European Union (Withdrawal Arrangements) Bill

Debate between Fleur Anderson and Gavin Robinson

2nd reading
Friday 6th December 2024 Commons Chamber

[Fleur Anderson]

No, I will make some progress now.

[Gavin Robinson]

Will the Minister give way to me?

[Fleur Anderson]

indicated assent.

[Gavin Robinson]

I am very grateful to the Minister, but could I just cautiously and gently urge her to draw back from the comments she has made about the movement and security around the border? One of the most incendiary things to occur during the discussions with the European Union and the British Government was Leo Varadkar showing a copy of The Irish Times that displayed a picture of a border post that was blown up by the IRA during the troubles, and suggesting that the trade arrangements could lead to the same thing. He was wrong then, and I think the Minister is in danger of stepping into that territory today.

[Fleur Anderson]

I hope the right hon. Member understands that I am talking about the difference between a hard border and a soft border. The Windsor framework enables the smooth flow of trade, which is good for businesses on both sides of the border and also safeguards the Union. The Windsor framework does not damage the Union; it actually strengthens it and ensures that it can continue.

Police Funding

Debate between Fleur Anderson and Gavin Robinson

Tuesday 5th November 2024 Westminster Hall

[Fleur Anderson]

The need for more funding is understood, which is why I was glad that more money was delivered to Northern Ireland in last week’s Budget. It was good news for Northern Ireland. The Budget delivered a record £18.2 billion for the Northern Ireland Executive for 2025-26—the largest settlement in real terms in the history of devolution. That includes a £1.5 billion top-up through Barnett consequentials for 2025-26: £1.2 billion for day-to-day spending and £270 million for capital investment. What will be done with that money? It is for the Executive to set a budget for all Northern Ireland Departments and for the Department of Justice to allocate funding to the PSNI. How that funding is used is an operational matter for the PSNI and the Chief Constable.

The PSNI estate—police stations—was raised by the hon. Member for North Down. The allocation of that money and questions of whether police stations are open or not are entirely operational matters for the Chief Constable, who is accountable to the Northern Ireland Policing Board.

Paramilitarism has been mentioned. The effort to tackle paramilitarism is led by the Northern Ireland Executive’s “Tackling Paramilitary Activity, Criminality and Organised Crime” programme, which was established after the “Fresh Start” agreement. The programme is working to tackle the presence of paramilitaries through evidence-based early interventions, targeted law enforcement measures and initiatives that provide direct support to help build safer communities who are resilient to paramilitarism. The UK Government provide 50% of the funding—£8 million a year—for the cross-Executive programme for tackling paramilitary activity and organised crime. As was announced in the spending review, that has been secured through to March 2026.

One strand of this work is the Paramilitary Crime Task Force, the PCTF, which is a multi-agency taskforce including officers from the PSNI, the National Crime Agency and His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs. Over the period from April 2023 to March 2024, the PCTF made 107 disruptions and 83 arrests, charged and reported 115 people and conducted 175 searches. The PCTF seized drugs with a street value of more than £1.3 million and illicit tobacco with a street value of more than £2.8 million, along with 41 firearms and weapons, of which eight were explosive devices.

The Executive programme for tackling paramilitary activity and organised crime has provided PSNI with £5.6 million in 2023-24, and the same for 2024-25. PSNI police numbers have been raised several times—rightly so. A well-staffed and resourced PSNI is vital to the success and stability of Northern Ireland. I am aware that the PSNI restarted recruitment earlier this year, and that the Chief Constable has been speaking to the Department of Justice to discuss funding to allow that to continue. Recruitment and retention are absolutely vital to delivering effective policing. Policing in Northern Ireland, apart from national security, is a devolved matter, and police numbers are a matter for the Department of Justice and the Chief Constable. As of 1 October 2024, PSNI has 6,303 full-time officers. I am aware that the Chief Constable aims to lift officer numbers to 7,000 within three years. That will be challenging, but I understand that he is speaking to the Department of Justice about it and we will continue to support him.

The hon. Member for North Down will be aware of the Executive’s draft programme for government, which was published in September. I note the programme’s recognition that PSNI officer numbers are low, and welcome the Executive’s commitment to grow police officer numbers to 7,500 in line with New Decade, New Approach. As I have said, last week’s Budget delivered the largest settlement in real terms in the history of devolution, including that £1.5 billion top-up through the Barnett consequentials. The money is not ringfenced, and the Northern Ireland Department of Finance will work with Executive Departments to allocate it based on budget pressures.

I welcome the fact that the data breach was raised by the right hon. Member for Belfast East (Gavin Robinson). In response to the August 2023 PSNI data breach, the PSNI worked closely with the Department of Justice in Northern Ireland to fully understand the cost implications of its response to the very serious incident. The UK Government granted an initial, non-repayable reserve claim of £15 million after the data breach. That was communicated to the Department of Finance and intended to assist in addressing the challenges to the PSNI budget caused by the data breach. In February 2024, however, the Department of Finance confirmed that the funding was not required and PSNI costs could be absorbed within the NI budget. No additional funding was required from the UK Government, but we continue to work together in ways like that to ensure that policing can continue.

[Gavin Robinson]

Would the Minister accept that that was in relation to the likely fine from the Information Commissioner’s Office? The fine was greatly reduced, but there is no cover or resource allocation for the level of compensation that will be due to the thousands of officers that were involved. That figure is at £240 million.

[Fleur Anderson]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for raising that ongoing issue, but I will need to conclude now. I agree with the hon. Member for Upper Bann (Carla Lockhart) that ending violence against women and girls must be a priority in policing. Altogether, it has been demonstrated that the positive steps Northern Ireland has taken to become a more peaceful and prosperous place are ongoing, and reflect the commitment of communities from across Northern Ireland to build a safer place to live and work. The work of the PSNI, alongside other security partners, is a crucial component in the delivery of a safer Northern Ireland. I am delighted that the Government have been able to increase the additional security funding provided to PSNI to allow it to continue to do that.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Fleur Anderson and Gavin Robinson

Wednesday 23rd October 2024 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I call the leader of the Democratic Unionist party.

[Gavin Robinson (Belfast East) (DUP)]

We look forward to a positive conclusion to those discussions next week. As the Minister knows, both representatives from the Mid South West region growth deal and the Causeway Coast and Glens growth deal are in Westminster today. Will the Minister acknowledge that, in working with businesses and in trying to encourage greater trade within our own country, the appointment of a chair of Intertrade UK was an important first step, but work needs to start, the terms of reference need to be set and businesses need to be able to engage with that body established to support trade within our country?

[Fleur Anderson]

I agree with the right hon. Member that Intertrade UK needs to get going with its work to encourage investment between all of the regions and nations of the UK. It is very important to set the terms of reference, and we are working with the organisation as fast as we can now that the chair is in their place

[Gavin Robinson]

I thank the Minister for her reply. She will know from discussions with her Cabinet colleagues that decisions have been taken to delay the agreement on parcels, to delay the agreement on customs, and to avoid taking the decision on UK-wide labelling. Myriad other decisions were also made and supported by this House, including Labour Members, that are required to be implemented from the “Safeguarding the Union” document. She will know about the interface between trade and constitutional politics, so I urge her to engage with the Secretary of State, the Paymaster General and others within the Cabinet to get on and deliver what businesses and the people of Northern Ireland need?

[Fleur Anderson]

We are not the only Ministers who came into office three months ago to have faced all sorts of decisions that should have been taken by the previous Government. We have taken up those decisions on parcels and on every aspect that the right hon. Member mentions. He is right to raise them, because we do need to work on them to ensure that we protect the UK internal market and that we create the best possible regime for business.

Northern Ireland Veterans Commissioner

Debate between Fleur Anderson and Gavin Robinson

Tuesday 15th October 2024 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Fleur Anderson)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Dowd. This is my first time responding to a Westminster Hall debate for the Government and I am delighted that it is on this issue; my grandfather was from Northern Ireland and served in the British Army, so this debate is very close to my heart. I am so grateful for his service and the service of all veterans.

I congratulate the hon. Member for South Antrim (Robin Swann) on securing this important debate—his first Westminster Hall debate as well—and on his work to improve support for veterans in Northern Ireland over many years, including reconvening the Armed Forces Liaison Forum when he was Minister of Health for Northern Ireland. I know he is deeply committed to ensuring that veterans in his constituency, and indeed right across the UK, receive all the recognition they deserve and the support to which they are entitled. It is a commitment shared by this Government and, I am sure, by all in this Chamber—

[Gavin Robinson]

I appreciate that the Minister is here today and speaks with a personal connection to this story. She will know that the commitments in NDNA were important and represented work done in the Defence Select Committee and through private Members’ Bills to make sure veterans in Northern Ireland had a strong voice, as their counterparts across the United Kingdom do. She should also know that the last number of years have proven very difficult for veterans, with the closure of the VSO and with the feeling that they are not treated the same as their counterparts across the UK. Does she understand that the most important initial step she could take would be to confirm that the NIO will advertise the position of Veterans Commissioner? Doing that now would indicate a commitment to that support.

[Peter Dowd (in the Chair)]

Order. This is a half-hour debate. I accept that people are intervening on a very important matter, but I ask Members to be careful and considerate with their interventions in such debates.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Fleur Anderson and Gavin Robinson

Wednesday 24th July 2024 Commons Chamber

[Gavin Robinson (Belfast East) (DUP)]

4. What steps he plans to take to support public services in Northern Ireland.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Fleur Anderson)]

I am delighted to be appointed to this role, and I look forward to working closely with Executive Ministers to see public services transformed in Northern Ireland. I will be meeting the First and Deputy First Ministers tomorrow in Stormont, as well as the Northern Ireland Health Minister, Mike Nesbitt.

[Gavin Robinson]

I welcome the Minister of State and Secretary of State to their positions. I am delighted to see them in post, and I know they are committed to effective public services and stability of the institutions in Northern Ireland. May I caution that in a number of responses that we have received from the Front Bench, we are having a recurring conversation that the fiscal framework that was announced back in December on an interim basis does not solve the problems we have? Even the stabilisation money that was agreed back in December has already been forecast as necessary to sustain pay in Northern Ireland. Will the Minister of State engage earnestly not only with what the Government—both of this hue and the previous Government—have been saying for the past six months, and recognise that to provide good public services in Northern Ireland we need not only to sustain, but to transform?

[Fleur Anderson]

I agree with the right hon. Member. Money is allocated specifically for transformation of public services to improve service delivery outcomes. In Northern Ireland, three in 10 people are on an NHS waiting list; that number is one in 10 here in England. That figure needs to be transformed for health outcomes.

I will be talking about funding when I meet Executive Ministers, but I will also be talking about other ways in which our doors, and those of other Government Ministers, too, are open. We are determined to work together to transform public services.

British Citizenship (Northern Ireland) Bill

Debate between Fleur Anderson and Gavin Robinson

Committee stage
Wednesday 17th April 2024 Public Bill Committees

[Gavin Robinson]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship this morning, Mrs Harris. I thank all hon. and right hon. colleagues for taking the time to attend this Public Bill Committee. I am pleased to move amendment 1. In the course of my remarks I hope to provide context for the Bill, but I shall not regurgitate the commentary from Second Reading; it would not be in order to do so. However, I hope that it contextualises the nature of the amendments under consideration.

This Bill has a long, long past. The opportunity has arisen—and it is one that I have seized—to resolve an issue that has been long in gestation and hopefully is soon to be delivered. My colleague in the other place, Lord Hay of Ballyore, commented last year that this conundrum was first raised in this House in 1985, which was just before my first birthday. For a decade now, he has passionately been an advocate for the changes outlined in the Bill.

In doing so, Lord Hay has sought to complement and support the sustained and unparalleled efforts of my hon. Friend the Member for East Londonderry (Mr Campbell). As a Member of this House since 2001, my hon. Friend has consistently and relentlessly—and with what some might say is characteristic fervour—tabled questions, pursued debates, encouraged Ministers and expertly tilled the ground to make it so fertile today. His labour has not been in vain, and over the course of the last number of years he has collected the support of colleagues from right across the political spectrum in the House of Commons.

The essence of the Bill is this. Colleagues throughout the House will recognise that the Belfast Agreement sought to address issues of identity. Although it was accepted and acknowledged that Northern Ireland’s place in the United Kingdom was constitutionally settled, those with a competing aspiration could avail of Irish identity, and the Government of the Republic of Ireland afforded them the opportunity to obtain Irish citizenship.

In Northern Ireland, some hold citizenship singularly, while others happily enjoy dual citizenship of both the UK and the Republic of Ireland. However, what was not settled was reciprocation in the other direction. This Parliament will know the history and relationship of our intertwined relations, and this Bill seeks to provide the final piece of that relational jigsaw. In my view, anyone who is born in the Republic of Ireland but lives in the United Kingdom and satisfies the residency test should be able to avail themselves of British citizenship.

Those who say, “Sure—just apply for naturalisation in the normal way,” fail to recognise or respond to the special relationships that our nations have had. From 1801, our nations were united. The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland accorded the same citizenship protections to us all. When partition occurred in 1921, the right of those resident in the Irish Free State to avail of UK citizenship was contained and delivered through their dominion status. It was only when the Irish Republic was established and the British Nationality Act 1948 came into effect in the following year that those entitlements were lost. Since 1949, that means that anyone who was born in the Republic of Ireland but lived and worked in and continued to contribute to the UK has not been able to avail themselves of British citizenship as their forefathers did.

I mentioned my colleague in the other place, Lord Hay of Ballyore, whose lineage perhaps best illustrates this point. He was born in Donegal in April 1950—some 15 months after the law changed—yet has lived for the overwhelming majority of his life in Londonderry, Northern Ireland. He served on his local council from 1981; he was elected to the Northern Ireland Assembly in 1998, and served as Speaker of that Assembly from 2007 to 2014, when he was elevated to the House of Lords. To this day, a decade later, he remains a peer of this realm and a legislator in our Parliament, yet he is not a British citizen.

The question is this: should anyone in that situation—anyone who has served our nation practically, materially and productively—be expected to pay a naturalisation fee of £1,580 and complete a Life in the UK citizenship test? The notion that they should is, to my mind, offensive, contrary to the spirit of reciprocation offered through the Belfast agreement of 1998, blind to our history and ignorant of the legal reality. We enjoy a common travel area between our nations, and Irish citizens moving throughout the United Kingdom are already exempt from immigration formalities. They enjoy a range of related rights to work, vote and study, and access education and healthcare as though they were already British citizens.

On Second Reading, I highlighted my appreciation not only for the courteous and pragmatic engagement on this issue of the Home Office Minister and his officials, but for their willingness to engage with me in a way that has brought us to this point today. The amendments before colleagues this morning were flagged as a potential on Second Reading, but were going through the process of parliamentary procedure. Though the initial drive for this legislation was to recognise those living in Northern Ireland, as I said on Second Reading and will say again today, as a Unionist, I have no principled objection to—in fact, I am delighted with—the Government’s approach that these measures should not be confined solely to Northern Ireland. There should be no restriction or import placed on geographical location.

Amendment 1 will replace a reference to “persons born in Ireland” with “Irish citizens”. Similarly, amendment 2 will ensure references to Irish citizens, as opposed to those born in Ireland. Amendments 3 and 4 will replace references to Northern Ireland with the entire United Kingdom. Amendment 5, again, will change “persons born in Ireland” to “Irish citizens”.

All amendments are within the confines of the spirit of the Bill and apply to those who are resident within the United Kingdom and satisfy legally the residency test. The Bill will apply to those who have and proudly hold their Irish heritage, who will be able to attain British citizenship throughout the United Kingdom irrespective of where they live, provided they satisfy the residency requirements. The approach will move the import of the Bill at inception beyond the confines of our 1.9 million people, and the Irish nationals who reside with us in Northern Ireland, to the entirety of the UK—a catchment of 60 million people—and the Irish nationals who live in our communities throughout the United Kingdom.

That is a hugely welcome step. It is not where I started on this journey, but, seeing the door opened so welcomingly and productively by the Home Office Minister and his officials, it is something I can rationalise as a huge step forward. We cannot predict the future, but if this is the culmination of an almost 40-year parliamentary pursuit to close the circle and formally and thoughtfully recognise the ability of Irish citizens living in our communities and as part of our country to attain United Kingdom citizenship, I think it will be a job well done.

In moving amendment 1 and having spoken to the import of the subsequent and consequential amendments, I hope that as a Public Bill Committee we can resolve that, in common with most private Members’ Bills, this Bill—although small in impact and narrow in scope—will make a huge difference for those who are a part of our country and we will be able to get, as I have said, the final piece in this jigsaw.

[Fleur Anderson (Putney) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Mrs Harris. I congratulate the right hon. Member for Belfast East on his success in the ballot and on bringing the Bill as far as this stage. I am delighted that after nine years of trying in the ballot, he has finally had this positive result with lucky number 322—that may be a hint for all of us.

The issue at the heart of the debate is straightforward. This Bill is an important acknowledgment of the special relationship between our nations and a worthy follow-on from a debate that we held recently on the value and recognition of the contribution of the Irish diaspora to our life in the UK.

Following the Good Friday agreement, the Government of the Republic of Ireland offered people in Northern Ireland the opportunity to attain Irish citizenship, but what was not settled was an agreement for citizenship rights in the other direction. Questions about citizenship for Republic of Ireland nationals living in the north and wishing to become British have been left up in the air for too long—nearly 40 years, as the right hon. Gentleman said. Long-term residents of Northern Ireland from the Republic should be recognised as citizens of the UK —if that is their desire—without the need for a citizenship test and the need to prove their intention to stay in the UK. We need to streamline the process and to be welcoming to them as well.

The Opposition’s support for these amendments, which broaden the scope of the Bill, is certain. The amendments make it much more inclusive and fair. First, we support amendments making British citizenship available to Irish nationals regardless of how they became Irish and not only to those born in the Republic of Ireland. That is clearly a practical and sensible change to the Bill, and we support it.

I extend our support to amendment 2, which removes the requirement for Irish nationals to have been born after a certain date to qualify for this route to citizenship. We also support amendment 3, which alters the residence requirements for the new route to British citizenship, so that those wishing to gain citizenship can have lived in any part of the United Kingdom for five years and not only Northern Ireland. That obviously widens the scope of the Bill to constituents in all our constituencies, including those in London, from 31,000 people in Northern Ireland to about 270,000 people. This amendment addresses concerns about possible discrepancies across the United Kingdom and ensures equality, which we welcome.

We support the amendments, but we remain concerned about the Government’s implementation of this new route to citizenship. Specifically, I would like to mention the issue of fees. The Northern Ireland Affairs Committee has made previous recommendations that fees should be waived for Irish citizens seeking naturalisation in the UK. When it comes to getting an Irish passport or getting a British passport, there is an enormous difference and discrepancy. On Second Reading, the Government indicated that a dedicated route for Irish citizens would reduce the burden for applicants, creating a more straightforward route to British citizenship, which could lead to lower fees. Can the Minister confirm today whether that decision has been taken, and if not, when are we likely to know by?

It is worth pointing out that the fees for registration or naturalisation are currently in the region of £1,500, a not insignificant sum. A slight reduction is noted in the Library briefing, but that still leaves the fee as £1,431, so I ask what provision, if any, the Government intend to make for individual exemptions to the usual fees under the new system—assuming that it is introduced, which I firmly hope it is. Lastly, we are pleased to hear that the Life in the UK test will not be a requirement for the new route.

On behalf of His Majesty’s Opposition, I say in closing that the right hon. Member for Belfast East has put forward strong and persuasive arguments in support of the Bill and been tenacious in pursuing it. The Government’s support, given the passing of the amendments in front of us, will, I hope, be welcomed by Members who represent Northern Ireland’s communities in this House, and beyond. On behalf of His Majesty’s Opposition, I am happy to add my party’s support to these amendments and this Bill.