Biometrics Commissioner and Forensic Science Regulator

Carol Monaghan Excerpts

Thursday 20th January 2022 Westminster Hall

[Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP)]

It is good to see you back in the Chair, Dr Huq. As you have said, I follow two of my fellow Committee members. I am also speaking from the Front Bench for the SNP. I should state at the start that I prefer to see myself here as a Committee member because this area is devolved to Scotland, and I will make a couple of remarks about that. For me, the big issues are around funding and governance, and I will talk about both.

Forensic science services provide accountability in what is a rapidly changing landscape, with new developments in not only technology and science, as well as in the many techniques we can use to promote greater public confidence and safety. It is in that vein that we are having today’s debate, because all of us want to see moves made to get the Forensic Science Service back up and running in the way it once did.

As I have said, forensic science is devolved in Scotland, and the Scottish Police Authority has its own fully accredited lab. It delivers world-leading forensic services and has over 500 trained staff operating out of four different sites, with scene examination based throughout Scotland. In September 2021, the Scottish Government published their forensic service strategy, which aims to continue to grow that scientific excellence. In March last year, Scotland’s first biometrics commissioner, Dr Brian Plastow—a former police chief superintendent—was appointed, and it is hoped that he will bring great expertise and significant leadership to that role. It is encouraging for us in Scotland that the UK Government have recognised the lead shown by Scotland and intend to watch with interest the work that has been done by the biometrics commissioner and the power to enforce a code of practice for Police Scotland’s biometrics use.

When it comes to forensics, public trust is paramount. It is imperative that when the public are going through criminal justice procedures, or when they are impacted in any way, they can place their trust in the civil justice system as a whole. That needs proper governance and a proper statutory footing: without those things, it is very difficult to get what is required. In their response to our Committee’s 2019 report—I am afraid I have not been a member for quite as long as the hon. Member for Blackley and Broughton (Graham Stringer), and I do not go back to 2005, but I very much welcome the expertise of my fellow member—the Government stated that they were

“committed to maintaining and improving our world-class forensic services and supporting the forensic scientists who work in them.”

The Chair of the Select Committee, the right hon. Member for Tunbridge Wells (Greg Clark), mentioned the evidence we took from Professor Gillian Tully, who described some of the concerns she had. She told the Committee that the closure of forensic science services had led to the loss of significant research funding. In her words,

“that money was lost. It was not then taken and given to anyone else to do research”—

something that the hon. Member for Blackley and Broughton has described in detail today. That money has been gone for a number of years, and with it, expertise is dwindling and diminishing. The Chair of the Select Committee has mentioned that we have only 30 toxicologists, a fact that should cause all of us some concerns.

The Government’s response to our questions on this issue has been disappointing and, at times, repetitive. They said:

“The Government fully agrees that funding for forensic research is vital, but that it must come with a full understanding of the research landscape.”

They talked about a guidance document that would be hosted by UK Research and Innovation and made publicly available, enabling the forensic science research community to identify suitable funding routes. As Professor Tully has said, that funding went, and was not replaced. The Government’s response should be more robust than simply, “We’ll provide the means by which people can apply for funding,” because expertise in forensic science does not just mean expertise in forensic science; what people are saying is that they also need to have expertise in writing funding applications. If that has been gone for a long time, it is very difficult to get it back.

We know from the work that we do with research institutions and private research bodies that they have people dedicated to writing these research applications and funding applications. Now, if this is a service that is on its knees and that has not had an injection of funding, we are asking the people working for that service to dedicate more of their energy and resources to apply for funding that quite frankly should be directed to them now, without further delay. It would be good to hear some words on that from the Minister this afternoon.

We know that science funding is important. The hon. Member for Blackley and Broughton talked about our no longer being a world leader. I would like to think that Scotland still retains some of that expertise, but his point is well made, because without the funding and without the ability not only to conduct research but to train up new people in the techniques that are currently being used, it becomes very difficult for people to operate in the circumstances in which they have been asked to operate.

I will briefly mention laboratory accreditation, which the hon. Gentleman, the Chair of the Select Committee, has mentioned already. He has said that 16 forces have already signed up to it, which I suppose is a good start, but we need more data on this issue. We need to know when other forces sign up to the Forensic Science Regulator’s code and, if forces are not signing up, why they are not doing so. Information on that would be helpful.

I suppose that one of the issues that causes the public most concern is the idea of how their biometrics and images are managed. There is a lot of work that the Government need to do in that regard. It is concerning that they are not moving to a system whereby custody images or other biometric information are deleted automatically and at the point where no charges are brought to bear.

The Government have reiterated their position that individuals can request to have that information deleted. That makes the assumption that members of the public know that they can make that request and know that their images have been captured and are still being held. There has been a lot of discussion about this issue. If you were so unfortunate, Dr Huq, as to be taken into custody and images are captured, you might know after this debate that you have a right to ask for them to be deleted. But do we know what other images are being kept?

In fact, a piece of evidence that we took for a report by a predecessor Committee referred to the number of images being held on databases that were not custody images; they were other images. I would like to know about them. My two daughters went on a climate action march during COP26, and I would like to know whether their images were captured and, if so, are they being held? I appreciate that I am talking about Scotland and a devolved issue, but if that march was taking place here in England what would happen with those images? The right to protest and demonstrate—the right to march—is fundamental to democracy. People should be able to do those things without their images being captured and retained.

Public confidence depends on clarity and full disclosure of how these images and other biometric information are used, which is why there is a really strong need for the regulator. The Bill introduced by the hon. Member for Bristol North West (Darren Jones) has, of course, put that into practice, which is really helpful, but we need to see action on this issue.

I will finish by saying that the Scottish Government have enshrined statutory powers for an independent regulator to judge the ethics of forensic science for quality and fairness, and to help criminal justice to go beyond the reasonable doubt threshold by using biometric data. It would be good to see what steps the UK Government, if they are truly watching with interest, are taking. I appreciate that Scotland is a much smaller entity, and probably easier to manage than what the Minister is dealing with. However, if there are lessons to be learned, I hope he can learn them and start putting into practice some of the recommendations of the Committee reports.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Minister for Crime and Policing (Kit Malthouse)]

It is a great pleasure to appear before you, Dr Huq. I am grateful to you, and I thank my right hon. Friend the Member for Tunbridge Wells (Greg Clark) and the hon. Member for Blackley and Broughton (Graham Stringer) for securing this debate and giving up the chance to commune with their constituents on a one-line-Whip Thursday to consider this important matter.

Before I start, I want to make it clear that, as far as I am concerned, forensics, biometrics and the use of technology in policing—and, indeed, the confluence of all three—has been for the last decade, and will be for the foreseeable future, the most important development in the prevention, detection and prosecution of crime, and represents the possibility of a great leap forward for policing generally, not just in this country but across the world. It is my determination that we should harness the capability that these three strands give us as much as we possibly can within a framework of public trust. All our work at the Home Office, and indeed at the Ministry of Justice, is focused on that key objective.

While there has been criticism during the debate of the system that we currently have—I think my right hon. Friend called it a mixed picture, which is fair—I do not think we should beat ourselves up too much. We see significant results in the courts and detection day in, day out from our ability to wield forensics and biometrics—my right hon. Friend has seen a result in his constituency just recently—and we have some of the best forensic scientists in law enforcement in the world operating in this country, in the private sector and elsewhere.

However, as hon. Members have said, forensic science in particular has faced challenges in recent years. Constrained resources, allied with a huge growth in the volume of sources of evidence, have put a strain on the system, particularly where digital material is concerned. We have taken steps to address that. As I hope Members will know, we are investing £25.5 million this year and a further £25.5 million next year to strengthen forensic services for policing, particularly digital forensics. We have set up the forensic capability network, which is bringing much-needed stability to the commercial market through co-ordination activity. I will get the updated numbers for my right hon. Friend after the debate.

When it comes to quality, Dr Tully did enormous amounts of work in this area previously, with partners, to make sure that there were standards of collection, analysis and presentation of evidence. However, hon. Members are quite right to push for more, and that is why we were so pleased to support the Bill to put the regulator on a statutory footing that recently went through at the second attempt. Although the hon. Member for Bristol North West (Darren Jones) was successful this time, my hon. Friend the Member for Bolton West (Chris Green) had a go in the previous Session, but unfortunately his Bill fell before the end of the Session. It has been a long-term objective of ours to get the regulator on to a statutory footing so that her or his standards are enforceable. We are working closely with the regulator to commence those new powers as quickly as possible. I do not have a date, but we will do it as fast as we can.

There is of course much more to do, which is why we are working closely with the regulator’s office, the Attorney General’s office and other partners to push out the forensic science reform programme, which, as I hope Members will know, is organised around four pillars. The first pillar is police capabilities. It is about ensuring that the police have all the skills they need through the Forensic Capability Network and the Transforming Forensics programme.

We want to ensure that there is proper regulation, hence the Forensic Science Regulator Act, which we think is a major landmark in levelling that playing field. Also, the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill, currently going through the Lords, strengthens the law to ensure a consistent approach, for example for requesting information from phones and other electronic devices, and it will ensure that in all cases requests to victims and witnesses are necessary, proportionate and made only as a last resort. Guidance on that will appear quite soon.

Among other things, the code of practice will address how information may be obtained using other, less obtrusive means, and how to ensure that agreement is freely given and that the device user’s rights are understood. It is a good example of the way we have to address specific developments in forensics within an overall framework of regulation and public trust. One of our priorities is to ensure that law enforcement has access to all the evidence necessary for its investigations and to put behind bars those criminals who need to be put there, so we will also look at the legal framework for suspects to make sure it stands the test of time, and enables timely, thorough and fair investigations.

The third pillar of our strategy is criminal justice system capabilities. We have developed a model to measure the impact that forensic disciplines can have on the investigation and prosecution of crime throughout the criminal justice system, to make sure that evidence is fairly and properly presented in court and that it is robust and, crucially, presented properly to the court’s practitioners. That strand of work will also increase the transparency of expert witnesses’ credentials and ensure that defendants have equal access to those experts. The Crown Prosecution Service and the Judicial Office, again with other partners, are also helping to oversee and deliver that important strand of work. I would be happy to provide my right hon. Friend the Member for Tunbridge Wells with more information on that, as he requested.

The fourth pillar, of course, is research and development. We want to ensure that we are ahead of the game, particularly on development in forensics, making sure that we direct our research and capabilities towards those strands of work where we believe there will be most value for policing, and to make sure that we are not constantly playing catch-up with new technology, as we perhaps have been in the past. For example, we have work under way to enable crime scene investigators to capture fingerprints digitally at the scene and then transmit them instantly to where they are needed, as well as research into innovative ways to locate and recover microscopic body fluids, advancements in DNA techniques, and the role forensic intelligence plays in high-harm crimes such as county line gangs and drug violence.

In addition, Transforming Forensics and the FCN held a research and innovation festival week in 2021, with significant policing and industry engagement. Guidance for research and development stakeholders to access funding opportunities has been produced, and discussions with UKRI to identify options for future dedicated funding for forensic science needs are ongoing.

Taken with the legislation to give the Forensic Science Regulator those statutory powers, I hope that our reform programme represents a joined-up and concerted effort to address the issues facing forensic science in England and Wales. As I said earlier, we absolutely recognise the critical importance that forensics plays in the criminal justice system, and we will continue to work closely with the sector and other relevant partners to drive progress across these disciplines.

Police use of biometrics, such as DNA and fingerprints, plays a huge part in protecting the public. Last year, DNA linked more than 21,000 people to crimes, including 588 to murders and 491 to rapes. But biometrics are not without their challenges, and a number of hon. Members have referred to the challenge of facial recognition technology. We recognise that we have an overriding responsibility to keep the public safe and, where we can, we should equip the police with the techniques to do that.

We do believe that facial recognition will improve, or has the possibility of improving, public safety very significantly. Generations of police officers have used photographs of people to identify suspects, and more recently CCTV images have been a vital tool in investigations. There are many examples where suspect images have been matched to wanted known individuals, ensuring that they cannot evade justice when they cross force boundaries. What is changing is the ability to use computers to match images with increasing confidence and at speed, as well as to combine technologies such as surveillance cameras and facial recognition to greater effect.

As I hope Members know, live facial recognition trials have produced a significant number of arrests; we are up to 70 now, including for a double count of rape, robbery and violence, false imprisonment, breach of a non-molestation order, and assault on the police. My favourite story is that of the concert by a particular rock band in Cardiff that had been plagued by dippers—pickpockets and others stealing phones and wallets. Just advertising and notifying people that facial recognition was being used at that concert meant that the number of offences fell to zero. Indeed, South Wales police, which has been at the forefront of adopting this technology, produces about 100 identifications a month through retrospective facial recognition, reducing identification time from 14 days sometimes to hours, which is obviously critical when a dangerous criminal is at large.

[Carol Monaghan]

I thank the Minister for his comments. The issue is not the use of these images—I think we all understand the importance of using the images— but their long-term storage. That is where people start having some difficulties.

[Kit Malthouse]

I will come on to that in a moment. I just want to address the question of a legal framework. There is already a comprehensive legal framework around the operation of this technology. As Members will know, it has been tested through the courts. The police have broad common-law powers around the detection and investigation of crimes, including the use of technology, but there are other bits of interlocking legislation that need to be borne in mind.

Obviously, there is PACE—the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984—the Human Rights Act 1998, the Equality Act 2010 and, indeed, data protection legislation, all of which gives a framework in which the police must operate. They are also subject to regulation through the Information Commissioner’s Office on the retention and use of data, and through a range of oversight bodies—happily, some external and some internal. As Members will know, a number of forces have, for example, ethics panels that are looking at the use of this technology. I will point Members who are interested to my appearance last week in front of the House of Lords Justice and Home Affairs Committee, which is looking at exactly this issue—the ethics and regulatory regime around the use of biometrics in particular.

We helped the police to appoint a chief scientific adviser, and forces have access to further support from their own ethics committees, as I said, as well as the Police Digital Service, the College of Policing and others. We have been working with the police to clarify the circumstances in which they can use live facial recognition and the categories of people they can look for, and I am told that the College of Policing will be publishing national guidance soon. That is a word that I have come to love in this job—“soon”, “soonest”, “shortly”.

It is of course an important part of our democratic process that people can raise and debate, including here in Parliament, legitimate concerns about police use of new technologies, and that legal challenges can be made in the courts, as has been referred to. Bridges v. South Wales police is an example.

I know that Members will recognise the importance of the police holding a bank of custody images for the potential identification of suspects and, often, witnesses. However, it is important that the public understand their rights in relation to the biometric data of all kinds that is held on them, and in particular their images. Last year, the National Police Chiefs’ Council established a new working group to develop further guidance on the retention of custody images. Through that group, the Home Office has worked with the police to issue new guidance stressing that people have the right to request deletion of their custody images. The police will communicate that guidance through various means to complement the existing information that is already available online and elsewhere. However, it remains the Government’s ambition to deliver an automatic deletion system for these images. We hope to do that during this Parliament, and I would be happy to supply the Science and Technology Committee with more details when I have them in due course.

Oral Answers to Questions

Carol Monaghan Excerpts

Tuesday 9th June 2020 Commons Chamber

[Robert Buckland]

I am extremely grateful to my hon. Friend for his work on this matter and I am happy to continue to meet him on it. I had hoped to publish our report on the consultation about now, but covid, I am afraid, has affected things. My aim is to publish later this summer in accordance with his wishes, but I will of course engage with him on the matter.

[Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP) [V]]

A recent study by the London School of Economics has shown that people are torn about using the contact-tracing app, due to civil liberties concerns. To increase public confidence, will the Secretary of State commit to bringing forward a legislative framework and independent oversight of the app to protect human rights?

[Robert Buckland]

I thank the hon. Lady for that question. She knows that the Isle of Wight pilot is still ongoing and the precise nature of the app to be used has yet to be determined. I am quite clear—and I have been clear to the Joint Committee on Human Rights—that, if there was to be any change in the basis of the use of data, legislation would be necessary. But the important points for me are consent of the subject and indeed the use of that data and confidentiality. If the existing parameters are maintained, legislation might not be necessary, but we will have to wait to see the precise ambit of the app.

Sports Coaches (Positions of Trust)

Carol Monaghan Excerpts

Wednesday 4th March 2020 Westminster Hall

[Tracey Crouch]

I remember the debate that the hon. Gentleman mentions and to which I responded. I entirely agree that there has been far too much talk, which is why I secured this debate.

I will return to what sport was doing in 2016 and early 2017 to maximise protections against abuse in sport. As well as football, other sports—with support from Sport England and the NSPCC child protection in sport unit—also made positive changes in a relatively short time to the way that they keep their participants safe. They rightly took responsibility and took it seriously.

They asked for just one thing from the Government, which was to extend the positions of trust legislation to include sports coaches. That was a perfectly reasonable request—one with which the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport agreed—but the Government have failed to deliver on that ask and, as a result, we have potentially put other youngsters at risk from abusive coaches.

Under the Sexual Offences Act 2003, it is illegal for certain professions, such as teachers, to engage in sexual activity with a 16 or 17-year-old, as they are considered a person in a position of trust. The Act proscribes a limited number of roles but does not extend into a range of non-statutory settings that may be subject to far less scrutiny than those covered by the Act.

[Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP)]

I congratulate the hon. Lady on securing the debate. I declare an interest as both a teacher and a gymnastics coach. The relationships that coaches of gymnastics and other sports develop with athletes can, without a shadow of a doubt, be far deeper than those of other teachers, because of the amount of time spent in their company, particularly with elite athletes. We have to get this absolutely right to protect children.

[Tracey Crouch]

As somebody who coached in football for a very long time, I understand where the hon. Lady is coming from. I completely agree that the relationships that coaches build with the people in their care as they develop in their sports journey are incredibly important. I vividly remember an email that I received from somebody after the abuse stories came to light. They were also a teacher, but they had not realised that the positions of trust legislation, under which they operated every day in their professional life as a teacher, did not extend to times when they independently stood at the side of a football pitch as a coach.

Our colleague, the hon. Member for Rotherham (Sarah Champion), has done some excellent work on this matter. The report from the all-party parliamentary group on safeguarding in faith settings should be required reading for anyone who cares about the issue.

We should perhaps reflect briefly on why we have that particular section of legislation in the 2003 Act. People who work in schools, as carers or as youth workers, will have gone through the required disclosure and barring service checks. Although some might fall through the cracks, ultimately, people who pose a known risk to children or vulnerable adults will not, if the system works properly, be allowed to work in that sector. The legislation adds an extra layer of safeguarding to prevent those in positions of trust from forming relationships with children who, although they are over the age of consent, are not considered legal adults and could be abused given the nature of the power balance.

I have spent a significant amount of my life coaching, so I can tell the Minister that I concur with sports and the NSPCC that in sport especially, but not exclusively, the elite pathway is a vulnerable area. In my view, the Ministry of Justice should have acted positively and straightaway to close as soon as possible the loophole in the 2003 Act.

Oral Answers to Questions

Carol Monaghan Excerpts

Tuesday 9th October 2018 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

We have heard it from Harlow, so I think we should hear it from Glasgow.

[Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP)]

20. Thank you, Mr Speaker, for allowing me to come in on this question. Scotland aims to be the world’s first trauma-aware nation by considering the link between adverse childhood experience and future offending, so will the Minister look at the work being done in Scotland to break the cycle of offending and imprisonment of some of the most vulnerable individuals in our society?

[Edward Argar]

I thank the hon. Lady for her question. I am always happy to look at the devolved nations for examples of best practice from which we might learn. She is right to highlight the links in this area, which is one reason why, in the victims strategy, we allocated moneys to support children who have witnessed domestic abuse in their past—to help to break that cycle and give them a chance of recovery.

Oral Answers to Questions

Carol Monaghan Excerpts

Tuesday 24th April 2018 Commons Chamber

[Lucy Frazer]

It is very important that when cases are started, they are heard expediently, so that people are not prejudiced and do not have to wait for justice. I am happy to meet my hon. Friend to talk about those issues.

[Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP)]

2. What recent assessment he has made of the effectiveness of community sentences on reducing reoffending rates.

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Rory Stewart)]

This is something the Department studied in detail in 2015, and we have conclusive evidence that giving somebody a community sentence rather than a short custodial sentence reduces reoffending over a one-year period.

[Carol Monaghan]

We have evidence of that in Scotland as well. The Scottish Government’s move towards community payback orders has helped Scotland to achieve its current 18-year low in reoffending. Is the Minister looking to the Scottish Government’s example and considering how they have managed to achieve these figures?

[Rory Stewart]

Absolutely. We have a lot to learn from Scotland, specifically on community sentences, and indeed we will be looking at what more we can do to emphasise that a custodial sentence in the short term should be a final resort. In reoffending terms, it is often much better for somebody to be given a community sentence.

European Union (Withdrawal) Bill

Carol Monaghan Excerpts

Committee: 7th sitting: House of Commons
Wednesday 13th December 2017 Commons Chamber

[Dr Whitford]

The hon. Lady is absolutely right. Among other things, we are talking about preparing for a future deal, but the suffering and anxiety of EU nationals and EU national families in this country is already happening. They should have been given surety the morning after the vote, but instead we heard phrases such as “bargaining chips” and “playing cards” and were told they were key in the negotiations.

[Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that young early-career researchers in the academic sector, for example, are highly mobile and can easily move elsewhere? We should be rolling out the red carpet for them to make sure they stay, but instead we are treating them worse than dirt on our shoes.

[Dr Whitford]

I absolutely agree. As I said, we have lost 10,000 EU nationals from our health services. We have seen a greater than 90% drop in the number of EU national nurses registering to come here. It is not just about protecting the people already here. For the four NHSs across the UK, the workforce is one of their biggest issues, yet we are sending out such an unwelcoming signal that we will struggle to attract anyone else.

Oral Answers to Questions

Carol Monaghan Excerpts

Tuesday 5th September 2017 Commons Chamber

[Dominic Raab]

The hon. Lady is right to refer to the ending of the fees and the proposals for reimbursement that we will bring forward shortly. If there were potential claims that should have been made but were not, anyone who was unable to bring a claim can submit to the employment tribunal to have their case heard outside the usual time limits. The judiciary will consider those applications case by case.

[Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP)]

10. What his Department’s policy is on the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice in the UK after the UK leaves the EU.

[Brendan O’Hara (Argyll and Bute) (SNP)]

17. What his Department’s policy is on the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice in the UK after the UK leave the EU.

[The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Mr David Lidington)]

The Government have been clear that in leaving the EU we will bring about an end to the direct jurisdiction of the Court of Justice of the European Union in the United Kingdom.

[Carol Monaghan]

As you know, Mr Speaker, Scotland has its own distinct legal system. Brexit will have a direct impact on that system, on justice agencies in Scotland and on a range of devolved issues. Will the Secretary of State confirm that that distinction will be given serious consideration as the Brexit negotiations progress?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Gyimah]

Every death in custody is a tragedy, and I offer my condolences to the families of my hon. Friend’s constituents. We have increased the staffing level at HMP Bristol by 31 prison officers in the past year. I chair a weekly safer custody meeting with officials to drive forward improvements, and I review the details of every self-inflicted death to see how we might prevent others. We have also launched an internal review of our approach to safer custody, specifically in relation to mental health patients, and I would be willing to visit my hon. Friend’s prison in order to deal with this further.

[Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP)]

T7. Last week, a Tory peer said that Brexit was a good thing because our young people would be able to work longer hours. Can the Minister confirm that his Government will continue to guarantee protections for workers in accordance with the European working time directive?

[Mr Lidington]

The Prime Minister could not have been clearer: we are committed to the best possible employment conditions for all British workers. We have a fine record of achievement on that, and we will ensure that when we leave the EuropeanUnion, there is no diminution in workers’ rights.

Oral Answers to Questions

Carol Monaghan Excerpts

Tuesday 25th April 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gyimah]

Employment in prisons, but also preparing prisoners for employment on release, is vital if we are to stop reoffending. The New Futures Network, which my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has launched, will work with a range of organisations, including public sector organisations, to help to create employment opportunities for prisoners.

[Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP)]

15. If the Government will take steps to ensure that any provisions proposing changes to human rights protection in UK law which result from the UK leaving the EU are laid before Parliament for scrutiny.

[The Minister for Courts and Justice (Sir Oliver Heald)]

The answer is yes.

[Carol Monaghan]

Amnesty International, Liberty and other human rights groups have raised the issue of diminished human rights protection as a result of the great repeal Bill and the Government’s plans to correct the statute book through secondary legislation. Will the Minister provide more detail on the extent of these correction powers and whether the changes will include human rights protections?

[Sir Oliver Heald]

As the hon. Lady will know, I cannot make any announcements today because of purdah, but what I can say is that, as I explained in giving evidence to two Select Committees, it is not our intention to have any gaps in our human rights protections.

Oral Answers to Questions

Carol Monaghan Excerpts

Tuesday 24th January 2017 Commons Chamber

[Sir Oliver Heald]

I do agree with that. I think it important for us to sort out the EU side of matters, and the exit from the EU, before we return to that subject.

[Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP)]

20. In Scotland there is strong cross-party support for the European convention on human rights and the Human Rights Act, both in Parliament and throughout civil society. Does the Minister agree that any attempt to repeal existing rights will be likely to provoke a constitutional crisis?

[Sir Oliver Heald]

I do not accept that the sort of changes we are proposing to consider once the situation is known about our exit from the EU would be a crisis-making combination. This country has always had a proud respect for human rights; it long predates the Human Rights Act, and I think we can all agree on that.

Oral Answers to Questions

Carol Monaghan Excerpts

Tuesday 26th January 2016 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Selous]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and I pay tribute to his long interest and great expertise in this particular issue. He will probably know that local commissioning groups in England and local health boards in Wales are responsible for services in the community. NHS healthcare staff in prisons are responsible there. It is their job to make sure that services provided in the prison are followed through in the community. We go to great efforts to make sure that happens.

[Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP)]

T7. Will the Secretary of State meet his colleague the Immigration Minister to explain that the Minister’s Bill, which would allow migrant families to be evicted without even a court order, is contrary to the rule of law and the right to a fair hearing, and must be urgently reconsidered?

[Michael Gove]

I enjoy meeting both the Home Secretary and the Immigration Minister, and this Government would never do anything that was contrary to the rule of law, but we must ensure that we safeguard our borders. It is an issue of profound public concern that immigration across the European Union is not being effectively controlled. Our Home Secretary is in the lead in taking the measures necessary to keep our borders secure. I would have thought it would be in the interests of every citizen of the United Kingdom to stand behind her in that fight.