Rail 2020

Kelvin Hopkins Excerpts

Wednesday 3rd July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Ellman]

Addressing fares is an important matter, which I shall refer to later, although we have not specifically considered the report that the hon. Lady mentions.

An important aspect of our inquiry examined Government policy on franchising, particularly in relation to securing value for money. During our inquiry, franchising policy was thrown into disarray when the competition for the inter-city west coast franchise was cancelled as a result of major errors made by the Department for Transport. We published a report on that issue earlier in the year.

A number of serious mistakes were made by officials, but there were also policy failings for which past Ministers were ultimately responsible. The review of franchising that Richard Brown undertook at the request of the Department concluded that it was not sensible to let a 15-year contract for the west coast franchise without a break clause. He also drew attention to the difficulties caused by cutting back on resources while attempting to meet an ambitious timetable. The Department has now published a new timetable. The postponement in tendering for new franchises means a delay of 26 years, with consequential uncertainty for the industry and potential financial implications. I will return to that issue later.

Rail poses a number of policy challenges. Increasing numbers of passengers have led to overcrowding on some routes, and capacity constraints can rarely be resolved quickly or cheaply. It is also important to remember that rail investment is vital for regeneration as well as for relieving overcrowding. The provision of rolling stock is complicated and expensive. Fares are often too high and difficult to understand, and a wide variety of fares are often available for the same journey, from heavily discounted “advance purchase” tickets to very expensive “anytime” walk-on fares. The structure of the industry is complex, and there is suspicion that it creates opportunities for money to leak out of the system, some of it in the form of unjustified profits.

The rail subsidy peaked at £7 billion in 2007-08, and the previous Government asked Sir Roy McNulty to consider how to secure value for money. His report was published in 2011. His most striking conclusion was that there is a 40% efficiency gap between the UK railway and four European comparators: France, the Netherlands, Sweden and Switzerland. Reasons given for that disparity include the fragmentation of the rail industry, poor management, problems with franchising, and cultural factors. He made a wide range of recommendations aimed at achieving a 30% cost reduction in the industry by 2019.

Although the rail subsidy has fallen in recent years, it is higher now than in the years before privatisation. In real terms, the passenger railway costs 50% more than in the early 1990s, and there are a number of reasons for that. Increased demand has led to new capital projects and rolling stock.

[Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend may be interested to remember a report by Catalyst which found that productivity under British Rail was, at that time, the highest in Europe. Since then, things have changed dramatically.

[Mrs Ellman]

My hon. Friend makes a relevant comment.

As Network Rail’s debt has grown, more money is being spent on servicing that debt than ever before, and train operating costs have increased. Rail subsidy is necessary. Few rail lines would be profitable on a commercial basis, and even potentially profitable lines would lose passengers if the national network was cut back. There are good environmental and social reasons to subsidise the railway, and we were pleased to hear that the Government share that view.

Although the Government want to cut the subsidy, it is not clear what level of reduction they seek and under what time scale. Neither is it clear exactly where the subsidy goes at present. The Department should articulate more clearly why it subsidises rail and what taxpayers get for their money. We recommended that the Government consult on and publish a clear statement of what the rail subsidy is for and where it should be targeted. The Department’s reply was disappointing and focused on practical difficulties because of current funding arrangements. There is scope for much more work in that area.

This issue illustrates the lack of transparency in the rail industry. That has now started to change with recent work by the Office of Rail Regulation and the disclosure of wide variations in the financial performance of different routes and operators. Establishing why those variations occur will be crucial to ensuring that the rail subsidy is well spent.

Securing the efficiency savings indentified by McNulty will be challenging, particularly as they require different parts of the industry to work together in new ways. More than £1 billion is expected to be saved from train operating costs. I am concerned, however, that the savings have been put at risk by the Department’s problems with franchising. In many cases, existing franchisees will be awarded new contracts to run services for as long as four years. The Department will struggle to drive a hard bargain with existing operators without going to the market. I ask the Minister whether the Department’s decision to prioritise the re-tendering by 2015 of the east coast main line, currently operated by the Department’s company, Directly Operated Railways, will weaken the Department’s bargaining power as it seeks to extend franchises. It is clear that the Department does not want trains to be run by the public sector.

[Mrs Ellman]

I thank my hon. Friend for his comment. The Minister was questioned in the Select Committee and it became apparent that the Government’s decision was to do with Government policy. I, for one, did not hear a compelling value-for-money reason for the decision.

There are a number of ways of assessing whether a franchise delivers value for money. The letter that the Minister sent to the Committee on 4 June stated that, over the three years 2009-10 to 2011-12, the inter-city east coast franchise produced a net return to the Department of £563 million. The letter also stated that, over the same period, the west coast main line made a net return of £290 million. The Minister certainly did not accept that that meant that the east coast franchise produced better value for money, but I am simply presenting the facts in the letter as a contribution to the debate. One consequence of the decision has been the postponing of the re-letting of the west coast franchise by 29 months, to April 2017. The previous timetable had been announced as recently as November. It is a matter of concern that such constant change is unsettling for the industry.

We have already seen two direct awards to current operators, and neither has demonstrated how the Government can secure a better deal for passengers or taxpayers. In the case of the west coast franchise, we were told that there might be new services to Blackpool and Shrewsbury, but they have not materialised. The old Essex Thameside franchise paid money into the Department. The new one, a directly awarded contract to run until September 2014, will cost the taxpayer money. Will the Minister acknowledge that there will be problems in achieving the McNulty savings in the light of the franchising fiasco and its aftermath?

The Committee recommended that the Department should strengthen its commercial capability in relation to assessing franchises, that it should consider franchises being let and managed by a Department agency or arm’s length body, and that it should consider spreading premium payments over the full length of the franchise. We suggested that franchise periods of seven to 10 years would be appropriate while the situation was being reviewed. Indeed, a review is now taking place, and we hope to hear the Government’s conclusions shortly.

During our inquiry, the rail unions argued that the privatised structure was the main cause of inefficiency in the industry, and that renationalisation would bring costs down. McNulty rejected that argument, saying that renationalisation would

“take years to complete, cause major diversion of effort, incur massive costs, and delay progress on improvements”

that were under way.

[Kelvin Hopkins]

It has been said many times that all that is needed to solve the problem is for the franchises to be awarded to Network Rail.

[Mrs Ellman]

Having considered all the evidence before it, the Committee decided that McNulty’s proposed methods of achieving efficiencies should be given a chance, although some concerns were expressed. We felt that if the McNulty savings did not materialise, the arguments for more far-reaching structural changes would be compelling.

We have identified a number of issues that the Government must get right if the railway is to continue to grow and become more efficient. The McNulty recommendations include calls for ticket office hours to be reduced, for driver-only operating to be the norm, and for salary restraint. The Committee considers that any changes in staffing, terms and conditions and salaries should be made in the context of a wider programme of changes made throughout the industry and after full consultation with trades unions. Any changes in the numbers and duties of station staff should not be pursued solely to reduce costs, but should reflect changes in passenger ticket-buying behaviour, and should be designed to improve passengers’ experience at stations, including their perception of safety. We were very concerned about the possibility that reducing staffing at stations and on trains would make the railway less safe, particularly at night, and would deter women and vulnerable users from travelling by train.

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[Kelvin Hopkins]

Perhaps the rents from premises on stations will go to the railway industry, but profits will go to the retailers, so retail development at stations would not make much difference, I would have thought.

[Iain Stewart]

I must disagree. Airports derive a considerable part of their income from the retail space at airports, and I see no reason why railway stations could not do the same. I am not saying that it would transform the economic model of railways, but it would be a useful additional source of income.

As I was saying, retail development is happening at smaller stations. Denmark Hill station is a lovely Victorian building, which is being remodelled so that, instead of a fairly horrible little ticket office and coffee machine, there will be a swish café, making it a much more attractive environment that will encourage people to use the railway. There is a lot of scope in such developments. I would even suggest that, where the Government are trying to reduce Government real estate costs, they might consider moving services such as post office counters into railway stations. It would be a bit of joined-up government to have public services all available in one spot. That is just one little suggestion, but at the heart of all this is the ability of the private sector to innovate, provide different services and deliver what the customer wants.

[Kelvin Hopkins]

It occurs to me that if all the retail outlets and hotels were, perhaps not renationalised, but taken back into, say, Network Rail, all the income and profits would go to the railway sector, rather than retail.

[Iain Stewart]

The hon. Gentleman seems to have a rose-tinted view of British Rail. I gently remind him of the nationalised British Rail catering options, from the curling cheese sandwiches to the tea and coffee that were indistinguishable. I would support private innovation in that field.

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[Alison Seabeck (Plymouth, Moor View) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Riverside (Mrs Ellman), in her usual expansive and thoughtful way, gave a very detailed assessment of her Committee’s work, particularly in relation to rail franchises. Its excellent and extremely thorough report on public support for the railways and the implications of Government spending plans, as well as the subsequent report on the collapse of the west coast main line franchise, paints a worrying picture of an overcrowded, overpriced and, at times, dysfunctional railway system that needs continued public support.

The Committee also expressed a view on the delicate balance that needs to be struck, but which is not always achieved, between the Government seeking savings and seeking, at times, to micromanage while at the same time not always listening to rail users and lacking accountability, specifically in relation to the franchise process.

From a south-west perspective, we have the great western main line carrying 50% more passengers than it did 10 years ago. Network Rail states that the line is full. In 2002-03, 72 million people used the line, and in 2012-13 the figure was 110 million. The Reading to Paddington trains account for six out of 10 of the most overcrowded journeys in the UK. There is simply no more space for extra trains at peak times to relieve those pressures at the moment.

As the Select Committee acknowledged, the competing pressures mean that freight lines—so important, although that is perhaps not always fully recognised by the House—commuter lines and community lines, as well as intercity services, are almost at breaking point in some areas. On the main line between Penzance and London there is at times single-track running, in part because of the topography. Lines run along the seafront at Dawlish, and locals have concerns about that as the sea level rises.

To the great anger of people living in the far south-west, there is a sense that none of the problems is likely to be resolved because investment in rail has been made elsewhere in the country under successive Governments. We know from answers to parliamentary questions that transport and rail spend per person in the south-west is lower than virtually anywhere else in the country.

[Kelvin Hopkins]

I am sorry to disturb my hon. Friend’s flow. She was talking about the competing demands for freight and passenger capacity. Does she not agree that if freight could be dealt with by alternative infrastructure investment, freeing up the main lines for passengers yet again, that would make a real difference?

[Alison Seabeck]

That argument can certainly be made by people in the south-west, in respect of whether there is scope for realigning the routes for the main line and allowing freight to use some of the older lines. However, the issue is complicated and hugely expensive, as I am sure the Minister would be the first to tell me. There are a lot of people, certainly in the south-west, with a lot of good and interesting ideas. Were the money available, I am sure that Governments of all complexions would be prepared to consider them.

The investment started under the last Labour Government at Reading and in Crossrail will improve reliability and connectivity. However, the geographical constraints on the tracks’ infrastructure in the south-west will continue severely to limit the maximum line speed and extend journey times. If we are serious about reducing pollution and car use, it should not be quicker to drive from Tiverton or Exeter to Plymouth than to take the train.

The fragility of the south-west’s infrastructure has been ignored repeatedly. The recent severe floods affecting the signalling near Taunton, washing away the line at Cowley bridge, has served only to reinforce the view in the south-west that people in Whitehall do not have a clue about the potential for economic growth in the region.

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[Ben Gummer]

The hon. Lady did not admit to the role of the private sector when I spoke to her about German railways. Of course, there is a role for the state—that is what we are discussing. Any railway has a necessary monopoly: only one train can travel at a time and it has to be owned by somebody. Unlike road, it is not possible for two trains to travel on the same track at the same time, so the state has to intervene at some point in order to regulate and subsidise, as it does with road travel.

We have seen the results of privatisation since 1995. Rail travel has increased by 133%. It is at a higher rate than in the 1920s in absolute numbers. Rail freight has also increased to a point that would have been impossible to imagine in the 1960s and 1970s.

[Kelvin Hopkins]

The hon. Gentleman is raising, yet again, a correlation, not a cause and effect. Railway usage has gone up despite privatisation, not because of it.

[Ben Gummer]

The hon. Gentleman is a marvel of this House and is respected deeply by many Members on both sides of the House. However, he must see that the graphs of declining rail use up to 1995, for both freight and passenger, were turned on their heads after privatisation. That is not just a correlative effect, but a causal one.

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[Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab)]

I will not spend too much time on the public-private argument, because that would go on for ever and we would probably never agree.

I mentioned that the Catalyst report of some 10 years ago found that British Rail had the highest productivity of any rail system in Europe. That was not because it was performing ideally, but because there was so much underinvestment that it was working “miracles on a pittance”, in the words of Tom Winsor, who was the rail regulator some years ago. He went beyond that to say that BR handed the rail system over to the private sector in good order. There was desperate underinvestment, but it did its best in difficult circumstances.

As a commuter of 44 years on Thameslink and its predecessors, I love railways. Their renaissance has been a wonderful thing and I want it to continue. I have always thought that railways would be the transport mode of the future, not the past. If one goes back 20 or 30 years, one recalls that they were regarded with utter cynicism by the Department for Transport. A senior official was put on to the BR board, as was the custom in those days. He arrived at his first meeting and said that he had come to oversee the demise of the railways—that was the attitude. Everybody thought that the great freedom-loving individualists would go by car, not by this collectivist, socialist system called rail. Nevertheless, we have seen a renaissance in the investment and use of the railways. Indeed, just about the only way to guarantee to get to a place on time is to go by rail. I could not possibly drive to Parliament at peak times; it would be impossible. I remember that my father used to drive from the suburbs of London into Kensington every day, but people could do that 50 years ago. It would not be possible now. People have to go by public transport—or, specifically, by rail. Railways are wonderful things.

[Mr Kevan Jones]

Does my hon. Friend agree that increasing congestion on the roads is one reason rail usage has gone up, not the great privatisation, which is what the hon. Member for Ipswich (Ben Gummer) thinks is the reason?

[Kelvin Hopkins]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We have seen people travelling longer distances to work and growth in the economy, particularly in London and the south-east, leading to much more commuting from longer distances to take advantage of lower house prices further from London, and so on. The amount of travelling that people need to do has increased enormously. The only way they can do it is by rail. I speak as someone who is sometimes asked by people, “How long does it take you to drive to London?”, to which I say, “I don’t know and I’ve never done it”—why would I, from Luton to London every day? That is my view of rail. I have been a passionate supporter of railways for a long time.

However, since privatisation we have seen a surge in costs, not just on the operating side, but on maintenance and track renewal. Time and again when Labour was in office, I raised with Transport Secretaries the fact that the costs of maintenance and track renewal had gone up by four or even five times since privatisation. The reason was largely to do with the move towards more contracting and away from direct works. That contracting involved lots of lawyers and layer upon layer of project management, all of which meant bureaucratic cost, which is still the situation now. Indeed, after some time maintenance was brought back in-house. The problem was that the bad habits established while it was contracted out continued and the same people who operated in the contracted-out version carried on doing the work in-house, so there was not much difference. We have to look back to how things operated in the days of BR, when they were done much more efficiently.

Direct employment of engineers is crucial in that. Rather than having project managers running schemes, with layer after layer of project management, and engineers employed as consultants, we should have engineers directly employed by Network Rail and running schemes from the top, not being brought in as expensive consultants.

[Iain Stewart]

May I draw the hon. Gentleman’s attention to the example I gave of the electrification of the Paisley Canal line? It involved the train operating company, Network Rail and Babcock engineering, a private contractor that delivered the project considerably under budget and two years ahead of schedule.

[Kelvin Hopkins]

There are undoubtedly examples of good practice, but there are many, many examples of bad practice, involving cost overruns and things being done expensively.

Having an engineer at the highest level in projects is crucial. Project managers cannot make judgments about technology in the way that an engineer can. We need track engineers, signal engineers and people with all those kinds of skills, which are gradually disappearing because we are not training enough in-house. In future, I hope there will be a move back towards direct employment of engineers. So that is where we are.

There is also a need to invest in infrastructure. We are talking about “Rail 2020”, not longer-term investments in things such as HS2, which we debated only last week. That is all years away—it might even be parked in a siding, which I would not object to either, although that is another view. Obviously I welcome the electrification plans. They are tremendous, but other things could be done—and need to be done quickly and could be done inexpensively—to make major improvements. As I said last week, upgrading the east coast main line, for example, could make a tremendous difference, even simply by doubling the viaduct at Welwyn. At the moment, there are just two tracks over the Mimram. If there was another viaduct, there would be four tracks and the bottleneck would be overcome. That would cost something, but nothing like the billions we are talking about with HS2. If we had east-west flyovers at Peterborough and Newark, it would free up the track for fast operation.

As I mentioned last week, a 1990 test run was undertaken by BR to see how a fast train could operate from King’s Cross to Edinburgh. Remarkably, the line was cleared for the test run and the train ran to Newcastle in two and a half hours, with a two-minute stop there, and then onward to Edinburgh in three and a half hours. That showed what could be done if the track were upgraded on a regular basis. Three and a half hours to Edinburgh is eight minutes faster than the time HS2 is now advertising. It is not heavily trafficked, and if we took the freight off the east coast main line, we could—with longer trains, more modern signalling and a bit more of an upgrade—get much more capacity on that line very cheaply. I should mention, of course, that King’s Cross could also serve Leeds in that way in an hour and a half. With a 140 mph operation—the sort of speed that is possible not throughout the line, but for much of it—this King’s Cross to Leeds service could bring more capacity.

The problem with the west coast main line is essentially the London to Birmingham route. As I said last week, there is an easy way of overcoming the problem by upgrading the Paddington to Birmingham Snow Hill route through Banbury. A 125 mph operation on that line would be relatively easy, with longer trains, a bit of upgrading and more modern signalling. That could effectively double the capacity for getting to Birmingham, and it would not be difficult or expensive. Paddington will be on the Crossrail route. From the City, then, someone could travel Crossrail to Paddington and straight through to Birmingham Snow Hill in the centre of Birmingham, overcoming a major problem. The station proposed for HS2 is rather further away from the centre than Snow Hill is, so some of the advantage of that is lost. Going further north, there is a stretch of 10 miles or so with three-track working north of Rugby. If it were made four-track, it would overcome a bottleneck and increase capacity going through to the north-west. As I said, things could be done that are not expensive and they could be brought in quickly, so that by 2020 all these things could easily be in operation.

Most important of all, we have to look at investment for freight. I have personally been heavily involved in a freight scheme idea—it is not a pecuniary interest, but a political interest—and I believe we need new freight infrastructure. If we could get all the freight off the existing main lines on to dedicated freight infrastructure, we could solve enormous problems. Freight and passengers do not mix well, as they have different operating speeds. Passenger trains tend to go faster and are more reliable, whereas freight goes on long, slow and heavy trains, which do not fit well with passengers.

There is a scheme to overcome that problem—at least on the north-south line linking the main conurbations. I have proposed the GB Railfreight route, and last week I put in a submission on behalf of colleagues to Network Rail for its consultation on freight. The GB Railfreight route would be a dedicated line going all the way from the channel tunnel to Glasgow, linking all the main conurbations in Britain.

The important thing about freight, of course, is that 80% of it goes by lorry and trailer, not by container, so we would need to have a freight route capable of taking lorries on trains. Without that, we will not see the big modal shift from road to rail that we need. This scheme proposes precisely that, taking the largest lorries on trains. This is happening all over the continent of Europe with dedicated routes. New tunnels are being built through the Alps that are capable of taking through the largest sized freight. If we could run trains directly from Rome to Birmingham or from Berlin to Glasgow without interruption by passenger trains on a dedicated freight route capable of taking lorries on trains, I think we would see a transformation of the links between our regions and the continent of Europe, which would also breathe new life into the regional economies that so many Members represent. That scheme is a realistic proposition. It could be built quickly and cheaply, and all it needs is a nod from the Government. I have met previous Secretaries of State and officials from the Department for Transport and put the case to them, and it is a realistic prospect that I hope will be taken seriously. It has the backing of supermarkets, hauliers and so on.

One important point I wish to make to the Minister is that such a scheme would use existing track route, under-utilised lines and old track bed. Only 14 miles would be new line, and nine of those would be in a tunnel. Two routes would have to be electrified to a sufficient gauge to take lorries on trains: Gospel Oak to Barking, and Wigston to Chesterfield in the midlands. If on those routes the gauge was raised to a sufficient level and able to take full-scale lorries on trains, the scheme would work. Those lines will be electrified—rightly so; we welcome that—but if they could be raised to a sufficient gauge to accommodate that sort of freight, it would be a tremendous advantage. If that is not done and the freight scheme goes ahead later, we will have to do the work all over again, which would be an expensive irrationality.

That is what I suggest. The scheme would take up to 5 million lorry loads off our roads every year. It would take all the north-south traffic off the west coast main line, the east coast main line and the midlands main line, and breathe new life into the economies of Scotland, the north-east, the north-west and south Yorkshire. There could eventually be a link to south Wales and Birmingham, and of course to London and the south-east, and it would link directly to the continent of Europe.

Trains currently take lorries from the continent through the channel tunnel, but they can get only as far as the terminal at Barking where they are lifted off. They cannot get past Barking because the gauge is not sufficient to accommodate them. In a sense, the first phase of the scheme is already operating, but we want Governments and Network Rail to grasp hold of the idea and build the freight line that we think will transform Britain’s transport infrastructure. I hope that what I have said is helpful to Ministers and of interest to fellow hon. Members.

[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Riverside (Mrs Ellman) for her contribution, and for the work she does as Chair of the Transport Committee not only on rail but on all transport matters. As we have heard, passenger numbers are growing and the amount of freight on our railways has increased, and it is important to bear that in mind when talking about the future structure of railways in the UK. The argument made by the hon. Member for Ipswich (Ben Gummer) that those increased numbers were somehow down to the fact that John Major got privatisation so right stretches his ideological point a little far. As my hon. Friend the Member for Luton North (Kelvin Hopkins) said, in recent years the increase in car ownership and congestion mean that many journeys cannot be made by road within a sensible time, and—quite rightly—people are using the railways.

An efficient and well structured rail system for the UK is not only important to provide the transport links we rely on for individual travel and freight; it is also vital for our economy, especially in regions such as the north-east of England. That is why investment in our railway system is so vital. We have heard a lot of talk over the past few weeks about the capital investment projects outlined by the Government, but over the next two years we will actually see a reduction in the transport budget of some £300 million. A lot of the investment projects that have been outlined are jam tomorrow, or even jam a very long way into the future. Capital investment in our railways now would not only improve the situation in the ways outlined by my hon. Friend the Member for Luton North, it would stimulate the economy. Such investment would not be wasted; it would boost the economy of the United Kingdom and it would certainly improve the economies of regions such as the north-east of England.

We had a debate on High Speed 2 last week. When I opened the Daily Mail this morning, I found myself in a rather difficult position, because I found myself agreeing with Lord Mandelson. That has to be a first, although I was not sure that I could believe what I was reading. Some of the points he raised were perfectly legitimate, however. The investment in HS2 is going to be enormous and, I have to say, regions such as the north-east will see very little benefit, even when, in the longer term, the high-speed route reaches Newcastle or beyond.

There has been a silly argument about high-speed rail being an alternative to regional air transport in this country. I do not agree with that; I believe that the two can compete alongside each other, as the hon. Member for Ipswich said earlier. For someone travelling from the north-east to Bristol, for example, flying is a better option than taking what is at the moment a long train journey. I do not think that the investment in high-speed rail will produce greatly reduced journey times to Birmingham and beyond. I also fear that it could sap scarce capital investment from the existing rail network.

We have to thank the Victorians for many things, and our existing rail network is one of them. It was a good example of their forward thinking. I accept that, under nationalisation, a number of Governments starved the network of investment, and that that led to some of the problems that we now face. However, that should not take away from the achievements of British Rail, including the introduction of the high-speed InterCity 125 service. That was so far-sighted that the service is still running today.

As my hon. Friend the Member for Luton North has said, we could achieve some quick and relatively inexpensive changes to the north-east main line for a fraction of the cost of HS2. Those changes would have a dramatic effect on journey times and, as he said, they would achieve a modal shift as we moved freight off the roads and on to the railways. Before we embark on the full investment in HS2, those proposals need to be looked at seriously. They are doable and relatively cheap, and they would benefit many regions of this country, not 20 or 30 years in the future but now.

[Kelvin Hopkins]

I agree with everything my hon. Friend has said—not just the compliments he has paid me but the earlier part of his speech, with which I strongly agreed. The outside estimate for the GB Freight Route scheme is £6 billion, which is a tiny fraction of what is being proposed for HS2.

[Mr Jones]

My hon. Friend makes a very good point. We also need to consider the multiplier effect of such a scheme, and the economic benefits to regions such as the north-east. There would be benefits in reduced journey times, and in the increased amount of freight on the railways. The climate change cost would also be reduced as we got freight off the roads, and the scheme could create regional expansion in areas such as County Durham.

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[Mr Jones]

The hon. Gentleman may have had the privilege of contributing to Lord Adonis’s report, but I was never even asked for my opinion. I think that many things in that report are complete nonsense, and that it has been given a status in the north-east far beyond its content. What my hon. Friend the Member for Luton North has proposed would increase connectivity in the north-east at a far lower cost than HS2, and would, I believe, be of more benefit to the north-east.

It interests me greatly that the hon. Member for Hexham is now enthralled by Lord Adonis’s report and believes that it is the answer to the problems of the north-east’s economy. I am afraid that I do not share his view, and I think that if he talks to people in business and to his parliamentary colleagues, he will find that many of them do not share it either. The debate about the investment in HS2 needs to take place, and I hope that it is not too late for some of the decisions that have been made to be reconsidered.

[Kelvin Hopkins]

One assumes that the hon. Member for Hexham (Guy Opperman) would travel to Newcastle on HS2, and would then take a slower train from Newcastle to Hexham. In fact, in 1990 a train on a British Rail test run travelled to Newcastle in the same time that it would take on HS2.

[Mr Jones]

Exactly—and if we are talking about the scarcity of capital, we should consider the upgrading of links to Hexham. In my constituency, some existing lines could be opened up. The Leamside line, for instance, could take freight off the main routes.

Let me now say something about East Coast. My hon. Friend the Member for Blackley and Broughton (Graham Stringer), who is not in the Chamber at present, wondered why the Government were in such a rush to return to privatisation. As he said, the line is contributing to the Exchequer, and is performing well in terms of punctuality and the quality of the service that it provides. Investment in rolling stock is clearly needed. However, the staff have worked hard to ensure the success of the line since renationalisation. They should be given credit for that, and for the tremendous loyalty that they have generated among the travelling public.

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[Mr Burns]

Improved rail links to major ports and airports will support inward investment, trade and connectivity.

Electrification will provide faster, more reliable services on the midland and great western main lines and elsewhere. We have confirmed funding for the completion of electrification of over 324 route miles and added a new requirement for a further 537 route miles. That means that we are funding electrification of 11% of all route miles in England and Wales. Our programme contrasts with the approach of the previous Administration, under whom fewer than 10 miles of track was electrified during their 13 years in power. By 2020, about three quarters of passenger miles travelled in England and Wales will be on electric trains, compared with just 58% today.

We have provided a £300 million fund to improve passenger journey times. There is £200 million for stations across England, including £100 million to support accessibility. A further £200 million will build a better network for freight.

[Kelvin Hopkins]

I am delighted about the massive investment going into railways; I am sure we all support that. Does the Minister agree, however, that it is important to preserve the existing old corridors that could be used for rail travel in future? Will he undertake to make sure that the Woodhead tunnel in particular remains a possibility for rail travel in future?

[Mr Burns]

I have considerable sympathy with what the hon. Gentleman says. It is important that we consider opening new railway lines or reopening lines that have been removed but whose beds remain in place where there is demand and need for them and if the business case backs it up. Tunnels are an important and topical issue that has come across my desk and we are looking at it very carefully.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Burns]

As I was saying in answer to the hon. Member for Nottingham South (Lilian Greenwood), the Secretary of State made it clear last September that what happened with regard to the west coast main line was unacceptable and apologised for it. Even more importantly, he set up the Brown inquiry and the Laidlaw inquiry. I will not rehearse what they did, but the Brown inquiry came up with recommendations to ensure that we learn from that mistake and that it never happens again. We have a new franchise timetable, in keeping with the recommendations of that report, to ensure that we minimise the opportunities for that mistake to happen again.

[Kelvin Hopkins]

Will the Minister give way?

[Mr Burns]

I must make progress, because it is almost time for me to finish.

The Rail Delivery Group is showing how collaborative working across the rail industry can secure improvements in asset programme and supply chain management. We are working through our franchise programme to facilitate regional partnership working arrangements and alliances between train operators and Network Rail, as has been mentioned by a number of hon. Members.