Female Genital Mutilation

Karen Bradley Excerpts

Tuesday 15th December 2015 General Committees

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department (Karen Bradley)]

It is pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Evans. I am also grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Elmet and Rothwell for his introduction to the debate on behalf of the European Scrutiny Committee, of which he is a member.

Let me be absolutely clear, FGM is a serious crime. It is child abuse and the Government are determined to stop it, as are my counterparts in the European Union. The Commission’s communication of 2 December 2013 set out a range of actions to be undertaken at EU level towards ending FGM. As stated in the explanatory memorandum from the then Minister for Crime Prevention, the previous Government broadly supported the recommendations in the communication. The Government agreed that action needed to be taken to eradicate FGM in member states to which practising communities have migrated.

Without complacency, the Government felt that, while there were some areas where the EU can add value—for example, facilitating the sharing of information and best practice on tackling FGM—the UK was already undertaking a significant amount of work domestically to achieve the same outcomes. This remains our view. The actions undertaken by the Commission under the communication have been appropriate and proportionate in that regard and have respected member state competences.

I will now provide the Committee with an overview of the implementation of those actions in both the EU and the UK. First, to develop a better understanding of FGM in the EU, the Commission has funded the development of methodologies to estimate the prevalence of FGM and the number of girls at risk. Secondly, to promote multi-agency working, the Commission is funding a number of awareness-raising activities, including national campaigns in the UK, France and Malta, and an online training tool for professionals. Thirdly, to support member states in prosecuting FGM more effectively, the Commission will publish an analysis of relevant criminal laws and court cases early next year. Fourthly, the Commission has recast the asylum procedures directive and the reception conditions directive. That places an obligation on those member states that have opted in to set standards for the qualification and reception of applicants for international protection.

Finally, the Commission has actively participated in international co-operation to promote the elimination of FGM, including making pledges at the girl summit, hosted by the Prime Minister and UNICEF last year and providing €7 million for projects working to end FGM in countries such as Egypt and Senegal.

As the Committee will be aware, the UK has undertaken a significant amount of work towards ending FGM. On 22 July this year, we marked the first anniversary of the girl summit, and all the commitments made at the 2014 summit have now been delivered. In July, Ministers signed a cross-Government declaration reaffirming our commitment to tackling FGM and child, early, and forced marriage.

During the previous Parliament we introduced a number of measures via the Serious Crime Act 2015 to strengthen the law on FGM, and those new measures include: FGM protection orders, which came into force in July this year and are already being used to protect girls at risk of FGM; a new offence of failing to protect girls at risk of FGM; life-long anonymity for victims of FGM; and the introduction of a new mandatory reporting duty that requires specified professionals to report known cases of FGM in under-18s to the police. That duty commenced on 31 October and we believe it will help to give professionals the confidence to confront FGM.

As the Committee will be aware, to date there has not been a successful prosecution for FGM, and one of the challenges cited by police is the lack of referrals. This new duty can support prosecutions where FGM has taken place and, in turn, deter perpetrators, which will ultimately, prevent this appalling crime from happening in the first place.

Clearly, legislation alone is not going to end FGM. It is a complex issue which demands a co-ordinated response from a range of professionals. We have worked to ensure that they are equipped with the resources they need to tackle FGM effectively. That work includes part-funding an independent study into the prevalence of FGM in England and Wales and publishing the first ever NHS statistics about patients with FGM; publishing multi-agency practice guidelines, which we are updating and making statutory; and establishing a dedicated FGM unit, based at the Home Office, which is providing outreach support to professionals and local communities. In addition, to improve the healthcare response, the Department of Health has funded a £3 million FGM prevention programme.

To support the social care response, the Department for Education has provided £2 million in funding for an FGM project that is creating a specialised team of skilled social workers. In March, the College of Policing published new authorised professional practices on FGM to raise awareness among investigators and better equip them to tackle the practice.

Ultimately, however, we will not stop FGM unless we change attitudes. That is why the Government ran a national communications campaign, with funding from the EU, to raise awareness last year. We also funded 29 community engagement projects, including a network of community champions who are reaching thousands of women and girls affected by FGM and, importantly, their families.

The UK has not opted into the recast asylum procedures and reception condition directives. Nevertheless, we do provide protection where it is needed. Importantly, our asylum system is gender sensitive and fully considers any risks relating to gender-based persecution, including the risk of FGM.

We recognise the importance of sharing information and best practice across countries and are fully committed to playing our part in that. That is why the Department for International Development is continuing with the implementation of its £35 million programme to support the Africa-led movement to end FGM. Recognising that this is an area where the EU can add value, we have actively participated in a number of international exchanges, including holding the girl summit that I mentioned earlier and hosting a European learning forum on FGM earlier this year.

In conclusion, I welcome the opportunity to debate the Commission’s communication and look forward to questions on it from hon. Members.

[The Chair]

We will now move to the questions session. The Minister started speaking at 2.35 pm; we have one hour from then, so I will bring proceedings to a close at 3.35 pm if they have not concluded earlier.

[The Chair]

I will allow supplementary questions at my discretion. I know that this is the first Committee for a number of Members, so I will be hugely tolerant.

[Karen Bradley]

The hon. Lady is also champion of the FGM issue. I thank her for her support and for her work as a member of the Serious Crime Bill Committee, in which we debated so many of these issues. She is right to highlight the point about figures, because one of the problems we have is identifying the prevalence of FGM. It is very much a hidden crime. We are only just touching on accurate evidence and information about the prevalence of FGM. Estimates are made but we need to know exactly what the position is.

The work that we have been doing with the NHS and the work that the Department of Health has been doing to ensure that we understand the prevalence of FGM across the NHS is incredibly important, as is the mandatory reporting. At the moment, I do not have the updated figures but, with mandatory reporting coming in, we are very confident that that will give us a much better estimate of the number of women and girls who have been affected by FGM in the UK. It is only by understanding the prevalence and the size of the problem that we can begin to tackle it and get into the communities to make sure that they understand what it is that we are trying to do, which is to show that this practice is totally and utterly unacceptable.

The hon. Lady asked about specialist training on FGM and I talked in my statement about the work that the Department for Education is doing to make sure that there is outreach to people, to the communities that may be affected. That includes training, of course, for those professionals who will come into contact with individuals, but there is always more that can be done and I am in no way complacent about this. We need to make sure that there is thorough awareness of this problem, that people do not feel frightened of confronting it and that they know they have the support of the Government and the public in confronting this issue.

The hon. Lady also asked about a review of FGM protection orders. We do not yet have the figures for the number of FGM protection orders—that information will be coming out shortly. Clearly, the Government look at these things constantly to make sure that they are working, they are appropriate and they are delivering what we want, which is to stop this crime happening in the first place.

[Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab)]

I do not mince words on this. It is absolutely barbaric and incredibly cruel—we ought to say that loudly and many times so that people who indulge in this practice get the message. The figures may well be out of date but there was a table on page 10 of the document that shows—an estimate obviously—that for the number of women with FGM, of the 11 EU countries listed, Britain is the highest. For the number of girls at risk of FGM, Britain is again the highest but so far, according to this table, there have been no prosecutions at all. We are talking about tens of thousands, and possibly many more than that. Can the Minister explain why we have not had any prosecutions, or none up to that date anyway?

[Karen Bradley]

I know that the hon. Gentleman takes a particular interest in this issue. He is quite right, it is barbaric and cruel. It is child abuse. There is no way in which it can be excused or tolerated. He asked about prosecutions and pointed out the figures showing the UK to have the estimated highest prevalence of FGM in the EU. The problem with prosecutions is that this is such a hidden crime that victims have not wanted to come forward and that, often, a prosecution would involve a victim giving evidence, perhaps against their closest family members. Although the practice of FGM was originally made a criminal offence in 1985, there was not a single referral to the CPS until 2010. Referrals are now coming through. There was a prosecution that unfortunately did not result in a conviction earlier this year, but it did at least establish many of the issues that had been of concern; for example, whether infibulation or reinfibulation was part of the offence. It was quite clear from that case that they are part of the criminal offence.

I know that the CPS is looking to make sure that we can have a prosecution with a successful conviction. I think that is what we all want to see—that successful conviction. By introducing life-long anonymity for victims so that they can come forward to give evidence and know that this will not be exposed in public, by introducing mandatory reporting and by introducing, for example, the failure to protect a girl at risk of FGM as a criminal offence, I am confident that we are doing the right things to give law enforcement and the prosecution services the tools they need to get that prosecution that we all so desperately want to see.

[Kelvin Hopkins]

Although the prosecution rate is still low, France has had 29 prosecutions. We have had none. Obviously France is doing something that we are not doing—is there anything we can learn from France?

[Karen Bradley]

The hon. Gentleman will know that France has a different legal system and a different evidence threshold but, absolutely, we can always learn more. We need to learn what it is in France that has given those victims the confidence to come forward and has enabled the prosecuting authorities to get the evidence they need. We believe that the measures that we have taken following the girl summit go a long way to doing that—we now need to see that prosecution. If we do nothing else today, I want to make it clear, on the record, that this Committee and this House urge law enforcement and prosecuting authorities to take this seriously and to get that prosecution.

[Kelvin Hopkins]

Obviously I support and applaud what the Minister has said. Is there a confidential helpline where a family member could say, “My sister is at risk”, or something of that kind? Many young women have adjusted to a more western way of life and would want to prevent terrible things from happening, especially if it has happened to them. Is there a confidential helpline?

[Karen Bradley]

There are a number of confidential helplines and apps. I was at the launch of one app earlier this year. It provides a confidential way for people to submit their concerns to an independent, non-Government body that can help and support them. However, we need to do more, and mandatory reporting is incredibly important. I know that some professionals have had concerns about taking on that burden, but if a healthcare professional saw a patient who had been the victim of another crime, we would expect them to report it. In the same way, they should report FGM, which is clearly a horrendous crime.

The National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children also runs a confidential helpline for victims and professionals, so there are places that people can go. I would be very happy to write to members of the Committee with details of those helplines if they want to share them with their constituents.

[Kelvin Hopkins]

I have one more question, about girls being taken out of school for significant periods. Is there some reporting method for that? It is partly to do with forced marriage, but in certain communities, mainly from Africa and the middle east, girls are taken out of school for significant periods of time, either being taken abroad to have the FGM done there or even having it done within Britain and not being well enough to go back to school.

[Karen Bradley]

Again, the hon. Gentleman makes a very important point. The reason why we introduced protection orders at the beginning of the school holidays was that we know that is a time when girls can be taken out of the UK to be cut. The families know that the girls will come back to a new class, and possibly even a new school if they are moving from primary to secondary school.

The hon. Gentleman is right that girls leaving school for a significant period of time can be an indicator of FGM, and I know that there is multi-agency working across the country to look carefully at that. Reports can be made to multi-agency safeguarding hubs and, of course, to the NHS helpline. We have also published multi-agency guidance, which, as I have said, we are putting on a statutory footing. That includes information for schools and teachers on what to look out for.

[Naz Shah (Bradford West) (Lab)]

Do we know how many protection orders have been used for FGM so far, or even in the last year?

[Karen Bradley]

We do not yet have the final figures. Protection orders were only introduced on 17 July, so the first set of statistics has not yet come through. We hope to have them shortly, and I am sure the hon. Lady will be made aware of them when they are released.

[Sarah Champion]

Taking the Minister back to her answer about telephone helplines and reporting, I know that the advice on hate crimes is to call 111, but 111 does not have a translation service. Will the Minister tell Committee members, when she reports back to us, whether people are able to report in languages other than English?

[Karen Bradley]

I would be happy to report back to the Committee on that when I write with all the information on the helplines and the other help that is available, including from the FGM unit at the Home Office. We also have a forced marriage unit, which is a joint Home Office and Foreign Office unit working across communities to provide outreach education about forced marriage. It also works across borders with countries where we believe people may be being taken to be put into a forced marriage. I will be very happy to share all that information when I write to the Committee.

Motion made, and Question proposed,

That the Committee takes note of European Union Document No. 17228/13, a Commission Communication: Towards the elimination of female genital mutilation.—(Karen Bradley.)

--- Later in debate ---

[Karen Bradley]

I thank all Members of the Committee for their contributions. I will make a few points in response to the debate before concluding.

I am not sure whether the Committee is aware that my noble Friend Baroness Verma has been appointed Government champion on international violence against women and girls, a role she fulfils in her capacity as an International Development Minister. I met her earlier today to discuss how we can work together to try to get the cultural changes that so many Members have talked about and to get that working internationally.

The hon. Member for Rotherham and others talked about cultural change, and they are absolutely right. This is not a problem we can tackle only through legislation, as the hon. Member for Lanark and Hamilton East said. There has to be cultural change.

The hon. Member for Luton North suggested that we were somehow going soft on the issue. I assure him that is simply not the case. There is no doubt in my mind or that of the law enforcement and prosecution services that nobody should think they can get away with this—absolutely not. That is why we made changes through the Serious Crime Act, beefing up the legislation and making it easier for victims to feel they can come forward, with lifelong anonymity and with the additional protection orders and other measures we have put in place.

The hon. Gentleman is right to say that we want to see a prosecution, but we have to remember that in a court of law in England and Wales, we are talking about a situation where a jury has to be convinced beyond reasonable doubt, and that can mean witnesses giving evidence against their own family members—an incredibly difficult situation. That is why we need to do everything we can to protect those witnesses and victims so that we can get the prosecutions.

[Kelvin Hopkins]

I do not doubt the Minister’s sincerity or the concern of the Government and Members of all persuasions, but the reality is that there has not been a prosecution in all this time. People in the communities involved come from countries that are much rougher and tougher than ours, and they think, “They’re not going to pursue us, because there have been no prosecutions.” The reality is that, however we try to approach it in a sensible, law-abiding, modern way, people in those communities really think that they can get away with it.

[Karen Bradley]

I must correct the hon. Gentleman: there has been a prosecution; it just did not lead to a successful conviction. If we look back at that situation, the reason the prosecution was brought in the first place was that this was not a family member, but a doctor who reinfibulated a woman who had just given birth; and one of the problems with that prosecution was that the victim was called as a witness for the defence. That shows the difficulty we have with this situation. We are talking about very complicated, personal situations that involve family members. I commend the Crown Prosecution Service for bringing the prosecution, but it was always going to be very difficult to get a conviction.

[Mr David Burrowes (Enfield, Southgate) (Con)]

How do our current legislation and protection orders compare to provisions in other countries in terms of the level of attention given to ensuring that we get the prosecutions that victims deserve?

[Karen Bradley]

I will be happy to write to my hon. Friend with an analysis of the comparisons because we probably do not have time to go through it now. Let me be clear: the protection orders are for girls that we consider to be at risk of FGM, to protect them and stop them from being taken out of the country—for example, their passports are removed. That is girls who are at risk of FGM. We have also taken measures for girls where FGM has been committed. To return to mandatory reporting, that has been in force only since 31 October, but it means that any professional in a public body who comes into contact with FGM—to be clear: a health professional who sees that FGM has been committed and who knows it has been committed—has a mandatory duty to report it so that we get the information.

[Naz Shah]

I am going to speak about my experience of honour-based forced marriages and the case of Shafilea Ahmed. In that case we did not have a body, but we prosecuted. What I am struggling to understand is why, when we have got the evidence base—when we have clear medical evidence of mutilation—we need witness testimony. Why are we not prosecuting?

[Karen Bradley]

I cannot answer for why the CPS would choose to take a prosecution or not. I repeat that no cases were referred to the CPS before 2010, so it was impossible for it to take a prosecution. Cases are now being referred and the CPS will make its best judgment on whether a prosecution can be achieved.

The hon. Lady is right about the evidence. That is where mandatory reporting is so important, because it means that those professionals who feared coming forward and saying they had seen this, because they feared it was somehow going to create a cultural difficulty, now know that they have to come forward and we will get that evidence.

[Naz Shah]

We have had 386 reports connected to FGM since 2009. I accept that the law is complicated, but we have the evidence. Do we need to do more in terms of changing the law? The prosecution that was pursued had nothing to do with a parent or a non-family member; it involved a medical practitioner who was not trained and who was found not guilty. It was not set within the context of the law—when we introduced the law, it was not for that kind of case. It is exactly the same for forced marriage: when we prosecuted in Cardiff, the first prosecution was not to do with parents or people who take very young girls out of the country to get them married. In both instances, we are failing. Please can we acknowledge that and do something more than just what we are doing here, because clearly we are not doing it right?

[Karen Bradley]

I dispute that we are not doing enough. I absolutely share the hon. Lady’s frustration about the lack of prosecutions and successful convictions. However, the measures in the Serious Crime Act 2015 were included in response to failings or gaps in the law that this Government perceived. We have taken those steps, but she has to recognise that that does not simply change things overnight. The changes to the law apply to offences committed after the Serious Crime Act commences, and there will be a time lag, which we all have to acknowledge, while evidence is gathered and before a prosecution takes place. I want to see a prosecution and a successful conviction as much as she does but, also, I do not want to see FGM happening in the first place. The hon. Lady is right that a successful conviction would send a clear message, as it has with forced marriage, that the practice is not acceptable. We must have the deterrent of a successful conviction, but we also have to prevent this practice from happening. A conviction is, in many ways, a failure, because a crime has happened. That is not a success; a success is preventing it from happening.

The hon. Member for Luton North and my hon. Friend the Member for Kensington made a point about men. They are both absolutely right; we need to change the culture, and not just among women. We need women who have been victims or who are worried about their siblings and members of their family to come forward, but we also need men to speak out.

One of the most heartening things I heard over the summer was when I visited the Border Force safeguarding team at Heathrow terminal 5. The law had only changed a week before, and the team told me about their experiences of families traveling out of the country, often via the middle east, to countries where FGM may take place. It was the men—the brothers, the uncles and the fathers—who said to the Border Force guards, “Thank you for having told us that this is a criminal offence and that if this happens to my daughter, sister or niece while she is out of the country, you will be watching for that on her return and we will face jail for having allowed it to happen. That means I have the power and the authority to tell members of my family who want to do this to my relative that they cannot, because it is a criminal act here in the UK.” That is such an important point.

[Kelvin Hopkins]

The Minister makes a good point. Getting across to men the idea that they do not want their daughters to be mutilated because it is wrong, as well as being fearful of prosecution, is fundamental. The idea of this happening to my granddaughter is unthinkable, and we want it to be unthinkable for all men. In societies that are strongly patriarchal, the man’s view counts.

[Karen Bradley]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right; we have to change attitudes among men and women, so that they understand. I cannot imagine how any father could think of this happening to his daughter, but the excuse given is, “You will need to do this to your daughter, otherwise she will not be attractive to men.” Fathers need to speak out and say that that is simply not the case. We need to ensure that as many people as possible speak out and say that. I commend all the campaigners on this issue, some of whom are victims themselves and many of whom make that argument.

I want to make a point about training. I mentioned in my opening statement that the Department of Health is funding a £3 million national FGM prevention programme, which is under way in partnership with NHS England and has reached thousands of professionals. More than 2,000 professionals have attended women’s sessions, and nearly 8,000 GPs have received resource packs. The next stage of the programme includes work to address the mental health needs of those who have had FGM and to improve the NHS safeguarding system.

We have had a good and open debate. I appreciate the support from both sides of the Committee, and I share the frustration about the lack of a successful conviction. We are all sending a message that that is what we want to see. I accept the points made and will write to members of the Committee about the helpline and how this offence can be reported. I assure the Committee that the Government will continue with the range of work under way on FGM, ensuring that best practice and information is shared at both the European and international level.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That the Committee takes note of European Union Document No. 17228/13, a Commission Communication: Towards the elimination of female genital mutilation.