Business of the House

Clive Betts Excerpts

Thursday 17th October 2024 Commons Chamber

[Lucy Powell]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for raising the issue. As I hope he is aware, there is a long-established convention and practice that the smaller parties have representation on Committees, especially Members from the devolved nations on their relative Select Committee. That process is still ongoing. Some names are mentioned on the order paper today, but they only relate to some of the places that are to be allocated. Those conversations are continuing through the usual channels. It is my understanding that there will be places available on some of those Committees for Members of the Scottish National party and some of the other smaller parties.

[Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab)]

Will the Leader of the House arrange for a debate about how we can build more social housing and improve accommodation for homeless people? She is aware that there is a homeless hostel in my constituency called Bevin Court. St Anne’s Community Services would like to improve and renovate the hostel, and pay for that by selling off some of the land and building social housing on it, which would require a change in the covenant by Government. Lawyers have spent 12 months arguing about this and got nowhere. I wrote to Ministers in the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities in the previous Government, but the matter was passed on to the Ministry of Justice. In this Parliament, I have written to the Ministry of Justice but it has been passed back to the Housing Minister. Will the Leader of the House intervene to try to get this important project off the ground, and simply get the change of covenant that the organisation is asking for?

[Lucy Powell]

My hon. Friend raises a really important matter, and it sounds like that project is vital for creating more social homes in his constituency of Sheffield South East. I am really sorry to hear that he has been passed from pillar to post by different Departments, and this is exactly the sort of issue to raise in business questions. I expect Members to receive timely and helpful responses from Ministers, and I will raise the issue with the relevant Departments as soon as I leave the Chamber.

Business of the House

Clive Betts Excerpts

Thursday 21st March 2024 Commons Chamber

[Penny Mordaunt]

My hon. Friend will know that on Monday, the Prime Minister set out a package of reforms to support businesses, including £60 million of new investment to enable more apprenticeships to be created. We are also slashing unnecessary regulatory burdens through our Brexit freedoms programme and saving about £150 million a year for thousands of small businesses. I thank my hon. Friend for all the work he is doing in his constituency to ensure that people are benefiting from these initiatives.

[Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab)]

The First Reading of the Football Governance Bill last week was welcome, but when will we see Second Reading? There was no mention of it in today’s business statement. We want to get the Bill through in time before the general election so that it becomes law, as it has widespread support.

One thing that was not mentioned at all was the Renters (Reform) Bill. Where has that got to? All we have read about are discussions, debates and arguments between Ministers and Tory Back Benchers over changes that might be made to the Bill. In the meantime, hundreds of people are being evicted through section 21 notices, and families and children are being made homeless. When will the Government bring back this important legislation, which has widespread cross-party support?

[Penny Mordaunt]

May I start by thanking the hon. Gentleman, on behalf of us all, for all the work that he has done across the House on the Football Governance Bill, and all the stakeholder engagement that he has overseen? I have attended many of those meetings, and I know that colleagues are grateful for his efforts. These are important community assets as well as businesses. When Portsmouth faced closure, I could not say to my constituents, “Don’t worry: Southampton is just down the road; you can watch your football there.” It would not have worked. I know he is eager for the Renters (Reform) Bill to return, and I am glad that he welcomes that. He knows I will say that further business will be announced in the usual way, but I will ensure that officials in that Department have heard what he said.

Business of the House

Clive Betts Excerpts

Wednesday 25th September 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab)]

I am sure the Leader of the House is forward-thinking. In anticipation that his motion for tomorrow may not be carried, he is probably thinking what business might be considered next week instead. Would that thinking include an announcement on a social care Green Paper, which the House has been waiting for for the last three years?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

Unfortunately, I have to keep the hon. Gentleman in suspense, but I can reassure him that there will be an exciting announcement tomorrow, in a statement from me, and all will be revealed as to what may happen under certain circumstances, or under different circumstances. But Opposition Members, in the spirit of generosity that has been emerging at this late hour, may well vote for the conference recess so that the Manchester economy can be protected, and so that the sauce that the goose has already had shall become sauce for the gander, to use a term that the Prime Minister favours.

Parliamentary Buildings (Restoration and Renewal) Bill

Clive Betts Excerpts

2nd reading: House of Commons & Money resolution: House of Commons & Programme motion: House of Commons
Tuesday 21st May 2019 Commons Chamber

[Andrea Leadsom]

I pay tribute to the right hon. Gentleman, who is the spokesman for the House Commission and has supported the work to get this Palace restored. He is right to point to the work under way on not only Richmond House as the temporary decant but the northern estate programme. Unfortunately, some of the other buildings used by Members require urgent upgrades to wiring, plumbing, air conditioning, bomb-proofing and so on. He is right to draw the House’s attention to the need for all Members to provide their feedback on our plans to upgrade those buildings.

[Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab)]

I thank the Leader of the House for approaching this on a cross-party basis and the way she has engaged so far with the Finance Committee, of which I am a member. She is right to say that this is a moment of decision. We have had reviews, committees, commissions and reports. It is not a case of going back; it is about making a decision today. I agree with my right hon. Friend the Member for Birkenhead (Frank Field) about austerity, but this is not about austerity or restoring this Palace. It is about ending austerity and dealing with this Palace. Is that not right?

[Andrea Leadsom]

I completely agree with the hon. Gentleman; he makes a very good point. We of course recognise the needs of the poorest in our society, and as a Government and a Parliament, we always seek to alleviate poverty, but this is a very significant issue. We want to preserve for future generations our historic building, which is a UNESCO world heritage site and the home of our democracy. Frankly, we have to work from somewhere, and this building is extraordinarily difficult and complex to review. I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his work on the Finance Committee.

This Parliament will have the opportunity to look at the outline business case, which will set out clearly the costs and deliverables during 2021, once we have established the Sponsor Body and Delivery Authority in statute. I hope the House will agree to do that today, so that those bodies can get on with the work to ensure that we get the best value for taxpayers’ money.

Business of the House

Clive Betts Excerpts

Thursday 26th May 2016 Commons Chamber

[Dr Coffey]

My hon. Friend raises a serious point about an industry that is hugely important to ensuring that UK plc keeps motoring and that people have homes to live in. I would encourage her to apply to the Backbench Business Committee, when it meets shortly, because I am sure that many people would be interested in such a debate.

[Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab)]

It was announced on Tuesday that Polestar, a printing works in my constituency, would close with a loss of 650 jobs. That followed the loss of 600 jobs at Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs and 700 jobs at HSBC. This has all come in a short period. As well as immediate help for the Polestar workers, could we have a debate on what the Government can do to assist areas where a multiplicity of significant redundancies are announced across different sectors in a short period?

[Dr Coffey]

I recognise that job losses such as those at Polestar will be a blow to the local economy, but the Government are committed to the northern powerhouse and to Sheffield. The Department for Business, Innovation and Skills has been working closely with the local council and the local enterprise partnership to produce an enhanced devolution deal. That landmark deal includes £328 million in growth deal resources for the next five years. I hope that the hon. Gentleman can work with the council and the LEP, as BIS has done, to ensure that we create new jobs for the future.

House of Commons (Administration) Bill

Clive Betts Excerpts

Wednesday 24th February 2016 Public Bill Committees

[Dr Coffey]

I thank my hon. Friend for what he just said. Let me say in response to the right hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne East that there has been considerable consideration of this issue by my right hon. and hon. Friends in the Treasury. The Government believe that merging the Administration and the Members estimates, to which the right hon. Gentleman referred, would require relinquishing Government oversight of the Members estimate and therefore reducing the Government’s ability to scrutinise costs. Given the current fiscal environment, the Treasury would like to continue to be able to offer that scrutiny and support to the House of Commons to keep expenditure down. As my hon. Friend the Member for Mole Valley mentioned, we are keen for the Bill to go forward, but we are also keen to keep that scrutiny.

[Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab)]

Will the Minister give way?

[Dr Coffey]

I have sat down.

[Mr Betts]

I hoped the Minister was going to give way because, with respect, she did not answer the question. The issue at this stage is not whether we should amalgamate the two estimates, though there is actually quite a strong case for that, given the disparity in size. If the Treasury really is so upset about £22 million that it thinks we need this great panoply of extra audit committees, extra scrutiny and extra laying of separate estimates, it has got its priorities a little bit wrong. In every other respect, the Government and the Treasury are encouraging public bodies to look for easy administrative savings—sometimes quite difficult ones—by sharing. That is what they are encouraging local government to do.

The question that my right hon. Friend the Member for Newcastle upon Tyne East asked the Minister was: is it not true that the Bill as drafted does not ensure the amalgamation of the two estimates, but simply enables that to happen, with a very important caveat, which is that the Treasury can say no; and if the Treasury’s position remains that it does not want to approve the amalgamation, it can maintain that position? The Bill as drafted has an enabling provision whereby if in the future all the parties agree that it is a good idea to amalgamate the estimates, that amalgamation can take place. The Treasury would still have a veto, but if there were a change of mood, approach or position in the future, we would not need another piece of primary legislation to enable that to happen. We all know—some of us better than others—how long it has taken to get this piece of primary legislation this far.

All the Bill does is enable. The Bill still leaves the Treasury in the driving seat if it wants to remain there. I really do not understand the Minister’s position. She did not answer the fundamental question that my right hon. Friend raised, and it would be helpful if she responded to it.

[The Chair]

The Minister is indicating that she does not wish to speak.

[Dr Coffey]

I feel that I have responded. I can read exactly the same response into the record if that is required but, as I have already said, there has been considerable consideration by the Government. The answer I gave to the right hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne East is still valid, and it is the answer that I offer on behalf of the Government. I am not sure why my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch believes that I have not said anything, because I have replied. He may not have liked my reply, and the hon. Member for Sheffield South East may not like it either, but I have replied.

[Mr Betts]

Will the Minister give way?

[Dr Coffey]

No, I will not give way, because I have replied to the right hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne East.

English Votes on English Laws

Clive Betts Excerpts

Tuesday 7th July 2015 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

I will make a little more progress, because a lot of people are waiting to speak.

I am reticent about using legislation, because this House currently determines its own rules and procedures, rather than the courts. The boundaries between the courts and Parliament are long established and well respected. There is a principle of mutual respect, which means that the courts will not generally challenge the means by which legislation is passed or decisions taken in Parliament. There is a strong feeling in the House that using legislation to govern our legislative process would risk opening it up to legal challenge and that ultimate authority may pass from you, Mr Speaker, to the courts. We therefore have to be immensely careful.

Parts of the processes of the House have been legislated on, but I think that it would be better to consider the issue of legislation in 12 months’ time as part of the review, when we have seen the detail of how this works and invited the Procedure Committee to look in detail at how to make it work as effectively as possible. It is important that we are careful.

[Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab)]

So far, the Leader of the House has talked about the position of Scottish and Welsh MPs. Some of us in this House believe passionately that there should be devolution to local authority areas in England. If there was devolution to combined local authority areas in England, would it be his intention to come back with proposed changes to Standing Orders to affect the voting position of the MPs who come from those areas?

[Chris Grayling]

The hon. Gentleman is not taking into account the fact that what we have in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland is legislative devolution—they have the power to make laws. When there is devolution in England, for example to the Mayor of London, we do not devolve the power to legislate. The Chamber that legislates for England is this one. That is why we have to ensure that within what is and must remain a United Kingdom Parliament, we offer to English or English and Welsh Members of Parliament the decisive say over matters that exclusively affect their constituencies.

Devolution (Implications for England)

Clive Betts Excerpts

Tuesday 16th December 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

My hon. and learned Friend has himself made a very strong case. He is right to say that England is more than a collection of regions. That is one of many reasons why a federal solution is not available to us in this context, and why it is important for the proper rights of the representatives—the parliamentary representatives —of England to be enhanced.

[Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab)]

The Leader of the House referred to the voting powers of Scottish and Welsh Members of Parliament, although not, I think, to those of Northern Ireland Members. As more powers are devolved to London and combined authorities in England, will MPs from those areas continue to have full voting rights on all matters, including devolved matters, in the House as well?

[Mr Hague]

As I made clear in my statement, it is certainly the view of the Conservative party that law-making powers should reside here at Westminster, for England. To be fair to the Liberal Democrats, they have put forward a different concept that can include the devolution of legislative power within England, but I am not advancing that cause. Laws that relate to England would continue to be made in the House of Commons, and, according to our options, would require the consent of English Members of Parliament.

Finances of the House of Commons

Clive Betts Excerpts

Tuesday 11th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab)]

May I apologise to you, Mr Deputy Speaker, to the House and to the Chair of the Finance and Services Committee, the right hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross (John Thurso), for not being here for the start of his speech? I was otherwise detained. I must also apologise as I will have to leave just before 4 o’clock to chair a Select Committee. As a member of the Finance and Services Committee, however, I want to say a few words to the House on this annual occasion when we explain what we have been doing with the House’s finances during the previous Session, and present the financial plan for the years ahead and the estimates for next year.

I join other Members in thanking the Chair of the Committee for his able and outstanding leadership over not only the last Session but the whole Parliament, as he has brought us together to make some often difficult decisions. As has rightly been said, the fact that there are so few Members here today with complaints to make—and certainly none who wants to suggest amendments—demonstrates that we have just about got the decisions right. The remit we were given at the beginning of the Parliament was challenging, in that we had to make 17% cuts in real terms over the course of this Parliament. Our first criterion was that we had to make those cuts without affecting the ability of Members to do their job, and I think that we have achieved our aim. I have not heard Members saying that their job is now more difficult to do because of the cuts. I think we have managed this programme in a proper way.

These expenditure reductions are larger than those being attempted in virtually any other central Government Department during the same period, although perhaps not so large as those that some local councils are having to deal with. In making the reductions, we have also tried to ensure that this building is no less welcoming to visitors, and in particular to our constituents when they come to see how Parliament operates. I think we have achieved that as well. Having listened to the speech from the right hon. Member for Saffron Walden (Sir Alan Haselhurst), I think we should give credit to the Administration Committee for its work on making this place even more welcoming to visitors, who now have more opportunities to buy when they come here and who also have a greater variety of things to do. That is certainly commendable.

We are now working on the launch of the new education centre, which is welcome. It is important that visitors can come in here to see how Parliament operates and to look at this magnificent building even when we are not sitting, but it is even more important when those visitors are children who are coming here to get an educational experience and to see how Parliament operates and learn about the workings of our democracy. That is something that we have achieved despite the expenditure reductions.

Some of us would say that the replacement of mountains of paper by our iPads has resulted in an improvement in our working conditions. We have achieved a lot of the reductions that we were aiming for through major cuts in our printing budget. Not every hon. Member shares the view that iPads represent an improvement, but for many they have certainly introduced a more efficient way of working.

I also want to give credit to the Clerk who has just retired, and to the management team, for their efforts in advising the Finance and Services Committee by giving us all the options, alternatives and information to help us to make the right decisions and recommendations to the Commission. Our thanks should extend beyond the Officers of the House who give us advice directly. I am thinking of the work of the catering staff, particularly over the past few years. They have made major alterations to their working arrangements—to accommodate the changes in sitting hours, among other things—while maintaining their professionalism and continuing to provide the excellent service that we have come to expect from them. I should put on record that we in the parliamentary football club will shortly be playing our annual game against the parliamentary chefs. This is one of the ways in which Parliament comes together. It shows that we have a genuine working relationship and that we can enjoy such activities together.

[Sir Alan Haselhurst]

I hope that the hon. Gentleman will ensure that his team does not disable our chefs.

[Mr Betts]

I shall have a special word with our referee, Dermot Gallagher, to ensure that all our activities are conducted properly, and I shall pass on the right hon. Gentleman’s concerns. Perhaps he would like to come and increase the crowd numbers on that occasion? He would certainly be most welcome; his arrival would probably double the number standing on the touchline.

My hon. Friend the Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) has mentioned our security staff. They have experienced a lot of concerns in recent years, not least the uncertainty over their future employment. I am talking not about the police but about the other security staff here. They were unsure whether they were going to be outsourced, whether they were going to stay with the Met or whether they were going to be brought in house. They do an excellent job for us. I understand that discussions are now taking place and that there is a possibility that they might well be brought in house. That is certainly what they want; they make no secret of that. It would give them the certainty and security to enable them to carry on giving us that excellent service. My thanks are widened to include all the staff who work for us. They enable us to act as a Parliament in an efficient and effective way, as well as opening up the building to visitors.

We have done reasonably well during this Parliament, but there will be major challenges in the next one. We have decided on a budget that simply keeps pace with inflation, but we are looking for continuous improvement. The capital challenges on the northern estate and the restoration and renewal project are absolutely massive, and they will be a major focal point for the next Parliament.

It is right that we should consider how we can improve not only our day-to-day working but our scrutiny of the Executive, which is an important role for Parliament. I therefore welcome the budget that has been made available for Select Committees when they can show that extra expenditure in a particular area would enable them to do a better job—whether by commissioning extra research or whatever—of holding the Executive to account. That is another small improvement that we are embarking on in the next Parliament, and I welcome it.

I am delighted to associate myself with the motion on the Order Paper, and I am sure that it will go through unanimously. That in itself is a tribute to the work of the Chair, the right hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross, and I thank him and his Committee for the advice they have given to the Commission over the course of this Parliament.

Devolution (Scotland Referendum)

Clive Betts Excerpts

Tuesday 14th October 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

I will give way a couple more times.

[Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab)]

I thank the Leader of the House for giving way. He said that devolution within the United Kingdom would not be symmetrical, but asymmetrical. Is it not true that it is likely that devolution within England will be asymmetrical as well? It might well be that powers are given to the Mayor of London or the combined authority in Greater Manchester that will not be provided to all local authorities up and down England. Therefore, should MPs in London and Greater Manchester be prevented from voting in this House on matters that are devolved to their local authorities?

[Mr Hague]

I think across the House we want to be practical and pragmatic about the devolution of powers. [Interruption.] Well, I think we do, except in one respect in relation to the Labour party, which I will come on to in a moment. I hope Labour Members will not consider themselves too pragmatic until I come to the relevant part of my speech. Of course, the powers will vary from one local authority to another, but that can also be true within Scotland and within Wales. That still does not address the basic issue of fairness in the United Kingdom as a whole.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir Oliver Heald]

No, not at the moment.

Devolution for England is not an arcane topic—it is a demand of the people. The same constituents who wrote to me very strongly in favour of the Union and Better Together are also writing to me saying, for example:

“We are very encouraged by David Cameron’s determination to put right the inequalities of the…UK.”

Another constituent says:

“English votes on English affairs has the advantage that it is the simplest and cheapest solution”.

Another says:

“The unfair treatment of England must be rectified.”

Yet another says:

“I am not a…Conservative voter, so this is not a Party political view, but it is about time the English were given some self respect…The Labour Party will not like this but the present situation regarding Scottish MPs voting for English issues cannot continue. What’s sauce for the goose has got to be sauce for the gander.”

[Mr Betts]

I have listened very carefully to the words that the hon. and learned Gentleman has used. He talked about “devolution” in England. Frankly, for my constituents in Sheffield it is not devolution if all that changes down here is that English MPs in this Chamber vote on English matters instead of UK Members voting on English matters. That is not devolution as far as Sheffield is concerned.

[Sir Oliver Heald]

I bet that the people of Sheffield want English votes for English laws, and now is the time for that.

One way of resolving this would be completely symmetrical devolution for England and Scotland, with an English Parliament and an English Executive, perhaps located in Birmingham. Some people argue for that, but my view is that it would be costly and that it is unnecessary, given that we have a perfectly good Parliament here.

Since the second world war, Standing Order No. 97 has allowed procedure for Scottish MPs in this place to pass laws for Scotland. It would be easy to adapt that for England. I spent time as a Conservative constitutional affairs spokesman and helped develop a form of English votes for English laws based on that approach. The various commissions that have looked at the issue—from the Conservative democracy taskforce to the recent McKay commission—are all on the same page. It is all about English votes for English laws.

The British public will listen to the arguments deployed by the right hon. Member for Torfaen and some of his colleagues who say, “Oh, it’s all impossibly difficult, technical stuff,” but the fact is that the public are not very interested in academic constitutional arguments; they want a practical solution. English votes for English laws, and English and Welsh votes for English and Welsh laws, is not complicated. It is a simple solution to a simple problem.

As I put it to the former Prime Minister, there is no reason why a Scots MP from Kirkcaldy should vote on education in Letchworth when I do not get a vote on what happens in his constituency. At the moment there are two categories of Members of Parliament: there are those such as the former Prime Minister, who is not allowed to vote on domestic matters in his own constituency, and there are those like as me who are able to vote on such domestic matters. In fact, he is in a category all on his own, because there are things he can vote on in my constituency that he cannot vote on in his own. [Interruption.] He is not here, but if he was he would be able to do that.

We all understand that the Labour party has a lot of Members of Parliament in Scotland and it is obviously concerned about its ability to win a majority in an election. However, English votes for English laws is a demand of the people. If it is not done in the context of this Parliament with our Standing Orders, we will end up with a demand for an English Parliament and an English Executive, which would undercut and sideline this Parliament and be bad for the United Kingdom. Labour should think on that.