Crime and Policing Bill

Debate between Chris Vince and Matt Vickers

Consideration of Lords message
Monday 20th April 2026 Commons Chamber

[Matt Vickers]

We have seen significant developments on that front. Only this afternoon we were debating the issue of antisemitism and where that has got to, and the real-world consequences for people in this country of the actions of the IRGC and associated groups—in other words, state-backed terrorism. The Government need to act. They need to wake up. In fact, they could just vote for the Lords amendment this evening.

In 2025 alone, the security services tracked more than 20 potentially lethal Iran-backed plots. The IRGC is a dangerous and lethal organisation. We must act against groups that pose a threat to our national security. Ministers have said that the proscription of the IRGC will be kept under constant review, but given the situation that we face now, that is simply not good enough. Many other countries have acted to proscribe, including the USA, Canada, New Zealand, Australia and even the European Union.

Let us remind ourselves of our Government’s record. When it was in opposition, the Labour party said that it would proscribe the IRGC. The now Foreign Secretary said that it was behaving like a terrorist organisation and must be proscribed—“must” not “might”; not “We will keep it under review”; not “should.” What has changed is that those who once demanded action now sit on the Government Benches and have chosen inaction. Now we are told that it is too complicated. Now we are told that it is legally difficult. Now we are told that it would be symbolic. We are told that there are challenges because the IRGC is part of a state, but the whole point of proscription is to confront organisations that operate through intimidation, violence and terror, regardless of the flag behind which they hide. We are told that sanctions are enough, but sanctions have existed for years and the IRGC continues its activities: intimidation, plots, proxies and repression.

Let us be clear: Lords amendment 359 does not ask the Government to take a leap into the unknown; it asks them to do precisely what they themselves argued for, repeatedly and on the record. If it was the right policy then, why is it not the right policy now? If the IRGC met the threshold then, why does it not meet it now—or was that position merely convenient Opposition politics? Today the Government have a choice: they can stand by their previous convictions, or confirm that those convictions were never truly held at all. I urge Members to support the Lords amendment.

The Bill is a missed opportunity to take back our streets. Perhaps that is no surprise from a party that has already removed 1,318 police officers from our streets and begun releasing criminals from prison early, but we can still improve the Bill by supporting these sensible, pragmatic amendments to crack down on fly-tipping and strengthen our national security. Given that these Ministers are so used to U-turning, I hope that they will do it again today.

[Chris Vince (Harlow) (Lab/Co-op)]

I thank the Minister and the shadow Minister for opening the debate.

I oppose Lords amendment 11, but I do recognise its merits. Let me begin, however, by talking about the wider issue of fly-tipping, which is an absolute bugbear of mine. When I go canvassing, or indeed when I visit Harlow Town football club, I am often recognised not for being the local MP, but for being the guy who goes out litter-picking with my mate Neil. Neil is the bloke who lives around the corner from me, and apparently he is considerably more popular than me, because everyone knows who he is.

I absolutely recognise the impact of fly-tipping, particularly what I would describe as industrial fly-tipping. Vans full of rubbish are being dumped on an industrial scale. In Harlow, this often involves bin cupboards. When I was a councillor in the fantastic part of Harlow that is called Little Parndon—I hope it will re-elect a Labour councillor in two weeks’ time—fly-tipping was a huge issue, and local residents would contact me about getting their bin cupboards locked up, often at great expense to the council. However, in more rural parts of my constituency such as Nazeing, Hatfield Heath and Hatfield Broad Oak, which I visited this weekend, the problem of fly-tipping is even worse, with farmers genuinely facing intimidation and threats. One farmer told me of a worrying incident when he confronted some of the fly-tippers, only to be told by one of them, “Get out of my way. I know where your family lives.” I think we would all agree that no one deserves that sort of intimidation.

I recognise what Lords amendment 11 seeks to do, but I want to emphasise the Minister’s point that the police and local authorities already have the power to search and seize vehicles under section 33 of the Environmental Protection Act 1990. The shadow Minister made some interesting points about the reasons why that does not happen very often. Personally, I think it is partly down to the previous lack of a rural crime strategy, and I am delighted that this Labour Government are ensuring that we have such a strategy, because it is hugely important that we tackle the issue of fly-tipping. The hon. Member for North Cotswolds (Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown) mentioned the importance of tackling hare coursing as well, because that too is a huge issue for farmers. We must bear in mind that this is where they live and where their families live. We take that sort of intimidation very seriously.

Crime and Policing Bill

Debate between Chris Vince and Matt Vickers

Report stage
Tuesday 17th June 2025 Commons Chamber

[Matt Vickers]

I wholeheartedly agree. There are a lot of concerns about the neighbourhood policing guarantee and where the resource comes from: whether it is through specials or volunteers—of course, we want to see more of them—or redeployments. When people ring 999, they want to know that they are going to get the response they expected. They do not want to see that depleted to move officers from one bucket to the next. That has real consequences. The biggest hit to our police force numbers at the moment will be the national insurance rise—the tax that is taxing police off our streets.

[Chris Vince]

The shadow Minister and I probably disagree on many things, but he is giving a very well-presented speech. Does he not recognise, however, that there may well be an increase in police numbers, but we have seen a decrease in police staff? In Essex, we lost over 400 police staff during the Conservatives’ period in office and a number of police officers have been redeployed to roles that could have been done by police staff.

[Matt Vickers]

I am glad to see all those police officers getting proper training through the hon. Gentleman’s maths teaching. I am glad he has new recruits in his part of the world, but people are concerned about the frontline numbers. The number of police on our streets is a huge concern to the public. The chair of the National Police Chiefs’ Council has said that the funding will not match the Government’s ambitions and falls short of maintaining the existing workforce. And just listen to the Police Federation, which states quite simply:

“This Chancellor hasn’t listened to police officers.”

Can the Minister confirm that by the end of this Parliament there will be more police officers than were serving in March 2024?

Police Grant Report

Debate between Chris Vince and Matt Vickers

Wednesday 5th February 2025 Commons Chamber

[Matt Vickers]

Last year there was funding of £900 million-plus; this year it is only £660 million. The hon. Gentleman is completely overstating what the Government are giving police officers. [Interruption.] He is wrong. We managed the finances to put the largest ever number of police officers on the streets of the UK. The Minister has given no guarantees that she will maintain that.

[Chris Vince]

Will the shadow Minister give way?

[Matt Vickers]

I will carry on; I am sure that there will be plenty of opportunities for everybody to contribute to the debate.

Thanks to measures introduced by the then Conservative Government, the total number of officers stood at 149,769 in March 2024—the highest headcount since comparable records began.

[Chris Vince]

Will the shadow Minister give way?

[Matt Vickers]

The hon. Gentleman will have plenty of opportunities to contribute.

I know that Labour Members do not like this fact, but the Conservatives left office with record numbers of police and thousands more officers on our streets than ever before. All we are doing is calling on the Government to try at the very least to maintain that number, not reduce it. In reality, the Government are placing police forces in an impossible position. How do they expect forces to meet their financial obligations without cutting officer numbers?

The Government will point to their intention to recruit new neighbourhood officers, but we all know that includes only a relatively small number of new officers—just 3,000. Most of the claimed 13,000 officers are either being reassigned, are part time, are volunteers or are PCSOs with no power of arrest. Given the existing budget shortfalls, I am concerned that that level of recruitment will not be enough. The £200 million allocated in that inadequate settlement appears insufficient to meet the Government’s stated objectives.