Oral Answers to Questions

Ian Murray Excerpts

Wednesday 12th March 2014 Commons Chamber

The Minister for the Cabinet Office was asked—

[Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab)]

1. What his policy is on the deduction of trade union subscriptions from payroll in the civil service.

[The Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General (Mr Francis Maude)]

The deduction of trade union subscriptions from payroll through check-off is a matter delegated to Departments in the civil service.

[Ian Murray]

The civil service has used check-off for the last 30 years. Indeed, large companies such as BAE Systems and Rolls-Royce use it as a very efficient way to deduct trade union subscriptions from salary. Is this not just another ideological attack? Removing check-off from the civil service payroll will cost many times more than running the current system for hundreds of years.

[Mr Maude]

As I say, it is a matter for Departments to decide for themselves. A number of trade unions take the view that it is much better to have a direct relationship with their members than to have it intermediated through the employer—it is a rather more modern way to run things.

Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership

Ian Murray Excerpts

Tuesday 25th February 2014 Commons Chamber

[Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab)]

I thank the Backbench Business Committee for scheduling the debate. Let me also echo the tributes paid by many other Members to my right hon. Friend the Member for Wentworth and Dearne (John Healey) and the hon. Member for Aberconwy (Guto Bebb)—who is present—for taking such an interest in the issue, along with their colleagues in the all-party parliamentary group on European Union-United States trade and investment. If it had not been for them, we would probably not have had the two debates on this subject that have taken place in the House over the past seven or eight months. They have raised the issue to the top of the political agenda, and they should be applauded for that.

The TTIP has cross-party support in the House. Indeed, it is supported by a coalition of organisations including the CBI, the TUC and consumer groups. We should reflect on that, and ensure that we get things right. However, as we have already heard today, that is not to say that the TTIP does not involve significant problems.

[Julian Smith]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Ian Murray]

I will give way once to my—hon. Friend!

[Julian Smith]

I thank my hon. Friend. Following the point made by the right hon. Member for Wentworth and Dearne (John Healey), will he confirm that it is Labour policy not to oppose ISDS as it develops in relation to this agreement?

[Ian Murray]

I shall be unpicking some of the arguments during the short time available to me. I think that ISDS is the subject of one of the most important criticisms of this process, and I shall be interested to hear what the Minister has to say.

The TTIP has huge potential. The CBI has rightly described it as a “global economic game changer”. It can create more jobs here in the UK, improve the wages of British workers, and deliver a better deal for our consumers, but only if we get it right. As we have heard, according to some assessments the potential gain to British output is between £4 billion and £10 billion, equating to between 1% and 3% in exports. We must, however, be cautious about the overall figures, as they have been questioned by some leading academics. My right hon. Friend the Member for Wentworth and Dearne has been asking for an area-by-area assessment, and I think that such an assessment would allow Members to sell the deal to their constituents. Perhaps the Minister will reflect on that.

Given that the European Union and the United States account for 40% of global economic output and that their bilateral economic relationship is already the world’s largest, the opportunities are clear for all to see. Between them, they contain more than 800 million consumers, and the TTIP has significant potential for them as well. It is clear from the helpful briefing sent to all Members by Which? that there will be big prizes for them if we can get this right. Opposition Members strongly support the principles behind the negotiations, and hope that their objectives—job creation, better wages, higher standards and consumer benefits—can be realised. That, indeed, should be the focus of all EU activity.

With the fourth round of talks scheduled to take place next month, things are moving rather quickly, but we are worried about the potential for the talks becoming derailed. Legitimate concerns raised by Members in all parts of the House about some aspects are not being taken as seriously as we would like by the Government.

[Mr Jim Cunningham]

My hon. Friend has probably heard some of my colleagues say that the agreement will be all right provided that we have the necessary safeguards, such as employment rights. Multinationals should not be able to overrule an elected Government.

[Ian Murray]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I shall deal with some of those issues later in my speech, and I hope that the Minister will address them robustly.

The attempt to build momentum to get the deal through is understandable, given the political realities of the European elections in May, the fact that the European Commission is to be replaced this year and the very small issue of the US presidential election in 2016. Europe and the US are our most important markets. Indeed the US is the UK’s largest export market and the UK economy attracts a significant level of foreign direct investment from across the Atlantic, but we all recognise that more can be done to make it easier to tackle barriers and to improve market access. We hope that the trade agreement will do just that.

Crucially, the benefits of any trade deal must filter down to employees, SMEs and consumers. As my right hon. Friend the Member for Wentworth and Dearne has rightly said, the business case for the TTIP must be more than a case for business. He is absolutely right and in his speech he laid out in a measured way the issues that we should be looking at in assessing any final deal. I want to reflect on the four tests that he set. They are the thread that runs through the entire debate.

The first key test is the ability to deliver jobs and growth, with which I think we would all agree. Indeed, the EU should be focused solely on that issue. Secondly, the deal should be open and accountable. That reflects some of the other issues that have been raised by Labour Members. Thirdly, the aim should be to achieve the highest possible standards in respect of social and environmental concerns, data and wages. Fourthly, the agreement must allow leeway for national Governments to act in their own interests.

Through those four key tests, we will monitor closely the negotiations between the EU and the US, and the UK Government’s input into them. Likewise, we want the benefits that businesses experience to be passed on to consumers, whether through increased choice or reduced prices. It is rather puzzling that we have a Government who extol the virtues of the opportunities that the TTIP brings, yet ironically argue at the same time that we must leave Europe. Frankly, the TTIP is a shot across the bows for Tory Eurosceptics—a gang that the Minister has never been part of, for which he should be commended. The hon. Member for North Dorset (Mr Walter), who is no longer in his place, said clearly that it is in the UK’s interests to stay in the EU. I hope that the Minister will echo that when he responds to the debate. I firmly hope, however, that the UK is in the room for the negotiations and not carping from the room next door. This issue is far too important. That is why Labour will make the hard-headed, patriotic case, founded on the national interest, both for Britain in Europe and for change in Europe. To take up the benefits of an EU-US deal fully, we must be part of the EU.

Let me turn to some of the concerns that right hon. and hon. Friends have raised. First, they raised concerns about the ISDS aspects of the proposals, which have been well publicised and documented. Labour MEP colleagues and our sister parties in the socialists and democrats group in the European Parliament voted to scrap that mechanism, but they have faced an uphill battle in the EU Parliament dominated by Conservatives and a minority of MEPs. Therefore, we will continue to push for the need for effective and necessary transparency to be included in the final deal. As the BIS study conducted by the London School of Economics found, the ISDS would have little or no economic benefit and carries significant political risks. It is welcome, then, that the EU Trade Commissioner has decided to consult on that, which will give stakeholders an important opportunity to raise their concerns and increase the transparency of the deal. My right hon. Friend the Member for Wentworth and Dearne mentioned War on Want, which has rightly campaigned on the matter and I hope that the Minister will be robust in having the ISDS removed from the TTIP negotiations. Can he update the House on his current thinking on that and whether he will press strongly for that to be removed?

Secondly, as my right hon. Friend the Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham) has said, we are clear that the NHS must not be included in any agreement. In fact, all public services should be removed. In the UK, the demands of a 21st-century care system require integration. Markets are not the answer to the delivery of today’s health care. That would deliver something unwelcome in the form of fragmentation. The Government need to be clear on that, as they have sent out mixed messages to date. In response to my parliamentary question on 12 November last year, the Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, the right hon. Member for Sevenoaks (Michael Fallon), said:

“The Government has not sought to exclude health services from the scope of the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) negotiations.” —[Official Report, 12 November 2013; Vol. 570, c. 598W.]

That is in contrast to the response from Lord Green to the British Medical Association. He has also called for health care to be explicitly ruled out of the negotiations. He said that

“national interests, including those of the NHS, are protected.”

Those statements appear to me to be contradictory. Therefore, can the Minister set the record straight on the Government’s position on the NHS, public services and the negotiations that are ongoing? As I said, those are the areas that could result in the derailing of any agreement. If the Government would rule out the NHS now, we could move forward with more confidence and transparency in the agreement.

I have a couple of additional questions to put to the Minister. First, does he believe that agreement before the end of 2014 is possible or likely? Secondly, what representations have he or his colleagues made to the EU and its consultation on ISDS? Thirdly, what engagement are the Government having with businesses, charities, consumer groups and trade unions on the issue to garner support and involvement? Lastly, what engagement strategy are the Government planning with the public, as it is not difficult to see why organisations such as Which? and War on Want think that this deal is being negotiated in secret?

The size of the prize embodied in the agreement is considerable. It is a prize that must be shared among all—business, employees and consumers—and not just corporate interests. I hope that the Government will be able to respond positively to our concerns. I want to make it clear to the Minister that Labour Members are very much looking to co-operate. However, he should be aware that we will hold him to account and ensure that he does not give negotiators a free rein. I urge him to push for transparency so that the benefits of this major deal are clear for all to see.

Oral Answers to Questions

Ian Murray Excerpts

Wednesday 29th January 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I can, but I am sure that I should not comment on a case that is, I believe, currently being investigated. [Hon. Members: “Go on!”] No, don’t tempt me.

It is an important piece of law that we will be discussing on Thursday. We do not just need to have control at our borders; we need to ensure that people cannot come to Britain and abuse our health service, or get rights to council or other housing, or bank accounts or driving licences, if they have no right to be here. The Immigration Bill makes all those important changes and many more besides, including making it possible for us to deport people before they have appealed if they do not face a risk back in their own countries. They can then appeal from overseas. Those are all very good changes, and I hope that we will not delay too much before passing this important Bill.

[Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab)]

Q9. People in my constituency, and throughout the country, are working harder and harder just to make ends meet, as their pay is consistently outstripped by prices. Does the Prime Minister agree with the Business Secretary, who said this week that a property-fuelled recovery was the wrong sort of recovery? May I be helpful to the Prime Minister, and inform him that the answer is on page 37 of his folder?

[The Prime Minister]

I think the hon. Gentleman will find that the Business Secretary said that it was welcome that—in terms of our GDP growth—we have seen strong growth in manufacturing and industrial production, and not just in services. I think that is important.

If we are to ensure that we genuinely help people as our economy grows, we need to cut people’s taxes. The point is that we have cut people’s taxes because we have made difficult decisions about public spending. Every single one of those decisions has been opposed by the Labour party, but if we had listened to them, people would be in a more difficult situation in respect of the cost of living, rather than a better one.

Oral Answers to Questions

Ian Murray Excerpts

Wednesday 11th September 2013 Commons Chamber

[David Mundell]

There is one person in this Chamber who is on a zero-hours contract: the right hon. Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath (Mr Brown). I will take no lessons from the hon. Lady, because Labour did nothing about zero-hours contracts. I have set out clearly that BIS officials are reviewing the matter, because our policy is to have a flexible work force and fair employment policies.

[Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab)]

6. What assessment he has made of the potential effect on pensions of Scottish independence.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Scotland (David Mundell)]

The “Scotland analysis: Financial services and banking” paper considered private sector pensions. We will be examining state and public pensions in later papers in the series.

[Ian Murray]

The Institute of Chartered Accountants of Scotland highlighted that, on independence, cross-border defined benefit pension schemes would have to be fully funded, which would leave a deficit of some £230 billion. That was dismissed by the First Minister, who said that he would merely call for a derogation from the EU. Given that the Czech Republic has not only been refused that, but has been fined, what does the Minister think will happen to Scottish pension arrangements now and in the future?

[David Mundell]

Spending on state pensions and public sector pensions is driven by demographics and is set to rise. The UK Treasury and the Department for Work and Pensions absorb the risk of growth in demand and there would be more volatility in spending in an independent Scotland. Those are not my words, but the words of John Swinney. It is a pity that he said them in private, not in public.

Oral Answers to Questions

Ian Murray Excerpts

Wednesday 10th July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mike Penning]

The October investment conference that the Prime Minister will attend is the next step forward in showing normalisation and that Northern Ireland is a good place to invest. Before that, the world police and fire games—the second largest sporting event in the world—will be held in Northern Ireland, and 7,000 competitors and thousands of supporters will be in Northern Ireland to see how well it is doing.

[Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab)]

5. What assessment she has made of the potential effect of the devolution of corporation tax.

[The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mrs Theresa Villiers)]

We recognise the potential benefits of devolving corporation tax in Northern Ireland. We are continuing to consider the technical and financial implications of such a change, and will make a decision no later than the 2014 autumn statement on whether to devolve rate-setting powers.

[Ian Murray]

There remains significant concern in Northern Ireland about the reduction in the block grant should the rate of corporation tax be equalised with the south. What discussions has the Secretary of State had with the Chancellor and the Northern Ireland Finance Minister about the consequences for the block grant, and by how much would it reduce if corporation tax were equalised with the south?

[Mrs Villiers]

I have had extensive discussions on that matter on a number of occasions with the Northern Ireland Finance Minister and Treasury Ministers, including the Chancellor, and that issue is one reason why we must consider carefully before deciding whether to go ahead with the change. We must ensure that the numbers are correct and that we have thought through all the consequences before a decision is made on whether the devolution should take place.

Oral Answers to Questions

Ian Murray Excerpts

Tuesday 9th July 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

It is for each party to explain how it wants to see the process of devolution continue in the wake of next year’s referendum. Let us first settle the question of whether Scotland will remain a part of the family of nations that makes up the United Kingdom, and then decide as different parties. Speaking on behalf of my party, we will always be at the forefront of arguing for greater devolution within a United Kingdom.

[Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab)]

T5. The Deputy Prime Minister said, in launching his party’s 2010 green manifesto, that the Tories“talk the talk on green issues only to align themselves with climate deniers”.Will he explain to the hundreds and hundreds of constituents who contacted me why he and his party voted against the decarbonisation target in the Energy Bill?

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

As the hon. Gentleman would know if he followed the debate, we will be taking powers to introduce a decarbonisation target when the next carbon budget starts. There are different opinions on this. Some Members suggested recently that we should abolish the Department of Energy and Climate Change—indeed, that we should abolish my office, too—and any mention of climate change. Needless to say, I think they are wrong on all counts.

Oral Answers to Questions

Ian Murray Excerpts

Wednesday 15th May 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Mr Gray, I was thinking of calling you to ask a question, but if you continue to misbehave, I might not.

[Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab)]

Q8. Does the Deputy Prime Minister agree with me, the late Baroness Thatcher, senior Government members on the Business, Innovation and Skills Committee, the Liberal Democrat manifesto, the Minister in charge of the Royal Mail and his own Government, and does he still agree with himself, that the privatisation of the Royal Mail is a step too far?

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

We should welcome the innovative way in which we are seeking to give workers in Royal Mail a stake in the company. The hon. Gentleman’s party used to believed in worker ownership, but as on so many other issues it is still a blank sheet of paper when it comes to public policy of any significance. The Government are moving forward; the Opposition are standing still.

Oral Answers to Questions

Ian Murray Excerpts

Tuesday 8th January 2013 Commons Chamber

The Deputy Prime Minister was asked—

[Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab)]

1. When the Government plan to bring forward proposals on the recall of hon. Members.

[The Deputy Prime Minister (Mr Nick Clegg)]

Happy new year, Mr Speaker.

The Government published our proposals on the recall of MPs last year, and the Political and Constitutional Reform Committee then published its report in June last year. We submitted an interim response reaffirming our commitment to establishing a recall mechanism and are now taking the proper time to reflect on the Committee’s recommendations.

[Ian Murray]

Happy new year, Mr Speaker. I thank the Deputy Prime Minister for that unvarnished answer. Given that one of the justifications for introducing recall is improved confidence in our democracy, what is his view of the Political and Constitutional Reform Committee’s statement:

“We are not convinced that the proposals will increase public confidence in politics”?

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

The Committee made a number of recommendations about our proposals, but equally it accepted that all parties had made a manifesto commitment to introduce some kind of recall mechanism and acknowledged, as I think everyone does, the difficulty in trying to define serious wrongdoing precisely and determine who should define it and who should set off a trigger for a recall by-election. It is precisely those kinds of difficult dilemmas that we are now trying to address, because we do not want to resile from the commitment to legislate to introduce some kind of recall mechanism.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

As I sought to explain to my right hon. Friend the Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed (Sir Alan Beith) earlier, we are removing one specific, highly discriminatory provision from the law, on the faith of people whom heirs to the throne may marry. That discriminatory provision was introduced in the early years of the 18th century in response to the activities of Louis XIV of France, and I simply do not think it is necessary now in 21st century Britain.

[Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab)]

T10. The Deputy Prime Minister is starting to have the same trait as the Prime Minister of not answering questions. May I try again? Is it not the case that after the vote this evening, 3,900 people in my constituency who claim in-work benefits and do the right thing will be worse off while millionaires get a tax cut of £2,000 a week?

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

As I said before, the Labour rate for top taxpayers was 40p, so the hon. Gentleman needs to justify his support for 13 years for a lower rate applied to millionaires than will be introduced—[Interruption.] I know Opposition Members do not like it, and they are shrieking at the top of their voices, but the record shows that for the whole time of the Labour Government, apart from 30 days towards the end, the upper rate was 40p. We are introducing an upper rate of 45p. That is the first point.

The second point is that I hope the hon. Gentleman would celebrate with his constituents the fact that as of April this year, every single basic rate taxpayer in his constituency will be £600 better off because of the changes in the income tax allowance that we have introduced since the general election.

Oral Answers to Questions

Ian Murray Excerpts

Wednesday 7th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab)]

9. What progress he has made on making it easier for small and medium-sized enterprises to win public procurement contracts.

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Miss Chloe Smith)]

Since the general election we have introduced radical measures to make it easier for SMEs to win Government business. These will support growth and innovation. Gone are barriers like unnecessary pre-qualification questionnaires. New opportunities are published on our contracts finder website and SMEs can challenge obstruction through the mystery shopper service.

--- Later in debate ---

[Miss Smith]

The public procurement policy for central Government is to award contracts on the basis of value for money, which covers a combination of cost and quality, as my hon. Friend would expect. Our mystery shopper service provides an outlet for challenging poor selection requirements, such as those he might have experienced in his constituency. I say once again that value for money is something that the Government like.

[Ian Murray]

The Minister claims that direct spend with SMEs has increased since the general election, but will she confirm that the recorded increase at the Ministry of Justice, the Department she claims has had the highest increase, is in fact due to officials starting to include small law firms providing legal aid services? Should those not be stripped from the figures?

[Miss Smith]

I can confirm that the spend on procurement with SMEs has gone up. I say again that it was this Government who bothered to count that spend, unlike those now on the Opposition Benches, and I think that that is something we should be proud of.

Oral Answers to Questions

Ian Murray Excerpts

Tuesday 20th December 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

I receive the hon. Gentleman’s season’s greetings in the spirit in which they were intended. As he knows, appropriate arrangements would be made in that very unfortunate event. I must say, however, that his morbid fascination with the premature death of his own party leader is a subject not for me, but for the Chief Whip.

[Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab)]

T9. Senior high school pupils have just three and a half weeks remaining to submit their applications for university. Does the Deputy Prime Minister think that applications will rise or decrease, given his broken promise on introducing £9,000 tuition fees? What impact does he think that will have on social mobility?

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

What I, of course, hope is that as people focus on the reality and substance of the new system rather than the misleading polemic about it, they will come to appreciate that at the moment thousands of students on part-time courses, under the system introduced by the hon. Gentleman’s Government, pay fees as students whereas under the new system no student will pay a penny of fees at all while they are studying at university. The method of repayment, which is in effect a form of time-limited graduate tax, is more progressive, not less, than the more regressive system that it seeks to replace.