Rail 2020

Iain Stewart Excerpts

Wednesday 3rd July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to follow, for the second successive Wednesday, the hon. Member for Liverpool, Riverside (Mrs Ellman), Chairman of the Transport Committee. Last week our discussions were about high-speed rail; this week’s discussions will be at a slightly more sedate pace.

These are encouraging times for railways in the United Kingdom. As the hon. Lady mentioned, since privatisation passenger numbers have doubled and freight is showing a healthy increase of about 60%. That compares very favourably with our counterparts on the continent. I believe it is fair to say we have had the fastest growth in rail usage.

We are also seeing a substantial programme of investment in our rail network, with large projects such as the electrification of the great western line and the midland main line and the opening of new rail lines, including, I am pleased to say, the east-west line through my constituency to connect Bedford, Milton Keynes, Oxford and Aylesbury, and, it is to be hoped, in due course going further east towards Cambridge and the East Anglian network.

[Caroline Lucas]

The hon. Gentleman made some comparisons with the rest of Europe in terms of railway passenger numbers. Would he also make some comparisons about the levels of fares in this country and many other European countries?

[Iain Stewart]

I will happily do that. Indeed, I looked into this matter for a previous debate, as it is often claimed that our rail fares are the highest in Europe. Certainly if we compare immediate, walk-up, any time fares, we are comparatively more expensive, but if we look at the whole basket of fares, we compare very favourably. I urge the hon. Lady to look at an independent website compiled by regular rail users called “The Man in Seat Sixty-One”. It compares similar journeys on the continent and here, and for even very short-time advance fares we compare very favourably, so I do not accept that across the piece it is more expensive to travel by rail in this country than on the continent.

[Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)]

As my hon. Friend has been comparing fares between here and the continent, does he agree that we have greater scope to use different levels of fares to spread the use of our railways more evenly throughout the day, rather than having people crowding into certain rush hour periods? That would be a useful change that could be made, especially on certain lines.

[Iain Stewart]

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for that. I think I anticipate where her question is leading—it perhaps relates to high-speed rail—and I hope she will forgive me for not commenting on that. However, I agree that there is potential for expanding rail use outwith the peaks. Although the whole west coast main line franchise process had to be suspended, FirstGroup’s bid submission contained an ambitious but, I thought, deliverable wish to increase patronage of the railways outwith the peaks. That will help to generate more income and bring about a shift from other modes of transport to rail.

On investment, I was mentioning some of the larger projects that are going on, but much smaller-scale, incremental improvements are being made, particularly on the west coast main line. Passengers in my constituency are already benefiting from the lengthening of the Pendolino trains from nine to 11 carriages; and on London Midland’s commuter lines the speed of many trains has already been increased to 110 mph and it is in the process of procuring additional carriages to provide more capacity on those trains. so substantial investment is being made at the moment.

That investment compares very favourably to the situation not that long ago—two or three decades ago—when our railways were in a period of marked decline. The Serpell report in the 1980s was commissioned by the nationalised British Rail, and its most radical option would have truncated the national network. There would have been nothing north of Newcastle, nothing west of Exeter and the network would have been reduced to the core inter-city lines in a bid to cut out loss-making lines and deliver the railways to profitability.

[Damian Collins (Folkestone and Hythe) (Con)]

My hon. Friend will welcome, as I do, the transformation of rail services in Kent thanks to High Speed 1 and, in particular, the additional investment in extra trains and services resulting from the popularity of that new route.

[Iain Stewart]

I am happy to endorse the point that my hon. Friend eloquently makes. I have travelled on that line and seen at first hand many of the improvements that have been made.

The point has been made that the rail network requires subsidy to operate, and I agree with that. Many lines would not be profitable in themselves, but for social and environmental reasons they require subsidy. We need to take into account not just the operating profit and loss of an individual rail service, but the opportunity cost: the cost to the country if that rail line did not exist and people had to travel by car or another mode of transport. We can only imagine the congestion on the roads around our major cities if we did not have commuter rail lines. They might not, in themselves, be profitable, but the environmental and financial cost of having those passengers travelling by car or another mode of transport would just be too much to bear.

I welcome the Government’s commitment to continue to subsidise large parts of our rail network, but we cannot escape the conclusion that Sir Roy McNulty and others reached in their report, which was that we should be looking to make our network as efficient as possible, in order to achieve his aim of a 30% reduction in the unit cost. Our network is comparatively expensive to run compared with others. I believe that that is a product of history, not just of one approach, be it the franchise model or the nationalised model. It is a cost that has been built into the system over many decades, particularly because until relatively recently we have had a period of managed decline of our network and what investment there has been has been made on a “make do and mend” basis. Additional costs are hard-wired into our system, but the system we now have is sensibly evolving.

[Graham Stringer]

The hon. Gentleman is a serious student of the rail system in this country. There is not a lot in what he has said with which I disagree. He is trying to put the issue into its historical perspective, so let me put it into real historical perspective. When John Major’s Conservative Government privatised the railways in the 1990s, they came to this Chamber and told right hon. and hon. Members that there would be no subsidy. That was used as justification for selling the railways off at a lower price. Network Rail now carries a debt of £30 billion on its balance sheet, so I hope the hon. Gentleman will take into consideration the false prospectus that the Conservatives gave this House in the 1990s.

[Iain Stewart]

It is always a pleasure to take an intervention from my fellow Select Committee member. If the hon. Gentleman will forgive me, I will not rehash the debates of the 1990s as I am more interested in what happens from here on. In an earlier intervention, he made the point that the Government are seeking to return the east coast main line to private hands as a matter of ideology. Equally, I could argue that it is because of ideology that the Opposition want to renationalise it. I draw the hon. Gentleman’s attention to the conclusion of Richard Brown’s report on franchising, which concluded that the franchising model was not fundamentally flawed and that although the detail could sensibly be changed, the investment in and success of the railways could not have happened if the franchising was fundamentally flawed.

Let me turn to a number of initiatives that, I believe, can deliver a more efficient railway. The hon. Member for Liverpool, Riverside mentioned the development of alliances between Network Rail and train operating companies. That is a very helpful and sensible development. The one large-scale alliance, between Network Rail and South West Trains, has not been in operation long enough for us to make any sensible assessment of what savings it can deliver, but as the real expert, Nigel Harris, said in evidence to the Select Committee, it

“is the only game in town”

at the moment and requires a fair wind to achieve the savings that it hopes to.

Such alliances are not the only form of alliance available. One or two other examples provide evidence that such an arrangement can deliver useful savings and efficiencies in the railway. The project in Scotland to electrify the branch line to Paisley Canal on the Greater Glasgow network was an alliance between Network Rail, First ScotRail and Babcock engineering. They were able to electrify the branch line at a substantially lower than expected cost and two years ahead of the planned development because the power was devolved down to that level, meaning that the various experts and operators could get together and deliver the project very efficiently.

I am doing a fellowship with the Industry and Parliament Trust on the rail industry and I have spent a good number of days going around parts of the railway system. I have seen two separate examples of an alliance between a train operating company and the rolling stock manufacturer, which enables a much more efficient system of maintenance and refurbishment of the rolling stock. I visited the Kings Heath depot, jointly operated by London Midland and Siemens on the London Midland franchise, and—this will interest my hon. Friend the Member for Folkestone and Hythe (Damian Collins)—the Hitachi depot where the Javelin trains are maintained with Southeastern. Those depots are delivering a much faster and more efficient turnaround in train maintenance. They are not “grands projets” or exciting stuff, but they deliver a much better service for rail users at a much lower cost.

[Damian Collins]

My hon. Friend mentions the Southeastern trains. He might have noticed that the Javelin trains perform much better in poor weather, as they can cut through the snow and, effectively, open up the lines for the more traditional services.

[Iain Stewart]

That is another excellent point from my hon. Friend. As we continue to procure new rolling stock, there is greater scope for the more efficient method of alliancing between operators and manufacturers.

[Mr Marcus Jones (Nuneaton) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that alliances between Network Rail and local authorities are also extremely important in delivering local rail infrastructure projects, such as the Coventry to Nuneaton rail upgrade? We are working with Network Rail and local authorities, with funding from the Government, to deliver that important project.

[Iain Stewart]

I am happy to endorse that point. There is no one-size-fits-all model of alliance; different parts of the country will have different network requirements, and it is sensible to allow different arrangements to be established where they make sense.

Before leaving alliances, I want to sound two cautionary notes about bigger alliances, such as the one between Network Rail and South West Trains. First, they should not exclude open access operators, which I think offer a healthy alternative and competitive service on some lines. There is concern that too tight a deal between Network Rail and the dominant train operating company might—I put it no higher than that—exclude open access operators. I ask the Minister to keep an eye on that. Related to that, one of the witnesses to the inquiry that the Transport Committee is conducting into access to ports flagged up a concern that rail freight operators might be disadvantaged in securing paths on busy rail lines if too deep an alliance exists. Again, that is only one concern that has been expressed, but it is something to keep an eye on.

I agree that the Government’s review of ticketing offers considerable scope for encouraging more passengers on to the railway system and delivering that aspect of the network more efficiently and cheaply. There are all sorts of options, including smart ticketing and moving staff from behind windows on to station concourses to assist passengers; and more and more people will use their mobile phone to buy tickets and make reservations. The Select Committee heard evidence from some train operating companies that they will be able to deliver a more customer-friendly system of making reservations, rather than customers having to reserve some time in advance. There are considerable opportunities to boost numbers on our railways.

Another opportunity is offered by developing retail services at stations, from large destination stations such as St Pancras, where there is a considerable number of retail outlets, down to much smaller stations. As part of my IPT fellowship, I looked at Denmark Hill station.

[Kelvin Hopkins]

Perhaps the rents from premises on stations will go to the railway industry, but profits will go to the retailers, so retail development at stations would not make much difference, I would have thought.

[Iain Stewart]

I must disagree. Airports derive a considerable part of their income from the retail space at airports, and I see no reason why railway stations could not do the same. I am not saying that it would transform the economic model of railways, but it would be a useful additional source of income.

As I was saying, retail development is happening at smaller stations. Denmark Hill station is a lovely Victorian building, which is being remodelled so that, instead of a fairly horrible little ticket office and coffee machine, there will be a swish café, making it a much more attractive environment that will encourage people to use the railway. There is a lot of scope in such developments. I would even suggest that, where the Government are trying to reduce Government real estate costs, they might consider moving services such as post office counters into railway stations. It would be a bit of joined-up government to have public services all available in one spot. That is just one little suggestion, but at the heart of all this is the ability of the private sector to innovate, provide different services and deliver what the customer wants.

[Kelvin Hopkins]

It occurs to me that if all the retail outlets and hotels were, perhaps not renationalised, but taken back into, say, Network Rail, all the income and profits would go to the railway sector, rather than retail.

[Iain Stewart]

The hon. Gentleman seems to have a rose-tinted view of British Rail. I gently remind him of the nationalised British Rail catering options, from the curling cheese sandwiches to the tea and coffee that were indistinguishable. I would support private innovation in that field.

[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

I am sorry that the hon. Gentleman has such strange views of the old British Rail, which I accept was starved of investment under successive Governments, but certainly the breakfast on the east coast main line was excellent.

[Iain Stewart]

I am too young to have been able to enjoy the east coast main line in those years, so I cannot comment, but from what I remember of the old British Rail Scottish region, the catering offer was not—

[Sheila Gilmore (Edinburgh East) (Lab)]

rose—

[Iain Stewart]

Edinburgh is about to intervene.

[Sheila Gilmore]

Has the hon. Gentleman sampled the catering offer and customer comfort on ScotRail, because I rather suspect it is not much better?

[Iain Stewart]

I have been on a number of trains in Scotland and had a thoroughly enjoyable experience. I do not know which services the hon. Lady has been on, but the last time I took a ScotRail train it was rather good.

If the Minister will forgive me, I want to touch on two local issues. First, I mentioned earlier the welcome investment that Virgin and London Midland are making in their rolling stock, which when all is delivered will achieve a considerable increase in capacity for my constituents. Until we get that, we have a problem with overcrowding, particularly during the evening peak. I have written to him about that before and so am just giving a gentle nudge to see whether we can reach a temporary arrangement between London Midland and Virgin to allow some London Midland passengers to use Virgin trains in the evening peak in order to spread demand.

Secondly—I made this point this last week—when we look at the second phase of high-speed rail and where the east-west line will intersect the proposed high-speed line in Buckinghamshire, perhaps it would be sensible to look at an intermediate station to allow people in Milton Keynes and the rest of Buckinghamshire to access the line.

In conclusion, the railways are in a good place. The problems and challenges we face are the product of success and increased patronage. The investment that is being made is welcome. I heartily endorse the different investments the Government are making and look forward to our achieving another golden age for the railway network.

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[Kelvin Hopkins]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We have seen people travelling longer distances to work and growth in the economy, particularly in London and the south-east, leading to much more commuting from longer distances to take advantage of lower house prices further from London, and so on. The amount of travelling that people need to do has increased enormously. The only way they can do it is by rail. I speak as someone who is sometimes asked by people, “How long does it take you to drive to London?”, to which I say, “I don’t know and I’ve never done it”—why would I, from Luton to London every day? That is my view of rail. I have been a passionate supporter of railways for a long time.

However, since privatisation we have seen a surge in costs, not just on the operating side, but on maintenance and track renewal. Time and again when Labour was in office, I raised with Transport Secretaries the fact that the costs of maintenance and track renewal had gone up by four or even five times since privatisation. The reason was largely to do with the move towards more contracting and away from direct works. That contracting involved lots of lawyers and layer upon layer of project management, all of which meant bureaucratic cost, which is still the situation now. Indeed, after some time maintenance was brought back in-house. The problem was that the bad habits established while it was contracted out continued and the same people who operated in the contracted-out version carried on doing the work in-house, so there was not much difference. We have to look back to how things operated in the days of BR, when they were done much more efficiently.

Direct employment of engineers is crucial in that. Rather than having project managers running schemes, with layer after layer of project management, and engineers employed as consultants, we should have engineers directly employed by Network Rail and running schemes from the top, not being brought in as expensive consultants.

[Iain Stewart]

May I draw the hon. Gentleman’s attention to the example I gave of the electrification of the Paisley Canal line? It involved the train operating company, Network Rail and Babcock engineering, a private contractor that delivered the project considerably under budget and two years ahead of schedule.

[Kelvin Hopkins]

There are undoubtedly examples of good practice, but there are many, many examples of bad practice, involving cost overruns and things being done expensively.

Having an engineer at the highest level in projects is crucial. Project managers cannot make judgments about technology in the way that an engineer can. We need track engineers, signal engineers and people with all those kinds of skills, which are gradually disappearing because we are not training enough in-house. In future, I hope there will be a move back towards direct employment of engineers. So that is where we are.

There is also a need to invest in infrastructure. We are talking about “Rail 2020”, not longer-term investments in things such as HS2, which we debated only last week. That is all years away—it might even be parked in a siding, which I would not object to either, although that is another view. Obviously I welcome the electrification plans. They are tremendous, but other things could be done—and need to be done quickly and could be done inexpensively—to make major improvements. As I said last week, upgrading the east coast main line, for example, could make a tremendous difference, even simply by doubling the viaduct at Welwyn. At the moment, there are just two tracks over the Mimram. If there was another viaduct, there would be four tracks and the bottleneck would be overcome. That would cost something, but nothing like the billions we are talking about with HS2. If we had east-west flyovers at Peterborough and Newark, it would free up the track for fast operation.

As I mentioned last week, a 1990 test run was undertaken by BR to see how a fast train could operate from King’s Cross to Edinburgh. Remarkably, the line was cleared for the test run and the train ran to Newcastle in two and a half hours, with a two-minute stop there, and then onward to Edinburgh in three and a half hours. That showed what could be done if the track were upgraded on a regular basis. Three and a half hours to Edinburgh is eight minutes faster than the time HS2 is now advertising. It is not heavily trafficked, and if we took the freight off the east coast main line, we could—with longer trains, more modern signalling and a bit more of an upgrade—get much more capacity on that line very cheaply. I should mention, of course, that King’s Cross could also serve Leeds in that way in an hour and a half. With a 140 mph operation—the sort of speed that is possible not throughout the line, but for much of it—this King’s Cross to Leeds service could bring more capacity.

The problem with the west coast main line is essentially the London to Birmingham route. As I said last week, there is an easy way of overcoming the problem by upgrading the Paddington to Birmingham Snow Hill route through Banbury. A 125 mph operation on that line would be relatively easy, with longer trains, a bit of upgrading and more modern signalling. That could effectively double the capacity for getting to Birmingham, and it would not be difficult or expensive. Paddington will be on the Crossrail route. From the City, then, someone could travel Crossrail to Paddington and straight through to Birmingham Snow Hill in the centre of Birmingham, overcoming a major problem. The station proposed for HS2 is rather further away from the centre than Snow Hill is, so some of the advantage of that is lost. Going further north, there is a stretch of 10 miles or so with three-track working north of Rugby. If it were made four-track, it would overcome a bottleneck and increase capacity going through to the north-west. As I said, things could be done that are not expensive and they could be brought in quickly, so that by 2020 all these things could easily be in operation.

Most important of all, we have to look at investment for freight. I have personally been heavily involved in a freight scheme idea—it is not a pecuniary interest, but a political interest—and I believe we need new freight infrastructure. If we could get all the freight off the existing main lines on to dedicated freight infrastructure, we could solve enormous problems. Freight and passengers do not mix well, as they have different operating speeds. Passenger trains tend to go faster and are more reliable, whereas freight goes on long, slow and heavy trains, which do not fit well with passengers.

There is a scheme to overcome that problem—at least on the north-south line linking the main conurbations. I have proposed the GB Railfreight route, and last week I put in a submission on behalf of colleagues to Network Rail for its consultation on freight. The GB Railfreight route would be a dedicated line going all the way from the channel tunnel to Glasgow, linking all the main conurbations in Britain.

The important thing about freight, of course, is that 80% of it goes by lorry and trailer, not by container, so we would need to have a freight route capable of taking lorries on trains. Without that, we will not see the big modal shift from road to rail that we need. This scheme proposes precisely that, taking the largest lorries on trains. This is happening all over the continent of Europe with dedicated routes. New tunnels are being built through the Alps that are capable of taking through the largest sized freight. If we could run trains directly from Rome to Birmingham or from Berlin to Glasgow without interruption by passenger trains on a dedicated freight route capable of taking lorries on trains, I think we would see a transformation of the links between our regions and the continent of Europe, which would also breathe new life into the regional economies that so many Members represent. That scheme is a realistic proposition. It could be built quickly and cheaply, and all it needs is a nod from the Government. I have met previous Secretaries of State and officials from the Department for Transport and put the case to them, and it is a realistic prospect that I hope will be taken seriously. It has the backing of supermarkets, hauliers and so on.

One important point I wish to make to the Minister is that such a scheme would use existing track route, under-utilised lines and old track bed. Only 14 miles would be new line, and nine of those would be in a tunnel. Two routes would have to be electrified to a sufficient gauge to take lorries on trains: Gospel Oak to Barking, and Wigston to Chesterfield in the midlands. If on those routes the gauge was raised to a sufficient level and able to take full-scale lorries on trains, the scheme would work. Those lines will be electrified—rightly so; we welcome that—but if they could be raised to a sufficient gauge to accommodate that sort of freight, it would be a tremendous advantage. If that is not done and the freight scheme goes ahead later, we will have to do the work all over again, which would be an expensive irrationality.

That is what I suggest. The scheme would take up to 5 million lorry loads off our roads every year. It would take all the north-south traffic off the west coast main line, the east coast main line and the midlands main line, and breathe new life into the economies of Scotland, the north-east, the north-west and south Yorkshire. There could eventually be a link to south Wales and Birmingham, and of course to London and the south-east, and it would link directly to the continent of Europe.

Trains currently take lorries from the continent through the channel tunnel, but they can get only as far as the terminal at Barking where they are lifted off. They cannot get past Barking because the gauge is not sufficient to accommodate them. In a sense, the first phase of the scheme is already operating, but we want Governments and Network Rail to grasp hold of the idea and build the freight line that we think will transform Britain’s transport infrastructure. I hope that what I have said is helpful to Ministers and of interest to fellow hon. Members.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Jones]

Exactly—and if we are talking about the scarcity of capital, we should consider the upgrading of links to Hexham. In my constituency, some existing lines could be opened up. The Leamside line, for instance, could take freight off the main routes.

Let me now say something about East Coast. My hon. Friend the Member for Blackley and Broughton (Graham Stringer), who is not in the Chamber at present, wondered why the Government were in such a rush to return to privatisation. As he said, the line is contributing to the Exchequer, and is performing well in terms of punctuality and the quality of the service that it provides. Investment in rolling stock is clearly needed. However, the staff have worked hard to ensure the success of the line since renationalisation. They should be given credit for that, and for the tremendous loyalty that they have generated among the travelling public.

[Iain Stewart]

May I draw the hon. Gentleman’s attention to one of the recommendations of Richard Brown’s review of the franchising system after the west coast main line issue? He said that

“it is very important that the franchising programme is restarted as soon as possible.”

I would suggest that that is a reason for bringing forward the franchising process for the east coast main line.

[Mr Jones]

That may well be the case, but is it going to be good for the taxpayer? We currently have a very successful operator contributing to the taxpayer, so why automatically go down this route, unless there is an ideological reason of wanting to ensure that the operator moves from the public sector back into the private sector, which is clearly the position of the hon. Member for Ipswich (Ben Gummer)?

[Iain Stewart]

One of the other conclusions of the Brown review was that the pause in the franchising programme was having knock-on effects in the railway procurement industry, and that delay could interrupt the important investment in long-term projects. That is one of the reasons Brown concluded that the franchising timetable should be restarted as soon as possible.

[Mr Jones]

I am going to come on to the issue of franchising in a moment, but the hon. Gentleman’s point is based on the assumption that the Government would not invest in the rolling stock now for a nationalised company. The idea that the new rolling stock will be provided only by a private provider is not a good enough reason for saying that we should not at least examine the reasons for keeping the company in public ownership.

This is not just about the rail network itself; it raises issues around rolling stock and guaranteeing jobs in this country in providing new rolling stock, including through new investment in the north-east by Hitachi, which is very welcome and is locating a new factory at Newton Aycliffe.

How local people can influence the franchising process is a key issue. My hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Riverside (Mrs Ellman) raised the important point of the transparency of the process, and there is a constituency issue that I have been campaigning on for a number of years now: the stretch of the east coast main line that goes through my North Durham constituency from Chester-le-Street into Newcastle. Chester-le-Street has now increasingly become a commuter town for Tyneside and Teesside. It takes less than 15 minutes to travel from Chester-le-Street into Newcastle, and if it was in south-east England it would therefore be seen as an obvious place to commute to work from. In the mornings and early evenings there is an hourly, and sometimes a half-hourly, service, but throughout the rest of the day the timetable is intermittent, and later in the evening when people want to travel into Newcastle for entertainment there is a limited service.

I pay tribute to the campaign of the stationmaster at Chester-le-Street, Alex Nelson. He has been arguing for an hourly stopping service from Chester-le-Street to Newcastle. We have met Northern Rail to make the case for that, and the point it keeps making to us is that the franchising model puts an emphasis on inter-city routes, rather than stopping services. It is clear from the public meetings I have had about this issue over the past few years that there is huge interest in Chester-le-Street to ensure it gets an hourly service into Newcastle not only at peak times, but throughout the day and at weekends. That would serve to reduce the number of cars travelling to Newcastle and alleviate congestion. We need to think about how local people can have a voice in determining issues such as the train service from Chester-le-Street, which is not only important for local people, but which benefits the economy of Tyneside. A study has recently been undertaken on widening the western bypass, as we need to get the cars off that. One of the easiest ways of doing so is to invest in the likes of an hourly stopping service from Chester-le-Street.

Finally, I wish to discuss the wider transport picture in the north-east. I congratulate the seven local authorities in the north-east which are coming together in a strategic partnership to examine economic development. Not only that, but one of their key objectives is to look at a joined-up transport policy. This debate is about rail, but we cannot look at that in isolation; we need to consider how it joins up to other public transport networks, be it the buses or the Metro system in Tyneside. It also needs to be as easy as possible for people to transfer from one mode of transport to another. One thing I would like the authorities to back is some kind of Oyster card, whereby people could travel using different modes of transport in the north-eastern region. That would make travel a lot easier, and the new authority may well be able to push forward with such things. The investment we need in our rail network is not only vital for the purpose of people travelling; it is vital to the future economic benefit of this country and certainly of regions such as the north-east.

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[Mr Burns]

I have considerable sympathy with what the hon. Gentleman says. It is important that we consider opening new railway lines or reopening lines that have been removed but whose beds remain in place where there is demand and need for them and if the business case backs it up. Tunnels are an important and topical issue that has come across my desk and we are looking at it very carefully.

[Iain Stewart]

May I underline the importance of keeping old route lines open or free for potential reopening? Work on the western section of the east-west rail project has been very easy because the line is still there, but there are difficulties on the Bedford to Cambridge and East Anglia section because part of that track has been built on.

[Mr Burns]

My hon. Friend makes an extremely valid point. We have to learn from some of the mistakes of the past and what happened to the railways post-Beeching. I accept what my hon. Friend says.

We are well on the way to delivering a new high-speed railway for Britain, bringing extra capacity, faster journeys and better services and changing our economic geography. I am sorry that the hon. Member for North Durham is not as enthusiastic about this exciting way of improving connectivity, journey times and increasing capacity. [Interruption.] The hon. Gentleman is chuntering, but I am surprised—

Oral Answers to Questions

Iain Stewart Excerpts

Thursday 27th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr McLoughlin]

I am always keen to look at schemes that help cyclists, including by increasing their safety. A number of schemes are currently before the Department, and I hear what my hon. Friend says in support of that bid, but I have to say there are bids from a number of colleagues for these schemes.

[Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) (Con)]

I thank my right hon. Friend for the approval given for the improvements under the fund to the A421 in my constituency. May I ask what his hopes are for the future scope of that fund, so we may, perhaps, bid for further schemes on the A421, including at the western edge of my seat leading into your constituency, Mr Speaker?

[Mr McLoughlin]

Well, Mr Speaker, I do not think I want to prejudge any future schemes that may or may not be developed. What I would like to point out is that we announced the local pinch point fund last year, and it has been incredibly successful. We had more bids than we had money available for it. Although I am mindful of that, I will see what else can be done. However, as a result of the Chancellor’s announcements yesterday and the statement shortly to be made by the Chief Secretary, there will be huge investment in our roads, which is much needed.

High Speed Rail (Preparation) Bill

Iain Stewart Excerpts

Wednesday 26th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) (Con)]

It is always a great pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Liverpool, Riverside (Mrs Ellman), the Chairman of the Transport Committee. I have had the privilege of serving on the Committee for more than three years now. I have studied this subject not only through my Committee work, but through other personal research and I do not think I have studied any subject in more depth. I will try to put concisely my observations on the project in the next few minutes.

I support the principle of high-speed rail. I confess that I do not believe this route is the optimal one, and I have specific concerns and suggestions to make about it, but I support the Bill. I fear the opportunity cost of not proceeding with this project far outweighs the risk and costs of going ahead. I shall say a little about why I have reached that conclusion.

The point has been well made that many parts of our rail network are close to capacity. Rail passenger use and rail freight use have increased sharply in recent years and any reasonable projection shows that they will continue to rise in future decades. Simply taking into account the increased population of the country, particularly in areas such as mine, it is clear that there will be continued increased demand on transport services and rail in particular. Rail usage increased even in the recession from 2008 onwards.

It is often said that we should invest in the classic network rather than HS2. I would not support HS2 if it was at the expense of investment in the classic network, but there is substantial investment in that network. There is the electrification of the Great Western and midland main lines, as well as new rolling stock and junction improvements on the west coast main line. The Government have sensibly committed to reopening the east-west rail line from Milton Keynes to Oxford and Aylesbury. Those are just a few of the projects.

Essential and welcome as the upgrades are, they will not be enough for the long term. I have come to the conclusion from all my research, and from looking at all the projects and models that have been proposed, that we need to build a new north-south strategic rail line.

[Andrea Leadsom]

Does my hon. Friend think, like my hon. Friend the Member for Northampton South (Mr Binley), that this is a matter of needing more capacity? If so, why are we going for a very expensive system like high-speed rail, with its exponentially enormous engineering costs?

[Iain Stewart]

My research has shown that if we are committing to build a new railway line, the cost of building a fast one is not significantly more than building a conventional one. The majority of the costs come in building the cuttings, the bridges and all the other necessary infrastructure. Making a faster one costs a little more, but not a huge amount more.

If we merely expanded capacity on the west coast or east coast lines, we would have to do that at the same time as running existing services. Anyone who used the west coast main line during the previous upgrade will say what an absolute nightmare that is. Such an approach would not solve the problem of competing demands for use on the existing line between commuter services, freight services, non-stop inter-city services and stopping services. We cannot continually squeeze more and more capacity out of one line, as we will reach capacity and will be overly reliant on that line. That is why I accept the case for a new high-speed line.

I accept that the project is controversial and completely understand the fears of residents along the proposed line of route. There are justifiable concerns about disturbing the peace and quiet of the countryside, but I urge right hon. and hon. Members to look at what happened during the construction and planning of High Speed 1. The same concerns were raised, but since the line has opened there have been very few, if any, complaints.

[Sir Paul Beresford (Mole Valley) (Con)]

I can certainly back up my hon. Friend’s point. I was on the Committee that considered the Bill and the line was going through the garden of England, and there was talk of devastation and horrendous things. Some of the complaints were justified, but many proved to be empty. It has worked.

[Iain Stewart]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that intervention. I took the opportunity to visit the route of High Speed 1 and saw the noise mitigation measures that had been put in place. The noise of the trains is not much more audible than that of an A road or other minor piece of infrastructure.

[Alec Shelbrooke]

I was on that trip with my hon. Friend and a notable fact given to us by Kent county council was that Maidstone is now lobbying to have the line go through the station, whereas it was vehemently opposed to that originally.

[Iain Stewart]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right.

To those who voice concern about visual intrusion on areas of outstanding natural beauty, I simply make the point that railway infrastructure need not be ugly—it need not be concrete blocks. Look at some of the fantastic pieces of railway engineering and architecture we have: the Forth bridge, the Glenfinnan viaduct, Brunel’s bridges and tunnels—they have enhanced the landscape. I urge my right hon. Friend the Minister of State to make HS2 into an opportunity to showcase the best of British design and engineering, with bridges, viaducts and other infrastructure that show off and augment our landscape.

In the couple of minutes remaining, I will highlight five specific concerns and make some suggestions. The first is about the rolling stock for the line and making sure it is compatible with the classic network, particularly on the Anglo-Scottish services. At present, we have tilting trains that allow conventional lines to be used at high speed, but if high-speed trains cannot tilt, journey times on the classic network will be lengthened to an extent that might offset the time gains on the high-speed line. I urge the Minister to consider that.

The second concern, justifiably felt by people in Buckinghamshire, is that the line goes straight through the county with no stop. The high-speed line will intersect with the new east-west line in Buckinghamshire. I ask that, when the scheme is considered in full—the Y-network and connection to the channel tunnel—the case will be reassessed for an intermediate stop at Claydon junction. I would suggest calling it “Milton Keynes Parkway”, but others may have different ideas. That would enable people in the area to access the lines, which I believe would augment the business case.

Only seconds remain, so I will very quickly highlight the point, which has already been well made, about properly connecting airports, High Speed 1 and the channel tunnel. I do not think the plans are optimal. Finally, I urge my right hon. Friend to look at capacity at Euston, where the tube network is already pretty crowded. I believe we need to consider Crossrail 2, so I was delighted when the Chancellor floated that possibility in his statement earlier today. Notwithstanding those concerns, I support the Bill.

East Coast Main Line

Iain Stewart Excerpts

Wednesday 5th June 2013 Westminster Hall

[Ian Swales (Redcar) (LD)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Middlesbrough (Andy McDonald) on securing this debate and on his excellent speech, which fully covered many of the issues. I have been a regular traveller on the east coast main line for more than 25 years for business purposes. It seems hard to believe that it is the most successful and profitable line in the country, because the bungled franchises under both Governments and under-investment have left us with old trains, poor punctuality and high fares.

Arriving at Darlington station to come to Parliament, I have a choice: buy a standard return ticket, or get back in my car, drive to London and do the return trip that way. At 45p a mile, I save the taxpayer £60 if I drive. Is there anywhere else in the world where a mass transit system is so much more expensive than each passenger recovering in full the cost of driving a car?

In the year to March 2012, East Coast made a profit before tax and payments to the Department for Transport of £196 million on a £666 million turnover; that is more than 29%. It is high time that some of that money was used both to reduce the fares and to upgrade the rolling stock. Until then, users of the line are bound to feel that they are being ripped off and, in effect, used to subsidise the rest of the network.

[Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) (Con)]

My hon. Friend makes an important point about the quality of the rolling stock, but is he not aware that the inter-city express programme, which will be built in the north-east, will introduce new trains on the east coast main line?

[Ian Swales]

Indeed, and I hope they will be built in the north-east at the new Hitachi factory. Let us hope the public procurement produces the right answer.

I note the Opposition’s position. They had the chance to make the franchise public in 2007; they did not, and they went into the last election promising a refranchising in 2011. The Public Accounts Committee, of which I am a member, reviewed the east coast fiasco in mid-2011. It mainly considered the National Express failure, which was a familiar story of unrealistic bidding, poor due diligence, poor contracting and wasted taxpayers’ money. Since then, the Department’s franchising team has caused the west coast train disaster with another huge loss of taxpayers’ money. Will the Minister give us confidence that a proper job will be done this time?

Although I understand the commercial sensitivity, I feel that the whole bidding review process should be as transparent as possible. Independent experts should be involved from the start to provide scrutiny to avoid unrealistic assumptions producing the wrong answer. Taxpayers should not have to wait for the National Audit Office to pick over the entrails again. Furthermore, if the offers are not good value for travellers and the taxpayer, continuing public ownership must be a realistic alternative. As the hon. Member for Middlesbrough said, we should not start with the answer and allow political dogma to decide.

I hope that the bid review process will also be stress-tested. For example, there should be no assumptions about tax recovery from companies, which then avoid tax, as we constantly see in the world of the private finance initiative.

With its inherent profitability, and given that the 250-mile journey from Darlington to London takes as little as two and a quarter hours, the east coast line should be the jewel in the crown of the UK rail network. However, with two bungled franchise deals behind us, the Minister has a lot to do to convince us and the public that this will be third time lucky.

Railways

Iain Stewart Excerpts

Thursday 25th April 2013 Commons Chamber

[Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) (Con)]

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I am grateful for the opportunity to contribute to this debate.

I will first pick up on the fascinating comments made by the hon. Member for Nottingham South (Lilian Greenwood). I wonder whether we are witnessing the embryonic development of a Labour policy of whole-scale renationalisation of train operators. I have only five minutes, so I cannot pursue that much further. I imagine that the proposal finds a lot of favour with the hon. Lady’s Back-Bench colleagues and, indeed, trade union sponsors, but that is a matter for another day.

[Frank Dobson (Holborn and St Pancras) (Lab)]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the Government’s position is ideologically bizarre, in that they seem to oppose public ownership of the railways by British people or the British Government, but have no objection at all to public ownership of British railways by foreign Governments?

[Iain Stewart]

If the right hon. Gentleman will bear with me, I will come on to some of the proposals in the EU package that I think will help British operators to expand into Europe, if they so wish.

I broadly welcome the package of measures. It takes Europe in a direction that we have already taken, so its broad thrust will not have a dramatic effect on rail operators in this country.

I want to pick up on a few specific concerns. There is an issue about how the rest of Europe will respond and I am concerned about how effective the European Union will be in implementing the package in other countries. The Transport Committee’s evidence sessions made it clear that it will be very difficult to apply the package to all EU member states, because of the different sizes and structures of their respective railway systems. Past experience shows that the proposals are so opaque in practice that national Governments can implement them as they wish so as to protect their own national operators. I asked Brian Simpson, the Labour MEP who chairs the European Parliament’s Transport and Tourism Committee, whether there was lobbying from France and Germany to protect their national interests. He replied: “You bet there was.” I am, therefore, concerned about how the proposals will be implemented in Europe.

The Committee has recommended—I think this would help—that the maximum limit for the bundling together of rail network services should be one fifth instead of one third. On the evolution of services in Germany, while urban and regional services are diversifying, allowing different operators to enter the market, the entire inter-city network, with only two exceptions, is operated by Deutsche Bahn. Therefore, a contract covering one third of the national network would allow Deutsche Bahn a near monopoly of the inter-city services, which goes against the principle of the directive. I hope that in his discussions with colleagues in Europe, the Minister will pursue an upper limit of one fifth of the market, rather than one third.

The Minister has already referred to one of my domestic concerns, namely that the package should not prohibit the alliance between Network Rail and some of the train operating companies, particularly South West Trains. I believe that that is an effective way forward for the railways and I hope that the Minister will be able to get some clarification on it and protection for those British interests.

I am also concerned about international services. For obvious reasons, the impact on British railways has not been significant thus far, but High Speed 2 and its connection to High Speed 1 and the tunnel will lead to many more international services from this country. I do not want our interests to be inhibited by problems relating to track access or safety, which is what happened when Eurostar tried to buy Siemens trains for the tunnel. The existing regulations are not as effective as they could be. I hope we can get much greater clarity and certainty on both those areas, in order to allow the development of effective cross-border services from this country. The Minister has said that he is looking at whether the issue can be dealt with through a European-wide arrangement or through greater collaboration between national agencies. I do not have a particular preference, but the overall objective should be to give operators greater certainty so that they can plan services.

I am running out of time, so I will conclude by saying that I broadly support the thrust of the package, but hope that the Government will be successful in getting the assurances and clarifications needed to protect our interests.

Plug-in Vehicles

Iain Stewart Excerpts

Thursday 25th April 2013 Westminster Hall

[Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship again, Mr Robertson.

It is also a pleasure to follow my hon. Friend and constituency neighbour, the Member for South West Bedfordshire (Andrew Selous), who gave a very good introduction to the need for the decarbonisation of transport for environmental, energy, security and economic reasons. I will not try to better his explanation, but I have some concerns about how we can best deliver that in the context of electric vehicles. There is certainly a role for an electric vehicle market, but I am not sure that it will evolve in the way that the Government or other parties—there is some consensus across parties—hope, and I trust that hon. Members will bear with me while I set out my rationale for that view.

The first obstacle to the significant extension of electric car ownership is the high cost, as has been mentioned. Even with the generous discount available, the capital sum involved is still large. Currently, a like-for-like comparison between an electric car and a petrol or diesel one is a no-brainer, unless people happen to be wealthy enough to afford the premium. The usual trend is that a new technological product is initially extremely expensive and then, as the technology improves and more people take it up, the price drops. When plasma screen televisions were first introduced, the cost ran into thousands of pounds, but the price has now come right down and they are available for most people to buy.

I am not as certain as my hon. Friend that we will easily reach a tipping point at which the cost of electric vehicles will come down and make them a rational purchase choice for many consumers. My concerns about why we will not get there are largely technical, but are also from the point of view of convenience. At the moment, the range of an electric car is about 100 miles maximum, but that can be significantly reduced by use of the air conditioning, the radio and all the other gadgets that we increasingly take for granted in cars. Apart from in a very domestic market, that is a big inhibitor: people will not have the confidence to buy such a car for regular journeys to other parts of the country for business or holidays. Even half an hour, for an 80% recharge, is a significant addition of time to a business journey. That is one reason why there will be a difficulty—I am not saying that it is impossible—in getting consumer certainty and confidence.

[Andrew Selous]

I accept what my hon. Friend is saying. He is making some fair points, but does he accept that there might well be significant improvements in battery technology—for example, with the use of graphene—that would transform those issues?

[Iain Stewart]

My hon. Friend makes a good point. I hope that we reach that point, but I am not yet convinced that the technology is there to deliver that step change. It may come. I am in no way an expert on these matters, but from all my discussions with manufacturers—the Nissan Leaf was developed at Cranfield, which is close to both our constituencies—I did not get a sense that there would be a radical shift in range immediately. It may come, and I hope it does.

My other concern relates to the domestic consumer and their confidence in running an electric car. Not everyone can plan their daily journeys with great confidence. We might have our regular commute from home to work and back again, and that is within the range of the car, but then we have to pick up kids from sports activities or do an extra shop. We can suddenly add to our daily journey in all sorts of ways. Until we get to the point where the recharging of an electric car is as convenient as going into a petrol station to fill up, in terms of time and availability, we will not get that step change in consumer demand.

We have lots of charging points in Milton Keynes, but drivers can never be certain that those spaces will be free. They could be left stranded if they are not near a plug-in point to be able to recharge their car. If consumer confidence does not improve, I fear that we will not get the sort of demand that will reduce the unit cost of the car. We might be locked into that difficult cycle, which is why I fear that we will not get a huge increase in numbers in privately owned electric cars.

[Andrew Selous]

I take my hon. Friend’s point about the length of time that it can take to charge a battery, although perhaps not having to shell out £85 might compensate for that in quite some significant way. May I ask him about the technology developed by Better Place, which can literally swap over batteries in less than a minute? At least that is quick and would perhaps answer the issue that my hon. Friend quite properly raises.

[Iain Stewart]

If that could be delivered, I would be absolutely delighted, but I have not seen any evidence that that is a practical solution. If my hon. Friend has evidence to the contrary, I would be interested to see it. I have outlined what I fear the barriers are; they are not insurmountable but a challenge none the less.

I see a better future for electric cars in the fleet and hire market. My initial thoughts on that came from our Rail 2020 Select Committee inquiry. On a European visit, we met with Dutch state railways, which gave us a presentation on an integrated transport system with smart ticketing technology that involved rail, bus and increasingly hire of electric vehicles in city centres, and it is now heavily promoting that. We have a real opportunity in this country for the development of electric cars. They are not cars that people will personally own, but they could be hired on a very short-term basis for 30 minutes or an hour or for a day or a couple of days. By shifting the responsibility for recharging from the individual driver and user to the fleet company or hire company, we would be able to remove much of the uncertainty, which I fear will prohibit people from purchasing the cars themselves. It would also help in the siting of charging points. Local authorities could work with the hire companies and whoever owns the fleet to strategically position points so that the cars are dealt with in an efficient way. It would also address the fear that was mentioned by the hon. Member for Liverpool, Riverside (Mrs Ellman) about the potential overload on the electricity system if the pattern was that people come home from work and plug in their car.

Mr Robertson, you might recall that at about this time last year, you and I attended a conference in Copenhagen with European transport and environment committees. One concern expressed was that the demand from electric cars might be so great that the only way to spread the load would be to introduce price limits and controls to discourage people from charging their vehicles at particular times, which defeats the whole object of the system.

By having more of the recharging done by fleet or hire companies, we would be able to stagger the recharging of cars in a more uniform way and avoid the overload that could potentially happen if the consumer pattern was to start charging at 6.30 in the evening. It would also help with the planning of some of the issues of standardisation that the Select Committee has identified.

A better rate of decarbonisation in privately owned cars will be achieved through the development of hybrid car technology. The body weights of motor vehicles are increasingly coming down: a number of manufacturers that I have talked to have high ambitions of delivering carbon savings by developing not wholly electric cars but hybrid and lighter vehicles. That, I feel, is the biggest potential saving, but there is a role for electric cars as well.

Before the Government commit too much money in going down one route of providing plug-in places and all the other infrastructure, I urge them to take a step back and assess whether there are other ways in which we can more effectively see an increase in electric vehicles.

Finally, let me make one separate point, which the hon. Member for Liverpool, Riverside briefly mentioned, and it neatly bridges in to the second debate on road safety. Having very quiet or near silent cars on the roads poses a potential danger for pedestrians, especially for blind and partially sighted people. The Guide Dogs for the Blind Association is running an effective campaign on that, and wants a noise gadget to be introduced so that electric cars can be heard by visually impaired people.

As part of the Select Committee’s inquiry into disabled access to transport, with Guide Dogs for the Blind I took a bus journey blindfolded. Losing the power of sight is an incredibly scary experience. The purpose of the ride was to investigate audio announcements on buses, but when I was at the side of the road, I became very dependent on hearing cars. If they become so quiet that they cannot be properly heard, it could cause a real danger.

There is perhaps a market in creating different noises for cars. One could buy a little run-about car that sounds like an Aston Martin. My hon. Friend the Member for South West Bedfordshire talked about developing new technologies; I have just suggested one, and as Aston Martin is a very good employer in Milton Keynes, I heartily recommend it. Perhaps we could return to that issue of road safety in the second debate. I urge the Government to consider the matter.

Road Safety

Iain Stewart Excerpts

Thursday 25th April 2013 Westminster Hall

[Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) (Con)]

I shall endeavour to be as brief as I can, Mr Bayley. First, I must declare an interest as a trustee of the Parliamentary Advisory Council for Transport Safety—an unremunerated trustee, I hasten to add.

I want to raise three broad points. The first is one I mentioned in the previous debate on electric vehicles. The Government need to address the fact that electric vehicles are very quiet, which poses a particular danger to visually impaired people. I was reassured by the Under-Secretary of State for Transport, the hon. Member for Lewes (Norman Baker), that action is being taken at European level. However, it is important for road safety that the number of casualties does not increase with the number of quieter vehicles.

I also want to focus on the two groups where there is the biggest risk of road safety issues increasing: cyclists and young motorists. There have been a number of debates on cycling in the House. Several technological innovations, such as sensors on lorries, mirrors and the like, will help, but there are two essential components to making cycling safer. One is greater separation of cycle paths and roads, and the other is training. Milton Keynes is a leading example of separation; we have a completely separate cycle network. I appreciate that that would be difficult to retrofit into more traditional towns and cities, but that is the way forward; it is the single biggest thing we could do. On training, the Government need to explore new ways of building into training for drivers and cyclists the need to be more considerate of other road users. Many cyclists and motorists are perfectly considerate, but too many—an aggressive minority—believe they own the road, and that is true on both sides. When that mentality exists, accidents happen. I would therefore welcome the Minister’s comments on how we are improving training.

Finally, on young motorists, a number of initiatives to reduce the risks they face are worthy of consideration, and the hon. Member for Liverpool, Riverside (Mrs Ellman) mentioned the use of increased technology in cars. Real-time information, a black box recorder or whatever we call want to call it, will also be an exciting way of reducing motor insurance premiums. If a young driver knows someone is watching them, that will encourage better behaviour.

There are other proposals—I will not go through them in detail—about restricting the times young motorists can drive and the number of passengers under a certain age they can have in their car, as well as having a zero alcohol limit for newly qualified drivers. The Government should have a way of evaluating all those options and, indeed, the type of scheme my hon. Friend the Member for North Herefordshire (Bill Wiggin) ably mentioned.

There is another suggestion I would put on the table. The Institute of Advanced Motorists is an excellent organisation, but I am not certain the training it makes available for young motorists is that widely known. Perhaps the Government could facilitate a publicity campaign and work with insurance companies so that drivers who had further accreditation could have a discount on their motor insurance premiums. In the interests of time, however, and to give both Front-Bench speakers a decent chance to comment, I will conclude my remarks there.

Rail Franchising

Iain Stewart Excerpts

Tuesday 26th March 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr McLoughlin]

A lot of rolling stock has been and is being ordered. I hope to see a roll-out to all areas, including the hon. Gentleman’s constituency.

[Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) (Con)]

I very much welcome the statement as a sensible way forward for franchising, but may I urge my right hon. Friend to use the temporary extension of the west coast franchise to urge Virgin and London Midland to work together temporarily to ease overcrowding on services from Euston, in the evening peak at least, until the full franchise is let and London Midland’s new train order comes through?

[Mr McLoughlin]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend, who follows this subject particularly closely, not just for his constituents but as a member of the Select Committee on Transport. I know that he sent me and my right hon. Friend the Minister of State, Department for Transport a fairly comprehensive letter, which I hope to respond to shortly, and I will see what can be done.

Crossrail 2

Iain Stewart Excerpts

Tuesday 5th March 2013 Westminster Hall

[Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Weir.

I congratulate the right hon. Member for Tottenham (Mr Lammy) on securing the debate and on his powerful and eloquent support for Crossrail 2. I am not a London Member of Parliament, but a large proportion of my constituents travel into London daily, while a growing number of Londoners travel out to businesses in Milton Keynes. That is exemplified by the new Network Rail headquarters, which is based in the centre of Milton Keynes. I want to make a short contribution to the debate for two reasons: first, to talk about the improved connectivity that a scheme such as Crossrail 2 could deliver; and, secondly, wearing my Transport Committee hat, to pick up on a couple of the points that the right hon. Gentleman made about High Speed 2 and, once it has been developed, the capacity at Euston.

I know the commuting line to and from Milton Keynes well, and the volume of passengers into and out of Euston at the morning and evening peaks is growing. Getting on a Victoria or Northern line tube train is an art at times; it is not uncommon to let two, three or four trains go through before being able to board one. The upgrade to the Victoria line with the new stock has improved the situation, but I suspect that it has merely bought time and that in a few years the line will be as congested as ever. Having a line such as Crossrail 2 going through Euston, therefore, would be a major benefit to arriving commuter passengers. It would improve connectivity with different parts of London, make public transport more attractive and encourage a modal shift, with all the environmental benefits that that would gain. It would be a win-win for Londoners and for people in the northern home counties and beyond travelling into London. To strike a slightly confrontational note with the Minister, given that he represents Wimbledon, I note that the line would connect Wimbledon to Euston, so it might allow AFC Wimbledon fans to travel to see MK Dons, were the two teams to play each other regularly in future.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Stephen Hammond)]

There may or may not be outstanding benefits from Crossrail 2, but that would certainly be a disbenefit.

[Iain Stewart]

The Minister and I agree on many things, but we will disagree in our football team allegiance.

On whether the proposed scheme for Crossrail 2 is the optimal one, I have an open mind. It might be, but a slightly different one could be used, linking with the North London line to Willesden and elsewhere and with extra branches. I have an open mind, but I am happy to support the principle of Crossrail 2.

My second point is in the context of High Speed 2. If HS2 goes ahead with its planned route into Euston, that will deliver a huge increase in the number of passengers into and out of the station. For the reasons I mentioned, I fear that the existing tube network will not be able to cope. Yes, some passengers will get off at Old Oak Common and come into central London via Crossrail 1, but not all will. I suspect that a comparatively small percentage of the arrivals will want Euston as their destination; they will want to travel on to other parts of London. If they are faced with enormous congestion at Euston, the attractiveness of HS2 will be diminished and its business case undermined; however, Crossrail 2 feeding in more people to use HS2 from Euston would augment the business case, about which there has been controversy lately.

The purpose of my contribution was briefly to make those two points. I am supportive of the principle of Crossrail 2 and happy to look in further detail at specific schemes. I am also happy to join the all-party group, once it is up and running. I will not make any comments on the funding, although I agree with the point made by the right hon. Member for Tottenham that the cost of doing nothing might be far too high. I congratulate him once more on securing this important debate.

High Speed Rail

Iain Stewart Excerpts

Monday 28th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr McLoughlin]

I face a dilemma because some people want us to go a lot faster while others among my colleagues do not want us to go at all. We will have to bear that in mind, but I hope that we will have fuller plans before any decision is made about independence. That depends, however, on whether the hon. Gentleman can let me know the date of the referendum.

[Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) (Con)]

I welcome my right hon. Friend’s statement, particularly how it has highlighted the benefits of the network to my constituents in Milton Keynes. On the issue of city centre against parkway stations, may I draw his attention to the evidence from the continent that both can work and that the critical point is having good connectivity across the region? May I also urge him to continue to work with local authorities and local businesses to make sure that this delivers?

[Mr McLoughlin]

I thank my hon. Friend for his support and, indeed, for his work on the Transport Committee. I agree entirely with his point. Setting out our plans now and confirming them, I hope, by early next year will enable us to look at connectivity between stations in the period between our plans being outlined and the actual development.