Taxis and Private Hire Vehicles (Safeguarding and Road Safety) Bill

Jim Shannon Excerpts

2nd reading
Friday 10th September 2021 Commons Chamber

[Peter Gibson]

My hon. Friend is correct that the devolved nations would be able to access the database. I am not aware of discussions among or engagement between the devolved nations and the Department for Transport.

As I was saying, the existing legislation enables only the authority that issued a licence to take action against it. The Bill will enhance safety by requiring licensing authorities to report information on certain serious safeguarding or road safety matters to the authority that issued the licence.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Peter Gibson]

I would be delighted to take my first intervention from the hon. Gentleman.

[Jim Shannon]

I am always pleased to get a first. I am aware of occasions where people with wheelchairs or mobility rollators have been unable to use taxis. Will the Bill safeguard accessibility for disabled people to use taxis and ensure that they have equality with those of us who are able-bodied?

[Peter Gibson]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his intervention. I feel as though I have obtained my proper parliamentary wings, having now taken an intervention from him. He raises an important point on the rights and needs of disabled passengers. The Bill does not deal with access to vehicles, but it does deal with safeguarding. I believe it will help deliver that provision for those who are most vulnerable in our society and require public authorities to ensure that safety is of paramount concern in licensing decisions.

The Bill would give the Government flexibility to designate a database provider or to provide the database themselves. Given the existence of NR3, it would make sense to use that database so that the Bill’s provisions can come into effect quickly. I recognise that NR3 does not currently allow for the recording of suspensions, but I wanted that in the Bill in case such functionality is added at a later date. Many local authorities already pay a fee to the National Anti Fraud Network for use of a wide range of services, including access to NR3.

The ability of the database operator to charge a fee would enable the National Anti Fraud Network to continue to recover NR3’s running costs. Indeed, it is anticipated that rather than starting from scratch with a new database, there will be use of the existing voluntary database operated by the National Anti Fraud Network—of which NR3 forms a part—which is already subscribed to by 256 of the 276 licensing authorities. However, only 138 such authorities use the NR3 element. I am reliably informed by the Local Government Association that, with little or no additional costs, the NR3 database could fulfil the Bill’s requirements if the Secretary of State so designates.

The Bill’s objective can be illustrated no better than through use of the current voluntary scheme. Luton Borough Council recently ran a check on the NR3 database for a driver applying for a licence. The search revealed a revocation in another local authority area, due to a safeguarding concern, which the applicant failed to disclose. Consequently, Luton—rightly—refused a licence due to that deliberate withholding of information.

Taxis and Private Hire Vehicles (Safeguarding and Road Safety) Bill

Jim Shannon Excerpts

3rd reading
Friday 21st January 2022 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

First, I commend the hon. Member for Darlington (Peter Gibson) on opening the debate in such an effective way, as he always does. He did so the last time I was here, too. Today is the culmination of that; I understand that Third Reading will take place today.

Whenever my grandchildren see something go well, they say, “Granddad, you’re a lucky duck!” The hon. Member is a lucky duck today, so well done to him for shortly getting the Bill through Parliament and for all he has done to improve this key issue: the safety of those who use taxis and private hire vehicles. Well done, genuinely. Those who are here are here to thank him and to participate in the debate. For the record, I also commend the hon. Member for Cambridge (Daniel Zeichner), because I know that this is a subject close to his heart. We can all rejoice in the culmination of the Bill’s progress through the House today.

Although I appreciate that the Bill does not apply to Northern Ireland as it is a devolved matter and we have our own taxi and private hire vehicle laws—I have spoken to the hon. Member for Darlington about that—it is great to speak on the main aspects of the Bill to see what can be learned in this place and what encouragement can be given to improve the legislation. When the legislation is passed, I intend to send it through to our Minister in Northern Ireland and say, “Here’s something that they’re doing across the water. Perhaps it might be a good idea to follow suit and put whatever we don’t have in place as well.”

The Bill has a simple but effective purpose, which is to protect our public—a key issue. Our taxi and private hire business is massive. In 2020, almost 300,000 taxis and PHVs were licensed to operate in England. That represents a roughly 60% increase in the numbers licensed since 2005.

In Northern Ireland specifically, the Department for Infrastructure figures say that there were 8,781 registered taxi drivers as of ’20-’21. According to a previous DfI report, in 2014, a total of 15,802 taxi drivers’ licences were recorded—just six years later, the figure has plummeted to just 9,045, a fall of more than 42%. The figures indicate that we in Northern Ireland have not had the increase in business to which the hon. Member for Darlington referred.

[Dr Hudson]

If you will forgive me for making a second cricket analogy in two days, Mr Speaker, I cannot resist the opportunity to break my duck and intervene on the hon. Member. On his point about how different parts of the United Kingdom can learn from each other, does he agree, as a Northern Ireland Member, that legislation through which we can share best practice across the United Kingdom shows us how important our precious Union is?

[Jim Shannon]

I certainly agree with the hon. Gentleman. He is right that I am a committed Unionist and I would always love to see this great nation as one; everybody from Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and England is better together. He is pushing at an open door with that point. He makes a serious point, however, about how we can learn. It is important to share details, legislation and ideas, and to share what is right and what is successful, and then do that across this great nation.

Whether the figures in Northern Ireland are a result of the pandemic is another topic. I welcome the safeguarding aspects of the Bill, to which the hon. Member for Darlington referred. The main concept of the Bill is to ensure that only those fit to hold a licence are entrusted to carry the public. We could not ask for more—that is a key point. On Second Reading, he stated that the Bill aims to

“protect the hundreds of thousands of…drivers from having their reputation tarnished…by the abhorrent behaviour of a small minority”.—[Official Report, 10 September 2021; Vol. 700, c. 596.]

I repeat that today because it is a key part of the issue.

Many local government associations welcome the Bill as it would make it mandatory for licensing authorities to access vital background information about drivers seeking a licence in their relevant areas. That fully supports the use of councils, as they can ensure that those using taxi or private hire services are kept safe. With that in mind, I am sure that we in Northern Ireland, where it is a devolved matter, will make that happen, as the hon. Member for Penrith and The Border (Dr Hudson) said and the hon. Member for Darlington wants, too.

Licensing laws need to be brought up to date, which is what we are doing today. The Bill will take us to the next stage of enshrining safeguarding and protection in legislation. We live in a world where regulations, guidelines and policy are everything, so this is an opportunity for protection to be brought in, for legislation to be updated and to secure better travel for our constituents. The Bill aims to make the licensing system for taxis and PHVs fit for the 21st century, which will ultimately benefit both passengers and trade. We should all welcome that, because it is a step in the right direction for taxi companies and passengers who travel.

I feel strongly that more power to deal with allegations of crime or misconduct should be given to local authorities. The process of an investigation could well be delayed for months otherwise. For the protection of our constituents, the Bill takes us that stage further. Local agencies should have the power to deal with this matter in their areas. When working with the private sector, we must ensure that our constituents get every level of protection.

This Bill enables all licensing authorities to record and input into the database instances where they have refused to grant or renew a driver’s licence, or have suspended or revoked the licence because of a certain safeguarding or road-safety concern. I welcome the recent announcement of £14 million to help the taxi industry deal with the impact of the pandemic. We often say—it is the truth—that the Government stepped up to help businesses during the pandemic, and we are all deeply indebted to them for that. They have helped my constituents, along with all the constituents in this great nation represented by MPs in this House.

I believe that further discussion should be undertaken between the Minister, the Department and the devolved nations to see how we can further protect the public. I appreciate that data and information can be shared if necessary, but there should be a further conversation on the timescale. When the Minister sums up, can she indicate what conversations have been had with the devolved Administrations? That would tie in with what the hon. Member for Penrith and The Border said in his intervention and what the hon. Member for Darlington said. If there is something good here, we should share it.

To conclude, I welcome the comments of hon. Members who have spoken so far. I look forward to the contributions from those who follow, from both sides of the Chamber, particularly from the hon. Member for Ilford South (Sam Tarry) and the Minister.

I wish the hon. Member for Darlington well for the remainder of this important Bill’s legislative process. When it comes to public safety, it is crucial that we play our part in protecting the general public by having the correct guidelines in place. For that reason, this House, the Minister and the Government have much to thank the hon. Member for Darlington for in introducing this Bill.