Kashmir

Khalid Mahmood Excerpts

Thursday 19th January 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Nuttall]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. In a few lines’ time, I will mention the historic decision that this country took on 23 June last year.

[Mr Khalid Mahmood (Birmingham, Perry Barr) (Lab)]

I concur with the hon. Member for Shipley (Philip Davies) that this issue is about Kashmir, but it involves not just India and Pakistan, but China, so we have to concentrate on all of them to ensure that the civil and human rights of the Kashmiri are the priority in this debate.

[Mr Nuttall]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right that the matter involves more than one nation and, crucially, is about the rights of the Kashmiri people.

We have to make it clear to both India and Pakistan that we want to help them find a permanent, peaceful solution to the conflict. Of course, this country cannot impose a solution, but we may be able to do more to bring the parties closer together. I want to be absolutely clear that this is not about taking sides and saying, “If you are a friend of Kashmir, you are not a friend of India.” The problem must be resolved by peaceful means. I want the people of Kashmir to be given the right to decide their own future through self-determination, a right which was so historically exercised by the people of this country on 23 June last year when a majority voted to leave the European Union.

No one believes that there is an easy answer, but anything has to be better than having a military-controlled line of partition between the two neighbouring countries. I suspect that there will always be a rivalry between India and Pakistan, but that rivalry should be contained on the field of sport. In responding to the debate, I ask the Minister to set out not only the Government’s position on Kashmir, but what more this country can do.

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[Mr Khalid Mahmood (Birmingham, Perry Barr) (Lab)]

I declare that I am privileged to be the first Member of Parliament of Kashmiri heritage. I also have a significant number of Kashmiri constituents, who have a significant interest in this issue. I am sure that many other Members have been contacted by constituents with such an interest.

The key issues when discussing Kashmir are Kashmiri geography and Kashmiri self-determination, and many people are very concerned about that. For me, the key issue today is the violation of the human rights and civil liberties of the Kashmiri people—that is the most important thing. There have been violations of the Geneva convention by Indian armed forces.

As other Members have said, Kashmiris are having their human rights violated and abused. That has gone on for at least the past six decades, since Indian forces unlawfully invaded Kashmir in 1948. Kashmir was then an independent state under the reign of Maharaja Hari Singh. In 1953-54, a resolution was presented to the United Nations by the then Prime Minister of India, Jawaharlal Nehru, to allow the Kashmiri people the right of self-determination. To date, to the shame of the United Nations, such resolutions have not found their way to the General Assembly. People still wonder—certainly the Kashmiris are still wondering—whether the plight of the Kashmiris is worth its salt; it certainly seems not to be worth hearing in the General Assembly of the United Nations. That is very significant.

A number of Members wish to speak, so I will try to be as brief as possible. I recognise the work of the shadow Foreign Office team, particularly my hon. Friend the Member for Heywood and Middleton (Liz McInnes), who has responsibility for south-east Asia, and the shadow Secretary of State, my hon. Friend the Member for Islington South and Finsbury (Emily Thornberry). They have both made recognising human rights and civil liberties a significant policy issue for the Labour party. The shadow Secretary of State has written to the Foreign Secretary, ahead of his second visit to India, asking him to raise the issue of human rights and civil liberties in Kashmir when he discusses trade. I hope that, on his return, he will report to the House that he has raised those issues with the Indian Government.

There are currently more than 500,000 Indian troops in Kashmir, and they are protected by the Armed Forces (Jammu & Kashmir) Special Power Act 1990, which allows them complete free rein to abuse and torture people. There is no accountability when people go missing, and there is no court in India than can hold Indian troops to account. It is a clear violation of the Geneva convention for any military to be able to do such things, and I am surprised that we still do not raise it. I hope the Minister takes note and raises it with the Indian Government.

[Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Bury North (Mr Nuttall) on securing this debate, and I congratulate him and my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Perry Barr (Mr Mahmood) on their powerful speeches. Does my hon. Friend agree that there is a particular concern about the use of pellet guns in Kashmir? Does he agree with me and Amnesty International that there should be a ban on the use of such guns, which are causing such serious injuries to so many people?

[Mr Mahmood]

I thank my hon. Friend for that. I will deal with that issue later in my speech, but I wholly agree with what she is saying.

I was talking about half a million soldiers in Kashmir who have no control over how they behave and how they abuse the people. There are serious concerns in Kashmir, particularly about the situation of the civilian population. We are very concerned that when a woman leaves the house, whether she be a mother, a daughter or a wife, we do not know what state she will return in—if indeed she will return at all. There have been gang rapes by the military—an absolutely atrocious act by any individual or community.

[Ruth Smeeth (Stoke-on-Trent North) (Lab)]

I am sorry to interrupt such an incredibly passionate speech. One thing the Government fail to recognise is the passion, worry and fear that our constituents, British citizens of Kashmiri and non-Kashmiri extraction, have about this issue. Does my hon. Friend agree that the Minister and the Government really need to listen and start paying attention to the needs and demands of their citizens?

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[Mr Mahmood]

I wholly concur with my hon. Friend, who makes a very valid point, particularly on the issue of the abuse of women. We do not allow and accept that in any way at home or in any other country, so why should we allow it to go unchecked when we are talking about the Indian forces in India and in Kashmir? Why should this be allowed to continue? I find it absurd and we should be making far stronger representations—I urge the Minister to do that.

When a man goes out of a house, whether he be a father, a husband or a son, there is no guarantee that he will come back and what state he will come back in. We have seen beatings taking place. We have seen videos on YouTube, Facebook and other social media of people being summarily beaten up in the streets—they are held by a disproportionate number of military personnel and beaten to within an inch of their life. They are tortured and taken away; people go missing. In some instances, when they go missing, they do not come back. That is a serious issue.

Children in Kashmir have no stake in their normal community or society. We expect our children to have a proper education in normal society, but Kashmiri children do not have an ounce of the protection needed in order to have that. As my hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham South (Lilian Greenwood) said, when they go out into the streets they are greeted with pellets and such like. They have no proper education facilities and no healthcare. They have no real stake in the society that they are part of, and the generations go forward: this is the sixth generation of Kashmiris growing up under this tyranny and they have no protection whatsoever.

The pellet gun issue that my hon. Friend raised is about a horrendous act by the military. They have not just fired these guns to warn off crowds; they have specifically targeted the upper body of individuals. They have aimed at the face and at the eyes, and a number of people have lost their eyesight. Aiming these guns at the upper body means that people cannot even receive medical treatment, because the medical people will not use a scan on them as magnets are used when a body is scanned and so a scan would further assist the movement of the metallic pellets inside the person. That might lead to further injury, be it in their head, eyes or upper body, including their heart, arteries and so on. That would cause a significant problem for most people.

Those are the issues involved with the use of pellet guns. When someone is penetrated by these pellets and they go through a security barrier, it is easy to assess that they have been involved in these sorts of activities and so they will be pulled out, again to be held accountable. We are talking about torture of a whole community and of a whole society. A report entitled “BURIED EVIDENCE: Unknown, Unmarked, and Mass Graves in Indian-Administered Kashmir” has been produced by the International People’s Tribunal on Human Rights and Justice in Kashmir. It was written by Angana Chatterji, a well-known human rights activist, whose report deals with a significant number of mass graves that she has found, through her organisation. Unfortunately, no notice is taken by anybody. No notice is taken by any Government—our Government in particular. If this was to happen anywhere else, there would be a huge outcry, with people clamouring for international war crimes tribunals to be held and for these things to be dealt with.

I appreciate that we have an urgent debate to come after this and that a significant number of colleagues wish to speak, so I wish to conclude by saying that this is about the abuse of human rights and civil liberties, and the contravention of the Geneva convention. I would like the Minister to take note of those three important things when he sums up, and to say what he is going to do about it and how he will have an interaction with the Indian Government to hold them to account. If India wants to be a serious trade partner with the UK, these are the responsibilities it must carry. These issues are very important to my constituents and to all of us in this place, so it must ensure that that is considered and taken forward.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

Oral Answers to Questions

Khalid Mahmood Excerpts

Tuesday 10th January 2017 Commons Chamber

[Boris Johnson]

Absolutely—I am very happy to give that assurance to my hon. Friend. As he will know, there are parliamentary bodies of one party or another that have links with sister parties across the continent, and we will do absolutely everything we can to promote that in the years ahead.

[Mr Khalid Mahmood (Birmingham, Perry Barr) (Lab)]

On behalf of Labour Members, may I pay tribute to the long and distinguished career of Sir Ivan Rogers? He served successive Governments with great distinction, and most of the Secretary of State’s predecessors had the good sense to appreciate it; it is a pity that he could not do so until just now when my hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham East (Chris Leslie) managed to press him. In his resignation letter, Sir Ivan said:

“Contrary to the beliefs of some, free trade does not just happen”.

Can the Secretary of State explain who Sir Ivan had in mind?

Oral Answers to Questions

Khalid Mahmood Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd November 2016 Commons Chamber

[Boris Johnson]

My hon. Friend raises the issue of the support of the former Prime Minister. I am tempted to say “Nec tali auxilio, nec defensoribus istis” when it comes to our campaign. My hon. Friend is completely right: there is a huge opportunity not only for a deep and comprehensive deal with our friends and partners in the EU, but to seek new free trade deals around the world, and for this country to become once again the global champion and agitator for free trade.

[Mr Khalid Mahmood (Birmingham, Perry Barr) (Lab)]

In between insulting the Italian Foreign Minister last week, showing that he has no understanding of the treaty of Rome, saying that he would not pressure Turkey over the death penalty and having a major bust-up with the head of the European People’s party, the Foreign Secretary managed to make one serious announcement. He told the Czech media that Britain would retain free trade with Europe, while leaving the customs union. Is that now the Government’s proposed plan and how does the Foreign Secretary intend to achieve it?

[Boris Johnson]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his question, but I must direct him to the answer that I have already given, which is that the Prime Minister has set out very clearly in her speeches and remarks what we hope to achieve, and I think it eminently achievable. Contrary to the impression that the hon. Gentleman sought to give, more and more of our friends and partners around the EU are seeing the merits of what is being proposed, and more and more are excited. The hon. Gentleman asked about relations, so let me tell him that relations are excellent and getting warmer—not just in the EU, but around the world.

Oral Answers to Questions

Khalid Mahmood Excerpts

Tuesday 18th October 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Ellwood]

The hon. Gentleman touches on a very serious matter that is challenging, to say the least. The UNDP recognises that once the liberation of Mosul takes place, refugees will flood out of the capital city in different directions, including into Kurdistan. When I visited, the camps were not in place. The refugees were in schools, preventing the beginning of the school curriculum in September. We pay tribute to the work of Kurdistan. Indeed, much in our DFID programmes has gone to support refugees in that part of Iraq.

[Mr Khalid Mahmood (Birmingham, Perry Barr) (Lab)]

The effort to free all areas of Iraq from Daesh control is fully supported on the Labour Benches. The ongoing effort to retake Mosul will play a vital role in that strategy. How does the Minister plan to ensure that the civilian population will be protected from the fighting and that civilians fleeing Mosul will receive the humanitarian help that they need?

[Mr Ellwood]

As I mentioned, the UNDP is co-ordinating all aspects of the UN. Working with the Iraqis, it is taking the lead on the stabilisation and reconstruction of the city. Prime Minister Abadi has made it clear that no peshmerga—no Kurdish forces—or Shi’ite mobilisation forces should enter the city. This is a predominantly Sunni city and it should be liberated initially by Sunni Iraqi forces. A civilian-trained police force will provide important security after that.

Daesh: Syria/Iraq

Khalid Mahmood Excerpts

Wednesday 16th December 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hammond]

As my hon. Friend is well aware from his visit, we are providing direct support, training and mentoring to Kurdish forces in Iraq. At present, we do not carry out that kind of activity with the Kurdish forces in Syria. Frankly, Kurdish forces in Syria have demonstrated their fighting capabilities and the adequacy of their supply lines and training arrangements.

[Mr Khalid Mahmood (Birmingham, Perry Barr) (Lab)]

Is the Foreign Secretary not concerned that the further involvement of tribal groups and others such as the Muslim Brotherhood and some al-Qaeda groups will lead to further conflict, as we have already seen in Libya? Is not the best way forward to engage with the 34-member group that Saudi Arabia is putting together, with our coalition, to have the people and troops to deal with this problem properly and realistically, rather than by using wishful thinking?

[Mr Hammond]

I do not think that the two are mutually exclusive. It may be possible in the future, once we have established a transitional Government in Syria, to rally diverse opposition forces against Daesh, alongside what is left of the Syrian army—possibly supported by specialist interventions from members of the 34 Muslim nation coalition, special forces, logistics, targeters, military intelligence analysts and so forth. That is probably the most effective model that we can put together.

Palestine

Khalid Mahmood Excerpts

Monday 1st December 2014 Westminster Hall

[Mr Khalid Mahmood (Birmingham, Perry Barr) (Lab)]

It is always a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Brooke. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Easington (Grahame M. Morris) for securing the debate, and I add my thanks to all those who signed the petition to enable us to have this debate.

We are all aware of the action in Gaza during the summer months, its effects on the people of Gaza and all the buildings that were destroyed. Before I go any further, to pre-empt any interventions, I condemn the actions of Hamas. However, I also have to condemn the disproportionate action of the Israel defence forces. When we consider the number of people—young children and civilians—who were killed during that action, we must all recognise that such disproportionate action does not allow any sort of peace process to take place. There are key issues following that action, such as the implementation of and support for the UN mechanism to facilitate the importing and use of construction materials in Gaza. There are problems surrounding agreement from Israel to allow unimpeded entry into Gaza for humanitarian goods and personnel. Urgent progress must be made on providing the people of Gaza with access to electricity and water, which are still not in place following the conflict.

The vote that was taken in this place on the recognition of Palestine has been mentioned, and the right hon. Member for Rutland and Melton (Sir Alan Duncan)—I was going to call him my right hon. Friend—

[Sir Alan Duncan]

That will do.

[Mr Mahmood]

It is close enough. He talked about the issues surrounding that vote. I think that the people in Israel who are hellbent on taking such action need to recognise the strength of that vote. The old dynamics are changing significantly, because the former controls on news and media have changed significantly. People have much more control of the media and the reports that they receive, and they are much better able to decide for themselves what they believe is right and what they believe is wrong. If Israel is genuine about its position, it needs to pay heed to that. Other countries, such as France, are looking to take votes similar to the one that we have taken. It does not help anybody’s cause for the current position to continue. Unless Israel is prepared to move forward and deal with the problems, we will not get to where we want to be. As my—

[Annette Brooke (in the Chair)]

Order.

Kashmir

Khalid Mahmood Excerpts

Thursday 11th September 2014 Westminster Hall

[Mr Ward]

I was approached by someone who said that the separatists should be fully engaged in the elections.

[Mr Khalid Mahmood (Birmingham, Perry Barr) (Lab)]

The right hon. Member for Bexhill and Battle (Gregory Barker) mentioned the elections. The real issue was, how many international and European Union observers—indeed, observers of any kind—were allowed in during the elections to verify the figure that he just provided.

[Mr Ward]

I raised the issue of participation in elections. The answer was that the elections are not trusted and that there is no confidence in them being fair.

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[Mr Khalid Mahmood (Birmingham, Perry Barr) (Lab)]

It is always a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hollobone. I welcome my right hon. Friend the Member for Warley (Mr Spellar), who will respond on behalf of the Opposition. I also welcome Barrister Sultan Mahmood, who is in the Public Gallery. He has been working on the matter for about 30 years—as long as I have been—and he has always tried to convey a fair perspective on the situation, which is what we need in order to resolve it. We need more people like him to do that.

After the hon. Member for Bradford East (Mr Ward) opened the debate, my hon. Friend the Member for Brent North (Barry Gardiner) spoke about Edmund Burke. I will try to plough a furrow through the middle of those contributions and see if I can achieve some sort of balance. I think that we are somewhat sidestepping the real problem by talking about self-determination. The real problem is that, for the past 70 years, while we have talked about whether we want self-determination, whether we want to be with India, whether we want to be with Pakistan or whether somebody wants to go off with China, the people of Kashmir—particularly Jammu Kashmir—have been suffering. They have suffered an immense amount of difficulty, torture and instability. As my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Ladywood (Shabana Mahmood) has said, rather than trying to take sides in the debate, we need to look at the people who currently have no rights.

Members have raised significant issues, including the size of the Indian army in Jammu and Kashmir. We need to consider how many armed forces personnel are there, what their duties are and what they are about to do. Why is it that, when a male member of a family leaves his home in Jammu Kashmir, his wife, sisters and mother are left wondering whether he will come back, whether he will ever be found again or whether he will return having been tortured and perhaps maimed for life? Why is it that, when a female member of a family leaves home, the rest of the family is left wondering whether she will return with her dignity fully intact, if indeed she manages to return at all? People face those significant issues day in, day out. We must support those people, as they are the ones who most deserve our support.

As has been mentioned, mass graves are a significant issue. There is not enough time to talk about that. Amnesty International and a number of Indian non-governmental organisations have looked at that issue and say that 10,000 people have been buried in mass graves. A barrister, Parvez Imroz, has been working hard on the issue. He estimates that at least 8,000 non-combatants have disappeared.

People have said that India is a democracy, but democracies should be open to investigation. Why has there still been no investigation by the Indian Government to try to address the issue? As has been mentioned, the Indian armed forces have special powers in Jammu and Kashmir. Why have no military personnel been tried in that area? In 2012, the United Nations said that the Indians have draconian laws, which is not acceptable in a democratic state. India professes to be democratic, so it should act as a democratic state and not have such laws.

If we want to support people in Jammu and Kashmir, they must be allowed the right to a health service that looks after them. They need a proper education service in order to grow and move forward. They need a proper structure of devolved government. Scotland has been given the right to hold a referendum. Such a referendum can take place in Kashmir only if the people of Kashmir have those basic, natural rights. They also need a transparent and accountable political structure. A lot has been said about the forthcoming elections in Jammu and Kashmir. Will proper United Nations, European Union and Inter-Parliamentary Union observers go there to see the transparency and openness of those elections for themselves so that we can stand in this place and quote the figures openly and honestly? It is important for us to look at such things.

We must provide a stable economic structure for the people of Kashmir so that they are able to deal with those things. People keep talking about the armies of Pakistan and India, but the real issue is that there have been a number of serious skirmishes on the border, and if we allow those skirmishes to continue, what happened in 2003 will happen again. There will be brinkmanship followed by a state of war between two regional nuclear powers, which is not what we want.

In order to move forward on these serious issues, we need to address the human rights and civil liberties of the people who are stuck in the region through no fault of their own and who only want to have a proper, decent life. They want to be able to move forward, so we need to do that. It has already been tried. When General Pervez Musharraf was President of Pakistan, a number of confidence-building measures were put in place between India and Pakistan. We need to put some of those measures back in place, but above all we need to consider the people of Kashmir. We must speak to them and let their voices be heard. Ultimately, whatever their religion, they are Kashmiri, and we should support them and ensure that they have the civic right to live their own life in that country.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (in the Chair)]

As a reward for those Members who have not yet been called, rather unusually, I accept, I will raise the time limit to nine minutes.

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[Bob Blackman]

I will not give way, as we do not have injury time.

As has been mentioned, there is democracy in Jammu and Kashmir. There is actually a Muslim majority, and as the hon. Member for Brent North said, they voted overwhelmingly in the elections and came up with a decisive result. It may not be the one everyone wants, but it was decisive. When we debate such issues just as Jammu and Kashmir is about to go to the polls, the risk is that we inflame tensions between the communities. We should understand the position of the various groups. The Shi’a Muslims do not support the right of self-determination, and nor do the Gujjars and Bakarwals, Buddhists, Hindi Dogras, Kashmiri Pandits, Sikhs or Christians. The only issue is that part of the Muslim population support it; but they are a minority. Far from wanting secession, either to Pakistan or as a separate state, the vast majority of people in the state want it to remain part of India. I have a solution to the problem, which is that the Pakistani forces illegally occupying part of Kashmir should leave and unite Jammu and Kashmir as one state under the auspices of India, and then it should be decided what is to happen.

The Hindu Pandits were forced out in a process of ethnic cleansing. The reports that I hear give a figure of 700,000 of them still living in refugee camps having been forced out. It would be ridiculous to reward those who engaged in ethnic cleansing—

[Mr Khalid Mahmood]

rose—

[Bob Blackman]

I will not give way.

It would be ridiculous to reward those people by saying, “We will get rid of all the people who might vote the wrong way, and then have a plebiscite.” It is absurd to represent the question in that way.

There are humanitarian matters in the conflict that need to be concluded. The victims are the Pandits who were forced out of their homes and the women who were forced at the point of a gun to convert from Hinduism to Islam, and were left to suffer. The populations in Jammu and Kashmir trust the secular state of India, which of course has a growing Muslim population, and Sikh and Christian populations, to administer their country rather more than they trust a predominantly Muslim Pakistani Administration. Minority groups in Pakistan—Hindus, Christians, Sikhs and others—are deliberately persecuted and they suffer at the hands of the Government.

It is now some 25 years since the worst atrocities in the Kashmir valley, when Hindus were driven out by the Islamic fundamentalists. We should be on the side of the people who suffered and make sure that the people who are in exile have the right to return to the homes that they occupied for centuries. Without doubt, that is the position we should take. I look forward to hearing the Minister say that this country stands full square behind the Indian Government and army, to ensure that there is peace and stability in the region.

[Stephen Pound (Ealing North) (Lab)]

The hon. Member for Wolverhampton South West (Paul Uppal) bemoaned the preponderance of white, middle-aged males. Thus, I rise with some trepidation and I can only offer an apology—there are some things that I am capable of changing and there are some things that are beyond that.

When I was being lobbied this morning by my appropriately named constituent, Amarjit Jammu, she asked me whether I would be her voice in this afternoon’s debate. I am happy to be that and the voice of many other people. If there is one thing that we have established early on in this debate, it is that it is a debate of entire legitimacy. To say that this issue is something of which we should not speak is wrong; however, to say that it is something that we could inflame is a matter that we must consider. Whether we have a constituency interest in this matter, have a birth line connected to the region or are simple humanitarians—citizens of this planet—we have a duty, an obligation and a right to debate, discuss and speak about these issues.

I commend the quality of the speakers today. My hon. Friend the Member for Rochdale (Simon Danczuk) spoke extremely movingly from his personal constituency experience. However, the contribution of my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Ladywood (Shabana Mahmood) was quite simply one of the finest speeches I have heard in Westminster Hall, if not in this House; not only does she speak from a Mirpuri background, as well as with knowledge and understanding, but she speaks with a cool humanity and decency, while looking to the future positively. I found that immensely impressive.

My hon. Friend also mentioned in passing—a few other speakers have mentioned it—the sheer heart-stopping, dazzling beauty of Kashmir. What an utter tragedy it is that this place, this heaven on Earth, is at the moment scarred by this bloody conflict. My hon. Friend the Member for Brent North (Barry Gardiner) and I have visited Kashmir on two or three occasions. We have been on Dal lake and seen the cedar houseboats bobbing silently and unused by the sides of the lake, which should be one of the great tourist attractions of the world. We have also seen Gulmarg, and even the 100 Pipers whisky distillery nestling in the highlands, as well as St Andrew’s church. Overwhelmingly, what we have seen in Kashmir is a place that is the reflection of God in its beauty, but also where there is horror, sadness and tragedy. In addition to the places I have mentioned, there is the plateau, Kargil and the line of control. There is a frozen conflict, taking place in temperatures many degrees below zero, in one of the most inhospitable places on Earth.

Can we nail, once and for all, the suggestion that the Indian army would be in this place—where soldiers can only serve for 12 hours at a time before they have to be evacuated, before being moved back in again—if it were not for the fact that if they were not there the cross-border problem would be so serious, damaging and cataclysmic? Their presence is absolutely essential. Soldiers do not fight, or stand guard on watchtowers, in sub-zero temperatures and in such an inhospitable environment unless it is utterly essential. That is why the Indian army is there.

We have an answer; we have the Simla agreement of 1972. One of the most important things that we can do today is to recognise the good that is being done in Kashmir. There is some movement towards rapprochement and we should hail that movement.

Some years ago—I think it was in 2002 or 2003—my hon. Friend the Member for Brent North visited Chief Minister Mufti Mohammad Sayeed. I well remember that the economic issues in Kashmir then were the preponderant ones. His daughter, Mehbooba Mufti, was working on a hydro-electric project then to provide free energy to some villages from Kashmir’s ample—indeed, massive—and wonderful supply of fast-flowing waters. It was that type of issue that mattered. One thing that must arise from this debate is not only a recognition of this most tragic of long-standing conflicts but the need to consider—not only from our perspective in this country but, I hope, from the perspective of the EU—offering assistance in nation-building, including providing economic support, assistance and advice.

Let us look at the positives. The devastating and horrendous floods in the region have been mentioned many times, as has the reaction of the Indian Government. On his recent visit to Jammu and Kashmir, Prime Minister Narendra Modi has shown the hand of friendship in a most conciliatory way. His letter of 7 September to Nawaz Sharif, offering all possible assistance in the region, is one of the most important developments in Indian-Pakistan relations. The fact that Prime Minister Modi invited Prime Minister Sharif to his inauguration has already been mentioned. That is the hand of friendship being offered. It is a move towards two great nations coming together, and not—as in the past—in a confrontational way.

Let us never forget the wise words of my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Perry Barr (Mr Mahmood), when he spoke earlier. Quite rightly, he reminded the House that this is not simply a territorial or localised dispute; this is a dispute that has led us twice—twice—to the edge of nuclear war. It is that important; in fact, we would be derelict in our duty in this House if we did not discuss this matter.

We must give credit where it is due. I make no bones about it: I have visited Narendra Modi. I am sorry to keep mentioning my hon. Friend the Member for Brent North—Members must have the impression that he and I have spent most of our time travelling the world together, which is not true at all—but we visited Narendra Modi. When I think of Narendra Modi’s reputation in the early days, compared with the conciliatory peacemaker that we now see today, it is quite extraordinary. That approach of friendship and bilateral resolution to the problem—assisted, advised, supported and endorsed by other democratic institutions—represents the best way forward.

[Mr Khalid Mahmood]

Will my hon. Friend confirm, unlike the hon. Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman), that wherever there are human rights abuses—India, Pakistan, China, wherever—they should be investigated, and investigated properly?

[Stephen Pound]

I am happy to respond to my hon. Friend by saying: precisely so. Of course that should be the case. Equally, however, we must look at the solution. I make no apologies for returning to the contribution by my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Ladywood. I sincerely hope that her words are studied in Islamabad and Delhi, because they were the wisest and most sensible words we have heard today. We have not yet heard from the Minister—he may exceed them—but we should take those words with us from this meeting, because they are the words of someone who knows more about this subject than almost anyone else here in Westminster Hall, and who sees a future and a positive way forward.

This has been an extraordinarily well informed, well attended and well supported debate; it is a tribute to those constituents and friends who have contacted us about this issue that there has been such a good turnout today. I freely give credit to the hon. Member for Bradford East (Mr Ward) for quite rightly feeling the temperature of the House and calling this debate today and to the Backbench Business Committee for endorsing it.

Let this debate not be remembered as one of recrimination, point-scoring and finger-pointing. Let it mark the point at which we start to look forward to a brighter tomorrow, and move towards a coming-together of two democratic nations that we in this country have very close ties and links with, and that I hope we will always support. Then, may the people of Jammu and Kashmir—that beautiful but benighted part of the world—enjoy the peace and civilised society that they more than deserve and that is too long overdue.

Middle East and North Africa

Khalid Mahmood Excerpts

Thursday 17th July 2014 Westminster Hall

[Alistair Burt]

Unsurprisingly, I have a short passage in my speech relating to Kurdish issues, and I think my hon. Friend will find that I address one or two of those points.

I have a particular relationship with the UAE through my current chairmanship of the all-party group on the UAE, and through a connection with my very good friend, the deputy Foreign Minister of the UAE, Dr Anwar Gargash; I commend such a relationship to my hon. Friend the Minister. The UAE belies some of the easy and rather lazy descriptions that the uninformed make about the Gulf. This is a state where women hold very senior positions; for example, the ambassador to the UN and the Minister in charge of the extraordinary Dubai 2020 Expo are women. It is also a state where people can go to church; I went to church on my last visit to Abu Dhabi.

The UAE is also a state whose prosperity relationship with the UK is singularly important. We will contribute to British firms going to Expo 2020. There is also investment by the Emirates in the UK: the £1.5 billion investment by Dubai’s DP World in London Gateway; Masdar, Abu Dhabi’s energy company, is investing more than £500 million in the London Array, the world’s largest offshore wind farm; and the Abu Dhabi United Group is working beyond London in Manchester, through its connection with Manchester City football club, to encourage the regeneration of the city. Again, I profess a special interest, having been the Minister with responsibility for Manchester and Salford many years ago; seeing the regeneration of that great city has been one of the great highlights of the past 20 years. All that activity shows that the UAE is working with and investing in the UK, which enhances the relationship between the two countries.

Wherever we look around the Gulf, particularly in a state such as the UAE, we see a close partner working together with the UK. I emphasise that point because whatever direction the FCO now goes in, it is very important that the middle east and the Gulf remain uppermost in its mind. I am sure my hon. Friend the Minister will be keen to ensure that that is the case.

Briefly, please do not forget the middle east. Stick with those states that are working through the Arab spring and working with the Arab Partnership. Stick with Libya—it is difficult. Stick with Egypt, which will be a key partner, even though it will inevitably go through difficulties. It has serious human rights and judicial issues to overcome, but its economy needs support if the country is to get anywhere with its democracy. Egypt’s parliamentary elections later this year will be keenly scrutinised to ensure that they are fully inclusive. Certainly, the state has questions to answer, as we all know, but it will be a key partner for the future and in increasing the prosperity of the region as a whole.

In a final point on the values that we hold dear, let me mention that throughout the region religious intolerance and ensuring that there is greater freedom of worship and conscience is another important issue that I am sure the FCO will address. I know that one or two colleagues here today will talk about that specifically

I had the honour yesterday of meeting two young women from Iran who had been imprisoned in Tehran in 2009 for being Christian believers. Maryam Rostampour and Marziyeh Amirizadeh are now free in the United States. They have written about their experiences and make the point that although a rapprochement in Iran in many ways has advantages for all of us, to neglect human rights issues in Iran would be a mistake. They also make the point that it is not only Christians who are suffering; so are Baha’is and others. We know that across the region the agonies caused by differences between Muslim sects have been reflected in the pressures on those of other faiths and of none. I am certain that a greater sense of religious tolerance throughout the region is a value that the UK and this Parliament would strongly profess, and again I urge my hon. Friend the Minister to make that a key part of his work in the region.

Before I sit down, I will address two major issues briefly: first, Syria and, secondly, Gaza. With Syria, it seems that we have a very short attention span for tragedy. One has to do a little bit of searching now in the newspapers to find out that the agony of Syria is continuing. In three years perhaps 160,000 people have been killed, although there are estimates of many more. There is a need to ensure that the truth of what is happening in Syria comes out, rather than a narrative produced by the Syrian regime.

In short, Assad would have us all believe that right from the beginning he was challenged not by his own people but by foreign extremists. That is untrue. There were no foreign extremists on the streets of Damascus when the first brave people asked not for his overthrow but for reform. They were met with torture and violence, and with a deliberate campaign to ensure that more extremists came into the country from outside, because Assad knew that his greatest chance of staying in power was to convince the outside world that he was threatened by terrorists from outside and not from his own country. Sadly, that narrative has had all too much opportunity to succeed.

[Mr Khalid Mahmood (Birmingham, Perry Barr) (Lab)]

Will the right hon. Gentleman acknowledge that while that uprising took place, there was a serious element of the Muslim Brotherhood within Syria that was promoting much of the violence that took place, as well as the regime’s violence?

[Alistair Burt]

Disentangling all the various elements of Syria is not an easy job. Disentangling the issues of the Muslim Brotherhood is, of course, a matter that now concerns the UK greatly as it pursues its review of the impact of the Muslim Brotherhood not only on places abroad but on the UK itself. There are different views on whether the Muslim Brotherhood represents a spectrum of opinion, or whether there is a very hard, almost fascistic edge to it in what it wishes to achieve—certainly, there are places and evidence that back that up, and places where it is not sufficiently proved. Nevertheless, the hon. Gentleman is right to raise that as an issue that deserves to be looked at in the Syrian context.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Khalid Mahmood (Birmingham, Perry Barr) (Lab)]

It is, as always, a privilege to be under your chairmanship, Mr Sheridan. I thank the right hon. Member for North East Bedfordshire (Alistair Burt) for securing this important debate. I realise that he originally intended to cover a far greater area, which is hugely necessary. I support that. The debate needs to be far wider, because there are issues in the rest of the area that need a serious hearing. That would be useful.

I start by paying tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Northfield (Richard Burden), who has been diligent in his approach to this issue for a long time, even before I came to this place. I also pay tribute to his persistence in trying to act as an honest broker to achieve things. Unfortunately, for a long period, we have not been very successful in doing so.

Let me make it clear that I wholly and unreservedly condemn Hamas attacks and rocket launches. There is absolutely no justification for that, and it should not be a way of trying to move forward. However, the right hon. Member for North East Bedfordshire said that there was no disproportionate action by the Israeli Government and the Israel Defence Forces. I beg to differ. I think that significantly disproportionate action has been taken by the IDF and the Israeli Government, and that there is a significant difference in what is going on, particularly in terms of the hardware available to the IDF: their military air, ground and sea power, and the technology of the Iron Dome missile protection shield.

All that is fine. It is protection, and in defence terms, that is needed. However, defence becomes aggression when people are targeted and restricted to living in a limited area, and then told, “We’ll tap you on the roof to tell you that if you don’t leave, there will be a missile to follow, and you’ll be obliterated.” It becomes difficult for a huge populace squashed into a small land mass. The area is under lockdown. People here have called it a prison, and I do not disagree with that description. The people there have no access by sea or air, and no real access by land. We have discussed how we can get people to move out. Sometimes, even when it happens, four children playing on a beach get killed, so where do those people go?

[Jim Shannon]

I appreciate the point the hon. Gentleman is making. I think he is aware, like others in this House, that Hamas has used civilians as cover for its activities. I am sure he condemns that as well.

[Mr Mahmood]

I have no problem condemning it, but I will come to that point later.

A lot of statistics have been bandied about today, particularly by the hon. Member for Brigg and Goole (Andrew Percy), who is not in his place at the moment. I will give a few statistics as well. According to current figures from the United Nations, 77% of Palestinian fatalities so far have been civilians, which raises concerns about respect for international humanitarian law. Some 23 medical facilities and 81 schools have been damaged by shelling; 214 Palestinians have been killed, including at least 164 civilians, of whom 44 were children and 29 women; 1,585 Palestinians have been injured, of whom 435 are children and 282 are women; 1,660 homes have been destroyed or severely damaged, directly displacing 9,900 persons.

We have been talking about people’s ability to move out of that confined space in a difficult area. Whether Hamas uses people as human shields has been mentioned. The problem is that there is no real civil or policing structure left in the area to get hold of what Hamas does. That is the result of continuous bombing of police stations and civil buildings even before Hamas came into power, when the Palestine Liberation Organisation was in control. In a way, that policy allowed Hamas to come to power, by continually weakening the authority that wanted to talk and move forward. Day in, day out, their existence was continually eroded. Then Hamas, for all its ills, was elected. That is what happens when people cannot respond to their situation: they turn to what they feel can get them out of it. What happens in those circumstances is an issue.

The people in that area have no choice. We insist that the UN place people in there to protect the people and do something about it. We should speak to the Arab League and say, “You put some people in there, so we can at least have some sort of stability for the people in the area,” because ultimately, it is they who suffer as a consequence. We try to go back to the peace process. For too long, I have heard about the idea of the peace process. We have not had a proper negotiation at any stage about the peace process. That will not and cannot happen, purely because the settlements continue and the Israeli Government have erected the wall, and because of their treatment of the right of the Palestinian population there to life and a decent standard of civil liberties. Until that is addressed, we will never get to a position where things can be dealt with positively and we can have recourse to a settlement between the two peoples.

We all say that a two-state solution is right—that the Israelis and the Palestinians should both have the right to exist—but how do we bring that into being? We are just talking nonsense, by and large. That is not practical in view of what is going on, until somebody has the gall to stand up to Israel and say, “Look, if you want to sort this out, we have to have new measures and new ways of looking at this. Overreaction to what is going on in Gaza is not a way forward and will not help us.”

Gaza

Khalid Mahmood Excerpts

Monday 14th July 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

This is likely to require a more peaceful situation and a much better atmosphere than the one that prevails now. But in any such atmosphere, we will continue to advocate that Israel should ease restrictions on Gaza, including on the movement of commercial goods. I listed what we have done in terms of humanitarian relief and said that the Department for International Development stands ready to do more. The UK will remain in the forefront of providing humanitarian relief to the Palestinian people.

[Mr Khalid Mahmood (Birmingham, Perry Barr) (Lab)]

If I wholly and unreservedly condemn attacks by Hamas, will the right hon. Gentleman wholly and unreservedly condemn the excessive force used by the Israeli Government in targeting residential areas in Gaza, resulting in the indiscriminate killing of civilians—women, men and young children—which is clearly a grave breach of the Geneva convention, while we wait for the middle east process to kick off?

[Mr Hague]

It is important for all of us, on all sides of the argument—I think there is a strong consensus here on the need for a peace process and to break this cycle of violence—to deplore violence and the murder of innocent civilians on all sides. That is what I have done in my statement. That is the clear sentiment, of course, across the House. We want to see a situation where Israel is not subject to rocket attacks from Gaza and Palestinians in Gaza are not subject to Israeli airstrikes in retaliation. That is what we are trying to bring about.

Syria: anti-Government Forces

Khalid Mahmood Excerpts

Monday 4th March 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Swire]

Indeed. I have seen UNRWA’s work at close hand in the past, and a very excellent job it does.

I think that the United Kingdom has a good story to tell. Our total funding for Syria and the region now stands at £139.5 million, and will provide humanitarian aid such as food, medical care, blankets and clean drinking water for hundreds of thousands of people in Syria and, critically, in the region. That is something that I feel the House should applaud.

[Mr Khalid Mahmood (Birmingham, Perry Barr) (Lab)]

Is the Minister aware that a number of Syrian, Kurdish and Muslim extremists are travelling to Syria to join the rebellion and fight along with al-Qaeda? What steps is he taking to prevent that insurgency from extending to the United Kingdom?

[Mr Swire]

The sooner we can bring the situation in Syria to an end, the sooner we can reduce the need for any kind of people to seek to fight on one side or the other. The way in which to do that is to embolden the official opposition, which we are supporting. We hope that these new measures will go some way towards strengthening the opposition and allowing it to position itself as the Government in waiting.