Oral Answers to Questions

Jeremy Corbyn Excerpts

Tuesday 21st January 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

Absolutely, we must take account of events 10 or 11 years ago and make sure that we give encouragement to those in Iran who are in favour of better relations with the west and with the region. That has been one of the arguments for proceeding quickly with an agreement on an interim deal. Indeed that was one of the reasons for urgency, apart from the advances of the Iranian nuclear programme, in coming to that deal, so I hope that we can now build on that, and we will make every effort to do so.

[Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab)]

Will the Foreign Secretary focus his attention on the issue of nuclear proliferation? In welcoming the interim agreement with Iran, does he not accept that it is now important to press ahead with the possibility of a non-proliferation treaty-led conference for a nuclear weapons-free region as a whole, and to use the current good atmosphere to achieve that outcome?

[Mr Hague]

Yes, I do accept that. That was an important outcome, promoted by the United Kingdom, of the NPT review conference in 2010. The progress that we are making with Iran is an additional argument in favour of bringing together that conference. There has been some renewed diplomatic momentum behind this over the past couple of months, which we are encouraging. Therefore, I very much hope that, over the course of this year, we will be able to make some serious progress on this.

Bangladesh

Jeremy Corbyn Excerpts

Thursday 16th January 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Main]

My hon. Friend accompanied the team and did a very able job, along with the hon. Members for Rochdale, for Bethnal Green and Bow (Rushanara Ali), for Stalybridge and Hyde (Jonathan Reynolds) and for Birmingham, Ladywood (Shabana Mahmood). We managed to prise out of businesses—some of which did not wish to be identified—their concerns and they are reflected in our report, which we submitted to the Department for International Development. It says that we

“were concerned about the complacent belief in Bangladesh that”

the ready-made garment industry

“will continue to invest in the country for the foreseeable future”,

and that businesses were concerned about the infrastructure problems.

Every building in Bangladesh is liable to collapse in an earthquake, apart from—I am pleased to say that at least our staff will be safe—the high commission building. Many of the buildings that have been turned into garment factories are unsafe in their construction, were never designed for the purposes for which they are being used and are poorly inspected and poorly built, which is threatening this vital economy.

We have suggested that other markets, such as Morocco, Ethiopia and Burma, would be viable alternatives. Political instability, disruption caused in the provision of power and gas and failing infrastructure are all key factors in the slow down of an undeniably excellent growth record.

[Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab)]

I pay tribute to the hon. Lady for her work as chair of the all-party group. I agree with her points about the garment industry. Will she comment on the disturbing reports of attacks on religious minorities, particularly Hindus and Christians, over the past few weeks that have resulted in a large number of deaths?

[Mrs Main]

The hon. Gentleman is another member of the all-party group to whom I pay tribute for his sterling work in raising concerns about this issue. We had a presentation from religious minority groups on how persecuted they are. Unfortunately, it is a failing of any democracy when people are not free to express their religion and belief. Bangladesh is a secular country that has many Muslim believers, but many other religions as well. In 1971, it had the proud aim that it would remain secular. It is also a proud member of the Commonwealth. It is a disservice to that country that people from minority religions now feel so oppressed and intimated, with their temples being daubed and disrupted.

--- Later in debate ---

[Rushanara Ali]

I could not agree more with my hon. Friend, who has a long-term interest in countries such as Bangladesh, not least because of his interest in climate change but also because of his interest in the economic development challenges that he rightly mentions. Britain is one of the top investors in Bangladesh, and we have major multinationals that operate there. The current violence stands to put that investment at risk, as the all-party delegation found when we visited recently.

As has been highlighted today, the lack of stability and the lack of focus on investment and on achieving the conditions needed for trade will undermine economic and social development in Bangladesh. It is scandalous and unforgiveable that those in positions of power, of whichever political party, cannot put their differences behind them and focus on the interests, both economic and social, of the country and its people. All political leaders in Bangladesh must face up to that responsibility. That is not about us wringing our hands. Everyone understands that the history of Bangladesh is marred by bloodshed and sacrifice across the political spectrum. The point is that that cycle of violence must stop. Too many lives have been lost and too much is at stake, not only for Bangladesh, but for all of Asia and the international community, for the reasons I have mentioned.

[Jeremy Corbyn]

During the delegation and the meetings with the Prime Minister, was there any discussion of the normality of an interim Government to oversee elections?

[Rushanara Ali]

Members from both sides of the House have on a number of occasions raised the need for interim measures to secure and guarantee free and fair elections. Some raised the need for caretaker Governments, which have served the country well in the past. As the hon. Member for Gillingham and Rainham (Rehman Chishti) mentioned, other countries such as Pakistan have followed that lead and have expressed their disappointment that the system has been removed.

--- Later in debate ---

[Simon Danczuk]

That is an excellent point. The impression one gets from visiting Bangladesh is, as the hon. Gentleman says, that people have a strong desire for democratic politics and view politics in a positive light. It seems almost ironic that we should end up with the country in the position it is in now.

My second major concern about Bangladesh is the violence. I am worried that violence could escalate even further in the coming weeks and months. We have seen from around the world that when opposition groups are excluded from the political process, there is a risk of the more moderate groups being squeezed out, with extremists on all sides gaining greater prominence. We can see that from experience in Northern Ireland and, more recently, in Syria.

[Jeremy Corbyn]

In the elections my hon. Friend encountered on his visit to Bangladesh, did the issue of the maintenance of a secular constitution come up? Does he agree that an important fact in the country’s history is that it is a secular constitutional democracy?

[Simon Danczuk]

That issue did not come up during my visit, so far as I can recall, but my hon. Friend is right to point out that this could be viewed as a healthy aspect of Bangladesh’s politics.

My third and final worry concerns economic development. In recent years, as has been pointed out, the country has made great strides forward in that respect. Gross domestic product growth has been at 6.1% and Bangladesh is on track to meet the goal of halving income poverty by 2015. Despite that, Bangladesh is not a rich country. As I have seen for myself, millions live in desperate poverty.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab)]

Along with others, I welcome this debate, and pay tribute to those who applied for it and to the all-party group on Bangladesh. I have a substantial, but not huge, Bangladeshi community in my constituency, and I have had close relationships with them and with the wider Bangladesh community for all the time I have been an MP.

I agree that we cannot change the tragedy of the history of Bangladesh, but it is worth recalling a couple of highly significant points in its history. It was originally created as East Pakistan during the tragedy of partition in 1947, and there was a tragic loss of so many lives in the wars that followed. To divide a country called Pakistan by 1,000 miles of another country was inevitably going to lead to an unstable relationship and problems. The many uprisings in what later became Bangladesh against Pakistani rule and the abuse of power by the authorities in East Pakistan led to the war in 1971, and eventually the success of the Mukti Bahini forces, which brought about the independence and recognition of Bangladesh.

It is true that disgraceful atrocities were committed during that war and that very large numbers of people died. It is also absolutely correct that those who commit atrocities should be brought to justice however long that takes. That surely is what we believe in when we hold international war crimes tribunals. In that sense, it is right that the Government of Bangladesh, led by Sheikh Hasina, set up the war crimes tribunal. My concern, and that of many others, was over the difficulties that international observers faced in observing those trials. Concerns were expressed about them and the execution of one very prominent person that followed the tribunal. Apparently, there was indifference by the Government of Bangladesh to universal concerns around the world about the use of the death penalty. Let me reiterate that I for one cannot accept the death penalty in any circumstances or on any occasion. The message has to be that justice and the judicial system must be seen to be independent. However, I endorse the point that Governments are entitled to operate a war crimes tribunal and use their judiciary to look at atrocities that have been committed. They should also ensure that all witnesses and legal representatives are secure and safe, that there are international observers and that international norms are followed.

The more recent history of Bangladesh is about the economic problems that the country faces. It has a large population and is one of the largest countries in the world. It faces enormous environmental challenges from water supply—either over-supply or under-supply of fresh water—and the problems of managing a river system that emanates from a neighbouring country and of rising sea levels and the dangerous floods that occur as a result.

Bangladesh also has an economic model that is difficult to sustain. It wants to become part of the world trade system by exporting garments, and I applaud that, but the problem is that with the beggar thy neighbour policies of the World Trade Organisation, the garment industry quickly moves itself from one low-wage economy to another, to another and so on. We now have the prospect of Chinese companies opening factories in Bangladesh because wages in China, while very low, are relatively high compared with those in Bangladesh. If Bangladesh then raises its wages to any decent level, the danger is that the garment industry will up sticks and go somewhere else. We have to think about the cheap clothes that we buy on the high streets of this country, and indeed of the United States and the rest of Europe, and the appalling working conditions that are behind all that.

[Mrs Main]

That was the focus of the all-party report. The few extra dollars or pence that would be needed to give a fair wage was not an issue to those who were involved in the garment industry. It was the whole infrastructure deficit that was more likely to drive businesses away. The problem is not in paying the workers in Bangladesh but in the Government not tackling the infrastructure deficit, which is making businesses question their presence there.

[Jeremy Corbyn]

To their credit, the Government of Bangladesh did increase the basic minimum wage, and that was welcome. None the less, I have attended meetings with the International Labour Organisation and trade unions from this country and Bangladesh about the abominable working conditions and safety of buildings, to which the hon. Lady rightly drew our attention, and the loss of life as a result of fire. We must bear all that in mind.

Before I conclude, let me turn to the violence that has been committed against human rights activists and religious and ethnic minorities, and to the numbers of people who have disappeared over the last few months and years. There can be no acceptance anywhere in the world that it is legitimate to persecute people. In the case of Bangladesh, the persecuted happen to be Christians or Hindus, but it would be no more correct for any other society to pursue and persecute people because they are Muslims. Surely the norm of the United Nations universal declaration of 1948 was that one accepts and respects religious and ethnic diversity in any and every society. I welcome the fact that Bangladesh’s constitution of 1971 is a secular one and guarantees rights of religious assembly and religious freedom, but the reality is that forces and gangs—in some cases funded elsewhere, and in some cases parastatal—have been killing and persecuting religious minorities, which is simply not acceptable. We must send out a strong message to that effect.

My final point is about how a democracy works. A democracy works if there is an open, free and fair electoral system. It also requires an independent judiciary, an independent media, security for those who are reporting, and the right of assembly and of free speech. All those things have been challenged in Bangladesh, and the violence and the deaths that we have seen are simply not acceptable.

When the election took place, the Awami League was inevitably going to win it, because the Opposition simply did not participate. I have read the Awami League report on the elections, and I can kind of see the point that it is making, but it hardly confers legitimacy on a Government when the Opposition do not take part, so we can hardly say that it was a democratic representation of the will of the people. Indeed, I have had it said to me by people in the London Bangladeshi community that the BNP might well have won the election had it taken part. I do not know whether that is the case, but we do know that the current impasse has to be broken in some way. There have to be talks with all the parties and there has to be freedom of movement of all political leaders and an acceptance that what has happened is really not a credible way for the Government of Bangladesh to continue to behave. It is not for us to say what should happen, but if there are to be legitimate talks with all political parties and representatives, there is likely to be a call for fresh elections.

Human rights, peace and democracy are at stake. Sadly, many of the very poorest people in Bangladesh live in disgraceful and appalling conditions. Working conditions are appalling and we look to a strong democracy in Bangladesh and support from the rest of the world to conquer that poverty and bring about a decent life for the people of Bangladesh. That is what the war of 1971 was about. It was not about the discrimination and the killing of people because of their views.

--- Later in debate ---

[Kerry McCarthy]

Given that the report has been submitted to DFID, it would not be my place to respond on its behalf, but my colleagues in the shadow DFID team, my hon. Friends the Members for Wirral South (Alison McGovern) and for Luton South (Gavin Shuker), are doing a lot of work on how we can make the high street more ethical. I am sure that we can work on that on a cross-party basis and with the support of those such as the all-party group.

My hon. Friend the Member for Bethnal Green and Bow (Rushanara Ali) spoke from her unique perspective as the sole Member of the House of Bangladeshi origin—indeed, she was born in the country. She spoke eloquently about the frustration that is felt by members of the community over here. No matter which political party they may be aligned with or which party they may want to win the election, they all have a desire to see political stability and order restored in Bangladesh, not least because the current situation is putting at risk the economic investment that is lifting the country out of poverty. She made a powerful plea for people in power to put their political differences behind them in the country’s interests and said that the country’s politics is holding it back. My hon. Friend the Member for Rochdale echoed those sentiments, as did the hon. Member for Tiverton and Honiton (Neil Parish).

I thought at one point that the hon. Member for Cheltenham (Martin Horwood) was after a free meal in one of the curry houses in his constituency. I hope that he name-checked all of them and did not leave anyone out or he will be given a cold welcome next time he visits. He talked about the impact of aid and the contribution made by the diaspora, as did the hon. Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman).

My hon. Friend the Member for Luton South, who speaks as someone with not just a significant Bangladeshi diaspora in his community, but in his role as a shadow DFID spokesman, talked about the Department. The last thing we want to do is to abandon a country just because the democratic process is not perfect, but we need to see how FCO and DFID funding, and the work taking place in the country, can be pulled together so that it is about supporting better political engagement and strengthening governance to ensure that aid money for poverty projects is well delivered, going into the right hands and benefiting the people. The hon. Member for Bedford (Richard Fuller) was entirely right to raise concerns about extra-judicial killings and the Rapid Action Battalion, about which I was talking to somebody only the other day.

Let me turn to the human rights situation. Last year, as a result of political violence, Bangladesh was added to the FCO’s human rights report as a case study. It is estimated that 500 Bangladeshis were killed in political violence in 2013, with injury caused to thousands of others, predominantly associated with the international crimes tribunal’s investigations into the 1971 war. I have seen harrowing reports. Human Rights Watch has documented evidence that the security forces were responsible for some of the deaths during the protests. It is imperative that those responsible are held to account. The incidents provided further evidence of the need to promote freedom of expression and association in Bangladesh. People in Bangladesh and some external observers have argued that the tribunal process is flawed, and there are troubling reports that at least one witness has been attacked and killed.

The verdicts have led to the death penalty. As my hon. Friend the Member for Islington North said, most of us are united across this House in condemning the use of capital punishment in all cases. I know that that is not a unanimous view, but I think I am right in saying that it is probably a majority view. Labour Members regard the death penalty as inhumane. As in the case of the execution of Abdul Quader Molla of the Jamaat-e-Islami party last month, it serves only to heighten tensions and spark further violence. The Government therefore have our full support in calling on Bangladesh to implement a moratorium on the use of the death penalty and to uphold the international covenant on civil and political rights. It is important, especially now that we are members of the Human Rights Council, that the abolition of the death penalty continues to be raised at the council and with our Commonwealth partners.

As has already been mentioned, the people of Bangladesh had our deepest sympathies following the Rana Plaza factory disaster last April, in which 1,100 people lost their lives and 2,500 were injured. We have discussed the protection of ILO standards within the garment industry and the hidden human costs associated with the ability to buy high street products in the UK at such a low price. I commend the TUC, among others, for its work with retailers to secure support for an accord to fund an independent and much-needed health and safety inspection body for Bangladeshi factories.

[Jeremy Corbyn]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for pointing out the role of the TUC. Will she also commend War on Want for its support for the garment workers and its practical support for helping union organisation in Bangladesh which, at the end of the day, is the best way to bring about health and safety in the workplace?

[Kerry McCarthy]

I agree entirely. I gave War on Want a little name check earlier, along with Labour Behind the Label, which also does excellent work. My hon. Friend has pointed out that China is now moving production to Bangladesh because it is even cheaper to produce garments there than in China. How do we tackle the issues involved? How do we raise terms and conditions, wages and living standards in countries such as Bangladesh in such a way that production is not displaced to another country that will undercut it even further? The only way that can be achieved is by implementing ILO standards universally so that there is not a race to the bottom and everything is about quality and maintaining good standards across the board.

The UK was a founder member of the ILO and, given the Government’s professed commitment to business and human rights—they published their action plan in September—it is important that the UK does more to work with the international community and British businesses to promote worker safety and employee rights with our partners overseas. Our immediate focus, however, must be on how we can secure peaceful and open elections in Bangladesh so that the people can express their political will in a democratic ballot. I am keen to hear the Minister’s assessment of the 5 January elections, of the role he sees the international community playing in trying to address some of the issues that arose from them—not just the violence, but the fact that many people in Bangladesh feel that democracy was not served—and of what we can do to ensure that democracy is better served in the future.

[The Minister for Europe (Mr David Lidington)]

I pay tribute to all those who have contributed to the debate: my hon. Friends the Members for St Albans (Mrs Main), for Cheltenham (Martin Horwood), for Bedford (Richard Fuller), for Harrow East (Bob Blackman) and for Tiverton and Honiton (Neil Parish), and the hon. Members for Bethnal Green and Bow (Rushanara Ali), for Rochdale (Simon Danczuk), for Poplar and Limehouse (Jim Fitzpatrick), for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn), for Luton South (Gavin Shuker) and for Bristol East (Kerry McCarthy).

Listening to the speeches of Members from different political parties, I have been struck that they share a common commitment to and a passion—I do not think that is too strong a word—for the well-being, future prosperity and stable democratic development of Bangladesh. Coupled with that sense of commitment, we heard in a number of speeches a sense of frustration, impatience and almost anger at times at how difficult it has been to make such progress, and especially at the events of the recent parliamentary election.

The Government believe that it is peaceful and credible elections expressing the genuine will of the voters that are the true mark of a mature and functioning democracy. The facts are that on Sunday 5 January, parliamentary elections were held in Bangladesh in accordance with the constitution, as a number of hon. Members have said, but regrettably they took place without the opposition 18-party alliance, for the reasons that have been debated extensively. As a consequence, we were left with a situation in which just over half the seats were uncontested, which denied more than 46 million out of 92 million voters any say at the ballot box, and even in the contested elections turnout was low. That is an unsatisfactory and deeply disappointing outcome.

The day after the elections, 6 January, my right hon. and noble Friend Baroness Warsi issued a public statement making those points and condemning the acts of intimidation and unlawful political violence. It has been reported that no fewer than 500 people lost their lives because of political violence during 2013. Twenty-one deaths were reported on polling day and more than 100 polling centres, many of them schools in very poor rural areas, were burned down. The Government are shocked and saddened by the high number of deaths and we urge all Bangladeshi political parties to take responsibility for the situation and to look actively for solutions through dialogue, not through political harassment and violence.

All of Bangladesh’s political parties share a clear and unequivocal responsibility to work together to strengthen democratic accountability as an urgent priority and to build the willingness and capacity for Bangladesh to hold fully participatory parliamentary elections without the fear of intimidation or reprisals. I am pleased that the Bangladesh Nationalist party has announced a suspension of its blockade programme and that Begum Zia has publicly condemned violence, including attacks on minorities. That is a positive step, although we would welcome further bold moves by both political parties that lead to dialogue between them. Above all, it is important that the political parties put the interests of the Bangladeshi people first.

I have been asked by a number of hon. Members, particularly my hon. Friend the Member for Cheltenham and the hon. Member for Poplar and Limehouse, about action since the elections. The Bangladeshi Government were only sworn in on 12 January and as yet no Foreign Minister has been announced. I will preface my comments on this issue by saying that we think that representations are not always best made through a megaphone in public, but I assure the House that our views on the electoral process and the challenges facing Bangladesh and its political leaders are well known by both the Government and the opposition parties and that we continue, at all appropriate levels, to maintain contact. Our commitment to that intensive dialogue will continue. We also keep in close touch with our partners in the United States, Brussels and national capitals around the world.

Obviously it is for Bangladesh to decide to invite international observers, who have an important role to play in assessing the inclusiveness and fairness of elections. It is also essential, however, that the political conditions exist for observers to go about their work in safety and with full access to all stages of the electoral process. That was not possible this time in Bangladesh, but I hope very much that it will be the next time it holds elections.

My hon. Friends the Members for St Albans and for Bedford and the hon. Member for Islington North asked about disappearances and other reported and alleged human rights abuses. At Bangladesh’s universal periodic review at the United Nations Human Rights Council in April 2013, the United Kingdom called for a thorough and impartial investigation into enforced disappearances. We also argued that if credible evidence emerged, there should be prosecutions for all alleged abuses of human rights. That continues to be our position. We believe that any allegation of an abuse of human rights should be properly and impartially investigated, and that where there is credible and verifiable evidence against people, they should be held to account, through due judicial process, for those actions.

[Jeremy Corbyn]

I thank the Minister for making that point. Does he know when the universal periodic review response is due from Bangladesh and whether the Bangladesh Government have agreed to co-operate with the UPR based on the representations made by the UK and other Governments?

[Mr Lidington]

I cannot answer the hon. Gentleman now, but I will write to him on those details.

My hon. Friend the Member for St Albans was absolutely right to warn that political instability and feuding in Bangladesh will harm the country’s prospects of attracting the investment that its people so desperately need. I welcome her emphasis on the garment sector and the role of women in the economy. I will certainly draw to the attention of my right hon. and hon. Friends at the Department for International Development her wish for a formal response to the all-party group report. The Government regard the garment sector as vital for poverty reduction and for the economic empowerment of women. Through our aid programme, we provide just under £5 million to the International Labour Organisation to enhance worker safety in the ready-made garment sector in Bangladesh. I am sure that my right hon. and hon. Friends at DFID will keep under review other opportunities for providing similar help through the appropriate agencies.

Several questions were asked about the United Kingdom’s aid programme and the political situation in Bangladesh. Of course, aid is not the only way in which this country helps Bangladesh and tries to make it possible for its people to prosper. We have a flourishing and growing commercial relationship. The United Kingdom is one of the largest investors in Bangladesh, with about £2 billion provided in investment projects to date, and with 100 UK firms operating successfully right across Bangladesh. Our bilateral trade in goods doubled between 2006 and 2011, and we are now the third largest destination for exports from Bangladesh, with garments and seafood accounting for the bulk of total sales.

The aid relationship is, however, very important as well. The United Kingdom is the largest donor of bilateral grant aid to Bangladesh. It will amount to £275 million in the 2013-14 financial year. The aid programme is focused above all on the relief of the chronic and desperate poverty of far too many millions of people in Bangladesh, as well as on programmes to improve the quality of drinking water and sanitation, and to help Bangladesh to adapt to the risks posed by climate change. I say to the hon. Member for Bethnal Green and Bow that we estimate that about 15 million people in Bangladesh have been helped directly by UK aid funding for extending flood early-warning systems.

[Official Report, 22 January 2014, Vol. 574, c. 1-2MC.]Most United Kingdom aid is channelled through non-governmental organisations and none is paid directly to the Bangladesh Government. It is true that about a third of our total aid programme ultimately goes to the Bangladesh Government’s health and education systems because, as we all know, help with primary health care and education are key to promoting the economic development and sustainable growth of a developing country. However, that one-third share is channelled via reputable NGOs, such as the United Nations, the World Bank and the Asian Development Bank, and money is paid out by our Government only once we have been given clear, accountable evidence that a project or programme in the education or health sector has been delivered. That aspect of our aid is delivered on a reimbursement basis.

Roughly 12.5% of United Kingdom aid goes to matters related to governance, although I again stress that it does not go directly to the Bangladesh Government or any individual political party. That element of our aid programme includes measures to enhance the taxpayer base in Bangladesh, which indirectly contributes to anti-corruption work in that country. The number of registered taxpayers has risen by 480,000, in part as a result of that element of the UK aid programme, and improving the technical side of the electoral system—the quality of the electoral register—is another aspect of it.

As some Members have urged, the Government, through the Department for International Development, will always keep their aid programme under review. I am sure that my colleagues in DFID have heard the questions posed about whether we need to review with particular rigour some parts of the Government’s spending in Bangladesh. I know that the commitment to a review is real, but I emphasise that I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Bedford, who said that we must not let our dissatisfaction with the political situation in Bangladesh lead us to decide to restrict aid in ways that penalise some of the poorest people on the planet, who are not responsible for decisions taken by Bangladesh’s party political leaders.

Bangladesh is an important partner of the United Kingdom, not least through the Commonwealth and our links to the British Bangladeshi community that contributes so much to our society. We continue to support the people of Bangladesh in their aspirations for a more stable, prosperous and democratic future. We urge all political leaders and parties in Bangladesh to shoulder their responsibilities to bring that about, and to commit themselves to a peaceful political process through constructive dialogue.

Syria

Jeremy Corbyn Excerpts

Monday 13th January 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

Yes, we can. I hope we can, and my hon. Friend will understand from what I am saying that I would like to be able to do so. I stress, however, that because of the difficulties that arose and the loss of control at the main depot in Bab al-Hawa, we had temporarily to put on hold the supplies of communications and logistics equipment we were sending in December. We will need to be assured that the restructuring of the supreme military council that is meant to be taking place over the coming days has satisfactorily addressed those problems, so that we can receive a high level of assurance in respect of the equipment we send.

[Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab)]

Along with my right hon. Friend the Member for Blackburn(Mr Straw), I was part of the all-party delegation to Iran last week, which I put on the record. I welcome the Foreign Secretary’s statement about the tentative nuclear agreement with Iran. If there is to be a successful Geneva II process, however, I agree with the former Foreign Secretary that it must involve Iran. If other countries are involved in the Syria talks and themselves support jihadist forces in the country, questions need to be asked about the amount of resources they are putting in. Why is it that the Foreign Secretary and, apparently, the United States are still opposed to Iran being part of the process, which can bring about a permanent peace and save a lot of lives?

[Mr Hague]

I can only reiterate what I said to the right hon. Member for Blackburn (Mr Straw)who asked about the same point: it is not a dogmatic opposition in principle; we simply want those who attend Geneva II to be there on the same basis. Let me put the argument another way. If we think back to the Geneva I communiqué, which is now the basis of the peace talks to come, I do not believe that, had Iran been present at that time, we would have been able to arrive at that agreement on creating a transitional governing body in Syria. We all hope, as the right hon. Member for Blackburn said, that there will be a change of policy, but it is necessary to have a little more evidence of such a change than we have seen so far in order for Iran to play a constructive role at Geneva II. We would be very pleased to see in the coming days further signals of a readiness to play such a constructive role.

North Korea

Jeremy Corbyn Excerpts

Monday 16th December 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Swire]

My right hon. and learned Friend, who speaks with considerable wisdom, is entirely right. Yes, containment is important, but equally we want the DPRK to halt its programme to develop nuclear capability in violation of every known international agreement. That is what this is about. We do not want North Korea to become a nuclear state. We cannot act unilaterally to prevent it, but we can act together with our partners in the six-party talks.

[Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab)]

I share the Minister’s horror at the execution last week and I condemn the death penalty in any circumstances anywhere, but it has served to highlight the abuse of human rights throughout North Korea. Have the six-party talks at any stage included a discussion about human rights? When they are resumed, will he ensure that human rights are brought into the equation?

[Mr Swire]

It is almost impossible to conceive any discussion involving the abuses of the regime in Pyongyang not including its horrific abuse of human rights—as I said in my opening remarks, perhaps currently the worst of any regime anywhere in the world.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jeremy Corbyn Excerpts

Tuesday 3rd December 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

Absolutely. I can readily give that guarantee. We have clearly made progress on the nuclear issue, with the interim agreement we have concluded, and are stepping up bilateral relations, but that in no way inhibits us from expressing our views on human rights. Iran continues to have one of the worst human rights records in the world for the treatment of journalists and minors, and for the continued house arrest of key opposition leaders. We will always feel free to raise those issues with Iranian leaders.

[Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab)]

May I take the Foreign Secretary back to his favourite subject, a nuclear weapons-free middle east? That has now become a greater possibility with an interim agreement with Iran. Will he update us on progress on a conference that would include Israel, which of course is the only country in the region that has declared nuclear weapons?

[Mr Hague]

I do not have an update beyond the one I gave the hon. Gentleman a couple of weeks ago, but I will keep in touch with him as he is extremely assiduous on this matter. I agree with his assessment that the interim deal achieved with Iran on the nuclear issue reinforces the case for, and brings closer, a conference for which he has long campaigned and which the United Kingdom would like to see.

Iran

Jeremy Corbyn Excerpts

Monday 25th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

I will look at those points as part of the step-by-step upgrading of our bilateral relations. It is possible that in some cases students could benefit from the new authorisation rules in the European Union that I mentioned. While Iran cannot operate the embassy with Iranian staff, we are considering it being able to increase the number of locally engaged staff who can help with such issues. There may be things that help people in that situation, but I will look at the issue in more detail.

[Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab)]

I thank the Foreign Secretary for his statement and draw his attention to what he said about momentum in the process in the region. I obviously hope that a detailed agreement is reached within six months. Will he now turn his attention to the need for a nuclear weapons-free middle east, and the importance of reconstituting the conference, which Finland was supposed to have held, involving all countries in the region? Without an agreement on a nuclear-free middle east, somebody will develop nuclear weapons or Israel will go on being unchallenged as the only nuclear weapons state in the region. This is urgent.

[Mr Hague]

As the hon. Gentleman knows, we are keeping our focus on that. I pay tribute to him for keeping his focus—relentlessly—in his questions in Parliament, but we are also keeping our focus and continuing our work to bring the conference together. If we can carry our success on this agreement through to the success of a comprehensive and final settlement, it will be a big advance towards what he has been campaigning for and remove more of the excuses of other nations against such discussions. I think, therefore, that he can view this as a step forward in that regard.

Iran’s Nuclear Weapons Programme

Jeremy Corbyn Excerpts

Tuesday 12th November 2013 Westminster Hall

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

Thank you for your presence in the Chair, Mr Sheridan, and I thank Mr Speaker for granting this debate. May I say how pleased I am to see a Minister from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office here at a Defence-allocated debate? I see it as good evidence of joint working between two important Departments. I am also delighted to see so many other eminent parliamentarians in the Chamber. I welcome interventions, hostile or friendly, during my remarks.

Iran’s nuclear weapons programme poses the greatest threat to global security that we face. Surprisingly, the issue is not being taken seriously enough in Parliament, or indeed by the international community. All eyes seem to be focused on Syria, Afghanistan or Somalia, when actually the greatest risk of a global conflagration comes from Iran. Iran simply cannot be allowed to have a nuclear weapon. There are elements within the regime who are mad and bad enough to use it, and their target could be Israel, Saudi Arabia or any number of other countries in the region or further afield. I contend that we must take the issue far more seriously, and that the longer it goes unresolved, the greater the risk that Iran will get a nuclear weapon or weapons and develop the ballistic technology to project the weapon not only in the region but further afield.

[Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab)]

The hon. Gentleman is generous in promising to give way, although he might regret it. He and I had an interesting week in the delegation to Gaza, and he is well aware of Israel’s behaviour concerning the encirclement of Gaza and the treatment of the Palestinian people. Israel, of course, is a nuclear-armed power. Does he not think that the key to the issue in that region is for Israel to divest itself of nuclear weapons to remove the potential for a nuclear arms race in the region?

[Mr Hollobone]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that question, and I enjoyed our joint visit to Gaza. He and I agree on many issues involving the Palestinian Authority and Israel. We can certainly agree that the situation must be resolved quickly and that the current US-led negotiations between the Israelis and Palestinians offer perhaps the best chance of resolving those issues since the state of Israel was founded.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Kettering (Mr Hollobone) on securing the debate and on kindly taking so many interventions, which was very welcome.

I say at the outset that I do not want the continuation of any wars in the region of Iran. I want a process that will bring about disarmament, so I approach the debate from that standpoint. I also approach it from the standpoint of a representative of an inner-London constituency, in which many Iranian refugees live. They form almost a timeline of the political changes in Iran: there are refugees from the Shah’s period, the Islamic revolution period and all the later regimes. The human rights abuses of Persian Iranians as well as of Kurdish people and others are very real to me and to the people in my constituency. I am not unaware of Iran’s appalling human rights record and the continuing executions that go on. Any pressure brought to bear on Iran must be as much about a dialogue about human rights as anything else.

I am acutely aware of the history and deep ignorance of Iran in the rest of the world. Many think that Iran is part of the Arab world, which it clearly is not, and many are simply unaware of the sense of anger there is at how Iran has been treated by the west ever since the end of the first world war.

There has been the exploitation of Iranian oil by the Anglo-Iranian Oil Corporation, which later became British Petroleum. Britain has made a huge amount of money out of Iran over the decades. Likewise, the coup—a UK and CIA operation—organised against the Mossadegh Government in 1952 is remembered, and people are angry about it. The support that we gave to the Shah, and that the Shah gave to BP, resulted in a loss of national well-being.

There is a history of which we should not be unaware, and we must think about those things. The Islamic revolution of 1979 was a product of an awful lot of those issues and that pressure, including the appalling behaviour of the SAVAK secret police under the Shah, which paralleled the behaviour of the secret police under the Ayatollah after the revolution. At the time, though, they were seen to be a step forward.

Then there was the Iran-Iraq war after the break with the USA, in which the west supported Iraq against Iran. That terrible conflict cost the lives of hundreds of thousands of people—possibly 500,000 people. It was an utterly useless and ghastly war. I recall visiting the border area between Iran and Iraq some years later and was taken to a glorified scrap metal yard, which was in fact heaps of old planes, tanks and armoured personnel carriers that bore the markings of every arms manufacturer in the world bar none. The people of Iran and Iraq have suffered a great deal.

We come now to the wish of Iran to develop its own nuclear power facilities. I do not think that Iran or any other country should develop nuclear power because it is an intrinsically dangerous form of power generation. I am probably in a minority in the Chamber in having that position, but that is my view. However, in law, Iran is certainly entitled to develop nuclear power for peaceful use, although it is certainly not entitled to develop nuclear weapons.

We then move on to whether Iran has nuclear weapons or the capability or intention of having them. Along with the hon. Member for Wyre and Preston North (Mr Wallace) and two others, I had an interesting discussion with the inspectors from the International Atomic Energy Authority in Vienna on behalf of the Iran group. It was a fascinating experience. The inspectors confirmed that, as of that time, Iran did not possess nuclear weapons and was not in a position to make nuclear weapons. It is important to make that clear.

Iran has a fatwa against nuclear weapons, imposed by the Grand Ayatollah, who said that it would be un-Islamic to develop nuclear weapons or weapons of mass destruction. Clearly, then, there are many people in Iran who are strongly opposed to the country having nuclear weapons. That is not to say that there are not people there who support them; I am sure that there are.

Iran is, and has been for a very long time, a signatory to the nuclear non-proliferation treaty. It is therefore open to inspection—not necessarily under the voluntary or supplementary protocols, but certainly within the terms of the mandatory part of the NPT. Every other country in the region is a signatory to it except Israel, which is the only one that possesses nuclear weapons; apparently, despite the Foreign Secretary’s unwillingness to answer this question yesterday, it has 200 nuclear warheads, which is rather more than Britain and France.

The nuclear non-proliferation treaty review conference envisaged a nuclear weapons-free middle east and tasked Finland with setting up a conference to bring that about. That conference did not take place, and, at last year’s preparatory conference for NPT review in Geneva, which I attended, we heard speeches from all the countries of the region. There was universal anger that this nuclear weapons-free middle east proposal had not been taken further forward.

The Egyptian delegation—this was before the coup in Egypt—made it clear that Egypt was extremely angry about that, and peremptorily withdrew from the conference. As yet it has not completely withdrawn from the non-proliferation treaty system. Other countries made it clear that they were also extremely angry. It is quite obvious that unless progress is made on a nuclear weapons-free middle east, which obviously must include Iran and Israel, then clearly Saudi Arabia, Egypt and others could start to develop nuclear weapons. If anyone has nuclear power, it is not impossible for them to extend that into getting nuclear weapons. We must be well aware of that.

Since the election of President Rouhani, there has been a narrative that he is a huge reformer and a liberal compared with everything that has gone before. He is certainly different from previous Presidents; he has a wish for a relationship and an understanding with the west, and I suspect that he is feeding into the wishes of an awful lot of ordinary Iranian people who also want to have a better relationship with the rest of the world. I am no less aware than anyone else here of the human rights abuses that have happened and continue to happen in Iran. However, such considerations do not restrict British negotiations or friendly relations with Bahrain, Saudi Arabia or many other places that have totally appalling human rights records. We should be condemnatory of human rights abuses wherever they occur across the whole region.

The non-intervention in Syria by Britain and the United States has had some interesting effects. One is that within a few days of the decision there were conferences with Lavrov and John Kerry. There was a serious discussion about removing chemical weapons from Syria—and that is now happening, which is good. There have been much more serious discussions about getting a Geneva II process under way, which clearly must involve Iran if it is to mean anything.

Surely, we should be saying to Iran that we do not want anyone to develop nuclear weapons in the region, that we will push really hard on getting a nuclear weapons-free zone conference to ensure that there is no requirement on anybody to have nuclear weapons and that we will include Iran fully in Geneva II. The rather strange insistence on the acceptance by Iran of everything to do with Geneva I—it is not clear what it does and does not agree with on that—should not be used as an obstacle to getting the country involved. Clearly, if there is to be a ceasefire and a long-term peace in Syria, it has to come about with the involvement of Iran as well as of Russia, all the forces in Syria, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and everybody else, otherwise the implications of massive flows of refugees and the carnage in Syria just continue. The danger then moves on to the possibility of a war with Iran.

We must negotiate with Iran. We must respect it and its culture, build a relationship with it and recognise that it is still a signatory to the nuclear non-proliferation treaty. The danger would be if it walked away from that treaty and chose to develop nuclear weapons, because Saudi Arabia would do the same and there would then be an arms race within the region. Some rather zany commentators in the US think that Iran should get nuclear weapons on the basis that it would create a regional balance and then we would move on. Balancing nuclear weapons terror is not a way to bring about peace.

I thank the hon. Member for Kettering for securing the debate, which is extremely helpful. I hope the Government will get the message that preparing to reopen diplomatic relations with Iran is welcome, as is the fact that discussions are going on. I look forward to the Minister’s reply, and I hope he will cover human rights in Iran, as well as nuclear power and the potential for others in the region to develop nuclear weapons.

I hope the Government will put serious effort into supporting the nuclear non-proliferation treaty to bring about the dream of a nuclear weapons-free zone across the middle east, because that would help to bring about a much longer-term peace throughout the region.

Iran and Syria

Jeremy Corbyn Excerpts

Monday 11th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

Absolutely. My hon. Friend is totally right about that. Of course, the purpose of our negotiations is to ensure that concrete actions are taken, even as part of an interim step, to give necessary assurances to the international community and to then allow us to negotiate a comprehensive settlement of this issue. That, of course, means dealing with all the concerns about what the International Atomic Energy Agency calls the “possible military dimensions” of Iran’s nuclear programme.

[Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab)]

Will the Foreign Secretary confirm that his strategy and that of the other allies around the table is for a nuclear weapon-free middle east? Is it not odd that in a very long statement he did not mention that Israel actually possesses nuclear weapons and a delivery system? Does he envisage a conference on a nuclear weapon-free middle east that will include, obviously, Iran and other countries, but in particular Israel? Otherwise, it would simply make no sense at all.

[Mr Hague]

I do envisage such a conference taking place. I did not mention that in my statement because there were many new things to report, but we have often discussed it in the House. We argued that there should be such a conference during the non-proliferation treaty review in 2010. There has been a small amount of progress in preparing the way for that in the past couple of weeks. I hope that we will have more to say about it in the next month or so.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jeremy Corbyn Excerpts

Tuesday 29th October 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

My hon. Friend is right to say that foreign intervention in Syria—directly so in the case of Iran—is helping to prop up a regime that is engaged in the brutal murder of huge numbers of its own people. That is now well known around the whole world. That policy will have to change if Iran is to play a constructive role in bringing peace to Syria.

[Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab)]

In the discussions with Iran, has the issue of a nuclear weapons-free middle east been raised? When it came up at the nuclear non-proliferation review conference, Iran supported that principle. A conference that would include Israel has been envisaged. Does the Foreign Secretary have any plans for such a conference, and any news on when it might take place?

[Mr Hague]

We do have plans for that. The hon. Gentleman and I have discussed this matter before and, as he knows, the United Kingdom was instrumental in putting a commitment to such a conference into the nuclear non-proliferation review in 2010. A Finnish facilitator has been hard at work trying to assemble the conference. The atmosphere in the middle east has not exactly been conducive to doing so, but the United Kingdom will continue to press for that conference to be brought together.

Middle East Peace Process/Syria and Iran

Jeremy Corbyn Excerpts

Tuesday 8th October 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

I can absolutely assure my hon. Friend that we will not lose focus. I thought it was important to report to the House on these three areas—the middle east peace progress, Syria and Iran—but I do think we need the full day’s debate that others have been asking for to cover all the issues. The future of Egypt is a vital foreign policy issue. I held discussions in New York with the new Foreign Minister of Egypt, and of course we continue to press the Egyptian authorities to implement a successful and inclusive transition that can bring together, in a future democracy, people of a very wide range of views. We are in close touch with the Egyptian authorities and will continue to push them very hard on that.

[Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab)]

I should like to add my thanks to the hon. Member for North East Bedfordshire (Alistair Burt) for all his work as a Minister and for his extraordinary courtesy towards the all-party parliamentary groups. I also welcome the new Minister of State, the right hon. Member for Faversham and Mid Kent (Hugh Robertson).

I welcome the Foreign Secretary’s statement on the change of direction in relations with Iran, which represents a huge improvement. Does he recognise that Iran remains a signatory to the nuclear non-proliferation treaty, and that the last review conference envisaged a nuclear weapons-free zone across the whole middle east? A conference was due to be held in Finland but it did not take place. Obviously, such a conference would have to include Iran and all the other nations, including the only nuclear weapons state in the region—namely, Israel. Will he assure the House that he and the Foreign Office still have an aspiration to have such a conference and that they will seriously push for it to be held as soon as possible? In this new atmosphere, the chance of achieving a nuclear weapons-free zone is surely one that should not be lost.

[Mr Hague]

That absolutely remains an aspiration of the Government but, as the hon. Gentleman knows, it has been very difficult to bring about. Britain strongly supported the idea at the nuclear non-proliferation treaty review conference in 2010, but it has not yet proved possible, despite the hard work of the Finnish facilitator, to bring together a conference on weapons of mass destruction in the middle east. However, we will continue our efforts to do so. If we make significant progress and achieve a breakthrough in the nuclear talks with Iran, that will greatly improve the atmosphere for bringing together such a conference.