Mother and Baby Institutions Payment Scheme: Capital Disregard

Liam Conlon Excerpts

Tuesday 10th June 2025 Westminster Hall

[Liam Conlon (Beckenham and Penge) (Lab)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the potential merits of introducing a capital disregard for payments made to UK residents under the Republic of Ireland’s Mother and Baby Institutions Payment Scheme.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Ms Jardine, and to introduce this debate. I welcome the Minister and thank him for giving his time to this important matter. I thank Members from across the House who are present today and have been so supportive. Ahead of this debate, over 100 MPs and peers on a cross-party basis signed an open letter in support of Philomena’s law. That included nearly every mainstream party in Britain and Northern Ireland. In the Public Gallery, we are joined by Irish community organisations and survivors, as well as Philomena Lee’s family—her daughter Jane and grandson Joshua.

I will begin by reminding Members what happened to Philomena Lee. Philomena was 18 years old when she became pregnant, and as a result was sent to Sean Ross Abbey mother and baby home in Roscrea, County Tipperary, in Ireland. There, Philomena gave birth to her son, Anthony. They lived there for three years before she was forced to give him up for adoption. Anthony was sold to a couple in the United States; Philomena would never see him again.

Philomena’s story brought the scandal of Ireland’s mother and baby homes to a global audience through the Oscar-nominated film “Philomena”, where she is played by Dame Judi Dench. The film also stars Steve Coogan, who plays Martin Sixsmith, the BBC journalist who helped Philomena Lee in her heartbreaking search for her son. I am delighted that Philomena’s law has the support of Philomena Lee and her family, as well as the public backing of Steve Coogan. This campaign to change the law seeks justice for thousands of women like Philomena and their children, who were resident in Ireland’s mother and baby homes.

[Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)]

I congratulate the hon. Member on securing this debate. I and many others have watched the film. Does he agree that although many of us are very critical of the media—I am among them—on this occasion, a matter was brought to wider attention that otherwise might not have been? We owe a debt of gratitude to all those who were involved in the broadcasting of such a film.

[Liam Conlon]

I completely agree, and it shows the power of film and culture to tell such stories.

Mother and baby homes were open in Ireland for more than seven decades until the 1990s. During that time, 56,000 so-called fallen women were sent to those cruel institutions, and 57,000 children were born or placed in them. The women’s only crime was the perceived sin of becoming pregnant outside of marriage. There they suffered the most horrific mistreatment and abuse. Women were used as unpaid labour. Others, like Philomena, had their children forcibly adopted, sometimes overseas, never to be seen again. Too many women died in these institutions, and infant mortality was shockingly high.

Many survivors who escaped moved to Britain as a direct result of the mistreatment they experienced in mother and baby homes. In some cases, they came because they thought that disappearing from Ireland was the only way to protect their families’ reputations. Thousands came to this country for a fresh start and to build a new life, but they carried with them a great deal of internalised shame as well as the secret of what had happened to them. For lots of survivors, including Philomena, it was not until much later in life that they felt able to confront what had happened to them and share the details of those traumatic years with their families, often revealing long-lost relatives in the process.

It was a significant day in 2021 when survivors finally received an apology from the then Taoiseach Micheál Martin for what he described as:

“the profound, generational wrong visited upon Irish mothers and their children”.

That was followed by the mother and baby institutions payment scheme to provide compensation for what happened to them. The scheme opened to applications in March 2021. It represents a measure of accountability for what happened and aims to acknowledge the suffering, and improve the circumstances, of former residents of mother and baby homes.

However, for more than 13,000 survivors living in Britain today, what was meant to be a token of acknowledgement and apology has ended up becoming an additional burden. That is because under our current rules, any money accepted through the payment scheme is considered to be savings, and it could see recipients lose any means-tested benefits—such as housing benefit, pension credit or financial support for social care—that they receive.

[Daniel Francis (Bexleyheath and Crayford) (Lab)]

I pay tribute to the fantastic work carried out by Irish Community Services in Bexleyheath in my constituency. It is supporting a number of survivors who are in those circumstances and would lose their means-tested benefit. Does my hon. Friend agree that the Government need to look at disregarding the rules, so that survivors can keep both their compensation and any benefit that they are entitled to?

[Liam Conlon]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The work of Irish Community Services in Bexleyheath is outstanding, and I will discuss some of the work of other community groups shortly. We absolutely need to see an indefinite disregard.

[Daisy Cooper (St Albans) (LD)]

I congratulate the hon. Member not only on securing this debate, but on leading the charge on this issue in the House and commanding such enormous and widespread cross-party support. Does he agree that justice delayed is justice denied? We all agree with what he is calling for, and we hope the Minister may agree with it later, too. However, it is not good enough just to agree. There is a real urgency about getting justice for those women who were affected, and for their descendants and families, to whom we all pay tribute.

--- Later in debate ---

[Liam Conlon]

Absolutely. I thank the hon. Member for being the constituency MP of the real-life Philomena, whom I know she has been supporting. She is right that for many of these survivors, the clock is running.

Broadly speaking, impacted survivors now find themselves in one of three situations. Some accepted compensation before realising the negative impact that it could have. Other survivors have received an offer of compensation, but they have delayed accepting it because of the uncertainty around how their benefits or social care might be impacted. Finally, there are survivors who are not making an application at all until the picture becomes clearer.

[Rebecca Long Bailey (Salford) (Lab)]

I thank my hon. Friend for his tireless campaigning on this important issue alongside Irish community groups here in the UK. As he will know, thousands of survivors left Ireland for Britain, with huge numbers of them settling in the north-west. They were scarred by the physical and emotional abuse that they had faced, but they were also disturbed by the ease with which powerful institutions could abuse their power without question. Does he agree that more needs to be done to reassure survivors that those administering the scheme will be trauma-informed and act solely in the interests of survivors, and that those who apply for compensation will suffer no detriment to their current entitlements?

[Liam Conlon]

Absolutely. I thank my hon. Friend for her campaigning on this issue. I know that she is a tireless advocate of the Irish community in Salford, of which she is part. She is absolutely right, and I discussed this issue with Patricia Carey, the survivors’ advocate, in Dublin over Easter.

There are survivors who will not make an application at all until the picture becomes clearer, and that is contributing to the incredibly low take-up of the scheme by eligible survivors in Britain. At just 5%, the take-up rate here falls far behind that in Ireland. Unfortunately, the age profile of many eligible applicants means that delays in making applications or accepting offers risk people not living long enough to benefit from the compensation that they are due.

Let me give just one recent example. A man who was born into a mother and baby home became so concerned about the impact that any compensation would have on his benefits that he held off making a decision for as long as possible. Sadly, after finally accepting the offer, he passed away within a matter of months, unable to benefit from the compensation that he was due. I think we can all agree that the situation is unjust.

[Lola McEvoy (Darlington) (Lab)]

I thank my hon. Friend for giving way and for securing this debate. It is clear to me and to all of us who support his campaign that it is about justice. Does he agree that the low uptake of the scheme might also be down to a significant amount of internalised shame, as expressed by my own family members who have been affected by this? What he is doing today is putting a full stop to that shame and drawing a line to say that this will never happen again in any of our institutions, in Ireland or in the UK.

[Liam Conlon]

Absolutely. I thank my hon. Friend, and I know that she has a strong personal connection to this issue. She is right to note that for decades women lived under a cloud of secrecy and shame. Having the conversation publicly in this campaign is partly to deliver justice and also to tackle the stigma of being in a mother and baby home.

Philomena’s law seeks to right that wrong. It proposes the introduction of what is called a capital disregard, which would mean that any compensation from the scheme is ringfenced. It would enable survivors to apply for and accept the payments without fear that doing so would negatively affect their benefits. There is strong precedent for such a solution. The same mechanism has been used for many other special compensation schemes in the past, including supporting the victims of Windrush, those affected by the 7/7 and Manchester bombings, the blood contamination scandal and many more. One change in the law could have a significant impact on the lives of thousands of survivors, and that is what the campaign seeks to deliver.

Before I conclude, I want to turn to the many Irish community and civic society organisations, some of which are represented here today. For many years, they have done vital work to support survivors across the country. I am delighted that we are joined by Rosa from Irish in Britain, Patrick from the Fréa Network, Séan and Katie from the London Irish Centre, Noelette from the Luton Irish Forum, Manisha and Simon from the Coventry Irish Society and so many more. From family tracing to support groups and counselling, to practical help with payment scheme applications, those groups are on the frontline, working around the clock to get the best possible outcomes for survivors.

Ireland’s mother and baby homes were cruel institutions. More than 100,000 women and children were either placed in them or born there. Thousands of them suffered horrific mistreatment and abuse and were forced to live under a cloud of secrecy and shame. After decades of campaigning, survivors finally received an apology from the Irish Government and access to a redress scheme, but 13,000 survivors living in Britain today are at risk of not being able to access compensation without the fear of losing means-tested benefits.

That is by default rather than by design, but it is firmly within our gift to correct it. Philomena’s law, named after the courageous Philomena Lee, and in tribute to every survivor in Britain, will do just that by ringfencing payments. We can do it; we have done it already for victims of other scandals, including blood contamination and Windrush. Although I appreciate that it is unprecedented to ringfence payments from a foreign Government, everything is unprecedented until it happens. We have an opportunity, through Philomena’s law, to help to deliver justice and, in doing so, show thousands of women and children survivors the empathy, kindness and respect they have so often been denied throughout their lives.

[Christine Jardine (in the Chair)]

I remind Members that they should bob if they wish to be called in the debate. I should also mention there is likely to be a vote shortly, at which point we will suspend the sitting for 15 minutes to allow Members to vote.

--- Later in debate ---

[Liam Conlon]

I will sum up by paying tribute to the many excellent contributions this afternoon. The hon. Member for East Londonderry (Mr Campbell) spoke about the importance of film and culture in telling these stories. That was a reminder that this law is called Philomena’s law, because it was Philomena’s story that brought this issue to a global audience and really broke the mould by allowing people to discuss it. It lifted the cloud of secrecy and shame for so many. I offer a huge thank you to everyone involved in the film “Philomena”, not least Philomena herself for her courage in telling her story.

My hon. Friend the Member for Bexleyheath and Crayford (Daniel Francis) spoke eloquently about the role of Irish community organisations, including Irish Community Services, which is in his constituency. Again, I thank those Irish community organisations, including Irish in Britain, that are represented here today.

The hon. Member for St Albans (Daisy Cooper) spoke about the need for timely justice, especially given the age profile of survivors. I thank her for her support for Philomena and other survivors across Britain. In response to her question about whether we can facilitate a conversation with survivors to ensure that their voice is heard, we had an event in Parliament a couple of months ago, and it would be great to organise something similar and invite a Minister to attend.

My hon. Friend the Member for Salford (Rebecca Long Bailey) spoke about trust in institutions more broadly, which was a point echoed by my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool West Derby (Ian Byrne). She is right that there is now significant distrust among survivors as a result of what happened to them; these homes were state sponsored, as well as being sponsored by the church. It takes an incredibly long time to repair trust, and that is why the integrity of bodies such as the survivors’ advocate’s office is also important, because there we have people with lived experience leading the process and the way that it is administered.

My hon. Friend the Member for Darlington (Lola McEvoy) spoke about her really powerful and personal connection to this issue, and about what could be learned in the future to prevent the dither and delay that we have seen around this issue from happening to other people in the years to come.

My hon. Friend the Member for Luton South and South Bedfordshire (Rachel Hopkins) shared the story of her constituent Christina Kavanagh, who is here this afternoon with us. I say to Christina, “It is a real honour to have you here.” It is a reminder that we should never forget the human picture in these discussions, because when we talk about numbers, behind every single number is a real person—a life. We are doing this for you, Christina, and for many others. I also thank my hon. Friend for being such a fantastic supporter of the brilliant Irish community in Luton.

The hon. Member for Torbay (Steve Darling) made a really powerful contribution to the debate, with personal testimony about the long-term impact of the trauma this issue has caused families. That will continue for many years to come, both in Britain and in Ireland.

My hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool West Derby was right to draw comparisons with Hillsborough, and he spoke of his support for a Hillsborough law. There is no greater champion of the Irish in Liverpool, which is sometimes referred to as the 33rd county of Ireland due to its fantastic population. I know he is a long-standing supporter of the Liverpool Irish centre, which has done amazing work in advocating for survivors, so I thank him for his support.

The hon. Member for South West Devon (Rebecca Smith) was right to comment on the scale of the institutional abuse and its impact. In this House and this country, we often talk about the number of people killed during the troubles and the impact that had. Far more people—women and children—died in those institutions than were killed throughout the entirety of the troubles, and that casts a long shadow on Ireland and on people in Britain.

The hon. Member for Upper Bann (Carla Lockhart) said that wherever those people are, we need justice. That should know no borders. It is really important that the devolved institutions, central Government and local authorities work together to deliver that.

I thank the Minister for his remarks, for meeting me and for starting talks with the Irish Government and the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office on this issue. It is really appreciated. He has been a fantastic champion of the Irish community in Stretford and Urmston and across Manchester. He is right to note the comments made by Minister Foley in the Irish Government. I had the pleasure of meeting her in Dublin over Easter. On a personal level, I really support the need for religious orders to step up in Ireland. The campaign has been led by our sister party in Ireland, the Irish Labour party. Importantly, Ivana Bacik, the leader of the Irish Labour party, has brought it forward to the Dáil and the Oireachtas, and I urge them to deliver justice for the victims.

I appreciate that we do not know exactly how many survivors are on means-tested benefits. I suggest that it is probably higher than for the average population, because a lot of those women were incredibly vulnerable when they came here, and a lot of them would have been incredibly isolated. A survivor told me that often the first thing that a person coming from Ireland to Britain would do was seek to join the community that they were part of in Ireland, but the women who left those institutions sought to be as far away from them as possible because of the shame that followed them. They wanted to build a new life, and in doing so they often became isolated, and they have had very difficult lives since. They were often very vulnerable at the time and remain very vulnerable today. Although we do not have a number, I expect that it will be higher than for the average population.

I appreciate that the UK Government are responsible for events, but they are also responsible for people. We are responsible for the large number of those women and children who have been living in Britain for many decades, so that should be our focus.

I thank everybody who has contributed to this debate, everyone who has come here this afternoon and everyone who has contacted me. I thank the more than 100 MPs and peers who signed an open letter on a cross-party basis in support of Philomena’s law. We have had support from public figures such as Steve Coogan and, today, “Derry Girls” star Siobhán McSweeney. I really appreciate it. I know we have a long road to travel on this campaign —hopefully, not too long—but I am determined that we will do that. I will keep campaigning until we do.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered the potential merits of introducing a capital disregard for payments made to UK residents under the Republic of Ireland’s Mother and Baby Institutions Payment Scheme.