Future Government Spending

Debate between Chris Leslie and Baroness Primarolo

Wednesday 4th March 2015 Commons Chamber

[Chris Leslie]

No.

My hon. Friend the Member for Warrington North (Helen Jones) is right to highlight the impact on our national health service of some of the devastating changes that have hit social care. She made her point well.

It is bad enough that the Chancellor and the Prime Minister fight so hard against the idea that an inclusive approach leads to a stronger economy and a better plan. [Interruption.] What is worse is that the Prime Minister, the Chancellor and Government Members fully intend to accelerate the failing plan for a further five years—[Interruption.]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Dawn Primarolo)]

Order. Conservative Members have had their fun in shouting across the Chamber. The debate should settle down now, with interventions when they are taken, but a proper debate. Mr Smith, if you have a question, it is normal to stand up on an intervention, not just speak by Christian name across the Chamber. Thank you.

[Chris Leslie]

I appreciate that, Madam Deputy Speaker.

NHS (Government Spending)

Debate between Chris Leslie and Baroness Primarolo

Wednesday 28th January 2015 Commons Chamber

[Chris Leslie]

There you have it, Madam Deputy Speaker. Government Members are not concerned in any way about the state of the NHS or about GPs, but only about asking questions about procedure and process. I am here today because the shadow Treasury team, like every shadow departmental team on the Labour Front Bench, is committed to supporting our NHS and to making sure that we get the investment that is needed.

Why is the situation so fragile? The Government scrapped NHS Direct and fragmented it into 46 separate, cut-price 111 contracts, which does not ensure that 60% of calls are dealt with by medical staff. That figure is now down to 20%. It is no wonder patients are so quickly being driven back to—[Interruption.]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Dawn Primarolo)]

Order. Minister, I heard what you said to your Back Benchers and it is out of order. The hon. Member for Wyre Forest (Mark Garnier) will disregard the advice from the Minister. I will not embarrass the Minister by saying exactly what it was, but I will not hear him say it again.

[Chris Leslie]

That is rather curious, Madam Deputy Speaker. I would be quite interested to know what the Minister was saying. Perhaps the hon. Member for Wyre Forest (Mark Garnier) heard it. What did the Minister say to him?

--- Later in debate ---

[Tim Loughton]

I am delighted to intervene because the shadow Secretary of State, who has now appeared, mentioned that in his car crash interview last night. I do not know if the shadow Chief Secretary has been to Worthing or has looked at the contract, but it made no difference in money terms. As it happens, I opposed the contract, as did my hon. Friend the Member for Worthing West (Sir Peter Bottomley), because there was no impact study. As a result, we will now get a better service—run by the hospital—that is more seamless for patients. Will the shadow Chief Secretary apologise?

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Dawn Primarolo)]

Order. Interventions must be brief. Mr Leslie, get back to your speech.

[Chris Leslie]

I think we got the gist of the intervention. The hon. Member for East Worthing and Shoreham (Tim Loughton) opposed such competition, but I think he voted for it in the Health and Social Care Bill. He has his own demons to worry about on that.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab)]

A moment ago, my hon. Friend was talking about the risks of privatisation. I know he shares my concerns about health services in Nottingham. What advice does he have for the voters of Nottingham who, as a result of the outsourcing of our hospital’s world-renowned dermatology department, which was then broken up, can no longer access acute dermatology services locally? How should our constituents vote on 7 May? [Interruption.]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Dawn Primarolo)]

Order. Mr Garnier, I am not going to tell you again. You are on a warning now. You make lots of interventions. Members show you respect, and I expect you to show it to others when they make their points.

[Chris Leslie]

That is so unlike the hon. Member for Wyre Forest (Mark Garnier), and very out of character.

My hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham South (Lilian Greenwood) is a doughty fighter for NHS patients in our city of Nottingham. She knows very well that we have been trying our best, in working with local trusts, to press them to ensure that such services are safeguarded. Ultimately, when our constituents see the Government passing legislation encouraging trusts to move a private income level of 2% to potentially 49%, and when they see the pressure trusts are under, they are not surprised that many such problems are occurring in our area. It is only through making sure that we find resources and channel them towards investment for the care needs in our NHS that we will deal with those pressures.

Finance Bill

Debate between Chris Leslie and Baroness Primarolo

Tuesday 2nd July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo)]

Order. Mr Leslie, please ensure that you leave time in the debate, which will end at 8.19 pm, for the Minister and perhaps some Back Benchers as well.

[Chris Leslie]

I will be very brief. I want first to pay tribute to the hon. Member for East Worthing and Shoreham (Tim Loughton). I have to hand it to him: he has got the Government jumping around and on the run on this issue. However, I am afraid that the Opposition are not convinced that the millions of people who are separated, divorced, or indeed widowed, would benefit from this policy, let alone those married couples where both partners work. I am all in favour of marriage, and Mrs Leslie might at first glance like the idea of the £150 give-away, but because she works and earns above the personal allowance, it would not be of benefit in our circumstances.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Leslie]

I am sorry that we did not have the opportunity to consider this matter on Report. I think it was given some consideration in Committee. I think we are still waiting for the Government’s review to come to fruition—I am happy to give way to the Minister if he wants to confirm that—and we need to see the evidence. If we feel that any changes in tax and in spending are necessary, we want to spell out clearly where we would get the resources to pay for them. The fact that the Government have ignored not just our advice—[Interruption.]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo)]

Order. Can we stop the chuntering from Front Bench to Front Bench while someone is trying to speak? Minister, you were listened to in silence and with proper courtesy, so it would be good if you showed that same courtesy to the shadow Minister. Perhaps Ministers and shadow Ministers could pay attention rather than shout at each other.

[Chris Leslie]

Madam Deputy Speaker, I am grateful for your protection from the sedentary chuntering of Government Members. They ignore anything they hear, not just from the Opposition but from the International Monetary Fund, which has pointed out that this has been the slowest recovery for a century. There has been barely 1% growth since the 2010 spending review, and the Chancellor predicted there would be 6% growth by now. Living standards have fallen and many families are finding it difficult to make ends meet. Life is much harder.

Financial Transaction Tax and Economic and Monetary Union

Debate between Chris Leslie and Baroness Primarolo

Tuesday 18th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Chris Leslie]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. It is important that the Minister’s misinterpretation of what I said should not be allowed—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo)]

Order. That is not a point of order, but a point of debate. Resume your seat, Mr Leslie.

Infrastructure (Financial Assistance) Bill

Debate between Chris Leslie and Baroness Primarolo

Monday 15th October 2012 Commons Chamber

[Chris Leslie (Nottingham East) (Lab/Co-op)]

I beg to move amendment 11, page 1, line 6, after ‘infrastructure’, insert ‘within the United Kingdom’.

[The Second Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means (Dawn Primarolo)]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Amendment 1, page 1, line 7, leave out ‘includes’ and insert ‘means’.

Amendment 9, page 1, line 11, after ‘health’, insert ‘childcare’.

Amendment 4, page 1, line 13, leave out paragraph (e).

Amendment 2, page 1, line 13, after ‘housing’, insert ‘, the function of which has a national significance.’.

Amendment 10, in clause 1, page 1, line 13, at end insert—

‘(2A) “Infrastructure” excludes the expansion of Heathrow airport before May 2015.’.

[Chris Leslie]

At near enough to 7 o’clock, I am glad that we finally turn our attention to the Infrastructure (Financial Assistance) Bill. Anybody following these proceedings might be astonished that we have been allowed just over two hours for the Committee stage. In our view it is unsatisfactory to leave the rules governing £50 billion of public expenditure to such scant and inadequate scrutiny. Although we do not necessarily disagree with the broad principles behind the Bill, that does not mean that we should fall short in our duty as parliamentarians to analyse, consider and improve the details of the legislation. Ministers cannot point to the House of Lords as the place where the Bill can be improved and amended if we run out of time for consideration in Committee. I think the last time the Lords sat in Committee on a money Bill was in 1995, when it considered the European Communities (Finance) Bill. This two-hour period is therefore the only opportunity we will get to scrutinise the particulars of the legislation; hence the amendments that are before us.

I want to talk to amendments 11 and 9 in this first group. Amendment 11 would make it clear that the substantive powers in the Bill, which give Ministers the ability to grant financial assistance to any persons, should be used for infrastructure in the United Kingdom, for essentially this reason: we believe that we should focus all our efforts on the domestic infrastructure needs of our country. That is why we think the Bill, if it can bring benefits, needs to focus very much on the benefits of infrastructure and bringing forward capital schemes here at home. Hon. Members will be aware that the UK has been falling behind quite considerably in the past couple of years in terms of infrastructure and capital investment schemes. Only today in the Financial Times we read about the Construction Products Association warning that

“infrastructure is in free-fall,”

and that it expects spending to fall by 13% in 2012 compared with the last calendar year, despite the hollow words of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Noble Francis, economics director at the CPA, said:

“We are getting to the stage where the government just can’t make more announcements with nothing happening. At some stage they are going to have to launch some capital investment that sees work happening on the ground. This can be done quickly, easily and cheaply speeding up work on the repair and maintenance of roads, schools, hospitals and housing.”

The article points out that road construction, to take one example of infrastructure investment,

“is suffering in particular, with the CPA projecting a decline of 40 per cent this year and 5 per cent next year.”

Financial Services Bill

Debate between Chris Leslie and Baroness Primarolo

Tuesday 22nd May 2012 Commons Chamber

[Chris Leslie (Nottingham East) (Lab/Co-op)]

I beg to move amendment 75, page 43, line 16, at end insert—

‘(3) Within a year of Royal Assent to the Financial Services Act 2012, the Treasury shall publish a report on measures to improve the stewardship of institutional investments, which may require amendment under subsection (1).’.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo)]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: Amendment 45, in clause 14, page 64, line 8, at end insert—

‘(3A) In section 73, subsection (1), insert at end:

“(g) to foster ethical corporate behaviour, including respect for internationally-recognised human rights.”.’.

Amendment 38, in clause 22, page 82, line 10, at end insert—

‘(c) provide for a requirement that an employee representative should be a member of the remuneration committee of a relevant body corporate, and

(d) provide for a requirement that the remuneration consultants advising on remuneration policy shall be appointed by the shareholders of a relevant body corporate.’.

Government amendments 5 to 8.

Amendment 73, in clause 40, page 127, line 38, at end insert—

‘Complaints by small businesses

234I Small businesses—complaints and proceedings

‘(1) The Treasury and Secretary of State shall bring forward proposals within three months of Royal Assent to the Financial Services Act 2012 in the following areas—

(a) to introduce provision for collective proceedings before the court in respect of financial services claims made on an opt-out basis by small and medium sized enterprises; and

(b) to introduce provision for complaints by small and medium sized enterprises to the FCA that a feature, or combination of features, of a market in the United Kingdom for financial services is, or appears to be, significantly damaging the interests of small business.’.

Government amendment 9.

Amendment 74, in schedule 5, page 204, line 37, at end insert—

‘(2) In subsection (1) after “approved persons”, insert “and the standards of stewardship expected of approved persons who are institutional investors.”’.

Government amendments 13 to 17.

[Chris Leslie]

This important Bill took a considerable amount of time in Committee, but it was still insufficient to cover many of the amendments that will be necessary to ensure that it is fit for purpose and able to fulfil the job for which it was designed. The Opposition believe that the Bill can still be improved, so many of the proposals we did not reach in Committee or that were not addressed on day 1 on Report are in today’s amendment paper.

This long group of amendments under the generic title, “Stewardship, etc.” covers a few issues, so I would be grateful, Madam Deputy Speaker, if you would bear with me while I touch on the details. Although amendments 75 and 74 relate to stewardship, other amendments are on different topics, which I should also like to address under this group.

On amendments 75 and 74, it is important to take the opportunity to ensure that the Bill properly improves institutional investors’ stewardship of pension funds or other savings or investments. Such funds are looked after by others on our behalf. In an ideal world, those who have pensions or other savings would spend time considering where they are invested, and whether they are invested ethically or in sustainable organisations and so forth. For reasons of practicality, however, that is often impossible, and investments are often grouped together in a basket of different products, so following the detail of where funds are invested is incredibly difficult.

That is why many people choose to use institutional investors—to ensure their best interests are being served. That means ensuring a good and strong rate of return, but many people care about where their money is invested. Most of British industry is partly owned by the collective pension funds of our constituents. They have voting rights through the shares and equity they hold, but they are often exercised without reference to our constituents and delegated to institutional investors to make decisions on their behalf.

The previous Administration and this one have therefore sought to address the quality of stewardship by institutional investors. Amendment 75 is on the threshold tests in the Bill and the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 on whether people are suitable or fit and proper, whether they have adequate resources to fulfil their responsibilities, whether they have close links with others in the sector, and so on. The Opposition felt it would be a good idea to ask Ministers to consider whether the array of reforms that should be made to corporate stewardship should be reconsidered in the light of those threshold tests.

Amendment 74 also looks to the 2000 Act and the general rules of conduct of approved persons and seeks to amend the Bill so that it addresses key aspects of the good stewardship agenda. We argued in Committee and earlier that the Bill is a missed opportunity radically to improve the stewardship of some of the key players in corporate Britain, especially those large firms—banks and institutional investors—that have such a direct impact on society at large.

The stewardship code was brought into force in 2010. We have had reasonable progress, with around 230 asset managers, asset owners and service providers signing up in the first 18 months, but sadly, the Bill does not reference the Financial Reporting Council, which is the UK’s independent regulator responsible for promoting, among other things, high-quality corporate governance. We want the Bill to do more to give regulators a proper and clear mandate to strengthen the stewardship code where appropriate and give them sufficient teeth to ensure that significant culture changes can happen. These things do matter. We have to build a framework that roots out bad habits and addresses what some people have called the principal agent dynamic—the fact that shareholders are often very fragmented and, when faced with unified managers, are often unable to make any headway. Senior executives can sometimes respond only if there is a 50% plus one coalition of shareholders.

We need to rekindle that dynamic. Some have said that it is time for a shareholder spring or awakening, and there have been some suggestions recently that certain company shareholders, at the annual general meetings and elsewhere, have begun to ask fundamental questions of the senior executives. It is the mismatch between the power that senior executives can have and the lack of power of—paradoxically—the owners of some of these large companies that needs addressing. In legislative terms, we often have debates about firm rules and fixed ways of doing business. Obviously, it would be preferable if the dynamic between owners and managers were able to ensure that we had a healthier, more open and transparent way of doing business.

I commend those institutional investors who show an active interest in how they use the voting rights of their investors and use that leverage to try and influence positive corporate behaviour by the relevant companies. It must be tempting for many institutional investors, when faced with a company perhaps with a management dysfunction or some behavioural failing, to sell up and walk away from that company. That is too often the history of such shareholding. It would often be far better if shareholders, as owners, could stay and try to fix the culture of the organisations that they own. It is that sort of change that we need to find a way of addressing. Yes, some shareholders will not want to say publicly that they disagree with senior executives, because that could affect the share price and they would therefore be affecting their own financial interests in some ways, but there are several ways in which institutional investors need to have the ability, directly or indirectly, to influence what is going on.

Protests in recent months have, in some cases, seen the rejection of some of the larger pay deals in big companies—for instance, the executive remuneration packages at Trinity Mirror, Pendragon and Aviva. The banking sector has also seen some significant shareholder disquiet, including at Citigroup with the rejection of the chief executive’s pay package. Nearly a third of Barclays shareholders voted against the pay policies in that particular company.

So there have been some signs that shareholders are becoming interested in that more active role. This is perhaps to commend the work of the Association of British Insurers, which has done good work recently in encouraging its members to take a more active role. Those members account for some 15% of the stock market, and they recently wrote an unprecedented letter to the chief executives of some of the major banks in particular, saying that they were not happy and would no longer tolerate a “business as usual” approach when it came to remuneration, especially for executive directors.

Those moves are very positive, but we should not feel that the balance between shareholders and executives is sufficient. The persistent imbalance needs addressing in a number of specific ways. For a start, a shadow is often cast across the Atlantic as many institutional investors feel that what are known as the “acting in concert” rules affect them here. To what extent can institutional investors come together and discuss with each other their ability to voice common concerns about the behaviour of managers? I have sometimes heard concerns expressed that this may somehow be in conflict with anti-trust regulations. If the Government could clarify the “acting in concert” rules, it would help to send a clear signal to institutional investors that it is possible to have those discussions, to come together to form a significant majority and to express a view about corporate behaviour.

Finance (No. 3) Bill

Debate between Chris Leslie and Baroness Primarolo

Tuesday 3rd May 2011 Commons Chamber

[Chris Leslie]

rose—

[The Second Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means (Dawn Primarolo)]

Order. Before the hon. Gentleman responds, may I remind Members that interventions are supposed to be brief—not mini-speeches in their own right? There will be plenty of opportunity to join in the debate later.

[Chris Leslie]

Thank you, Ms Primarolo. Notwithstanding your strictures, that was an incredibly important intervention from my hon. Friend, who is correct, particularly in his assessment of the attractions of York as a destination for tourism, which was of course helped by the investment that the previous Administration put into some of those key elements within his constituency. I do not want to be diverted, however, as time is short and we need to focus on the amendment.

The amendment relates to the level of the bank levy in the context of bank taxation and the bonus culture. As I said, the Government could not even bring themselves to have transparency on what the bonuses were, let alone take action against them. However, we know some things about the realities of bank bonuses today, and the figures are truly astonishing. From the limited disclosure that we have seen, we know that in 2010, John Varley, the former chief executive of Barclays, received a £2.2 million bonus; Stuart Gulliver, the chief executive of HSBC, received only £5.2 million in bonuses; Stephen Hester, the chief executive of RBS—wholly owned by the taxpayer, by the way—got £2 million in bonuses; and Eric Daniels, the chief executive of Lloyds, largely owned by the taxpayer, got £1.45 million in bonuses. Let us not forget Bob Diamond, the chief executive of Barclays since January this year, who received £6.5 million in bonuses in 2010. He was head of Barclays investment banking before that and perhaps his bonus relates to that. Poor old Bob Diamond, however, loses out in the bonus bonanza when compared with the top two managers at Barclays: Tom Kalaris received a cool £10.9 million in salary and bonuses in 2010 and its other top manager received a tidy £10.6 million.

Ms Primarolo, can you guess the name of that other top manager at Barclays? His name is Rich Ricci—and I kid you not! It would be the stuff of a Dickensian novel if it did not sound so far fetched, but it is indeed true. Between them, the top five earners at Barclays—including Mr Rich Ricci, but excluding executive directors—received more than £38 million in salary and bonuses in 2010 alone.

Equitable Life (Payments) Bill

Debate between Chris Leslie and Baroness Primarolo

Wednesday 10th November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Chris Leslie]

I beg to move amendment 5, page 1, line 7, at end insert—

‘(2D) The Treasury shall lay before Parliament details of the timings and planned dates for payments of compensation to which this section applies, no later than three months after commencement of this Act.’.

[The Second Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means (Dawn Primarolo)]

With this it will be convenient to discuss amendment 8, in page 1, line 7, at end insert—

‘(2A) After determining the total amount of the payments that the Treasury is to authorise under subsection (2) and the persons to whom those payments are to be made, the Treasury must secure—

(a) that each of those persons is paid the full amount due to that person in a single payment, and

(b) that the single payment is made as soon as practicable.’.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Marcus Jones]

Will the hon. Gentleman explain the inactivity on the matter while his party was in government, particularly during the demise of the Icelandic banking industry, when his Government bailed out many investors who were affected by that at the drop of a hat?

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo)]

Order. Before the hon. Member for Nottingham East (Chris Leslie) answers, may I remind the House that this is Third Reading and that it is timed, which means that it will conclude at three minutes past 5? Members who have sat through the debate this afternoon and who wish to speak on Third Reading might not get the opportunity to do so. I shall call Mr Leslie back to the Dispatch Box to respond to the intervention, but perhaps everybody in the Chamber could bear my point in mind.

[Chris Leslie]

Indeed, Madam Deputy Speaker. It is certainly incumbent on us all to be brief as far as we can. I have set out the position as I see it. I know that Government Members will disagree, but I do not wish to impugn their intentions. I was simply seeking to point out that they are held to a pledge that not all Members are held to and that they will be judged on that.

We are not minded to oppose the legislation this evening. This is a necessary paving Bill, but we accept that the devil will be in the detail and we await the further scrutiny of the measures that will come subsequently.