National Security Capability Review

Chris Bryant Excerpts

Monday 15th January 2018 Commons Chamber

[Gavin Williamson]

I am afraid that my hon. Friend is asking me something I cannot deliver. I can offer the Chief of the Defence Staff if she would like him, but I cannot offer the National Security Adviser. However, I will certainly pass on her request to Mr Sedwill.

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

There is danger, is there not, of an ever-diminishing spiral? Governments and political parties say they will have 82,000 or 80,000 in the Army, but fail to recruit that many and end up saying, “All right, there’ll be 75,000”, and then the figure will be 70,000, and so it will go on and on. If we fail to recruit enough and the Government fail to fulfil their promises, this country will in the end be left without sufficient defence.

[Gavin Williamson]

Let us make it absolutely clear: the reason we are looking so clearly at how we go about our recruitment is to make sure we meet the target and fully recruit, and that is why we are changing our approach. As is often said, “If you always do what you always did, you will always get what you always got.” We are trying to look at how to do this differently, so that we hit our numbers and get the right people who want to serve our country, and that is why we are going to do things differently. We have already seen a 15% increase in applications, and I hope that that will continue to rise.

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[Gavin Williamson]

My hon. Friend comes up with an innovative idea for hypothecation of tax in terms of the MOD, and I would be keen for him to expand that idea and push it with the Chancellor going forward.

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am grateful to you for taking this point of order now, but the Secretary of State has a couple of times used the words “Islamic terrorists.” I think he meant “Islamist terrorists”; I am certain he did, and it is important that we make that distinction in this House, as I am sure he would want to, and I just want to give him the opportunity to correct the record on that.

Oral Answers to Questions

Chris Bryant Excerpts

Monday 27th November 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Ellwood]

I also pay tribute to my right hon. Friend’s work on understanding the challenges we face with recruitment and retention. My hon. Friend is absolutely right to say that, as a starting point, the cadet programme is important to encourage and open up opportunities in the armed forces. Some 20% of those who sign up for the cadets go on to become members of our armed forces, and the other 80% have an affinity and an understanding for them, and a desire to support them, which is also welcome.[Official Report, 5 December 2017, Vol. 632, c. 6MC.]

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

The combined cadet force at Treorchy Comprehensive has been going for 10 years now, and it has done a brilliant job. Lots of young people have been given skills and opportunities they would never otherwise have had, and the same goes for the sea cadets in Llwynypia. However, one of the daftest things the MOD did last year was to sell the Pentre barracks for a paltry sum. We now really need a venue for the sea cadets and the combined cadet force to be able to work together. Would the Minister like to visit the Rhondda very soon—he may have some spare time in the near future—to look at the combined cadet force and the sea cadets?

[Mr Ellwood]

I am not sure how useful I would be if I did have spare time in the future. There is an armed forces rationalisation programme of real estate in the UK. Some 2% of the land is owned by the Ministry of Defence and we are going through a process to rationalise that. That may include some locations that the hon. Gentleman mentions, but because of the contribution the cadets make to wider society and the armed forces, we absolutely need to work with local authorities and Members of Parliament to make sure cadets have a place to go.

Oral Answers to Questions

Chris Bryant Excerpts

Monday 10th July 2017 Commons Chamber

[Sir Michael Fallon]

Yes, I was very pleased to announce this £48 million contract earlier this year, which will support jobs in my hon. Friend’s area and provide world-class Apache training for our personnel. The Apache is a vital part of the British Army’s fighting force and this investment is only possible thanks to a rising defence budget.

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

The UK was a central part of the European forces in Bosnia, Althea, and in the Mediterranean, Atalanta. Does this mean that the Government will be committing to remain part of such European forces in the future, after we have left the European Union?

[Sir Michael Fallon]

That will become clearer after we leave, but we play an important part in Sophia, Althea and Atalanta not just because of our membership of the European Union but because it is in our national interest to help to deal with migration, to curb piracy off the horn of Africa and to help to stabilise the western Balkans.

Oral Answers to Questions

Chris Bryant Excerpts

Monday 30th January 2017 Commons Chamber

[Sir Michael Fallon]

I am very happy to confirm the safety and effectiveness of our nuclear deterrent.

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

Has the Secretary of State had an opportunity to speak to his American counterpart over the weekend, because many of us would hope that he would have pointed out to the Americans that Trump’s ban is potentially a massive recruiting sergeant for terrorism and is not going to protect anybody at all?

[Sir Michael Fallon]

I have already made it clear that the Government do not agree with aspects of the ban that was announced on Friday. The hon. Gentleman will have the opportunity later this afternoon to ask more detailed questions about it.

Trident: Test Firing

Chris Bryant Excerpts

Monday 23rd January 2017 Commons Chamber

[Sir Michael Fallon]

Yes, in essence, that is right. The system is tested to ensure that each of its complex parts and the various systems involved are fully understood and that the crew of the submarine concerned is ready to operate it. As I have said several times now, that operation was successfully concluded.

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

Many Opposition Members share the Defence Secretary’s commitment to the deterrent and, for that matter, his concern about national security, but the logic of what he is saying is that there was a security breach, and it happened this weekend, as American officials are now briefing CNN and British officials are secretly briefing The Guardian and The Sunday Times. Surely, according to his own logic, there must now be a full investigation.

[Sir Michael Fallon]

We certainly deplore the leakage of any information about the nuclear deterrent, but it is not for me to comment on what might be said by the United States Administration. This is our submarine and our deterrent, and it is our responsibility to apply to it the very highest security classification.

Yemen

Chris Bryant Excerpts

Monday 19th December 2016 Commons Chamber

[Sir Michael Fallon]

I am sure the House will join my hon. Friend and me in condemning the murder of the Russian ambassador to Turkey—a shocking act involving a diplomat, who should otherwise, of course, enjoy proper protection, and whose murder does not bring any conflict in the middle east closer to resolution. There are, however, too many states in the middle east that are acting beyond their borders—such as Iran, clearly involved behind the scenes in Yemen in prolonging a conflict that only perpetuates the suffering of the Yemeni people.

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

I commend the Defence Secretary for making a statement rather than being dragged here to answer an urgent question. That is an important part of the way we do our business, and I commend him for it.

I support what the Defence Secretary says about Saudi Arabia having the right to defend itself, but surely not at any cost and not in any way—that is all we are trying to get at. When the hon. Member for Ludlow (Mr Dunne), who is an honourable man, and who I do not think for an instant wanted to mislead the House, said in May that, based

“on all the information available to us, including sensitive coalition operational reporting, we assess that no UK-supplied cluster weapons have been used”—[Official Report, 24 May 2016; Vol. 611, c. 401.]

had he been lied to by our coalition allies, and, if so, can we really trust anything the Saudis say today?

Oral Answers to Questions

Chris Bryant Excerpts

Monday 12th December 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

One of the great merits of having the Clerk in front of me is that I am on the receiving end of his specialist advice. May I say, for the benefit both of the right hon. Member for New Forest West (Sir Desmond Swayne), who takes an interest in these matters, I know, and of the House, that the letter to which reference was made is strictly speaking a letter to the House and for its benefit? Notwithstanding the motivation of the right hon. Gentleman in saying, “You need not write,” may I with the greatest respect say to the right hon. Gentleman, a distinguished former Minister, that that is not for him to judge—the letter is for the House’s benefit. He may be disinterested in it, but others may be interested. We will leave it there.

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

How will we get to see it?

[Mr Speaker]

The hon. Gentleman chunters from a sedentary position, “How will we see it?” Toddle along to the Library and you will find it, man.

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[Harriett Baldwin]

The Royal Navy is, of course, continuously assessing the capabilities it requires, and work is ongoing across the Department to consider the options for the Harpoon replacement.

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

Thanks to the Cluster Munitions (Prohibitions) Act 2010, brought in by the Labour Government, we do not use or sell cluster munitions any more, but the Government are also required under the Act to persuade their allies not to use cluster munitions either. What are the Government doing to try to stop the Saudis from using cluster munitions in Yemen?

[Harriett Baldwin]

In line with our obligations under the cluster munitions convention, we continue actively to discourage all states that are not party to the convention from using cluster munitions and we encourage them to accede to it without delay. We have raised the issue of ratification of the convention at ministerial level with Saudi Arabia.

Oral Answers to Questions

Chris Bryant Excerpts

Monday 12th September 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mark Lancaster]

The MOD offers a number of logistics apprenticeships including driving goods vehicles, roadside assistance and recovery, and international trade and logistics. However, I recognise the importance of logistics to the armed forces and efforts to address skills shortages in this area need to be balanced with other areas, but I will certainly look at what my hon. Friend says.

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

23. I am sure the Minister would agree that participation in one of our cadet forces is one of the best apprenticeships available through the MOD. We have a wonderful sea cadets group in the Rhondda. Now that the MOD is vacating Pentre barracks in the Rhondda, why on earth is it putting it up for auction on the open market rather than simply giving it to the sea cadets?

[Mark Lancaster]

I am sure the hon. Gentleman will support this Government’s programme to extend cadet forces to 500 by 2020. Equally, he will appreciate that we have very strict rules when it comes to the disposal of defence property, but I am happy to look into what he says.

Oral Answers to Questions

Chris Bryant Excerpts

Monday 3rd February 2014 Commons Chamber

[Dr Murrison]

I am pleased that the hon. Gentleman is supporting that because museums large and small are extraordinarily important. As he will know, the Ministry of Defence supports the National Army Museum at one end of the scale, but he is right to say that regimental museums at the other end are also vital. I hope that the good work he has described will continue. Out of interest, I would—of course—be more than happy to meet that charity, but as he will understand, I must be cautious about providing monetary support, which is probably better sourced elsewhere.

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

Some 9% of those in our armed forces come from Wales, yet the population of Wales is only 5% of the UK population. We therefore take a strong interest in the future of our armed forces. The Minister said there will be redevelopment at St Athan. I presume that does not mean that there will be a defence training academy, but what exactly is he going to redevelop there?

[Dr Murrison]

The hon. Gentleman is right to say that Wales has provided a disproportionate part of our Army, and I pay tribute to it for that. As he will know, St Athan is of great interest to the Welsh Government, who want to develop an aerospace business park there. The MOD is working closely to reconcile our continuing MOD defence needs for that site with the need to advance the prosperity agenda and the Welsh Government’s requirement to ensure that jobs are sustained and supported there in the long term.

First World War Commemoration

Chris Bryant Excerpts

Thursday 7th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Dr Murrison]

I am absolutely delighted that the right hon. Gentleman has raised that point. As he would expect, we have spent a great deal of time in debate with Dublin on this matter. As I have been going through this work, it has been something of a revelation to me as I have understood fully the great work that Her Majesty the Queen did when she visited Dublin. Ever since then there has been a huge appetite in both countries to improve the relationship between the two countries, which has been extraordinarily uplifting. Of course the Republic of Ireland is engaged in its decade of commemoration, within which falls the centenary of the great war. I can tell the right hon. Gentleman that I have had extraordinarily positive feedback from Dublin regarding their engagement with this period of shared history and I look forward, as part of the legacy of the centenary, to moving the relationship a little further forward, with all the sensitivities that it of course contains. However, I see this very much as an opportunity and I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for raising that point.

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

Many of the Irish nationalist Members of this House fought in the war, which they never thought they would be doing, on behalf of the united Great Britain and Ireland, including, most famously perhaps, Willie Redmond. He has a shield in the House, but one Irish nationalist MP who died in active service who does not have a shield is Captain Esmonde. Will the Minister make sure that he gets one?

[Dr Murrison]

I suspect that that is a matter for Mr Speaker rather than for me, but I suspect that Mr Speaker will have noted the contribution of the hon. Gentleman. I know that the House itself is working hard to determine what it will do to mark the centenary of the great war and no doubt the hon. Gentleman will be able to reinforce his point with the appropriate authority.

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[Mr Keith Simpson (Broadland) (Con)]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. May I first congratulate both Front Benchers on their moving and informative speeches? We are all the sons and daughters of history. I am conscious of the fact that 99 years ago today, on 7 November 1914, the old British Army with the Territorials was dying, literally, in the area of Ypres in Belgium. Both my grandfathers were there—both survived—one in the Royal Flying Corps and one who had volunteered in August 1914 because he could drive, and then found himself in the Army Service Corps. As an old man, he told me that he had not expected to be toting a rifle and bayonet with the infantry, but such was the desperation of the defence that they were needed.

My generation is the lucky generation. I know I do not look it, but I am 64, and I am of the generation that missed a major war. My grandfathers fought in the first world war, and my father and uncles fought in the second world war. I lived through the cold war. However, a younger generation—my son and his friends—might ask why we are commemorating the first world war when we should perhaps be commemorating the revolutionary and Napoleonic wars, which had just as major an impact on history. I suggest that the reason is not least because of the scale of the suffering and involvement, but also because we have an empathy towards the people involved and we can understand them far more. A very literate group of men and women fought, and we have images of them. In addition, the war is still controversial today.

I have to declare an interest, as I have written books about the British Army and the first world war. Along with the hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones), who is about to resume his place, I am a parliamentary commissioner on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission. I am also a member of the Prime Minister’s advisory board on commemorating the first world war, along with the right hon. Member for Lagan Valley (Mr Donaldson). What I briefly wish to talk about relates to the fact that, along with Lord Wallace of Saltaire, I am the joint chairman of the parliamentary committee looking at commemorating the first world war.

Why should Parliament commemorate the first world war? It is because there is a political element, a commemorative element, a learning and knowledge element and a personal element. The political one is that to engage young people today, we need to get them to think about the fact that big political issues were being debated before and during the first world war. Let us be under no illusion: Britain was not a peaceful, pastoral, “Downton Abbey” kind of place in the spring of 1914. We were nearly faced with a civil war in Ireland, there were mass industrial disputes and there were major social problems of one kind or another. In some respects, the war prevented domestic violence on a large scale.

We also have to recognise that Parliament did count. Of course, the Prime Minister did not have to come to Parliament to get a vote in support of his declaring war, but he was conscious of taking the temperature. The legislation that Parliament passed during the first world war, some of it pre-dating the war, is still with us today. Examples of that include the setting up of the intelligence and security aspects of British government, and legislation on licensing. The debates on conscription broke the old Liberal party, and debates took place here on whether or not we should seek a negotiated peace. Those things are not just a walk down memory lane; if we face young people today with all that, they will understand the importance of it. That is one thing that the advisory committee is hoping to get Parliament, and, in particular, the Youth Parliament, involved with.

Secondly, let me deal with the commemorative aspects. The hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) made the point that there was no badge here for one former MP who died—

[Chris Bryant]

Two.

[Mr Simpson]

I am sorry. I will make sure that the officials in Parliament take note of that.

That is an important aspect, because large numbers of MPs and peers, and their children, were killed or badly wounded in the first world war and we commemorate them. Let us remember that both Asquith and Bonar Law, the leaders of the two major parties, lost sons in the first world war. It was not an academic war for them. Large numbers of staff served in the first world war. One of the waiters in the House of Commons Dining Room was killed in action in 1917. The war came home literally to this place.

As for the question of learning and knowledge, it is important that we will provide, via websites and the internet, a lot of information about Parliament and the memorials in Parliament that will be available to the public. We will link that to the project on lives of people in the first world war that is being established by the Imperial War museum.

More than anything else, this all has a personal aspect. One thing that my noble Friend Lord Wallace of Saltaire has done in the House of Lords, which is something that we will do in the House of Commons, is to send a questionnaire to every peer and peeress asking what their families did during the first world war. He has received some fascinating replies. People had relatives who served not only in the British armed forces, as one might expect, or on the support side, but in the Commonwealth armed forces and the Indian army. He has received replies from people whose relatives fought on both sides: the father’s side of the family in the British Army, and the mother’s side in the Austro-Hungarian or German army. I would like to think that we would be able to get such information from colleagues in this place and from the staff, too. We would be able to put that into the public domain to contribute to the commemoration.

We must also consider the fact that we will not stop in 2018 with the commemoration of 1918. The first world war did not end there; its legacy continued. There were big debates in this House about how we were going to honour the dead. The establishment of the Imperial War Graves Commission in 1917 was controversial. Up until then, bodies had been brought home, so the decision to bury the dead where they had fallen was controversial. Political upheaval followed the end of the first world war. Ex-soldiers from Irish regiments became members of the IRA or, on the other side, of the auxiliary division of the Royal Irish Constabulary. There was a civil war there.

There was also the disillusionment that grew in the 1920s and 1930s, and the legacy of pacifism and appeasement that affected minorities in the Labour, Liberal and Conservative parties. It is difficult for us now to think that while Harold Macmillan, whom I remember meeting in 1978 as a very old but fully alert man, was the British Prime Minister in 1963, which is well within my lifetime, his most moving experience was serving in the first world war. He tended to judge men and women by how they had acted and behaved in that war.

I hope that what we are doing, with the help of Members, to get Parliament to consider how to commemorate the first world war will not only interest us, but involve the wider public and young people, which is one of our greatest aims. I suspect that all those men and women who were lucky enough to survive the war and live on would approve of what we are trying to do and of the fact that we are going to consider the matter in a non-prescriptive way. Instead, to use that old expression, we will let a thousand flowers bloom and have a proper debate.

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[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

I will speak only about MPs who died in the first world war, and the couple of MPs who died in the second world war, because sometimes in all the talk about how politicians are out of touch and how we are not all in it together, we forget that at many of the key moments in Britain’s history, Members of this House have been very much in it together.

Within the first few months of the outbreak of the first world war, 139 Unionist MPs and 41 Liberals had signed up. At a time when it was still voluntary, that was a very high percentage of those of service age. All the big political families lost somebody. William Ewart Gladstone’s grandson, Lieutenant William Gladstone, who was 29 and MP for Kilmarnock, died in the Royal Welch Fusiliers on 15 April 1915. Captain Neil Primrose, the Liberal MP for Wisbech and Parliamentary Secretary to the Treasury, was only 35 and the second son of former Prime Minister Lord Rosebery. He was awarded the military cross in 1916 and led his squadron into battle in the third battle of Gaza, and died.

Raymond Asquith was a barrister and the only son of the Prime Minister at the beginning of the first world war. He was killed on 15 September 1916, leading 4 Company in an attack on Ginchy in the battle of Flers-Courcelette. Within months, of course, his father lost office. In many ways, perhaps it was easier to oust him, because he was so upset by the loss of his son. Arthur Henderson, the Leader of the Labour party, lost his son, David. As the hon. Member for Broadland (Mr Simpson) said, Bonar Law lost not one but two sons, Charlie and James, and it is perhaps no wonder that his other son, Dick, fought so hard against appeasement in the 1930s, given that so many of his family had already gone.

I want to talk about two particular cases. The first concerns the Cawley family. Harold Cawley was Liberal MP for Heywood and Parliamentary Private Secretary to the Home Secretary. He was the second son of another MP, Frederick Cawley, and was sent to Gallipoli in May 1915 as an aide-de-camp. His younger brother, who was not an MP, died at Mons the day before he set sail. Harold Cawley hated being in a headquarters job, and wrote:

“I have always felt rather a brute skulking behind in comparative safety while my friends are being killed”.

Four of his friends from Rugby were killed on the same day in Gallipoli. He got his wish and of course was killed on 23 September 1915. Ironically, because his letters to his father were from one MP to another MP, they had parliamentary privilege, so the Government could not prevent their being made public. That is one reason we know about the disasters of the Dardanelles campaign. Even more sadly, his other brother, Oswald—this is now the third son—who became an MP when his father was made a peer in 1918, was also keen to fight, became a captain in the 10th King’s Shropshire Light Infantry, was shot in the arm on 22 August, got his wound dressed, went back into the fray and was later shot in the jaw, this time fatally.

There are three shields from the first world war that I think are missing from the Chamber. The first is for Dr John Esmonde, who was the Irish nationalist MP for North Tipperary from 1910 until his death on 17 April 1915, when he was serving as a medical doctor in the Army medical corps. It is true that, in one sense, he was not a combatant and, according to his death certificate, died from pneumonia and heart failure consequent on the strain of overwork, but several other MP casualties are commemorated in the Chamber who died as a result of accidents rather than as combatants.

The second is Lieutenant Tom Kettle, who was an ardent home rule MP for East Tyrone between 1906 and 1910. He was gun-running for the national volunteers in Belgium when the war came, but reckoning that it was the war of civilisation against barbarians, he spent several weeks in what he called

“the agony of the valiant Belgian nation”.

Then, despite poor health, he applied time and again for active service on the western front in one of the Irish regiments. He was killed.

The third is Charles Lyell, who died of pneumonia in 1918 as assistant military attaché in Washington having served two periods as PPS to Asquith, the Prime Minister, and devoting himself wholeheartedly to the war effort. I think it is a shame that these three are not commemorated in the Chamber. I have written to the Speaker and I hope that this will be taken up.

With that, I echo all the comments of the many others who have spoken.