased testing capacity we have built can help improve lives. I have worked with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Transport, the airline industry and the airports, including the important regional airports, to try to get a better regime in place. My right hon. Friend the Member for North Somerset (Dr Fox) will not have to wait very long to get an answer.

Integrated Review

Liam Fox Excerpts

Thursday 19th November 2020 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I can certainly give the right hon. Gentleman that guarantee. Once again, he seems to be a veritable geyser of confected indignation. Of course we are going to guarantee the Black Watch. DFID will remain in East Kilbride, as long as he does not continue with his ambitions to break up the United Kingdom; and even if he does, DFID will remain in East Kilbride.

It is preposterous to listen to the Scottish National party talking about its desire to support defence spending when everybody knows fine well that it is thanks to UK-wide investments that we are able to deliver not just the Black Watch and DFID in East Kilbride, but a fantastic programme of shipbuilding in Govan and Rosyth. Under his plans, it is not just that there will be no deterrent; there will be no shipbuilding and there will be no Black Watch in the land of the SNP. That is the reality.

[Dr Liam Fox (North Somerset) (Con)]

May I say to my right hon. Friend that this statement smacks not only of promises kept, but of promises exceeded? I congratulate him on that. Does he accept that in an era when global cyber-attacks threaten our entire way of life—from the economy to the NHS—we need to spend more of our defence budget on assets that we cannot see as well as on updating our core assets, and that that needs to be clearly explained to the British people? In this war of the invisible enemy, does he believe that cyber doctrine has evolved to match our capabilities, especially on existential threats, in order to provide adequate deterrence?

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. Friend is an expert on what he is talking about. I can tell him that the National Cyber Force is working on doctrine that is currently evolving, but we will deploy our cyber capabilities, as I am sure he and the House would expect, in accordance with international law to protect the British public and our citizens.

Covid-19 Update

Liam Fox Excerpts

Monday 2nd November 2020 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I am grateful to the right hon. and learned Gentleman for supporting these measures, and I think he is right to do so, but I make absolutely no apology whatever for doing my level best—our level best as a Government—to avoid going back into a national lockdown, with all the damage that entails for people’s livelihoods, for people’s mental health and for jobs across this country. That was our intention, and it is absolutely true, as the House has learned today and has seen, that the virus has risen across much of northern Europe. That does not mean that it was wrong to go for a local approach, and it does not mean it was wrong to support NHS Test and Trace, because both of those approaches—both of those means—have done a fantastic job, in their way, of bringing the virus under control and reducing the R. It is lower than it would have been without those heroic local efforts, and it is lower than it would have been without NHS Test and Trace. In my view, the right hon. and learned. Gentleman should stop continually knocking NHS Test and Trace, because we need people to self-isolate. I will accept many criticisms, but the one thing I do think we need to get right is that we need to see people self-isolating to a greater extent than they currently are. It would be good if people across this House could therefore back and support NHS Test and Trace, because it is absolutely vital.

Turning to some of the points that the right hon. and learned Gentleman made, yes it is absolutely true that we are going to protect schools particularly, and we are massively expanding testing for schools. Earlier in my remarks, I mentioned what mass testing can do for particular institutions: schools, hospitals, universities and others. He asked about help for the economy, for businesses and for the self-employed. He perhaps did not hear what I said: we are massively increasing help for the self-employed, and will continue to support businesses and livelihoods across this country. I once again thank my right hon. Friend the Chancellor for the creativity he brings to these problems.

The right hon. and learned Gentleman asked when these measures would end. As I have already told the House, they will end on 2 December. The House has the right to decide, and will vote on whatever measures it chooses to bring in, but we will then go back to the tiered system based on the data as it presents itself. He asked the people of this country to stand together against the coronavirus, and I could not agree with him more. All I respectfully say to him is that I think the people of this country would also like to see the politicians of this country standing together a little bit more coherently in the face of this virus.

[Dr Liam Fox (North Somerset) (Con)]

The impact of the pandemic goes well beyond covid patients to all parts of the NHS, the economy, and our personal and social wellbeing. Does my right hon. Friend agree that for this House to be able to determine that decisions across all parts of Government have been taken on the best available evidence, a new parliamentary Committee—perhaps time limited, or made up of Privy Counsellors—should be established to reassure the British public that the cure is not worse than the disease?

[The Prime Minister]

I thank my right hon. Friend for the very interesting suggestion that he makes. I must tell him that throughout the pandemic, individual departmental Select Committees, as well as the Liaison Committee, have shown that they are more than capable of scrutinising these issues. However, I leave it up to the House to decide what arrangements it chooses to make.

Covid-19 Update

Liam Fox Excerpts

Tuesday 23rd June 2020 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I will of course study the Bill to which the hon. Gentleman alludes. [Interruption.] I will cause it to be studied. He knows very well that this country has given unprecedented and unequalled support to workers and to businesses. I think that 1 million companies have taken advantage of the job retention scheme, and 2.6 million self-employed people. There is nothing like it around the world. We should be very proud of what the UK has done, and we will continue to ensure that no one is penalised for doing the right thing to beat this virus.

[Dr Liam Fox (North Somerset) (Con)]

As my right hon. Friend has said, the primary aim of policy was to stop the NHS being swamped, and that was met, which is a great achievement. But will he take this opportunity to restate that in the absence of a vaccine or a cure, the virus will stay in circulation? What people refer to as a second wave is in fact a continuation of the first wave—it has not gone away. We can expect flare-ups, as we have seen in Germany. While the measures today are welcome—incidentally, they give a whole new meaning to the phrase “safe drinking”—their observation will be vital if we are to avoid a widespread second lockdown, which would be an economic and social disaster for the country.

[The Prime Minister]

That is absolutely right. There have been two important changes in our arsenal in the past six weeks or so. The first has obviously been NHS test and trace, which is getting better the whole time, and is invaluable in fighting the disease. The second is the treatments. Dexamethasone, which was tested in this country, really does make a big difference to the mortality of the disease, and I have no doubt that other progress will be made. He is right to be reserved about the possibilities of getting a full vaccine; that is going to be very difficult. But in the meantime, we will have to remain extremely vigilant and extremely cautious.

Future Relationship with the EU: Negotiations

Liam Fox Excerpts

Tuesday 19th May 2020 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

As we leave the European Union, we have a saving in the amount of money that we currently remit to the EU. That money can be deployed here in the UK, on our NHS and to support the vulnerable.

[Dr Liam Fox (North Somerset) (Con)]

My right hon. Friend will be aware that global trade was contracting before the covid crisis struck. Would it not be a major boost to confidence in the global trading system for the EU and the United Kingdom to reach a trading agreement in the time available, and is there not an increased responsibility on us to do so, given the covid crisis?

[Michael Gove]

My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. There is a very powerful incentive for the European Union to put the interests of its members and citizens ahead of ideology. The EU—as, I would hope, a body that takes its internationalist credentials seriously—would recognise that it would be a boost not just to its own economy and our economy, but to the world economy and the global trading system if we were to conclude a deal.

European Union (Withdrawal Agreement) Bill

Liam Fox Excerpts

2nd reading & 2nd reading: House of Commons & Money resolution: House of Commons & Programme motion: House of Commons & Ways and Means resolution: House of Commons & Money resolution & Programme motion & Ways and Means resolution
Friday 20th December 2019 Commons Chamber

[Dr Liam Fox (North Somerset) (Con)]

This debate is the beginning of a promise fulfilled—not simply a promise fulfilled by my party, although it is certainly that, but a promise fulfilled by this Parliament to the people of this country. When we embarked on the Brexit process we—Parliament—offered a decision to the British people. We said that we could not or would not make a decision about our future relationship with the European Union, but that the people of this country would take that decision and Parliament would respect it.

We have had three years of betrayal of that pact with the British people in the previous Parliament, when Members simply would not honour the manifesto commitments on which 80% of them had been elected. Those who wilfully signed up to a manifesto saying that they would honour the referendum result, but then came to the House and betrayed that, did not enjoy their first democratic contact with voters. I am proud that many of my new hon. Friends are taking the place of those who did not honour that.

This is also an historic opportunity for you, Mr Speaker, to repair some of the damage done to the reputation of the Chair of this House by some of your predecessor’s decisions. We wish you well in that great task.

My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister is absolutely right not to enter into constant extensions to the implementation period with the European Union. Nothing would give the EU less incentive to come to a final agreement with the UK than embarking on such a process. We have had the torture of the last few years in which there were endless increases in the timeframe, and we need not go through that again.

[Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) (Con)]

Given that Australia negotiated trade deals with Japan, South Korea and China, all within 18 months, and that we have had 47 years of integration, does my right hon. Friend agree that there is no reason why we cannot negotiate a good trade deal with the EU by the end of next year, as long as there is good will on its side?

[Dr Fox]

My hon. Friend puts his finger on the most important point. We will face not a technical issue, but a political issue. Indeed, the political declaration sets out that we will have no tariffs, no fees and no quotas in the economic relationship. That is what normally takes up the time in trading agreements, so it is entirely possible that this agreement can be done. The debate we will embark on is not about tariffs, fees and quotas, but regulatory alignment. That will be the central debate in our negotiations with the European Union.

We need to see the issue in a wider global context. At the World Trade Organisation meeting in Buenos Aires, it became clear that there are two ways forward in the global trading system. One is the concept of harmonisation —a highly legalistic regulatory means of doing business, which says, “This is the way we do it today, so this is the way we will always do it in the future.” Against that, there is the wider concept of outcome-based equivalence, which says, “Yes, we know what standards we need to meet, but we want to find our own ways, our own rules and our own efficiencies in achieving them.” The EU is now in a real minority, as it is virtually only the EU that takes the route of harmonisation.

There are those in the forthcoming negotiations who will say that, to have access to the single market, Britain must accept dynamic alignment—in other words, we must automatically change our rules in line with the EU. The Prime Minister will have 100% support from the Conservative party if he rules out any concept of dynamic alignment, which would leave Britain in a worse place in terms of taking back control than we are in as a member of the European Union.

The debate we are embarking on is about a clear choice. At no point in the European debate was there the option of maintaining the status quo: we either had to embark on our own course, controlling our own borders, our funds and our future; or we remained tied to an economic and political model of the European Union that is utterly dependent on ever-closer union. I have never believed that ever-closer union is in Britain’s national interests, and if the bus has the wrong destination on the front, the best thing to do is to get off, which was what the British people decided to do.

[Mr Iain Duncan Smith (Chingford and Woodford Green) (Con)]

I agree with my right hon. Friend. Does he recall that the Leader of the Opposition spent his time sneering at the standards in the United States—a democratic and advanced economy? However, if we look at its standards on campylobacter infection and salmonella, it has fewer deaths per capita than the UK or the European Union. It gets there by different methods, and it gets there better than we do, so we should stop sneering.

[Dr Fox]

I hope that my right hon. Friend will forgive me if I do not take too much notice of the anti-wealth, anti-American, anti-trade, tired old leftie rhetoric we get from the soon-to-be-forgotten Leader of the Opposition.

The debate before us is clear. The Prime Minister is leading Britain in a direction that will produce a confident, outward-looking country. For many of us, we were leaving the European Union not because it was foreign, but because, in an era of globalisation, it was not foreign enough—it spent too much time gazing at its own navel and worrying about political integration. We are embarked on an historic and correct course for our nation.

I return to where I began: the question of trust. In the spirit of the season, let me say that I hope that even Hugh Grant will watch our seasonal offering this year—“Democracy Actually”.

EU Council

Liam Fox Excerpts

Wednesday 29th June 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

It was without a shadow of a doubt very good for the European Council as well.

[Dr Liam Fox (North Somerset) (Con)]

On that subject, did my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister reiterate to the European Council that the United Kingdom does not have a federal structure? We did not vote in the referendum as England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, or even London, but as British citizens, each with an equal voice and equal weight. All future decisions must be taken by the United Kingdom Government and no one else.

Such was the importance of free movement of people in the referendum, does the Prime Minister also accept that any future deal with our European partners that includes free movement would be regarded as a betrayal by the millions who voted to leave?

[The Prime Minister]

I did emphasise that it was a UK decision, but also that the UK will want to listen carefully to all the constituent nations and to the views of their Ministers and their Parliaments in setting out the negotiation that we want to carry on. As for the free movement of people, that will be for the next Prime Minister, Government and Parliament to decide on. I am in no doubt, however, that it is the difficult issue. Frankly, it is a difficult issue when inside the EU and with all the negotiating ability to try to change things. In many ways it will be even more difficult from outside, if we want full access to the single market, to secure changes. Nevertheless, that is the challenge.

I explained very clearly to the meeting that that was my reading of the referendum result and that it was a coming together of concern about free movement of people and migration combined with a sense of control and sovereignty over that. I said that I was very sad at the result. The economic case for staying in was very strong, but if we want to make this relationship work, whether out or in, we have to listen to people and try to find a way through this.

Points of Order

Liam Fox Excerpts

Monday 29th February 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for that confirmation. The short answer to the hon. Lady—this is for the benefit of the House—is that answers to Members’ questions should be direct, substantive and candid. I have sympathy with the view, which she has expressed, that it is not helpful if Government Departments simply refer right hon. and hon. Members in written answers to websites on which the information requested may be located but cannot easily be found. The much more straightforward process, which I think the public would expect, would be to provide an answer to the question. It is not really all that complicated.

That said, I have to emphasise, of course, that the content of written answers, and indeed of ministerial statements in the House, has to be a matter for the judgment of individual Ministers; it is not for the Chair to determine. However, I am offering an overall sentiment, which I think would be shared across the House. As to how the hon. Lady can put the matter straight, I suggest that, by dint of this point of order, she has begun to do so.

[Dr Liam Fox (North Somerset) (Con)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. My point of order relates not to the ministerial code but to the conduct of the House of Commons. When Ministers come to the House of Commons, they are required to give full and informed answers to the questions we ask as Members of Parliament. Having given the matter some thought, can you give us some guidance on how we will know whether Ministers have been fully informed, if we know that there is a process of purposely withholding information from those who may be required to give answers to the House of Commons? How can we then carry out our duty of scrutiny properly?

[Mr Speaker]

I fear that it would be hazardous for me to tread on the terrain of what might be called the “known unknowns” or even the “unknown unknowns”. That would be difficult. The question, though a very good and legitimate one, is, I fear, at this stage hypothetical, but it is a problematic matter. The best I can say to the right hon. Gentleman is that the Chair, of course, will keenly attend to events and to the process of question and answer, and we will have to look at this matter as and when it arises, on a case by case basis. I will not be looking at it proactively, but if Members raise the matter with the Chair, the Chair will do his best to respond.