Oral Answers to Questions

Georgia Gould Excerpts

Thursday 25th July 2024 Commons Chamber

[Ben Coleman (Chelsea and Fulham) (Lab)]

22. What recent estimate he has made of the cost to the public purse of fraud in public procurement during the covid-19 pandemic.

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Georgia Gould)]

As the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster set out, the previous Government allowed waste and fraud to spiral out of control. Latest estimates show £10.5 billion of estimated fraud and error in the covid-19 schemes. That waste of taxpayers’ money is unacceptable and the new Government are taking action. This week the Chancellor announced that she will appoint a new covid counter-fraud commissioner. It will use every means possible to recoup public money.

[Luke Murphy]

I welcome the Minister and the entire ministerial team to their places. Public sector fraud underwent a massive spike during the pandemic, as personal relationships trumped proper due diligence. With billions of pounds still in the hands of fraudsters, it is imperative that the new Government work quickly to recover what was lost. I therefore also welcome the Chancellor of the Exchequer’s new covid fraud commissioner. What steps will the Government and her Department take to ensure that the money is recovered as quickly as possible, and indeed that something like this never happens again?

[Georgia Gould]

My hon. Friend is right that the previous Government oversaw VIP lanes that led to millions in waste, and we are still unpicking the impact of that lack of oversight. I have met the Public Sector Fraud Authority to set out my commitment to strengthening the counter-fraud approach across Government. As I have said, the counter-fraud commissioner has been introduced to support their work, and will use every means possible to recoup public money, reporting directly to the Chancellor.

[Ben Coleman]

In my corner of London, concerns have been expressed about a particular supplier being awarded contracts worth more than £25 million for useless PPE, after being put forward by a former Minister in the VIP lane. Could the Minister say more about how the Public Sector Fraud Authority and the Treasury will ensure that every penny that can be returned is returned to the public purse?

[Georgia Gould]

I am happy to meet my hon. Friend to hear more about the individual example from their constituency. As I have said, I have met the Public Sector Fraud Authority. We have set out that tackling fraud is an absolute priority for the Cabinet Office, and we will use every lever available to us to get back what is owed to the British people. The Public Sector Fraud Authority is already working closely with the Treasury on the role of the counter-fraud commissioner, and will continue to do so.

[Ian Lavery (Blyth and Ashington) (Lab)]

4. How many people affected by contaminated blood products have received compensation.

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[Sonia Kumar (Dudley) (Lab)]

19. What steps he is taking with Cabinet colleagues to help ensure value for money in public procurement.

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Georgia Gould)]

The Government believe that public procurement is a key lever for enabling the delivery of our missions. Effective procurement will allow the public sector to deliver better services for citizens. Our ambitious programme to make work pay will drive genuine value for money in procurement, and support organisations to create local jobs, skills and wealth. The new digital centre of Government will ensure procurement drives uptake of new digital technologies to improve our public services.

[Joe Powell]

I thank the Minister for her answer. As she said, value for money is fundamental, but procurement can also be used strategically to ensure that growth opportunities and social benefits are felt across the country. What steps will the Government take to up the ambition in the implementation of the Procurement Act 2023, so we have the data, skills and digital tools to drive a more mission-driven and economically transformative commissioning and purchasing across the Government?

[Georgia Gould]

As my hon. Friend says, public procurement is a key lever for delivering improved standards in business and in achieving social value. It is one of the levers in making sure we are growing our economy and supporting good jobs, something I saw in local government where Labour councils made huge strides in delivering social value through procurement. The Government’s plan to make work pay sets out that ambitious programme to value organisations that create local jobs, skills and wealth, and treat their workers well and equally.

[Kirith Entwistle]

I join colleagues in welcoming the ministerial team to the Front Bench. The Government have made it clear that tackling waste in public procurement is a priority and that crony relationships will no longer define the awarding of contracts. Can the Minister reassure me and my constituents in Bolton North East that contracts will be awarded based on what is most cost-effective and on what is better for the public purse?

[Georgia Gould]

The Government have launched a fraud commissioner, whose role will be to look at what went wrong and make sure that we are learning those lessons. The VIP lanes and the issues that we saw previously cannot happen again. The new digital centre of Government, working closely with the Secretary of State for Science, Innovation and Technology and the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, will ensure that procurement and market engagement are used as effective tools to drive the uptake of new digital technologies and protect us against the kinds of thing that we saw previously.

[Sonia Kumar]

As an NHS physiotherapist who worked during the covid-19 pandemic, I had the misfortune of witnessing at first hand how crony contracts resulted in wasted resources. Although those contracts may have been intended to reinforce the NHS during the unprecedented crisis, they did a disservice both to our NHS professionals and to patients. Will the Minister outline what tangible steps the Government are taking to avoid such a waste of resources in future and reassure the constituency of Dudley and the wider nation that the Government will take public spending seriously?

[Georgia Gould]

I thank my hon. Friend for her service during covid, and I thank all the health and care staff who risked their lives to protect us. Billions were spent on personal protective equipment that was unusable, overpriced or under-delivered. This Government are determined to learn those lessons and safeguard every pound of taxpayers’ money. I have met the Public Sector Fraud Authority and have set out our commitment to driving down fraud across Government. We are determined to learn the lessons from the work of the covid commissioner, who will report to Parliament.

[Sarah Dyke (Glastonbury and Somerton) (LD)]

I offer a warm welcome to the ministerial team. Constituents across Glastonbury and Somerton tell me that quality matters to them as much as value for money. Does the Minister agree that we must ensure that public procurement considers environmental and social factors as well as value for money?

[Georgia Gould]

Value for money is critical to this Government. We want to make sure that every pound of taxpayers’ money is spent wisely. We are inheriting a perilous economic situation, and we need to invest in public services, but we also need to deliver social value, which includes workforce standards and environmental standards. That is how we deliver good growth.

[Sarah Coombes (West Bromwich) (Lab)]

15. What steps he is taking to help ensure high standards of propriety in public life.

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[Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD)]

17. What steps he is taking to protect whistleblowers in the civil service.

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Georgia Gould)]

The Cabinet Office provides a framework to support Departments and employees, which includes signposts on how to raise a concern, channels enabling that to be done safely, and practical support for whistleblowers. The Cabinet Office is working to capture whistleblowers’ experience and ways in which to improve it, and, as was mentioned in the King’s Speech, we will be introducing a duty of candour Bill which will improve transparency and accountability.

[Wera Hobhouse]

Good whistleblowing is good for government. Last year the National Audit Office published a report saying that the Government must do more to address governmental failures, and, even more worrying, that 50% of civil servants feel that it is not safe to challenge the way in which things are being done, and feel that their concerns are not being listened to or, indeed, that they will face negative consequences if they speak out. Will the Government establish a new office of whistleblowers to create new legal rights, and also to promote greater public awareness of whistleblowers’ rights?

[Georgia Gould]

As you say, whistleblowing is critical. We have had a discussion today about fraud and about the problems that emerge when we do not have protections in place. We are absolutely committed to supporting whistleblowers, and we are looking into the statistics that you mentioned and what is causing those problems. We will continue to do that, because it is very high on our agenda.

[Fred Thomas (Plymouth Moor View) (Lab)]

20. What recent progress his Department has made on strengthening national resilience.

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[Rachel Hopkins (Luton South and South Bedfordshire) (Lab)]

T2. Small businesses are the lifeblood of our high streets and communities, and they create local wealth and opportunities across Luton South and South Bedfordshire. They play a vital role in providing social value by distributing growth locally, meeting environmental targets and developing social wellbeing. Does the Minister agree that it is essential to put social value at the heart of the Government’s growth agenda?

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Georgia Gould)]

Growth is a central mission of the Government. We want to use all the levers available to us, including procurement, to support good growth, jobs and local communities.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Minister.