Taxes

Caroline Nokes Excerpts

Wednesday 12th November 2025 Commons Chamber

[Bradley Thomas (Bromsgrove) (Con)]

Can the hon. Gentleman clarify the bundle of contradictions that we have heard over the last year from Labour Members? I recall that, in July 2024, we heard from the former Leader of the House, the right hon. Member for Manchester Central (Lucy Powell), that Labour had to abolish winter fuel payments for older people because there would be a run on the pound, and then they were reinstated because the economy had allegedly stabilised. We are hearing from the Chancellor and from Ministers that the economy is in a state that requires additional taxation and additional spending. We are hearing all these noises from the Labour party around the need to—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Caroline Nokes)]

Order. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will be making a speech in due course. That was a very long intervention.

[Sam Rushworth]

I am not sure that I fully understood the hon. Gentleman’s question or what contradiction he sees, but I will go on to talk about why I feel that we need to see major investment in our public services and our infrastructure.

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[Sam Rushworth]

That is not a vote before the House right now, but I have been pretty clear in my answer. I never agreed with the cap when the Conservatives introduced it. They did terrible things that put too many children in my community into poverty. The Government are addressing child poverty in multiple ways, including through the welfare system. However, children are not poor just because we do not have good enough benefits. In Bishop Auckland, people do not want better benefits; they want better jobs, a stronger local economy, better infrastructure, better education and a better health service. All that will require public spending. If I may say so—[Interruption.] Do you want to make an intervention?

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Caroline Nokes)]

Order. I do not want to make an intervention. Perhaps the hon. Member for Wyre Forest (Mark Garnier) does, but I certainly do not.

[Sam Rushworth]

I was distracted by the chuntering of the hon. Member for Wyre Forest (Mark Garnier) and thought that he may have wanted to make an intervention.

I will finish as I started. For me, the choice is really this: do we return to the dark days of austerity, which created the challenges that scourge the community that I represent, or do we lift people out of poverty, give them hope and the public services that they need, and invest in the critical infrastructure that brings our economy and our country into the 21st century? I know where I stand on that. Do the Conservatives know where they stand?

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[Stuart Anderson]

I certainly do. You raise a huge point—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Caroline Nokes)]

He raises.

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[Stuart Anderson]

I am happy that you intervened, and if you support tax hikes for your—

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Order.

[Stuart Anderson]

I will start that again, Madam Deputy Speaker. I am happy that the hon. Gentleman intervened. If he speaks to businesses across his constituency, they might say that they understand the tax hike, but I am asking if any of them support it. I am happy if he wants to intervene to say that they do.

Despite the huge pressures, I will continue to campaign for funding and support that enables businesses to thrive. The biggest area is tax cuts, and it remains a vital part of my focus to unleash rural prosperity for South Shropshire. I urge colleagues across the House to vote down any future tax rises.

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[Chris Vince]

I thank the hon. Gentleman—I had not thought to do that, but I will do so. I am sure my mother will appreciate that I am having that conversation. I briefly spoke to the Chancellor before this speech, to let her know about my mum’s circumstances. I just put that on the record, and I thank the hon. Member for his intervention—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Caroline Nokes)]

Order. I think there will be another intervention, but I want to bring us loosely back to the subject of taxes. While I can see that the career of the hon. Member’s mother at HMRC is related to taxes, it would be unfortunate, would it not, if I had to put a tight time limit on other Members?

[Chris Vince]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. So I cannot talk about my father’s and grandfather’s experiences—[Interruption.] No, okay.

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[Chris Vince]

No, I have finished my remarks.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Caroline Nokes)]

After the next speaker, I will impose a seven-minute time limit.

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[John Slinger]

I am for doing absolutely everything we can to reduce child poverty. One way in which we can achieve that is by ending the two-child cap—there are other measures. However, that is a matter for my right hon. Friend the Chancellor; it is not for me to decide right now in the Chamber.

Our approach is paying off. We were the fastest-growing economy in the G7 in the first half of the year, and the average person’s disposable income is £800 higher now in real terms than just before the election, but there is not time for me to go through the long list of our achievements. My right hon. Friend the Chancellor will set out more in the Budget. In my view, ours is a can-do approach, not a kicking-the-can-down-the-road approach.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Caroline Nokes)]

Order. I call Joe Robertson.

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[David Pinto-Duschinsky (Hendon) (Lab)]

You have mentioned the £47 billion of savings, but you have neglected to identify the number of teachers—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Caroline Nokes)]

Order. If the hon. Gentleman had been here for more of the debate, he would have heard that I am being particularly pernickety about the use of the word “you”. I have not identified anything this afternoon, and I do not intend to do so. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will make his intervention short, given his short tenure in the Chamber this afternoon.

[David Pinto-Duschinsky]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I apologise. The hon. Member has not mentioned how many teachers, how many doctors and how many police would be involved.

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[Charlie Maynard]

Let us talk about trade—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Caroline Nokes)]

Order. When the hon. Gentleman makes an intervention, he should do that via me, facing the Chair and not the Back Benches.

[Charlie Maynard]

Let us talk about trade, Madam Deputy Speaker. I find it extraordinary if we look at the future. I think it was Stephen Bush in the Financial Times who talked about the permanent lobotomy that the Tory party needs to have when talking about Brexit. If we are talking about getting money into the Exchequer, let us get our economy moving again and get growth back into the economy. Let us open up a customs union with Europe and get our economy growing. Let us look to the future.

[Dr Spencer]

I have to apologise to the hon. Member. I came into the House in 2019, and it strikes me that this debate is probably better suited to 2018, before I was elected.

On the situation that we find ourselves in, many Labour Members have spoken about the Chancellor or the Government bringing in free this and free that. The Government do not have money and the Chancellor does not have money. It is not even just taxpayers’ money that they are pledging to spend; it is our children’s money. That goes to the core of the problem that we face.

The decisions that the Government are taking to keep on and not cut spending and to keep on borrowing and borrowing are not on my head. They are not on the heads of anyone in this room. Those decisions are on the heads of our children. Families know how to budget, and this is the equivalent of a parent saying, “We fancy going on holiday to—I do not know—Lanzarote this year and we are going to borrow money to do it. I am not going to borrow it on me, though; I am going to borrow it on my kids. They will take out the loan and they can pay it back in future.”

It is fundamentally and morally unacceptable that we are in this position and that the Government do not have an approach to try and drive down the deficit and pay back the debt. That is why I am so pleased that the Leader of the Opposition announced the golden rule for making sure that policies going forward recognise that we cannot keep on spending money that we do not have.

In the last Government, from 2010 onwards, we worked really hard on driving down debt, and we had almost got there, in terms of reducing the deficit, when covid kicked off. Can people imagine the situation we would have been in if covid had kicked off without the work we had done to balance the books and without the fiscal firepower that we had to get through it? I remember the debates that we had around covid, and I remember well the first year—I am sure everyone in this Chamber does, whether they were a Member or not. I remember early on being desperately worried that the shadow of covid would loom long and loom hard, and that, over the next decade, we would see the impact of turning off the economy for two years.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Order. I call Sir Ashley Fox.

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[Sir Ashley Fox]

I would suggest two reasons. First, our economy has slowed down as a result of the very tax increases that the Chancellor has imposed. Secondly, the feral Labour Back Benchers have made them lose their nerve. The Prime Minister and the Chancellor therefore cannot control public expenditure in any way at all. The British people are already paying the highest tax burden in 70 years and Labour wants to increase it further. It is sad to say that this Government have no clue as to how the economy works. I genuinely believe that their Front Benchers want to reduce unemployment, but have they ever considered that if they increase employer national insurance charges and the cost of employing labour, businesses might use less of it? If they pass an Employment Rights Bill that increases the cost of labour, might businesses use less labour? Might that be why unemployment has increased every month since they took office? Is that why unemployment increases under every Labour Government?

Labour is just as ignorant on the effects of taxes and spending. If the Government tax entrepreneurs, there will be less enterprise. If they increase benefits, they should not be surprised if it becomes more attractive to claim them. Unfortunately, Labour’s answer to every question is more spending because, of course, it is what they do best: spending other people’s money. We never hear about its plans to improve efficiency or get better value for the taxpayer because there are no such plans.

Labour’s higher taxes and borrowing are leading to higher unemployment and lower growth. We are in a doom loop created by the Chancellor, and if we are to revitalise our economy, the first step is for the Government to control public expenditure. That is why we have outlined our plans to reduce expenditure by £47 billion. We will reduce welfare spending by £23 billion. Unlike the Liberal Democrats, Reform UK and other high-spending left-wing parties, we would keep the two-child benefit cap. We would reduce the size of the civil service to where it was in 2016, saving £8 billion, and reduce overseas aid by a further £7 billion. We would use those savings to cut both borrowing and taxes to bring about a new spirit of enterprise and confidence in our country.

It is ironic that it is the Conservatives calling today for the Government to stick to their manifesto promise not to increase taxes. The British people will notice if they break that promise for a second time.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Caroline Nokes)]

That brings us to the Front-Bench contributions. I call the shadow Minister.