Tobacco and Vapes Bill

Jim Allister Excerpts

Report stage
Wednesday 26th March 2025 Commons Chamber

[Tristan Osborne]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his contribution. I want to take him back to his speech, when he said that he would consider an increase in age to 21 or 25. My concern is that that would introduce a two-tier adult status. If we increase the age from 18 to 21 overnight, there will be adults who previously could smoke who will then be banned from smoking for three years. I do not accept the premise that we should have two-tier adults, which is why I believe in a staged increase in smoking cessation.

On new clause 13, I support the Government’s ambition to reduce smoking and I want to make it absolutely clear that this measure is part of a global standard to reduce smoking around the world. The Bill is pioneering and I urge Members to support it.

[Jim Allister (North Antrim) (TUV)]

On Second Reading, the Government said that this is a four nations Bill. On the face of it, it is, but the legal reality is that it is not. The provisions applicable to Northern Ireland are inevitably destined to be struck down by the High Court because of Northern Ireland’s subjugation, under the protocol or Windsor framework, to EU law. The specific EU law that Northern Ireland is subject to relevant to this Bill is the tobacco directive. According to that directive, states cannot limit the placing on the market of tobacco products. That caused the Governments of two countries within the EU—the Governments of Denmark and the Irish Republic—to withdraw proposals, while acknowledging that they wanted to do what this House is doing, but could not do so, because it would breach the tobacco directive.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ashley Dalton]

I thank the hon. Member for her intervention. If I am allowed to finish, that is one of the issues and that proposal may not necessarily improve environmental outcomes. However, we consider that powers are already available to the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs that enable the Government to limit the damage to the environment caused by filters, so the amendments are unnecessary.

Similarly, new clause 14, tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Dartford (Jim Dickson), would prohibit the supply of all cigarette filters or cigarettes containing filters, whether they contain plastic or not. Ultimately we believe that the best way to tackle filters is through the reduction of smoking rates. On bundles of tobacco products, the Bill gives the Government the powers to regulate retail packaging of tobacco products and devices, herbal smoking products and cigarette papers, as well as vaping and nicotine products. In addition, the Bill already gives the Government powers to regulate how products are packaged together in bundles, so amendments 86 and 87, also tabled by my hon. Friend, are not necessary.

Amendments 46, 90 and 91 and new clauses 8 to 10 and 15 would all undermine our promise to the electorate to stop vapes being advertised to children. We have a clear mandate, with 74% of adults in Great Britain supportive of a ban, and we will not create any exemptions that could undermine this. On amendment 90 and new clause 15, let me reassure the shadow Secretary of State and my hon. Friend the Member for Newcastle upon Tyne East and Wallsend (Mary Glindon) that the Government are not prohibiting the promotion of vapes in general as a smoking cessation tool.

Let me reassure my hon. Friends the Members for Newcastle upon Tyne East and Wallsend and for Suffolk Coastal (Jenny Riddell-Carpenter) that the Bill already provides the Government with powers to limit the amount of nicotine in a nicotine pouch, to regulate vaping products in such a way that would prohibit the sale of high puff count vaping devices, including setting tank capacity limits for devices where multiple refill tanks are attached, and to ban any other ingredient that may be harmful. The Government believe that these measures are more appropriate for secondary legislation due to the technical details that need to be captured, rather than in primary legislation as new clauses 4 and 21 would require.

On amendment 37, tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Newcastle upon Tyne East and Wallsend, we recognise that vape flavours are a really important consideration for adult smokers seeking to quit smoking, but we also know that sweet or fruity flavours are the main flavours that appeal to children and that certain flavours and ingredients can be particularly harmful to health. We have been clear that we will carefully consider our future regulations so that we get the balance right, and this is subject to a statutory duty to consult. Similarly, I reassure my hon. Friend that amendment 88 is unnecessary. We will honour the long-established principles of good consultation when consulting on regulations under part 5 of the Bill, including in relation to who is consulted.

On new clauses 6 and 7, while the Government are committed to protecting children from the risk of harms through addiction, our approach across all products in the Bill is for age to be verified at the point of sale, not at the point of use. Mandating any age-gating technology for vapes would create harsher restrictions on vaping than smoking. That could make vapes less accessible and attractive to adult smokers wishing to quit and use vapes as a smoking cessation tool.

I recognise the concerns of the hon. Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman) about online sales. However, it would not be proportionate to ban all online sales because that would impact on those retailers seeking to operate within the law.

As was discussed in Committee, going back to the issue of wider enforcement, new clause 18 and amendment 89 do not reflect the complex processes required to develop the licensing scheme in England and Wales. Although I am sympathetic to the shadow Secretary of State’s aims, rushing to publish draft regulations within two months of Royal Assent would risk creating flawed policy.

I pay tribute to colleagues in the Scottish Government, Welsh Government and the Northern Ireland Executive. This UK-wide Bill has been developed in partnership with them, and I thank them for their support. Our manifesto committed to resetting our relationship with the devolved Governments, and this Bill is a great success in demonstrating collaboration across Governments in improving the health of the nation.

[Jim Allister]

Since the tobacco directive applies to Northern Ireland under the protocol through section 7A of the 2018 Act and applies directly, and the directive forbids the type of proposition in this Bill, would the Minister care to explain to the House how this Bill will be applicable in Northern Ireland as long as the tobacco directive applies?

[Ashley Dalton]

This Bill has been put together, as I said, with collaboration across all the Governments and bearing in mind all the Government’s legal obligations under the law. All those things have been taken into account, and the Bill is able to be brought forward in that way. Our manifesto committed to delivering the smokefree generation, and we are working across all Governments to ensure that we deliver that, as well as honouring our international obligations. As a result, the Government do not consider new clause 3 tabled by the hon. and learned Member for North Antrim (Jim Allister) to be necessary. That is because we are content that measures drafted in the Bill that apply in relation to Northern Ireland are consistent with our obligations under the Windsor framework, and the proposed new clause would put us in breach of international law. In the drafting of the Bill, as I have stated, we have considered all its domestic and international obligations, and it is for those reasons that the Government cannot support new clause 3.

The Bill will bring about a real change by creating a smokefree generation. As we have discussed, there is no liberty or choice in addiction, and almost all smokers want to quit and two thirds wished they had never started. I started smoking at the age of 16 and decided I would stop when I was 18—I could not stop. I thought, “I know, I’ll stop when I am 21” and then it was 25, then it was when I graduated, and then it was when I had a child. At no point was I able to give up this pernicious addiction. It took a cancer diagnosis to scare me into being able to stop smoking, and I do not wish that on any of our young people.

In conclusion, many of the amendments are unnecessary because the Bill already grants the Government the power to take forward the issue through the more appropriate route of secondary legislation. This is a landmark Bill: the most significant public health intervention in a generation. It strikes the right balance on the interests of public health by being proportionate and not overly burdensome. It allows the Government to bring forward the appropriate primary and secondary legislation to ensure that we can deliver a smokefree generation that protects all our children from the addiction of tobacco, a uniquely harmful substance.

Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill (Money)

Jim Allister Excerpts

Money resolution
Wednesday 22nd January 2025 Commons Chamber

[Jim Allister (North Antrim) (TUV)]

There is no more important function for Members of this House than that of being the guardians of public money. It is very hard to equate the performance of that function with signing a blank cheque, and yet that is what we are being asked to do today. One thing is abundantly clear: if this Bill passes, it will bring with it a huge financial burden in perpetuity.

[Lewis Atkinson]

On that point, will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Jim Allister]

I would be happy to do so in a moment.

It is quite clear that the measures will impose huge costs on the health and justice budgets. Given the provisions in the Bill, is it impossible for that not to be the consequence, so when the Treasury Minister produces the financial information, will he include current Government expenditure on palliative care and suicide prevention, so that we can look at and balance what we are spending? The Bill invites the Government to move from funding charities to prevent suicide to becoming facilitators and providers of suicide.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

Order. Mr Allister, we must confine our remarks to the money resolution for the Bill.

[Jim Allister]

Madam Deputy Speaker, I was seeking to do that by asking the Treasury Minister to give us a comparison. What is this Bill going to cost our health service and justice system? How does that compare with what we are already spending on palliative care and suicide prevention? Those are pertinent questions and we need the answers.

[Carla Lockhart (Upper Bann) (DUP)]

It is mind-blowing that there is no money to pay for winter fuel payments or to support the Women Against State Pension Inequality campaign, yet the House is about to approve the provision of a bottomless pot of money to create a state-funded, gold-plated assisted suicide service.

[Jim Allister]

I agree. We all have our views on the merits of the Bill, but fundamentally we have a duty to our constituents to handle public money properly. In handling that money, we must know how much the Bill will cost. When it comes to that financial statement, it must not be fudged or opaque; it must be absolutely clear and it must—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

Order. I must now call the Minister.

Puberty-suppressing Hormones

Jim Allister Excerpts

Wednesday 11th December 2024 Commons Chamber

[Wes Streeting]

The hon. Member points back to the waiting list, which currently has 6,237 people on it. I do not think it is too much to expect the NHS to have a relationship with each of those young people and to make sure that they are receiving some support and care while they are waiting. I have been given assurances that support is offered to young people on the waiting list, and I continue to monitor that like a hawk. I am grateful for representations I receive from across the House from right hon. and hon. Members’ casework, and I am happy to pick up individual cases.

As for the most catastrophic failures of children and young people, I reassure all right hon. and hon. Members that all child deaths, whatever the circumstances—suicide has been mentioned—undergo a multi-agency review by a child death overview panel, and that information is reported to the national child mortality database. There is a monthly exercise by NHS officials to check the waiting list against NHS records, so we do monitor the situation closely, and the mental health and wellbeing of this particular cohort of children and young people is both very close to my heart and very close to my gaze.

[Jim Allister (North Antrim) (TUV)]

I certainly welcome the Secretary of State’s extension of the ban on the prescription of puberty blockers. I want to ask him whether he has more information for us on the criteria that will apply for entry into the clinical trials. Will there, for example, be a minimum age? Will parental consent be required? Both those things seem to be important, so may I have assurance on those two points?

[Wes Streeting]

The details of the trial are still being worked through. They will be and are subject to a robust ethical approvals process. Only once final ethical approval is granted is the final study design set in stone. As such, I cannot comment on the finer details at this time, but I just reassure the hon. and learned Member that the issues he raises are very much under consideration in the design of the trial.

Tobacco and Vapes Bill

Jim Allister Excerpts

2nd reading
Tuesday 26th November 2024 Commons Chamber

[Jim Allister (North Antrim) (TUV)]

I will vote for this Bill. I admit that I am sceptical about the enforceability of the age escalator, but fundamentally the legislation addresses a huge problem in our society. There can be no doubt that smoking is a killer, so it is our responsibility to seek to diminish the death toll. Vaping is a totally unregulated sector, and I fear that it is a gateway to smoking for many young people. Therefore, it is right that it, too, comes within the ambit of the Bill.

The Secretary of State said this afternoon that this is a “four-nations Bill”. I welcome that, and I trust that it is right. That is the point I want to test in my contribution, and I will seek reassurance from the Minister about it. The reason I want to test it is that Northern Ireland, and Northern Ireland alone, is still subject to the EU’s tobacco directive. We are subject to the EU’s tobacco directive because it is one of the 289 EU laws listed in annex 2 of the protocol—or the Windsor framework, as it is now called—that remain in force in a part of this United Kingdom. Article 24 of the tobacco directive says:

“Member States may not…prohibit or restrict the placing on the market of tobacco or related products”.

Does this Bill, by its necessary steps, restrict the placing on the market of tobacco? If it does, it will fall foul of the tobacco directive and will therefore be unenforceable in Northern Ireland, because of our ridiculous subjection to foreign laws that we do not make and cannot change.

We have an illustration of what might happen, because in 2022 Denmark sought to introduce almost identical legislation. It had to withdraw it, and in withdrawing it, the Health Minister told the Danish Parliament on 6 April 2022:

“The ministry…therefore considers that a ban on the sale of tobacco and nicotine products to people born in 2010 or later would require an amendment to the European Tobacco Products Directive”.

On that basis, they withdrew it. Earlier this year, the Irish Republic was minded to introduce legislation like this, but it did not proceed for the same reason.

If we are in a situation where a part of this United Kingdom quite absurdly cannot be governed by laws that this Parliament wishes to make, we are in a very sad situation indeed. It is my fear that, like in Denmark, the imprimatur would not be forthcoming from the tobacco directive and we could therefore have a situation where laws that we want to make and apply throughout the United Kingdom cannot be applied because of our subservience to foreign jurisdiction. If that is so, it will be an appalling situation. The House will have an opportunity to do something about this when my private Member’s Bill comes before it on 6 December, and I trust that Members will take that opportunity to liberate Northern Ireland from the bind of foreign jurisdiction and foreign law.

There are vested interests who will try to challenge the Bill’s applicability in Northern Ireland because of the tobacco directive, and I am fearful of the line that the courts might take, because we have had some examples. This House passed—for better or for worse—the Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Act 2023. It also passed the Safety of Rwanda (Asylum and Immigration) Act 2024. I am not commenting on their merits; I am making it clear that when they went to the High Court in Belfast, both were declared inoperable in Northern Ireland. Why? Because of the supremacy of EU law.

If that were to happen with this Bill, it would be an absolute scandal. We would not be able to afford the people of Northern Ireland the same health protections that the Bill will afford to everyone else in the United Kingdom. And why not? Because we are subject to a foreign jurisdiction. It is the lifting of that jurisdiction that will bring us liberty to be governed as this House would wish us to be governed, and I trust that the Minister will be able to assure us that those fears are unfounded, that the Danes were wrong to withdraw their Act, and that our courts will—

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Andrew Gwynne)]

I am grateful to the hon. and learned Gentleman for giving way. I fully understand his concern. That is why this Government need to give credit to the previous Government, who worked so hard to make this a four-nation approach. I want to give him and the House the assurance that it is the responsibility of the UK Government to ensure the compatibility of the Bill with the Windsor framework. The Government have taken into account all domestic and international obligations in bringing forward this Bill today.

[Jim Allister]

It gives me no assurance if the Government’s commitment is to ensure compliance with the Windsor framework, because it is the Windsor framework that imposes EU law on Northern Ireland. Because the tobacco directive is one of the laws listed in annex 2 that continue to apply to Northern Ireland, it could trump this Bill. There is no point in the Government saying to this House, or to my constituents, that they will abide by the Windsor framework, because the Windsor framework binds us to EU law. It is only by setting it aside that we can have liberty.

[Andrew Gwynne]

I am sorry to detain the House, but I make it clear that this is a United Kingdom law. It covers all four nations of the United Kingdom, and we are assured that it complies with the requirements of the Windsor framework. This law will stand.

[Jim Allister]

The previous Government told this House—and Government lawyers probably said the same—that the Rwanda Act would apply to Northern Ireland and that the legacy Act was unchallengeable, yet it turned out that both fell under the supremacy of EU law. On the face of it, the tobacco directive suppresses this Bill and still has legal force in Northern Ireland. If that is how it turns out, I would like to hear a commitment from the Minister that the Government will override any suppression of this law in Northern Ireland and stand up for UK sovereignty in my part of the United Kingdom.