BBC Commissioning: Oversight

Gregory Campbell Excerpts

Tuesday 24th October 2023 Westminster Hall

[Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the oversight of BBC commissioning.

It is a joy to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Robertson. I will start by using a number of quotes from the BBC that are directly relevant to the topic. On editorial integrity and independence, the BBC describes itself as

“independent of outside interests and arrangements that could undermine our editorial integrity. Our audiences should be confident that our decisions are not influenced by outside interests, political or commercial pressures, or any personal interests.”

On fairness, the BBC says:

“Our output will be based on fairness, openness, honesty and straight dealing.”

Finally, on transparency, the BBC says:

“We will be transparent about the nature and provenance of the content we offer online. Where appropriate, we will identify who has created it and will use labelling to help online users make informed decisions about the suitability of content for themselves and their children.”

Those principles have been burning issues at the heart of the BBC for several years. For example, the salaries of the BBC’s highly paid employees were a closely guarded secret for a long time. That was indefensible even if some of those employees were not questioning others who were also paid out of the public purse, but the double standards jumped out at the viewing and listening public when they regularly probed others yet hid behind BBC executive decisions when asked about their own salaries. That position was gradually worn down, and now there is an annual disclosure without the mass exodus of talent that the corporation had used as a defence when it resisted disclosure.

Now that one issue of transparency regarding directly paid salaries has been largely resolved, we have the overlapping issue of payments made by the corporation for the commissioning of contracts, particularly when contracts are awarded to private companies owned or partially owned by several BBC presenters.

There is one player on the Northern Ireland commissioning pitch whose commissions have been paid millions of pounds in revenue for years. It is now nearly 10 years since the company Third Street Studios first received commissions. Third Street Studios was owned entirely by a BBC presenter, Mr Stephen Nolan, until last year, when a leading bookmaker in Northern Ireland became a person with significant influence in the company. According to the Belfast Telegraph, Stephen Nolan

“transferred all shares in his production company to a firm solely controlled by bookmaker Paul McLean.”

The director general of the BBC has indicated that he is favour of all the outside interests of employees being made public. Why would money earned by an employee who also has his own company, which bids for and gets numerous commissions for programmes, not also be disclosed?

The issue of fairness is relevant here, as a number of companies from the independent sector make excellent and innovative programmes but find it difficult to compete when, as regularly happens, a highly paid BBC employee gets commissions and is then able to advertise them on their own BBC radio programmes. That obviously puts someone from the independent sector at a disadvantage when the next round of bidding for commissioned programmes begins. If the BBC insider, due to excessive advertising on their own behalf, can point to good audience figures and claim they are best positioned to get yet another contract, the independent sector is likely to lose out.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I commend my hon. Friend for securing this debate. In previous debates I have raised a number of issues that were slightly different but nonetheless important. Does my hon. Friend agree that although there seems to be an unending budget for investigatory programming, the programming for diversity—in the form of Ulster-Scots programming or Christian shows and episodes—has been cut back beyond recognition? A rebalance of interest needs to take place. Does my hon. Friend accept that point, to which I have brought his attention in the past?

[Mr Campbell]

Yes, indeed. There has to be diversity in the range of directions that the BBC gets involved in. It is equally important that when programmes of the type my hon. Friend mentioned are commissioned, there needs to be transparency in how they are contracted and shown.

I have raised these issues previously, in debates on transparency in 2017 and on commissioning in 2019. In between those debates, I met senior BBC executives in both Belfast and London. I also met senior executives from the Audit Office and Ofcom to try to ensure that matters would be thoroughly investigated. Movement either ground to a halt or went exceptionally slowly. I get the impression that, just like with the salaries escapade, the BBC feels that if it can grind the process down, the issue will eventually go away. It did not manage that with salaries, and I intend to ensure that it does not with the commissioning of contracts. It is important that licence fee payers can see how much has been earned, the process followed, and how it is discharged—with the responsibility of oversight being within the ambit of the BBC.

On transparency, I understand the arguments about the commercial sensitivity of contracts, but what can the commercial sensitivities possibly be many years after a commission is broadcast? Even the Government have moved from a 30-year rule to a 20-year rule on the publication of documentation, but the BBC still seems to live in an age in which it believes we should never know how much it costs the licence fee payer to fund such an outstanding series as “The Fall”, which was filmed in Belfast and funded in part by Invest NI and Northern Ireland Screen. Series three was commissioned by the controller of BBC 2.

“The Fall” was sold in over 200 countries: in the United States via Netflix; in Australia via BBC First; in Canada via Bravo; in Latin America via DirecTV; in Brazil; in the Republic via RTÉ; across Asia via Fox international channels; and with a multi-territory deal in Germany. It had all the hallmarks of a tremendously successful project funded by the licence fee payer and carried out by the BBC. Why, then, are the details not available, as they are for any other publicly funded project? The commission was broadcast seven years ago and we still do not know how it was done.

The simple message I have for the BBC and the Government today is that if public money is used, every effort should be made to ensure that there is integrity in the system for spending it. Secrecy leads to suspicion; if there is nothing to hide, there should be no secrecy.

I come now to employees’ declarations of interest. Previously, I raised a case in which a BBC journalist in Northern Ireland was involved in presenting an investigative programme that was critical of elements of policing. After the programme was aired, I discovered that several years earlier the same journalist had been a serving police officer. She had appeared in court, had been bound over to be of good behaviour, and had left the police shortly after. That was an obvious case in which a BBC executive should have taken a prior decision about the suitability of someone like that fronting a programme that was “critical of policing”.

Viewers were of course unaware, at the time of the broadcast, of the journalist’s previous history. I mention that because similar types of issues could well emerge if commissioned programmes were to deal with, for example, the topical matter of addictive gambling and Premier League football clubs, many of which have huge gambling companies as sponsors on their shirts. How would a conflict of interest be handled if such issues were to be dealt with by a company in which a leading bookmaker had a controlling interest?

I come now to integrity. During the summer recess I was given a large volume of disturbing internal BBC material, including some from human resources and some text messages between production teams. Most seriously, I received a disturbing and alarming piece of information. The public need to have confidence in the commissioning process, because some of the processes are worth hundreds of thousands—indeed, in some cases millions—of pounds. We have to have confidence in the BBC’s internal processes when projects are awarded.

I have been given an account of a BBC internal process: an interview for a highly sought-after job in the production team for “The Stephen Nolan Show”. For context, this was a widely listened-to radio show in Northern Ireland at the time, and to work on the programme was a highly prized and much sought-after position. Indeed, a number of notable people in the Northern Ireland media sector applied for the role. Only one person was successful, while at least 10 internal and external candidates lost out.

But the process was rigged. It was not fair and lacked integrity, because the unsuccessful applicants did not necessarily lose out because they were unprepared for the interview process. They lost out because, unlike with the winning candidate, the presenter did not ring them up and give them the interview questions in advance, nor were they treated to a nice meal by the presenter before the interview.

A former BBC employee is prepared to come before this House and testify in Committee that Stephen Nolan corrupted a BBC recruitment process by giving one applicant the interview questions in advance and coaching them on how they should answer questions. I can further inform Members that in October 2018 this former employee wrote to the then BBC Northern Ireland director, Mr Peter Johnston, and told him about the corruption of the process. He is unaware of any investigation or action. The alarming thing is that that same Mr Peter Johnston now leads the investigation into the complaints against Russell Brand here in London.

This is appalling. These are not the actions of what was once a proud bastion of truth and integrity, informing, educating and entertaining without fear or favour. Truth and integrity demand a thorough investigation, with Government Ministers telling the director general that he needs to act, and he needs to act now.

BBC Local Radio

Gregory Campbell Excerpts

Tuesday 17th January 2023 Westminster Hall

[Derek Twigg (in the Chair)]

I will call Gregory Campbell to move the motion and then the Minister to respond. There will not be an opportunity for the Member in charge to wind up, as is the convention for 30-minute debates.

[Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the BBC’s role in promoting locally-based radio reporting.

A few years ago, a previous Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport, the right hon. Member for Staffordshire Moorlands (Karen Bradley), gave the standard mantra that the BBC constantly uses:

“The BBC should always have the editorial and operational independence to decide how best to serve its audiences”.

I think most people would subscribe to that, which is why I describe it as a mantra. None the less, the Government have a duty to ensure that the BBC acts in the best interests of the licence fee paying public, which is why I am grateful to have been granted the debate. I am also grateful that the Digital, Culture, Media and Sport Committee alluded last week to the subject matter that I raise today, which is the downgrading of my local BBC radio station, BBC Radio Foyle, which serves Londonderry and the north-west.

It may surprise some people—hopefully not too many—that I raise this subject, as I am sometimes described as an arch-critic of the BBC. My view is that when the BBC does well, I wish to acknowledge that, and when it deserves criticism, I am more than content to offer that. I will leave others to judge on that basis whether the description of arch-critic is accurate, given the number of times I have either criticised or praised the BBC. That is a matter for another day.

I was first interviewed on BBC Radio Foyle not long after it opened in 1979, which seems like an awful long time ago. In fact, when I think about it, it is an awful long time ago. There are a number of changes that I wish to see applied to my local radio station, but its downgrading is not one of them. Last week, at the sitting of the DCMS Committee that I have alluded to, the director-general, Tim Davie, was asked about the downgrading of Radio Foyle. He responded:

“The savings plans we have announced affect many different people and teams within BBC NI…This is a painful saving, but we believe we should be investing more in digital and be doing more across the whole of Northern Ireland in terms of developing the production sector and other things.”

Many of us would make the point that local radio is often a lifeline when things are difficult locally, and the past 24 hours are a classic example. At home, we have had exceptionally bad weather—frost and snow—with roads difficult to navigate and schools closing between last night and this afternoon. That all happened in the geographic area of Londonderry, Limavady and Strabane, in the north-west of Northern Ireland, which is right in the middle of BBC Radio Foyle’s catchment area. This morning, the very programme that the BBC is seeking to axe was able to carry information live to listeners in the catchment area who would be affected by road and school closures so that they could take action, either to avoid roads that would be closed or to ensure that their children could move to another location rather than navigate difficult roads to schools that were going to be closed. All in all, the very day that we are discussing the issue is a day that shows the importance of a local radio station. Along with the downgrading of the station and the axing of the very popular breakfast-time programme, on between 7 am and 9 am, the hourly news bulletins are to go, according to Mr Davie.

There is a concern in some sections of the community that the BBC decision is part of an anti-Londonderry bias. I want to make it clear that that is not a view I share. If it was BBC radio in Enniskillen, Portadown, Newry, Newtownards or Ballyclare, my view is that the BBC may well have come to the exact same decision. I believe it is a cost-driven decision, not a bias against a geographic location of Northern Ireland. If it had happened in their area, I would expect local representatives to do exactly what I am doing now and stand up for a local radio station in their community.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank my hon. Friend for securing the debate. He has been an advocate for the BBC. Perhaps he is not always in favour of it, but today he is speaking very much in its favour. As my colleague is aware, the promotion of Ulster Scots is a passion of mine. Although I do have many an issue with the BBC and its so-called impartiality, I have been pleased by the time given on local radio to Ulster Scots and Irish music celebration. Does my hon. Friend agree that the removal of those avenues of access leaves that essential cultural programming homeless and ensures that the BBC retains the title of being a mouthpiece for a politically motivated agenda, rather than inspiring an uplifting programme?

[Mr Campbell]

My hon. Friend is indeed right. I hope the Minister will be able to help with seeking meetings with the BBC to try and ensure that those types of programmes are reflected on a local basis.

The issue is that local radio stations very often give a voice to local people. If it was left to a more centralised BBC—in England a London-centric approach, or in Scotland a Glasgow/Edinburgh-centric approach—we would find that the further afield areas in the geographic location are not covered. That is the fear that there is in Northern Ireland about this decision: that there will be a centralisation of all reporters and researchers in the Belfast area and at Broadcasting House in the centre of Belfast.

What about when events happen 40, 50 or 80 miles beyond the confines of Broadcasting House? Remember, Northern Ireland is quite a small place, and as I have discovered—I may well discover again when I go back home—the Glenshane pass is a very impassable road whenever the weather is bad. That may well be a reason, or perhaps an excuse, for not sending a reporter over the Glenshane pass to locate a school, hospital or some other story when another one is more easily accessible five miles down the road.

[Mr Robin Walker (Worcester) (Con)]

The hon. Member is making a great speech. The issues he identifies with the Glenshane pass are exactly the same as those my constituents might face with the River Severn. Just as for him, the idea of a reporter based in Belfast being able to report the weather out near Londonderry is crazy, from the perspective of my constituents who spent the weekend carefully listening to radio bulletins about the level of the River Severn, where it would flood and which roads would be closed, the idea that we could lose that weekend programming to Birmingham is absurd.

[Mr Campbell]

I agree with the hon. Member in totality. I remember a number of occasions when people in Belfast who were unfamiliar with the local terrain would refer to the locality of—Hansard may have some difficulty with this— “Magherafelt”. That is not the pronunciation. Local people wondered, “Where on earth is this Ma-geer-a-felt?” It is actually Magherafelt—that is the local pronunciation. That happened because people were unfamiliar with the local terrain; local reporters would not make that mistake.

[Paul Girvan (South Antrim) (DUP)]

I thank my hon. Friend for giving way. In relation to Magherafelt, some people may well say that that mispronunciation does not affect them. One of the areas is that I am concerned about is cost-cutting. When there is a big sporting event that everyone wants to be at, BBC Northern Ireland, for example, will send a delegate, even though other BBC delegates are there, sitting two rows down from them in the press area, reporting back to the BBC on exactly the same thing. Why do they all have to be at such major events?

[Mr Campbell]

My hon. Friend severely tempts me to go down the road of criticising the BBC. On another occasion I will glad succumb to that but I will resist the temptation today, although I acknowledge his concern.

The BBC has made its announcement and indicated that it is now embarking on a consultation process. I hope that in her response, the Minister will be able to indicate that the Government intend to make representations to the BBC to ensure that the motion is reflected in the actions and decisions of the BBC. BBC decision making is often driven by what it describes as the cost-effectiveness of its output. Although I support a cost-effective decision-making process, that should not be at the cost of locally based reporting and knowledge driving the agenda so that the BBC more accurately reflects all aspects of geographic area it represents to its listeners and viewers.

I hope that will be the outcome of the consultation process, and that whatever it decides to do, it will have heard what has been said in this debate and outside, that it will listen to what local people are demanding and that it will say, “We have decided to review this.” Hopefully, the BBC will overturn the decision and ensure that the local radio station is there to reflect the needs, concerns and wishes of local people in the geographic area represented by that radio station.

BBC Accountability and Transparency

Gregory Campbell Excerpts

Tuesday 15th March 2022 Westminster Hall

[Sir Gary Streeter (in the Chair)]

Gregory Campbell will move the motion and then the Minister will respond. There will not be an opportunity for the Member in charge to wind up the debate, as is the convention for 30-minute debates, so the Minister will have the final word.

[Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered BBC accountability and transparency to Government and licence fee payers.

The BBC traditionally was a world-leading news and current affairs broadcaster—paid for, of course, by the licence fee. When I have raised issues such as the one that I will raise today, the Government have said that it is for the BBC to deal with how it allocates and spends our licence fee moneys. I understand and accept that. The problem is that when I and others raise very important issues such as the lack of transparency and the lack of accountability and I and others go to places such as our regional BBC, we do not get answers. Then we come to BBC London and we do not get answers. Then we go to the National Audit Office and we do not get answers. Then we go to Ofcom and we do not get answers. The buck has to stop somewhere, and eventually the buck stops with the Government, Parliament and all of us who, on the public’s behalf, have to try to hold the BBC to account.

A few years ago, as the Minister and others will remember, we had the term “on-screen talent”, which sometimes is a misnomer. There was an issue about the on-screen talent having huge salaries about which no one knew anything. I and others campaigned long and hard to get those salaries brought into the public domain. We all remember programmes in which publicly paid broadcasters were asking us as MPs how we allocated our overheads and how we spent our salaries, how we divvied up our salaries. On rare occasions, Ministers would say, “Just hang on a minute, Mr Dimbleby. How do you spend your money, given that you get it from the licence fee?” Unfortunately, very few people did that, although some of us did. The BBC is very good at asking questions, but it is not very good at answering them. That eventually worked its way through and the BBC now has a banding process whereby it announces the salaries of on-screen talent in certain bands, which is some progress but not sufficient.

Then, on the topic of accountability, we moved on to the issue of outside interests. That resulted in the BBC putting an external events register on their website 18 months ago. I quote:

“As announced in October 2020, the BBC will publish a quarterly summary of the paid-for external events undertaken by on-air staff in journalism and senior leaders, in order to promote the highest standards of impartiality.”

That sounds very good.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on having secured this debate. He has mentioned two issues in relation to wages and others, but he also referred to impartiality. Does my hon. Friend agree that people are now aware that the political agenda of the BBC is premium, and while we have heard about the revamp of attitude, we have seen little fruit? The BBC’s coverage of the Democratic Unionist party—my party and that of my hon. Friend—before the election has been pointed and, indeed, pointedly detrimental. Does he agree that this is an indication that the culture in the BBC remains the same—biased, bitter carping by too many producers?

[Mr Campbell]

Indeed. On many occasions, a stark contrast can be seen between the interruptions, constant bickering and trying to misinterpret what is being said by certain of us, and the kid gloves used with others.

For that external events register, the BBC initially put out two columns: if a presenter was undertaking external tasks, they were either paid under £5,000 or over £5,000. That is not really much of a guide, because we do not know whether that person got £25 for speaking at an event or £4,995. The BBC then relented under some pressure, and there are now four categories: under £1,000, between £1,000 and £5,000, between £5,000 and £10,000, and over £10,000. That is an improvement, but unfortunately the BBC has to be dragged into making these simple changes, almost like bringing it from the latter part of the previous century into the 21st century. A simpler approach would be for the BBC to say at the end of the year how much every presenter who undertakes external appointments earned in total—did they earn £565, £10,400, or much more? That would be a much simpler approach, because there are hundreds of these references in the BBC’s register.

I will now move to an issue that is even more significant than external events: the commissioning of programmes for the BBC. In Northern Ireland and across the UK, we have a flourishing independent media sector. It is right and proper that we help to promote the people—young people in particular, but others as well—who establish small independent companies and want to get products from those companies on to either commercial radio and television, or BBC radio and television, because that is where the next generation of media producers, backroom people and camera people will all eventually come from. However, that small independent sector comes up against a huge brick wall, because in some regions of the BBC, there are BBC personnel who have “independent” companies of their own. They apply for commissioning contracts and, remarkably, are very successful in getting them.

That is very good if there is a level playing field—if independents can apply for those contracts, and people who work for the BBC can also apply for them. The problem is that the level playing field does not remain level. There are a small number of BBC personnel who have their own companies and, when they get contracts and a programme emerges on the BBC, can then use their own programme to advertise their privately commissioned programme that is on that evening. We have all repeatedly heard things like, “You may want to tune in at 10.35 tonight, when there is a programme on”, and then the next day when the BBC presenter is on, someone gets in touch and says, “I really enjoyed your television programme last night.” Yes, a programme paid for by us, the licence fee payers, and advertised freely on the BBC to the disadvantage of independent media companies that merely want to operate on a level playing field.

The issue has not been resolved. After holding numerous meetings with the BBC, the NAO and Ofcom, I was told that an additional safeguard would be brought in to protect and safeguard against any abuse of the system. That happened three years ago, in 2019. If there was a commissioning process that was open to all and sundry to apply for, and an internal BBC person with their own company applied for it and was successful in getting through the various stages, there would be a further stage of approval before the awarding of the contract and that person received the commission.

That further stage is an internal stage. The regional head of the BBC looks at the application—from a person that he or she knows, because that person is in his or her employ, and has received numerous commissions in the past. They have to rubber-stamp the application.

We are led to believe that that is a further safeguard. I do not think so. It is not independent; it is not transparent; and it certainly does not stand up to scrutiny. It has been in place for three years. Obviously, we have had the pandemic for two of those years, so we are unaware of the success or otherwise of that safeguard. I have watched closely and have seen the same small number of internal BBC employees receive a similar number of successful contracts since the safeguard was in place, so the BBC needs to answer the questions.

I hope the Minister can raise these important matters with the BBC. As we all know, there is an ongoing issue. The Secretary of State has made it clear that the BBC will have questions to answer and that, as we go into the future, there is a severe question mark over the licence fee—we understand that—but people are angry and annoyed that they pay for a service that they either do not receive, do not want or cannot opt out of. If they watch or listen to any live BBC broadcast, they are automatically liable to pay the BBC licence fee.

[Scott Benton (Blackpool South) (Con)]

The hon. Gentleman is giving a brilliant speech. I agree wholeheartedly with his points on accountability and transparency. He is alluding to the issue of value for money from the BBC. Many of my constituents have long felt that the BBC does not offer value for money. In a deprived constituency such as mine, they question the licence fee and whether they should pay what is essentially a regressive tax. Does the hon. Gentleman agree?

[Mr Campbell]

I do indeed. There is a rising tide of resentment, particularly when the public see matters on the BBC that seem to be quite partisan, whether locally, nationally or internationally. We can look back through the pandemic; we can look at the middle east; we can look at a whole series of incidents.

I remember the infamous time with the BBC’s North American correspondent when President Trump was first elected. At the very first press conference in the White House, the incoming President, for all his faults, said to the North American correspondent, “Who are you with?” He said, “The BBC,” and the President said, “Another winner.” That North American correspondent never forgot that put-down. Every time I saw him on at the White House, there would be a disparaging reference to the Trump Administration. Unsurprisingly, I have seen very little by way of disparaging references to the current incumbent of the White House—comparatively few, if any. I agree with the comments of the hon. Member for Blackpool South (Scott Benton). The tension and annoyance of the general public rises when they see events and incidents like that on the BBC.

I ask the Minister to raise these matters with the BBC, because we are talking about public money. There is a system in place that some of us have tried to work within. We know that the BBC is accountable for that money. We have tried regionally; we have tried nationally; we have gone to Ofcom; we have gone to the NAO—but the rationale is slow and intractable, and the BBC is slow to get to the point it should have come to automatically. It should not have had to be dragged to this point—it should have embraced it—but there is a reluctance at the heart of those in the BBC to adopt these structures.

I ask the Minister to enter into his response to the debate with an open mind and an open heart and to endeavour to take these matters up when there are discussions with the BBC, in order that the public, and all of us who occasionally or frequently watch the BBC, can rest more assured that the BBC is accountable to us who pay their very wages.

--- Later in debate ---

[Nigel Huddleston]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his comments. I know that he raised that issue with my colleagues at DCMS, including the Secretary of State. He raises important points. Addressing complaints is an important part of the responsiveness that the BBC can show, and the respect it can show to the public, as well as to Parliament. I will make sure that his point is reiterated—I know he has raised it before.

As the Secretary of State has said, the BBC is a global British brand. The Government want the BBC to continue to thrive in the decades to come, and to be a beacon for news and the arts around the world.

There are many things the Government support about the BBC. At this time, I want to draw particular attention to the work the BBC has been doing in relation to the conflict in Ukraine. The value of the BBC to people across the globe can be seen in the brave and admirable work of many BBC journalists who are risking their lives to bring us unbiased and accurate news from a live war zone in Ukraine.

However, the Government have also been clear that there are areas where we want to see the BBC do better. That includes the BBC’s approach to openness and transparency, which is the matter for discussion today. The BBC’s royal charter, underpinned by a more detailed framework agreement, guarantees the BBC’s current model, as an independent, publicly owned, public service broadcaster.

My hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool South raised the issue of value for money. On 17 January, the Secretary of State announced in Parliament that the licence fee would be frozen for the next two years and would rise in line with inflation for the following four years. This settlement aims to support households at a time when they need that support the most and sends an important message about keeping costs down and giving the BBC what it needs to deliver to fulfill its remit. The BBC will continue to receive around £3.7 billion in annual public funding, allowing it to deliver its mission and public purposes and to continue doing what it does best. We recognise the important point about money that the hon. Gentleman raised.

The charter also requires the BBC to act in the public interest; to observe high standards of openness; and to seek to maximise transparency and accountability. The public has a right to expect the BBC, as a public service broadcaster, to be open and transparent. The Government believe that this focus on transparency and accountability is a key obligation for the BBC and essential to maintaining public trust. That is why, for example, the Government now require the BBC to publish salary details of all BBC staff paid over £150,000, which was done for the first time in the BBC’s annual report back in 2016-17. The public deserve to know how their licence fee is being spent.

The hon. Member for East Londonderry mentioned the issue of the external events register. In 2020, the BBC announced it would publish a quarterly summary of the paid-for external events undertaken by on-air staff in journalism and by senior leaders in order to promote the high standards of impartiality. The first quarter to be published covered January to March 2020-21. The Government welcome the publication of this information and it is an important example of how the BBC can increase its openness and transparency.

The hon. Gentleman mentioned that perhaps he can chalk this up as a success. It looks as if the BBC has already moved to be even more open in the characterisation. I hope that is a step in the right direction and shows that the BBC is listening and has heard the points raised by him and others and will take action. I understand his frustration at having to labour those points, but I think this shows that movement in the right direction can be made.

As we know, unfortunately, the BBC has fallen short in the past in a number of ways. Lord Dyson’s report last year into the “Panorama” interview with Princess Diana shed light on the serious consequences incurred when the BBC does not meet the high standards of integrity and transparency which we expect from a public service broadcaster. Lord Dyson found that the BBC’s broadcast coverage was not open in regard to what the BBC knew about its own activities or transparent enough in response to questions from the press.

The BBC has clearly made progress since the 1990s, when the interview took place. The subsequent review by Sir Nicholas Serota into the BBC’s editorial process, governance and culture found that the BBC was much more open and accountable than it was 25 years ago, but that more could still be done. The Serota review also uncovered a persisting culture of defensiveness at the BBC, especially around admitting mistakes. The review also noted that, as a publicly-funded organisation in a society that is increasingly open, the BBC must further identify opportunities to enhance transparency.

This view is also held by Ofcom, the independent regulator of the BBC. Ofcom has consistently called for the BBC to be more transparent in how it explains its decisions to the public, engages with industry on proposed changes to its services, and in its reporting. Ofcom’s most recent annual report on the BBC’s performance noted that it has seen some improvements in recent years, but more needs to be done. We support Ofcom’s view that it is critical that the BBC holds itself accountable by clearly setting out how it will implement its strategies, measure their success and report on their effectiveness.

The Government have therefore welcomed the BBC’s acceptance of the Serota review’s findings and recommendations in full and the BBC’s publication of its 10-point impartiality and editorial standards action plan. We see this as an essential step in driving culture change at the BBC.

We also welcome recent announcements that the BBC will be carrying out the first of its thematic editorial reviews under the plan of its coverage of taxation and UK public spending. This will be chaired by Sir Andrew Dilnot and Michael Blastland, and the Government look forward to publication of the review this summer.

[Mr Campbell]

I thank the Minister for the comprehensive nature of his response. In the concluding part of his response, will he detail the issue that I raised towards the end of my speech in relation to the commissioning of programmes, which is an important part of the debate?

[Nigel Huddleston]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for reiterating that point. I will come to it in a moment.

Looking further ahead, the Government will shortly begin the mid-term review of the BBC charter, which will consider the overall governance and regulation of the BBC. A key part of that review will be whether the BBC plans for reform have materially contributed to improving the organisation’s internal governance.

The hon. Gentleman mentioned the point about commissioning, and in that context he highlighted the incredibly successful Northern Ireland independent production sector, and the overall film and TV production sector in Northern Ireland, which I know; I have managed to visit it a couple of times. It is absolutely incredible—world class—both in front of and behind the camera, which is why so many productions are based there. It is a really important sector, and commissioning and the commissioning process is vital.

According to Ofcom’s annual report on the BBC for 2020-21, published in November last year, the BBC has confirmed it is on track to meet the charter requirements on commissioning—64% of television, 53% of radio and 59% of online opportunities were open to competition. Ofcom notes that progress towards the targets this year has not been as significant as in other years, and in the case of online the percentage of content that is contested decreased. For TV and radio programming, Ofcom understands that the smaller increase is due to the BBC putting some of its plans for competitive tendering on hold due to the impact of covid-19. I will ensure that my colleagues in the BBC hear the other comments that the hon. Gentleman raised earlier. I am sure that they will keep a close eye on the record in Hansard.

Richard Sharp, the chairman of the BBC, has said:

“Trust is the foundation of the BBC’s relationship with audiences and it is more important now than ever.”

I agree. It is for this reason that it is more necessary than ever to rebuild and maintain trust in the BBC among those who have lost it. The BBC has made promising steps towards greater transparency and accountability, but there is more to be done. The Government will continue to work closely with the BBC to ensure that it remains trusted and valued by audiences in the UK and across the world for many years to come.

Question put and agreed to.

Oral Answers to Questions

Gregory Campbell Excerpts

Thursday 6th January 2022 Commons Chamber

[Ms Dorries]

I reassure my hon. Friend that the entire issue of over-75s and decriminalisation remains very much under review and on my desk. The BBC has confirmed that no enforcement action has been taken. It recently began customer care visits to people aged over 75 who may need additional support in paying the TV licence. Those visits are to assist the over-75s to get appropriately licenced, with the fee paid. I expect the BBC to handle those visits with the utmost sensitivity. I reassure him that this issue is under review.

[Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)]

About six years ago, a previous Government entered into a two-way agreement with the BBC regarding the over-75s. The BBC’s part of the agreement was that it would continue to fund free licence fees for the over-75s. The Government’s part of the agreement was to agree to an increase in the licence fee and to some other aspects that advantaged the BBC. The BBC has broken its part of the agreement. What are the Government doing about our part?

[Ms Dorries]

As I said in my previous answer, this is something that I am continuing to review. I reiterate that the BBC has taken no action against anyone over 75 years of age—no one. This is something that I am watching very carefully. I cannot say much more at this stage, but I do have a close eye on it.

BBC: Dyson Report

Gregory Campbell Excerpts

Monday 24th May 2021 Commons Chamber

[Mr Whittingdale]

As my hon. Friend knows, the mid-term review was not actually due to take place until next year; it was written into the charter that it should be in 2022. We would almost certainly have started thinking about the issues to be considered and the questions needing to be addressed in any case, but this issue has made that more urgent, and the Secretary of State has it made clear that we are starting work on it now. Precisely how the mid-term review will operate and whether we will invite external submissions is not yet determined, but I will certainly try to ensure that my hon. Friend is the first to know when we have further announcements to make.

[Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP) [V]]

Some have sought to defend the BBC by saying that the disgraceful Martin Bashir incident was 25 years ago, and indeed it was. However, since 1995, we have had the Jimmy Savile cover-up; the disgraceful incident regarding the surveillance of the search of the Cliff Richard home; the political partisanship of Emily Maitlis on “Newsnight”; and recently—in the past week or so—we heard about a BBC Palestinian expert on the BBC who, before she was employed by the BBC, tweeted that Israel is more Nazi than Hitler. The mid-term review surely offers the opportunity for radical, fundamental change at the BBC.

[Mr Whittingdale]

I can tell the hon. Gentleman that a lot of the incidents he mentioned took place before the new governance arrangements were in place, but we obviously need to consider whether there are lessons to be learned from those incidents for our mid-term review. If that journalist’s tweets regarding Israel and Palestine are shown to be genuine, it is my view that anybody who can express such opinions should not be employed by the BBC.

European Football Proposal

Gregory Campbell Excerpts

Finance (No. 2) Bill: (Freeports (Stamp Duty Land Tax)) (Ways and Means) & Ways and Means resolution
Monday 19th April 2021 Commons Chamber

[Oliver Dowden]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We have worked tirelessly to ensure that the game has continued behind closed doors, and I am happy to give the assurance that I will work tirelessly until we reach the end of the road map and we have every single seat taken in stadiums so that we can get football back on its feet. It is only at that point that we should be considering those wider questions of the governance of the game. It is a source of deep sadness to me that we are having this distraction rather than getting on with getting the game back.

[Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP) [V]]

The Northern Ireland women’s football team, with amateur players, qualified for the Euros for the first time ever. That demonstrates what football is about. Many people regard the announcement today as a tactical move against UEFA. Whatever it is, will the Secretary of State back up his rhetoric today, which I welcome, with action, along with the football authorities, to ensure that the views of billions of fans worldwide prevail over the views and tactics of the billionaire financiers?

[Oliver Dowden]

May I begin by sharing in the hon. Gentleman’s congratulations to the Northern Ireland women’s football team? That was a fantastic result and I was very cheered to see it.

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right that this is not confined to the UK. The premier league and English football are loved globally, and we can see the reactions in France, Spain and Italy: it is not just here in the United Kingdom that we feel dismayed at the proposals that have been put forward—that feeling is near-universal.

Free TV Licences: Over-75s

Gregory Campbell Excerpts

Tuesday 11th June 2019 Commons Chamber

[Jeremy Wright]

No, I cannot entirely agree with my hon. Friend on that. I think that the BBC presents huge benefits to our society and to the nation beyond our shores. It is right that the BBC receives substantial income—I should say in the BBC’s defence that it has important responsibilities to carry out with that income and we expect it to do so—but it is also right that we expect the BBC to use its imagination and work hard to find ways to supplement what it has now agreed to do in the interests of older people, about whom we are all concerned.

[Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)]

I speak in support of the renewed campaign to retain the free TV licence for over-75s. Four years ago, the BBC agreed to the new regime, as the Secretary of State said. The demographics of the over-75s have not changed much since that time and nor has the take-up of pension credit. Four years ago, did the BBC raise either of those issues, which it now complains about to the rest of us?

[Jeremy Wright]

Of course, I was not present for those negotiations, so I cannot tell the hon. Gentleman that. What I can say is that they were not conducted at gunpoint. They were conducted by two sides who ought to have understood the consequences of the obligations that they were taking on. I realise that this is a difficult concept for Opposition Front Benchers, but it is important that we all, when we take on a financial commitment, know how to pay for it.

TV Licences for Over-75s

Gregory Campbell Excerpts

Wednesday 8th May 2019 Commons Chamber

[Margot James]

I am grateful to the shadow Minister for setting the record straight in terms of who voted for what and when, but the point is that Parliament passed this measure into law through the Digital Economy Act 2017. Of course the Government recognise the importance of providing both this valuable service and opportunities for older people to engage, which is why we launched our loneliness strategy last year. The Under-Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport, my hon. Friend the Member for Eastleigh (Mims Davies), has done a fantastic job in promoting the various services that the Government are funding with new money to enable older people to get connected, whether that be online or through social and sporting events, in 140 hubs across the country. We do take our responsibilities to older people very seriously. We are trying to help combat the loneliness that, as Opposition Members say, is a scourge of the lives of too many older people.

[Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)]

There is one thing that has not transpired in the debate thus far. We fully support the motion, but it seems to have escaped the notice of some people that, at the time the Act was passed two and a half years ago, Lord Hall on behalf of the BBC agreed to the proposal and therein lies some of the problem.

[Margot James]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for reminding me that Lord Hall welcomed the licence fee settlement, which was so ably negotiated by my right hon. Friend the Member for Maldon (Mr Whittingdale). Indeed, Lord Hall said at the time:

“The Government’s decision here to put the cost of the over-75s on us has been more than matched by the deal coming back for the BBC.”

I draw the attention of hon. Members to that quote. The hon. Member for Rhondda does not need to rise as there are other people trying to intervene.

Oral Answers to Questions

Gregory Campbell Excerpts

Thursday 11th April 2019 Commons Chamber

[Margot James]

My hon. Friend makes a very good point indeed. She would be well advised to raise those issues with the Treasury. We are in discussions with the Treasury on those matters, but we are doing a great many other things to support grassroots music venues, including through agent of change proposals and scrapping form 696, all of which have had a beneficial effect, certainly in the London area.

[Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)]

Post our departure from the EU, will the Minister ensure that she takes every possible step to maximise our opportunities in the creative industries sector right across the United Kingdom and not just in the south-east?

[Margot James]

I assure the hon. Gentleman that we take on those responsibilities, and he will be pleased to hear that I spend more of my time focused on the creative industries outside London and the south-east. We have national skills programmes in the north-west and elsewhere in the United Kingdom, and I am sure that we shall support the creative industries in the Northern Ireland, which are doing such a fantastic job, equally.

BBC Commissioning

Gregory Campbell Excerpts

Tuesday 5th February 2019 Westminster Hall

[Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered independent accountability of the BBC commissioning process.

I am delighted to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Betts, and to have this Minister replying to the debate, as she has done on previous occasions. I am grateful for the opportunity to highlight the lack of transparency at the BBC. There are major concerns about BBC Northern Ireland’s use of public money. I am unaware of the situation in other regions, but if other regions operate on a similar basis to that which I will outline in the next few minutes, there is a problem on a national scale.

I will focus on transparency in Northern Ireland, because BBC NI has not done so. The BBC’s key aim is

“to inform, educate and entertain audiences with programmes and services of high quality, originality and value.”

Yes, there are many programmes in which the BBC’s mission is adhered to, but when it comes to the financing and contracting of those programmes, there is a lack of transparency that should not be the case. The programmes are made only as a result of the outdated licence fee, which our constituents are forced to pay if they receive television services. That is public money, but, after many protracted discussions, meetings and correspondence, the brick wall remains—although it can and will be broken down.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank my hon. Friend for raising this issue. It is one that he has been involved with for a long time, and today’s debate in Westminster Hall is his opportunity to highlight it. Does he agree that the growing number of people who refuse to pay for a TV licence, understanding that that means that they will not be able to watch any BBC programme, either live or on catch-up, indicates that although people are happy to pay £50 a month for Sky or Virgin services, they are not prepared to give the BBC £12 a month? Does he agree that that disenfranchisement is not to do with the cost of the licence, but to do with the nature of programming, with many people grossly unhappy with the BBC bias, which has become the norm but remains unacceptable? Does he further agree that independent regulation is only the first step needed if there is to be any salvation whatever for the BBC?

[Mr Campbell]

I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. The compulsory nature of the licence fee has been raised on previous occasions, and I am glad that he has raised it again today.

Troubling questions remain on the issue of independent accountability. Independent media companies in Northern Ireland have approached me. They are concerned that they do not get a fair deal because of the lack of transparency. I intend to go into that in a little detail, Mr Betts.

I first raised concerns about the BBC Northern Ireland commissioning process back in November 2016—two years and four months ago—when I asked a series of questions of the BBC. Some hon. Members will recall that I raised similar matters in the House in September 2017; I was forced down this route after BBC Northern Ireland kept stonewalling.

Initially, I raised the question of how contracts were awarded. I raised that with senior BBC management and with some who were BBC presenters and had benefited from contracts. Answers were not forthcoming. As a result of the lack of accountability and openness, I took the matter to the office of the BBC director-general, Lord Tony Hall, in April 2018, my questions still not having had satisfactory responses. My concern then focused on a single contract that I was aware of relating to a company called Third Street Studios. There are three points to ponder in relation to Third Street Studios. First, the contract was awarded to a company that did not exist at the time of broadcast, the contract having already been paid. Secondly, this particular company has repeatedly received contracts worth hundreds of thousands of pounds. Thirdly—this is the irony—the company had no office and the postal address on its website took anyone who investigated to a taxi rank in Belfast city centre. The lack of independent accountability for these significant sums is staggering.

By August 2018, I still was not getting answers. I then went to the National Audit Office here in London to try to obtain satisfaction about taxpayers’ money, those who were, if I can put it like this, on the inside track in the BBC and how they did not account for their expenditure. I met the National Audit Office, and the meeting was good and constructive. The National Audit Office was then helpful in writing to me to confirm that although it does not normally investigate this type of contractual expenditure, an investigation would be opened up into a number of areas concerning the BBC Northern Ireland commissioning process. I want to concentrate on this for a few moments, just to show the significance of it. This is the first time, to my knowledge, that the National Audit Office of the United Kingdom has found grounds to investigate BBC Northern Ireland on a contract of this nature. “Unprecedented” would be an appropriate word to describe this.

Let us just remember the guidelines that the BBC operates under. I will quote them briefly. On “Editorial Integrity and Independence”, the statement is as follows:

“The BBC is independent of outside interests and arrangements that could undermine our editorial integrity. Our audiences should be confident that our decisions are not influenced by outside interests, political or commercial pressures, or any personal interests.”

On “Fairness”, the BBC states:

“Our output will be based on fairness, openness, honesty and straight dealing.”

On “Transparency”, it states:

“We will be transparent about the nature and provenance of the content we offer online. Where appropriate, we will identify who has created it and will use labelling to help online users make informed decisions about the suitability of content for themselves and their children.”

Lastly, on “Accountability”, it states:

“We are accountable to our audiences and will deal fairly and openly with them. Their continuing trust in the BBC is a crucial part of our relationship with them. We will be open in acknowledging mistakes when they are made and encourage a culture of willingness to learn from them.”

[John Grogan (Keighley) (Lab)]

Given that last year I was the only Labour MP to join with most members of the Democratic Unionist party in defending press freedom when there was the chance of a state-appointed press regulator, will the hon. Gentleman recognise that investigations such as that into the renewable heat incentive by BBC Northern Ireland are in the long tradition of fearless investigative journalism by both the BBC and UTV that has served Northern Ireland well during the last 50 years, in both good times and bad?

[Mr Campbell]

Yes, I unequivocally agree with that. The only addendum I would make is that the BBC is not exempt from scrutiny itself—that is the point.

It is an appalling reflection on BBC Northern Ireland’s management that a Member of Parliament who has taken a keen interest in these issues both in Parliament and outside has had to take the steps that I have over many months to escalate concerns to the National Audit Office.

[Mr Edward Vaizey (Wantage) (Con)]

May I support the case that the hon. Gentleman is making? When we did the BBC charter review, we were keen to get independent regulation of the BBC through Ofcom and to open up the BBC’s books to the National Audit Office, which it resisted. The BBC can be opaque and not transparent. That said, does the hon. Gentleman agree with me that it does not advance the argument for accountability and transparency simply to accuse the BBC, as some hon. Members have done, of bias? I think it tries very hard to present a balanced picture.

[Mr Campbell]

I accept the right hon. Gentleman’s point, but I invite him to look at more of the BBC’s content. Perhaps then he will reflect on his view. I am sure we will have another debate on that in the coming months.

I will now move on to the specific example I have raised. Third Street Studios has a director who is also a prominent BBC Northern Ireland presenter: Mr Stephen Nolan. The BBC claims that Mr Nolan’s company is an average, independent production company. That is patent nonsense. Mr Nolan quite regularly advertises the television programmes made by his company on his BBC radio show, which is part of his £450,000-a-year job, funded by the licence fee. This is a clear and unfair advantage over other independent production companies, which cannot promote their programmes in the same way.

If an independent production company gets a contract from the BBC, it has to go away, make the programme, supply it to the BBC and hope that the quality of the production will shine through. However, in this instance, as I have outlined, someone who works in the BBC—who has the inside track and knows how it works—can get a contract and then advertise on the BBC for his so-called independent production company, which won the contract from the BBC. That is clearly an unfair advantage.

Since the BBC is effectively funded through the public purse, it must adhere to the same standards as are demanded in other areas of public life. The contract was from 2014—five years ago. I have been asking questions about it for two years, and yet I still do not know basic details about the contract, which we all pay for through the licence fee. The public have paid for it, and therefore they have the right to know the details of how it was awarded and how the expenditure was accounted for. At the moment, we do not know the answers. Why should a contract that was awarded five years ago remain secret? Why not publish all documentation relevant to that series, after five years have passed, unless there is something to hide? That is why the National Audit Office is digging—digging deep, I hope—into the BBC.

The irony is that BBC Northern Ireland programmes continue to investigate the use of public money by Government, as outlined by the hon. Member for Keighley (John Grogan), and they are quite right to do that. No one should misunderstand the nature of this debate. The BBC and others are right to conduct such investigations, but we are equally right to hold it to the standard that it holds others to. The BBC is not, and must not be, exempt.

As many will know, the concerns that I and others have do not just stretch to the process of commissioning programmes. I have long campaigned for maximum transparency in relation to pay. We now know that there exists a gender pay gap, but it took a decade for the BBC to come to the point of publishing the salaries of presenters who earned more than £150,000 per year. Does the BBC hope that if it strings people along on the issue of commissioning contracts, the pay issue might disappear? Does the BBC think that just as it dragged its feet on transparency around salaries, it can drag its feet on this? The BBC must think again. It seems to feel as though it can pose questions, but it does not have to answer them; apparently, answering questions is only for the little people. The BBC must—and will—answer these questions.

The National Audit Office sent me a letter dated 30 January 2019. Coincidentally, that was the day after this debate was announced; I will leave people to draw their own conclusions. In that letter, the NAO said,

“the BBC centrally decided to carry out a targeted review of the commissioning process in BBC Northern Ireland.”

The NAO added:

“We are currently reviewing information collected as part of this review and are following up with some specific questions.”

The National Audit Office has confirmed that it will provide answers by the end of February to the questions that were originally asked of the BBC in 2016. In trying to protect and defend those involved, the BBC has further undermined trust in the organisation.

I look forward to the completion of the National Audit Office investigation. I understand that the Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport will visit Northern Ireland next month, as he said in his answer to my parliamentary question last week, and I hope he will take the opportunity to get questions answered by the BBC in Northern Ireland. In the past, the Minister has been responsive and helpful in answering questions. I hope that she will deal with this issue in any discussions that she may have with the BBC in the run-up to the mid-term charter review, which will take place in the next two years.

I hope that my worst fears are not confirmed, but the information I have gleaned to date does not fill me with hope, and neither do all the stonewalling, all the delaying or all the attempts to avoid answering questions. I hope the National Audit Office will get to the truth of these matters. If there are serious questions to answer about the lack of transparency not just in BBC Northern Ireland, but across the nation as a whole, it will be a national scandal and there will have to be serious consequences for the entire BBC hierarchy.