Edinburgh Festivals: Cultural and Economic Contribution

Chris Bryant Excerpts

Tuesday 8th October 2024 Westminster Hall

[Max Wilkinson (Cheltenham) (LD)]

It is a pleasure, Mr Efford, to serve under your chairmanship and I congratulate the hon. Member for Edinburgh East and Musselburgh (Chris Murray) on securing this important debate.

We have heard many inspiring stories today about Edinburgh. I regret that my most recent cultural experience in Edinburgh was bellowing out Proclaimers songs in Fingers piano bar at my stag party. That was a great day out, but it does not match up to some of the other stories that we have heard—

[The Minister for Creative Industries, Arts and Tourism (Chris Bryant)]

It does not sound like it would. [Laughter.]

[Max Wilkinson]

It was a lovely evening out as well, Minister.

Our challenge is that we must build a creative environment that showcases the best of British talent—bringing together British culture and creativity, and showcasing it for the world—and that we use that to foster a thriving and informed democracy. The impact of cultural festivals in achieving those aims is substantial.

In the case of the Edinburgh festival, we have already heard that it benefits Edinburgh itself by more than £400 million; the wider impacts on the rest of Scotland and the UK are much, much bigger. The festival opens the door to tourism for the rest of our nation, which is a really important aspect that we must not miss out when speaking about cultural events.

That is why it is very worrying to hear the concerns of festival organisers, which have been highlighted in recent news coverage. Regardless of funding pressures, it is our opinion that it is extremely important that the Scottish Government do what they can to meet their past funding pledges. For appropriate balance, I will add that such responsibility extends to other public funders of cultural activities across the rest of the UK, whether those are devolved nations or local government.

Festivals, such as the festivals in Edinburgh that we are debating today or the Cheltenham festivals in my own constituency, play a key role in our cultural life. It is vital that they receive the support necessary to continue to flourish. This week, my constituency is celebrating the 75th anniversary of the Cheltenham Literature Festival, which continues to flourish. However, despite large ticket sales, reductions in funding and in-kind support mean that the organisers of the Cheltenham Literature Festival have had to make some really tough choices in the past few years. Nevertheless, they still engage youngsters in reading to the tune of around 23,000 children every year. Of course, reading for pleasure is one of the single biggest indicators of a child’s future success.

At the launch event for the Cheltenham Literature Festival last Friday evening, supporters—including me—were reminded that the UK spends just 0.46% of its GDP on culture; that is based on the latest figures, which are from 2022. According to the University of Warwick’s “The State of the Arts” report, the UK is not alone in Europe in cutting its cultural budgets in recent years, but that does not make it right and we remain towards the bottom of the European league table, lagging behind our neighbours. If we are to remain a cultural superpower, that situation needs to be addressed.

Cultural funding extends to local festivals, theatres, cinemas, museums, art galleries, music and dance venues, libraries and public spaces. These are all vital to communities the length and breadth of our country. They are spaces devoted to creative endeavour. They not only fuel local economies; they also stimulate community participation across a whole range of creative activities.



In addition, we must not ignore the positive impact of the cultural sector on another great challenge facing our nation: deteriorating mental health. As we seek to reduce pressure on the NHS, we should look to the arts and culture as part of the non-medical therapy available. While few in the Chamber would dispute the difficult economic inheritance of this Government, we cannot look past the positive economic and social impact of investment in culture. It generates incomes and helps communities to thrive in non-monetary measures, too, as the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) pointed out.

What can we do to help our cultural sector boost the economy and increase happiness and wellbeing? Central Government can make a difference in many ways, although at heart it often comes down to money. However, Westminster and devolved Governments can make other important contributions. The promise made by the new Government for the restoration of multi-year funding settlements for local government will provide an important route to that. The hon. Member for Mid Derbyshire (Jonathan Davies) mentioned creative subjects, and we agree on that.

Planning reform offers another opportunity. Engaging the cultural sector in that will be important. We can beef up powers for local areas to protect cherished cultural venues. The cultural sector, too, would benefit from the abolition of business rates and the introduction of a commercial landowner levy.

A more sensitive subject is freedom of expression in the cultural sector. We all need to remember that sometimes we will see and hear things that we do not agree with. If art is not there to stimulate debate, it is nothing.

Finally, Chair—

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Luke Evans (Hinckley and Bosworth) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your stewardship, Mr Efford. I hope you do not mind that I have taken off my collar to allow a bit of movement. If my head starts to wobble, please do intervene. Congratulations to the hon. Member for Edinburgh East and Musselburgh (Chris Murray) on securing this debate. It is fantastic to have a discussion on this. Looking through Hansard, I note there has not been a debate on this topic since 1992. He brings a wealth of knowledge and passion that clearly came through, as it did in speeches by a variety of MPs whom I do not have time to thank. That was our own MP fringe event happening right here.

I admit I have never been to the fringe festival, although strangely I, too, have been to a stag do in Edinburgh. I always like to look what the best joke was each year. This year’s was from Mark Simmons:

“I was going to sail around the globe in the world’s smallest ship but I bottled it.”

I first saw him on TikTok, which shows the power of how these artists can spread. Have I stolen the Minister’s line?

[Chris Bryant]

Yes.

[Dr Evans]

I was also interested to hear that another major Scottish city—Glasgow—has been successful in getting the Commonwealth games. I believe the hon. Member for Edinburgh East and Musselburgh moved to Edinburgh from his home town of Glasgow. It is great to see that success in both those cities is supporting the UK as a cultural destination. I wish the city of Edinburgh well as it prepares for its international storytelling festival, with Hogmanay on the horizon.

The previous Government provided significant support to the sector, including the then Chancellor’s spring Budget, in which he announced £8.6 million of support to festivals, to help boost Scotland’s status as a destination for creative industries, as we have heard. I also understand that the Edinburgh and South East Scotland city regional deal, agreed under the previous Government, is giving the city the chance to unlock opportunities for economic and cultural growth.

The hon. Member for Edinburgh East and Musselburgh is well aware of the successes of the festivals. I thought I would add a couple more bits of data: more than 2.6 million tickets issued, more than 3,746 shows registered, and more than 60 different countries represented on stage. That shows the appeal, not only locally but internationally. As my hon. Friend the Member for Gosport (Dame Caroline Dinenage) said, the R&D incubator for the creative industries is something we must cherish.

I noted that the Edinburgh fringe app was downloaded 124,000 times, which shows that a traditional festival can move with the times, and work with others to be creative and engage more people. The extent of the data on the impact of this year’s festival has not been fully quantified or produced yet. In 2022, the Edinburgh fringe festival was on a par with the FIFA World cup. In 2022, BOP Consulting was commissioned by the Edinburgh festival to undertake an economic impact of the previous 11 Edinburgh festivals. The festival in 2022 generated an economic impact of £407 million—a significant increase from £280 million in 2015—not to mention the 7,000 direct jobs and 8,500 jobs across Scotland.

As the hon. Member for Edinburgh East and Musselburgh said in his maiden speech just a couple of months ago,

“culture, hospitality and tourism form the economic backbone of my constituency, not least in August, when it plays host to the Edinburgh international festival and fringe.” —[Official Report, 25 July 2024; Vol. 752, c. 883.]

With that, and turning to the Minister, I am interested in understanding whether he believes the visitor levy being proposed in Scotland will benefit the Edinburgh festivals. Will it benefit the city of Edinburgh and Scottish tourism as a whole? I understand that Edinburgh City Council, as well as Glasgow and Aberdeen, are looking at using the legislation. Does the Minister feel that Scotland has got this right and is he considering that across his Department in Westminster?

The Minister has a jam-packed portfolio, and I would hate tourism and the creative industries to become a fringe, as they are too valuable for that. Will he ensure that the creative industry budget is maintained in the upcoming Budget? Has he spoken directly to the Chancellor about tourism and creative industries? What assurances has he received that the creative industries will be protected, with tax reliefs maintained?

That being said, we are all here to celebrate a fantastic event. I again put on record my thanks to the hon. Member for Edinburgh East and Musselburgh for bringing this forward, from 1992 all the way to 2024.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Minister for Creative Industries, Arts and Tourism (Chris Bryant)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Efford. I should point hon. Members to the Register of Members’ Financial Interests, because I was paid by the Edinburgh book festival a year ago. I note that nobody else has had that to point out.

I will start by paying tribute, as many others have, to Shona McCarthy. She has done a phenomenal job over nine years. She has taken the festival through some of its most difficult moments, and it is striking that 2.6 million people bought tickets this year, which is the fourth highest number in its 77 years. That is absolutely brilliant, and we wish her well.

The Minister—I am sorry, I meant the shadow Minister. We keep on doing this because we are not used to it. I do not think the shadow Minister said that the joke he told was by Mark Simmons—he should attribute jokes. Simmons also had the no. 5 joke, which was:

“I love the Olympics. My friend and I invented a new type of relay baton: well, he came up with the idea, I ran with it.”

[Laughter.] Yes, it was terrible, wasn’t it?

I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh East and Musselburgh (Chris Murray). It is great to have a lot of new friends, especially from Scotland, and we are delighted to see Edinburgh so well represented. I will try an innovative thing, which is to answer the questions that have been asked as much as I can.

My hon. Friend asked about multi-annual financial planning. In so far as we possibly can, we want to be able to give economic stability to arts organisations, just as we do to local authorities in many other parts of the economy. That is one of the things we are driving towards in the spending review. However, I am afraid I must point him to the fact that there will be a Budget at the end of the month, and I can hear my right hon. Friend the Chancellor in the back of my ear already saying, “That’s far enough, Bryant!”

My hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh East and Musselburgh asked about cross-UK engagement. I want to make this absolutely clear: I do not want to engage in any kind of cultural battles with Scotland, Northern Ireland or Wales. We should be seeing this as a joint venture. The creative industries are a part of what defines this nation across the world, and we will only do well if we work together to achieve the best outcomes for performers, people who might become performers and the industry as a whole.

My hon. Friend makes a good point about visas. I will take that away and think about how we could work most creatively with the Home Office to make sure we get this right. It is not just about people coming into the UK; I also argue that it is about UK acts being able to tour in Europe. I was absolutely delighted earlier this year to go and see Depeche Mode in Cologne. I have never seen Germans so excited; they just can’t get enough. [Laughter.] Thank you.

My hon. Friend made an important point about crisis support. I am worried about the situation that arose, in particular, for the book festival and Baillie Gifford. He makes a fair point about whether that is the right way to go about making important points about climate change. One of the things we need to do as a Department is look at the whole package of the whole funding of all the arts and creative industries, which used to come from five or six different segments, including local government, which was prominent in that when we were in power before 2010. Most of that funding has completely gone, and philanthropy is struggling outside London and the south-east. We need to look at this in the round.

It is great to see the Chair of the Culture, Media and Sport Committee, the hon. Member for Gosport (Dame Caroline Dinenage), in her place, as she always is—she was in your place earlier for a previous debate, Mr Efford. She makes very good points about short lets. The legislation already in place for England and Wales, for which we are now considering how we will implement and take forward secondary legislation, would not apply in Scotland. However, we want to learn some of the lessons of what has happened in Scotland so that we can apply sensible legislation in England and Wales. I thought her point about co-operation was very well made—my hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh East and Musselburgh made that point as well. It is not just about us: there is a Government in Scotland, and it is also about local government across the whole of the UK. In England, I would argue that it is also about regional mayors, who play a very important part in the creative industries.

My hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh South West (Dr Arthur) referred to quieter parts of the year. It is a very well-made point. I would also argue that there is an issue about quieter parts of the country. It is all very well getting all the tourists to come to London, Oxford, Cambridge, Stratford, Bath and Edinburgh, but if they do not also go to other places—Stirling, I know, has a very fine castle, because I danced the Highland fling in it when I was 12, I think. Making sure that the benefits accrue to the whole of Scotland and to the wider economy is a really important part of what we need in our tourism strategy.

My hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh South West also made a good point about a tourism career. That is something we need to take far more seriously as a country. Why is it that somebody who works in a bar in Paris, or in a restaurant in France, Spain, or wherever, thinks that is a career for life, whereas we think it is somehow a demeaning job, which it is not? We need to completely transform that if we are to transform our tourism opportunities so that we get more than 32 million people coming to the UK.

The omnipresent hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) made important points about Northern Ireland performers—some of the best comedians we have known over the years—coming to Edinburgh and getting an opportunity, and about other festivals. Trying to get the economic possibility for festivals to flourish goes back to the point I was trying to make about the whole package of finances available.

My hon. Friend the Member for Mid Derbyshire (Jonathan Davies)—a former music teacher, no less— made very good points about other festivals. I am not sure about the Gilbert and Sullivan festival—I am worried now that I might get into trouble. I just remember that line from “Trial by Jury”: “She might very well pass for 42, in the dark, with the light behind her”—

[Jonathan Davies]

“In the dusk”.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Bryant]

There we are—I have been corrected. The most important point my hon. Friend made was about creative education. We need to make sure that every single child in this country gets a proper creative education. It is a force multiplier for other forms of education and means that children will prosper better in the work market. We are determined to transform that.

My hon. Friend—sorry, the hon. Member—for Edinburgh West (Christine Jardine)—she is a friend as well; she is a very friendly person—is from my mother’s part of the world: Glasgow. She made a very important point about the world’s window on us. That element of soft power, which several Members have referred to, is important. The Edinburgh festivals as a whole are an important part of that. For instance, the film festival and the television festival are world-renowned moments when people look to the UK. She talked about the cost of accommodation in Edinburgh, which goes back to some of our discussions about short lets. It is a significant concern, and one of the things that we want to learn lessons from.

My hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh North and Leith (Tracy Gilbert) also referred to accommodation costs. I am conscious that some people think we are going to be looking at dynamic pricing in relation to those costs: we are not; we are looking at dynamic pricing in relation to tickets. It is very interesting that the Edinburgh festivals do not use dynamic pricing. That is a really important part of making the whole package affordable and more accessible to more people.

My hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow West (Patricia Ferguson) referred to the book festival—it is not just because Walter Scott gets a great big statue; so many literary figures have come from Edinburgh. She also referred to the importance of Edinburgh being a UNESCO city of literature.

The hon. Member for Cheltenham (Max Wilkinson) talked about the Cheltenham festival. I welcome him to his place and look forward to working with him. I am going to answer the questions from the shadow Minister, who I think sings in a barbershop quartet or chorus—

[Dr Evans]

Not quite yet.

[Chris Bryant]

Not yet—all right. He asked about the levy in Scotland, which is of interest to lots of people. Lots of other countries do it; it is not something that we are pursuing at the moment. He asked about the creative industries in the Budget—well, he will have to wait for the Budget, won’t he? He asked about tax reliefs—he can wait until tomorrow morning.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered the cultural and economic contribution of the Edinburgh festivals.