Points of Order

John Bercow Excerpts

Monday 29th February 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Bernard Jenkin (Harwich and North Essex) (Con)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. During the exchanges that we have just had, it was noted that the Minister did not refer to the question and answer brief that has been circulated by the Cabinet Office to civil servants, which carries some of the wider interpretation of the letter. I wonder how I can draw the House’s attention to the fact that we will be publishing it on the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee website later today or tomorrow.

[Mr Speaker]

As I think the hon. Gentleman knows—I say this in response to his spurious point of order—he has achieved his objective. He should consider the matter so advertised.

[Mrs Anne Main (St Albans) (Con)]

Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker.

[Mr Speaker]

I am not sure there is a “further” to that point of order, but I will hear it first and then come to a view about it.

[Mrs Main]

I read out the self-same question and answer, which uses the words “may have a bearing”. At what point may we have an explanation of what “may have a bearing” means? Who will arbitrate on that?

[Mr Speaker]

That is a matter for the Government. Legendarily, the Minister for the Cabinet Office is always keen to address the House—indeed, in the past he has likened himself to Disraeli, who had a notable enthusiasm for addressing the House. If he wishes to respond to the hon. Lady with that legendary succinctness for which he is renowned, we are happy to hear from him, but he is not under any obligation to do so.

[The Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General (Matthew Hancock)]

Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. I think I answered that point. The question is how we make sure that the guidance means that civil servants follow the Government position, including on the in/out question, which is the only question on which Ministers can move from the Government position. So it is a question of whether something is an in/out question or is normal EU business. I think I set that out earlier; I might have said the same.

[Mrs Main]

indicated dissent.

[Mr Speaker]

We are extremely grateful to the Minister. I am not sure, from the head movements of the hon. Member for St Albans (Mrs Main), that he has satisfied her, but I am not sure any Minister would have been able to do so. None the less, the Minister has graciously come to the Dispatch Box.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Mr Speaker]

I will come back to Members who are expectant—[Interruption.] Well, expectant of the opportunity to raise points of order, I should perhaps say. But perhaps I may be permitted to take other points of order first. We will come to those illustrious denizens ere long.

[Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. This morning the Secretary of State for Wales—I have made his office aware of my intention to raise this point of order—announced major changes to the timetable and content of the proposed Wales Bill; he has decided to jackknife the Bill and skid it to an undignified halt. Instead of coming to the House to inform right hon. and hon. Members and answer their questions about how he will proceed, he choose to make that significant announcement in front of a gathering of journalists in Cardiff, even suggesting on Twitter that hon. Members can wait until Thursday to question him. Did he give you any indication that he would be announcing this major change of policy today, Mr Speaker, and has he indicated that he will be making an oral statement to the House, as per paragraph 9.1 of the ministerial code?

[Mr Speaker]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her point of order. The answer is that I have had no advance notice of this matter. It would be only fair for me, from the Chair, to say at this stage that whether it amounts to what she has described as a major change of policy or is merely a temporary pause or tactical judgment, I do not know. Suffice it to say that if there is a change of policy or a significant change in Government intentions for a notable period, the House would expect properly to be informed of that, and there are means by which Ministers can inform the House: either through the device of an answer to a written question or by a written ministerial statement. To my knowledge, neither has thus far been forthcoming. The hon. Lady’s point of order and my response to it will shortly be heard by the Wales Office, and I hope that proper account will be taken of it. If the hon. Lady needs to return to the point, doubtless she will do so.

[Kirsten Oswald (East Renfrewshire) (SNP)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek your assistance in relation to a matter that is of some concern to me. In December I asked, by means of a written question, when the Chancellor of the Exchequer had last met the Financial Conduct Authority to discuss certain matters. The response advised me that Treasury Ministers meet a wide variety of organisations and referred me to the Treasury’s transparency reports online, stating that that is where details of such meetings are published. The reports detailed no bilateral meetings between the Treasury and the FCA over a two-year period.

I therefore challenged the Economic Secretary to the Treasury—she is aware that I am raising this matter today—on that point during a Back-Bench business debate on 12 January. She did not address the matter in her response, so I raised it with her again in a Back-Bench business debate on 1 February. To my great surprise, the hon. Lady stated:

“Contrary to what the hon. Member for East Renfrewshire seems to think,”—[Official Report, 1 February 2016; Vol. 605, c. 748.]

she had met the acting chief executive of the FCA, and that she regretted that I had formed a different opinion.

Of course, my opinion was formed on the basis of a written answer, the Treasury’s own transparency reports and exchanges with the Minister in this Chamber, all of which I should have been entitled to rely upon. It is worth noting that a similar issue has arisen in relation to another question, with the Under-Secretary of State for Disabled People referring me to a non-existent or impossible to locate piece of information on the Department for Work and Pensions website.

The record therefore suggests that I have misunderstood or am mistaken, but neither is true. I would be very much obliged for your advice, Mr Speaker, on how to put the record straight on this matter. Finally, I would be most grateful if you could advise me on how best to stop Ministers referring Members to websites that do not contain relevant information.

[Mr Speaker]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her point of order, the thrust of which she was kind enough to give me advance notice. I think that I am right in saying that she also gave notice to the Minister concerned.

[Kirsten Oswald]

indicated assent.

[Mr Speaker]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for that confirmation. The short answer to the hon. Lady—this is for the benefit of the House—is that answers to Members’ questions should be direct, substantive and candid. I have sympathy with the view, which she has expressed, that it is not helpful if Government Departments simply refer right hon. and hon. Members in written answers to websites on which the information requested may be located but cannot easily be found. The much more straightforward process, which I think the public would expect, would be to provide an answer to the question. It is not really all that complicated.

That said, I have to emphasise, of course, that the content of written answers, and indeed of ministerial statements in the House, has to be a matter for the judgment of individual Ministers; it is not for the Chair to determine. However, I am offering an overall sentiment, which I think would be shared across the House. As to how the hon. Lady can put the matter straight, I suggest that, by dint of this point of order, she has begun to do so.

[Dr Liam Fox (North Somerset) (Con)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. My point of order relates not to the ministerial code but to the conduct of the House of Commons. When Ministers come to the House of Commons, they are required to give full and informed answers to the questions we ask as Members of Parliament. Having given the matter some thought, can you give us some guidance on how we will know whether Ministers have been fully informed, if we know that there is a process of purposely withholding information from those who may be required to give answers to the House of Commons? How can we then carry out our duty of scrutiny properly?

[Mr Speaker]

I fear that it would be hazardous for me to tread on the terrain of what might be called the “known unknowns” or even the “unknown unknowns”. That would be difficult. The question, though a very good and legitimate one, is, I fear, at this stage hypothetical, but it is a problematic matter. The best I can say to the right hon. Gentleman is that the Chair, of course, will keenly attend to events and to the process of question and answer, and we will have to look at this matter as and when it arises, on a case by case basis. I will not be looking at it proactively, but if Members raise the matter with the Chair, the Chair will do his best to respond.

[Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I have already expressed my admiration for my right hon. Friend the Minister for the Cabinet Office, who is on the Front Bench. I wonder whether there is any mechanism to reward someone who, first, is thrown into the lion’s den and, secondly, has to defend the indefensible.

[Mr Speaker]

I think I will treat that as what it is: not a point of order, but an inventive rhetorical question. At any rate, the hon. Gentleman seems justly satisfied, so I think we will, for now, leave it there. We are deeply grateful to the Minister for coming into the Chamber and responding to our inquiries.

If there are no further points of order, and the appetite has been satisfied, at any rate for today, we now come to the motion on the draft European Union Referendum (Date of Referendum etc.) Regulations 2016. Just before I ask the Minister—my illustrious neighbour, the Member for Aylesbury—to move the motion, I should inform the House that I have now considered the instrument, and I have decided not to certify it under Standing Order No. 83P.