European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill

Debate between David Jones and Albert Owen

3rd reading: House of Commons & Committee: 3rd sitting: House of Commons & Report stage: House of Commons
Wednesday 8th February 2017 Commons Chamber

[Albert Owen]

My right hon. Friend is right to press the Minister, because we have had some very thin talk on this important matter. The industry wants this working party, and it wants Government to give some clear assurances. I make my appeal to the Minister, through my right hon. Friend, to do that tonight. I am sure that he is listening.

[The Minister of State, Department for Exiting the European Union (Mr David Jones)]

indicated assent.

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[Albert Owen]

It is always interesting to follow the right hon. Member for Hitchin and Harpenden (Mr Lilley). I will concentrate my brief remarks on Euratom. As the Minister and the Committee will know, its principal goals are the promotion of research and the dissemination of information; the establishment of safety standards; and facilitating investment. It also governs the supply of ore and nuclear fuels.

Euratom establishes a nuclear common market. The Eurosceptics always used to say, “We want to be in the common market,” yet their decision is to pull out of it. I believe that the Government want to retain the principal goals, and they stated on the publication of the Bill that we are leaving Euratom only because of legally binding arrangements, but that is debatable—I have seen conflicting legal advice—and cynics suggest that it is more to do with the European Court of Justice.

The Government say that they support Euratom and want us to continue both to co-operate and to have the highest standards. The hon. Member for Wells (James Heappey) is absolutely right that we are world leaders on nuclear standards, but in co-operation with other countries, which is why it is so important to keep Euratom, the umbrella body.

The purpose of new clause 192, which is supported by the industry and industry bodies, is to continue co-operation and have greater certainty. I have raised this matter with the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, who was very courteous. He said he had met the industry and was sure that we will be able to continue outside Euratom, but that is not what the industry in general believes. The hon. Member for Henley (John Howell) said that the management of the JET energy research programme in Oxfordshire did not want the proposal, but the workforce have lobbied me in great numbers through the union, saying that there are risks if we pull out.

Access to information and data sharing are important. We will be way behind if we pull out. Companies in the industry need to plan in advance; they need that certainty. Euratom deals with nuclear co-operation with the United States. It is ironic that although we are talking about coming out of Europe and trading with the United States, we need to be part of Euratom to get agreements to move fuels to the US, Japan, Canada and other countries. Renegotiating will take an awful long time.

Ideally, the Minister would retain the UK’s membership of Euratom even if we left the European Union. If the Government proceed to give notice to withdraw, we must have an agreement on transitional arrangements. We must also have sufficient time to negotiate and complete new arrangements with EU states and third countries such as the US, Japan and Canada. If in two years an agreement cannot be reached, the UK should remain a member. Our standing in the nuclear industry is at stake, as are jobs and our reputation as a major country in nuclear research. I hope that the Minister takes that on board.

[Mr David Jones]

I have listened to a large number of very important contributions this afternoon from right hon. and hon. Members, and a large number of proposals have been considered. I hope that the Committee will forgive me if I say that I prefer—

English Votes for English Laws and North Wales

Debate between David Jones and Albert Owen

Wednesday 1st July 2015 Westminster Hall

[Albert Owen]

I appreciate that intervention from a fellow islander. I was in Jersey yesterday, watching the Island games and cheering Isle of Wight on. The hon. Gentleman makes a serious point. We need a proper convention to consider these issues, because some of the arguments have not been dealt with in great detail in this House. The knee-jerk reaction of having English laws and English votes is not the answer; it is a sticking plaster and it will cause more problems than it will create solutions.

[Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con)]

Is the hon. Gentleman acknowledging that the devolution settlement established in 1999—the creature of the Labour party, of course—is grievously flawed?

[Albert Owen]

The call for devolution in the ’70s was so strong that there had to be a reaction to it from the UK Parliament. I mentioned in my opening remarks that there should have been a more balanced version, with more English devolution, at the time it was introduced. I am sure that the right hon. Gentleman would have supported that, because he is now a pragmatist and in favour of the current constitutional settlement.

[Mr Jones]

Yes, but did not the people of the north-east reject devolution to the English regions when it was put to them?

[Albert Owen]

Obviously, that happened. If it had been done at the same time as the London Mayor, and perhaps at the same time as another region, perhaps others would have clamoured for it later. I accept that that was an error. However, the right hon. Gentleman’s party, which opposed devolution at that time, has now wholly embraced it, so the Labour party has done his party a favour, moving it forward in many ways. The right hon. Gentleman, a pragmatic Secretary of State who wanted more devolution for Wales and for the rest of the UK, is evidence of that. I welcome the fact that many Conservative Members of Parliament have taken this journey, but I want the direction of the journey to be clear in future.

--- Later in debate ---

[Albert Owen]

The hon. Lady was a North Wales Member of the Assembly. My criticism is not just about the institution or the Government in Cardiff Bay. North Wales Assembly Members should be making a stronger case for North Wales. That is what I am doing today, as a North Wales MP. I will argue, when I have a chance to develop my argument without interventions, that there needs to be representation from North Wales MPs in this debate.

The debate has gone a bit sterile post-Scottish referendum, partly because of the Prime Minister’s reaction on the morning after the referendum result, which I very much welcomed. Instead of being statesmanlike and trying to strengthen the Union after the referendum result, he chose to talk about one part of the UK: England. The Union is not strengthened by isolating and talking about one part of it. Unionism must be about the whole UK. That is why I am arguing for North Wales MPs having a strong voice and being equal in this UK Parliament. We are all elected under the same franchise and we should be allowed to debate and vote on the same rules and regulations that are before this House, and there should be no exemption. No Parliament will succeed if it has two tiers of representative. We all have the same mandate and we are here to represent our constituents and the UK, but we will not be able to do that if we go down the avenue proposed by the Conservatives. That is the gist of my argument. I will put some detail on it in the next seven or eight minutes, after which I will sit down and allow other hon. Members to contribute.

Devolution has to be more than just a theory: it has to be practical and real because it concerns services, such as health and transport, which are often provided east-west in the UK. Most decisions on transport that affect Wales are made here in the Department for Transport. The debacle over the west coast main line affects not just my constituents, but the whole of North Wales and the whole of England. It is an interconnector and a corridor between Ireland and London, going through North Wales. It would be crazy for North Wales MPs not to have a say or not to be able to question the Secretary of State when big decisions go wrong, such as when millions of pounds of taxpayers’ money is squandered by errors in the franchise process. That affects my constituency and services to my constituents. I travel on that train every week, and I know the composition of its passengers: they are from North-West Wales, other parts of North Wales and England. We need to have a voice in this House when we debate such issues, so that we can express our views and vote on big decisions that affect our constituents.

[Mr David Jones]

I am extremely grateful to the hon. Gentleman, who is being very kind in giving way. While I agree with the thrust of his argument, is he not choosing a rather bad example, because railway services are not a devolved issue?

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[Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con)]

It is a huge pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Crausby. I commend the hon. Member for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen) on securing an important and timely debate. It is timely, of course, because we are considering a lot of constitutional legislation, including the Scotland Bill, which continues in Committee today, and the proposed procedural changes to the rules of the House.

I agree with most of the thrust of the hon. Gentleman’s argument. That said, the issue of fairness must also be considered. It cannot be fair that a Member of Parliament for a part of the country in which powers are totally devolved should have a vote—possibly a determinative vote—on matters that do not affect either that Member or their constituents. I am pleased to follow the hon. Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston (Justin Madders), who illustrated the cross-border problems quite nicely. He neatly demonstrated the frustration of English Members that they often have no voice in any democratic assembly on issues concerning them and their constituents. That cannot be right.

The problem is that the devolution settlement imposed in 1999 is frankly not fit for purpose. It does not work; it is a lash-up and it needs to be revisited. The hon. Member for Ynys Môn talked about a constitutional convention, but the fact that he had to do so shows that he also recognises that what was put in place by the Blair Government back in 1999 is not fit for purpose and ill serves the people of both England and Wales.

[Albert Owen]

I will be brief, as I have already spoken at some length. As Secretary of State for Wales, the right hon. Gentleman’s answer to the problem was more devolution. He just added to the devolution settlement. We need a constitutional convention so that we can pause to consider and reflect on the matter at a UK level.

[Mr Jones]

I certainly believed in more devolution of taxing powers and was a firm advocate of that. The hon. Gentleman makes a different point, which I will focus on in the time remaining.

What we have in North Wales, as the hon. Gentleman rightly says, is a wholly different state of affairs from that which prevails in South Wales. The Welsh devolution settlement was put in place by South Wales politicians who did not really understand North Wales, did not understand that North Wales is part of the north-west economic region, did not understand the need of North Wales patients to access medical treatment in the north-west of England and did not understand the historical and cultural ties that bind the people of the north-west of England and North Wales.

I will support the procedural changes to the rules of the House provided that they fully reflect the interests of the people of North Wales and their representatives. I will join the hon. Member for Ynys Môn in pressing for that when the matter is considered by the House. More importantly, the Wales Bill to be introduced later in this Parliament presents an opportunity to address the whole issue of devolution and to sort out the problems that were identified by the hon. Members for Ellesmere Port and Neston and for Ynys Môn. We should take the opportunity to try to improve a devolution settlement that is unfit for purpose.

North Wales Economic Infrastructure

Debate between David Jones and Albert Owen

Wednesday 25th March 2015 Westminster Hall

[Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab)]

It is always a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Roger.

I want to continue talking on themes raised by hon. Members, adding a north-west Wales dimension. I am not only the most western Member here but the only Member from north-west Wales, and indeed the only Member from the centre of north Wales and north-east Wales. I bring to the debate not just north Wales matters, but will mention the important links with the Republic of Ireland.

I want to create a north Wales powerhouse, along with members of my party with whom I have been working during the past few weeks. We want north-west Wales to be not just a place that people go through on the way to Ireland but a location where manufacturing, research and development and various other activities take place. We want north Wales to be the place to visit and the place to work and live.

The creation of a north Wales powerhouse has already begun. As my hon. Friend the Member for Alyn and Deeside (Mark Tami) said—I congratulate him on securing this debate—Airbus, which is based in north Wales, is one of the flagship companies, not just in north Wales and not just in Wales, but in the UK and Europe. We must be proud of that. The Horizon project on Anglesey at Wylfa Newydd, which began in 2009, is moving forward and is a business investment in north-west Wales equivalent to the London Olympics in terms of cash. We have heard about Gwynt y Môr, a successful offshore project, and the Deeside enterprise zone. All these projects are helping create what I consider to be a north Wales powerhouse.

We have made great progress on transportation, as has been said. 1997 was a good year for Anglesey, because it was the year the dualling of the A55 across the Isle of Anglesey began. I had one disagreement with the late Sir Wyn Roberts, an Anglesey man, about whether the previous Government had completed the A55 across north Wales. It stopped in Llan- fairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch, in my constituency. It is the village with the biggest name, but it is also a village with a big heart and a pioneering area of the UK, where the first Women’s Institute was established 100 years ago this year. The Women’s Institute is an institution born and raised on Anglesey. I am proud of that. The serious point about the A55 not being dualled is that the economy of Anglesey, and the west of north-west Wales, was hampered for some 10 to 15 years until that road was linked.

The link to Ireland is important. Members of Parliament would not be here, and we would not have the infrastructure, if it was not for Irish Members of Parliament lobbying for the old A5 from Dublin to London. When I talk about transportation in this country, I talk about linking the great cities of Dublin and London via the north Wales corridor.

I want to concentrate on three big issues: transport, energy and tourism. These three big sectors of industry need a big, modern 21st-century infrastructure. Anglesey is a strategic location. I will not let anybody say we are on the periphery because, looking at the map of the UK, Anglesey is the heart of the British Isles. It is an equal distance from Anglesey to Scotland, Wales, northern England and Northern Ireland. We are at the centre of it. It is, as the hon. Member for Vale of Clwyd (Chris Ruane) said, a Cardiff-centric and London-centric view to suggest that north Wales is on the periphery. We are at the centre. However, we have to increase the investment in that area to make the north Wales powerhouse work.

I want to talk about road-rail being fully integrated and about sea and air, which are often regarded as Cinderella modes of transport when we talk about transport, but are hugely important to the UK.

The A55, which is now complete, is a victim of its own success. It is very crowded at times and has pinch points, not least across the Britannia bridge from Anglesey to the mainland. Having been at sea, I came home when the A55 was being built across Llanfair PG. Although the dual carriageway across north Wales was extended and expanded across Anglesey, there are only single lanes across the bridge. I cannot understand why this was not thought through by the then Welsh Office and the Government. This has been a big issue for a long time in respect of north Wales transport. We need ambition regarding a new crossing from the mainland, because, as I said, it is not just for local transport but for Irish transport. One of the biggest boosts to the economy in north Wales has been the Irish economy growing again, meaning that we have greater trade with the Republic of Ireland. I want to mention that later.

We have had some good news about roads. The Welsh Government are investing in a transport hub in my constituency—a lorry park—which will create 37 jobs immediately. With the trade with Ireland increasing, that will be an excellent facility for the port and for north Wales.

On rail, we have to have a vision. I echo what other Members have said about links with Liverpool and Manchester as well as with London and Cardiff. My family came from Liverpool to north Wales some time ago, and in those days people could travel directly from Holyhead to Liverpool without having to change trains. There was that link with Merseyside, predominantly with the seafaring communities and the Irish communities. We need to re-establish that direct link because, as my right hon. Friend the Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson) said, when our constituents go on holiday, many of them do not go to Heathrow and Gatwick; they go to John Lennon airport and Manchester airport. Those are important strategic airports to the whole of north Wales, and we must work together to ensure that we get that link back.

Arriva Trains and the franchise of Wales and Borders are creaking. They are running over capacity. In north Wales, too many people are travelling on too few trains that are too small, and we need to address that. The current franchise system simply is not working. We met Arriva, and it said, “That is all we had written into the franchise.” If we will have private operators and rail infrastructure heavily subsidised by taxpayers’ money, we want to see the companies showing some initiative and investing in the rolling stock. I hope that an incoming Labour Government will look seriously at that, because the franchise system is already outdated. We saw the debacle with the west coast main line and Virgin, where an error in the refranchising cost taxpayers millions of pounds. We need to look closely at that.

Transport on the sea is important; we are an island nation, and we trade with the rest of the European Union and the rest of the world. The port of Dublin is one of the fastest growing in Europe. I had the honour of launching a new vessel, the Superfast X, which will run between the ports of Holyhead and Dublin. It is owned by Stena. The port manager of Dublin and the family of Stena indicated to me that they want to see the link between Holyhead and Dublin as the new Dover-Calais. It has that potential to transport goods and people across the European Union through the north Wales corridor in both directions.

As a former seafarer, I pay tribute to the merchant navy and the merchant fleet that we have. They are a major employer for the future. The Superfast X is registered in Cardiff and flies not just the red ensign but the red dragon. Stena has made a huge commitment to invest in Wales and the port of Holyhead. We should be proud of the seafaring traditions of this country. I pay tribute to the coastguard and the Royal National Lifeboat Institution, of which I am vice president. We are a mercantile nation, and we should be investing more in cargo and passengers.

Tourism is a massive boost. A large number of people come and trade from Ireland as part of the European Union. My hon. Friend the Member for Alyn and Deeside is right: it would be harebrained to withdraw from the European Union when we have such established links with European nations on both sides, whether they are from Dover to France and the continent of Europe or to the Republic of Ireland.

Air links are important. We have an airport on Anglesey that is linked to the capital city of Wales, Cardiff, but we must have more ambition than that. We need the airport to be expanded. Looking not from the south-east of England or even from south Wales, but in a different direction, at the western corridor of the United Kingdom, we should have flights from Cardiff or Cornwall up to Belfast and tourist destinations so that people can link between the peripheral areas of this country. That is the ambition I hope we will have in the next Parliament.

I was laughed at when we talked about a link between Cardiff and Anglesey. I was told that it would not work, but it brings north-west Wales within 40 minutes of Cardiff. Fast flights to Dublin could be made in 15 minutes. That connection would mean that north-west Wales was 15 minutes from one capital and 40 minutes from another. The airport has that potential. Rather than having massive infrastructure projects and growing hubs in south Wales and the south of England, I encourage a future Government, which I hope will be of a different colour, to look at a different dimension so that we can move people through that western corridor.

In my remaining time, I want to touch on two other subjects. The first is tourism. If food and farming are included in tourism, it is one of the fastest-growing sectors of industry in the United Kingdom and the world. It is the fifth largest sector in the world, so we need to develop it. As we are talking about infrastructure, I say that we need rail, road, sea and air links to bring people to destinations. With my local authority, I have been promoting Anglesey as a destination within the United Kingdom. That is hugely important, but we need to have the infrastructure.

My right hon. Friend the Member for Delyn and my hon. Friend the Member for Alyn and Deeside mentioned broadband, but we also need to improve mobile phone coverage, because there is very little in some areas. In the past three years, we have been creating the big three in telecommunications. We must be worried about them investing solely in our large towns and cities and forgetting the rural areas, which do not have the strong economic case. I turn that argument on its head: my constituents and every Member of Parliament pay the same costs for mobile phones as those in cities and towns across the United Kingdom. We need to have universal services for the 21st century so that tourists, people working in rural areas and future investors have the telecommunications in rural areas that they deserve.

The second issue is energy. In my constituency, we have a massive proposal on nuclear power with Wylfa Newydd. That will create not only 6,000 to 8,000 construction jobs but 1,000 jobs for life in energy production. The supply chain and skills are absolutely essential for the future. In my constituency, Coleg Menai is training people for the construction phase and apprentices for high-quality engineering jobs in the energy sector. With the shadow Secretary of State, my right hon. Friend the Member for Don Valley (Caroline Flint), I recently visited Coleg Menai and saw young people with the aspiration of working in the area.

[Mr David Jones]

The hon. Gentleman politically cohabits with a Plaid Cymru Assembly Member. Can he tell us what the current policy of Plaid Cymru is on the development of Wylfa Newydd?

[Albert Owen]

I will stay away from the policies of other parties, because they will be developing their manifestos, but since no Plaid Cymru Member is here, I know that the leader of that party is on principle opposed to nuclear power. In the new alliance of the Green party, the Scottish National party and Plaid Cymru, all three leaders are opposed to nuclear power, which puts future nuclear power in this country at huge risk. I will leave it at that for the moment. I am sure I will have the opportunity to develop that argument over the next five weeks.

I do not only want to talk about nuclear power. A biomass eco park has been announced for my constituency. It will create 500 jobs and is starting next month. That is great for the area. It will bring food production and energy production together on one site. We need to move forward with the large projects. I make no apology for banging the drum for north-west Wales. It is an important area for the United Kingdom and links us with the Republic of Ireland. I am pro-Wales, pro-Anglesey, pro-British and pro-European. My party will be putting that forward at the general election, and I hope we will return a Labour Government to develop the projects.

Post Office Mediation Scheme

Debate between David Jones and Albert Owen

Wednesday 17th December 2014 Westminster Hall

[Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to follow the right hon. Member for North East Hampshire (Mr Arbuthnot). Like other hon. Members, I congratulate him and his office on the way they have dealt with Members of Parliament during this whole process—they have been very measured and courteous. He has brought together a groundswell of opinion from MPs and put that articulately to the Post Office.

I share the right hon. Gentleman’s disappointment at the way the Post Office has behaved, because I was one of the hon. Members who initially welcomed a mediation process. A mediation process is one of good will, where both sides volunteer to come together to look for a solution. What we have been talking about in this debate is the destruction of many people’s lives—the lives of many citizens who are well thought of in their communities.

The right hon. Gentleman mentioned Noel Thomas from my constituency, who was a councillor, although not of my political persuasion, in that community, and did more than his fair share of good for people. He ended up in prison because of this system and because he has, I believe—I am speaking personally here—been let down by the Post Office.

In the early stages of the legal matters, I allowed that legal process to go forward, as did other Members. It was not until the Justice for Subpostmasters Alliance was set up that the wider issues were known. I pay tribute to each and every one of those people for coming together and fighting for what they believe to be right.

My constituent Noel Thomas ended up in prison. There were very serious issues, and he lost his home and his business. The impact felt by the right hon. Gentleman’s constituents was felt by many of mine—even in my small constituency I know of five cases of varying degrees of seriousness—but Noel Thomas’s case is the most public and he is the only person I shall name in this debate, although there are a number of others.

The Horizon system has been looked at as there have been problems with it. Many sub-postmasters and sub-postmistresses, some of whom are now retired—their post offices have closed for whatever reason—indicated to me in the early stages in 2001-02 that there were issues of concern at that time in rural areas, when the system was going offline and being rebooted. I therefore find it hard to accept that the Post Office has concluded that there was nothing wrong with the system. I shall mention a little later the lack of support and the helplines because they were important.

The right hon. Gentleman mentioned—I heard it on the radio as well—people being told by Post Office staff, many of them sub-postmasters, to put money aside and to make it up. That beggars belief. There is no evidence of it in many places, because of the trust between the Post Office as the employer and the sub-postmasters who were running their thing.

[Mr David Jones]

Does the hon. Gentleman not agree that a lot of sub-postmasters who were subsequently prosecuted for false accounting had in effect been encouraged to engage in false accounting by Post Office support staff? In other words, was not the Post Office itself counselling and procuring an act of false accounting?

[Albert Owen]

Absolutely right. I thought that this system and this scheme were going to identify those issues and that somebody in the Post Office was going to have to answer for their actions, in the way that our constituents have had to answer by going to prison and losing their livelihoods, and various other things. It has been very one-sided.

In another case, the life of a relatively young woman has been ruined because of the accusations. On the advice of a barrister, she pleaded guilty to the lesser charge to avoid a custodial sentence. She feels now that she was let down not just by the Post Office but by the legal system. These are very serious issues. Members from across the House have indicated to me that they are aware of cases being handled in a similar way.

I thought, having had correspondence with other MPs and so on, that this was an independent process. I am now led to believe that the Post Office was judge and jury and was deciding unilaterally which cases were to go forward. I was of the opinion that people who had been found guilty, for the reasons we have outlined, would be allowed to enter the mediation system. I am very disappointed with the way this is turning out, because—I shall repeat this a number of times—we are talking about people’s lives being ruined by this process. I was under the impression that we were moving forward and making progress.

In a third case, a constituent of mine who entered the scheme was helped by the Post Office—as we all know, it paid for the early advice that that person was given—but because their status moved from that of sub-postmaster to employee of another sub-postmaster they were thrown off the scheme. That was discovered at a later stage. Taxpayers’ money had been given to a third party to help that person, to give advice and to come to that conclusion: a complete waste of public money. I argued the case on behalf of my constituent and he was reinstated to the scheme and is moving forward. However, because of confidentiality I do not really know where that case is in the system. A lot of issues need clarification.

I have sympathy with the Minister, because the Post Office, as we know, is not directly a Government body. However, it is a public body that we the taxpayers, and we as representatives, should hold to account. I pay tribute to the right hon. Member for North East Hampshire and others for doing that.

I shall not go over the other cases that I have, because I am conscious of time, but I have given some examples and we have heard others in interventions. However, I feel let down by the Post Office, my constituents feel let down by the Post Office and I think the country feels let down by the Post Office.

I repeat that I have anecdotal evidence—not hard evidence—that this system was problematic. Of course, computer systems—large-scale IT systems across Government and across public bodies—are problematic, but the reason the Post Office will not admit to these glitches is that, as Members have indicated in interventions, and as I am sure they will indicate in their speeches, people were encouraged to do things that were, in many ways, unlawful. That is a disgrace.

The crux of the debate is that the Post Office encouraged people to commit false accounting, and then it penalised them in the hardest way possible—by taking their livelihoods and reputations from them and destroying their standing in the proud communities we represent. The Post Office is iconic, and the people who serve in it do so with pride, but they have been let down, and it is time that this Parliament—the British Parliament—stood up for them. I am glad we are having this debate, and I want some results.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Jones and Albert Owen

Wednesday 9th July 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

I agree entirely, and that is why the generic design assessment for Wylfa Newydd is proceeding apace. We need an energy mix, and we need to ensure that fewer carbon emissions are produced. A mixture of nuclear and wind power will achieve that.

[Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab)]

As someone who has supported new nuclear build in Wales since my arrival in the House in 2001, and this project since its inception in 2008-09, will the Secretary of State join me in stating that the priority now must be to get the skill base and supply chain right, so that we have the jobs and high-quality skills that we deserve in north-west Wales? That means the UK Government working with the Welsh Government, local governments and stakeholders. Will the right hon. Gentleman agree to meet me to form a framework for that to happen?

[Mr Jones]

I am happy to commend the efforts the hon. Gentleman has made, and I entirely agree that the new build at Wylfa offers exciting prospects for the supply chain and for education. I am particularly impressed with the work that Coleg Menai is putting in, and I am more than happy to meet the hon. Gentleman at some future date.

Wales Bill

Debate between David Jones and Albert Owen

Monday 31st March 2014 Commons Chamber

[Albert Owen]

I do not know who the people were. The hon. Gentleman may well be right, but Labour is obviously the biggest party in Wales and has a strong voice there, unlike some other parties. It was a consultation exercise—[Interruption.] I am getting chuntering remarks from the hon. Member for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr again, but perhaps Plaid Cymru should also have had enough intelligence to do standard letters to put its view across in this open consultation. The point I am making is that this coalition proposal, supported by Plaid Cyrmru, is on the wrong side of the argument. These parties are doing it for their own political reasons. Nobody has said to me, “Wasn’t it terrible what you did in 2006 when you banned the dual mandate?” Nobody has raised the issue and it is right to leave things as they are. I shall be voting against the measure when the time comes, for the reasons I have given.

Individuals have been mentioned, which is wrong, but I must mention the leader of Plaid Cymru who, when she was elected, made a bold statement that she was not going to stand on the list. She made the brave decision to go before the electorate as an individual and leader of her party. She chose the seat for Rhondda, which she had every right to do, but now she has the jitters. She no longer feels secure in her statement, so she wants the lifeboat of a list place to get her into the Assembly for Wales; that is what this is all about. That is why I point to a deal being done. I smell a dirty deal here between the coalition parties and Plaid Cymru.

[Mr David Jones]

I have to say that the hon. Gentleman has raised a red herring there. I assure him that there has been absolutely no deal with Plaid Cymru. He knows me well enough to know that of all the parties in this House, Plaid Cymru is probably the last one I would ever do a deal with.

[Albert Owen]

I will take the Secretary of State’s word on that, but he is pandering to its views and helping it out. I certainly will not be doing that when it comes to voting on this Bill.

There are lots of things in this Bill that I do support. I have mentioned some already including the borrowing powers, the landfill tax and the stamp duty measures. I will support the Bill on Second Reading if there is a Division, but I will be working with Members from across the House to scrutinise it so that we get to a position where it is sellable to the people of Wales in a referendum, because I am, first and foremost, a democrat and a devolutionist, and a proud one too.

Welsh Affairs

Debate between David Jones and Albert Owen

Thursday 6th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[Albert Owen]

My hon. Friend makes an excellent point and he puts the issue to bed. We are not just talking about foreign individuals who may be chief executives of companies; we are talking about skilled, well-paid jobs and investment that will boost the economies of Deeside, Bristol and other parts of the United Kingdom. Business leaders at events with Airbus that I have attended have been clear that they are investing in Europe. That is why they want to invest in the United Kingdom, and they choose Deeside because it has an excellent skilled work force. I want that to continue and for many other parts of Wales and the United Kingdom to benefit from that as well.

The Welsh dimension to the constitutional debate in this Parliament has concentrated on the Silk commission, but I am being honest with hon. Members when I say that not one constituent has raised that with me as an important or pertinent issue for them. They do, however, raise important issues about public services and the cost of living, and they talk about international affairs—we had an excellent debate on women in Afghanistan today. People send us here to talk about real issues that affect them.

I speak as a proud pro-devolutionist and I supported devolution in 1979. Many fellow travellers have come along since that time, including the Labour party. To me, however, real devolution is about empowering people throughout our country. It is not about the simple transfer of powers from one institution in Whitehall to another in Cardiff Bay; to me it is about empowering people in Cemaes bay in my constituency, and in Colwyn bay, Cardigan bay, and many other parts of Wales. It is not just about the boring constitutional issues that we, the political elite, are bogged down with and a few commentators are talking about.

I want to talk about the real issue of developing a stable and growing economy in Wales as part of the United Kingdom and the European Union, and I will mention two things that affect businesses and people in my constituency: energy and tourism.

On energy, I very much welcome the fact that we are getting a consensus on the big energy issues, for reasons that I gave earlier including the stability that businesses crave so that they can make huge investments in the future. I welcome the Secretary of State’s support for Wylfa Newydd and his conversion to offshore wind. I shall put this mildly because I want the consensus to continue, but when the Secretary of State worked alongside me on the Welsh Affairs Committee I recall him being concerned about the consents under the previous Government. He now backs those schemes and even claims credit for them as the flagship of the coalition Government.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

I can actually see the Gwynt y Môr wind farm from my sitting room, so I can recognise a fact of life.

[Albert Owen]

I take that point, and the Secretary of State may now find that an attractive view from his window, but at one time he did not want it to go ahead. He would not have been able to see it from his window, nor would he have been able to meet many of the targets that we are making progress towards in a low-carbon economy. I have always thought that offshore wind has a great future, although I am a little less certain about onshore wind, because of the sheer size of some of the turbines.

[Albert Owen]

We need a mix. We need a base load and we need variable energy. If we do not have interconnectors and we are producing too much energy in the summer, when peak demand is less, we cannot switch off nuclear power stations and it is expensive to switch off gas. It is easier to switch off variable supplies such as renewables can provide, including wind. There is an initial cost, but those costs are coming down, and I believe that with economies of scale—as with the strike price for nuclear or for any other renewable—the price will decrease as the sector matures. In the long term, bills will be cheaper if we get a steady supply of low carbon energy.

Nuclear power is also part of the mix. I welcome the conversion of the Secretary of State to wind power and the conversion of the Liberal Democrats to nuclear power. I hope that that means that the three larger parties, two of which form the Government now and one of which I hope will form the next Government, will be consistent in the future.

[Mr David Jones]

Would the hon. Gentleman be able to inform the House of the position of Plaid Cymru in his constituency on nuclear power?

[Albert Owen]

It is up to Plaid Cymru to defend itself. As I have been provoked into raising the issue, I will say that it is important that all the larger parties here and the larger parties in the Assembly—of which Plaid Cymru is one—show their support. In my opinion, a party cannot claim to be in full support of a technology if its leader says that she wants an energy future without nuclear power. The leader of a party cannot say that to business leaders and then say that she supports the jobs. We need to support the development of the technology. On Plaid Cymru’s website, which I get little notes about occasionally, the energy spokesperson says that it wants 100% renewable energy by 2035—there is no mention of nuclear. That is a clear indication that Plaid Cymru opposes nuclear as part of the energy mix in the future. That will be an issue for the general election as we make progress on the building of Wylfa Newydd. I hope that that answers the Secretary of State’s intervention.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Jones and Albert Owen

Wednesday 12th February 2014 Commons Chamber

[Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab)]

9. What recent discussions he has had with his ministerial colleagues on the effects of VAT on the tourism and hospitality industry in Wales.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

Tourism and hospitality play an important role in the economy in Wales, attracting more than 4 million people from across Great Britain between July and September last year. The World Economic Forum has recently ranked the UK fifth in Europe in its travel and tourism competitiveness index.

[Albert Owen]

Our near neighbours, the Republic of Ireland, and most other European countries have reduced the level of value added tax in the tourism sector, boosting jobs, growth and investment in their countries. The United Kingdom and Wales are among those with the highest rates of VAT in Europe, and, according to an independent inquiry, that has led to the suppression of jobs and investment. Will the Secretary of State lobby the Treasury to ensure that we have a competitive rate of VAT and that we reduce VAT, which is a tax on jobs?

[Mr Jones]

I am sure that the hon. Gentleman is as happy as I am that tourism expenditure in Wales increased by £746 million over the past year. The United Kingdom is highly competitive in the tourism market. As I said in my initial answer, the World Economic Forum has indicated that the UK is the fifth most competitive economy in Europe, ahead of France, Portugal and Italy.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Jones and Albert Owen

Wednesday 3rd July 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

I have had a number of discussions with the Chancellor on the spending review. This Government are investing in Wales. The announcement of the £250-million new prison in north Wales will create much-needed jobs for the region and further boost economic growth.

[Albert Owen]

Missing from the spending review was real investment in Welsh ports and Welsh infrastructure to those ports. Wales has already lost out under this Government on ports, which are the gateways to Wales. They could regenerate sectors such as energy and, thus, make places such as Holyhead world leaders. When will this Secretary of State stand up for Welsh ports and make sure that we get a level playing field for this energy development, which includes marine, tidal, onshore wind, offshore wind and nuclear power, which Plaid Cymru does not support?

[Mr Jones]

I regularly visit ports across Wales and am well aware of the importance of Holyhead port to the economy. The hon. Gentleman is quite right that we need better connectivity with the ports, on which I am pressing my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Transport, and I am raising it with the Welsh Government.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Jones and Albert Owen

Wednesday 15th May 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

The increase in the personal allowance announced by the Government will benefit 1.1 million taxpayers and remove 130 individuals from paying income tax altogether. More than 35,000 businesses in Wales will benefit from the national insurance employment allowance, with 20,000 of them being taken out of national insurance altogether.

[Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab)]

I welcome the drop in unemployment in Wales—that is in sharp contrast to unemployment in England—and credit must go to the jobs growth fund introduced by the Welsh Government. What practical steps are the Secretary of State and the Government taking to work with the Welsh Government to eradicate long-term unemployment, which is rising in north Wales and in his and my constituencies?

[Mr Jones]

The hon. Gentleman should also commend Welsh businesses, which are increasing the number of their employees, but certainly I am happy to commend initiatives by the Welsh Government. His point highlights the importance of the UK and Welsh Governments working closely together. That is something that we are prepared to do, and I expect to see reciprocation from the Welsh Government.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Jones and Albert Owen

Wednesday 27th February 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

My hon. Friend makes a fair point. The new prison would provide approximately 900 new jobs of high quality, but its economic impact on the area would be approximately £17.5 million, which would itself be a stimulus to the private sector. The new prison is widely welcomed in north Wales.

[Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab)]

The Secretary of State said that the Ministry of Justice was reviewing the possibility of a prison in north Wales. Has the Wales Office itself identified sites? I believe, and he believes, that this would boost economic activity in north Wales. It would be good for the economy as well as the justice system.

[Mr Jones]

I agree entirely with the hon. Gentleman that this would be of massive economic benefit. My hon. Friend the Minister discussed this with the relevant Welsh Minister last week, and I have also had discussions with my right hon. Friend the Lord Chancellor.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Jones and Albert Owen

Wednesday 16th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

My hon. Friend is right: the development of nuclear skills is key. The Government have created the Nuclear Energy Skills Alliance to co-ordinate the work of all the expert skills bodies relating to nuclear. The Welsh Assembly Government are also represented on that alliance.

[Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab)]

The Secretary of State will be aware of the new energy centre in Llangefni—indeed, he has visited—which upskills people in the nuclear industry and for low carbon. However, with unemployment increasing considerably in 2012 and the announcement of a further 350 jobs at risk at Vion, will he meet me urgently to discuss the skills and jobs issues that are harming the prospects of young people and under-skilled people in Wales?

[Mr Jones]

I join the hon. Gentleman in commending the work of Coleg Menai, which is doing a tremendous job in training apprentices for Wylfa. He will know that I am always ready to meet him to discuss any issue of concern to his constituency.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Jones and Albert Owen

Wednesday 28th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

The announcement by Hitachi provides an enormous opportunity for all those involved in the nuclear industry in this country, particularly those in the supply chain. I am heartened that Hitachi has already said that up to 60% of the total cost of the first nuclear reactor will come from British content. I have no doubt that there is a tremendous opportunity for companies such as those in my hon. Friend’s constituency.

[Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab)]

I welcome the support the Secretary of State has given to Horizon and for the takeover by Hitachi. To get 21st-century technologies such as offshore wind and nuclear power on to the grid, we need to improve the infrastructure, and 21st-century infrastructure should include subsea and subsea stations. Will the Secretary of State agree to meet me to discuss the proposals from National Grid that are in front of the public in north Wales?

[Mr Jones]

I commend the hon. Gentleman for the work he has done in seeking to obtain new nuclear on Anglesey. He knows that I have always been anxious to work closely with him on all aspects of nuclear generation on Anglesey and of course I am prepared to meet him, because he has raised a very important point.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Jones and Albert Owen

Wednesday 17th October 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

I am sure that my hon. Friend was pleased to hear that the Welsh Government have designated an enterprise zone in Milford Haven. Planning is indeed extremely important for the development of enterprise zones. It is being streamlined in England and I very much hope that the Welsh Government will follow suit.

[Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab)]

I welcome the Secretary of State to his new post—perhaps he is overwhelmed by the welcome he has had thus far. Will he encourage Ministers to look at improving infrastructure in Wales, particularly port infrastructure, on which enterprise zones such as the one in Anglesey rely? He has passed the buck to the Welsh Assembly in the past. Will he now fight within Government so that we have a level playing field with English ports?

Elections (National Assembly for Wales)

Debate between David Jones and Albert Owen

Tuesday 3rd July 2012 Westminster Hall

[Albert Owen]

The hon. Gentleman may shake his head, but that is what parliamentary democracy is based on. I am disappointed that the Secretary of State is not here this morning. She was the one who said at Welsh questions that she wanted to lead this debate. This was the opportunity for her to do so. Perhaps 9.30 is a little too early in the morning for her to turn up to lead a debate, but at 11.30 on Monday she wanted to do so. I am glad that my right hon. Friend the Member for Torfaen has given us this opportunity at 9.30 on Tuesday.

[Mr David Jones]

Let me correct the hon. Gentleman. This is not the debate that the Secretary of State wanted to lead. She wanted to lead the debate in the Grand Committee that Opposition Front Bench Members refused to have.

[Albert Owen]

I do not take notice of what my Front Bench colleagues say on every occasion, but they were absolutely right about this. What they said—if the Minister is going to quote them, he should do so correctly—was that they wanted a debate on the Floor of the House, in the main Chamber. Changing the way in which people are elected and the numbers who can be elected to the National Assembly are important issues. I welcome a debate, but not after the event.

The hon. Member for Aberconwy said that the status quo is not an option, so the only option left is 30:30. Those are the only two options presented by the Government. We stay with the status quo, which will not be an option, or we go for 30:30. I have concerns about equal weighting between regional Members and constituency Members. Members of the Assembly and Members of Parliament serve a community. There is a link with the individual who is elected. He or she represents the views of the people and they can be voted out. When we increase the regional lists—this is another inconsistency among some Government Members—we make things less representative. The power goes not to the people but to the party managers, which is something I disagree with, whether for the European elections, the Assembly elections or any other election. In this Chamber today, there are three Members who were regional Assembly Members, and I have respect for all of them as individuals, but they have all chosen to come here and to be elected on a constituency basis. I take from that that they favour that form of election.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Jones]

The hon. Lady’s personal animosity towards the Secretary of State is well known, so I will not grace her comments with any further response.

This debate is about the Government’s Green Paper on the future electoral arrangements for the National Assembly for Wales, but the Labour party appears to spend most of its time agonising about process. Having hacked through that undergrowth of process, its principal complaint seems to be that it is the Assembly, not Parliament, that should be responsible for determining those electoral arrangements. The position, however, is absolutely clear: this Government can only work within the devolution settlement that was put in place by the Government of Wales Act 2006. That Act was implemented by the Labour party, so it is rather rich that its Members are now complaining about the arrangements that they thought perfectly adequate back in 2006. I witnessed the passage of the Bill through Parliament, and I cannot recall any of those Members suggesting at the time that the arrangements should be anything other than those that we are pursuing.

[Albert Owen]

Will the Minister give way?

[Mr Jones]

No, I will not, because I have been left very little time by the hon. Member for Pontypridd.

Under the settlement, the Assembly’s electoral arrangements are not a devolved issue, so constitutionally it is entirely proper for Parliament to consider the question. The issue of the First Minister’s conversation with the Prime Minister has been raised. Let me make the position clear for the record: the Prime Minister’s recollection is that, when he met the First Minister at the Broughton aircraft factory, he told him that the Assembly should be fully engaged in the process. He did not say that the matter was to be decided by the Assembly itself. Frankly, it would have been extraordinary if he had done so, because that is not an option under the devolution settlement. As I have said, the notes from the meeting do not reflect the First Minister’s recollection of what was said.

I repeat that this debate is about a Green Paper, in which the Government are asking important questions about the future conduct of Assembly elections and the make-up of the Assembly itself. It is, as my hon. Friend the Member for Aberconwy (Guto Bebb) has pointed out, a consultative document, and the Assembly, the Assembly Government, Opposition Members—in fact, everybody—are not only free but positively encouraged to play into that process. I have no doubt that the right hon. Member for Torfaen will himself play into it and make submissions to the consultation, which will continue until 13 August.

The Government are seeking to establish whether people think that the Assembly constituency boundaries should reflect the 30 proposed new parliamentary boundaries in Wales, or whether there should remain 40 constituencies, which would have to be of equal, or nearly equal, size. I find it extraordinary when Opposition Members criticise the principle of equality of vote, because it was my understanding that the Labour party—we have been reminded of this by several Opposition Members, most notably the hon. Member for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen)—considers democracy to be important. It is wrong, according to the values of any democracy, that a vote in the constituency of Cardiff South and Penarth should be worth almost twice the value of a vote in Arfon. What is sauce for the parliamentary goose is sauce for the Assembly gander, and that is precisely what we seek to achieve—fairness and equality within the voting system.

We have made it clear, as the hon. Member for Caerphilly (Wayne David) has pointed out, that we favour a move to 30 constituencies that are coterminous with parliamentary constituencies, because that would be cleaner and clearer for the people of Wales. Under such a system, they would know which constituency they were casting their vote in, whether it was at a Westminster or an Assembly election. I do not believe that there is anything controversial about that.

This has been an extraordinary debate, because it should have taken place yesterday in Grand Committee, and it should have lasted for three and a half hours, rather than an hour and a half. I must say that it is because of the ineptitude of the shadow Secretary of State in opposing the motion for a Grand Committee when it was made on the Floor of the House that we did not have the debate yesterday. I do not believe that his party’s Back Benchers are idle or cowardly, but that the hon. Gentleman has completely mishandled the process.

It is also extraordinary that Opposition Members appear to be clamouring for a debate on the Floor of the House about a consultation paper. When the Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill was progressing through the House, they clamoured for a Grand Committee on the issue, yet when they were offered a Grand Committee on the Green Paper, they refused it because they wanted a debate on the Floor of the House. This is a question of utter, shambolic inconsistency on the part of Opposition Members in general and the hon. Member for Pontypridd specifically. I realise that he is very new to the job and that he is inexperienced, but it would have been more beneficial to him if he had sought the counsel of the right hon. Members for Torfaen and for Neath (Mr Hain) before he decided, in such a cack-handed manner, to refuse the offer of a debate in Grand Committee.

The Green Paper is an important document. I hope that Opposition Members will play into the process and that the hon. Member for Pontypridd will learn from this experience and exercise a little more caution before shouting, “Object”, on the Floor of the House.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Jones and Albert Owen

Wednesday 27th June 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

The Welsh Assembly Government are doing considerably better in financial terms under this Government than many other spending Departments, and the right hon. Gentleman should take that into account.

[Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab)]

Regional pay affects local economies in the poorest regions of Wales. Does the Minister agree that construction workers and construction firms in north-west Wales, in Cemaes bay and Colwyn bay, should be paid the same as those in Torbay and Buckinghamshire, as should teachers in those areas?

[Mr Jones]

Increasingly, Welsh house builders are leaving Wales to build in England, and it is good that firms such as Watkin Jones, which the hon. Gentleman will know, at least are keeping local employees. [Interruption.]

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Jones and Albert Owen

Wednesday 25th April 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

Yes, indeed. We recognise the importance of the electrification of the south Wales valley lines to the economy of the Cardiff city region and wider. The Chancellor of the Exchequer singled out electrification of those lines as a key infrastructure priority in the Budget, and I was delighted that my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister confirmed his personal commitment to that when he visited Wales earlier this month.

[Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab)]

9. What recent discussions she has had with the First Minister of Wales on developing rail transport in Wales.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

My right hon. Friend has regular discussions with the First Minister about a range of transport issues that affect Wales, most recently last week.

[Albert Owen]

Has the Wales Office done a study of the impact of High Speed 2 on Wales, and has the Wales Office put the case for improving the lines west of Crewe and line speeds, as well as possible electrification, so that we can have a high-speed Wales?

[Mr Jones]

I share the hon. Gentleman’s concern about speeds on the north Wales coast line. The Wales Office discusses these matters regularly with the Department for Transport and will continue to do so.

Welsh Affairs

Debate between David Jones and Albert Owen

Thursday 1st March 2012 Commons Chamber

[Albert Owen]

I am certainly aware of that, and Anglesey will make a bid for some of the money available from such companies. We had wind turbines on Anglesey early, and nobody can accuse the people of Anglesey of being nimbys. We have a good mix of energy—onshore, offshore, nuclear—and there are various plans at the moment. However, we have to get the balance right. The nature of renewables obligation certificates for onshore wind means that it is attractive to develop onshore technology. The Government are undertaking a review, which is why I have brought the matter to the attention of the Wales Office. It should ensure that developing offshore is more attractive.

There are some good plans for offshore developments that can benefit the north Wales region, particularly the Irish sea development, which is some 15 km off the shore of Anglesey and very close to the Isle of Man and Cumbria. I hope that the Minister is listening, because I want Wales, and particularly north Wales, to benefit greatly from that development.

We should also have port development. I have raised that issue before with the Wales Office. I lobbied the last Government to put port development into the equation, and the then Chancellor of the Exchequer, my right hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh South West (Mr Darling), made £60 million available for ports. The current Government came in and changed that fund so that it was meant for economic development. When it was for ports, which are a reserved matter, funding could have gone to any port in the United Kingdom. As a consequence—I think an unintended consequence—of the Government’s changing it, it became subject to Barnett consequentials, leaving just £3 million for the whole of Wales.

Anybody who knows about port development will know that enabling ports to accommodate the manufacturing and maintenance of large wind turbines will cost tens of millions of pounds. Ports in England will have a distinct advantage over ports in Wales. Those in Barrow and in the north-east, which will service the area that I am talking about, will be able to spend quite a bit more on development. There is a danger that many jobs will then drift to those areas. I hope that the Minister will take that on board and lobby hard for us to get our fair share. To say that it is up the Welsh Assembly is not on, because then money would have to be taken from health, education or various other areas. The original £60 million was for port development, and ports remain a reserved matter for the House of Commons. The ports of Wales should be treated equally to those of England.

[Mr David Jones]

I agree with the hon. Gentleman that ports are a valuable Welsh resource and more should be done to encourage them. Does he therefore regret, as I do, the fact that the Welsh Minister would not allow her officials to attend the Committee meeting that my hon. Friend the Member for Monmouth (David T. C. Davies) mentioned?

[Albert Owen]

The hon. Gentleman is trying to stir things up between members of the Labour party, but he knows that I am frank enough to say that I wanted the same Minister to come to the Welsh Affairs Committee when she was Health Minister. We should work together. However, the Wales Office must stand up for Wales, and on this occasion it has let Welsh ports down. Hartlepool is bidding for more than £10 million, yet Wales cannot bid for any more than £3 million from the same pot.

Wales has great potential to create jobs in green energy. I want it to be the pioneering centre for green energy in not just Britain but Europe, using our tidal streams. We should also bring the barrage plan back into the equation. We should look for ways of funding it, so that it can generate 5% to 6% of the UK’s electricity. We should put a road across it, so that we can link England and Wales physically, just as Welsh Members of this UK Parliament should talk for England and Wales.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Jones and Albert Owen

Wednesday 23rd November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

Yes, my hon. Friend is entirely correct. This Government have had to take tough decisions on the economy. The fruit of that is that we have maintained our triple A rating and, as a consequence, this country is in a far better position than many of our competitors.

[Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab)]

Small businesses in my constituency have written to me this month saying that they are going to lay people off or may face closure because of the Government’s policy on the feed-in tariff for solar. Will the Minister give a categoric assurance to the House that he will lobby the Treasury and Ministers at the Department of Energy and Climate Change to ensure that the scheme is maintained to help businesses that are doing the right thing in Wales?

[Mr Jones]

The hon. Gentleman will have heard my previous answers on this question. I urge him also to contribute to that consultation, and no doubt he will participate in the debate this afternoon.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Jones and Albert Owen

Wednesday 12th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab)]

5. What assessment she has made of the effects of the Government’s economic policy on employment levels in Wales.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

Through our economic policies, we are committed to delivering strong and sustainable growth balanced across the whole UK, including Wales, rather than concentrated in London and the south-east, as it was under the previous Government. We have made it clear that our top priority remains tackling the deficit while creating the right conditions for the private sector to expand in Wales and create jobs.

[Albert Owen]

I welcome measures taken by the Welsh Government to stimulate the economy in Wales, but the UK Government, at a time of high unemployment, high inflation and rising borrowing, have taken money out of the economy by putting up VAT. Does the Minister agree with the Federation of Small Businesses that it is time to consider a temporary reduction in VAT to stimulate the economy, particularly in sectors such as construction and tourism, to increase employment in Wales?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Jones and Albert Owen

Wednesday 29th June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

There is considerable concern in north and mid-Wales about large-scale energy developments, but I must tell my hon. Friend that there are no plans to devolve such competence to the Welsh Assembly Government. The big problem in mid-Wales is not that competence for energy consents resides in Westminster, but that the Assembly Government’s planning policy—in the form of technical advice note 8—has a strong presumption in favour of wind farm development in certain areas. That is the difficulty and it lies with the Welsh Assembly Government to amend.

[Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab)]

For successful energy projects to go ahead in Wales so that it can reach its potential, we need proper infrastructure. The First Minister and local government want the same deal for ports development as England has—a level playing field. This is a reserved matter: will the Minister and Secretary of State stand up for Wales?

[Mr Jones]

As the hon. Gentleman knows full well, Barnett consequentials were given to the Welsh Assembly Government and they have decided not to implement them on port developments in Wales. I suggest that he has a strong word with the First Minister and pleads with him to divert money to that cause.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Jones and Albert Owen

Wednesday 16th March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

Local authorities can do much to help roll out the big society. Smart and intelligent councils are already doing so by recognising that big society initiatives can complement services that they provide and vice versa. I recently visited Pembrokeshire, where many good neighbour schemes have been set up to provide help and support for individuals who would otherwise be isolated. Pembrokeshire county council has appointed a scheme co-ordinator who offers advice to groups that want to establish such schemes.

[Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab)]

On Saturday, I saw the big society in all its glory in Anglesey with the opening of the scouts and guides hall. That project brought together the public and private sectors and volunteers, but public funding was key. Will the Minister ensure that funding is given to the Welsh Assembly so that such schemes can carry on? Next Tuesday, he will be able to see the big society in all its glory on Anglesey day here in the House of Commons.

[Mr Jones]

As I said, I have held discussions with Carl Sargeant, who is the Minister responsible for such matters in the Welsh Assembly Government. We are taking that work forward. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will be pleased to hear that the big society bank will be available for the whole of the United Kingdom. There is no reason why Welsh groups should not apply to it for funding.

North Wales Economy

Debate between David Jones and Albert Owen

Tuesday 29th June 2010 Westminster Hall

[Mr Jones]

Yes, but as the right hon. Gentleman knows, a number of projects were signed up to—including the Sheffield Forgemasters project—very late in the day during the election period for a reason that is patently obvious to even the most charitable observer.

The hon. Member for Vale of Clwyd mentioned Glyndwr university and Technium OpTIC. I endorse his commendation for OpTIC. In fact, the first official visit that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State and I paid to north Wales after our respective appointments was to Technium OpTIC. I particularly commend Professor Mike Scott, the vice-chancellor of Glyndwr, for forging ahead with OpTIC and, as the hon. Gentleman has pointed out, ensuring that the university forges strong links with the private sector. Such an approach is certainly the way forward.

We also heard about Landrillo college. Again, I can do nothing but commend Landrillo, which is, in fact, headquartered in my constituency. I pay tribute to Huw Evans, the principal of Landrillo college, for forging links with the private sector.

The hon. Gentleman mentioned agriculture. I think it is fair to say that over the years, the Conservative party has shown nothing but support for the agricultural sector and it will continue to do so.

The hon. Gentleman also mentioned seaside towns—an issue of personal interest to me. Colwyn Bay is an important town that has declined over recent years. It is, in fact, currently in receipt of strategic regional assistance moneys from Europe via the Welsh Assembly Government. I echo what he said about houses in multiple occupation, which have been a scourge of seaside towns—Rhyl in his constituency and Colwyn Bay in mine alone. However, I must gently criticise the Welsh Assembly Government’s policy of attracting people into north Wales who have no connection with the area because doing so has ensured that incomers can leapfrog indigenous north Waleseans. That has caused a great deal of concern to councillors in my constituency and, I am sure, in the constituency of the hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Mr Llwyd).

The hon. Member for Vale of Clwyd mentioned the Heritage Lottery Fund. I remind him that the lottery was a Conservative innovation. He has already mentioned John Major. If I remember rightly, the lottery was John Major’s pet project. I am glad to say that the coalition Government intend to review the operation of the lottery to ensure that it reverts to its original aims of supporting good causes. We want to ensure that it is not rifled by Government as a support to taxation.

The hon. Gentleman mentioned the Rhyl city strategy and the future jobs fund, which he regards as important. We have to make a decision in this country: whether we create real jobs, with some prospects of creating real wealth, or whether we subsidise jobs that are guaranteed only for six months. Doing the latter does not create real wealth and runs the risk of returning the young people on those programmes to the dole. The focus of the Government should be on creating real wealth. That is the nub of the difference between the Labour Government and the coalition Government. The previous Government were happy to fritter away this country’s resources through borrowing to mortgage our children’s and our grandchildren’s future, without tackling the root causes of the problem that the economy faces, which is essentially the enormous deficit that this country is running. The enormous structural deficit and debt run the risk of strangling each and every one of those young people before they get a job at all.

This Government intend to focus on reducing the deficit, on restoring real jobs to the economy, and on ensuring as far as possible that those who are able to work can do so. That is why I commend the work programme that was announced today by the Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions, my right hon. Friend the Member for Epsom and Ewell (Chris Grayling), which was criticised by the hon. Gentleman. This Government are not afraid to face the real decisions that we need to take to put the country back on the right track. We may receive criticism from the hon. Gentleman, but we have received the support of the OECD, the G8, the Governor of the Bank of England and any number of chief executives he may care to mention. The future of this country is real, genuine, honest employment.

[Albert Owen]

Will the Minister give way?

[Mr Jones]

No, I will not take the hon. Gentleman’s intervention, but—

[Albert Owen]

Why not?

[Mr Jones]

If the hon. Gentleman would like to listen, he might actually be pleased with what I am about to say. I commend him for his advancement of the energy island concept. He understands that only real jobs will rescue Anglesey, and I commend him for it. I repeat my previous support for Wylfa nuclear power station. I hope that it gets built, and but for the fact that the Labour Government effectively had no energy policy for 10 years, Wylfa would now be well on the way to being built. We have had 13 wasted years of Labour, during which time we ate the seed corn for future generations. It is time to get Britain back to work; it is time to get Britain moving again. I believe that the coalition Government will do just that.