Oral Answers to Questions

Gareth Thomas Excerpts

Tuesday 14th November 2023 Commons Chamber

[Jeremy Hunt]

That was a very nice try, but my hon. Friend will have to wait for a week.

[Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)]

Opt-out savings are a little like auto-enrolment in pensions. They help those on lower incomes to save for a crisis—for the proverbial rainy day. Given that more than 9 million people in this country are in work with no savings at all, will the Chancellor note the impressive results of a small trial of the opt-out savings system in Manchester, and encourage its expansion?

[Jeremy Hunt]

I would be happy to do that. The hon. Gentleman is right: if we are to grow faster as an economy, the other side of the coin is we that need to save more, and we should be encouraging everyone in all income groups to do so.

Mortgage and Rental Costs

Gareth Thomas Excerpts

Tuesday 27th June 2023 Commons Chamber

[The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (John Glen)]

I beg to move an amendment, to leave out from “House” to the end of the Question and add:

“welcomes the Government’s drive to halve inflation, grow the economy and reduce debt; particularly welcomes the Government’s new Mortgage Charter which has been agreed by 85 per cent of the residential mortgage market and will provide support to mortgage holders through new commitments and flexibilities to help borrowers who are anxious about rising interest rates; notes the extensive package of cost of living support to help families with rising prices, worth an average of £3,300 per household including direct cash payments to the eight million most vulnerable households; and further believes that Labour’s policies to manage the economy would be inflationary, lead to higher interest rates and put more pressure on mortgage holders and renters.”

After two decades of low inflation, the world has been confronted with a bout of fast-growing prices, and we are not alone. As a result of rising prices, central banks around the world, including in the United States, Japan, New Zealand and the European Union, have been raising interest rates in order to force down the rate of price rises. As all Members will be aware, last week, the Bank of England’s independent Monetary Policy Committee raised rates to 5%. Let me say at the outset that the Bank of England and its Monetary Policy Committee has the full support and confidence of this Government, and will continue to do so as it takes whatever action is necessary to return inflation to the 2% target in the medium term. As the Chancellor was clear when addressing this place yesterday, he will not take action that undermines the Bank of England’s monetary objectives.

[Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Minister will be aware that the latest data on mortgage rates specifically shows that, since the mini-Budget, they have increased faster here in the UK than in the US. That gap in mortgage rates means that someone here with a mortgage of £200,000 will be paying £1,000 a year more than in the US. What is the Minister’s explanation for that?

[John Glen]

I am here to account for what has happened in the UK. Obviously, there are differences—[Interruption.] If I may answer. There are differences across the EU and the US. What I am telling the House, which is quite transparently clear, is that inflationary pressures are affecting all economies at the moment, and it is my responsibility to account for what we are doing as a Government.

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[Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)]

The rise in interest rates last week to a 15-year high will be profoundly worrying for many of my constituents, particularly the many homeowners with a mortgage, but also those privately renting who are worried that their landlord might now put up their rents at a time when it is very difficult to find a genuinely affordable home to rent in my constituency. It is estimated that there are 8,900 households in my constituency facing an average increase in their annual mortgage payments of £5,400. In the neighbouring Conservative-held seats of Harrow East some 7,800 households face an estimated annual mortgage payment increase of £6,200 and in Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner 9,500 households face an average annual increase in mortgage payments of some £7,000.

Harrow has one of the highest rates of home ownership and owner occupation in London. Families move out to Harrow because family homes have traditionally been more affordable than in inner London, and we have excellent schools and very good transport links. The Tory party’s mortgage bombshell threatens the dreams of too many Harrow families—dreams of owning and investing in their own homes, of being able to always afford the rent for the home they live in, of being able to provide a stable and secure place to bring up their children and to look after older family members and still to be able to afford a good quality of life with good holidays and trips out. Those ambitions are much tougher now for even more families in my constituency because of the Conservative mortgage bombshell. In short, close to 18,000 households in the London Borough of Harrow face an average increase in mortgage payments of between £450 and £580 a month.

Those figures are devastating for family finances. Ever more mortgage deals have been withdrawn by the banks. Moneyfacts data suggests that the typical rate on a two-year fixed rate loan have increased to almost 6%, double the rate of a year ago, and the independent Resolution Foundation estimates that by 2026 some 6.5 million households across the country will have been affected by the post mini-Budget rise in mortgage rates. It is not just homeowners who are going to be hardest hit: charities and property experts are understandably warning that the rapid rise in borrowing costs is not just having an impact on owner-occupiers but is contributing to record rent increases.

I am fortunate in Harrow to have a community that is determined to do what it can to help those in real need. Harrow food bank, London’s community kitchen, My Yard Harrow and Soul Kitchen Harrow provide an impressive and dedicated offer to families in dire need. They should not have to do that, but energy bills and food prices are already high, and if mortgage costs continue to feed through into rent increases, the pressure on lower-income families will be even more profound and disturbing.

Conservative Members like to claim that what is happening here is part of a global crisis or is just down to the Bank of England’s incompetence. There are of course global factors in play and it is also true that the Bank of England has questions to answer, but the disastrous mini-Budget last year and 13 years of economic failure have left our economy far weaker than it should have been, and the mortgage crisis is clearly worse in the UK than in other European countries. As my right hon. Friend the shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer said, mortgage rates in Germany, France, Ireland and the Netherlands are typically lower than here.

I strongly support the plans set out by my right hon. Friend. She has forced the Chancellor to take some action, but it does not go far enough to help those renting and those facing fast-rising mortgage costs. Mandatory action is required to support mortgage holders. It should not be up to the banks and those offering mortgages to decide whether they want to do the right thing; they should be forced to comply and to help, and we must certainly end no-fault evictions straight away.

The British people deserve better than they are getting from the Conservative party. Homeowners in Harrow should not be suffering the ever-increasing burden of higher mortgage costs. Ministers could do more to help. They should not be leaving 1 million people unprotected; they should back Labour’s plan today and then they should call a general election.

Oral Answers to Questions

Gareth Thomas Excerpts

Tuesday 9th May 2023 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Griffith]

My hon. Friend does great service as chair of the all-party group on personal banking and fairer financial services, so he knows of what he speaks. Today, the Government published a call for proposals on the metrics that regulators should publish to support scrutiny of their work; as every business leader knows, what gets measured gets managed. That responds to the significant interest shown by industry and Parliament in ensuring that appropriate and transparent public measures are in place to support scrutiny of the regulators’ performance. The Government are clear that with great power must come greater accountability.

[Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)]

One measure that would improve the regulatory framework for mutuals in the financial services sector, such as Royal London or Liverpool Victoria, would be the introduction of permanent mutual shares. Given that such a reform would allow a new safe route to access the capital that such financial mutuals need to expand—and without having to demutualise—will the Minister explain why the Treasury is still dragging its feet on the introduction of such a significant reform?

[Andrew Griffith]

The hon. Gentleman and I have talked a number of times about this. I do not think it is fair to say that the Treasury is dragging its feet. We have supported reform of the mutuals sector. We welcome a diversity of provision, which involves a greater expansion of and more commercial freedom for the mutuals sector. With the Law Commission, we are looking to take its work forward to see whether we can help, and I am always happy to sit down with him, or with any representatives from the sector, as part of my widespread programme of engagement.

Co-operatives, Mutuals and Friendly Societies Bill (First sitting)

Gareth Thomas Excerpts

Committee stage
Wednesday 30th November 2022 Public Bill Committees

[Sir Mark Hendrick]

I thank the hon. Member for his intervention. A lot depends on how it is framed at the start when the mutual or co-operative decides to register. Remember that this is an opt-in; therefore, any conditions upon the dissolution of the company will depend very much on its registration and constitution. Those would allow for this, if the organisation were so set up. I am sure that the Minister will comment on that as well.

Returning to the previous intervention, I hope the Minister will give some assurances, because there are obviously none in the Bill. I hope that moving in the direction of the Law Commission setting up a review of the sector and of the two pieces of legislation he wrote to me about that need review will bring the rules and legislation on co-operatives, mutuals, associations and friendly societies up to date with what is seen as best practice across Europe. Italy, France, Spain and Germany are far more advanced in how they help the sector, in terms of both taxation and the way in which organisations are viewed and are able to expand.

[Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)]

My hon. Friend has done an impressive job of getting his Bill to this stage. He will know that one problem with increasing access to capital for mutuals has been the roadblock of His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs. When the Minister reflects on the question raised by the hon. Member for Gloucester and on the contribution of my hon. Friend, will he clarify whether he has instructed HMRC to co-operate fully with the Law Commission’s work? If it does not, we will still have a roadblock in terms of increasing access to capital for mutuals.

[Sir Mark Hendrick]

I concur totally with my hon. Friend.

Let me close by thanking you, Mr Mundell, and by thanking my colleagues for their contributions and for being present to support the Bill. I also thank everyone who has worked so hard to make it a success, including Peter Hunt and Mutuo, the Co-operative party, the co-operative sector, and the Minister and his Treasury officials. Only by working in a modern and supportive business environment will co-operatives, mutuals and friendly societies be able to make a full contribution to the prosperity of our country by serving the interests of customers, and, indeed, citizens.

[Richard Graham]

I should mention that I once worked for a mutual group and with co-ops, mutuals and friendly societies, Mr Mundell. That is, if you like, a declaration of historic interest.

Today’s Bill is indicative of the huge support for the sector from the hon. Member for Preston. He highlights the fact that co-ops, mutuals and friendly societies can still, and do, play a key role in modern finance. I congratulate him and successive Treasury Ministers on their partnership in bringing the Bill forward. In fact, everyone here is so supportive of the sector that we probably all qualify for the support of the Co-operative party—a recruitment opportunity that I hope it is alert to.

[Gareth Thomas]

Come over and join us.

[Richard Graham]

Thank you.

On the substance of today’s amendments, will the Minister clarify the point I raised in my earlier intervention, about whether the constitutions of the different categories of existing mutuals allow for the distribution of any remaining capital to members where that mutual—and, by application, its members—has decided for whatever reason to wind up?

Will the Minister also clarify that mutuals can use some element of capital, if they wish, for the purposes of merging to create more scalability? As we know, the challenge for mutuals is to raise capital—that has been part of the weaknesses of one or two of the co-ops over the past decade—and, should they no longer be able to go forward, it is important that members do not necessarily lose everything they have put in.

[Gareth Thomas]

Is there not a risk that what the hon. Member is advocating would actually drive a coach and horses through the purpose of the Bill, which is to stop demutualisation and the distribution of assets to members? Any demutualisation is usually driven by the directors, who will benefit enormously from it. What the hon. Member appears to be suggesting risks creating a loophole that actually protects members in terms of demutualisation going forward. Has he not considered that possibility?

[Richard Graham]

Sure, but what I am trying to ensure is that that option is not ruled out where one small co-op could benefit from merging with a couple of others to remain mutual, rather than demutualising. That is the key point.

We have seen that in a slightly different way with credit unions. I helped merge a small credit union in Gloucester with a number of others in Gloucestershire to create one single Gloucestershire Credit Union. That enabled it to survive for another decade, although, sadly, it has now failed.

The key thing is that there are moments when even a mutual can benefit from additional scale by merging with other mutuals—specifically so that it does not need to demutualise. That is really my point, and I am sure the Minister will be able to shed light on the issue.

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[Andrew Griffith]

I thank my hon. Friend for his point. It is a laudable ambition, which I am certainly happy to devote time to. Mutuals with the values of people in the community at their core are genuinely central to the vibrant, competitive and diverse—we are in favour of financial diversity—way in which the UK can serve the whole community. It is right that we look at how we do that, and how we can access capital. There are some technical points—I believe that Opposition Members understand that—in ensuring that we retain the tax advantages of mutuals, and do not inadvertently make them look more and more like corporate entities, which they are not, thereby prejudicing that tax treatment.

[Gareth Thomas]

I take the Minister’s point that there are some technical issues, but there has seemingly not been a great deal of will from HMRC thus far to try to find a way forward on them. Will he set out what instructions he has given to HMRC officials, perhaps to co-operate with the Law Commission, or whether separate work is being done within the Treasury to find a way around those technical issues? One of the things that came out of the LV= story—it was not a particular issue for LV=, but it certainly was for other mutuals—was that access to capital is holding back the development of friendly societies and their ability to offer more wide-ranging products and services.

[Andrew Griffith]

I am sure that my steely-eyed colleagues at HMRC do not need any particular direction, but they will have some challenge from me. I have already started to engage in that space. The hon. Member will appreciate that the corpus of law in this area is substantial, and that we should proceed cautiously. I will come on to the Law Commission, and perhaps that can be—

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[Gareth Thomas]

There has not been a problem with their being cautious; the problem has been getting them to do something.

[The Chair]

Order. We cannot have a conversation. The hon. Member should either intervene or not.

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In response to the hon. Member for Preston and my hon. Friend the Member for North East Bedfordshire, I confirm that my Department is in active discussions with the Law Commission on options to proceed with reviews of the Co-operative and Community Benefit Societies Act 2014 and the Friendly Societies Act 1992, with a view to launching them in the next financial year. As part of the dialogue, officials are working with the commission and with input from the sector to define the scope and framework of such reviews. Many of the ideas raised today, and others, can be revisited as part of a review. I look forward to engaging and hearing how we can move towards the ambition talked about today. The Government believe the Bill to be genuinely helpful.

[Gareth Thomas]

Will there be an opportunity for the House in some way to consider whether the scope of the review is as wide-ranging as those of us who are advocates of the sector across parties think is necessary?

[Andrew Griffith]

I am always happy to engage with the hon. Member. The simple answer is that I do not know whether it is for the House to engage, but I am happy—I hope my actions to date speak as loudly as my words—to engage on what that scope should be. I certainly assure him that, before the launch of a review, the sector will be consulted. If hon. Members have particular points to make, I am keen to hear them.

The future of mutuality looks bright and prosperous. That ambition is supported by the Government. I commend the hon. Member for Preston for his work on the Bill. The Government will support it.

Oral Answers to Questions

Gareth Thomas Excerpts

Tuesday 28th June 2022 Commons Chamber

[John Glen]

I thank my hon. Friend for his question. He is an expert in this area, given his role in Barrow. We will be amending the Credit Union Act 1979 shortly, which will allow credit unions to offer more services such as hire purchase, conditional sale agreements and so on. With respect to the common bond—that being the link for all credit union members—we will need to see evidence that it supports the needs of the sector, but I have been working closely with the Association of British Credit Unions Limited, the trade body for 70% of credit unions, on its “Vision 2025” document. I visited its conference recently, and we will bring measures forward shortly in the financial services and markets Bill.

[Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)]

Further to the excellent question from the hon. Member for Barrow and Furness (Simon Fell), I say gently to the Minister that Ministers have always had warm words for credit unions, which I welcome, but have been somewhat slow to give them or other mutuals, such as friendly societies, the Whitehall and parliamentary support for the legal reforms to drive significant expansion. Will the Minister now back the private Member’s Bill of my hon. Friend the Member for Preston (Sir Mark Hendrick) and require all public bodies to promote credit unions going forward?

[John Glen]

Over the years, we have had considerable dialogue on many of these measures. As I said, the legislation that the sector is looking for will be introduced in the next few weeks. I am aware of the Bill of the hon. Member for Preston (Sir Mark Hendrick), and I am seeking to have a meeting with him imminently—in the next few days or next week—to discuss it and to see what we can support.

Oral Answers to Questions

Gareth Thomas Excerpts

Tuesday 17th May 2022 Commons Chamber

[Mr Clarke]

I share my hon. Friend’s passion for the UK’s world-leading life sciences sector. That is why we have invested £5 billion in health research and development, including for delivery of our life sciences vision, as well as £60 million for the life sciences innovative manufacturing fund and £200 million in the life sciences investment programme, all of which institutions in Hertfordshire can benefit from.

[Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)]

I am sure that the Chief Secretary will agree that, for levelling up to work well, there is a need for more jobs linked to exports to be created across the UK. With export growth in the UK lagging behind that of every other rich nation, why did he and his colleagues sign off cuts in funding to the North East England chamber of commerce to promote exports from that region?

[Mr Clarke]

I agree that a flourishing export sector is vital. That is, of course, why we are so pleased to be delivering innovative policies in the north-east such as a freeport on Teesside, which is a great example of how we will bolster the export strengths that exist for our current and future employers. We clearly want to work closely with all partners, including the chambers of commerce, who do an excellent job, but it is absolutely not just about measures in grants to any individual institution. Our ambition is to create a high-growth, high-wage economy, and exports sit at the centre of that. Our actions speak loudly about our total commitment to that.

Oral Answers to Questions

Gareth Thomas Excerpts

Tuesday 15th March 2022 Commons Chamber

[Mr Clarke]

No, I do not agree with that report. It is an unfair characterisation of a response that was put in place at pace to meet an unprecedented crisis in our employment market. The wider success of our policy on youth employment is best measured by the fact that in January there were 500,000 more employees aged under 25 than there were in January 2021. The kickstart programme has played its full part in helping to make that possible.

[Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)]

Businesses in the steel industry are more likely to be able to support the kickstart scheme if the Government manage to get Donald Trump’s unfair tariffs of 25% on British steel exports lifted, as the Japanese and the EU have already achieved. Has the Chancellor spoken to the Chief Secretary about this issue, and if not why not?

[Mr Clarke]

The hon. Gentleman makes a very good point about tariffs. Obviously, the Government believe in free trade and it is something that we want to see happen too. As a Member of Parliament who represents a steel-making constituency, I am keenly aware of this as an issue. The Department for International Trade leads on the issue, and I know that the Secretary of State and her predecessor have had long and ongoing conversations with their American counterparts about getting those tariffs lifted.

Oral Answers to Questions

Gareth Thomas Excerpts

Tuesday 1st February 2022 Commons Chamber

[Lucy Frazer]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right to focus on skills, and that is exactly what the Chancellor did in the spending review, with an investment, over the Parliament, of £3.8 billion. My hon. Friend mentions the Marches institute of technology, and we are investing in a total of 21 of those innovative institutions across England. Employer-led training is key to growth, and that is why we are quadrupling the scale of skills boot camps in England, including digital skills boot camps, which are available in Dudley and funded by the Government.

[Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)]

Businesses in financial services are more likely to invest here as opposed to European markets if an agreement is reached with the EU on financial services regulation. Last March, the Economic Secretary to the Treasury, the hon. Member for Salisbury (John Glen), said that he expected such an agreement to be signed expeditiously. It still has not been. When does the Minister think the memorandum of understanding on financial services regulation will finally be signed?

[Lucy Frazer]

The hon. Member makes an important point. Financial services are very important to the UK. We are ready to make a deal and we look forward to hearing from the EU.

Oral Answers to Questions

Gareth Thomas Excerpts

Tuesday 7th December 2021 Commons Chamber

[Rishi Sunak]

Yes, I would be very happy to. I am fresh from my visit to Yarm High Street last week to see levelling up in action, and I am back up in the north-east this week.

[Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Chancellor of the Exchequer will be aware of the considerable public unease about the proposed demutualisation of Liverpool Victoria. Will he therefore consider sympathetically the cross-party letter he has received from over 100 parliamentarians calling for a review of the law governing mutuals?

[John Glen]

As the hon. Gentleman knows, we have had considerable engagement on this subject. This is a matter for the Financial Conduct Authority, and we have discussed it. Obviously, members will now vote on the proposal. On the broader issue of how this sector is treated, I remain willing to engage with him on further changes and reforms that may help it in future.

Access to Cash

Gareth Thomas Excerpts

Wednesday 20th October 2021 Westminster Hall

[Alex Davies-Jones]

I completely agree. My hon. Friend is absolutely right to make that point. In constituencies such as ours, we are not exactly talking about a kilometre as the crow flies. People would need to travel on several buses or walk a much greater distance to reach a free-to-use ATM.

Many Members before me, including the hon. Member for North Ayrshire and Arran (Patricia Gibson) and the hon. Member for Blackpool North and Cleveleys (Paul Maynard) to name but two, have been particularly vocal in their support for free-to-use ATMs. Thanks to LINK and UK Finance, we know that ATMs remain the most popular way of withdrawing cash—about 93% of cash withdrawals take place at a cash machine. There are 53,500 ATMs in the UK, 12,500 of which are pay-to-use. Only 41,000 are free to use. Some 94% of cash withdrawals are free of charge, but it will come as no surprise that cash withdrawals have dropped significantly. Coronavirus has undoubtedly expedited the move towards a cashless society.

As of August 2021, ATM usage is down a whopping 45% on pre-pandemic levels. This worrying trend impacts us all, but we can all agree that it is the elderly and the most vulnerable who are likely to be most impacted. Some groups of people may be nervous about using technology and may fear the potential cyber-security repercussions of using contactless payment systems. Others may struggle to remember their personal identification number, or may simply not have the form of identification available to set up a complex banking service.

I was also shocked to learn from the Treasury Committee report on increasing financial inclusion that there are still around 1 million people in the UK without a bank account. Some older, lower-income households rely on cash to budget because of a lack of access to online banking. In the conversations about the importance of cash and access to cash, we must acknowledge the clear regional divides that still persist. For example, here in London, 75% of card usage is now contactless, yet parts of my constituency simply do not have the broadband infrastructure to support contactless payments. The lack of investment in basic infrastructure means that many businesses in my area, through no fault of their own, are restricted in their ability to expand or develop. Our country is likely to follow the path taken by our friends in the European Union, notably Sweden, and become increasingly cashless to keep up with modernising in a global economy, but that modernisation cannot come at the expense of some of our most vulnerable groups, with communities and regions being left behind once more.

[Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)]

Perhaps I can encourage my hon. Friend to pay tribute to the community credit unions that have branches, and that actively encourage people to bring cash in and that help them to take cash out. Does she agree that community credit unions need more support from the Government to expand their networks and offer more services, so that they are even more attractive?

[Alex Davies-Jones]

I completely agree. In my constituency we have Dragonsavers, a vital service for local community groups, and the Welsh Labour Government are looking to set up Banc Cambria, so that we have banks on our high streets. They are looking at where it would be feasible to open branches.

While it is rare for me to have reason to doubly praise the Government, I am pleased to see that the plans outlined by the Treasury earlier this year suggest that people should not have to travel beyond a reasonable distance of around 1 km to withdraw or deposit cash. Such commitments are vital to the survival of cash circulation in this country, but as has been mentioned, only if the local geography of our towns and cities across the UK are taken into account when considering that 1 km radius.

For hon. Members not familiar with the south Wales valleys, my hon. Friend the Member for Ogmore (Chris Elmore) and I can assure them that our hills and beautiful valleys are not for the faint-hearted. These geographical barriers cannot be ignored when factoring in access to cash for community members, both now and in future. I therefore hope to hear from the Minister exactly how the Treasury plans to safeguard those vital services, particularly for those living in rural and semi-rural constituencies such as mine.

There is some hope, though. As hon. Members will be aware, LINK is a not-for-profit with a strong public interest remit that runs the UK’s largest free-to-use cash machine network. Instead of owning and operating those machines, LINK’s job is to ensure that every community has free access to cash by paying commercial incentives to ATM operators to put free machines where they are needed.

Indeed, after representations from a number of residents, I was thrilled to see LINK secure a new ATM at the village store in Efail Isaf in my constituency. The ATM is now secured for a minimum of five years, and it will go a long way to helping those in our area. For two years, LINK has invited communities to request free-to-use ATMs such as this one, and in that time it has installed more than 70 of them in response to local demand, alongside a year-long trial that saw LINK working with partners to develop a new way of accessing cash, by allowing consumers to withdraw cash over the counter from participating retailers.

I am pleased to see innovative steps being taken to secure access to cash for all those who need it. What will be essential, however, is maintaining those fantastic services. I truly believe the Government must act on the recommendations recently produced by Cardtronics and the Federation of Small Businesses, which ask Her Majesty’s Treasury to mandate bank membership of LINK in order to protect its fantastic withdrawing and free-to-use ATM delivery schemes.

In addition to my very real concerns about the impact of a potentially cashless society on certain populations, this conversation must also address the many logistical challenges and concerns around the largely inevitable shift to a cashless world. We need a long-term solution, whereas I fear the Treasury is currently in denial about the fact that we seem to be heading at a record pace for an almost wholly cashless society.

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[Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)]

I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Pontypridd (Alex Davies-Jones) for securing the debate and for the way she introduced it. I, too, think that banks should be mandated to stay as members of LINK, and that the pressure on banks relating to costs and to their desire to maximise profits, which has led to so many bank branches closing, is unlikely to dissipate any time soon unless Ministers take action.

The hon. Member for Blackpool North and Cleveleys (Paul Maynard) referred to a big meeting that is taking place in the City, but I fear that it will not lead to a whole slew of new bank branches opening. In fact, the pressure on banks to continue the programme of closures means that we will continue to live with it unless Ministers take action. The right hon. Member for Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale (David Mundell) mentioned post office closures. I fear that those are the beginning of a pattern of closures that Royal Mail is also likely to engage in unless there is ministerial pressure to bring about a change of heart. The ability to withdraw and deposit cash is absolutely what makes the bank closures important. If Ministers will not mandate banks and post offices to maintain existing numbers of bank branches, it will undoubtedly become much harder for people to use cash.

I will use my remaining time to drill down into and encourage the Minister to look at one potential solution: community credit unions. Although they recognise the cost of community branches having a physical presence in their community, they have made a deliberate policy decision to go ahead and set up branches. Unless those credit unions can be helped to expand and offer a wider range of products, they too will face difficult cost pressures.

I know that the Minister is committed to bringing forward legislation to allow some expansion of credit union services, and I welcome that. It would be good to hear that the timescale for that to happen was being sped up. From what I gather, it is a set of changes that, welcome as they are, are not yet ambitious enough. I therefore gently encourage him to consider a more specific programme to encourage a whole range of commercial and public sector organisations to encourage people to join their local community credit union. Why not establish with employers, for the first time, a right to save: the right of the employee to go to the employer and say, “I want to save a small sum of money”—however small—“through a payroll deduction service”—perhaps with a credit union that the employer has sat down with and chosen—“and in that both help myself to be more financially resilient, and help my credit union and my community to grow and offer the services that are necessary”?