Carillion and Public Sector Outsourcing

Geoffrey Clifton-Brown Excerpts

Wednesday 24th January 2018 Commons Chamber

[Jon Trickett]

I could stand here and reel off a long list of outsourcing companies that have been guilty of fraud, tax avoidance, blacklisting, failure to pay contractors, and even, shockingly, billing the taxpayer for tagging people who had died. They have presided over, and have been vehemently committed to, a failed and failing ideological project. That is my charge today.

My opposite number, who I am pleased to see in his place—the Minister for the Cabinet Office and Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster—has personally shown lots of enthusiasm for handing out Government contracts—

[Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con)]

rose—

[Jon Trickett]

I am trying to make some progress. [Interruption.] Well, they will be glad that I am making progress, then.

In the Minister’s role at the Ministry of Justice, what did he do? He awarded a £25 million Government contract to G4S. But that company was under investigation for fraud against the taxpayer. He snuck out plans to privatise the collection of court fines, and he even proposed giving private companies the power to arrest our fellow citizens. His Department bailed out a private probation service with an additional £277 million over seven years, and he failed to deliver the promised £115 million that he said would be delivered by outsourcing two prisons.

We need to change direction. Let me briefly set out the case, because outsourcing of procurement has boomed under this Tory Government. It is now worth £242 billion. Nearly a third of public expenditure—of our taxes—is being put at risk by a Government who are blindly following a dogma.

To be clear, there never was a true market in outsourcing. It is an oligopoly. The course of action that the British Government set out on has led only to the creation of a handful of mega-corporations, almost too big to fail, and those corporations have penetrated nearly every aspect of the state, both central and local. This so-called market works well for a handful of companies making huge profits out of the taxpayer, but it is not working for anybody else.

We want the Government to see the facts as they are, not through the lens of a tired, stale, outdated, dogmatic view of the world. Jeremy Corbyn, our leader, commenting on the Carillion debacle—

[Jon Trickett]

Well, we still pay tribute to our leader, unlike some of the Government Members, who seem to be making up a point about it. Let us see how many of them—[Interruption.] My party leader said that we have now reached—

[Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown]

rose—

[Jon Trickett]

I am coming to an end. He said that we are now coming to a turning point, and he was right. He caught the mood of the country. The public are tired of outsourcing. They want democratically accountable, quality services, which are run effectively and efficiently in the interests of the public. Every poll we can look at shows the same thing: the people are completely disabused of this whole process. That is why the House of Commons must take up the task that the Government have failed to act on. Where else could we start but by referring the matter to our excellent Public Accounts Committee? That is what the motion recommends.

[Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Jon Trickett]

I will not—I am finishing. The Prime Minister and her Government have squandered taxpayers’ money on a failing dogma. They have run out of new ideas. They have proved unable to grasp the change that our country desperately needs. Even her own MPs agree. The right hon. Member for Mid Sussex (Sir Nicholas Soames) says:

“Where’s the bold and the brave?”

He is talking to the Prime Minister. He says, “it’s dull, dull, dull.” He is absolutely correct.

[Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. May I preface my remarks by saying what a pleasure it is to see you back in the Chair? The Opposition spokesman has referred to the “excellent” PAC. I am its deputy Chair, but he will not let me intervene. How can the debate be fair if he will not let me intervene?

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Lindsay Hoyle)]

The hon. Gentleman knows that, from chairmanships in many other areas, that is not a point of order. It is up to the hon. Member for Hemsworth (Jon Trickett) whether he wishes to give way, as we will later find out when other Members want to intervene.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Lidington]

PwC, as the special managers working with the official receiver, is looking at such cases to see whether it can offer arrangements whereby workers are no worse off than they were under the terms of their Carillion employment. The hon. Lady and I met yesterday to talk about the constituency concerns that she and other parliamentary colleagues have about the Wolverhampton headquarters. The alternative of a chaotic, unmanaged collapse and liquidation of Carillion would have been far more difficult for the workers concerned, because the liquidator in those circumstances would have had a statutory obligation to terminate all contracts and lay off all workers straight away, not to continue with the provision of public services. That would have been more costly not only for the individuals involved but, obviously, for the public purse.

I welcome the initiative taken last week by the Construction Industry Training Board to help the 1,400 apprentices employed by Carillion. Those apprenticeships were primarily in bricklaying, carpentry and joinery—skills that the country vitally needs to build homes and solve our national housing shortage. To date, the CITB has matched 400 of those apprentices with new employers, and it continues to assess the large number of industry offers it has received to find placements for the remaining Carillion apprentices.

Unfortunately, there will be some redundancies as a result of this company failure. That is why Jobcentre Plus mobilised its rapid response service, and it stands ready to support any employee, at any stage, who is affected by this announcement. I am aware, too, that a significant number of small and medium-sized businesses—either suppliers to or subcontractors of Carillion—will be affected by this collapse because Carillion owed them money. We are doing what we can to keep continuity on service contracts for those companies, and as I said earlier, we are having some success, particularly on the facilities management side.

In addition, we are looking to restart work on construction sites at the earliest safe moment. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, with the assistance of my the Under-Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, my hon. Friend the Member for Burton (Andrew Griffiths), who has responsibility for small business, has personally led efforts to do what we can to mitigate the risks to subcontractors and suppliers through a taskforce to monitor and advise on mitigating the impacts of Carillion’s liquidation on the sector through practical measures that will help SMEs and employees alike. My right hon. Friend has met the banks, and I join him in welcoming their undertakings to take special measures to help those affected, including overdraft extensions, payment holidays and fee waivers.

[Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown]

My right hon. Friend said in his letter to all colleagues that the Government was providing £1 billion-worth of funding to small and medium-sized enterprises, which is a useful start to keep some of them in business. Can he give any indication how that £1 billion is likely to be distributed?

[Mr Lidington]

The Under-Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, my hon. Friend the Member for Burton (Andrew Griffiths), may be able to say more when he responds to the debate, but that help will involve things such as credit facilities and loans to enable those companies to trade their way through this period of difficulty, particularly until there is greater certainty about what happens to the contracts on which they were engaged.

Oral Answers to Questions

Geoffrey Clifton-Brown Excerpts

Wednesday 20th December 2017 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I wish the hon. Gentleman a merry Christmas too, and a happy new year. In fact, the introduction of the Government’s proposed arrangements for free school meals under universal credit will lead to more children having access to them.

[Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con)]

May I wish you and everyone else a very happy Christmas, Mr Speaker?

Does not Michel Barnier’s claim that UK banks will lose their passporting rights post-Brexit—as opposed to the Bank of England’s statement that EU banks will be able to continue to operate here—vindicate my right hon. Friend’s principled and strong stance in negotiating reciprocity for EU and UK citizens?

[The Prime Minister]

We value the important role that the City of London plays, not just as a financial centre for Europe but as a financial centre for the world, and we want to retain and maintain that. Mr Barnier has made a number of comments recently about the opening negotiating position of the European Union. Both the Bank of England and the Treasury have today set out reassurance about ensuring that banks will be able to continue to operate and the City of London will continue to retain its global position. That will, however, be part of the negotiations on phase 2 of Brexit, and we are very clear about how important it is.

European Council

Geoffrey Clifton-Brown Excerpts

Monday 18th December 2017 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I have answered a question on that in previous statements that I have made in relation to the matter. We would expect, yes, that the European Court of Justice jurisdiction would start very similarly at the beginning of that implementation period, but as I said in response to one of my hon. Friends earlier, we are also clear that, if it is possible to negotiate, for example, the dispute resolution mechanism at an earlier stage and introduce it at an earlier stage, we would do precisely that.

[Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con)]

I congratulate the Prime Minister on having got the negotiations so far. Will she confirm that two of the announcements that she has made today—namely, that we will have a humanitarian presence in the Mediterranean and will continue to provide official development assistance to Africa—signal this country’s intention to work with our European allies as closely as possible once we have left the EU?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The area of migration is a good example of how we will be continuing to work with our friends and allies in the European Union, even after we have left. This issue affects us all. We can have a greater impact if we all work together and we will continue to do that.

Grenfell Tower

Geoffrey Clifton-Brown Excerpts

Thursday 22nd June 2017 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The building regulations set out the materials that are compliant and those that are non-compliant. As we go through this process of looking at the materials that have been used in various blocks, the question of whether they comply with building regulations will need to be looked at. That issue will need to be looked at in relation to the public inquiry.

Work on the guidance for the building regulations is ongoing and, I would expect, imminent—it is not just a question of producing something; various organisations need to be consulted. We need to ensure that when the fire services and police have done their investigation, any action that is necessary immediately as a result of the identification of the cause of the fire and the reason it took such hold—the issue of particular concern—should be taken, and will be taken.

[Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con)]

My right hon. Friend might be interested to know that I spent about three hours on Monday quietly walking around the Grenfell Tower area talking to people. I met traumatised victims who did not want to go into the centres to get help, so clearly people need to go out to them. They were angry that there was no clear housing policy on when and where they were going to be rehoused. Above all, I found an enormous amount of work being done by voluntary bodies—all sorts of bodies—but there was a clear lack of co-ordination on how those bodies were to move forward together. I strongly support what my right hon. Friend has said this morning about establishing a high-level Government taskforce that is able to go into a similar disaster. It should be available 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, to take over from the immediate Gold Command.

[The Prime Minister]

I thank my hon. Friend for the work he has done and the feedback he has provided to Ministers following his conversations with residents and victims on the ground. He is absolutely right: the point has been made to key workers that they need to go out to see people, to ensure that they know what is available to them, rather than just expecting them to come into the centre. I can assure him that we are looking actively at what further resilience we can put into the system by establishing the sort of taskforce that he and I have both spoken about. None of us wants to see a circumstance like this happen again, but we must ensure that there is full resilience, where disasters take place.

Oral Answers to Questions

Geoffrey Clifton-Brown Excerpts

Wednesday 22nd March 2017 Commons Chamber

[Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con)]

7. What steps he is taking to support Government Departments in delivering efficiency savings.

[The Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General (Ben Gummer)]

The Government are conducting an efficiency review to deliver savings and embed an efficiency culture into government. The Chief Secretary and I are leading the review together. Cabinet Office functions provide support, expertise and assurance, helping Departments to work together to cut waste and inefficiency.

[Geoffrey Clifton-Brown]

What progress is being made with the single departmental delivery plans across every Government Department? How will they align cost savings and Government policy initiatives more closely to deliver our manifesto?

[Ben Gummer]

The House, especially those interested in plans, will be pleased to know that this is the first time in the history of Government plans that we have done a second iteration of a plan—that is an exciting point. We are aligning the plans with the efficiency review, which means that, amazingly, we are going to plan government with money at the same time.

Points of Order

Geoffrey Clifton-Brown Excerpts

Monday 6th February 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. No sedentary shrieking from the hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) is required. I have the matter in hand. Two points, very simply: first of all, I thank the Prime Minister for what she has just said. Secondly, in so far as there is any uncertainty on this matter, let me dispel that uncertainty. I do so from my own knowledge and on the professional advice of the Clerk. We refer in this Chamber to Members by their constituencies or, if they have a title—for example, shadow Minister—by their title. To refer to them by another name is not the right thing to do. But the Prime Minister has said what she has said, and I thank her for that. We will leave this matter there.

[Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. With great respect to your statement at the beginning of our proceedings, on behalf of the Commission, that the dress and composition of the Clerks sitting in this House should change forthwith after the recess, may I urge you to reconsider this and to consider whether the whole House ought to have an opportunity to address the matter before it is enacted?

[Sir Gerald Howarth (Aldershot) (Con)]

rose—

Informal European Council

Geoffrey Clifton-Brown Excerpts

Monday 6th February 2017 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

Yes, Lady Nugee, by me. It is a matter of continuing concern and will remain a subject of discussion.

[Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con)]

Does my right hon. Friend think that, in her discussions with our 27 EU partners, we will be able to negotiate a reciprocal right for EU citizens living here and for British citizens living abroad sooner than the two-year limit set by article 50?

[The Prime Minister]

What I want to see is an agreement about the position of EU citizens and UK citizens at an early part of the negotiations, so that we can give them that reassurance up front and so that it will not be necessary to keep that agreement with the other 27 member states as part of the final deal. We need to have that up front at an early stage, so that we can give people the reassurance that they not only need but deserve.

European Council 2016

Geoffrey Clifton-Brown Excerpts

Monday 19th December 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

It is for all of us in the international arena to ensure that we provide the maximum support to the United Nations in being able to do what has been set out in the Security Council resolution. It is significant that the resolution has been accepted unanimously by the Security Council—it has not been vetoed by Russia, unlike previous resolutions that have been in place. The European Union, through its high representative Federica Mogherini, has already been involved in the international arena, as has, of course, my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary, in urging all parties to ensure that this humanitarian aid can get through and that people who wish to leave can be evacuated safely.

[Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con)]

My right hon. Friend is clearly right to report back from the Council that Iran is the other major actor in Syria. What steps will the Council be taking to have discussions with Iran so that the atrocities committed in Aleppo are not merely committed again in other towns and cities in Syria?

[The Prime Minister]

My understanding is that the European Union High Representative has already been having discussions with Iran, particularly about the humanitarian aid, which it is necessary to get through. But as I have just indicated in response to a previous question, it is absolutely right, as my hon. Friend says, that we have identified Iran as a backer of the Assad regime. We should continue to do so and we should continue to press Iran and Russia on the fact that we now have a Security Council resolution in relation to the evacuation and humanitarian aid for Aleppo. However, there is a lot more to be done if we are going to get a stable and peaceful Syria for its people in the future.

Oral Answers to Questions

Geoffrey Clifton-Brown Excerpts

Wednesday 11th May 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I completely disagree with the hon. Gentleman, and I hope that he will follow and listen to the debates that take place on this vital Bill. The fact is that if we want to make sure that we can keep our country safe, just as we have been able to see the communications data when two people talk to each other on a mobile phone or a fixed phone, the same has to be true if that conversation is taking place between people visiting an internet site. Is he happy for plots to be hatched, terrorism to be planned and murders to be arranged because people are using an internet site rather than a telephone? My answer to that would be no. We have got to modernise our capabilities to keep our country safe, and that is what this Bill is about.

[Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con)]

My right hon. Friend said in November 2015:

“Access to the internet shouldn’t be a luxury; it should be a right”.

The accompanying press release went on to say that every home and business could

“have access to fast broadband by the end of this Parliament.”

Will my right hon. Friend say today, unequivocally—no ifs or buts—that this commitment will be honoured?

[The Prime Minister]

I am afraid my hon. Friend is going to have to wait for the Queen’s Speech, in which we will be setting out the next steps of how we make sure that access to this absolutely vital highway is there for all our citizens.

Charities (Protection and Social Investment) Bill [Lords]

Geoffrey Clifton-Brown Excerpts

Thursday 3rd December 2015 Commons Chamber

[Matthew Hancock]

I am a great fan of transparency and a supporter of transparency across Government. We should consider carefully whether further transparency should be applied to charities, and how that is best delivered. I have no doubt that transparency begins at home for charities, and best practice is for them to be widely transparent about their operations. There is a question about whether we should do more in law, and balanced arguments in both directions. I hope we can consider that during the passage of the Bill.

[Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con)]

Do any of the new powers that the Bill gives the Charity Commission deal with charities that depart from their original charitable ambitions and disproportionately become political funding and campaigning organisations?

[Matthew Hancock]

We took action towards the end of the previous Parliament to ensure that the legal framework for charities and other organisations means that they do not cross over into direct partisan political work. A review is under way into how the Transparency of Lobbying, Non-Party Campaigning and Trade Union Administration Act 2014 has worked. There are questions about whether that needs to go further, but the best place to deal with such issues is in the review and during scrutiny of the Bill. I understand my hon. Friend’s concerns, and it is important that our review fully considers the impact of the 2014 Act.

We regard the Etherington package, including the fundraising preference service and a move to opt-in for further contact, as the minimum necessary to rebuild public trust. We propose that regulation of fundraising happens on a self-regulatory basis, but that self-regulation must implement the review’s recommendations in full. Some people have rightly asked what will happen if self-regulation fails. We want it to work, but we are also clear that practices must change. In Committee, we intend to bring forward amendments that will strengthen the Government’s reserve powers to intervene if the self-regulation recommended by Sir Stuart fails. Predatory fundraising targeted at vulnerable people is wrong. It has shaken public confidence in charities and we are determined to stamp it out.

Alongside tackling those challenges, the Bill aims to open up new opportunities.