Ukraine

Kevan Jones Excerpts

Monday 20th May 2024 Commons Chamber

[Mr Mitchell]

My right hon. Friend speaks with knowledge and authority on this matter. He will know that the imposition of sanctions is a complex matter, that we have to continually ensure that those who break them are held to account, and that that is an iterative process—I believe that is the correct jargon. I can tell him that we have sanctioned over 2,000 individuals and entities, and that without sanctions Russia would have an extra £400 billion with which to prosecute the war.

[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

I concur with the Chair of the Intelligence and Security Committee, the right hon. Member for New Forest East (Sir Julian Lewis), when he says that this is not just about oil but about sanctions being broken. What more can we do to stop UK and European companies that are quite clearly exporting their products via other countries, particularly Turkey and the Stans, to bypass those sanctions?

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[Mr Lammy]

I know the Deputy Foreign Secretary is doing his best. On the issue of repurposing state assets, we are told, “Just wait, we will get there. We have a G7 meeting, we will get there.” I say to him very gently that we are the country of the rule of law; we do not wait for others to get there. With the City of London, we must be able to do better than this. I put him on notice that if we win the next general election, we will review these powers, because we are determined to see that enforcement happen. If our allies in the United States can do it at speed, this great country can do it at speed as well.

[Mr Kevan Jones]

It is clear from the evidence that many NGOs already have that exports from this country and other parts of Europe go through Turkey, Azerbaijan and China, for example, which are clearly not end-user destinations. Those exports are then being moved to Russia. For example, I am told that Bentley cars are still available in Moscow. If that is the case, where are they being exported through? Quite clearly, it will be places such as China and Azerbaijan.

[Mr Lammy]

My right hon. Friend conveys the loophole after loophole that countless journalists have pointed out, and that countless members of the public can see. The Deputy Foreign Secretary knows that it is rather embarrassing, when we are in Ukraine with people who are putting their lives on the line, that it is still happening. We have to crack it, we can crack it, and I hope that we will now crack it at speed.

Thirdly, does the Deputy Foreign Secretary agree that we have to boost defence industrial production? The shadow Defence Secretary, my right hon. Friend the Member for Wentworth and Dearne, has returned to this subject over and over again. The £2 billion for restocking Ukraine and our armed forces must be fast-tracked. The UK’s defence industrial strategy must be rebooted to grow our defence base at home and drive collaboration with our allies. In particular, United Kingdom and Ukrainian defence companies should be launching new programmes at this time to jointly supply the most advanced technology to both our countries.

This election year, the Labour party is committed to taking the politics out of support for Ukraine. I push the Deputy Foreign Secretary and the Government on these issues in a spirit of working together, and we will remain determined to work together on this issue. He will have sensed that these questions are coming from both sides of the House. We will stand with Ukraine for as long as it takes to win. That is our commitment from the Labour Benches. We are determined that Vladimir Putin will not get his way.

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[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

Let me begin by echoing the sentiments across the House for those supporting the fight in Ukraine against Russia’s unjust and illegal attack on that sovereign nation. I also pay tribute to the work of our NATO allies to support the people of Ukraine and, above all, to the tenacity and dedication of the people of Ukraine in resisting this totally unjust invasion.

We must remember that this is not the first invasion of Ukraine. In 2014 Russia annexed Crimea and was engaged in a proxy war for nearly eight years in the Donbas to try to weaken the territorial integrity of Ukraine. This invasion is clearly a war of choice by Vladimir Putin, though we can have all the excuses under the sun why he undertook this reckless action. What we sadly heard from the right hon. Member for Gainsborough (Sir Edward Leigh) was basically straight out of the Putin playbook. My hon. Friend the Member for Leeds North West (Alex Sobel) eloquently spelt out the truth of the ancient history of the integrity of Ukraine as a nation, and debunked the Moscow-centric nonsense that Russia has a right to dominate and dictate what goes on around its borders.

If the right hon. Member for Gainsborough wants to be brought a little further up to date rather than hear the ancient history eloquently portrayed by my hon. Friend, let me tell him that when the Soviet Union was disbanded, Ukraine had a third of the Soviet arsenal of nuclear weapons. It declared itself a state in 1990, joined the non-proliferation treaty and signed the Lisbon pact in 1992 to give up those nuclear weapons. The United States, Russia and ourselves, in the Budapest memorandum on security assurances of 1994, guaranteed the integrity of Ukraine’s borders. The present Russian leadership may get into the semantics that it has always been part of Russia—clearly it is not—but it gave an assurance in 1994 that Ukraine was an independent nation. I ask people to read the history rather than listen to the podcasts. If there is one thing that it demonstrates, it is how effective Russia’s propaganda machine has been. We saw that in the 2014 invasion of Crimea when, suddenly, even people who should know better in the national newspapers in this country were writing that Crimea had always been part of Russia. I ask people not to fall for the propaganda.

Can Ukraine resist? Yes, it can. It has had a fantastic, valiant fight so far, but it can do that only with our assistance and that of our allies. Russia has had some 450,000 personnel killed or wounded since 2022. Ukraine liberated Kherson in November 2022, but there has been continued pressure. Russia will go to lengths to put itself on a war footing and to ensure that it keeps chipping away at territory, but at a huge cost to itself. Our strategy must be not just to supply weapons but to crack down on people who are breaking sanctions. We only have to look, not just in this country but in Europe, at the amount of goods being shipped to China, Turkey, Azerbaijan and other countries; clearly, that is not the end destination—they are going into Russia to help the war machine, as has been outlined. It is only with collective will that we will succeed in resisting that aggression.

I am a vice-president of the NATO Parliamentary Assembly, and we—not just the national delegations but the individual Members of Parliament who make up the assembly—have been united in our support for Ukraine since 2022. We first agreed an arrangement with Ukraine as far back as 1991. We have the Ukraine-NATO Interparliamentary Council, which has met on a number of occasions and will meet again this weekend in Sofia in Bulgaria. We are united in our support for Ukraine’s military fight. We are unanimous in our support for its defence of its democracy, and in supplying humanitarian help. This weekend, we will pass another unanimous resolution in support of Ukraine.

To those who say, “What happens if we fail in Ukraine?” I suggest they talk to our fellow parliamentarians in the Baltic states, Poland and the rest of eastern Europe. They are fearful that if Russia gets its own way in Ukraine, they will be next. I had the honour of visiting the three Baltic states last year. Each one is conscious that they are a heartbeat away from their democracy being snuffed out by a Russian invasion, so it is important that we contribute.

On the United Kingdom, I agree with the Deputy Foreign Secretary that there has been cross-party support in this House. That is very important in sending a clear message of support to Ukraine, and a clear message to Russia and others, that we will stand firm against this type of aggression. I have been a little concerned, I have to say, since we got the new Defence Secretary. He is now trying to play politics with this issue, which is a bit sad. A few weeks ago, he challenged the shadow Defence Secretary, my right hon. Friend the Member for Wentworth and Dearne (John Healey), on what he would commit to after the election. He should just grow up and stop playing politics with this issue. It is far too important for that; likewise, the political football kicked around about the £75 billion increase in defence expenditure.

Let us be very clear—I have certainly been very clear in the 23 years I have been in this House—that we do need more defence expenditure, not for the sake of it but to ensure that we work with our NATO allies to help them to resist, and to act as a deterrent. People say, “If you support more defence spending, does that mean you are a warmonger?” No, it does not. I work on the very clear principle that conventional deterrence is just as important as nuclear deterrence. We need to keep arguing that. Someone asked what would happen if we get a new American President next year. I will still be arguing—we should continue to argue—for the importance of the transatlantic European alliance. Ukraine may be a long way away from the United States, but the US has found before that if it does not act early, the cost to the country, including in human life, will be 10 times more, if not more, if it has to defend it in a hot war.

It is important that we work closely with our NATO allies and our European allies, too. I see people pointing fingers around Europe, saying, “This country’s not doing that, that country’s not doing this.” But just look at what Europe as a whole is providing for Ukraine. It is a huge contribution that is certainly on a par with what the United States is giving. It is very important that there is no disruption to the flow of military equipment and humanitarian aid.

Is this a fight for the rules-based order? Yes, it is. I have no doubt about that. If Putin gets his own way in Ukraine, it will be a green light to others who want to use force to inflict their will on the world. We are approaching 6 June, which is the 80th anniversary of D-day. People died on the beaches to preserve the democracy that we all hold very dear. I think we sometimes take that for granted. What has happened in Ukraine has put into clear focus that the democracy and freedom of speech we value is very delicate, but it is certainly worth defending.

NATO Summit: Vilnius

Kevan Jones Excerpts

Thursday 6th July 2023 Westminster Hall

[Alec Shelbrooke (Elmet and Rothwell) (Con)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the NATO Parliamentary Assembly and NATO Summit 2023 in Vilnius.

It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Sharma. I am very grateful for this debate, because it is important that the hard work that goes on across parties gets an airing in the House. To those watching our proceedings, I want to make the point that the NATO Parliamentary Assembly is a genuine, cross-party Assembly where party politics never comes into the discussion. People seek pragmatism. As leader of the United Kingdom delegation, I have the support of the right hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones), who is the deputy leader. That will one day switch, because the Government have the leadership and the Opposition have the deputy leadership, but everybody works very closely together. I also say to those watching that it is a highly experienced delegation; it includes many former Defence Ministers, Ministers of State at the Foreign Office, Secretaries of State and, indeed, hon. and gallant Members, such as my hon. Friend the Member for Colne Valley (Jason McCartney). There is a wide spread and a lot of experience.

I should start by saying what the NATO Parliamentary Assembly is. It was established in 1955 to bring about political accountability. Above all, we are the political body of the allies. We have political discussions about how NATO should move forward, just as we have discussions about defence—most people would envisage NATO as a defence body. Overall, we contribute to several key areas of NATO policy. For instance, the Parliamentary Assembly made a large contribution to the NATO 2030 strategy, which was adopted in Madrid last year.

I chair the Defence and Security Committee, in which allied nations discuss particular defence areas. There is also the Political Committee, the Science and Technology Committee, and the Economics and Security Committee—all important Committees that look at different issues, go to various countries and deal with partner nations as well as allies. They help to form the global image of which NATO needs to be aware. From there, we can feed into and build to summits, such as that one that will take place next week.

As I said, the Parliamentary Assembly is a political body. The importance of soft power cannot be overestimated. The public will often see the high-level dealings of parliamentarians, leaders of countries and Ministers, and that is what gets reported. The leaders have civil servants with them, and everything is pre-arranged. The Assembly has, by its very nature, the advantage that we are all Back Benchers. Those Back Benchers come from all 31 allies and partner nations. That often allows us to build relationships and get into discussions about things that it may be more difficult to discuss at a higher level. For example, I have been in conversations, as have other members, about Sweden’s and Finland’s accession and Türkiye’s concerns. We were able to discuss with our colleagues from Türkiye where the concerns lay.

[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

Does the right hon. Member agree that it was very important, post cold war, that the Assembly was able to bring in associate members from former eastern European countries, and build a political consensus in those countries to be part of the future accession to NATO?

[Alec Shelbrooke]

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for raising that point. He illustrates the political nature of the Assembly, which helped guide those newly formed democracies, as they were starting to flourish and develop in the early days, to ensure that they did not fall off the path to freedom, democracy, free speech and the other things that we recognise as key planks of NATO membership.

We are able to have conversations in the background with colleagues from other ally nations, can feed those back to our Governments, cross-party, and help move discussions forward. It should be recognised that the Swedes made enormous strides in addressing Türkiye’s concerns. The soft power at play in the background at committees should not be underestimated.

I am sure that most Assembly colleagues would agree that the transatlantic relationship remains strong; there is strong support for NATO on Capitol Hill, but our Capitol Hill colleagues tell us that they have to constantly inform and make representations to new colleagues about the importance of NATO and what it does. It would therefore be wrong to say to America deals with that in a bubble. It is important that we show the importance of the relationship between north America and the Canadians, who I will speak more widely about later. This is truly still a North Atlantic Treaty Organisation. The strength of the partnership has served us well for 75 years, and that cannot be overestimated.

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[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

Thank you, Mr Sharma; what a pleasure it is to serve under your chairmanship. I congratulate the right hon. Member for Elmet and Rothwell (Alec Shelbrooke) on securing the debate. May I also say a big thank you to the Members of both Houses who serve on the UK NATO Parliamentary Assembly delegation? As the right hon. Gentleman said, I am the deputy leader of the delegation, and next year NATO will be 75 years of age. It was set up in the dark days after the second world war, with the inspiring leadership in the UK of individuals such as Ernie Bevin coming together to ensure that the horrors that faced us for two generations would never again be visited on Europe. Its fundamental aim was to protect the new rules-based order, democracy and the way of life that we have often come to take for granted.

In 1954, Dwight Eisenhower said:

“We do not keep security establishments merely to defend property or territory or rights abroad or at sea. We keep the security forces to defend a way of life.”

That is as relevant today as it was in 1954. The unprovoked Russian attack on the sovereign nation of Ukraine has brought that to stark attention. Some of the threats that we face are the same, with war sadly returning to the European mainland, but there are also new challenges that were not there 75 years ago, such as cyber, disinformation and new technological developments, which we need to keep ahead of to protect the way of life and democracy that the NATO nations strive to defend. Some people say that NATO is an aggressive alliance. It is not; it is a defensive alliance to protect the values that I have just outlined.

I have been a member of the Assembly since 2017. I am currently also a vice-president, and until recently chaired its Science and Technology Committee. I will attend the summit in Vilnius next week on behalf of the NATO Assembly in my position as one of its vice-presidents. What does NATO face today? Clearly, there is the current threat from Russia in Ukraine, and the defence of the democratic values that I outlined. We need to reiterate our support for Ukraine next week in terms of ensuring success in defeating the unwarranted invasion of a sovereign European nation, and we must focus, as the right hon. Gentleman said, on refreshing our own defence settlements, including the accession of new nations, and ensuring that we not only get security guarantees for Ukraine but have a pathway to it becoming part of NATO.

Next week will be difficult, as it always is, in terms of not only ensuring that we reiterate the arguments for why NATO is important, but, importantly, ensuring that its defence and deterrence capabilities are renewed, to deter those who wish to do us harm. I am very disappointed that we have not had the Command Paper from the UK Government prior to the NATO summit. It seems strange that we will make various commitments next week in Vilnius but will then have a Command Paper that, I am told, will be out towards the end of the month.

There are two aspects next week in Vilnius that the NATO Parliamentary Assembly agreed at its spring session in Luxembourg. The first is a united resolution to continue to support the people and Government of Ukraine, and to make sure that we have more integration between NATO, the EU and NATO partner nations on providing the political, military intelligence, financial, training and humanitarian support for Ukraine to prevail and restore the territorial integrity it needs. It is also about how we up the ante and make sure that the military equipment the Ukrainians require is speedily delivered to them.

The other resolution that we passed and sent to the conference was about the Wagner Group—which has been in the headlines in the past few weeks—highlighting that that is a terrorist and criminal organisation. We also need to look at how we can get more integration, and not just in Europe, because the threats are now wider. How do we respond to China, for example?

[Alec Shelbrooke]

I notice that we have a Foreign Office Minister with us today. Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that the recalcitrance of the Foreign Office about proscribing the Wagner Group is disappointing?

[Mr Jones]

I do. The right hon. Gentleman and I went to the Foreign Office last year, and we know well the lack of interest there in the NATO PA, which is a marked contrast with every other nation represented there.

Another important resolution we have next week follows a commitment by Congressman Gerry Connolly when he was President of the NATO PA. It is about reinforcing the idea that NATO is there to protect democracy and the rules-based order. His suggestion, which was adopted last year, was that we should have a unit within NATO to make sure not only that we talk about democratic values and the rules-based order, but that we can promote them throughout our nations, similar to the way we did that during the cold war. That will be important.

For people who do not understand the Parliamentary Assembly, we have a direct say about what NATO does. I chaired the Science and Technology Committee for four years, and we have a very good relationship with the NATO chief scientist, Dr Bryan Wells, who has taken on board some issues and the reports we did on hypersonics and new technologies, and on ensuring that we can get some of the new technologies distributed across NATO. The Parliamentary Assembly is a valuable forum, because it makes the case for NATO, as well as bringing together parliamentarians from across NATO. As I said, post the cold war, when the Berlin wall came down, the PA was vital for building important relationships between parliamentarians from the former eastern European bloc, so that they could work on their accession strategy for NATO membership, and this was about underpinning the importance of democracy.

I look forward to taking part in the NATO summit in Vilnius next week and being, as we all are on the Parliamentary Assembly, the political and democratic voice of NATO. I think we need to argue more and more for why NATO is important, because it went into abeyance after the cold war. It has now been brought into sharp focus because of what has happened in Ukraine and it is in the public’s consciousness. NATO is not just a military alliance; it is underpinned by democracy. Having parliamentarians as part of that process is an important way of showing that it is a democratic organisation that not only has, at times, difficult discussions but promotes the rules-based order and democracy, against the alternatives of those who would not only do us harm but destroy the system that we have grown to love over the last 70 years.

Integrated Review Refresh

Kevan Jones Excerpts

Monday 13th March 2023 Commons Chamber

[James Cleverly]

We committed to 2.5% of GDP as a sustainable baseline. We announced the additional £5 billion to address the immediate impact of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. As I said, that is on top of the £20 billion uplift announced in 2020 and the over half a billion pounds of new investment announced last year. We will continue to work with our international allies to ensure our collective defence posture is one that genuinely deters aggression against NATO and its member states. We have been successful in doing that, but we will, as this document has done, assess the likely and possible threats and make sure that our defence posture aligns with them.

[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

Having ambition and slogans such as “global Britain” are fine, but without resources behind them they are pretty meaningless. Between 2010 and 2021, the Government cut the defence budget by 16%. A £5 billion increase in the defence budget was announced today—the Prime Minister is trumpeting it all over social media—but the Defence Secretary told the Defence Committee, on which I sit, that he needed 11% just to stand still. It is interesting that he is not here to defend it. Can I ask about the £5 billion? Is the £3 billion for the nuclear deterrent new money or part of the existing £10 billion already put aside for the deterrent? If that leaves £2 billion additional expenditure, that is a long way from the Defence Secretary’s claim that we need 11% just to stand still.

[James Cleverly]

The Secretary of State for Defence was just at the Dispatch Box welcoming the money.

[Mr Jones]

Where is he now?

[James Cleverly]

He has gone to Japan, with which we have recently signed a defence agreement for the next generation of fighter aircraft. The slightly childish and raucous calls from the Opposition Benches would have more impact if it were not for the fact that on the Government Benches we are getting on with building those international defence relationships that will keep us, our neighbours and our friends right across the globe safe.

Ukraine

Kevan Jones Excerpts

Monday 31st October 2022 Commons Chamber

[James Cleverly]

I am sure that my hon. Friend will be unsurprised to hear that we do not discuss future sanctions designations, but the House and my Department will have heard the name he has mentioned and the circumstances in which that sanction might be considered.

[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

I thank the Foreign Secretary for his statement. He mentioned the NLAW—the next-generation light anti-tank weapon—which has been tremendously effective in Ukraine. However, it is also a fact that we have not yet put in a contract for its renewal not only in the stocks of the UK Army but for any future use in Ukraine. Why is that, and when will the contract be signed?

[James Cleverly]

My understanding is that we have given letters of comfort to the NLAW supply chain to stimulate future production. We will, of course, always take action to ensure not only that we are able to support Ukraine in the defence of its homeland but that we do so without detriment to our ability to defend ourselves.

Sanctions

Kevan Jones Excerpts

Monday 28th February 2022 Commons Chamber

[Elizabeth Truss]

Regrettably, my hon. Friend is right; that is the type of action we are seeing being contemplated. Everybody involved, including Putin’s advisers and generals, should be aware that the International Criminal Court is already looking at this and at potential war crimes being committed, and we are urging a full investigation to take place.

[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

I thank the Foreign Secretary for her statement. She talks about a hit list of oligarchs. She knows as well as I do that some of the individuals on that list are well-known and some are not so well known, but the one thing they all have in common is that they have all supported and continue to support Putin’s regime. Will she tell me about the timescale in dealing with some of these individuals? She says that she wants more evidence, but surely we have the evidence against certain of those individuals. What timescale is she talking about for when we will see lists of these individuals being printed and sanctions taken?

[Elizabeth Truss]

We have announced more than 120 businesses and oligarchs who have already been sanctioned. There is a list that we are working through, and we will be announcing more as soon as the evidence is ready.

Sanctions

Kevan Jones Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd February 2022 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lammy]

My hon. Friend is exactly right. I have already seen Ukrainian MPs saying today that they are disappointed that our sanctions regime does not go further.

We have sought to send a unified message across this House and to provide constructive opposition in the national interest. It is in that spirit that we approach today’s announcement. As the Minister knows, while we welcome these measures, we believe that they are too limited and too partial—five banks and just three individuals. The Prime Minister recognised at the Dispatch Box today that this move is a further invasion of Ukraine. It is very hard to square the rhetoric with the reality of these measures.

[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

I have to agree with my right hon. Friend about the limitations of the sanctions on those individuals. However, does he agree that if the regulations’ definition of “involved person”, especially the reference to being

“involved in…obtaining a benefit from or supporting the Government of Russia”,

is interpreted widely with the right political will, it could take in a lot of individuals who have a lot of money salted in the UK, including a lot of the oligarchs who have property or other interests here?

[Mr Lammy]

My right hon. Friend is exactly right: it could, but it needs enforcement and we need to hear more individuals named. The danger in this debate is that the punishment does not befit the crime. I understand the Government’s desire to maintain a broader deterrent against further escalation, but it is also clear that a threshold has been crossed. The gravity of Putin’s actions requires a broader, firmer and fuller response, otherwise we risk his calculating that the rewards of aggression outweigh the costs.

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[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

Like others who have spoken, I welcome the regulations that we are discussing tonight, but I am underwhelmed by the announcement today of the Government’s sanctions. I have to say that I do not really understand the ratchet option. What we need now is a hard stop and tough action against the Russian Government.

These regulations are long overdue. I agree with the hon. Member for Isle of Wight (Bob Seely) that we are closing the stable door after the horse has bolted. What is happening in Ukraine today was summed up well by the right hon. Member for Maidenhead (Mrs May), who said that we are seeing not just an attack on the sovereignty of the independent state of Ukraine, but an attack on our western values and the right of free people to decide their own future.

This has not happened by accident. We had the Foreign Affairs Committee’s 2018 “Moscow’s Gold” report and the ISC’s long-delayed 2020 report on Russia—I sat on the latter Committee—and those reports laid out all the issues. I am baffled by the Government’s reluctance to act against the Putin regime.

I agree with the hon. Members for Tonbridge and Malling (Tom Tugendhat) and for Stirling (Alyn Smith) that we have no problem with the people of Russia. In fact, I would say the Russian people are the victims of Vladimir Putin and his regime. We have to understand that over the past 10 to 15 years this individual has been in control with a group of kleptocrats around him. If we are to get him to wake up and listen, we have to attack those individuals.

The hon. Member for Oxford West and Abingdon (Layla Moran) named some of those individuals, and they are known to people. It is not a great secret, as my right hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill (Liam Byrne) said. There is an option to identify individuals under proposed new regulation 6(4):

“For the purposes of this regulation, being ‘involved in obtaining a benefit from or supporting the Government of Russia’”.

There is no way that any of these individuals, who are doing business in Russia and have laundered money sitting in this country, could operate without supporting the Government of Russia, so I think there is an option to do it under these regulations. [Interruption.] The Minister is gesticulating that that is the point, and I agree with him, but the big issue is not whether it is in the regulations but whether it will be acted on by the Government. I am sorry, but this Government’s record so far has not been good.

There is an opportunity to do what the hon. Member for Oxford West and Abingdon suggests, and we now need to see action. The Russians will be baffled by the limitations on the sanctions that have been announced, and some of them will be laughing. They will think, “That’s what the UK has announced today. We’ll do a bit more and they’ll do something else tomorrow.” No, we need a hard stop now, and these regulations give us that opportunity, but the Government have to follow through.

Ken McCallum, the director general of MI5, was interviewed for the Daily Mail last week. He is the head of the Security Service, and he was venting his frustration in public that the laws to tackle spying are outdated, that the Official Secrets Act is no good, that the promised espionage Bill is not forthcoming—as someone said, the United States has had such an Act since 1938—and that there are issues with beneficial ownership and the reform of Companies House.

Those things were all laid out in the Foreign Affairs Committee’s report, and reinforced in many ways by the ISC’s 2020 report. We have a Government who seem to be sitting back. The invasion of Ukraine has now focused their attention, but we cannot allow this to continue. As the right hon. Member for Maidenhead said, this is an attack on our way of life and our democracy, which we all take for granted.

We will support these regulations tonight, but we also have to take action. The Government should make legislative time for the economic crime Bill and the other measures, as I am sure they would have united support on both sides of the House to get them on to the statute book. We now need action, not talk.

The Government also have to ensure that their communications are a damn sight clearer than they have been to date, because otherwise we are feeding our enemies who are now threatening the brave people of Ukraine.

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[James Cleverly]

I will rush on, because I was excessively generous earlier. The question was asked: will these sanctions be escalated only in response to further aggression? I can assure the House that these sanctions will be ratcheted up because of what has already happened, and not just in response to what might happen in the future. Our intention is to prevent even further invasion of Ukraine, to have those troops who are in Ukraine removed, and then to have them return to their home barracks once they are back in Russia. That is our ultimate aim, and the ratchet effect will be done to pursue that as a strategic aim.

There have been questions about asset flight. We are very conscious of this, and that is why we are not explicitly naming people or institutions that may be subject to future sanctions. It is also why it is very important that we work hand in hand with our international allies and friends, who are just as determined as we are to address this situation.

The shadow Foreign Secretary, the right hon. Member for Tottenham (Mr Lammy), compared what we have announced today unfavourably with what our allies say they are going to announce. If I were to say that this sanctions package is as far as the Government are willing to go, that might be a legitimate criticism, but the point we have made is that, just as our friends and allies intend to go further, we intend to go further. I have given some suggestions about where that additional ratchet effect may be focused, but we reserve the right to explore whatever is necessary to dissuade further aggression and to force Vladimir Putin to withdraw the troops that have entered Ukraine.

Questions were asked about the application of this statutory instrument in the OTs. This SI does cover the OTs. Members asked whether individuals who may not be in direct managerial or ownership roles would be subject to these sanctions. This SI is worded specifically to be broad in scope. I think implicit in the question my hon. Friend the Member for Huntingdon (Mr Djanogly) asked was that it might even be too broad in scope, but I can assure the House that it was written specifically to be broad in scope so that the ownership maze often put in place to hide the beneficiary of ownership can be addressed.

There have been some questions about family members. A family member is caught within scope where they are acting for or deriving benefit from their relationship with the Russian Government. However, just being the relative of someone who may be subject to sanctions is not necessarily enough on its own. There need to be reasonable grounds, and we always act with reasonableness, although we do act with firmness.

In the debate, it has sometimes sounded as if the only Russians subjected to UK sanctions are the ones who were named by my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary this morning. It is worth reminding the House that 58 entities and 186 Russian individuals are currently subject to financial sanctions under the Russia regime, including the ones designated today. There are already limitations on the activities in the UK of SberBank, VTB bank, Gazprombank and others, and as I say, we will not speculate on where future sanction designations may land.

Across the House, my right hon. and hon. Friends—including my right hon. Friend the Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Sir Iain Duncan Smith) and my hon. Friends the Members for Isle of Wight (Bob Seely) and for Tonbridge and Malling (Tom Tugendhat)—have called on us to do more, and their message was absolutely echoed, very effectively and eloquently, by the right hon. Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill (Liam Byrne), my shadow, the hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth (Stephen Doughty), and the hon. Members for Stirling (Alyn Smith) and for Oxford West and Abingdon (Layla Moran). I hear—the Government hear—exactly the points that they are making.

The hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones)—

[Mr Kevan Jones]

Right honourable.

[James Cleverly]

Right honourable. Exactly. It is appropriate to say that; apologies. The right hon. Member for North Durham made a point about what this framework enables us to do. This is the point we are making: this is legislation that enables us to apply sanctions very widely indeed and we will always do so in the way we believe to be most effective: that is, hand in hand with our friends and allies. We will repeat the message that the people of Ukraine have suffered enough. The aggression and intimidation must end. This will form part of our response to Vladimir Putin’s aggression. We will work towards a time when the people of Ukraine no longer live under the intimidation of Vladimir Putin, and indeed, as has been made clear by a number of Members around the House, the people of Russia can again enjoy a relationship with other countries around the world not tainted by the actions of this individual.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That the Russia (Sanctions) (EU Exit) (Amendment) Regulations 2022 (SI, 2022, No. 123), dated 10 February 2022, a copy of which was laid before this House on 10 February, be approved.

Russia: Sanctions

Kevan Jones Excerpts

Monday 31st January 2022 Commons Chamber

[Elizabeth Truss]

Our approach in dealing with the issue of Russian aggression is both deterrence and diplomacy. That is why the UK has been at the forefront in supplying defensive weapons to Ukraine, training up Ukrainian forces and working with our allies, many of whom are also supplying defensive support into Ukraine. But we have to be clear that there is a difference between a country that is a member of NATO, which has a security guarantee—Baltic states such as Estonia, where UK troops are in place—and the situation in Ukraine.

In my view, the best way of deterring Vladimir Putin from an invasion of Ukraine is by making it very clear, first, that that will not be simple or easy and is likely to result in a quagmire, as we saw in the Soviet-Afghan war or in Chechnya; and, secondly, that there will be severe economic consequences—and those are, of course, sanctions that target oligarchs and companies close to Vladimir Putin. Also, not going ahead with Nord Stream 2 is very important from the Russian point of view.

It is important that we talk to Russia and communicate these messages. We will not resile from our position on the protection of the open-door policy into NATO, but we will communicate directly with Russia so that it understands those messages.

[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

The Foreign Secretary comes to the House, talks tough and says that the Government have a readiness to act. It is four years since the Foreign Affairs Committee produced its “Moscow’s Gold” report, which outlined Russian corruption in the UK. It is two years since the Intelligence and Security Committee published its report on Russia, which outlined similar concerns. Why have the Government not acted in those years? If we are going to implement sanctions, how can we believe that they will be effective without strong political will and the determination to make them work?

[Elizabeth Truss]

We have taken a number of measures in recent years: namely, the Criminal Finances Act 2017 and the review we are conducting of visas. I am saying that the most far-reaching sanctions regime will be in place by 10 February, making sure that Russia understands that there is a severe package ready to be in place. Of course, I am absolutely prepared to do what is necessary to make those costs severe.

Russia

Kevan Jones Excerpts

Thursday 6th January 2022 Commons Chamber

[Elizabeth Truss]

My right hon. Friend is absolutely right about the NATO guarantee and its importance for NATO members, including the Baltic states. In December, I visited British troops forming part of NATO’s enhanced forward presence at Tapa in Estonia, where allies are helping to protect the border with Russia. We are working with our NATO partners to ensure that that protection remains in place and is enhanced so that we can fulfil our commitments.

With Ukraine, we are ensuring that it has the capability to defend itself. That involves training, and the UK has trained more than 20,000 troops in Ukraine. We are also supplying extra capability for naval defences as well as support in areas such as cyber-security and other services.

[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

I thank the Foreign Secretary for her statement. She comes to the Dispatch Box and talks tough, which I agree with, but it is now two years since the ISC report. The Putin regime did not come to power by accident; it did so through the use of corruption and, as the ISC report spells out, enablers in this country and the west. The only recommendation that has been implemented is the one for the House of Lords of a register of interests of Lords with Russian companies. Like my hon. Friend the Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant), I ask the Foreign Secretary: when will the Government get tough and real and implement the Russia report recommendations? I also urge her, before she has lunch again with a Russian donor to the Conservative party, to think and ask where that money came from originally.

[Elizabeth Truss]

As I have said, we have a very tough anti-corruption regime, and we have used it. As a result of the work that we are doing with our allies, we have been clear that Russia would face massive consequences if there were to be an incursion into Ukraine.

Withdrawal from Afghanistan: Joint Committee

Kevan Jones Excerpts

Wednesday 15th September 2021 Commons Chamber

[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

I pay tribute to the members of our armed forces and diplomatic staff who have worked tirelessly over the past months in Afghanistan. The shambles lies with Ministers, as my hon. Friend the Member for Wigan (Lisa Nandy) said. We have to scrutinise this and ensure that lessons are learned. We have some very difficult and unpalatable choices to face in Afghanistan, and some people to speak to whom we do not want to speak to, but those choices will have to be made if we are going to avoid any humanitarian crisis and rescue the people who have been left behind.

The lessons do need to be learned and Ministers need to be scrutinised, but I have a problem with this motion. As outlined by the right hon. Member for New Forest East (Dr Lewis), the Intelligence and Security Committee is the only Committee of this House that can have access to the highest grade of top secret information. The motion covers intelligence, but it would be very difficult for the Committee to have access to that. Its members would have to get the highest level of security clearance, and staff would also have to meet those requirements. There would have to be new accommodation to ensure that that information could be discussed. The ISC has its own dedicated accommodation. Computer systems would have to be put in place that could deal with that intelligence. That would simply not be possible, and that is a good reason why the Committee should not be set up in this way.

The Intelligence and Security Committee was set up under the Intelligence Services Act 1994 and its powers extended under the Justice and Security Act 2013. We have already asked to see the intelligence that informed Government decision making. Once we have seen that intelligence, we will then wait to see the next steps. It would be wrong to prejudge that. Not only would it be impractical to set up this Committee and take forward some of the things in the motion, but it would undermine the work of the Intelligence and Security Committee. We are already having a battle with the Government on trying to get access to information in areas that intelligence has now seeped into—for example, the National Security Strategic Investment Fund.

[Anthony Mangnall]

The right hon. Gentleman is talking about the very difficult practicalities around setting up an inquiry and the intelligence that has to go with it. There is also a limitation on how much intelligence we are able to get out of Afghanistan because there is no network there. Does he agree that there has to be a period of time before any substantial inquiry could ever be looked at?

[Mr Jones]

No, I do not agree, because the intelligence will be there—the Joint Intelligence Committee report and others—and we will be able to see that. We have not publicly announced that we are going to hold an inquiry, because that would be wrong before we have seen the intelligence. The Minister has assured us today that the Committee will get that information, which will be important before we make those decisions. I understand the good intentions with the proposed Committee, but the motion has been fatally drafted by the inclusion of the intelligence element.

As a long supporter of the Select Committee system in this House, I share some of the concerns of the Chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee, the hon. Member for Tonbridge and Malling (Tom Tugendhat). I sit on the Defence Committee, which has already instigated an inquiry looking at the military’s involvement in that short period.

This is a mess, and it is right that the Government are held to account. I share the anger that many Members from all parts of the House feel at having been ignored in trying to do their job representing their constituents and trying to get people out of very desperate situations. The Minister’s blasé approach does not help. We are elected to represent our constituents here. This situation has created a huge amount of pressure on many Members of Parliament who have large numbers of individuals involved, as well as on our staff. The Foreign Office has to learn lessons. One of the biggest mistakes was dividing the issue between three Departments. Those lessons need to be learned, and Members of Parliament have to be listened to. Our emails and letters cannot just be ignored and treated as other representations to the Foreign Office.

If those things are done, that will improve the situation, but the lessons have to be learned, and the actions and the scrutiny have to be done. In terms of intelligence, the only Committee that can do that is the ISC. We will wait to see what the intelligence assessment says, and then we will take those decisions. That is why I feel I cannot support this motion tonight.

Afghanistan: FCDO Responses to Members

Kevan Jones Excerpts

Thursday 9th September 2021 Commons Chamber

[James Cleverly]

My hon. Friend is right that the majority of refugees from Afghanistan would be expected to find refuge, at least in the first instance, in neighbouring countries. We work extensively with those countries. We enjoy strong bilateral relations with most, particularly Pakistan, which has a long border with Afghanistan. I can assure him that we will continue to work closely with them to ensure that refugees that enter their countries are looked after.

[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

I join the Minister in thanking members of the armed forces and consular staff, who have worked incredibly hard. This mess is not of their making; it is that of Ministers. He claims there have been 200,000 emails, but they are not all from Members of Parliament. If that were the case, we would have each sent more than 300 emails. Is he saying to the House that our emails have no more weight than any others? Can I just raise with him the marked contrast with how other countries have dealt with this issue? I had a constituent in Afghanistan who is a British citizen. There was no answer from the Foreign Office. My office laterally thought, as her husband is a US citizen, to contact the State Department. It not only replied straight away, but got her out within 48 hours and phoned to say it had been done. There is a different way of doing it, and it is about how parliamentarians are treated.

The Defence Secretary suggested that people should now move to the borders if they want to leave. I have a family in my constituency who have the ability to get to Pakistan, but want to know what happens next. The Germans last week put in place a transit route through Uzbekistan. Where are we at with this?

[James Cleverly]

As I have said, the Foreign Secretary visited the region and spoke extensively with regional partners, including Pakistan. We will continue to explore with those neighbouring countries what means can be put in place for Afghans to come to the UK, where that is their most appropriate destination. I am glad that the right hon. Gentleman pays tribute to the officials in the Government Departments, most notably the FCDO, the Ministry of Defence and the Home Office. Many other Departments provided volunteers to reinforce our work, and I also pay tribute to them.