Finance (No. 4) Bill

Elizabeth Truss Excerpts

Thursday 19th April 2012 Commons Chamber

[Katy Clark]

Many pensioners, and many among the general population, are disappointed that the Government have not lived up to their election promises on that allowance.

The point that I was making is that pensioners need more time to adjust. I welcome the increase in the personal allowance—I believe that there should be higher personal allowances for everyone—but if the Government are going ahead with this particular kind of proposal, they should give people many years’ notice so that they can prepare for the changes. Given the situation that pensions are now in, which I will go into in more detail if I have time, this is the wrong time to be clobbering pensioners in this way.

[Elizabeth Truss (South West Norfolk) (Con)]

Are we not in this situation partly because of the failure of reform over the past 30 years? Despite the fact that people are living longer and longer, nothing has been done. We have now abolished the compulsory retirement age, which will enable many older people to carry on working and earning more income. Why was that not done under the previous Government?

[Katy Clark]

The hon. Lady is attempting to rewrite history. She will know that the previous Labour Government brought in a whole range of reforms to take account of the increase in the living age. My hon. Friend the Member for Wirral South (Alison McGovern) highlighted the fact that that increase is far from uniform, owing to health inequalities. Life expectancy has not increased so much among people on lower incomes and from lower socio-economic groups, for example.

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[Nigel Mills]

I have given way many times, so I shall not do so again.

I am not sure that the Government have quite gone down the model line by picking up on the key points made in the OTS report on pensioner taxation. However, if we consider the tax system for pensioners—with higher personal allowances for those over 65 and those over 75, the tapering or claw-back of money depending on how much income they have, as well as all the other different allowances—we can see that the situation is incredibly confusing.

[Elizabeth Truss]

Does my hon. Friend agree that one of the things we need to do at the moment is encourage employers to take on more staff? If we have a system such as the Chancellor proposes in the long term and is certainly looking at, whereby national insurance and tax are simplified, it will be much easier for employers to process those expenses and to take on new staff, and that will really help to get the economy going.

[Nigel Mills]

I entirely agree about a simplified tax system, and if we could have found a way of merging income tax and national insurance, taking away one complexity, that would have been a great step forward. The tax regime for pensioners—people in retirement—is far too complicated and we need to find a way of simplifying it.

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[Mr Gauke]

Clause 4 makes changes to age-related income tax personal allowances, supporting the Government’s longer-term aim of simplifying the tax system by creating a single personal allowance regardless of age. In light of the Government’s commitment to increase the personal allowance to £10,000, together with our commitment that older people will benefit from future increases in the personal allowance above their 2013 allowance once these are aligned, there will be no need to continue with this complication in the tax system. One of the Government’s key objectives for the tax system is to make it simpler and easier for everyone to understand.

[Elizabeth Truss]

Given that the UK is 94th in the world according to the World Economic Forum for the extent and complexity of our tax system, has my hon. Friend heard any proposals from the Labour party about how to make our tax rates more competitive or how to make our tax system simpler?

[Mr Gauke]

I have to say that I have not. What I have heard from the Labour party is their resistance to any of our attempts to make our tax rates more competitive or to simplify our tax system.

Finance (No. 4) Bill

Elizabeth Truss Excerpts

Wednesday 18th April 2012 Commons Chamber

[Owen Smith]

I am not going to give way again to hear more obscurities of protocol. They are nonsense and are just being used to distract attention from the measures.

[Elizabeth Truss (South West Norfolk) (Con)]

What impact does the hon. Gentleman think having the highest rate of income tax in the G20 has on this country’s competitiveness?

[Owen Smith]

We do not know—[Laughter.] Conservative Members might laugh, but I would like to see them present some evidence on this, instead of the flannel and rhetoric that we are hearing—[Interruption.] The Minister is waving the HMRC report. Will he point to the part of it that gives definitive data on the impact on competitiveness of any rate of tax? There is nothing about that in the report, which is why he is not getting up to point it out. Come on! Let him show me the part of the report that substantiates the point made by the hon. Member for South West Norfolk (Elizabeth Truss).

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[Elizabeth Truss]

I am delighted to see the back of the 50p tax rate. Of all the shallow, politically motivated activities of the last Government, it was possibly the worst. They spent 13 years enjoying the fruits of the 40% top rate of tax that had been put in place by our reforming Chancellor Lord Lawson in 1988. It was a bold move at the time to create a top tax rate at that level, but, as we have seen, other countries around the world have been reforming their tax systems and tax rates in order to become competitive and to face the other countries—the emerging economies—that are now competing on the world stage.

The 50p tax rate was announced in the 2009 Budget, five weeks before the last general election—an election the Labour party knew it would lose. Can things get any more cynical? That was the ultimate scorched-earth policy, and it has done enormous damage to our economy. Labour knew the economics were flawed, and the increase in the tax rate from 40p to 50p raised only a third of the £3 billion it had predicted. Meanwhile, between £16 billion and £18 billion was moved forward into income in the previous year, diverting productive activity from industries that we needed to thrive in order to keep our economy going during the recession. The change to the rate was made purely for political motives.

[Mark Reckless]

My hon. Friend makes a powerful case for the merits of a 40p top rate of tax. Will she therefore support the Opposition amendment?

[Elizabeth Truss]

I am not quite sure whether their amendment expresses what they wanted it to express. As with the HMRC report, there may be some uncertainty about what exactly the Opposition intend to do.

First, the introduction of the 50p tax rate diverted resources from the productive economy at a very important time—just as we were heading into the worst recession, thanks to the dreadful economic policies of the previous Government.

[Sheila Gilmore (Edinburgh East) (Lab)]

How can people postponing their income from one tax year to another, but nevertheless presumably still getting that income, prove so damaging to the economy? Is the hon. Lady suggesting that, having got the income a year early, they simply sent it abroad? Surely it can still be invested.

[Elizabeth Truss]

When income is artificially moved from one year to the next, it is not properly used for investing in projects. Under the previous Government, a lot of expenditure went into unproductive areas of the economy. Much of it went on excessive public spending and into the property industry, leaving us with the scorched-earth situation that we have had to address.

The signal that the previous Government sent to the rest of the world was that Britain was anti-aspiration, anti-business and anti-work. That happened at a time of increasing international competition, as it is now ever easier to move people and capital around the world because of improved technology and globalisation. Other countries were reforming their tax system, however, so as they were moving forwards, we were moving backwards.

[Kwasi Kwarteng]

Will my hon. Friend outline just how uncompetitive the 50p rate was compared with the rates of other G20 countries?

[Elizabeth Truss]

It was the highest income tax rate in the G20. We heard earlier from the Opposition spokesman that Labour did not understand the effect that that would have on our international competitiveness, which shows why it is not fit for office.

[Harriett Baldwin]

Did my hon. Friend share my shock at hearing the Opposition Front-Bench spokesman arguing that the sensitivity of the top rate of tax is static? The logic of that argument is that the top rate should be 75p, 80p, 90p or, perhaps, even 100%.

[Elizabeth Truss]

Yes, and perhaps some Opposition Front-Bench Members should move to France, where they might find that such policies are more conducive to their way of thinking.

At this time of increased international competition and great movements of people and capital around the world, and with new economies rising such as in India and China, according to the World Economic Forum Britain is 94th in the world in respect of the effect and extent of our taxation. One factor in that is the top rate of tax under the previous Government, and another is the extremely long tax code, which is a result of their meddling with our tax system over many years.

The UK is 11% less productive than the G7 average, and our skills base is lower than that of the US, France and Germany. If we are to become competitive again and improve our productivity and skills, we need incentives for people in this country to work and to invest in their skills, and we need to rebalance the tax system away from income tax and taxes on work such as national insurance, which the previous Government increased. We also need to reform our education and welfare systems and take the 2 million lowest earners out of tax, in order to give everybody more incentive to work. We must also merge our income tax and national insurance system to make things simpler for employers. We need to get rid of the previous Government’s flagship 50p tax rate as well, as it has done so much damage to people in this country who are seeking to work, to invest and to be part of building our future economy.

The Government have made it clear that we want shareholders to have proper control over executive pay in their companies, and that must happen. People must be rewarded in line with the skills they use, the risks they take and the income they generate. We need incentives for people to set up businesses, and to create and produce more. We also need to look outside Britain and see what the rest of the world is doing. We need to move away from the myopic approach that it does not matter what is going on elsewhere. If our country takes that approach, we will not succeed.

[Chris Bryant]

I had not intended to speak in this debate, but the previous—[Interruption.] I am grateful for all the waves from Government Members. The contribution of the hon. Member for South West Norfolk (Elizabeth Truss) has prompted me to speak, however.

First, I want to talk about what my hon. Friend the Member for Pontypridd (Owen Smith) referred to as the constitutional shenanigans. For many centuries, it has been a convention in this House that only a Minister of the Crown can lay a charge or an amendment to a Finance Bill that increases or changes a charge and thereby adds a duty to the people of this country, but that is a mistake. The myth that we have a Budget needs to be exploded, too. We do not have a Budget. What we have is a speech by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, followed by a Finance Bill and some Ways and Means resolutions. In addition, we have a separate process whereby Supply is granted. That system does not result in our properly evaluating whether we are raising money properly and fairly and whether we are spending it properly. I know many of these processes have existed for a very long time, but they lead to profound confusion in most ordinary voters’ minds about how we in this House conduct our business.

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[Chris Bryant]

I will give way to the hon. Member for South West Norfolk, because I referred to her directly.

[Elizabeth Truss]

The point that the hon. Gentleman makes is a political one. Is not the crucial issue here the economics and what will actually benefit his constituents? Should he not be considering the issues of whether they will have jobs, whether new businesses will flourish and whether people will aspire to work harder? Rather than the political presentation, should he not be considering the economic case?

[Chris Bryant]

I will deal with the economic case, but this is where I fundamentally disagree with the hon. Lady ideologically. I do not think we can put economics and politics into separate boxes; the one drives the other. If we want a happier country, where people prosper because they feel that the whole of society is engaged in the same endeavour, we have to make sure that it feels as if everyone has equally got their—I am going to get my metaphors all mixed up—shoulder to the grindstone. I say to Government Members that in my constituency it does not feel that that is the case at the moment. It feels as if the poor are having a very rough time, and there is very little prospect of changing that. I believe that my hon. Friend the Member for Pontypridd said that 2,700 unemployed people in his constituency were going for 200 jobs. The statistics are even worse just up the road in my constituency. It is not a question of someone getting on their bike and going somewhere else to find a job, which is why the politics matter. I am talking not about party politics, but about the sense of whether we are genuinely all in this together.

Amendment of the Law

Elizabeth Truss Excerpts

Monday 26th March 2012 Commons Chamber

[Danny Alexander]

If the hon. Gentleman had studied the Budget resolutions, he would know that there is no vote on that subject on the Order Paper tonight, so the opportunity to do so simply does not arise.

To return to the fiscal position, let me be absolutely clear: we on the Government Benches will not return to the model of growth based on unsustainable debt, irresponsible spending and over-reliance on one sector, the City of London, and one region, the south-east of England. Neither will we jeopardise the progress we have made in tackling our debts. That is why this Budget will have a neutral impact on the public finances, and implements the deficit reduction as planned. The Opposition should know that this is their mess but we are clearing it up.

[Elizabeth Truss (South West Norfolk) (Con)]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that investing in physical infrastructure is vital and is being done by this Government? Does he share my joy that people in Norfolk will soon see the new A11 being built from January to March next year?

[Danny Alexander]

I certainly share the hon. Lady’s joy that the new A11 is being built by this Government. It has been campaigned for by Members from Norfolk for many decades and never agreed to before. I just wish that I could say the same for my constituents regarding the long-awaited investment in the A9 that the Scottish Government still are not delivering.

On omissions, we heard a lot of carping from the Labour party about individual measures but there were almost no references to the single biggest measure in the Budget. Opposition Members should follow the money in this Budget. More than three quarters of the money raised in this Budget is being spent on one policy measure alone—the biggest tax cut for people on low and middle incomes in this country for a generation. We have set the goal of raising the personal tax-free allowance to £10,000—from the Liberal Democrat election manifesto to the coalition agreement to the pockets of the British people in this Budget. Next month, the income tax personal allowance will rise to £8,105. That gives real help to the working people of this country this year. Taken with the previous increase that has come through this year already, it will lift more than 1 million low-income people out of tax altogether, but we are going further and faster.

Living Standards

Elizabeth Truss Excerpts

Monday 5th March 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gauke]

I come back to the initial point: we face a huge deficit. People recognise we have to reduce it, but at the same time we are trying to do everything we can to protect the poorest. That is why we are running through the issues here.

[Elizabeth Truss (South West Norfolk) (Con)]

When the previous Government introduced so much regulation into the child care market, did not the number of child minders fall from 100,000 to 50,000 placements while the cost of child care doubled? Was that not a shameful increase in the cost of living for some of the poorest families in our country?

[Mr Gauke]

My hon. Friend makes a good point. If we are to find practical ways of improving living standards, the work that she is undertaking is exactly what we need to be doing. We need to ensure that we have an effective environment in which parents can work and child care costs are manageable.

Youth Unemployment and Bank Bonuses

Elizabeth Truss Excerpts

Monday 23rd January 2012 Commons Chamber

[Rachel Reeves]

My hon. Friend is exactly right. That is why, as part of Labour’s five-point plan for jobs and growth, we include a national insurance holiday for all small businesses taking on new workers—a policy that would help small businesses and the more than 1 million young people who are desperately searching for work.

[Elizabeth Truss (South West Norfolk) (Con)]

Does the hon. Lady accept responsibility for the failure to skill up our young people to take on jobs? For example, after the Labour party’s 13 years in office, we had the smallest proportion of 16 to 18-year-olds studying maths of any OECD country.

[Rachel Reeves]

People are not getting jobs at the moment not because they do not have skills but because the jobs are not available. In all our constituencies, five or 10 people are chasing every job. That is why unemployment is rising. Until the Government take responsibility for that, the numbers will get worse, not better.

The price that families struggling with the consequences of redundancy and young people forced to abandon their career plans pay is incalculable. We cannot go on like that. Maybe some hon. Members—we have already heard from many of them—greet the prospect of rising unemployment with a degree of fatalism, perhaps resignation. They may feel that the punishment being inflicted on innocent families and young people is the sad but inevitable consequence of austerity and economic adjustment. Indeed, as I said earlier, there is a grim familiarity about the figures, which bear a depressing resemblance to the record of previous Conservative Governments.

Fuel Prices

Elizabeth Truss Excerpts

Tuesday 15th November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Nigel Mills]

I am tempted to say that I will give way again to the hon. Gentleman if he will tell us whether he voted against the VAT rise. We have heard a great deal of concern expressed today about the VAT rise, but it is surprising that those feelings are so strong, given that most Members did not vote against it. We have often said that we had to introduce that increase in part to fix the mess that Labour left for us. If the hon. Gentleman wants to take away that £12 billion or £13 billion of tax revenue, he will have to find a way of replacing it. I shall return to the question of fuel prices before I run out of time.

The point has been well made that this issue is all-pervasive, in that fuel costs affect everything that we buy. Today the headlines are telling us that inflation has fallen to 5%. Who on earth would have thought that we would be reading such headlines? The last thing that the Government want to do is put up fuel prices, which would affect everything that we buy, thereby pushing up inflation again.

[Elizabeth Truss (South West Norfolk) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that the situation is particularly difficult for people living in rural areas? One of my constituents who was unemployed has found a job further afield. He is earning £17,000, but he is spending £3,000 of that on petrol.

[Nigel Mills]

I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend. I have similar situations in parts of my constituency. Petrol prices are much higher there than they are in large cities. I have perhaps had a bit of luck recently in that Asda has opened a branch in the past year, which has pushed some petrol prices down a little—not that I like to pay tribute to supermarkets all that often.

Governments of both parties have spent nearly 20 years putting up petrol prices, and they have justified that in part by saying that it would encourage us to change our behaviour by buying smaller cars and driving less. Well, I think we have all got that message now. I have a smaller car that does many more miles to the gallon, as have most of my constituents, and many of the businesses that I talk to have reformed the way they transport their goods in order to reduce the number of lorry loads. The message is already out there, and we do not need any more nudging. We all understand it, and there is little more that we can do. For many people, their journeys are essential, and we risk pricing them off the road and out of economic activity completely.

The price of fuel is high. In fact, the underlying price—excluding the duty—has increased by about 20% over the past two years. There is no need for an inflationary rise in the duty to ensure that the price goes up in line with inflation, because the price has already risen by that amount. I cannot see any justification for a price rise on that basis. The only argument left for a further fuel duty increase is the fact that we need tax revenue, but this would be an especially bad way of generating that revenue, given the damage that it would do to our economy at this difficult time. I therefore urge the Government to scrap the rises that are planned for next year, and to try instead to find a way of reducing the duty in order to stimulate the economic activity that we need.

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[The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Miss Chloe Smith)]

I very much welcome the opportunity to debate this motion and I shall happily correct a few points that the hon. Member for Pontypridd (Owen Smith) has just made. Most importantly, this is a chance to listen to and consider the contributions of hon. Members on both sides of the House. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Harlow (Robert Halfon) on securing the debate and moving the motion and I apologise to him for missing a few minutes of his speech initially. Let me take this chance also to congratulate the Backbench Business Committee and the 100,000 and more petitioners who have put this issue forward for debate today. Unlike many Opposition Members, I do not disparage the motion. I respect this as an avenue of democracy.

Even though average pump prices have fallen over the summer, there is little doubt that the cost of fuel remains a very difficult issue and a concern to many families and businesses across the country—and, indeed, to young people. The hon. Member for Wells (Tessa Munt) mentioned students and the Youth Parliament. Let me say for the record and for the hon. Members for Pontypridd and for East Lothian (Fiona O'Donnell), that both my primary and secondary schools were comprehensives. I fully respect the needs of all those across the whole of society.

[Elizabeth Truss]

Does the Minister agree that many people in rural Norfolk where she grew up will struggle to find an alternative to using their car, and that we need to reflect that in our policies?

[Miss Smith]

I welcome that point from my hon. Friend and near neighbour. I should like to reassure her constituents, as well as motorists up and down the land, whether they are in rural, suburban or urban areas, that this Government have listened to their concerns and will continue to do so. However, today is not the day to try to change taxes—that is for the Budget. Today is to listen.

From our first Budget last year—indeed, from when we were in Opposition, when we said, as the hon. Member for Pontypridd has pointed out, that we would introduce a fair fuel stabiliser—this coalition Government have listened and acted. In the Budget in March, we announced a £2 billion package to support motorists at a time of record pump prices. However, the Labour party, including the hon. Gentleman, whom I do not believe was there at 4 am when many of the rest of us were, failed to support that package, which was supported by the Federation of Small Businesses on behalf of, for example, van drivers.

Before I come to specific points raised in the motion, I will explain why the Government took the action that they did in the Budget.

Jobs and Growth

Elizabeth Truss Excerpts

Wednesday 12th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[Ed Balls]

I will return to the hon. Gentleman and his party in a moment. They gave the Government some very good advice 18 months ago, but unfortunately it was not heeded.

[Elizabeth Truss (South West Norfolk) (Con)]

The right hon. Gentleman has talked about infrastructure and the A11. Labour cancelled the road-building programme, whereas we are breaking new ground on the A11. In addition, so much red tape was put in place that we are now 83rd in the world for regulation. Does he think that is helping small businesses in our country?

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[Elizabeth Truss (South West Norfolk) (Con)]

We have heard eloquent speeches about the western debt crisis, but underlying that we have a competitiveness crisis, because the west has built up debt while the east has saved, and there is a gross imbalance.

The legacy of 13 years of Labour Government is one of red tape, meddling and taxation. We are now 83rd in the world for our burden of regulation and 94th for our burden of taxation. We are 28th in terms of infrastructure. In maths, we are 28th, and in science, we are 16th. We have the highest child care costs in the world. Labour made the labour market much more inflexible and made life much more difficult for working parents. In 1997, there were 100,000 child minders in the market; by 2010, that figure had reduced to 55,000 because of the burden of regulation on the sector. Child minders were the cheapest and most flexible way of providing child care. A lot of people have struggled to get child care because of the costs that Labour imposed on the market.

In education, we saw a denigration of traditional subjects such as maths, science and languages. Whereas those in the rest of the world were encouraging students to do those subjects, in Britain the numbers dropped, as did the quality. We have the lowest proportion of 16 to 18-year-olds studying maths in the OECD. Labour Members have talked about youth unemployment, but what about their appalling record in education, which means that many of our young people have left school without the skills they need to work in today’s workplace? Many employers care most about languages, yet the proportion of those studying languages at GCSE dropped from 79% to 44%. The shadow Chancellor used to be the Education Secretary; he did nothing in that job to improve the skills of young people.

Then we move on to infrastructure. Huge amounts of money were wasted on wasteful schemes such as Building Schools for the Future. Meanwhile, in 1997 Labour cancelled the road building programme, leaving roads such as the A11 undualled and the economies of counties such as Norfolk held back. Luckily we have a new Government who are putting in that infrastructure, and that work is starting next week.

The Opposition talk about living standards, but how are we to get our living standards up if we cannot produce goods competitively with the rest of the world? At the moment, we are buying more goods and services from those in the rest of the world than they are buying from us. That is a legacy of the previous Government’s supply-side policies.

What do we need to do? First, we need to reduce regulation. The Chancellor is absolutely right about lengthening the period for applying for unfair dismissal. We heard nothing from the Opposition about their view of this crucial issue; they have not made up their minds about employment regulation. I want parents, not bureaucrats, to be in charge of systems such as child care. We need to get rid of the bureaucracy that has raised the costs and limited the supply of child care. No new places have been provided since 2005, and that is a Labour party legacy.

We need a massive focus on improving maths and science in our schools. All the leading countries—Germany, Canada and many Asian countries—insist on rigorous subjects until the age of 16, including languages, history and sciences. The Opposition have done nothing but oppose the English baccalaureate that brings those subjects in.

It is going to be a long, hard slog to get our country back on track after the huge misuse of capital, the inflexibility and the regulation of our labour market of the past 13 years, but we must do it. Britain has to stop comparing itself just with other countries in Europe; we have to compare ourselves with rising countries across the world. We have to be humble enough to learn lessons from those countries, rather than just looking over our shoulders.

Oral Answers to Questions

Elizabeth Truss Excerpts

Tuesday 6th September 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hoban]

The hon. Gentleman should be aware that HMRC is writing to all new businesses set up in the last 12 months to ensure that they are aware of the scheme and to encourage them to apply for it. It is important that they do so, but this is just one of a series of measures that we have taken to ensure that more new jobs are created in the private sector. I would have thought that the hon. Gentleman welcomed the fact that over the last year there have been 500,000 net new jobs created in the private sector.

[Elizabeth Truss (South West Norfolk) (Con)]

9. What steps he is taking in respect of further supply-side reform of the UK economy.

[The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Mr Mark Hoban)]

“The Plan for Growth”, published alongside the Budget this year, sets out the Government’s plan to put the UK on a path to sustainable long-term economic growth. The second phase of the Government’s growth review will report later this year.

[Elizabeth Truss]

I thank the Minister for his answer. In the last decade the UK has fallen from 14th to 89th in terms of burden of regulation and from 14th to 95th in terms of extent of taxation. Does the Minister agree that we should be freeing up companies, rather than spending money that we do not have, to drive economic growth?

Oral Answers to Questions

Elizabeth Truss Excerpts

Tuesday 21st June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gauke]

I should be delighted to accept the right hon. Gentleman’s invitation. However, he will be aware that VAT is not chargeable on food, and that we have not raised fuel duty as the last Government did. You do not have to be a mastermind to know that.

[Elizabeth Truss (South West Norfolk) (Con)]

If the Government took longer to reduce the deficit and carried on spending, what would be the impact of that policy on inflation?

Amendment of the Law

Elizabeth Truss Excerpts

Thursday 24th March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Ed Balls]

I have studied the Chancellor’s new fiscal mandate. He says that he wants to get the national debt on a downward trend by the end of the Parliament. We had national debt on a downward trend in 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000 and 2001. Before the financial crisis hit, our national debt was lower than the debt we inherited from the Conservatives. [Interruption.] Hon. Members are barracking—but let me answer the hon. Gentleman, because at least he asked a serious question, unlike some of the nonsense we have heard from other hon. Members on the Government side of the House. The second part of the fiscal mandate is to get the budget, excluding investment—the current balance—back into balance by 2015. Yet that is the golden rule.

The golden rule is getting, over the cycle, the current budget, excluding investment, into balance. That never happened in the 1980s and the 1990s, but it happened for a sustained period under Labour. However, it is true that, throughout that period, we borrowed to invest. Of course we did. Our infrastructure—our schools and hospitals—had not been invested in for 20 or 30 years. Throughout the period before the financial crisis, national debt was below the level that we inherited from the previous Conservative Government.

[Elizabeth Truss (South West Norfolk) (Con)]

Is not it the case that in 1997 Labour cancelled the road-building programme, which would have been an investment in infrastructure?

[Ed Balls]

If I remember rightly, our mistake was not to reverse the cancellation of the road-building programme that we inherited from the previous Government. We inherited an environment Department that did not want to build roads and a transport Department that had given up asking for transport investment. When we came into government it took time to build schools, because in the previous 18 years so few new schools had been built that local authorities had lost the capacity and the ability to build them. That is the reality.