Rail Strikes

Huw Merriman Excerpts

Wednesday 15th June 2022 Commons Chamber

[Huw Merriman (Bexhill and Battle) (Con)]

Whenever I rise to speak, I always take the energy out of the room, which in this instance may be no bad thing if we are to get ourselves a settlement here.

These strikes are such a huge shame to this industry. We have a situation where diesel is rising to £2 per litre, we have challenges at the airport and we are going into the summer months looking at the leisure market. This should be the time when we can grow our rail market back to the levels it was pre pandemic. Let us remember that rail services used to pay for themselves—indeed, back in 2018 they paid £200 million to the Exchequer—but we have seen that situation reversed to a £16 billion taxpayer subsidy.

In my years both on the Select Committee and chairing it, I have always tried to engage positively with the trade union movement. I certainly did when it came to airlines’ cutting staff; I remember being on the picket line with hon. Members from Brighton with Unite staff. Indeed, the hon. Member for Brighton, Kemptown (Lloyd Russell-Moyle) said that someone had asked, “Which one of you is the Tory?”, which one would not normally expect with him.

I have always spoken out where I have felt that the workforce have been treated badly, but I must say that rail workers have always enjoyed positive pay. I fished out a release from the RMT back in 2019 where it congratulated itself on an inflation-busting pay rise for its members. Rail workers earn 70% extra on a median basis compared with the typical UK worker. This is a well-paid workforce, and I will always continue to ensure that they are supported and well paid, but they must bear in mind that we need reform on the railway if we are to make it better and safer for passenger and worker.

[Stephanie Peacock (Barnsley East) (Lab)]

The Chair of the Select Committee has talked about engaging with the trade unions, which I know he has done positively. Does he agree that his Government should get around the table, facilitate those negotiations and talks and take some responsibility?

[Huw Merriman]

I will always support engagement positively. The trouble is that in order to do that, we need industrial action to come off the table, since it is only next week. Of course unions will not do that, because that is their leverage, but it is foolish for a negotiator on one side to allow those talks to commence without any certainty that there will be some give on the other side. I used to work as a negotiator, so I understand how these things operate: there has to be give and take from both sides. It is not good enough to write a letter saying, “We will talk immediately,” without reducing demands or saying, “The strikes will be postponed so that we can have those talks.” I do not believe that letter says that, but that is what is required.

It was right during the pandemic that we threw everything at ensuring the railways operated. It was right then, but if it was right then to get essential key workers to their places and people to their hospital appointments, then it is absolutely right now, given that we have given £16 billion of taxpayers’ money—not our money, but taxpayers’ money—into supporting the rail system.

I want to talk about safety, because that is bound to come up. When we ask for reform, which of course will produce savings, we are also talking about innovation and technology that will make the railways safer. I will give an example: there is no need for railway workers to be walking on the tracks to undertake certain jobs when technology—drones and cameras under the bottom of train carriages—can do those jobs instead.

I have a report in this folder from the Rail Accident Investigation Branch looking at a tragedy in Surbiton, telling Network Rail that it needs to get more of its workforce off the tracks and make more use of technology and innovation. This is not just about safety, efficiency, cost-cutting or manpower-cutting, particularly when we are delivering HS2 and Northern Powerhouse Rail and Crossrail has just been delivered. There are jobs in the rail industry, but they must be modernised to make them safer for all.

[Tahir Ali (Birmingham, Hall Green) (Lab)]

I come from a maintenance background and I know how maintenance works. When you get rid of engineers, you cannot replace them. You cannot decide one day that you have got rid of 500 too many maintenance staff or engineers; they are specialist workers who need training over the years. Once they have gone, so has the knowledge.

Drones and technology can replace people to some extent, but not to the extent being proposed. How do you suggest that the jobs that will be affected will not put at risk the safety of the people using the trains and lead to future crashes that would cost the lives of transport people?

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

Order. Interventions do need to be short and not directly addressing the hon. Member.

[Huw Merriman]

Following your lead, Madam Deputy Speaker, I will just give one example: cracks to rail. Technology now allows a sensor camera underneath a train to click 70,000 images per minute. That replaces an individual’s eyes or teams of men tracking. I would maintain that that not only makes it more likely that the cracks will be spotted, but means it is not necessary to put people on the asset, which is dangerous to them and means closures that we do not need when the train is operating.

This is not rocket science related specifically to the rail industry. Every single industry innovates, moves forward and develops. This Chamber may seem a funny place to stand and say that working practices are rooted in the past, when this very place is all about that, but the way we speak and operate here does not necessarily impact the lives or enhance the passenger services that I believe we could do in rail, if the industry as a whole, working with the workforce, developed and innovated in the manner I advocate.

I come back to the point about collaboratively working together. It is essential. I saw to my cost, as an MP in the region that includes Southern Railway, damaging strikes that went on for far too long. Passengers could not get to work; it had a huge impact on the economic community and on the workforce. The crazy thing about that strike, which was about who opened the doors, the guard or the driver, was that it ended up being settled with a pay rise for drivers. Ironically, that was on the ASLEF side; the RMT side, which started this, did not get that pay rise. The ASLEF drivers got a pay rise of 25% over three years.

I would say to those on the Front Bench: “Of course take leadership, make that noise, but you have to ensure that you see this through.” There is nothing worse than starting this action, causing industrial relations to decline, and then finding out that we withdraw; it would be better not to do it at all.

[Lilian Greenwood]

rose—

[Huw Merriman]

I will give way one more time because the hon. Lady is my predecessor on the Select Committee.

[Lilian Greenwood]

The hon. Gentleman knows that I have a great deal of respect for the work that he does, but what conclusion does he draw from the fact that there are no rail strikes going ahead next week in Wales, where there has been an active, responsible Government seeking to bring people together and resolve issues? Is it not precisely the point that active government can get the two sides together and attempt to resolve the issues?

[Huw Merriman]

I certainly take that point, but just I heard from another member of our Committee that Network Rail is still striking in Wales, and when it is about Network Rail members of the RMT, that tends to shut the railway down. In my example of when the RMT was striking in the Southern region, that did not shut the system down because that only happened when ASLEF drivers were involved. We will both check the record on that, no doubt, but that is how I am informed.

[Sir Greg Knight (East Yorkshire) (Con)]

rose—

[Huw Merriman]

I will take one last intervention and that is it.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

Order. I should perhaps explain that if two interventions are taken there is extra time, but after that there is not, so I am afraid that the hon. Gentleman has run out of time.

--- Later in debate ---

[John McDonnell]

Let me press on.

Let us also be clear about wages in the industry, which are linked. The median wage is £31,000. Drivers are largely represented by ASLEF, so the vast bulk of people who we are talking about are station staff, cleaners and others whose wages range between £20,000 and £30,000. We are not talking about people on very high wages, so inflation proofing is important to them at the moment

The third demand is where we have some problems—I understand that. It is that when there are changes in jobs and conditions of work, they should be subject to negotiation and—this is the difficult bit—agreement. We know that this dispute will be settled at some stage, so the issue is how bloody it will get. What we all have to do, as I say on the RMT parliamentary group as well, is to facilitate an exchange that enables a resolution.

That is why today’s letter is important. The hon. Member for Bexhill and Battle is right to say, “Well, it was unconditional”, but it is unconditional from the Government as well. At the moment, it is important to just get everyone through the door. The Government have not put conditions on and neither has the union. The union has not asked for conditions from the Government, and nor should the Government ask for conditions from it. Often, in organising a ballot about industrial action, time limits are in place. At this time, when we are faced with the disruption that is there, an act of good faith such as sitting in the same room is important—it might not work.

[Huw Merriman]

I am in danger of agreeing with the right hon. Gentleman, who makes a very good point. It may well be, in return for giving way a little in saying, “Okay, we’ll sit down with you and then not strike”, that the RMT needs to hear that there will not be a need for compulsory redundancies, because the way the workforce works, voluntary redundancies should probably be taken up anyway and then that could be the natural progression.

[John McDonnell]

The hon. Gentleman knows what these negotiations are like. My background is the National Union of Mineworkers, then the TUC and so on—I have been a trade unionist for the last 50 years—and in every sort of negotiation, the key issue is just getting through that door. Once we get through that door and are face to face starting those negotiations off, anything can happen. We have all been there, and we can have a bloody great row, but at least we are talking. That is all the RMT is asking for.

Let me just say that Members need to know the atmosphere at the moment. I have been talking at various union conferences—I was at Unison yesterday and all the rest—and there is a concern that we are going back to the 1980s, and I saw what happened in the 1980s. My hon. Friend the Member for Wansbeck (Ian Lavery), who is here, was an active miner at the time, and I was a member of the NUM head office. What happened then was that there was a Government will to somehow take on the trade union movement, and we got described as the “enemy within”.

If anyone thinks it is to their advantage politically to start taking the RMT on as the enemy within in this situation, they are sorely mistaken, because it is not just about the RMT. At every union conference I have been to, there is a real anxiety. There is an anxiety about protection of their members against this cost of living crisis, and I have to say that there is an anxiety about protecting themselves against some of the threats that have come from the Government—minimal services, bans on overtime and all the rest—which is inflammatory when we are trying to get a negotiated settlement.