Oral Answers to Questions

Huw Irranca-Davies Excerpts

Wednesday 24th February 2016 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Crabb]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. First, though, let me put on record our congratulations to him and his wife, Clare, as it is a few days after the birth of their second child. It is wonderful to see him taking a break from paternity leave to stand here today championing the interests of his constituents in Cardiff. He is absolutely right on two counts. The first is on the success of bringing the Aston Martin deal to Wales, which is a great example of the Welsh and the UK Governments working together in a true team Wales approach. The second is on the importance of business and the fact that it is right at the heart not just of helping to create the city deal vision, but of delivering it as well.

[Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab)]

Let me pass on my congratulations to the hon. Member for Cardiff North (Craig Williams). I also congratulate the workforce in the St Athan area—in the seat of the Under-Secretary of State for Wales, the hon. Member for Vale of Glamorgan (Alun Cairns)—and the Welsh Labour Government on their support for that project, the Cardiff city deal and the Swansea city deal. Will the Secretary of State confirm that the support will be there for Cardiff and for the proposal by Terry Matthews for an “internet coast” that links Swansea and west Wales as well, as that is where we will drive the jobs into Wales?

[Stephen Crabb]

The hon. Gentleman has raised a number of different initiatives all together in one question. The common thread running through them was the nature of partnership working, and we need to see more of that. I am talking about the Welsh Government, the UK Government and local partners all working together. The Aston Martin deal shows the fruit that can be borne when we have the right kind of attitude and commitment from the Prime Minister, the First Minister, the Ministry of Defence and excellent local MPs such as the Under-Secretary of State for Wales. I have discussed the Swansea city deal with Sir Terry Matthews. We are really interested in understanding it in a bit more detail, and we want to work with the Swansea city deal partners as well as our partners in Cardiff.

Draft Wales Bill (Morning sitting)

Huw Irranca-Davies Excerpts

Wednesday 3rd February 2016 General Committees

[Antoinette Sandbach (Eddisbury) (Con)]

rose—

[Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab)]

rose—

[Stephen Crabb]

I will give way to the hon. Gentleman who is shortly to be a Member of the Assembly.

[Huw Irranca-Davies]

Indeed, I have a vested interest in this in more ways than one. The Secretary of State is trying valiantly to play a very difficult hand, but I suspect he is running out of cards. How does he respond to this week’s report that highlighted in depth, with detailed analysis, both fundamental and detailed points of principle that were wrong? The conclusion was that that suggests an unwillingness to take Wales seriously. I ask him, in all seriousness, how he responds to that.

[Stephen Crabb]

I respond to the hon. Gentleman by saying, in all seriousness, that this Government take Wales very seriously. We take Wales so seriously that we did not do what his Administration did, when he was a Minister in the previous Labour Government, and bury our heads in the sand over the inequities of the Barnett formula. They have admitted that they were unwilling to address that issue. We are bringing forward the funding floor. This Government took the decision to have a referendum for the people of Wales on having full law-making powers.

[Huw Irranca-Davies]

This Bill does not do it.

[Stephen Crabb]

In the details of the report that came out today, and in other academic reports, there are some good and important points. We have taken the report away and are looking at it very closely. The whole point of having pre-legislative scrutiny is to use it as an opportunity to think again and take views from a very broad range of stakeholders.

I have to say, having read some of the evidence presented to the Welsh Affairs Committee and to the Welsh Assembly’s Committee, sometimes the people giving that evidence are asking a different question from the question we are asking. The question they are asking is, “How do we craft a piece of legislation that expands the remit of Welsh government and Welsh law-making?” If that is your only question, of course you will find failings and limitations in the Bill. If you are trying to balance that question with the question of how to regulate the interface between the two legitimate Governments for Wales: the UK Government and the Welsh Government—how to ensure clarity about who is responsible for what, how to build in respect for the devolution settlement so that we do not get Governments crossing over one another’s boundaries, changing each other’s functions without a clear consenting process in place—then you cannot avoid coming up with some of the procedures and mechanisms in the Bill.

Oral Answers to Questions

Huw Irranca-Davies Excerpts

Wednesday 13th January 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Last but not least, I call the Chair of the Environmental Audit Committee.

[Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab)]

Swansea bay tidal lagoon and the other potential lagoons that may result from it provide amazing opportunities for exports of intellectual property, technology and supply chains across south Wales. Will the Secretary of State at least commit to making it happen and doing it as soon as possible?

[Stephen Crabb]

I repeat the answer I gave to the hon. Gentleman’s colleague. We recognise that this is a potentially very exciting and significant project, in delivering low-carbon renewable energy over a long period. We need to look carefully at the finances to ensure that it delivers value for taxpayers, who will be asked to put a large amount of subsidy into the project.

Spending Review and Autumn Statement: Wales

Huw Irranca-Davies Excerpts

Tuesday 15th December 2015 Westminster Hall

[Alun Cairns]

The surveyor and architect of fair funding for Wales, Gerry Holtham, analysed the position and came up with a range of solutions. After the autumn statement, he said that it was a fair settlement. That is the fundamental point. There will be political commentary from all around, but the person commissioned by the Welsh Government to provide the assessment and establish the financial relationship between the UK Government and the Welsh Government has said that it is a fair settlement, and that is testament to the strength of the Administration in Westminster, which has delivered on something that has been talked about, but never delivered, by the Opposition.

[Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab)]

My apologies, Mr Hollobone, for arriving a minute into the debate. On the 115% Barnett floor, why is it only for the term of the Parliament? What is the Government’s thinking behind that? The Minister will be aware of the worry that there is no long-term commitment. I am sure he will say, “Governments can only bind one Parliament”, but what is his thinking, long term?

[Alun Cairns]

Having been a Minister, the hon. Gentleman will know that no Government can bind another Government, though I would largely welcome a Government that could bind a Labour Administration, hopefully in the long-term future, to prevent them from pursuing the sorts of policies that they would want to introduce. Clearly, that is not how democracy works. It is obvious that this Administration can only plan for this Administration, and it would be wholly wrong and inappropriate to come up with commitments that bind any future Administration. The hon. Gentleman tried hard to draw something from me, but I hope he will respect the argument that he would be making, were he standing in my position.

I hope that Opposition Members recognise the commitment. The surveyor and architect of fair funding said that this was a “very reasonable” and fair settlement. Any political rhetoric on the issue needs to recognise the comments of that independent commentator.

Another element of the autumn statement enabled the Welsh Government to alter Welsh rates of income tax without a referendum. That offers exciting opportunities to attract new investors, and tax powers to reform the Welsh economy. The Welsh Government can take on more responsibility for how they raise money, as well as how they spend it. The National Assembly will finally take its place alongside other mature legislatures by being accountable to the people it serves. The new tax-raising powers put important fiscal levers in the hands of the Welsh Government, which they can use to grow the Welsh economy, to deliver new opportunities and to attract new investment.

Silk estimated that a 1p cut in the higher rate of tax would equate to a drop in revenue of £12 million. That is only a little more than the Welsh Government reportedly lost selling land in Monmouthshire, for example. Think of the opportunities that the cut of one penny could create: tens of millions of pounds might be spent on business support, or other discrete areas of the Welsh Government. People can now make a comparison: should they pursue one policy, given its cost to the taxpayer, or another, such as reducing the rate of income tax to attract investors and entrepreneurs to Wales?

[Huw Irranca-Davies]

The leader of the Conservative party in Wales has opened up the front on this matter by proposing a 5p drop in the top rate of income tax. That would equate to £40 million or £50 million, which is not a drop in the ocean in terms of the Welsh budget. It is curious that the leader of the Conservative party in Wales thinks that that is the best way to incentivise entrepreneurship, rather than investment in infrastructure, the innovation funds and everything else. Why does it have to be a cut in the top rate of tax? How many people on the frontline of our public services, including nurses and the police, have already been cut? Have the Conservatives made those calculations when committing to a 5p cut in the top rate of income tax?

[Alun Cairns]

The hon. Gentleman is demonstrating his misunderstanding, because he compares capital projects with revenue projects. The rate of income tax would affect revenue projects only. These are the sorts of policies that could be presented in a manifesto. People can choose whether they want to see money spent on pet projects of the Welsh Government or a cut in income tax. People will make their choices according to their objectives, but it is up to each political party to make its case. The whole point about the autumn statement is that it empowers the Welsh Government to make the case on whether it should be spending more or less.

Barnett Floor (Wales)

Huw Irranca-Davies Excerpts

Tuesday 10th November 2015 Westminster Hall

[Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab)]

May I take my hon. Friend’s thoughts back to 2008, when I was a Wales Office Minister? The budget for Wales had gone up from £7 billion to £14 billion; by the time we left office, it was £16 billion. It has now decreased significantly. Any false arguments over additional tax-raising powers are nothing compared with the fact that we now need the Barnett floor. When Labour was in government, it was Barnett-plus; we now need a Barnett floor.

[Nick Thomas-Symonds]

My hon. Friend makes a powerful point. Record investment in public services in Wales was made under the Labour Government. Indeed, the Conservatives were so impressed that in September 2007 the then shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer—now Chancellor—adopted our spending plans for the next couple of years. That is how impressed they were, although these days they seem to be taking a different view of that record investment.

The Barnett floor works by multiplying positive funding increments to Wales not only by the comparability factor and population share, but by a further percentage increment. The qualifier is that the formula is not intended to work in reverse, with negative funding increments, because that would simply widen the underfunding gap.

In October 2010, the National Assembly for Wales unanimously endorsed a motion for the implementation of a funding floor, to be followed by wider funding reform. Nevertheless, the coalition Government of 2010 to 2015 did not deliver.

--- Later in debate ---

[Alun Cairns]

The specifics on that point will be outlined in the comprehensive spending review by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor.

[Huw Irranca-Davies]

Will the Minister give way?

[Alun Cairns]

With the greatest respect, I need to make some progress in the limited time remaining.

Last month, we published the draft Wales Bill, a key part of providing a clearer devolution settlement. We all want a funding floor for Wales, and it is right that that is accompanied by the devolution of income tax powers, because, by raising more of the money they spend, the Assembly Government will be more accountable to the people of Wales. Since 2010, Wales has recorded the fastest growth per head in the UK outside London, demonstrating the dynamism of the funding and spending position. Wales had the joint fastest growth of all the regions and devolved nations in 2013, with gross value added growing by 3.4%, well ahead of the figure for the UK. It is now time to move the debate forward and encourage the Welsh Government to use both the powers they already have and the new ones they are gaining to drive further growth in the Welsh economy.

Some specific points were raised on funding for local authorities. That is a matter for the Welsh Government—they decide how much money should be distributed to local authorities. I know that many in my constituency complain about how the cake is sliced in Wales, but that is the responsibility of the Welsh Government and it would be improper were this Government to intervene in those sorts of issues.

I underline that this Government are absolutely committed to introducing the funding floor as stated in the St David’s day agreement. We will introduce it as part of and alongside the comprehensive spending review.

Question put and agreed to.

Oral Answers to Questions

Huw Irranca-Davies Excerpts

Wednesday 16th September 2015 Commons Chamber

[Alun Cairns]

There has been great success in encouraging people to learn Welsh in Wales. Of course, that should not come at the cost of any other language. It is important that we champion that success: bilingual education can work and does work. We will encourage as many people as possible to learn not only Welsh, but modern foreign languages in Wales and across the UK.

[Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab)]

I know that the Minister, who has a coterminous boundary with me, will want to congratulate the pupils and teachers in schools in his constituency and mine who this year produced record summer results for A-level students and an improved performance at A* to C in GCSEs in English language, Welsh, maths and science. Rather than talk them down, will he congratulate those students and schools?

[Alun Cairns]

The hon. Gentleman either ignored the answer I gave earlier or prepared his script before he came to Question Time. I did congratulate the students who succeeded. My point was that we need more students in Wales to succeed because there is a worrying gap between the success in England and the success in Wales.

Wales Bill

Huw Irranca-Davies Excerpts

Wednesday 10th December 2014 Commons Chamber

[Alun Cairns]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his intervention, but I do not agree with him on that specific point. The Wales Bill provides the opportunity for the Assembly to introduce a referendum on tax varying powers, to the degree that we have already considered. That will extend the franchise specifically in this area. It learns the lessons from Scotland and creates the opportunity for us to reinvigorate young people in this area. However, the debate on the franchise in general for other elections is very different; there is no general consensus on that across all parties in the House and it is a constitutional matter that will be ongoing. It is not part of this Bill, but I have no doubt that it will form part of future debates that many parties will want to have.

[Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab)]

Further to the points made by the hon. Members for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr (Jonathan Edwards) and for Montgomeryshire (Glyn Davies), extending the suffrage down to 16 and 17-year-olds could indeed be part of a manifesto commitment. Such an approach might avoid the problem of the referendum being on a narrow issue to do with tax and of this measure being in one Wales Bill, and it would replicate the commitment made by the leader of the Labour party this week to do just that.

[Alun Cairns]

The hon. Gentleman makes an interesting point, but that is a major constitutional change covering lots of other political areas and it is well beyond the scope of this Bill. I am seeking to address amendments that will allow the Assembly to make progress in this area, should it wish to do so. It is up to the Assembly to make its own decisions. This provision devolves the power for it to extend the franchise to 16 and 17-year-olds. However, it is important to recognise that there is no consensus across parties on the issue of changing the franchise to allow 16 and 17-year-olds to vote in elections in general.

In the specific case of the income tax referendum, the Government have listened to those who have called on them to look afresh at the issue. When the Secretary of State took office, he said that he wanted to be pragmatic and to listen to the views of the people. Part of that pragmatism is recognising the impact that the Scotland referendum had on politics across the whole of the United Kingdom.

[Huw Irranca-Davies]

To assist the debate, may I use the example of a 96-year-old person whom I met on Sunday? He was receiving the Ushakov medal for his work on the Arctic convoys. At the age of 14, he enlisted with the merchant navy and spent six months training on HMS Warspite and then sailed up the Amazon nine months later. He was certainly ready to vote, and so were the students who met me in Parliament last week to discuss the importance of voting at the age of 16 and 17. Let us just bite the bullet and do it.

[Alun Cairns]

I pay tribute to the hon. Gentleman’s constituents and to the two constituents in my own constituency who have recently received medals from the Russian Government. None the less, he makes a point that goes well beyond the scope of the Bill, and that will be part of an important debate in the future. He will be able to make his point again when the time comes.

Government Policies (Wales)

Huw Irranca-Davies Excerpts

Wednesday 26th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[Owen Smith]

My right hon. Friend is entirely right. Of course, it is not only the changes to welfare that are having an impact on people in Wales. A culture of fear and insecurity is increasingly becoming the norm in the workplace, with between 50,000 and 70,000 Welsh workers now employed on zero-hours contracts. Some 200,000 Welsh workers are self-employed. I note that the Secretary of State has said in the press today that those people are effectively entrepreneurs, but the reality is that they are people who are increasingly being forced into bogus self-employed status and counted as entrepreneurs by the Office for National Statistics.

[Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend will know that there has been a rally today of UCATT, Unite and other unions—and I will take no jeering at union members by coalition Members on this issue—on behalf of construction workers. They are now working for bogus, so-called umbrella companies who sanction—take out of—their pay the employer’s national insurance contributions to annual pay, so they go home with a far smaller wage at the end of the week. That is despicable, but I remind coalition Members that it is a function of the sort of economy and the hands-off Government that we have.

[Owen Smith]

Yes, it is an economy of maximum insecurity for the work force and maximum security and flexibility for employers. Invariably these days the employers are umbrella companies, supply agencies or contract companies, and often people do not even know who is employing them. We do know that the number of self-employed workers in Wales has gone up by 17,000 since the Government came to power, but their incomes have crashed by more than a fifth. Similarly, in Wales there are now 71,000 part-time workers who wish they were working full time. That is up from 54,000—an increase of almost one third under this Government. Those are the hallmarks of the culture of insecurity—the culture of fear—in the workplace that is now affecting Wales and the rest of the country.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Stephen Crabb)]

I am delighted to follow the shadow Secretary of State for Wales and to have the opportunity to talk about the record of the UK Government in Wales. I notice that the Opposition changed their minds on the original motion that they sought to table. I believe it was originally entitled “The disastrous effect of Government policies on Wales”. It seems that they no longer believe that to be the case, and quite right too. We are winning the argument and we have not even begun our speeches yet.

We have to ask ourselves why, at this precise moment, the Opposition have tabled such a ludicrous motion and are trying to talk down the Welsh economy and present a black caricature of what is happening inside the Welsh economy when last week was such a successful week for Wales. On Friday, the Prime Minister, Labour’s own First Minister of Wales, business leaders and journalists stood together at Celtic Manor for the UK Investment Summit, rallying together to bang the drum for the huge strides made in the Welsh economy in recent years. Why would Labour choose to have such a debate at this time to talk down the efforts we are all making to secure new investment and new job creation in Wales?

[Huw Irranca-Davies]

I would applaud any jobs created in my constituency, but I will tell the Secretary of State why we are having this debate today. A guy came into my surgery two weeks ago and showed me his payslip. It was disgraceful. An umbrella company was taking more than £50 from him to contribute to its—the company’s—employer’s national insurance contribution, and deducting £35 as a contribution to his own annual leave. According to HMRC he was employed by the company. Does the Secretary of State condone or condemn such companies?

[Stephen Crabb]

I condone companies that invest in Wales and create jobs, which is the most important thing in driving up wages. Let us be clear about this on both sides of the House: we acknowledge and recognise that wages are not where we would like them to be in Wales. We want to see real wages going up in Wales. The best hope for workers in Wales to see real increases in wages is more job competition: the creation of more and higher quality jobs. That was exactly the purpose of last week’s investment summit. Welsh Labour Members really need to make up their minds. They say one thing at this end of the M4, but back down the road in Cardiff they say another thing about what is going on inside the Welsh economy. They need to make up their minds on whether they back Welsh business or not.

[Huw Irranca-Davies]

The Secretary of State is making a strong and forceful case. Will he argue as strongly and as forcefully for the groups of construction workers in my constituency who are now up to £100 worse off, for the youngsters who are at the beck and call of employers on zero-hours contracts with no continuity and no certainty of employment, and the people working in two part-time jobs because they cannot get one full-time job? Would he say that they are benefiting from the economy in the same way?

[Stephen Crabb]

We feel equally offended by the abuses in the workplace that the hon. Gentleman describes. The record of the coalition Government is actually very positive: increasing penalties for companies that do not pay the minimum wage properly, and consulting on the abuse of zero-hours contracts and taking action.

--- Later in debate ---

[Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to follow the right hon. Member for Torfaen (Paul Murphy). I congratulate the Secretary of State for Wales on his positive and upbeat view of the situation in Wales, which can be contrasted with the doom and gloom from the Opposition. Indeed, I shudder at the possibility of the hon. Member for Pontypridd (Owen Smith) becoming the Secretary of State for Wales. He would be our own version of Private Frazer, going around saying, “We’re all doomed.”

In effect, what is happening in Wales is a success story, and that is hurting the Opposition because that is not what they want to hear. They want to claim that it is only the Government who can make a difference to the people of Wales, but the truth is that it is this Government who are showing quite clearly that it is the people of Wales who can make the difference. It is the people who are willing to take responsibility for themselves and to make a success of their lives. Effectively, this Government are giving the people of Wales that opportunity; they are not saying that they can depend on the Government for hand-outs.

The Opposition should be truly ashamed that they are highlighting figures in relation to poverty levels in Wales. Labour has been in government at a local or national level in Wales for the past 100 years. Where the Labour party is strongest, poverty is at its greatest. It should look at the valleys of south Wales and feel truly ashamed of what it has done to our proud nation. Labour in Wales has failed, failed and failed again. This coalition is giving people a sense of honour and integrity and a belief in their ability to make a difference once more.

[Huw Irranca-Davies]

rose—

[Guto Bebb]

I will not take an intervention from the hon. Gentleman. It is about time that the Labour party heard some hard truths about the way it has failed Wales time and again. That failure in Wales is replicated in Scotland. The Scots have seen through the failure of Labour; it is about time that the people of Wales did the same.

The people of Wales should turn to the Conservative party and this coalition, as we are showing people that we can make a difference to their situation. We can ensure that we create employment. In my constituency, unemployment has fallen by 42% since the coalition came to power, and we should welcome that fact. I am proud of every single one of those jobs. My constituency had 13 years of a Labour MP, and it is not hard to guess what happened to the unemployment figures—they went up. With this coalition, unemployment is falling. We have an increase in the number of people employed and self-employed in my constituency, and we should be proud of every single one of those individuals.

The Opposition always say that they can make a difference to Wales, but they believe that the difference lies in the hands of Government. We believe that difference can be made by people setting up their own businesses and making a success of those businesses. Last week, the Under-Secretary of State for Wales, my hon. Friend the Member for Vale of Glamorgan (Alun Cairns), visited two businesses in my constituency. We failed to visit a third because the owner was in London winning an award. That owner is not just the UK butcher of the year but a man who started a business that now employs 60 members of staff—[Interruption.] The Labour party is laughing at entrepreneurial job creation in my constituency. My hon. Friend then visited the Welsh food centre, which was established two years ago and now employs 60 members of staff. It is the largest privately led project in north Wales and has been receiving funding from the European Union. It is a fantastic success story—somebody had a vision; they were willing to implement it and take a risk with their own money. [Interruption.] The hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) is chuntering from a sedentary position. He does not understand what running a business means, let alone appreciate the difficulties. It is that type of success story that is changing lives in my constituency.

The success of small businesses in my constituency has been helped by the fuel duty freeze and the cuts implemented by this Government. The Labour party, by contrast, has bled our rural communities dry with its fuel duty escalator. My constituency also has a significant number of people of above-average age, including a lot of pensioners. Despite the economic inheritance that the Labour party gave us, those pensioners have been protected by the triple lock. The degree of respect that they have been shown by the coalition contrasts with the insult of the 75p pension increase provided by the Labour party. Labour Members say that their party looks after the poorest in society, but it was willing to forget our pensioners. In difficult economic times, the coalition has not forgotten our pensioners, and those people will remember that at the general election.

A key point to remember is the way we have tried to be reformist in difficult times. The Government’s introduction of the single-tier pension is immensely important to a constituency such as mine, which has a significant number of self-employed people. In such times, the coalition Government are not scared of taking long-term decisions that will make a real difference to my constituents’ lives. We hear complaints from Labour Members about changes to the welfare state, but we know why: they like a compliant, complicit population. The truth of the matter is that the welfare state in Wales was not working and we needed to ensure that changes were made.

One of the key successes of welfare reform throughout the United Kingdom, although perhaps not so much in Wales, is the Work programme. Its huge success will grow, as National Audit Office reports clearly show. Labour Members often talk about the Work programme supporting the lowest hanging fruit, but no one—not a single individual—accesses the Work programme unless they have been unemployed for at least 12 months. Compare and contrast that with the situation under Jobs Growth Wales which, by the way, I have supported and publicised to my business community. Under that programme, a person can be a graduate today and on Jobs Growth Wales tomorrow, but someone cannot get on the Work programme until they have been unemployed for 12 months, so it genuinely helps the hardest to reach. Jobs Growth Wales has done a good job, but it is not an attempt to support such individuals. We have a success on our hands—

--- Later in debate ---

[Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab)]

I am delighted to follow that excellent contribution by my good friend the Member for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen), which struck the right balance between the necessary optimism and the vision we have for a better future and the real challenges.

It has been a passionate debate and I have been as passionate as many with my interventions, but I want to say first that when I speak for my constituents, I speak for all of them. Many of them are in small businesses and micro-businesses—one man or one woman operations that they intend to build up slowly. They drive the economy locally. I also speak, however, for people who work within the set-up of Raspberry Pi down at the old Sony site at Pencoed in my constituency, and who have reinvented a way to take computers forward, so that everybody can pull them apart and put them back together, and use them in schools and for developing nations, and have different applications for them. They are helping our trade balance, and that is a fantastic story, as is the story of Ford Bridgend in the neighbouring constituency represented by my hon. Friend the Member for Bridgend (Mrs Moon). Ford consistently employs and invests in that plant, and takes on many apprentices.

[Stephen Crabb]

I am pleased that the hon. Gentleman has mentioned the case study of Raspberry Pi. Does he agree that this is a great example of what we now call reshoring? It has brought back the manufacturing of this product from China to the UK, helping the trade balance. It is a great example of what we mean by rebalancing the economy.

[Huw Irranca-Davies]

I agree. It is an astonishing story, showing how sometimes the coincidence of business and political networks meeting happens, so that an offhand conversation can lead to a company thinking, “Well, why do we have to be out in the far corners of the world? Why don’t we come back here? We have a skilled work force.” Sony Bridgend, which has had difficult times over the past couple of decades, has re-engineered itself as a national award-winning centre of design in manufacturing and production, and that is what attracted the company back. It has been a huge, rip-roaring success, and there are another 20-odd companies on that site that we hope will build up as well.

That is all good, and I welcome every instance of the claimant count dropping, but we also have to look at the other side of the story. As parliamentarians, no matter what seat we represent, we have to look at the kind of jobs that those individuals are going into. As my hon. Friend the Member for Ynys Môn said, we need to ask whether they can get credit or a mortgage. Can they think seriously about setting up a home for a family and a future? Can they rent somewhere?

I am sure that Members on the Government Benches know in their heart of hearts that behind the claimant count drop there are a lot of people who want to be paid a bit more, who want to work a few more hours and who want the certainty of a permanent contract with the protection that any decent employer would surely want to give to a decent worker. That does not involve loading burdens on an employer. Government Members often tell us that we know nothing about this, but I can tell them that I have managed businesses in the public and private sectors. I understand the challenges of balancing a business plan and bringing in the bottom line, but that has to involve treating the workers decently as well.

We cannot achieve this overnight. This is not just a case of extolling the virtues of business and job creation; let us also talk about the quality of those jobs. Let us take businesses, large and small, by the hand and ask what more we can do to lift people up by giving them skills, education and training, a decent wage and decent terms and conditions. That involves making an investment in the worker as well as in the plant. There are many good companies out there. I am trying to avoid using a soundbite, but this is a reflection of the reality in my constituency: it has an M4 catchment. We can travel down into what is still a very good manufacturing centre along the M4. Thanks to Labour’s investment over the years, people can also get on a train in Maesteg—now at a lower price than a couple of years ago, thank goodness—and travel to work in Cardiff or Newport.

Let us take as an example a youngster who has to get a minimum wage job. Getting to work could mean spending £5 a day on a ticket or driving in a clapped-out car that will cost them 50 or 60 quid a week. When they ask me whether it is worth going out to work, I will say, “Of course it’s worth it. It is always worth going out to work, because of all the good things that come from being a valued member of a work force.” I want those people to be valued. I want them to be paid decently. This debate has sometimes seemed polarised, but this is not a question of me, as the MP for Ogmore, standing here and saying that all businesses are horrible. They are not; they create the jobs. We can put some of the framework in place and make it easier for them to create the jobs, but it is the businesses themselves that create and drive those jobs, and the people in those jobs need to be treated decently.

It is not all doom and gloom in my constituency, but when I first became an MP, there was one food bank there. Now, there is not a single village without a food bank. Last week, I went to the setting up of a Christians Against Poverty debt advice centre. We already have a citizens advice bureau, as well as debt advice being given by Valleys to Coast. We have had a tenfold increase in the number of people in work who are taking out payday loans.

Yes, let us welcome job creation, but let us also be honest about what we want out of those jobs. I do not want anyone to be forced into taking two or even three low-paid jobs. They should be able to find an employer who will pay them decently to do a job with good terms and conditions and who will value their contribution. I do not want youngsters or people close to retirement to be told that their only option is a job in retail with no guaranteed hours. I do not want them to be told, “We may or may not call you but, my God, if we do, you’d better come in because if you don’t, there are half a dozen other people who will do the job instead.” I do not want that. It is not a good way to drive an economy.

Let us have some frankness in the debate. If we can say that we want job creation but we also want them to be good jobs, we will have done a good job for our constituents. That, by the way, means tackling one of the biggest scandals that I have come across recently. There has been a massive change since March or April this year, with HMRC’s new rules and its approach to umbrella companies in construction. Constituents are coming into my office, skilled, long experienced construction workers, who are £100 a week worse off. It is there in their pay slips and it is legal. It is due to subcontracting out beyond the original contractor to umbrella companies, which deduct payments from those workers. If one thing comes out of today’s debate, I hope it is that the Minister will condemn that practice and undertake to destroy it.

Welfare Reform (Welsh Valleys)

Huw Irranca-Davies Excerpts

Tuesday 11th November 2014 Westminster Hall

[Wayne David (Caerphilly) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Turner.

As a Member of Parliament representing a seat in the south Wales valleys, I am only too aware of the impact on my constituents of the Government’s changes to welfare over the past few years. I have constituents who have had to wait nine months for their personal independence payment applications to be processed or who have had zero points allocated by Atos in their work capability assessments, only to win their cases on appeal and so achieve more than 15 points. I have had numerous cases of people who have experienced unfairness because of the bedroom tax. Many constituents who have come to my surgery are genuinely struggling to make ends meet. Such individuals are close to the point of despair because of the Government’s welfare changes.

[Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this important debate and thank him for his generosity in giving way. May I draw his attention to a report that came out earlier this year, commissioned by the Government themselves, on the rise in food aid and food banks in the UK? Three causal factors were identified, two of which were the cumulative effect of benefit changes and the delays in the payment of those benefits, putting working people in the food banks.

[Wayne David]

My hon. Friend makes his point extremely well and reinforces my points about the everyday hardship experienced by so many of our people—our poor people, in particular. All of us who represent valley seats are well aware of such examples, and many others.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Alun Cairns)]

It is a privilege to have the opportunity to respond to the debate and to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Turner. I congratulate the hon. Member for Caerphilly (Wayne David) on securing this important debate.

I have listened carefully to the concerns raised by the hon. Gentleman and other right hon. and hon. Members who have contributed. The Government are making welfare changes that will turn around so many communities and offer them hope. I want to underline at the outset the context and circumstances in which our reforms are taking place.

The hon. Member for Caerphilly talked about the economic situation in the valley communities. I wonder whether he will acknowledge that although Wales is now the poorest part of the United Kingdom, that was not the situation inherited by the previous Labour Government in 1997. Over the duration of the previous Administration, Wales became the poorest part of the United Kingdom. We have heard about regeneration plans, but we did not see any of those plans succeed or transform the prospects of the communities that he highlighted.

[Huw Irranca-Davies]

Just to test the logic of the Minister’s proposition, does he recognise that the last time we saw a massive increase in those on incapacity benefit and other benefits was during the 1980s? I do not want to revisit the wholesale closure of the mines, but will he tell me what regeneration strategy was put in place at that time?

[Alun Cairns]

I find it strange that the hon. Gentleman has gone back to the 1980s. I was still in school—that is how long ago it was.

It is relevant that when this Government came to power in 2010, Wales was the poorest part, nationally or regionally, of the United Kingdom. In 1997, when the previous Labour Government came to power, it was not. There needs to be a recognition of the context in which the welfare changes are taking place. The data are quite stark. The hon. Member for Caerphilly mentioned support from European aid that has gone to west Wales and the valleys. I remember that that support was discussed as a one-off opportunity, but we have just come to the third prospective round of European aid. That demonstrates the legacy that the previous Administration left.

--- Later in debate ---

[Alun Cairns]

I am trying to get on to universal credit, but I will highlight how the poorest will be better off financially. We cannot take one policy in isolation and we must consider the reduction in unemployment—I hope that the hon. Gentleman recognises and welcomes it—as well as other economic changes.

We want a system that is easy for people to use but ensures that customers receive all the benefits to which they are entitled. We want a fair system that reflects the heart of our nation—a nation that looks after those who need it but ensures fairness for hard-working individuals and families.

Worklessness needed addressing and is being addressed. Surely we must all be concerned that 200,000 people in Wales have never worked. That is wholly unsustainable. As Welsh MPs, we should want the Government to do all they can to move people from dependence to independence. I am sure the hon. Member for Caerphilly supports that and that we can continue to enable people to free themselves from a lifetime on benefits and enable them to achieve their goals.

[Huw Irranca-Davies]

Does the Minister accept my proposal that to free someone from benefits to go into a job with poverty pay is a strange sort of freedom? Does he agree that we must ensure that that work pays and that there is no increase in the bill on taxpayers to subsidise poverty pay, as there is at the moment, including with housing benefit?

[Alun Cairns]

The hon. Gentleman makes a point that I will try to cover when I come to universal credit. The introduction of universal credit will always make people better off while they are in work. I have highlighted one example and could cite many more of people who were trapped in the benefits system. All parties have recognised the need for reform and the universal credit will bring about the change to move people from dependence to independence. Clearly, it is not good for individuals, their families or their communities to be out of work and it is certainly not good for the rest of the nation.

Successive Governments have failed to tackle the problem, but we have tackled it head-on. We are working to improve the incentive to work because it remains the best route out of poverty. Hon. Members will be pleased to hear that the latest statistics show that the number of workless households in Wales has fallen by 19,000. Across the south Wales valleys, 17,000 more people are in work since the election and almost 12,000 have come off benefits. I hope that the hon. Member for Caerphilly will recognise that.

Oral Answers to Questions

Huw Irranca-Davies Excerpts

Wednesday 22nd October 2014 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Crabb]

Being part of Europe is important for Wales-based manufacturers—there is no question about that—but when I talk to businesses all across Wales, they also tell me that our current membership of the European Union imposes burdens and costs. That is why they support the Prime Minister’s strategy to renegotiate our membership with the European Union and get a better deal for Welsh and UK business.

[Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab)]

6. What recent discussions he has had with Ministers in the Welsh Government on improvements to the rail network in south Wales.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Stephen Crabb)]

Electrification of the great western main line to Swansea and the valley lines is a transformational project that would deliver a much needed boost to the Wales economy. I am determined to find a way forward for this important scheme, and I am leading discussions with Cabinet colleagues and Welsh Government Ministers to secure this vital investment for Wales.

[Huw Irranca-Davies]

I thank the Minister for that answer. He might not be aware that the two lines with the greatest passenger growth into Cardiff in the past couple of years have been the Chepstow to Cardiff and the Maesteg to Cardiff lines, which have far outstripped other valley lines. Is he surprised to know that there is no Sunday service on the Maesteg line for people who want to get to work or to get into our capital city? Will he discuss this with Arriva Trains Wales?

[Stephen Crabb]

I was aware of that point, and I want to raise that issue with Arriva Trains Wales. The growth in usage of the valley lines is one of the reasons why we need to press ahead and create new capacity and make improvements to all the valley lines.