Yorkshire Devolution

Dan Jarvis Excerpts

Tuesday 9th January 2018 Westminster Hall

[Dan Jarvis (Barnsley Central) (Lab)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered Yorkshire devolution.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Pritchard, and it is a pleasure to see the Minister still in his post—not that there was any doubt of that, I am sure. This debate comes at a critical moment for our region. I was struck by the words of Archbishop John Sentamu, who said this morning:

“Today, our elected leaders have an unprecedented opportunity to repay the trust vested in them by the people and to forge an exciting new future for this great county.”

He went on to say:

“I pray that we will live this out recognising that we have more in common spiritually, culturally, socially, economically, and politically than which divides us…Together we are Yorkshire.”

What eloquent and wise words they are. In delivering them, Archbishop John has set both the standard and the tone for this debate.

All of us here have a responsibility to work co-operatively together to best serve the interests of our region. In that spirit, today I will propose what I hope is a constructive way forward for a future devolved settlement for Yorkshire and the Humber. Before I do, let me say a word about how we got to where we are.

[Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)]

May I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this very timely debate? I also want to congratulate him on making sure that we are talking about Yorkshire and the Humber. The Humber is essential if we are going to make devolution in Yorkshire and the Humber work, because of the energy estuary and the fact that the north and south banks provide the second largest port complex in the UK—they are vital to this deal.

[Dan Jarvis]

My hon. Friend makes an important point: the Humber is absolutely vital to this devolved settlement. Whenever I discuss this, I always have her in mind and am always careful to make sure that I speak the words “Yorkshire and the Humber,” but I am grateful to her for reminding us.

I was in the process of reflecting on how we got to where we are. All hon. Members will know that last year, as other parts of the country moved ahead with their devolution deals, we reached an impasse in Yorkshire. In response, the councils of Barnsley and Doncaster held a community poll on devolution.

[Stephanie Peacock (Barnsley East) (Lab)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this important debate. Does he agree that the very clear result of the community poll sends a strong message to the Government that the people of Barnsley would like a wider devolution deal? With that result in mind, the Government should work with Sir Steve Houghton and Barnsley Council to produce a deal that reflects the overwhelming will of the people of Barnsley. A fresh approach could end the inequality between north and south that has existed for too long.

[Dan Jarvis]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend and neighbour, with whom I agree. The people of Barnsley and Doncaster were given a very clear choice of whether they wanted their local authority to pursue a Sheffield city region deal or a wider Yorkshire deal. I am very pleased that the people of Barnsley and Doncaster made their voices heard. Some 85% voted in favour of a wider Yorkshire deal, and in doing so endorsed the approach that their council leaders had taken. They showed those of us who proudly represent the people of Yorkshire and the Humber the scale of their ambition for devolution. For those of us who represent Barnsley and Doncaster, our marching orders are clear.

[Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con)]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Dan Jarvis]

I will give way in just one moment, once I have given the marching orders as they have been sent to those of us representing Barnsley and Doncaster. The marching orders are thus: go back to the Government and get the deal the people want.

[Philip Davies]

Would it not have been more helpful if the community poll had been held before Doncaster and Barnsley signed up to a South Yorkshire deal? In fact, it seems to me that the community poll showed that they had been so badly led by the Labour leaders in Barnsley and Doncaster that they had signed up to something that they clearly did not want. Surely the community poll should have been held before they signed up to the deal, not afterwards.

[Dan Jarvis]

If I might say so, I think that is a very strange interpretation of the result. The result was a decisive mandate for the leadership of Barnsley and Doncaster councils and a clear endorsement of the wider Yorkshire deal. It is absolutely right that we listen to what the people have told us. If we do not, we will be failing not only to listen but to understand that, right now, for parts of the country and particularly in the north of England, as I hope the hon. Gentleman would acknowledge, the status quo is not delivering. People are disillusioned, and they have a right to feel that way. Just over 18 months ago, the people of Barnsley and Doncaster overwhelmingly voted for Brexit, in part because they felt powerless and in part because they felt tired—tired of being left behind and powerless to do anything about it. It is not hard to see why. Not only do the people of Yorkshire receive an income that is 80% of the national average, but they also receive £300 per head less in terms of public spending, which results in education and health outcomes lagging well behind those of more prosperous regions.

[Paula Sherriff (Dewsbury) (Lab)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this debate. Does he share my frustration at the recent Budget, in which areas that had secured a regional deal received large amounts of money, whereas the Yorkshire and Humber area seemed to be left behind?

[Dan Jarvis]

I absolutely share the frustration that my hon. Friend expresses. I am seeking today to engage in the most constructive fashion with the northern powerhouse Minister, and I think this represents a very important opportunity for him and for the Secretary of the State to send the strongest signal of intent to the north of England that they are listening to what people are saying, and are prepared to make decisions that best serve those people’s interests.

[Judith Cummins (Bradford South) (Lab)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this very important debate. Does he agree that, if Government get behind the coalition of the willing, a deal for Yorkshire will be possible? The Secretary of State needs to deal with this issue with the utmost importance and get a date in his diary to meet with Yorkshire leaders as a matter of urgency. To do otherwise would be a terrible indictment of his commitment to securing a deal for Yorkshire.

[Dan Jarvis]

I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend. She knows that this Friday in York, the coalition of the willing—leaders from across our area—will meet to reaffirm their support for the wider Yorkshire proposal. I very much hope that when the Minister sums up, he is able to confirm that either he or the Secretary of State will arrange a meeting to sit down with those local government leaders and discuss the way forward.

I was explaining the fact that results in education and health outcomes mean that in our area we lag behind other more affluent parts of the country. I do not begrudge any other part of the country its affluence, but I do understand why people in our region are disillusioned and angry. That desire for Brexit, and the need for devolution, are symptoms of the same malaise. I believe that if we are to make Britain healthy again and heal its divisions, we need a new economic and political settlement that involves genuine devolution of political and economic power that will spread prosperity and opportunity to towns and counties of all regions.

In short, if we are serious about closing the north-south divide, piecemeal changes simply are not good enough. The solution must be as ambitious as the challenge is profound. That is why I believe that a wider Yorkshire deal is the way forward. By working together across the whole of our county and, like in the west midlands, not being confined to just one city, we would have the collective clout and the brand reputation to co-operate and compete not only with other parts of the UK, but with other parts of the world.

[Kevin Hollinrake (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)]

The hon. Gentleman talks about “wider Yorkshire” and “one Yorkshire”. Are his constituents who voted in the recent referendum aware that it will not encompass all of Yorkshire because Sheffield does not want to be part of that settlement? Are they aware of that?

[Dan Jarvis]

If the hon. Gentleman bears with me, he will hear me refer to that later in my speech. The purpose of this debate and of my remarks is to try to move us from where we are now to a place that delivers the best opportunities collectively for our region. My constituents were very clear about what they were voting for—a wider Yorkshire deal—because they believed that that would be in their economic interests.

The economic case for the wider deal is profound. That is why it is supported not just by the Confederation of British Industry, but by the Federation of Small Businesses and the Trades Union Congress. When Carolyn Fairbairn, the director general of the CBI, told The Yorkshire Post that wider devolution would be

“good for jobs, good for growth”,

and for unlocking investment and building confidence, I could not have agreed more. When Bill Adams, regional secretary of the Yorkshire TUC, told The Yorkshire Post that we can

“combine the advanced manufacturing of South Yorkshire with the energy hub and ports of Humberside, the tourism and agriculture of the North with the financial and manufacturing centres of West Yorkshire”,

I could not have agreed more. Both nationally and internationally, a single Mayor would provide the single voice required to unlock the much-needed new investment. That is critically required in areas such as our transport system.

The inequality in transport spending between north and south has been well documented, but it is worth repeating just how bad the situation has become. London is set to receive 10 times more transport investment than Yorkshire. Because of that, Yorkshire’s transport system is out of date, unreliable and expensive. The separation of transport executives, each with its own precept and fares structure, makes short journeys, such as the 20-minute trip from York to Doncaster, prohibitively expensive. Twenty pounds for an anytime day return is too expensive for working people, and far too expensive to promote the growth that our region needs. A wider Yorkshire combined authority directing investment decisions and using its purchasing power to negotiate with transport providers would address that lack of integration, improve bus and rail services, promote growth and leverage further investment.

Devolution is about more than just transport infrastructure. It is about accessing funding for skills and training, building affordable homes, and preserving our unique culture, countryside and heritage by working together, harnessing our talents, combining our energies and maximising our influence, all of which is in reach.

The people of Barnsley and Doncaster identify with being part of Yorkshire, as do people across our region. The sense of place, community and belonging that comes from identifying with Yorkshire is, in many ways, our greatest asset. As such, we need to make use of it, but I accept that all that is easier said than done, because first we need a consensus between the Government and local authorities in our region. For that to happen, we need a new plan that is carefully considered and painstakingly developed and comes from listening to and understanding all the different views. That will take more time, so first we need an interim solution not only to preserve the goal of a wider Yorkshire deal, but to allow the Sheffield city region to begin to see the benefits of devolution and give everyone concerned the time and space needed to work on a deal.

With the right political will, I believe that holding a wider Yorkshire mayoral election in 2020 is entirely reasonable and achievable, but as things stand we are on course to elect a Mayor of the Sheffield city region in May. The newly elected Mayor would have so few powers that spending up to £2 million on this election would undermine not just his or her position, but the credibility of the whole devolution project. People in Barnsley and Doncaster would rightly feel further disenfranchised and ignored. Indeed, if we are prepared to ignore an 85% majority, what does that say about the state of our democracy?

Today, the leaders of Barnsley and Doncaster councils have written to the Secretary of State setting out a clear plan proposing that an interim Mayor of a Sheffield city region should be appointed for two years while negotiations for a wider Yorkshire deal proceed. That follows the precedent set by my hon. Friend the Member for Rochdale (Tony Lloyd), who at the time was the police and crime commissioner for Greater Manchester and was appointed the interim Mayor of Greater Manchester in 2015, with an election being held two years later.

That would mean that the Sheffield city region could access the money and powers sooner rather than later, and that the four councils could consult on a scheme in respect of the additional powers contained in the existing Sheffield city region deal. It would also leave those councils that wish to proceed with a wider Yorkshire deal—the so-called coalition of the willing—free to continue their negotiations and potentially to form a shadow combined authority in which they could work for a wider Yorkshire deal. Barnsley and Doncaster would then be free to join that wider deal as and when it is agreed. Sheffield and Rotherham would also be free to join it, or they could continue with their own city region deal and hold an election at the same time in 2020. That framework embodies both compromise and progress. It is a good offer.

In conclusion, I ask only that the Minister listens to the people of Barnsley and Doncaster. They were very clear in what they said, and it would be wrong for them to be ignored, not least because the Secretary of State was right when he told the Local Government Association that the driving force behind devolution is the desire to bring decision making to a more local level. Now that the people of Barnsley and Doncaster have made their decision—all we want is the very best for Yorkshire and the Humber—we need to put that decision into practice.

[Kevin Hollinrake]

Does the hon. Gentleman’s plan mean that other areas of Yorkshire would not be able to push ahead with a deal before 2020, even if they wanted to? Does it stop anyone else moving forward with their own deal?

[Dan Jarvis]

The hon. Gentleman would accept—or I hope he would—that the majority of local councils, including North Yorkshire, West Yorkshire and South Yorkshire, have indicated their support for a wider Yorkshire deal. That is what they will be discussing in York. This is not a political argument, in the sense that there is cross-party support. As I am sure he acknowledges, there are some incredibly decent and talented members of his own party, leaders of local government, who strongly share the view that it is in our collective interest to have that wider deal.

We now need a process of negotiation, which is why I very much welcomed the fact that the Secretary of State sent a letter to the leaders of Barnsley and Doncaster councils just before Christmas. It was a very good letter, which initiated a process of negotiation that we are developing further today. It is important that we do that while being mindful that we are working to achieve what is in the best interests of the people we are elected to serve.

[Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this debate. Would the discussions he envisages involve the north Lincolnshire authorities? As he said, it is important that the whole of the Humber, as well as Yorkshire, is involved in this process.

[Dan Jarvis]

I absolutely would envisage that. I hope my hon. Friend is able to put that point to the Minister, because I would be interested to hear the Government’s view. My view, as I reflected a moment ago, is that it is incredibly important that the deal is for Yorkshire and the Humber—both banks. Therefore, as part of the coalition of the willing, it is very important that the partnership relationship exists.

[Alec Shelbrooke (Elmet and Rothwell) (Con)]

I have listened carefully to what the hon. Gentleman is saying, and I seek clarification on his comments; I am happy to be corrected if I am wrong in my understanding. Is he saying that at the end of the process, if Sheffield and Rotherham councils do not want to break away from the Sheffield deal and carry on, only Barnsley and Doncaster councils will come into the Yorkshire deal, and Sheffield and Rotherham will stay separate and on their own? That is not the Yorkshire deal. Is this just a mechanism for Barnsley and Doncaster to remove themselves from the deal agreed on and come into another deal? That would undermine the whole “one Yorkshire” argument that he is making. I seek clarification on those points.

[Dan Jarvis]

The hon. Gentleman makes a reasonable point. It is designed to be a mechanism that provides the best possible deal for our region. I think that everybody here would accept that we have fallen behind. Other parts of the country, such as the west midlands, Greater Manchester and the city of Liverpool, are now moving forward with the devolution deals that they have agreed.

What we are looking to achieve is an arrangement that would give Barnsley and Doncaster the flexibility to move into a wider Yorkshire deal in 2020 if that were an option, but would also not bind the hands of our good colleagues and neighbours in South Yorkshire, Sheffield and Rotherham. It would be for them, in consultation with the Government and other members of the combined authority, to take a view on whether they see their future as part of a Yorkshire deal or wish to proceed with their own Sheffield city region deal, which could include neighbouring parts of the country as well.

[Alec Shelbrooke]

I am most grateful to the hon. Gentleman for being generous with his time. To develop that point, is it suggested that the East-West-North Yorkshire deal would be developed, and that Barnsley and Doncaster could then choose to join it, or is that what would happen at the start? If councils in West, East or North Yorkshire did not want to join in with South Yorkshire, would they be able to stay out of it?

[Dan Jarvis]

The hon. Gentleman rightly presses me on points of detail. Those are precisely the points that will be discussed by the coalition of the willing when it meets in York on Friday, and they are precisely the important points that should be discussed in any subsequent meeting with those leaders and either the Minister or the Secretary of State. However, the purpose of this debate is to provide a response to the constructive letter received by the leaders of Barnsley and Doncaster from the Secretary of State just before Christmas, and to continue that process of negotiation, so that we can work towards a deal that best serves the interests of the people across our region.

[Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab)]

I thank my hon. Friend for securing this debate. I feel comfortable with a lot of what he has said; it is based on the Secretary of State’s letter before Christmas saying that if districts want to leave the Sheffield combined authority city region at some stage for another arrangement, they should be free to do so, but equally, if districts want to remain there, particularly Sheffield and Rotherham, they should be free to have a devolution deal.

My one concern about his proposal—I have spoken to him about this—is whether it sends the right signal, given that devolution is ultimately about transferring powers to people. The first thing that we are saying to people is, “You can have a Mayor and an arranged devolution deal from May, but by the way, you can’t be involved in electing this Mayor; the political leaders will choose them.” I am not sure that that sends the right signals to people about what devolution is all about.

[Dan Jarvis]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend, and I was grateful for the opportunity to discuss this with him earlier. I appreciate that there is much in what I have said that he feels he can agree with. He raises an important point, but it must be set against the fact that an overwhelmingly decisive mandate has just been delivered to the leaders of Doncaster and Barnsley councils not to pursue the Sheffield city region deal. I accept that these are perhaps imperfect solutions, and I accept that we are not in the place where any of us would have liked to be when we embarked on this journey some time ago, but the most recent democratic mandate is the one delivered emphatically by the people of Barnsley and Doncaster just a couple of weeks ago.

[Julian Sturdy (York Outer) (Con)]

I am listening carefully to what the hon. Gentleman is saying; he is making an articulate argument. I agree that we need a solution for Yorkshire, and that that solution must be ambitious, as he said. However, I want to pick up on one point that he made. He mentioned a wider Yorkshire deal by 2020. I know that he is making the case for Barnsley and Doncaster, but as an MP for York and North Yorkshire, the idea that we might not have devolution until 2020 worries me. Will he consider bringing forward devolution in other areas across the county as well, such as in the greater Yorkshire deal, and then considering amalgamating it all, perhaps by 2020, into a wider Yorkshire deal, so that all areas of our great county start to get the benefits of devolution?

[Dan Jarvis]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. It is interesting, in the run-up to this debate, that some people have said to me that we should press for a wider Yorkshire settlement earlier than 2020, and other people have said that it is unrealistic to expect that a deal could be done within that time frame. His basic point is absolutely right: we need to work constructively with the Minister and the Department to strain every sinew to ensure that our part of the world has, at the very least, an equal playing field on which to compete with other parts of the world.

I will make one further point, which is the essence of the case that I am trying to make. I do not say for one moment that Yorkshire and the Humber should be a special case, but I do believe—I make no apologies for stating it in these terms—that it is a special place. There is something special about what John Sentamu described this morning as God’s own county. There is a huge strength in our diversity. If we could create an arrangement that brought together 5.3 million people into an economy bigger than 11 EU nations, we would truly be a force to be reckoned with, not just in this country but around the world. In the far east—China, Japan or wherever—people know about Yorkshire. It means something to them, and it means something to us. This is a once-in-a-generation opportunity to put in place an arrangement that could be really meaningful for the people we represent, and I very much hope that we will not miss out.

In conclusion, I reflect back on the decisive results delivered across the north of South Yorkshire just before Christmas. We need to put into practice the decision taken by those people. We need to find a solution and to seize this once-in-a-generation opportunity that we have been given to drive forward the northern powerhouse and give the Yorkshire region the chance to transform its economic and political future. I say to the Minister in all good faith that not many Ministers are given the opportunity to do what he has the opportunity to do now. I hope that he will take it up.

[Mark Pritchard (in the Chair)]

We have at least nine Members standing, and nine or 10 minutes to spare. I can call nine people for one minute, or fewer people for longer. Following Mr Speaker’s example of trying to empower Back Benchers, I call Kevin Hollinrake.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dan Jarvis]

I am grateful to all hon. Members for their constructive contributions to the debate. This is a hugely important issue at a hugely important time. The Minister is right that the process goes back several years, but since 2015 a number of very significant things have happened that he did not reflect on. There was not then, as there is now, a coherent body of local authorities working constructively to achieve a wider Yorkshire deal. A lot has changed since 2015, not least that Britain has taken a massively strategically important decision to leave the European Union, or that we do not have the footprint that was originally envisaged for the Sheffield city region.

I absolutely welcome the letter from the Secretary of State before Christmas; its tone was very constructive and helpful. However, when the Minister raised concerns about the ability to legislate for any change, I thought he was being a little under-ambitious. Where there is political will to make changes, it should be entirely possible to do so.

I very much hope that the Government will look carefully at the detail of the letter. I accept that the Minister has received it only relatively recently, but it is a good offer that provides a sound basis for a further process of negotiation. That process must begin today and continue throughout the rest of the week, because the clock is ticking and it is in all our interests to work together to secure the best possible deal. That is what I am prepared to do, as I am sure everybody else here is.