Legal Aid Reform

David Burrowes Excerpts

Thursday 27th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Valerie Vaz]

Absolutely. I am sure hon. Members received the e-mail from Michael Turner QC stating that the Lord Chancellor refused to meet him.

It is not clear what the Lord Chancellor is trying to achieve, other than to undermine the legal system. The Lord Chancellor does not appear to understand that if people are given access to legal services, they do not need to go to court—if that is where he wants to make the savings. Perhaps he wants to make the savings in court time. However, as a result of these proposals, court time will be filled by people who can afford going to court. In certain circumstances, companies can offset their legal costs against tax and even get the VAT back. An ordinary citizen cannot do that.

Judicial review is an important branch of law. Of course, the Executive do not like it because it holds the Executive to account—it looks at how public bodies come to a decision. Given the legislation enacted since 2010, it is no wonder that the Government want a neutered judicial review. No one can predict the outcome of a case, so having to make a judgment that there is a 50% chance of winning to receive legal aid, is absurd. Evidence has to be heard from both sides and a decision is made based on arguments that are made before an impartial judiciary. Lawyers are obliged to advise a client whether a case has merits before they proceed. What about the figures for judicial review? They are not increasing exponentially. A written answer to me revealed that in 2009 there were 2,145 cases in judicial review, with that figure going up to only 2,304 in 2011. In criminal judicial review, it was 316 for 2011. Those are just the figures for cases lodged; they are not even the figures for cases that have gone to completion.

[Mr David Burrowes (Enfield, Southgate) (Con)]

The statistics quoted by those who want to restrict judicial review are that there are just 144 successful cases out of a total of 11,359. We should be careful about those figures, because they include only successful public hearings. Most cases are settled way before public hearing—they are settled before determination—and that is the merit of judicial review.

[Valerie Vaz]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that point. He speaks as a true lawyer; I know that he works very hard in his own law firm to deliver justice.

Let us blow the myth that lawyers are in it for the money. As my hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull East (Karl Turner) said, legal aid lawyers are not fat cats. Under legal aid, they do much more work than they are paid for. Treasury counsel, whom I had the privilege of working with when I worked for the Treasury Solicitors Department, have also expressed concerns about the reforms. They undertake Government work at incredibly low rates—much lower than if they were working in the private sector. They do both, but they bring the same intellectual vigour to Government cases as they do to anything else.

What of price competitive tendering? The number of contracts is to be reduced from 1,600 to 400. The west midlands can expect only 20 firms. According to the Law Society, however, approximately 800 firms operate in the west midlands. The Magistrates’ Association, another voice against these proposals, says that there appears to be little consistency in the number of contracts allocated to each area. The idea that one would get paid irrespective of how one’s client pleads is absurd. That is not justice; that is plea bargaining. The Lord Chancellor should know the difference. It is not choice either, as it concentrates representation and funds in a few hands. Lawyers pride themselves on their reputation—that is how they get their referrals. This will deny people the chance of choosing who they want to represent them. The hon. Member for Dewsbury (Simon Reevell) said that that is anathema to Conservatives. It is anathema to everybody when small businesses go out of business.

Michael Turner QC has come up with decent proposals, if only the Lord Chancellor would meet him. He has pointed out that 45% of the criminal legal aid budget of £1.1 billion is spent on fraud cases. If there is a banking case and the bank cannot recover the money, the fraud loss can be written off against tax, despite the state having spent money on investigation.

This is another policy from the Government that will benefit those who can afford it at the expense of the weak and vulnerable. There is no evidence for the policy. The Lord Chancellor has no mandate from the people, and no moral, legal or financial argument to continue with this course of action. He is tampering with one of the important checks and balances of the state. He is trying to weaken the golden triangle of Parliament, the judiciary and the Executive that underpins the rule of law and the framework of a good society—our society. These proposals are toxic to society and should be withdrawn.

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[Neil Parish (Tiverton and Honiton) (Con)]

I am delighted to be able to take part in the debate. I must declare straight away that I am not a lawyer. I hope that I can therefore approach the debate in an impartial manner. I have been listening to it, and I am concerned to hear that so many small firms of lawyers could be excluded from the large contracts. Devon and Cornwall cover 40,000 square miles, and that will be viewed as one contract. That is a huge area to cover. I am not against the principle behind the reform, but we must be careful about introducing contracts that will cover such huge areas. We must ensure that smaller companies have a chance to tender for that work.

[Mr Burrowes]

My hon. Friend makes a good point about small firms. I work in one such firm as a criminal defence solicitor. Does he recognise a certain irony, in that the Government want to avoid the legal aid deserts that it has been suggested could be created as a result of the equal-sized contracting model, and that the small firms, the medium-sized firms and the large firms are all saying that the proposed model is unviable?

[Neil Parish]

My hon. Friend speaks with a great deal of experience as a lawyer in a law firm. He has identified the problem with the reform, and I can relate to what he is saying. I suspect that all Conservative Members recognise the need to make savings, but we need to do so in a way that will still allow people to have a choice. Hon. Members on both sides of the House are keen to see small law firms get business and stay in business.

It is estimated that about £20 million is being spent on the defence of criminals, many of whom are probably not declaring all their assets, and I agree with the Government that that needs to be sorted out. That is perhaps a slightly different issue, but it is none the less essential that taxpayers’ money is used to the best effect. A cut-off point can be set on a person’s income above which they will not qualify for legal aid, but there are also cases in which someone who is eligible for it carries on a vexatious case against a person who is just above the threshold and has to fund the case themselves. That is perhaps not a matter for debate today, but it is essential, if we are to ensure that people can get access to legal aid, to ensure that those cases that are pursued are legitimate and not simply vexatious.

It has been pointed out that we are seeing a great many judicial reviews. It is right that the Government should be challenged, but it is not necessarily right that everyone should have access to a judicial review, as they are often unnecessary.

I broadly support the Government’s attempt to reduce the costs of legal aid, but I am concerned about certain aspects of it, as I live in and represent an area of Devon that is very rural and the proposed contract will be very large. I believe that the Secretary of State and the Minister are listening to these arguments; the Minister is nodding his head. I do not want us to be a Government who reduce choice, who drive out of business many small firms that do an excellent job and, perhaps, who do not save anywhere near as much money as we believe we will. Before we go ploughing on with this, let us sit down and have a proper consultation. I am hopeful that the Government are not just saying this and that they will have meaningful talks. I look forward to that happening.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr David Burrowes (Enfield, Southgate) (Con)]

I refer the House to the Register of Members’ Financial Interests. My interest is as a criminal defence duty solicitor, so I have a particular interest in relation to the criminal legal aid proposals. It is important that we focus on this issue, but we should not have this debate in a vacuum. Certainly, yesterday’s statement ensures that we do not have a vacuum; there is a need to make the £11.5 billion saving, and legal aid cannot be exempt.

We also heard from the Chancellor that this is about fairness. Reference was made to the national health service as an institution that we can be proud of, that the people are proud of and that is about fairness. The legal aid system is also an institution that is about fairness. It is one that we can be proud of, but it is not one that in polls people say is a No. 1 priority. That makes it even more important that we as a Parliament and a Government make sure it has integrity, but it cannot be excluded from the Budget round.

Why can we proud of it? Members do not have to take my word for it. Just take the word of the Secretary of State, who has been maligned and caricatured in many ways, but I am convinced is open and is listening to this consultation. We need to take his word for it—

[Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Finsbury) (Lab)]

Where is he?

[Mr Burrowes]

Let us not get into the “Where is he?” business, or who he meets with. Let us take this a bit more seriously. Let us listen to what he said in the document. He said:

“Access to justice should not be determined by your ability to pay, and I am clear that legal aid is the hallmark of a fair, open justice system.”

That is what we have all been saying throughout today’s debate. He went on to say:

“Unfortunately, over the past decade, the system has lost much of its credibility with the public. “

I look at the criminal legal aid system, predominantly in police stations and magistrates courts. The Secretary of State went on to say:

“Taxpayers money is being used to pay for frivolous claims, to foot the legal bills of wealthy criminals, and to cover cases which run on and on racking up large fees for a small number lawyers.”

The proposals seek to deal with that; for very high cost cases, I welcome that.

Police stations and magistrates courts have been under cost control for a number of years, with real-terms cuts. Is there evidence that the system has lost credibility with the public and we must change the system wholesale by introducing price competitive tendering? I think not. When we look at the elements of our system and ask what is delivering quality and what is making us proud of it, we see that it is the fact that it is based on the principle of choice. Yes, we can look at procurement going forward, but we cannot undermine the principle of choice.

When we look at those that I and others have represented over the years, we can characterise them as the good, the bad and the ugly. Choice ensures that the most heinous, wretched criminal is represented and has a choice of lawyer. The most worthy of saints also gets the choice of lawyer, without judgment or conditions. That is an important principle of which we can be proud. It means that, when dealing with the regular clients that I have represented over the years, we can enter a timely guilty plea, which is efficient; we can achieve a sentence that takes account of their mental health needs or drug needs and go the extra mile to make sure that they get drug rehabilitation.

We can also represent the young innocent because their parent has asked us to go down to the police station. They want to choose someone they trust, who can understand the person’s special educational needs, problems of communication or learning difficulties. They need their own solicitor to be involved. We must have choice, yes to protect the vulnerable but also to ensure quality, to ensure that there is a client base that is protected and maintained but also to ensure mutual trust and good will in the system.

Let us look at the costs of justice so that we can deliver efficiency. But let us also listen to the Ministry of Justice over the years, which has said that choice is the key deliverer of quality. Let us listen to Lord Carter, who conducted an independent review and said that choice had to be maintained. Let us also recognise our small firms, who make up three quarters of legal aid firms and do the business end—the 90% of cases that go through to magistrates courts. They are delivering out of good will—yes, they are paid, but a fairly limited wage—because they care about the system. They need to be maintained and encouraged. We need to go along with it, with a timetable and proper consultation so that we deliver an efficient justice system for the benefit of all.