Oral Answers to Questions

Claire Perry Excerpts

Tuesday 8th February 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gauke]

We announced in the June Budget corporation tax reductions that will benefit all sectors, including manufacturing. As we can see, so far manufacturing is doing well. Of course, we cannot be complacent, but the early signs are that our policies are helping.

[Claire Perry (Devizes) (Con)]

I want to ask the ministerial team which piece of recent data they find most interesting: the record level of manufacturing activity, the rebound in consumer confidence or the endorsement by the Institute for Fiscal Studies of this Government’s economic policy in paying off the previous Government’s debt?

[Mr Gauke]

It is absolutely clear that this Government are on the right course. There are some encouraging signs, but none the less we must stick to the course. The early indications are, in manufacturing in particular, that that sector of the economy is growing well.

Fuel Costs

Claire Perry Excerpts

Monday 7th February 2011 Commons Chamber

[George Freeman]

My hon. Friend makes an excellent point.

On the wider economy, fuel inflation in rural areas not only affects rural communities but hinders our national economic growth. This goes to the heart of two of the coalition’s laudable objectives: the rebalancing of the economy and promotion of economic growth outside the City of London and our main metropolitan centres; and the attempts to help those sectors of the economy that do more than operate in the service, retail and housing industries—namely, the sectors that make things, transport things and sell things. Those sectors are hit particularly hard and we need to do all that we can to help them.

The reality that those on the Opposition Benches—particularly the Labour Benches—do not want to face is the fact that we have inherited a chronic legacy in our public finances that is costing £120 million a day in interest, which represents £20,000 of debt for every man, woman and child in the country. If we had not tackled the debt crisis, the interest payments would have been heading towards £70 billion a year. I repeat these figures because they need repeating to those on the Labour Benches. It ill behoves a serious party of government to come to the House, as those on the Labour Front Bench did today, and show no recognition of its part in causing this fiscal crisis. Labour Members have made no serious analysis of the rural economy and rural communities—[Interruption.] I wish that they would listen to what I am saying, rather than talking over it. They had no positive suggestions for how we might tackle the problem.

Fuel inflation risks strangling the economic recovery in our most marginal rural communities, but we cannot afford to do what we would like to do to address that. I therefore urge the Government, in accepting the constraints under which they are operating, to look carefully at the options.

[Claire Perry (Devizes) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that we need a sustainable solution, one that will work in bad times as well as good, rather than a knee-jerk reaction to what is clearly a problem for many rural constituencies, including my own?

[George Freeman]

My hon. Friend makes an excellent point. It is vital that we should not go for some short-term gimmick, and that we make a sustainable, serious commitment to helping rural communities and the rural economy.

My constituents and many in other rural constituencies have been encouraged by the Prime Minister’s continued espousal of the benefits of a fair fuel stabiliser. I defer to Ministers and experts in the Treasury on determining the right mechanism for that. We have a duty to make some gesture towards ameliorating this problem, and my plea to the Ministers and Treasury experts is that, whatever mechanism we go for, we focus on two groups in most urgent need: the rural small businesses on which we rely for economic growth and for the jobs in the rural economy on which we all ultimately depend; and the very lowest-paid employees who are struggling to get on and make something of their lives by earning a living. In my constituency, the average income is £17,500, and such people are hit hardest by this serious problem. I urge Ministers to do all that they can in the forthcoming Budget.

Loans to Ireland Bill

Claire Perry Excerpts

Wednesday 15th December 2010 Commons Chamber

[Alan Johnson]

I am grateful for that clarification; we will look at that very carefully. What the Chancellor is saying is that France and Germany, through their IMF contribution—[Interruption.] The Financial Secretary says no. The point I am trying to get at—perhaps the hon. Gentleman can clear this up when he replies to the debate—is that if the UK is putting in a bilateral loan that is equal to the amount that we would have paid as a eurozone member, and we are putting in money through the IMF as well as £2.6 billion through the mechanism, how does that relate to the money that France and Germany are contributing? As far as I am aware, they have no bilateral arrangements, so the money is going through the IMF, or through the stability facility which accounts for only 4% of the resources. That is a point that we need to hear about.

[Claire Perry (Devizes) (Con)]

The shadow Chancellor says that he supports the idea of a bilateral loan because Ireland is such an important trading partner for Britain. I am delighted to hear that he is going to support the Bill. However, will this be another situation like the graduate tax whereby he will say one thing and the rest of the shadow Cabinet will say another?

Autumn Forecast

Claire Perry Excerpts

Monday 29th November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

That was a complete load of nonsense. The independent forecast shows that we are projected to create 1 million jobs, and that the economy will grow more quickly over the next couple of years than the economies of most of our European competitors. Frankly, we inherited from the previous Government an absolutely catastrophic situation in which people called into question Britain’s ability to pay its way in the world. That was the situation we inherited, but I think we have done many things in the past six months to ensure that the British economy is now on the mend.

[Claire Perry (Devizes) (Con)]

I am sure the whole House will welcome chart 1.1 on page 8, which shows that there is almost no probability of a double-dip recession. Does the Chancellor agree with that forecast?

[Mr Osborne]

It is of course an independent forecast, and although the Chancellor does—and will under legislation—have the right to disagree with it, I have not exercised that right today.

Independent Financial Advisers (Regulation)

Claire Perry Excerpts

Monday 29th November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Michael McCann (East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow) (Lab)]

The debate might be in danger of becoming a love-in. [Interruption.] Thank you very much. The hon. Member for Devizes (Claire Perry) was making an open-arms gesture, but I do not know whether I want to go down that route. If détente breaks out, I for one will be delighted. I have been contacted by a number of individuals and groups who have significant concerns about the impact of the retail distribution review.

The review purports to set new parameters for this important sector of our economy, and regulation is at its heart. The chief executive of the Financial Services Authority characterised the review under three main headings, which the hon. Member for Wyre Forest (Mark Garnier) set out—the need for a transparent and fair charging system, greater clarity on the type of advice offered, and a better qualification framework for advisers. I have no quarrel with the first two points. We may differ a little about the content.

It is right that IFAs must disclose their charging structures to clients up front and in writing, so that the client has the information in good time, before the advice process starts. It is right that the IFA must also agree and disclose the total charges that the client will incur as soon as those are known. It is right that, from 1 January 2013, IFAs will be able to make an ongoing charge only where they provide an ongoing service. It is also right that from 1 January 2013, product providers will no longer be able to offer commission on their products, and advisers will no longer be able to receive commission set by product providers. That is just hiding the charges within the commission. The major concern on which I think all participants in the debate agree, however, is the concern of constituents who have contacted me regarding the so-called better qualifications for those who work in the market.

One should not automatically be afraid of higher qualifications for individuals who work in this important sector, but the quality of the debate has not been helped by the tactless, ill-informed and unwise comments of the Financial Secretary to the Treasury, who caused great anger among IFAs during a debate in Westminster Hall, when he compared the current level 3 minimum qualification for advisers to that of a McDonald’s shift worker.

[Claire Perry (Devizes) (Con)]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that, by focusing so narrowly on qualifications, we miss one of the most important things in any investment industry—experience and a track record? By narrowly defining what we think of as the appropriate qualifications, we completely ignore the experience that many IFAs bring to their positions. They will be forced out by such regulation.

[Mr McCann]

I agree entirely, and I shall address that point a little later. It is why my constituents and I were so angered by the comparison of the current level 3 minimum qualification to that of a McDonald’s shift worker. It is, indeed, an insult to the many of thousands of people who work for that company—a company whose products, looking around the Chamber this evening, I am sure a few people have sampled.

--- Later in debate ---

[Guto Bebb]

I accept that point. In particular, I believe that those who are less wealthy in our society will be discriminated against, even though there should be greater encouragement for them to save than other people. That issue relates directly to the damage to choice.

Although I share the Treasury’s view that there is a need to ensure that advice is of a high quality and accept that there has been mis-selling and bad advice—I do not argue against the need for a degree of regulation—it is difficult to accept proposals that even the FSA accepts will result in a reduction in the services that are available to the public. In particular, I remain unconvinced of the merits of the examination process being the be-all and end-all. Are structured learning and examinations really a substitute for experience, integrity and honesty? If I were looking for a financial adviser, those qualities, rather than an exam, would be the first on my list.

[Claire Perry]

Does my hon. Friend agree that one way of taking the matter forward is to allow consumers to decide? We all believe in consumer choice. If the proposed laws were passed and financial advisers had to have letters after their names, we could have a grandfathering clause so that the consumer had a choice. They could go with experience or with somebody who had sat the exams under the new regulations.

[Guto Bebb]

There is a lot of merit in that argument, and I would be encouraged if the FSA were to consider such an approach.

As a Member who represents a rural community, I am well aware that the change will have a much greater impact on smaller financial advisers. After all, the cost of regulation is estimated at about £6,000 per adviser. That could be taken as being reasonable in the context of a large, city-based financial advice firm, but for small firms in my constituency such a regulatory burden could be the difference between remaining in business and leaving business.

At a time when the coalition Government are stating clearly that they want the private sector to create jobs, and that they want to get rid of the red tape and bureaucracy that have stifled a generation of jobs in small businesses, I find it odd that the financial advice sector is being earmarked for different treatment. The financial advisers to whom I have been talking support the coalition fully in trying to reduce the red tape and bureaucracy that small businesses face, but they would like to be included in the discussion.

On rural services, we in Aberconwy have suffered in many ways, such as the closure of small post offices. We have also seen the legal aid franchise service stopped for the time being, creating a real threat of no legal aid services being available in any of the small towns in my constituency. I therefore believe that we should be very concerned about the further attack on small businesses in rural communities that we are discussing this evening.

In many small market towns, financial advice is part and parcel of what people have come to expect. When they go into town on market day, they can do their banking and go to the post office, the local shop and the solicitor, but they can also go to the financial adviser. It is not acceptable that people who live in a rural community will have to drive to the nearest large town, or even perhaps use the banks instead. Banks in rural communities, and certainly in my constituency, are now nothing more than counter services. It is a real problem that services in rural areas are under threat.

My hon. Friend the Member for Ipswich (Ben Gummer) made the point about rural services very strongly in the Westminster Hall debate, and I agree with him, but I would go further. In Aberconwy, many professional firms work through the medium of Welsh. If rural financial advice services are taken away from parts of my constituency, people will lose the ability to go to a local financial adviser and deal with their problems in the language of their choice. People in my community switch between Welsh and English in the same way that people go into a café and choose coffee or tea—it is quite natural for people to use their own language when dealing with their own affairs. I wonder whether larger concerns in more anglicised towns on the coast, or further away in Cheshire, will take into account the need to provide a Welsh-speaking service.

On discrimination against older financial advisers, I question why no grandfather rule is proposed. Why are we not willing to consider experience as being of importance? I shudder at the thought of leaving people in my constituency dependent on the banks rather than having an IFA. If having an independent adviser is good enough for some people in our society, it should be good enough for people in my constituency. The proposals should be reconsidered, and I endorse the call for the FSA to think again about the damage that it is doing to a very important service in my communities.

Financial Assistance (Ireland)

Claire Perry Excerpts

Monday 22nd November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

We are taking this action precisely because, in part, we recognise the specific economic connections between Northern Ireland and southern Ireland. I would be very happy for the Treasury to work with the Northern Ireland Executive on looking at the potential economic impact of what is happening in Ireland. Obviously, the intention is to bring some stability to the Irish economy, and then some growth, which would be in the interests of not only the people of the Republic but the citizens of the United Kingdom.

[Claire Perry (Devizes) (Con)]

I understand that the Chancellor cannot yet set out the amounts that will be delivered under various mechanisms, but can he at least reassure the House that any bilateral financing will rank at least pari passu with money delivered through the IMF and through the EU mechanisms?

[Mr Osborne]

We would certainly expect it to be treated with the same seniority as any other European assistance.

Oral Answers to Questions

Claire Perry Excerpts

Tuesday 16th November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

First, the Government have given all councils, including North Tyneside, greater freedom about how to spend their resources by removing a lot of ring-fencing. Secondly, of course, as I said in the spending statement, this was a difficult local government settlement—I completely accept that. But even the Labour party was signed up to £44 billion of spending cuts. If Labour Members are telling us that those would not have included local government, that is not really credible. We have had to take difficult decisions and we should be supported for that.

[Claire Perry (Devizes) (Con)]

T2. The Chancellor is heading to an ECOFIN meeting tomorrow and I hope he will continue to press our colleagues in the European Union for some restoration of fiscal sanity in their economic policies. The flag that will be fluttering so merrily over the proceedings will be the blue and yellow one—those are colours that we rather enjoy. Does he agree that unless we see some return to fiscal sanity and some abandonment of the policy of fiscal recklessness, perhaps the colour of the flag should be changed from blue and yellow to brown?

[Mr Osborne]

Of course we are urging fiscal restraint on the European Union. I should pay tribute to my colleague, the Economic Secretary, who has been out to Brussels twice in the past few days to argue vigorously for restraint in the European Union budget with considerable success. One of the problems we are dealing with is that the previous Government gave up half the rebate and that is one of the reasons why the budget is increasing.

Equitable Life (Payments) Bill

Claire Perry Excerpts

Wednesday 10th November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)]

I pay tribute to the hon. Members who have spoken to the amendments. I praise our Treasury team, who have done a magnificent job of righting the wrong that was done to Equitable Life policyholders over many years. Opposition Members—there are some exceptions—should hang their heads in shame because of what they did when in government to Equitable Life policyholders. I came to the issue of the damage to policyholders rather late in the process—shortly before the general election. Like others, I was encouraged by my former employer to invest in Equitable Life, but it was a good job that I did not do so, or my view now might be different.

I remind hon. Members about the pledge that we made before the election: 380 MPs agreed to press for proper compensation for victims by swift, simple, transparent and fair payment schemes, as recommended by the ombudsman; and we agreed that we would all join the all-party group on justice for Equitable Life policyholders. I agree with the pledge, which I signed, and I have honoured every element of it. A large number of colleagues have not joined the all-party group that I have the privilege of co-chairing, and I encourage them to do so even if latterly.

I want to concentrate on three aspects of the amendments. The first is the moral duty that we owe to people who relied on advice and on the system of the regulator, the Government and Equitable Life. There was a major scandal, because those three bodies connived to swindle people out of their money. That is a sad indictment of what happened, and that is what set Equitable Life aside from all other aspects of the pension industry. We must demonstrate to people, especially young people, that it is worth investing in their future. If young people do not do so, there will be a sad and sorry state of affairs in this country. There is a clear moral duty.

The second issue is the amount of money that is due in compensation. I am delighted that the Treasury accepted that the ombudsman’s recommendation of £4.26 billion was the right amount to which policyholders were entitled. The debate today is not about money, but the Treasury team has come to a view that because of the economic circumstances only £1.5 billion is affordable. It has also had regard to the ombudsman’s report, which said clearly that relative loss must be taken into account. The Treasury team must have done some calculations to reach the figure of £1.5 billion, and I trust that the Minister will tell us in his reply today how that figure was arrived at. The reduction from £4.26 billion to £1.5 billion is dramatic, and he must respond to our points.

[Claire Perry (Devizes) (Con)]

My hon. Friend eloquently sets out the outrage that many of us feel, having signed the pledge. Does he agree that our Government, unlike the previous Government, have reached a speedy conclusion, as a result of which more people in the claimant group will receive compensation before there are further deaths? I agree with my hon. Friend about transparency and I, too, would support a motion to set out exactly how the calculations were made, in the spirit of our Government’s commitment to greater transparency in all financial matters.

[Bob Blackman]

I thank my hon. Friend for her intervention. The issues are complex, and the more one reads about and understands the scandal, the more difficult it becomes to resolve it. The Government in their wisdom have set out a compensation scheme that will continue for many years. The £1.5 billion is not a one-off payment that will go into a fund this year and end the matter. It will be spread over many years, and it will extend into the next Parliament.

European Union Economic Governance

Claire Perry Excerpts

Wednesday 10th November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Chris Leslie]

If we see growth dented here in the UK because those ripples flow from the eurozone—changes as a result, perhaps, of the measures we are debating—we could see further implications for spending cuts here in the UK in respect of vital public services and more austerity when perhaps stimulus would be the order of the day. However, there is a balance of risks here and it is clearly important for fiscal discipline to be exercised, but responsibly so. We have argued for a sensitive and measured approach to deficit reduction in this country, rather than the doctrinaire approach of steep and swift cuts favoured by the parties whose Members sit on the Government Benches.

I am glad to note the ironic analysis of the Minister in the explanatory memorandum that was referred to, which he signed last week. He said that he believed

“that the main consideration should be whether a Member State’s debt is on a downward trajectory, rather than the specific pace of annual debt reduction”.

He also said that the numerical pace should remain

“only as an indicative benchmark…that…is not used as a concrete rule by which Member States’ debt reduction plans are judged.”

How right he is—if only he applied such pragmatic sense to our economy and public services in the UK, too.

[Claire Perry (Devizes) (Con)]

I am enjoying the hon. Gentleman’s measured canter around the potential risks associated with this legislation and I am also entertained to hear the words “stability and growth” coming from Members on the Opposition Benches—something that perhaps they did not achieve towards the end of their time in office. However—perhaps I am front-running his conclusion—is he going to vote for or against the legislation tonight?

[Chris Leslie]

As I see it, it is difficult to know yet what propositions are before us. I want to hear the Minister’s answers to our questions and we will make up our minds then. The substance of the regulations and the eventual treaty changes might be beneficial, but we also have to wait and see what President Van Rompuy proposes in his eventual treaty amendment and what emerges from the December Council meeting. We are not at the end of a process; we are in it. There are further propositions to be put on the table.

Finance (No. 2) Bill

Claire Perry Excerpts

Monday 11th October 2010 Commons Chamber

[Ms Eagle]

The hon. Lady must recognise that the budget deficits being suffered in all the more advanced economies result directly from the need to rescue the world financial system by underpinning it, the effect of automatic stabilisers and the loss of revenue caused by the recession that followed the credit crunch. I thank her for giving me the chance once more to put that on the record.

[Claire Perry (Devizes) (Con)]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Ms Eagle]

I will be happy to give way when I have finished dealing with the point made by the hon. Member for Solihull (Lorely Burt). I am pleased that she gave me the chance to put on the record again the plain fact that Budget deficits throughout the developed world were caused by the costs of the recession and the need to underpin our banking systems, rather than by profligacy in public spending. The problem was caused by a gigantic global market failure, not by the activities of Governments.

[Claire Perry]

It is a pleasure to welcome the hon. Lady to her new role, as she is one of the more economically literate and articulate of the shadow Front-Bench team. I am therefore surprised that she continues to bring out the hoary chestnut that somehow this deficit was entirely a result of the collapse in the banking system and was nothing to do with the previous Government’s spending more than they raised in taxes since 2001.

[Ms Eagle]

The hon. Lady has also to recall and acknowledge that a lot of the investment spending since 2001 went on infrastructure, which will stand our country in good stead as we look to how we can rebuild our prosperity and continue to earn our way in what will be an increasingly competitive world.

--- Later in debate ---

[Claire Perry (Devizes) (Con)]

I join in the congratulations to my hon. Friend the Member for Skipton and Ripon (Julian Smith) on his excellent maiden speech. I also congratulate the hon. Member for Nottingham East (Chris Leslie) on his elevation. He is a triumph of quality over quantity tonight. It is either that or he needs to change his Lynx body spray.

I am pleased to speak in support of the Bill, an agglomeration of 31 yawn-inducing technical tax measures to some, but to me another item crossed off the most important “to do list” of this Parliament, tackling the crippling millstone of public debt inherited from the last Labour Government. I would like to do three things: to address some specific clauses; to review the need for presenting the Bill in this slightly unusual form; and to provide some context for the measure.

There are 33 clauses to be put on the statute book. In—I think—all cases, those measures were inherited from the previous Labour Government; there are almost no changes from our side of the House. All are worthy of review, but three are particularly relevant. The first is on the level of support provided to carers. Almost every week in surgeries around my constituency I hear about carers and the particular burdens put on adult carers. We heard just this morning that 25% of women in their 50s—not so far off for some of us Members—will be carers while also facing the challenges of continuing to be supportive parents for their teenage children. It is imperative that the measures that we put in place to relieve carers of unnecessary tax are carried through handsomely.

I echo the comments made by my hon. Friend the Member for Portsmouth North (Penny Mordaunt) about the importance of the first-year allowances for zero-emission goods vehicles—100% of first-year allowances will be deductible from April, continuing until April 2015. That demonstrates our Government’s commitment to supporting incredibly valuable legislation that helps us in the overall attempt to “green up” the British economy.

The Bill’s measures, alluded to by my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Norfolk (George Freeman), on supporting enterprise and venture capital investment are critical to our plans to open Britain for business, although as part of that process we must continue to ensure that the banks actually lend. That matter is not for debate tonight, but we must return to it again and again as we proceed through the Parliament.

I turn to the odd split of Finance Bills, for which the Government have come under mild criticism. We had Finance Bill No. 1, which enacted a series of emergency Budget measures and now we have No. 2, which has been described as the mopping up of technical tax measures. May I review what was happening at the time of the election, and the need for emergency Budget measures? Our triple A credit rating was under threat, 10-year interest rates were spiking up at over 4% and starting to approach the interest rates of Italy, which has, I believe, had 62 Governments since the second world war. The credit default swap rating—I know that this all sounds like bankers’ speak but it materially impacts on the level at which we can borrow—which is the measure of potential British default on our debts, was getting up to 90 basis points, up there with Portugal and Spain, which could not even dream of a triple A credit rating. A fire was burning in the heart of the British economy and the Labour Government had no plans to put it out. We did. The emergency Budget on 22 June, introduced within the 50-day limit that we set ourselves, restored confidence both internationally and domestically in the British economy.

[Nadhim Zahawi (Stratford-on-Avon) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that, because of that emergency Budget, we are still able, although we are dealing with a massive deficit and borrowing £500 million a day, to borrow at half the rate of Ireland?

[Claire Perry]

As always, my hon. Friend makes an excellent point based on his substantial experience in the business world. During that process, we showed a clear commitment to doing the right thing for the British economy. We did not do things to maximise political headlines, of which the previous Government were guilty on an almost weekly basis.

What is the result of taking those bold actions? Let us talk numbers. The risk premium on the British economy has dropped by 30% since the election. Long-term interest rates—the 10-year interest rates—have dropped by more than 1%, meaning a 25% reduction in the cost of borrowing. These are not arcane measures thought up by a load of greedy bankers; they materially flow through to the borrowing costs of our constituents, both for mortgage and small business borrowers. The measures mean real growth for the British economy.

Why did we not consider tax measures in the first Finance Bill of this Parliament? The point made earlier on transparency and consultation is a valuable one. We said that we will be a Government who are far more transparent and that we will allow time for consultation.

[Kelvin Hopkins]

I am listening with interest to the hon. Lady. She said that the Government did not introduce tax measures, but what about the rise in VAT, which is a regressive tax? The introduction of a more progressive tax—for example, a tax on the rich or on big business—might have been more acceptable, but a regressive tax will deflate the economy by taking money out of the pockets of ordinary people, who spend most.

[Claire Perry]

I would debate regressive and progressive taxation and the question of income or expenditure with the hon. Gentleman, but I would like to make a little progress, if he will allow me, and focus specifically on the technical measures in the Bill.

The measures were published on 12 July, and I believe that we have had a number of responses to them, and we now feel that we have had adequate consultation to proceed. The House feels that we can cope with the split between two Finance Bills, but I would like Ministers to reassure us that we will revert to one Finance Bill as soon as possible, as the situation normalises. In that way, the whole finance package can be given proper scrutiny, and we will not have the kind of piecemeal debate that we are having today.

Finally, let me give some context to the measures. We have heard this before, but I make no apologies for saying it again: we have a record deficit. That is not the result of a financial shock that emerged like the creature from the swamp from America in 2007, but the result of a Government who spent more than they earned in taxes every year from 2002. I have listened with great interest to the representations made by Labour Members. They say, “We were investing. We weren’t ‘spending’; we were building schools and hospitals.” They were building schools and hospitals, but they were borrowing money to do so. In the process, they put the bill on future generations of taxpayers. They talk about being progressive, but that is not a progressive thing to do with the British economy.

The previous Government bequeathed us interest costs of £120 million a day. That is paid largely to foreign Governments, so that they can build their schools and hospitals off the tax pounds that we collect from our taxpayers. There is nothing progressive about that.

What do we get when we discuss the measures? Do we get the intelligent, grown-up debate that the hon. Member for Wallasey (Ms Eagle), the shadow Chief Secretary, asked for? We certainly do not get intelligent, grown-up debate on how to cut the deficit from the few Labour Members in the Chamber. With a very few honourable exceptions, we get opposition to everything. That was amply demonstrated during today’s statement by the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions. We now have the extraordinary situation of Labour Members, in opposing everything, wanting to tax the poorest families in this country to pay £1 billion in child credit to the richest 15% of families. I suggest that, by opposing everything, Labour Member get themselves into some extraordinary technical tangles.

Conservatives want to talk about deficit reduction, but Labour Members put up the ideological barricades, saying, “You’re bad Tory cutters. You’re bad Lib Dem ideologues.” Behind the sound and fury, one question remains unanswered: what would Labour Members cut? Where would their £44 billion-worth of spending cuts fall? If they oppose everything in our deficit-reduction plans—the plans are supported by the International Monetary Fund, the OECD, the CBI, the Bank of England, Tony Blair, Peter Mandelson and everyone but Labour’s Front-Bench team—they weaken their status as a viable Opposition.

I shall finish if I may by quoting Labour’s new shadow Chancellor, the right hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle (Alan Johnson). No, this is not about his need for an economics primer; it relates to what he has said about the British people. He said:

“I think the reason why they took to the coalition is they thought, well, here’s someone rolling their sleeves up and getting down to the job.”

We are getting on with the job. The measures in this Bill are part of that, and I urge every hon. Member here tonight to vote for the Bill, as I shall be in the not-too- distant future.