Children and Families Bill

Earl Attlee Excerpts

Wednesday 6th November 2013 Grand Committee

[Baroness Greengross (CB)]

My Lords, the purpose of my amendment is to specify the territorial limits to where councils are expected to fund arrangements. I declare an interest as a vice-president of the Local Government Association. Protecting children and helping to provide for their future is, I am sure we all agree, one of the most important things that councils do. I therefore wholeheartedly welcome most of the provisions in the Bill, but I am concerned about certain measures in Clause 58 that would enable local authorities to arrange special educational provision for a young person with an EHC plan outside England and Wales. This clause enables local authorities to make provision in an institution that specialises in providing for special educational needs and gives them power to pay for or contribute to the costs of the child or young person who attends such an institution, which might, quite rightly, include travelling and accommodation costs for someone to accompany the child or young person.

This clause gives local authorities the power—not a duty—to make this provision, but demands on resources at the moment, as we all know, make it difficult to envisage the circumstances when local authorities would realistically be able to arrange special educational provision outside the UK. I am concerned that, without the extent of this clause being specified, local authorities might be expected to arrange provision in countries outside the United Kingdom. It might well be in the United States, for example, or in the Middle East, and this would be extremely expensive for a local authority to provide. It would certainly raise expectations that the local authority would do so. Parents may take cases to appeal if my amendment is not accepted. The amendment would provide for special educational needs provision to be arranged elsewhere in the United Kingdom, but not in other countries. I think this is reasonable, and I beg to move.

[Earl Attlee (Con)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Greengross, for moving her amendment, although initially I thought it did not have the effect that she desired. Children and young people should be placed in the right setting to meet their needs. It is right that if the appropriate setting is in either Scotland or Northern Ireland, local authorities should have the power to place children and young people there and meet or contribute to the costs of the placement. The Bill as drafted would allow for such placements.

In line with what the noble Baroness said, Clause 58 is drafted in the way it is, mentioning England and Wales in particular, because the Bill covers England and Wales. Clause 58 allows local authorities to place children and young people with EHC plans anywhere else in the world, including Scotland and Northern Ireland, and to meet or contribute to the costs of the placement. I acknowledge the noble Baroness’s point about the costs, but they can still do it. There are a very few cases where children have been placed outside the UK. Unfortunately, the effect of the noble Baroness’ amendment would be that local authorities would still be able to place children and young people in schools or colleges in Scotland and Northern Ireland but they would not be able to pay or contribute towards the costs.

On the noble Baroness’s aim of specifying the limits of what local authorities are expected to provide, she is right to seek to clarify the extent of local authorities’ responsibilities for arranging provision outside the UK. As she said, this is a power, not a duty. It replicates the current arrangement and does not place a demand on local authorities. I hope, with that explanation, the noble Baroness will feel able to withdraw her amendment in due course.

[Baroness Eaton (Con)]

I found it interesting that the Minister said that very few people use the opportunity to be placed abroad. If it is on the face of the Bill to this extent, it might become more attractive to want to go further afield. It might become a fashion to seek support from other countries, where sometimes we hear of innovative things that are not necessarily proven. I would be seriously concerned—knowing that local authorities could potentially have huge black holes in years to come—about how on earth this will be funded. Even if it involves only a few children, it will be a sizeable bill. When local authorities are in danger of going bankrupt in some places, it is inappropriate to impose an open-ended commitment on them. I realise that it is an option—it is not something that is being forced on local authorities—but it will cause huge issues when people are refused the opportunity if they wish for it.

[Earl Attlee]

I think it would be helpful if I reminded the Committee that provisions in the Bill do not change any arrangements. If it is found to be cost-effective to send a child overseas as part of the EHC plan, no doubt that will be done. However, as the noble Baroness explained, that will be an extremely expensive option and therefore will be most unusual.

[Baroness Howe of Idlicote (CB)]

My Lords, I must say I find this extremely confusing. I share the concern that the result of it all may be that the opposite happens: that is, that there is rather more demand for this activity once it looks as if this sort of arrangement could be made almost around the world. Do noble Lords think that it might be more sensible to devote a little more time to this issue and perhaps have a meeting with the experts so that the right wording is put into the Bill? I do not know whether others feel as I do, but this is a bit confusing.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I am always delighted to have meetings with noble Lords and I am sure that my noble friend Lady Northover would be delighted to have a meeting on this and perhaps look into it in a bit more detail.

[Baroness Greengross]

I thank the Minister for his reply and thank noble Lords who supported the measure and understood what I was trying to say about raising expectations and clever lawyers appealing decisions, which might lead to very difficult situations for local authorities. I share the view that local authorities should do their very best to obtain the correct provision, certainly as regards Scotland. The amendment would make it much simpler to envisage Scotland being part of this. I would be happy to meet the Minister and colleagues who feel as I do. The matter just needs clarifying and limiting. In current circumstances, I should not like to see a local authority being almost put on trial for something that, realistically, it is not expected to be able to do, much as it might wish to. I thank the noble Earl for his reply.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, as I said, I would be delighted to have a meeting. However, it may help the Committee if I point out that this is a provision in the 1996 Act, so we do not think that it will increase demand from this point.

[Baroness Greengross]

I thank the Minister, but I would still like to take up the offer of a meeting. On that basis, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Low of Dalston]

I entirely agree with the noble Lord, Lord Storey, and the noble Baroness, Lady Howarth, about the name. It is not the name that is important. What is important is that we have a graduated approach and that we have some way of institutionalising that so that there can be no doubt that that is the system being operated.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I am grateful to all noble Lords who have spoken in this debate. Turning to the suggestion made by the noble Lord, Lord Touhig, I am a new kid in this school, but I intend to survive the next reshuffle, whenever that may be.

The amendments in this group all seek in different ways to amend Clause 62, which puts a duty on appropriate authorities to use their best endeavours to secure special educational provision. It is clearly a very important issue.

In answer to my noble friend Lord Addington, I have not heard too much from him, and I doubt I ever will. I suffered from mild dyslexia when I was young, as did my father. I struggled with maths and English, but in engineering workshop theory and practice, I got a grade 1 assessment and O-level, whereas in maths I got 9 double-minus.

On Amendment 192, the noble Lords, Lord Low and Lord Touhig, along with my noble friend Lady Sharp are absolutely correct to emphasise that schools should match the support that they provide to the child’s needs. This is known in practice as a graduated approach, and we are going to keep it. I agree with my noble friend Lord Storey and the noble Baroness, Lady Howarth, that it is not so much the name that matters but the approach.

The new SEN code of practice replaces school action and school action plus with a simplified approach to SEN support. This focuses attention on the individual needs of the child, requires schools to review how effective their support is and involves parents much more closely. This is exactly the sort of graduated approach that I believe the noble Lord, Lord Low, and other noble Lords are calling for.

The noble Lord, Lord Low, in effect asked for evidence of the need for change. We are making these changes because, as Ofsted’s 2010 review of SEN found,

“current systems focus too much on whether pupils receive additional services, and too little on the impact of their support”.

In the other place, my honourable friend the Minister for Children and Families made a commitment that, while developing the code, we would refine these proposals through work with a broad range of experts. Since then, officials within the Department for Education have met academics, school leaders, members of the Special Educational Consortium and more than 300 SENCOs. We are extremely grateful to all those who gave their time. As a result, I believe that the current code provides a much clearer framework for schools, informed by those working directly with pupils.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Addington]

My Lords, perhaps I may clarify the situation. It is the functional skills test and, before it, the key skills tests that are the problem. There has always been a much better attitude towards GCSEs, A-levels and degrees. I should draw noble Lords’ attention to my interest as chairman of a firm that provides some of the kit for the DSA, which for a dyslexic is voice-operated technology—the stuff that I use that was initially provided by the House of Lords authorities. So there is an establishment. The problem is with this one set of exams, which are crucial to getting this qualification, in which the dyslexics—who are 10% of the population in this country and 20% in America—should be overrepresented. Even if this would be appropriate for only half those dyslexics, that would still represent a hell of a lot of people.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I have already said that I am not entirely satisfied and have some sympathy with the points made by my noble friend Lord Addington. However, I have not finished my speech and have not reached the point about apprentices.

I return to what we have achieved already. Personally, I was not aware that such welcome advances have been made. I hope I have convinced my noble friend Lord Addington that there is not a legislative gap in relation to such technology, and that there is good progress and continued willingness to work together to eliminate the practical and technical issues that remain.

Amendments 190 and 194 taken together would require apprenticeship providers to use their best endeavours to secure support for SEN. I recognise the concern of my noble friends Lord Addington, Lady Sharp and Lady Walmsley that young people with SEN may need additional support during their apprenticeship. I should like to make it clear that young people with EHC plans are able to attain their plans during their apprenticeship with all the support that they set out. Where a local authority has agreed with a young person who has an EHC plan that an apprenticeship is the best option, arrangements to support them should be built in at the point at which the place is commissioned. For example, if the local authority commissions a place from a private apprenticeship provider, the terms of that contract should include any SEN provision required. If that is not possible, the local authority should not place them there.

[Baroness Sharp of Guildford]

I apologise for interrupting the Minister and thank him for giving way. This particular problem does not apply to the training processes as such; it applies only to the passing of a particular group of tests known as the functional literacy and mathematical skills tests. It is a narrow problem, and one that my noble friend Lord Addington has identified and kept banging away on for a very long time. It should not be impossible for help to be provided during those tests. At the moment, those who have dyslexia are not allowed to have someone act as a reader to them for the tests. That is narrowly the problem.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I am grateful for the noble Baroness’s comments. I was asked about support for apprenticeships. We amended the Bill following pre-legislative scrutiny to ensure that young people on an apprenticeship could receive support through an EHC plan. This puts people in apprenticeships on the same footing as those in further education.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss]

I apologise for interrupting the Minister yet again, but we are dealing with an extremely limited point. It is not support during the apprenticeship that we are talking about; it is support to complete the apprenticeship. That is not there at the moment; there is a gap and that is where the problem is. I am not sure that the Minister—with so many of us in this Room—has quite understood the particular problem about which we are concerned and which the noble Lord, Lord Addington, has so very well set out.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, when I have finished my speech, the best thing all of us can do is to read Hansard carefully, but I am not deaf to your Lordships’ concerns. On the other hand, I am not an expert on them either. The noble Lord, Lord Addington, and the noble Baroness, Lady Howarth, suggested that apprenticeships are not covered by the Joint Council for Qualifications’ guidance. As a point of clarity, the JCQ includes functional skills in its guidance. I or my noble friend Lady Northover would be happy to meet noble Lords to follow up on this.

In addition, the Equality Act 2010 applies to all apprenticeship training providers and employers. They are required to make reasonable adjustments for disabled young people during their apprenticeships. We will promote the availability of reasonable adjustments in apprenticeships more widely, including through the National Apprenticeship Service. We are also currently considering how we can improve data collection to monitor how effectively we are supporting young people with SEN and disabilities in apprenticeships.

More widely, Clause 27 states that a local authority is under a general duty to keep the special education provision in its area under review and consider the extent to which that provision is sufficient to meet the needs of young people concerned. In doing so, it must consult proprietors of post-16 institutions, which would include private training and apprenticeship providers.

Given these existing duties, the additional measures in the amendment are unnecessary. In addition, they risk having a negative impact on apprenticeship providers, including small businesses. There are currently 100,000 employers in more than 160,000 workplaces offering apprenticeships. Most employers use a training provider to help deliver the apprenticeships, and the majority of providers are private organisations.

My noble friend Lord Addington asked me about the requirement to achieve English and maths qualifications to be removed from apprenticeship completion conditions.

[Lord Addington]

My Lords, I did not ask for that: I asked for there to be assisted technology. I have conveyed all the information to everyone in this Room by talking into a microphone that is attached to my computer, which is technology that is now two decades old. This can be done cheaply and efficiently. There is just no argument about that. Voice-to-text technology is well established and used everywhere else. If you use a computer as your primary form of communication, it is cheap and available. It is easy to train. I do not know how many dozen people do so but everyone you have talked about can use that technology. This is not about removing qualifications but proving that your communication skills can be established.

I have just reached the point where I need glasses because my arms got a little too short. They are of technical assistance and may well be more expensive than the software that I am talking about. It is a ridiculous thing to say: the technology merely allows you to access things in a different way.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I understand how passionate my noble friend is about the use of technology. I am not opposing it. I applaud the development of these technologies. But if we were to introduce an additional duty, it would increase the regulatory burden on many hundreds of private businesses, which goes directly against the considerable efforts of the Government to reduce red tape for businesses. Finally, good practice guidance from the 16 Diversity in Apprenticeship pilots is now available on the National Apprenticeship Service website. The Government commissioned an independent report on creating an inclusive apprenticeship offer, and their response, the apprenticeships action plan for learners with learning difficulties and/or disabilities, is currently being implemented. Action includes: use of the Equality Act definition of “disabled” for the apprenticeship offer, employers being able to signal willingness to recruit more disabled apprentices on apprenticeship vacancies online using the “two ticks” scheme, which guarantees disabled applicants an interview if they meet the basic requirements for the role; and work to improve the reporting of data.

The National Apprenticeship Service is offering additional one-to-one support for young people who have been unable to secure an apprenticeship due to competition for a place. The DWP is working with the Joint Apprenticeship Unit to promote additional support, such as access to work payments.

Ministers are not deaf. We have listened to what noble Lords have said in Committee. We will look very carefully and consider what steps we need to take to meet the concerns of noble Lords. Primarily, we will have further meetings outside the Committee to look at this further but I suggest that government officials and noble Lords carefully read Hansard to see where we are. I hope that noble Lords will not press their amendments at the appropriate points.

[Baroness Walmsley]

My Lords, I have a quick word to say before my noble friend withdraws the amendment. The Minister has obviously been given a very long brief by officials but I can probably say that the Committee is not bamboozled by it. I do not think that that was the intention and I have been reassured by hearing about how much support can be given to young people with dyslexia as they go through their apprenticeships. But the point that my noble friend is making is that all this is to no avail if they cannot get that piece of paper at the end of the course. The fact is that without some technical help with their written English to enable them to express what they have learnt, those young people cannot get that piece of paper, and that means they cannot move on. It really is as narrow as that. All that good stuff that the Minister has been talking about is welcome but does not cover getting the piece of paper—in other words, passing the functional skills test. That is the problem. There have been lots of meetings but no progress has been made. I appeal to my noble friend to have further meetings with those of us who are concerned about this, if that is what is needed, but something has to be done. This issue is much narrower than what is in the vast majority of my noble friend’s briefing.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Greengross]

My Lords, I shall speak to Amendments 198 to 205, that is, all the amendments in this group. One of the reasons I am particularly interested in this issue is because I have been heavily involved in the Care Bill from the pre-legislative scrutiny stage to the present. One of our concerns throughout that consideration was for children and young people who are just emerging from childhood, so to speak, and get caught in the not quite adult/not quite child time of life when the system sometimes fails them. Therefore, it is important to ensure that we get things right, in particular in relation to special educational needs and education, health and care plans.

These amendments would ensure that other organisations that might need to be involved in this area would be responsible for delivering the services described in the plans and for making sure that they actually do what they say. For many, schools will be the main day-to-day contact point but colleges will often be involved as well. At present, a number of provisions apply to schools but not to colleges, all types of alternative provision and pupil referral units. My amendment would place the same duty on FE colleges as on all types of maintained school settings.

Clause 64 places a duty on schools to inform the parents of a child without an EHC plan and/or the young person without an EHC plan when special education provision is being made for them. Without these amendments, young people up to the age of 18 who do not have EHC plans who attend school and/or their parents will be entitled to be informed, but young people of the same age who are students at FE colleges will not. We have to remember that from September 2013 young people will be able to attend FE colleges from the age of 14, so this issue applies to a number of young people.

I understand that the Government are somewhat reluctant to place any additional duties on FE colleges, but my concern is primarily with the children and young people concerned rather than with the colleges, I am afraid. If they are to be at the heart of the new system, the information provided should not vary in this way according to the type of institution that they happen to attend.

Clause 65 places a duty on schools to prepare a report containing special educational needs information. This information concerns the implementation of the governing body’s or proprietor’s policy for pupils at the school with special educational needs, the arrangements for the admission of disabled pupils to the school, the steps taken to prevent less favourable treatment of disabled pupils, the facilities provided to assist access to the school by disabled pupils and the accessibility plan which schools must publish under the Equality Act 2010. In a similar way to Clause 64, the amendments, which are very straightforward, would simply place the same duty on FE colleges or similar institutions as on maintained schools. I beg to move.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I shall respond to the noble Baroness, Lady Greengross, who moved the amendment on further education institutions. I thank her for explaining her intention behind them.

I fully agree with the noble Baroness on the importance of special educational provision in colleges, and I am pleased to have this opportunity to explain why we have not extended the duties in Clauses 64 and 65 to the further education sector and to reassure noble Lords that this does not undermine the 0 to 25 coverage of the new system, which has been warmly welcomed by many during the debate on this part.

The Bill creates a reformed SEN system spanning the age range from 0 to 25 and extends important new rights to young people. Within that context, we must acknowledge that settings are not all the same. Schools and FE colleges differ in the experience that they offer their students, in their size, the breadth of their provision and in the age range they cater for.

I turn first to Amendments 198, 199, 200 and 201 which would place a new duty on FE institutions to tell young people if they are receiving special educational provision. It might be helpful to clarify for the Committee that the duty on schools in Clause 64 was originally put in place to ensure that parents were made aware when their child was in receipt of special educational provision. As noble Lords will know, this Bill gives new rights to young people once they are over compulsory school age—generally speaking those who are 16 and over—rather than their parents. Any new duty on colleges would therefore require them to inform the young person that they are in receipt of special educational provision and not their parents.

Young people in further education typically follow more tailored, individual study programmes than they had at school. Colleges will discuss with young people directly possible study programmes and the support they will need to complete those programmes. Discussion about that support may or may not include an explicit reference to SEN.

The noble Baroness talked about young people not quite being children and not quite being adults. For some young people, taking up a place at college is an opportunity for a fresh start, particularly if they felt a failure at school. The label “SEN” might be unhelpful in some circumstances, and the college will want to be sensitive about handling this. The Association of Colleges has expressed concern about this amendment, saying that it,

“risks treating young people, many of whom are sensitive about their educational achievement, the same as children”.

It goes on to say that,

“colleges go to great lengths to handle such issues sensitively by providing an initial assessment for all students to provide education that fits people’s individual needs”.

The AoC is also concerned about the sheer numbers involved. For example, one college in Essex reported to the AoC that it considers that 1,800 of its students are receiving special educational provision. That is a very significant additional burden on colleges.

The noble Baroness suggested that Clause 64 creates an anomaly. Young people in FE colleges do not need to be told that they are receiving SEN provision, but young people in sixth form must be told. She suggested that that was unfair. I understand the noble Baroness’s point in that regard. The Bill creates a distinction between young people in school and young people in college. There are two reasons why that is so. First, in the further education environment, a young person is more likely to find the label “SEN” unhelpful, and colleges are used to using their professional judgment about labelling support.

Secondly, we have sought not to place duties unnecessarily on the further education sector. School sixth forms are already under a duty to inform parents where a child is receiving special educational provision. Clause 64 changes this duty so that they must inform the young person directly.

I now turn to Amendments 202 to 205, relating to the requirement for FE institutions to publish an SEN information report setting out information about their policies for children with SEN and disabilities. Clause 65 replaces Sections 317(5) and 317(6) of the Education Act 1996 and is a well established duty on schools, but there are no existing similar legal duties on colleges, and we do not believe it is necessary to legislate for a new duty in this area. As the Association of Colleges points out, this information is readily available, as colleges already produce it for their websites and prospectuses. It is also the case that colleges will have to produce this information as part of their local offer. Colleges are under a duty in this Bill to co-operate with local authorities to produce a local offer. This includes details of their approach to teaching young people with SEN, how they adapt their curriculum and learning environment, how facilities can be accessed and what support is available to young people with SEN. More detail is set out in Schedule 1 to the draft local offer regulations.

I hope I have provided the assurance that the noble Baroness seeks that we have good reasons not to place those additional duties on further education colleges. I hope she will feel able to withdraw her amendment.

[Baroness Greengross]

My Lords, I thank the noble Earl for his very considered reply, but I am not really happy with it because, as I mentioned, some of these young people will be 14. Parents with children with special educational needs are not usually immune from wanting to continue to know what is going on and to be reassured that their children—or young people—are having the tailored type of education and healthcare that they need. Therefore, I will have to take this back, look at it again with the local authorities that are also worried about this, and come back on Report.

[Earl Attlee]

I have a little bit more to add. Young people aged 14 to 15 who go to college may be doing so for a different reason, but I would be happy to think about what more we could say in the code of practice about the particular consideration that further education colleges should give to students in this age bracket, including the importance of keeping the family informed.

[Baroness Greengross]

That is very helpful, and I thank the noble Earl. I will still take this back and consider in detail all the points that he raised. In the mean time, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for moving this amendment on the importance of inspection and review of the new system. Before turning to the specifics of the amendment tabled by my noble friend Lady Walmsley, it would be helpful to set out some of the details of the inspection and review system.

Local authorities and clinical commissioning groups are already held to account for the services that they provide in a number of ways. Ultimately, local authorities are accountable to local people through the ballot box. Clinical commissioning groups are held accountable by NHS England, which has powers of intervention where a clinical commissioning group has failed, or is at risk of failing, to meet its statutory obligations. The local health and well-being board also provides a local focus for accountability to the local population.

Local authorities must consult on the local offer and publish comments received from children and young people with SEN and the parents of children with SEN, which is another way of encouraging the local population to hold their local authorities to account for implementing the local offer. It is important for noble Lords to note that local authorities and clinical commissioning groups can already be held to account for their actions through individual complaints. The local offer will make the local complaint routes more transparent, so that families will be clearer about how to complain if they need to do so.

However, I understand the case for inspection, given the importance of these reforms. I turn now to Amendment 215, which, as set out by my noble friend, requires Ofsted to inspect local authorities on their commissioning and delivery of specialist SEN services. The SEN reforms are new. We therefore need to baseline best practice and use that analysis to identify whether a full inspection regime is necessary. On that basis, as my noble friend Lady Northover said in a previous debate, we asked Ofsted to undertake a study of how local authorities are preparing to implement the SEN reforms, working with the Care Quality Commission as they need. The work will consider how effectively local authorities and clinical commissioning groups will fulfil their responsibilities and how they will monitor improved outcomes for children and young people who have special educational needs. This study will help us to identify whether a new inspection framework would add value, and I or my noble friend would be content to discuss this further with noble Lords, if that would be useful. I think my noble friend Lady Northover has already made that offer. On that basis, I hope that my noble friend will feel able to withdraw her amendment.

[Baroness Walmsley]

I thank my noble friend for his reply. Obviously, we all look forward with great anticipation to the study that he referred to, and I think that for the moment, we will just have to be satisfied with that. We will be looking for particular focus on low-incidence needs and how they will be covered. I accept that it is a good idea to get a baseline of best practice and then see how it rolls forward from there, but Ofsted is the expert in this so I look forward to hearing what it has to say about it. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Howe, for moving this amendment and for continuing to raise this issue. In tabling this amendment, she is highlighting a specific need for local authorities to secure provision to support parents of children with a hearing loss. I think that the noble Baroness spoke in a recent debate in the Chamber when I was supporting my noble friend Lady Jolly. I agree that where there are identified needs, local authorities should provide communication support for parents of children with hearing loss. I recognise the importance of early access to language to help children to learn and to thrive, and it is vital that parents and families get support to communicate in those early months.

The noble Earl, Lord Listowel, mentioned the importance of early bonding between the child and the parents. I am not trained in social work, but even I understand that that is extremely important to the development of the child. If that does not take place, the development of the child will be permanently set back.

As noble Lords will note, the Bill already places duties on local authorities to identify, assess and secure special educational provision for all children and young people with SEN. This could include sign language support for those who need it. During the recent debate that I referred to, one of the issues raised was sign language training for parents, of which more later. Your Lordships may find it useful to refer to the Hansard of that debate, because I found the response of my noble friend Lady Jolly very interesting.

The Bill also requires local authorities to set out a local offer of the support that is available so that parents are aware of what is available to them. Clause 32 requires local authorities to provide parents of children and young people with advice and information about matters relating to special educational needs, which will include parents of deaf children. However, it is for local authorities to decide the appropriate way to structure that support. I can see that the noble Baroness is not entirely content with that statement.

There is already support available to assist parents of deaf children. Through teachers of the deaf and sensory support services, local authorities are providing support to parents of deaf children on communicating with their child, which can include sign language training. The Department for Education is working with the voluntary and community sector to enable local areas to benchmark the support that they provide to deaf children and to access tools and information on the most effective approaches. In particular, we are funding the National Sensory Impairment Partnership, NatSIP, to carry out a benchmarking exercise and develop an outcome framework for local authorities to assess how well they are supporting deaf pupils. They will work with sensory support services across the country in the development of a local offer for deaf, blind and multi-sensory impaired children and their parents. The noble Earl, Lord Listowel, talked about multiple sensory impairment.

We funded the development of an early support guide for parents of deaf children and the I-Sign project to develop a family sign language programme. We are funding the I-Sign consortium to build on the learning from this project and improve the availability of sign language support for parents and families. As part of this, I-Sign is testing the use of personal budgets to fund sign language.

As I have already explained, there is already support available for parents of deaf children in addition to the duties in the Bill. It will not be appropriate to have specific duties relating to specific types of need and support as this would lead to confusion and gives precedence to particular types of need over other, equally pressing types of need. With this reassurance I hope that the noble Baroness will feel able to withdraw her amendment.

[Baroness Howe of Idlicote]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his considered reply. I am not entirely happy with what he said, although I was not expecting to hear a great deal of detail. He gave some moments of hope with the I-Sign consortium being funded but, as we all know, that will go only some way. I thank the noble Baronesses, Lady Wilkins and Lady Walmsley, and my noble friend Lord Listowel for their brief contributions. I cannot say that I am not going to bring the amendment back because I and others will want to think about whether there is a better way of getting rather more out of this section. This is such an important group, and their basic human rights are at least as important as everybody else’s. We need to ensure that they have the proper proportion of whatever resources are available. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

--- Later in debate ---

Amendments 219 to 223 not moved.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I think this may be a convenient time to adjourn the Committee.

Committee adjourned at 7.53 pm.