Levelling Up, Housing and Communities

Liam Fox Excerpts

Monday 20th May 2024 Written Corrections

The following extract is from the Adjournment debate on Leaseholders and Freeholders on 15 May 2024.

[Sir Liam Fox]

The issue of rent charges also applies to freeholders; it is not just leaseholders who are the victims. An amendment to the Rentcharges Act 1977 would deal with the problem once and for all, so I encourage my hon. Friend to look at amendments to that Act when we bring forward legislation on this subject. If the Government do not want to bring forward such an amendment to the 1977 Act, I would be more than happy to table one.

[Lee Rowley]

My right hon. Friend is absolutely right: there are impacts on both freeholders and leaseholders. Different types of property and tenure are impacted in different ways. Elements of the rent charges regime will be extinguished by the 1977 Act, which he rightly referenced, in 2033; that has been in law since before I was born.

[Official Report, 15 May 2024; Vol. 750, c. 400.]

Written correction submitted by the Minister for Housing, Planning and Building Safety, the hon. Member for North East Derbyshire (Lee Rowley):

Leaseholders and Freeholders

Liam Fox Excerpts

Wednesday 15th May 2024 Commons Chamber

[Sir Liam Fox (North Somerset) (Con)]

I begin by thanking my constituents in Portishead, whose dogged determination not to be treated as supine cash cows has led to this debate, which I am proud to have secured on their behalf. The residents at Port Marine, a beautiful development in Portishead that transformed derelict industrial land into an extremely desirable place to live, bought their properties—some leasehold and some freehold —with an external property management company managing some communal parts. My hon. Friend the Minister will recognise in that tale a situation mirrored up and down the country, with uncertainty about bills and charges at one end of the spectrum and the inability to sell properties that are effectively valued at nothing at the other.

There are two key issues: the variable service charge and the fixed rent charge. I am grateful to Sebastian O’Kelly of the Leasehold Knowledge Partnership, who described the situation thus:

“It is an arrangement cooked up by developers and councils: it means developers have a management company and income stream that they can sell on to management companies such as FirstPort, and the council saves money by not adopting these open spaces. Meanwhile, the often younger buyers of these properties end up paying council tax and the management charges, while older locals often living in more valuable houses pay to the council only.”

The situation is increasingly being described as what it is—namely, a fleecehold.

Residents initially wrote to me about the increase in the variable service charge to levels that they believed were unreasonable. Attempts to gain transparency on the costs go back several years, including a face-to-face meeting between FirstPort and Portishead residents in 2019. The issue affects around 1,000 of my constituents, both freeholders and leaseholders. In effect, residents have complained that the amount they are paying does not match the amount of land being managed by FirstPort or the level of work it undertakes on the Port Marine estate. It has also been difficult to get transparency from FirstPort when residents have requested a breakdown of its costs for managing their properties and land.

On 3 November 2023 I joined constituents representing the Portishead management charge action group, along with two representatives of North Somerset Council and two representatives of FirstPort, for a walk around the Port Marine estate to look at the areas managed by FirstPort and by North Somerset Council respectively. We found that very small areas of the estate are managed by FirstPort, for which it charges at least £440 per annum. That charge seems particularly high and produces around £220,000 of income per year for FirstPort. Ideally, residents would like to see the land managed by North Somerset Council, which looks after large parts of the estate already. Naturally, the council would like to receive a substantial sum from FirstPort to transfer those duties but, with no agreement forthcoming, it is easy to see why my constituents find themselves in something of a trap.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I commend the right hon. Gentleman for rightly bringing this issue to the attention of the House. Does he agree that, although the Leasehold Advisory Service gives free advice for England and Wales—as it should—the advice is not granted in all situations, so when his constituents sought advice, in many cases they would be unsure about where they stood without costly legal advice, and that the Government and the Minister must provide much more clarity across the board?

[Sir Liam Fox]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. I will go on to set out just how horrendous some of those charges are and how it can be very difficult for my constituents to get legal redress. That is no doubt a situation that my hon. Friend the Minister has heard on a number of occasions.

We all understand that communal land must be managed for the benefit of all. No one disputes that, but it needs to be done in a way that is fair and equitable, predictable and transparent. The current position is none of those things.

[Justin Madders (Ellesmere Port and Neston) (Lab)]

The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right that many of these arrangements were never made clear to people when they purchased their properties, and too often developers have taken a shortcut to create a secondary income stream, when actually they should be paying a lump sum to the local authority to take over those responsibilities. It is a double whammy for those who are on the end of it, is it not?

[Sir Liam Fox]

I swear there was no collusion here, Madam Deputy Speaker, but the hon. Gentleman takes me very neatly on to an even more horrendous example than the one I have already set out: fixed rent charges.

First, let me set out to the House the history by which property companies can fleece freeholders using this mechanism. Across the country as a whole rent charges are rare, but they do exist in parts of England, such as around Bath, Bristol and Manchester. A real problem can arise when a buyer or their conveyancing solicitor fails to spot their presence in the title deeds. Why? Because rent charges, which were introduced mainly in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, were put in place when landowners wanted to sell land at a reduced cost to a developer. They would sell the land on a freehold basis, but retain a legal interest in the land and charge an annual fee, or rent charge, which is in place for ever.

Historically, the rent charge was typically between £2 and £10, which was quite a lot in those days, but has been regarded as nominal in recent years. While many rent charges have fallen dormant, others have been bought up by property companies, which are now ruthlessly enforcing payment. The rent owner is entitled to recover any sums due, but does not have to send a reminder to the freeholder and, as I understand it, is legally entitled to impose a penalty after 40 days—when the account inevitably falls into arrears—usually by taking out a statutory lease on the home as security. That would then make the property almost impossible to sell unless the freeholder pays thousands to redeem the lease. That is outrageous.

Let me outline the issue in respect of Portishead. In 2011, solicitors acting on behalf of Crest Nicholson, the original landowner of the development, wrote to FirstPort—then known as Consort—advising it that the fixed rent charge should be reduced to £1. Although FirstPort shared that information with some residents and reduced the charge accordingly, it did not do that for all residents and continued to invoice some to the tune of between £100 and £150 per annum. Those residents were later refunded. After trying to renege on that agreement at the end of 2022, FirstPort informed residents in December 2023 that it again intended to start charging £100 to £150 per year for the fixed rent charge.

FirstPort has argued that, because no deed of variation was entered into to confirm the reduction, meaning that the agreement to reduce the fixed rent charge was not legally binding, it can effectively do what it likes. Needless to say, residents who were not advised in 2011 that they needed to enter into a deed of variation, or log the change with the Land Registry, are extremely unhappy. Recently, under pressure from residents, Crest Nicholson and myself, FirstPort agreed to keep the fixed rent charge to £1 per annum, provided that residents entered into a deed of variation.

It is instructive to see what Crest Nicholson has made of this debacle. On 9 February, it told me:

“Crest’s view is that the decision being taken by FirstPort to unilaterally reimpose the fixed rent charge of the properties at Port Marine is not only unfair but the underlying mechanism within the transfer is potentially open to challenge in the courts. This is because the annual charges they are proposing to claim (i.e. between £100 and £150) are not what a court would consider to be nominal amounts, a requirement for a fixed rent charge to be lawful under the Rentcharges Act 1977.”

Interestingly, Crest also told me:

“Many of the residents wrongly believe this money is being paid in exchange for FirstPort performing a service. FirstPort is already able to recover its costs for enforcing covenants from the variable element of the rent charge so FirstPort’s claim that this is its purpose is, at best questionable.”

Following a meeting that we had at the end of March, Crest Nicholson made it clear that it was no longer handing out contracts to FirstPort.

Let me turn to the question of the deed of variation. FirstPort initially quoted residents £300 plus VAT to enter into the deed of variation, offering that price as a discounted rate. In its letter to me on 7 March 2024, it stated that its

“legal fees for entering into any type of Deed of Variation would usually be £500 +VAT.”

In other words, this was a bargain that my constituents should jump at in order not be forced to pay £150 a year. They could pay FirstPort £500 as a one-off payment to prevent that from happening in the future. I think many of us would regard that as extortion. This whole saga has caused constituents a great deal of stress. Despite that, they have indicated that the £150 cost is tolerable—meaning they are willing, but not happy, to enter into the deed of variation and be done with the whole saga. FirstPort has set a deadline of 30 June 2024 for residents to enter into the deed of variation.

So, we have a variable service charge that can be raised and enforced without any clear and transparent links with the services being undertaken. Then, we have the truly horrendous situation in which rent charges, which have no relation whatsoever to any service being provided, can effectively be raised and applied through the threat of making properties unsellable, and the only means of escape is for residents to enter into deeds of variation at a price determined by—guess who—FirstPort. Let me be clear: I regard this as daylight robbery and a historical anomaly that has no place in our modern society. I am sure that FirstPort will not be the only property company up and down our country acting in this way. As the Minister’s Department introduces regulations following the passage of the Levelling-up and Regeneration Act 2023, and as it looks at leasehold reform, I ask my hon. Friend to see how quickly we can redress these wholly unacceptable positions and consign them to the dustbin of history, which is where they belong.

[The Minister for Housing, Planning and Building Safety (Lee Rowley)]

It is a great pleasure to respond in this short debate, and to talk about an issue of huge importance to so many colleagues around the House. Over the past few months, as we have talked about leasehold, more and more colleagues have come up to me to highlight the iniquities, problems and challenges that they see in their constituency. I am grateful to my right hon. Friend the Member for North Somerset (Sir Liam Fox) for highlighting the issues that he has experienced, and I am very sorry to hear about Port Marine and the challenges that its residents face. I obviously cannot comment too much on individual cases, but it is absolutely vital that we hear individual examples. I have heard examples from around the country of particularly egregious extortion, and problems with the framework of leasehold. That is one of the reasons why we are bringing forward leasehold reform—because we recognise that there needs to be change.

Leasehold can work in some places, and some elements of it can be successful, but as my right hon. Friend has outlined, the problem is that there is too much bad practice in the sector. There are too many distortions within that tenure, too many inefficiencies that can be exploited, and frankly too many rent-seekers in the sector who are trying to exploit those distortions and inefficiencies. I know that Opposition colleagues also feel strongly about this issue, but we Conservatives are nothing if we do not seek to smash monopolies, stop rent-seeking, make markets more perfect and stand up for the little guy. Stories such as the one that my right hon. Friend recounted today highlight the reason why we are reforming leasehold. There is a way to go in making that market more perfect, but that is exactly what we are trying to do.

The Leasehold and Freehold Reform Bill will bring into law many reforms to better protect and empower leaseholders. Existing leaseholders will find it easier and cheaper to extend their lease or buy their freehold. Reforms to the cost regime for enfranchisement and right-to-manage claims will make them more accessible, enabling leaseholders to take control of their building and, therefore, their future.

[Sir Liam Fox]

The issue of rent charges also applies to freeholders; it is not just leaseholders who are the victims. An amendment to the Rentcharges Act 1977 would deal with the problem once and for all, so I encourage my hon. Friend to look at amendments to that Act when we bring forward legislation on this subject. If the Government do not want to bring forward such an amendment to the 1977 Act, I would be more than happy to table one.

Draft Combined Authorities (Finance) (Amendment) Regulations 2024

Liam Fox Excerpts

Monday 29th April 2024 General Committees

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities (Jacob Young)]

I beg to move,

That the Committee has considered the draft Combined Authorities (Finance) (Amendment) Regulations 2024.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Nokes. The draft regulations before us today will, if approved by Parliament, complete the legislative framework for the funding of new combined county authorities. In recent months, similar secondary legislation has been made to provide rules for the election and by-election of combined county authority Mayors, and for their overview, scrutiny and audit committees. Today’s statutory instrument is the last key building block in the architecture of legislation for combined county authorities as a category. The regulations will provide for Mayors of the new combined county authorities to set budgets for the costs of their functions, and raise a precept for these costs, subject to consideration and a vote by the combined county authority. They also provide for a mayoral fund.

As with preceding legislation, we are following the principle that provision for combined county authorities should be the same as that for combined authorities. The regulations do this by amending the Combined Authorities (Finance) Order 2017, to apply its measures to combined county authorities. The 2017 order provides for an effective process, aligned with the wider local government budgeting timetables, including robust arrangements for scrutiny and challenge of the Mayor’s spending proposals by the combined authority. The effect of that application to combined county authorities is essentially identical, and is as follows.

First, there is a requirement for combined county authority Mayors to submit by 1 February a draft budget to their combined county authority for consideration. Secondly, the combined county authority must recommend any amendments to the draft budget by 8 February, and the Mayor must consider these amendments and respond with a further proposal if they choose to do so. Ultimately, the constituent members of the combined county authority may impose amendments to the Mayor’s draft budget, if supported by a significant—usually two thirds—majority. In the absence of this majority, the Mayor’s proposals are deemed to be accepted by the combined county authority. The combined county authority must set a mayoral budget on the Mayor’s behalf, if the Mayor fails to submit a draft for consideration by 1 February.

The Mayor may fund mayoral functions through a precept. The standard local government finance regime applies so that precepts must be issued by 1 March. Mayoral costs are itemised separately on council tax bills. Where the Mayor exercises police and crime functions, those are also listed separately. To further aid transparency, the Mayor is required to maintain a fund in relation to the receipts and expenses of the Mayor’s functions, excluding police and crime commissioner functions, for which there is a separate police fund.

Before introducing the original 2017 order for combined authorities, the Government undertook informal consultation with officers of constituent councils of current and prospective combined authorities, including via a working group of senior finance officers. Our inquiries with finance officers of existing mayoral combined authorities during the development of these draft regulations found no operational difficulties with the existing set-up. The regulations therefore simply extend the application of the existing provision in line with the broader policy of parity between combined county authorities and combined authorities.

[Sir Liam Fox (North Somerset) (Con)]

This delegated legislation provides for a precept to be set. Can the Minister tell me what the mechanism is by which an upper limit for such a precept would be set, so that councils or Governments of a different colour would not necessarily be given a mechanism to fleece taxpayers?

[Jacob Young]

I will come back to my right hon. Friend on that point, but I would say that Conservative Mayors charge zero mayoral precept, whether that is Ben Houchen in the Tees Valley or Andy Street in the West Midlands. Contrast that with the Mayor of Greater Manchester, for example.

Levelling-up and Regeneration Bill

Liam Fox Excerpts

Consideration of Lords amendments
Tuesday 17th October 2023 Commons Chamber

[Rachel Maclean]

I thank my right hon. and learned Friend. I think Northampton North speaks for the whole House on this issue. With that, I will give way to my right hon. Friend the Member for North Somerset (Dr Fox).

[Dr Liam Fox (North Somerset) (Con)]

My hon. Friend says, very importantly, that we will be getting an update to the NPPF to reflect the changes made in the Bill. Can she give us an idea when we will get it? We were promised it before the summer and then we were promised it in September. When will the House and the country actually see the updated NPPF?

--- Later in debate ---

Despite promising to put power back in the hands of local people, the amendments show that the Bill in its entirety is nothing but a thinly veiled attempt by Westminster to roll back on the devolution settlement. The Bill adopts a top-down approach that cuts out the democratically elected Scottish Parliament and its Ministers, in favour of decisions made in Whitehall. In the last Budget, the Chancellor announced several direct funding programmes in Scotland through the Government’s levelling-up fund—projects that totalled £172 million in spending. Those projects violated the devolution settlement, spending in areas that are explicitly devolved and undermining money that should have come to Scotland in the form of Barnett consequentials. It is not enough for the UK Government to seek support from the Scottish Government in the implementation of projects selected by Whitehall; the Scottish Government must be consulted at all stages, as was the case with EU funding. If the UK Government are serious about levelling up, they must respect devolution.

[Dr Fox]

rose—

[Ms Qaisar]

No, I will not take an intervention. If the right hon. Gentleman wants to speak, I am sure that he can put in a card.

It is not surprising, but incredibly concerning, that the Tories are attempting to water down issues that would quite literally improve the quality of people’s lives. The Lords amendments could strengthen the Bill, but, at the end of the day, the Levelling-up and Regeneration Bill was underwhelming in its inception: it will not level up the areas that need it the most; it will not work towards eradicating child poverty; and it will not increase the Government’s accountability. However, it will be another unsurprising Tory policy that hands more power to this untrustworthy Government and fails to deliver an ounce of what they promised. The reality for Scotland is that it is only through having the full powers of independence that we will truly unlock our ability to decide what is best for our diverse communities.

--- Later in debate ---

I look forward to being a hard-working Member of this House and a great representative for Somerton and Frome. To all the people of Somerset: Sumorste ealle.

[Dr Fox]

It is an absolute pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Somerton and Frome (Sarah Dyke). We have all been through either the thrill or the ordeal of our maiden speech, and many of us will look back with different emotions—pride, affection or regret. Hers was certainly one to be proud of. I am sure that the whole House will recognise that we have in her a Member of great calibre when it comes to speaking in the House. She paid a very generous tribute to her immediate predecessor, which I am sure many of us would echo. She spoke in staunch defence of the cider industry, which is perhaps one area in which I can genuinely offer my personal help for the profitability that she seeks. She set out a wide range of rural matters that are extremely important to those of us who represent different parts of Somerset.

The hon. Lady, in placing herself in context with a range of well-known predecessors from the part of the country that she represents, who were accomplished in different walks of life, demonstrated a lack of self-absorption that she will find somewhat rare in the House of Commons. I hope that she retains the refreshing self-effacing attitude that she brought to the House today. In the light of her top-to-bottom description of her constituency, if she were ever to leave this House, voluntarily or involuntarily, she is certainly likely to get a place on the Somerset tourist board.

I thank all those who brought the Bill this far. During her speech, the Minister referred to local plans, which are extremely important for my constituency. She said that it is not just the assessed housing need that matters but how much of that need can be accommodated in any one area. That matters hugely to a number of us. In North Somerset, for example, 40% of land is green belt, 30% is floodplain and 12% is in an area of outstanding natural beauty. One reason we are so delighted that the Government are abolishing the national housing targets is that they cannot be applied equally to areas with a lot of land that can be built on and areas where there are natural constraints. Such constraints are imposed by Government, who say, “You cannot build on green belt and you cannot build on floodplain.” It makes a lot of sense to hand the power back to local areas so that they can make decisions for themselves.

The removal of the five-year land bank is also an important increase in freedom for local authorities. I am delighted that, throughout the passage of the Bill, including in the other place, the Government put the protection of the green belt at the centre of what they were doing to stop urban sprawl—which, of course, we face in North Somerset as we are so close to Bristol—to protect our environment, as has been mentioned in relation to a number of issues, and to stop inappropriate development. That is likely to become an important election issue given that the Labour party has said that it will build on the green belt, and the Liberal Democrats have said that they will reintroduce national house building target numbers if they are able to do so.

I echo what a number of my colleagues said about encouraging nature recovery strategies in the amendments, as well as about banking hubs, which have been raised on a number of occasions. It is important in rural areas and small towns, particularly for the elderly, for those who are not necessarily computer-literate, and for those who find it difficult to travel, that we maintain some form of connection with traditional banking. I fully accept the Minister’s argument that these are market decisions to be taken by individual banks, but we cannot have banking deserts when our constituents need access to banking services.

[Wendy Morton]

We often think about rural communities when discussing banking hubs, but my right hon. Friend’s point about banking deserts is equally important to constituencies such as mine, which now has only one bank left. Some in the banking sector think it is fine for my constituents to have to drive into Walsall or Sutton—it is not.

[Dr Fox]

My right hon. Friend makes an important point. It is incumbent on us all to work with Government and the banking sector to ensure that our constituents have access. She makes a good point: the lack of access was previously more pertinent to rural locations, but then it applied to smaller villages, then smaller towns, and now even larger towns face the situation that she describes.

I wish to make two points to the Minister, one of which I raised during an intervention when I asked, “When will we see the new NPPF?” She indicated that we will see it as soon as the Bill receives Royal Assent. I hope that means that we will have the new NPPF by the time we get to Prorogation, which is not far off. I am sure that we will all hold the Minister to account for the very welcome timeline that she placed on that today.

I would like the Minister to consider one issue above all else, and to respond to it during the debate. There will be a hiatus between the passage of the legislation and its implementation date, but planning permission requests for housing developments will still be made. Will the Minister make it clear that the Planning Inspectorate needs to take into account this legislation, rather than the previous NPPF, when considering such planning applications? It would be quite wrong and profoundly undemocratic if both Houses produced legislation along the lines that the Government have proposed but planning inspectors applied an older version of the NPPF, thereby allowing planning applications that are clearly against the expressed will of Parliament to be approved. We cannot have unelected inspectors making decisions against what this Parliament has clearly decided. I hope that the Minister will give an assurance in her wind-up that, for any planning applications in that hiatus, instructions will be given to the planning inspectorate that it is expected to follow what the Government have set out in the legislation.

[Daisy Cooper]

First, I associate myself with the remarks of the Father of the House, the hon. Member for Worthing West (Sir Peter Bottomley). I agreed with almost all his points, including on having the right measures in place to stop opportunistic developers, on supporting virtual meetings of local government, and especially on leaseholders.

May I reiterate my support for some of the comments made by the right hon. Member for North Somerset (Dr Fox), particularly his call for a timeline for the national planning policy framework update? The Minister will be aware that I have tabled a number of written questions asking her to clarify for the record the status of that consultation. She has very kindly confirmed that it is just a consultation. There is a lot of confusion among my constituents, who believe that the NPPF has already been updated when it has not. I therefore associate myself with the other Members across the House who want to see the NPFF updated—in the Minister’s words—“as soon as possible”.

I rise to oppose the Government’s motion to reject Lords amendment 82, on planning application fees. Ministers will know that I originally tabled this amendment to the Bill 11 months ago, and in March I also tabled a presentation Bill that would have had the same effect. I had a number of meetings with the Minister to explain the reasoning behind this amendment.

My amendment, ultimately, is very simple. At the moment, a Government-imposed cap on planning fees means that local authorities cannot charge big developers the true cost of processing their applications, and the result of that is scandalous. In 2020-21, council tax payers across England effectively subsidised big developers to the tune of almost £2 billion. In St Albans district alone, the figure was a shocking £3.2 million. That’s right: during the biggest cost of living crisis in recent history, taxpayers in St Albans district are subsiding big developers to the tune of £3 million a year.

The Government themselves have recognised this problem. They have run a consultation and agreed to raise the cap on planning fees, but they still refuse to scrap it altogether. According to a “Dear colleague” letter that was circulated yesterday, the reasons are twofold. The first is that the costs might become inconsistent between local authorities. All I would say to that is that planning fees are less than 5% of all professional fees, and that would not cause a huge problem. The second argument is that it would not provide any incentives to tackle inefficiencies in planning departments. I think it is fair to say that local authorities are not awash with cash at the moment, so that is a pretty spurious argument.

The fact is that planning services up and down the country are operating on a shoestring. Funding cuts mean that in many cases, planning departments can no longer even meet their statutory time limits to determine planning applications. Developers and householders find their proposals delayed, in some cases for many months, as councils lack the resources to process them. The Local Government Association says that the current Government caps are

“resulting in significant capacity and skills challenges”

and “undermining” councils’ ability to deliver the quality housing and infrastructure that communities desperately need. It also says that

“councils must have the ability to set planning fees at a level which cover the true costs of processing applications”

if they are to improve the system to the benefit of both communities and developers.

This amendment would allow local councils to put an end to developer subsidies and take steps to pass on the costs of planning applications to those who submit them. Let us look at one specific example. As it stands, a multibillion-pound developer with an incredibly complex development is not obliged to contribute any more than £116 to have each of its planning conditions discharged. In 2014, the Conservative Government decided that a freight terminal the size of 480 football pitches should be built in my constituency of St Albans.

Where the Government decide to build a big piece of infrastructure in a constituency, it is up to the developer to decide whether it wants to enter into a voluntary planning performance agreement and to agree to pay non-statutory fees—effectively volunteering to pay additional fees—for the delivery of a larger site. Some developers do enter into such agreements, but some do not, and there is currently no obligation for them to do so. Where they do not, there are considerable resource implications for local authorities that are trying to discharge planning conditions imposed by Whitehall. Many constituents can face years of misery and chaos due to the construction of a large site and end up paying the developers’ planning costs. It is absurd, and it is unfair.

This vast underfunding also leaves effective planning enforcement activity a distant memory for most people in England. I am sure colleagues across the House will recognise that portrait. What is more, as planning departments across the country struggle with fewer qualified planning officers, developers and applicants say they are willing to pay what it costs to ensure they get a better service. In the light of big developers being prepared to pay this money, it is inconceivable that the Government would tie local authorities’ hands behind their backs by rejecting the amendment.

Government’s refusal to allow local councils to pass on the true costs to developers is lumbering local people with poor planning services and delaying the delivery of sustainable housing, with unscrupulous developers not brought to account for breaching planning conditions in a timely way. All the while, local residents are subsidising big developers. There is no excuse for that to continue. I urge Members across the House to support Lords amendment 82 and oppose the Government’s attempts to vote it down.

--- Later in debate ---

Thirdly, some local councils, such as Suffolk County Council and the Broads Authority, which straddles Suffolk and Norfolk, cover large geographical areas, and one has to ask whether it is appropriate to require councillors to drive up to an hour and a half for a meeting. I am thinking, for example, of a journey from Bungay in north Suffolk, in my constituency, to Ipswich, which is a three-hour round trip. We are seeking to encourage less use of our cars, as we strive towards net zero. Attending these meetings on that basis is expensive, time-consuming and inappropriate when we should be looking to lessen our carbon footprint.

[Dr Fox]

Does my hon. Friend think there is an inconsistency here: company board meetings can be conducted virtually and during covid Parliament was attended virtually, yet parish council meetings cannot be?

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As part of our programme of changes to the planning system, we intend to complete a fuller review of the national planning policy framework to ensure that it contributes to climate change mitigation and adaptation as fully as possible.

[Dr Fox]

I hate to take my hon. Friend back to my earlier question, but she has not answered it. Until we get a new NPPF, planning inspectors will refer to the previous one, and that leaves the option open to them to make decisions that are not in line with the legislation. Will the Minister give guidance to planning inspectors now that in the interim, until the new NPPF is in place, they must take account of what is in legislation passed by the House, rather than referring to the previous NPPF? Otherwise, we will find ourselves in the perverse position where local authorities can give permission to developments that are against what the Government are proposing on areas such as the five-year land bank and housing targets. We cannot allow ourselves to be politically exposed like that. This is a party that wants to win a general election and that expects Ministers to give direction to the planning inspectors.

[Rachel Maclean]

I assure my right hon. Friend that I heard his remarks and concerns. Until we have published the response on the NPPF, it is not possible for us to give directions to the planning inspectors in the way that he has asked. He will also know that the Planning Inspectorate has to work within the framework policy and the legislation of the time. It is important to set out that local areas must get their local plans in place, and I hope that his local area is doing so. That is the best way to ensure that it delivers houses that command the consent of his constituents, for whom he is advocating superbly.

The Bill addresses the entrenched disparities that exist across the United Kingdom, backed by billions of pounds-worth of funding, including, I must add, for Scotland. The hon. Member for Airdrie and Shotts (Ms Qaisar), who spoke for the Scottish National party, was a little ungenerous in her remarks, so I want to land with her the significant investment that this Government are making in Scotland—I think the figure is £394 million—to boost communities across the country.

This Government set clear long-term objectives for levelling up and are held accountable for—

Levelling-up and Regeneration Bill

Liam Fox Excerpts

2nd reading
Wednesday 8th June 2022 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

Wow! Yes, I give way to my right hon. Friend the Member for North Somerset (Dr Fox).

[Dr Liam Fox (North Somerset) (Con)]

Will my right hon. Friend go further for the sake of clarity, and make sure that there is, if not an equation, at least a clear mechanism by which local authorities can net off the contradictory elements—floodplain, green belt—so that they are not asked to build houses in inappropriate numbers simply because of a national target?

[Michael Gove]

Exactly right—my right hon. Friend is spot-on. We do need to have a more sophisticated way of assessing housing need, and that is something we will be doing as part of revisions to the NPPF, but the protections my right hon. Friend quite rightly points out are integral to ensuring that there is democratic consent for development.

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[Dr Liam Fox (North Somerset) (Con)]

Since 1996, 22,317 houses have been built in North Somerset compared with a target of 24,687, which shows that this is not a nimby district. However, as many colleagues will recognise, the overall figures hide enormous variability. During the years when the town of Portishead, a triumph of regeneration, was growing, we exceeded our targets by some way. Taking the period as a whole, targets were exceeded in seven years but missed in 18 years. That is a very good reason for housing planning to be considered over longer periods. Five-year housing land supply measures are nonsensical and should be dropped.

But these figures show the effect of two important factors which need to be tackled in this legislation. The first is the conflicting signals given by central Government to local authorities on planning priorities. While overall housing target numbers are given, there are simultaneous restrictions being put in place. In North Somerset, the land area is 40% green belt, 30% flood zone and 15% area of outstanding natural beauty. In my discussion with the Secretary of State, he made clear he hoped the Planning Inspectorate would take account of local authorities that had tried to balance these conflicting and sometimes contradictory factors when it comes to housing targets, but we have to go much further. We need to furnish local authorities with a clear mechanism to net off the proportion of their land covered by things such as green belt, floodplain and AONB so that more realistic housing targets can be set, reflecting more accurately the availability of land in any one locality.

The second issue we need to tackle is land banking and build-out, which creates a Catch-22 for local authorities. Developers are given permission to build, but they do not do so. They then complain to the Planning Inspectorate that the local authority needs to give more land for housing, which creates a huge amount of uncertainty for local residents and even planning blight, but it helps to fill the developers’ pockets.

[Munira Wilson]

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

[Dr Fox]

I will not give way because so many colleagues want to take part.

The next issue is the green belt. The current framework has stood the test of time and represents a good balance between the values represented by green-belt policy and the need for some unavoidable development to meet local need. The village in which I live has seen two examples of redevelopment and infilling, which represents small and more acceptable development much better than the huge housing estates we have seen in other towns such as Backwell, Nailsea and Yatton in my constituency.

That brings me to my brief final point. We need to see more small developers coming into the housing market to provide much-needed competition and flexibility. I would like the Government to consider whether we can make it easier to have small developments of perhaps 30 to 40 houses, which would be much more attractive to small, new, innovative builders and much less attractive to the current dominant players in the housing market. As a matter of policy, we should introduce competition into the house building market. After all, if I remember correctly, we are a Conservative Government.

Budget Resolutions

Liam Fox Excerpts

Monday 1st November 2021 Commons Chamber

[Dr Liam Fox (North Somerset) (Con)]

In all my time in the House of Commons, I do not think I have heard a Labour response to the Budget that has left me, as this one does, not knowing what Labour would do, in the nightmare scenario of its coming into office. Like my hon. Friend the Member for North West Durham (Mr Holden), I am not sure whether Labour Members think we are taxing and spending too much or too little. It is an utterly economically incompetent way to approach opposition.

Since the era of Gordon Brown, we have got used to wanting to go through the Red Book to find out what we were not told, particularly on the public finances, in the Budget speech. The increases in national insurance and corporation tax will take them to 36.5% of Britain’s GDP—the highest proportion in 70 years. That undermines the tax-cutting agenda that we Conservatives have had for such a long time when in office.

I am pleased that public spending as a proportion of GDP will fall from the 51.3% that it was as a result of the pandemic. We all accept that we had to spend money in that national emergency. Had the Chancellor not taken brave and decisive measures, the impact on unemployment, and therefore the public finances, could have been substantially worse. What really disturbs me about the Budget figures, however, is that from 2024-25, public spending will stabilise at 41.6% of GDP, and that is the highest sustained level since the 1970s, when we were carrying a substantial defence burden because of the cold war. We see a shift to a bigger state, and to a bigger proportion of our spending being taken up by welfare.

I do not normally learn very much from “Newsnight”, but I was interested to find out from the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, when he was on it, that the Conservatives have changed our philosophy on economic management. I say to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities that although some in the Government may take a more social democratic approach to economic management, I certainly did not come to Parliament, as a Conservative, to see the state grow at the expense of the private sector. We need to remember what gave Britain its substantial economic strength.

However, when it comes to the economy, it is not the Budget that will affect the political weather, but inflation. In all my years in the House of Commons, and before then, politicians have been too slow to recognise the threat that inflation poses to the economy. They always want to believe that the present high level is the peak, and that they will not have to apply too much unpleasant medicine. Inflation, as we all know, is like a genie: once it is out of the bottle, it is very hard to put it back in. Let us remember the economic and social cost of inflation. It hits the poorest hardest, because a higher proportion of their income goes on non-discretionary spending—on clothes and food, for example. That is why the left’s approach to economic management, which always ends up in higher inflation, always undermines the very people it claims to represent.

Inflation also hits those with no assets. If there is the sort of inflation that there was in the past, including house price inflation, it will put getting on the housing ladder even further beyond the reach of young people. When I bought my first flat in 1988, the interest rate was 10.38%. By October the next year, it had risen to 14.88%, and the payments took almost my entire income as a junior doctor. I do not want another generation to go through the horror of inflation. People have become used to low inflation and interest rates in this country, and I do not think that the public understand exactly what the cost would be—the effect on the living standard of ordinary families—if inflation was allowed to get going.

I understand that there is a difficult choice for the Chancellor. Is inflation a short-term impact of the pandemic and of the disruption to supply chains; a system problem, too much money having been pumped into the global economy through quantitative easing for too long; or a mixture of both, which of course would be the most difficult option to deal with? The Bank of England should set a small, quick increase in interest rates—a 0.25% rise—to show that we are neither panicking nor complacent about inflation. The longer we wait to take action, the further behind the curve we get, and the greater the measures that we have to take.

A final point: let us remember the impact of inflation on our public finances. A 1% base rate adds £20.1 billion to the Government’s debt repayment. That is real money that could be spent elsewhere. A 2% base rate makes for over £70 billion in Government debt repayment; that is more than twice our Defence budget. That is the reality of where inflation can lead if we do not do something about it quickly.

Building Safety Bill

Liam Fox Excerpts

2nd reading
Wednesday 21st July 2021 Commons Chamber

[The Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government (Robert Jenrick)]

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

Today marks the next significant step on our path to a robust but proportionate building safety regime that delivers high standards of safety for people’s homes, particularly those that are high rise, while providing reassurance to leaseholders, residents and the market that the vast majority of homes in this country are safe. In February, I announced our five-point plan to support leaseholders and address building safety issues: a plan to remove unsafe cladding where it is necessary and proportionate to do so; to provide certainty to leaseholders in the significant minority of buildings that require works; to make industry pay its fair share for its failures and poor practices and ensure a change in the broader culture and attitude of the industry to quality and safety; to create a world-class building safety regime; and to inject confidence and certainty into this part of the housing market, which has been suffering from market failure, with significant detrimental effects for many homeowners across the land.

[Dr Liam Fox (North Somerset) (Con)]

rose—

[Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/Co-op)]

Will the Secretary of State give way?

[Robert Jenrick]

I will do so in a moment, and I will also give way to my right hon. Friend the Member for North Somerset (Dr Fox).

The Bill delivers on our promise to create that world-class building safety regime, but one that is sensible and proportionate, reflecting the true level of risk that living in these buildings poses and thereby safeguarding the broader interests of homeowners and residents.

Today I will set out the key measures in the Bill and update the House on the progress of our plan, including providing further detail on a written ministerial statement that I have just published, representing a significant intervention by the Government and lenders in response to expert advice on building safety in medium and low-rise blocks of flats and the use of EWS1 forms that I commissioned earlier in the year.

[Dr Fox]

Does my right hon. Friend accept that we have to get away from the term “cladding” as a generic issue and start to focus on genuine fire risk? There is a real danger of us creating unnecessary anxiety and cost where there is little or no increase in fire risk and, what is worse, using taxpayers’ money to remedy non-fire risks that should be the responsibility of the building industry.

[Robert Jenrick]

I could not agree more with my right hon. Friend. That is exactly the approach that we now need to follow as a country. I hope that the written ministerial statement, which I will come on to explain in a moment, will provide further reassurance to him.

Levelling-up Bids: North Somerset

Liam Fox Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd June 2021 Westminster Hall

[Dr Liam Fox (North Somerset) (Con)]

I am here to support the case made by my hon. Friend the Member for Weston-super-Mare (John Penrose). I am all too aware that my constituency does not qualify for money from the levelling-up fund and we have only a small chance of getting any money from the community renewal fund, but I am here to give my support for two reasons: first, the generic, and secondly, the specific.

On the generic case, too often in our country, as many of us will attest from our time in Parliament, areas of deprivation that happen to be in the same district or constituency as areas of relative affluence can disappear in the data. The sensitivity and specificity of the data can mean that they do not show up at all. That is certainly the case with the town of Weston-super-Mare, where, as my hon. Friend has said, the data is very clear. However, if we add the data of the rest of the parliamentary constituency, we see that it is not at all clear, and if we then add the data from the rest of the North Somerset district—which, as he has said, includes my constituency, one of the most affluent in the country—it can all but disappear.

When we consider the differences in Weston-super-Mare itself, we find that the unemployment rate is twice that of my constituency next door. The health profile of my constituency is much better than that of Weston-super-Mare. Income is higher and the quality of jobs is better.

Lest anyone thinks that this is a case of pure altruism, let me turn to the specifics. Given that Weston-super-Mare is the biggest town in our district, its status matters. It gets many more tourists than places such as Clevedon, which is a very well-kept, upmarket Victorian tourist town in my constituency. Most visitors, however, go to Weston-super-Mare, and the quality of the services they receive is important to the status of the district as a whole.

It is also very important that, just because someone lives in a relatively poor part of a wealthy area, they must not be disregarded. I have often felt that the two things that nobody in this country wants to be is poor in a rich area or sick in a healthy area, because when it comes to services, they tend to be not ignored but not seen by those who plan public provision. Therefore, this debate is important for all the reasons that my hon. Friend has set out today and for the purposes to which the money could be put. Although my constituents recognise that they would not benefit directly from the money, they would benefit indirectly by the improved status that Weston-super-Mare could enjoy.

In conclusion, given that this is being done on a constituency basis, one of my councillors asked, “Why won’t our constituency get levelling-up money?” I had to point out to him that it is the status of our constituency, as demonstrated by many of the indicators, that people are levelling up to. It is not something to level up from. I can therefore say, with the greatest sincerity, that we are completely as one—including our council, whose leadership does not share our political views—in believing that this would benefit all of the people in North Somerset, whether they be direct recipients of the money or indirect recipients of the benefits it would achieve. I say to my hon. Friend the Minister that the bids to both the levelling-up fund and the community renewal fund are entirely cross-district bids, for all the reasons set out so eloquently by my constituency neighbour. I hope that the Minister will take fully into account the point that deficiencies in the sensitivity and specificity of data should not mean that, just because someone happens to be poor in a wealthy area, they are not seen by this Government.

Affordable and Safe Housing for All

Liam Fox Excerpts

Tuesday 18th May 2021 Commons Chamber

[Dr Liam Fox (North Somerset) (Con)]

Unlike the bizarre and perverse world view expressed by the SNP in the previous speech, I very much welcome as a tonic the enthusiasm, innovation and creativity that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has brought to his brief and exhibited today.

Of course, the success of housing policy is dependent on balancing two elements. The first is encouraging home ownership in order to provide stability and security in the way that many of us have been able to enjoy, but which too many young people are not yet able to. That needs to be balanced against the interests of existing communities where houses are built, so that we do not have overstretch of infrastructure such as healthcare and education. We need to ensure that visual amenity and quality of life are not unduly damaged, and that we are able to create more jobs where housing is being built so that we do not continue to have commuter towns with all the disbenefits that they have seen in recent decades.

As part of my view of Conservatism, I have always had an indispensable view about the value of the green belt. I am pleased that the Secretary of State is placing great emphasis on the maintenance of green-belt land. It is there for a purpose: to stop urban sprawl and the concreting over of our countryside. Once it is gone, it is gone forever. It is therefore our duty to protect it for future generations, rather than giving in to short-term interests in one way or another.

This matter is tied up with the concept that the housing targets set by the Government are not instructions to build, but targets; and they are targets that need to be netted off against other interests that the Government may have set out, for example: the green belt, not wanting to build on floodplains, and not damaging our areas of outstanding natural beauty. They are difficult balances to get and they are always controversial in any one area.

As the Secretary of State knows, we have many of these difficulties in North Somerset—a part of the country that is well away from the nimby part of the spectrum. In fact, as the new Boundary Commission is likely to show, many of my constituents, because of the rise in our population, will be represented in constituencies outside North Somerset. It is very important to point out to district councils that the setting of the Government’s targets is not an excuse for them to try to build on green-belt land, because that is, I am afraid, what some of them are attempting to do.

The Government’s plans on the housing numbers have to be seen alongside some of the other elements of policy and the levelling-up agenda. The regeneration of some of our great cities, particularly in the northern part of England, will stop the drift of people to the south of England, which adds to the pressure on housing. The ability to get greater regeneration in terms of jobs in that part of the country will enable people to stay and to have the sorts of careers that they have otherwise only been able to get by moving closer to London. We must stop being a London-centric country when it comes to our planning system. I very much welcome that, as I do the opening up of competition in the house-building sector. Far too much power lies in the hands of the oligopoly in this country, and we need to see far more smaller companies coming into that sector if we are to see the sort of improvements that many of us want to see.

We still have to deal with the issue of cladding. The £5.1 billion set aside by the Government is a very large amount of money, particularly in the current fiscal circumstances. I caution my colleagues against thinking that they will be able to get substantially more money from the Treasury. We have to ensure that we get the end of forfeiture, which is why I welcome the leasehold reform. We need to ensure that the cost falls in the appropriate place, not on leaseholders, and that we do not absolve developers and builders of their responsibility to put right the mistakes that they created. We must ensure that taxpayers’ money is spent only where it is absolutely necessary and that taxpayers are not ripped off by putting right things through public money that should be put right through the private money of the developers.

I welcome my right hon. Friend’s commitment to look at Portishead in my constituency as an example of many of these issues. I look forward to welcoming him or his officials—as many of them as would like to come down. I end with a word of warning at the risk of presenting myself as an unreconstructed fiscal Conservative: money will be very tight. The effect of quantitative easing, as set out by the OBR, means that we, as a country, are vulnerable to rises in interest rates, and we must therefore limit the way in which we seem to be splashing money in every single direction. We need to return to sound money and fiscal Conservatism, because we need to conserve the opportunities for the future by not landing the next generation in undue debt.

Fire Safety Bill

Liam Fox Excerpts

Wednesday 28th April 2021 Commons Chamber

[Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab) [V]]

The Minister knows that this problem is not going to go away. Whether it is the Fire Safety Bill today or in the Building Safety Bill, we will keep returning to this. He knows that because what has been done so far is insufficient. He knows it because, as things stand, the length of time it is likely to take to sort this out will be too long for many leaseholders to be able to continue to bear the costs that they are paying at the moment and to contemplate the future costs that hang over them. And the Government know it because, as they said right at the beginning of this crisis—we intend to hold them to this promise—it is not right that leaseholders should be asked to bear the costs of something they were not responsible for.

I really do not understand the Minister’s argument. The uncertainty is not caused by our voting for the Lords amendments; it is the unresolved problem that is causing huge uncertainty. As for his point about drafting complexity, he should give a commitment to go away and draft something and bring it back in the Building Safety Bill, because either his view is that it is complex and no one has drafted anything suitable yet—so go away and draft it—or it is simply a way of trying to resist the idea that leaseholders should not have to pay.

In the meantime, I have a practical suggestion to make. All those involved, including MPs, spend a lot of time going back and forth about practical problems in respect of blocks, difficulties, delays, a lack of communication and so forth. I have had to use parliamentary questions to try to find out what has been happening in respect of applications to the building safety fund for particular blocks in my constituency. I have to say, the replies I have received have been distinctly unhelpful.

A very large range of people is involved: leaseholders of course, freeholders, the fire service, managing agents, building companies, developers, chartered surveyors, local authorities, mortgage lenders, insurance companies, and the Minister’s Department. I know that Ministers and officials meet individual groups and organisations regularly, but I think there would be great merit in bringing together representatives of all these groups to establish what we can call a contact group or an action group, so that the Minister and his officials can sit around a table on a regular basis to share information about what is happening and to progress-chase, iron out problems, test out ideas and find answers to the problems for which there is as yet no plan, but which my constituents in Leeds have to live with each and every day and which weigh so heavily upon them, their lives and their sense of whether there is a future that they can look forward to, because, as things stand, there is not one. I really hope that Ministers will take up the idea and finally acknowledge that only a comprehensive plan is going to bring this nightmare to an end.

[Dr Liam Fox (North Somerset) (Con)]

Again, we all want the same thing. We want the protection of leaseholders from bills that they cannot afford and should not have been given; we want the protection of taxpayers from a burden that they should not have to carry; and we want the application of the “polluter pays” principle, so that the developers, insurers and builders who are responsible for the problems in the first place are the ones who have to pay the costs of remediation. All of that has become perfectly clear during our various debates on the matter.

I welcome what my hon. Friend the Member for Southampton, Itchen (Royston Smith) said yesterday and today about establishing a study on the ground—similar, in some ways, to that which the right hon. Member for Leeds Central (Hilary Benn) just mentioned—that would make it possible to talk to real people about real bills, and about why the huge sum of taxpayers’ money that has been set aside is not getting through to them. What rate-limiting steps, and what problems with bureaucracy and the timescales that have been set, make it impossible for that money to get to the people who need it? I very much welcome that idea. I hope that the timescale will be short and the Minister will be able to share the lessons learned with all Members.

Today, the Minister has edged us towards the necessary compromise. If we are willing to make it clear in the Queen’s Speech that leasehold reform will deal with forfeiture, that will remove one of the biggest fears. As the Father of the House said, what about the potential for forfeiture to occur during the time before the passing of that legislation? That does need to be dealt with. If I may say so, my hon. Friend the Minister was clearer about that today than he was yesterday, and that is hugely to be welcomed. I have always thought that the idea that we could not say what would be in the Queen’s Speech sat a bit oddly with the fact that we can read what will be in the Budget three days before it actually happens.

I also welcome what my hon. Friend the Minister said about the scope of the Building Safety Bill and the ability to set out in it the concept of apportionment, which will be a major element. I hope that if we can take these concepts forward in the other place, we might reach a solution to this problem. It seems to me that the building blocks of a solution are there.

As my hon. Friend and Members from all parts of the House have said, we all want certainty, so that lenders can lend, property values can stabilise and homeowners—the very people my party wants to encourage—can sleep soundly in their beds once again, as they have a right to do.

[Tim Farron (Westmorland and Lonsdale) (LD)]

I, too, rise to support the Lords amendment. The amendment is simple; it protects leaseholders and prevents them from being charged crippling, life-changingly colossal bills to make safe properties that are unsafe only because of the actions of developers and a lack of Government regulation.

Here we are: the Government have played to the final whistle, and they are down by the corner flag keeping ball and feigning cramp in the hope that the final whistle will go and we will all move on. Let me be clear. I assure the Minister—and, more importantly, I encourage anxious and distressed leaseholders—that we will not give up. We will not troop off the field, not to play again, once the 90 minutes are up. We will come back next Session and fight the corner of leaseholders who currently face bills that they can never, ever hope to be able to afford, and that are not theirs to pay in the first place.

As has been mentioned, the Government’s stance on this issue sets out starkly whose side they are on. They are on the side of the wealthy developers, some of whom fund their party. They are on the side of negligent officials who allowed this to happen. They are not on the side of those who are working hard to afford a roof above their heads. This is a Britain, it would appear, where innocent householders have to pay to remove dangerous cladding while somebody else pays for the Prime Minister’s new curtains. We believe in a better Britain where there is justice, not crushing, undeserved debt. If we do not win today, then, for the sake of leaseholders across this country, we will be back.

--- Later in debate ---

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

In order to observe social distancing, the Reasons Committee will meet not in the Reasons Room, but in Committee Room 12.

[Dr Liam Fox (North Somerset) (Con)]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. Further to a point raised at Scottish questions today, the Auditor General in Scotland has suggested that, of £9.7 billion allocated by UK taxpayers through the UK Treasury, only £7 billion had been spent on covid-related measures by the Scottish Government by the end of 2020. This is not discretionary spending that can be diverted to other causes, such as setting money aside for a referendum, but is specifically allocated to ensure that all parts of the UK are equally able to deal with the consequences of the pandemic. Given the nature and origin of this funding, can you give me any guidance as to which Committees of the House of Commons would be the most appropriate place to investigate where this money has gone?

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his point of order. If he were seeking to further the exchanges that took place during Scottish questions, his point would not, strictly speaking, be a point of order for the Chair, but I appreciate that he is asking a serious question about a serious matter. I can point him in the direction of the Public Accounts Committee, which is concerned with the regularity of spending; the Scottish Affairs Committee, which deals with non-devolved Scottish matters; and the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee, which is concerned with the operation of the devolution settlement. In pursuing the question that he raised, he might wish to take the matter up with the Chairman of one or other—or, indeed, all—of those three Select Committees.