Data Protection Bill [ Lords ] (First sitting)

Brendan O'Hara Excerpts

Tuesday 13th March 2018 Public Bill Committees

[The Chair]

I remind Members—particularly new Members—that new clause 12 is being debated now, but will not be voted on, if Members wish to have a vote, until we have completed consideration of the Bill. Today’s debate is on clause 2 and new clause 12, but the vote on the new clause will come later.

[Brendan O'Hara (Argyll and Bute) (SNP)]

I rise in support of new clause 12, for two reasons. With the Bill as it stands, we see an erosion of the rights of UK citizens in a range of areas. This is particularly important because, as drafted, the EU (Withdrawal) Bill, eliminates important rights that are protected by article 8 which would otherwise constrain Ministers’ ability to erode the fundamental data protection rights that we currently enjoy.

On top of that, it is essential that, post-Brexit, the United Kingdom has an adequacy agreement with the rest of the European Union. As we have heard from the right hon. Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill, if the United Kingdom fails to secure an adequacy agreement, I fear there will be a flight of high-tech, high-skilled jobs from the United Kingdom to other parts of the European Union.

For the UK to be able to take full advantage of this vital continued free flow of data with the rest of the European Union post Brexit, the most straightforward route is an adequacy agreement. As I have heard argued before, that decision is not as straightforward as one would hope. An adequacy agreement is not simply in the Commission’s gift to give; it is a legal judgment.

If I could point again to the data protection lawyer, Rosemary Jay, who said that the EU had to go through a legislative process, and it was simply not in the EU’s gift to do this in any informal way. The Commission has to go through a legislative process in order to give the UK an adequacy agreement. There are further complications because, with an adequacy agreement, the European Commission has to consider a variety of issues, such as the rule of law, respect for human rights, and legislation on national public security and criminal law. That being so, as it currently stands, the Investigatory Powers Act may well prove a block to achieving adequacy. The Act has already been accused of violating the European Union’s charter of fundamental rights. Eduardo Ustaran, the internationally recognised expert, has said:

“What the UK needs to do is convince the Commission—and perhaps one day the European Court of Justice—that the Investigatory Powers Act is compatible with fundamental rights. That’s a tall order”.

While I can understand that the Government are absolutely desperate to secure an adequacy agreement, the harsh reality is that, in these challenging circumstances and with this challenging legal process, it is not going to be as simple as perhaps we had hoped.

No one wants this situation to arise; it is absolutely essential that we have this deal, but, as GDPR evolves over time—as it surely will—in order to maintain that adequacy status, should we attain it, the UK will have to keep its data protection law in line with GDPR. The EU charter of fundamental rights and freedoms is absolutely central to EU data protection law. If we exclude ourselves now from article 8, the chances of achieving adequacy are seriously jeopardised, and the chances of maintaining adequacy are further jeopardised. I urge the Government please to consider the long and short-term consequences of not accepting this new clause. Without article 8, I cannot see how we will achieve or maintain adequacy, and if we cannot achieve and maintain adequacy, the consequences for UK high-tech businesses are unfathomable.

[Darren Jones (Bristol North West) (Lab)]

Thank you, Mr Hanson. It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship on my first Bill Committee.

I rise to support the comments made by my right hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill about the importance of adequacy and its link to article 8 of the charter of fundamental rights, and therefore in support of new clause 12. The Bill is pragmatic in seeking to bring GDPR principles into areas of non-EU competence and to provide a legislative parking space for GDPR if the UK leaves the European Union. However, we cannot get away from the fact that GDPR in itself has a legal basis that is anchored to the European charter of fundamental rights. In trying to copy and paste that level of protection into UK law, we must therefore also bring with it the fundamental rights to which it is attached.

--- Later in debate ---

[Brendan O'Hara]

Does the Minister not accept that the countries she just listed were in an entirely different situation from the one that the United Kingdom finds itself in at the moment, where it is withdrawing from, rather than joining? One cannot compare like with like, because they are two entirely different situations. I believe that we are putting ourselves outside the scope of the GDPR and of achieving adequacy. The countries that she talked about took many years to achieve an adequacy agreement. The United Kingdom does not have that time. If the United Kingdom does not achieve adequacy on day one post-Brexit, does she not agree that the economy of the United Kingdom will suffer greatly as a result?

Blagging: Leveson Inquiry

Brendan O'Hara Excerpts

Wednesday 7th March 2018 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

I respect my right hon. and learned Friend’s view. Indeed, it was an honour to serve with him in government. But the question that faces us is: what is the right thing to do now to ensure that we have high-quality democratic discourse, when the press face such great challenges, and to tackle fake news, deliberate disinformation, clickbait and the impact of the internet, which was hardly covered by this inquiry? We are taking that work forward. As I mentioned in my statement, allegations of behaviour such as this were covered and looked into by the original inquiry, and there were extensive police investigations. If it comes to another police case into these allegations, the existing law is there to cover it.

[Brendan O'Hara (Argyll and Bute) (SNP)]

Clearly these new reports are worrying and only add to the serious concerns that many of us across the House have about the behaviour of the press. Scottish National party Members have always said that individuals should be able to seek redress when they feel they have been the victim of press malpractice, and it benefits every one of us to have a media that is both transparent and accountable.

I repeat that if Leveson 2 is to be set up, the Scottish Government must be consulted and Scotland’s distinct legal system recognised. In those circumstances, we would support efforts to establish a new UK-wide press inquiry. What action, if any, is the Secretary of State proposing to take on these new allegations? Can he guarantee that if an inquiry is established, it would happen only after consultation with the Scottish Government and would take into account and respect Scotland’s distinct legal system?

[Matt Hancock]

Of course I respect the constitutional settlement. Action is necessary as a result of these revelations, and it is action for the police into allegations of what appear to be criminal activities.

Data Protection Bill [Lords]

Brendan O'Hara Excerpts

Money resolution: House of Commons & Programme motion: House of Commons
Monday 5th March 2018 Commons Chamber

[Brendan O'Hara (Argyll and Bute) (SNP)]

The Scottish National party acknowledges the need for a new and comprehensive data protection framework that safeguards human rights, and updates UK data protection law to bring it in line with the European Union’s general data protection regulation. We want a Data Protection Bill that makes the UK’s data protection laws fit for the digital age, that enshrines the principle of transparency and accountability and that gives all citizens and consumers greater control over who has access to their personal information and what those parties can do with it.

Despite what we have heard in the debate, this is a wide-ranging and complicated Bill. The House is agreed on many aspects of it, but in certain crucial areas, it falls short of what we expect from modern data protection legislation. Specifically, we are concerned about the Bill’s provisions on the UK’s derogation from the GDPR for the purposes of effective immigration control. We also have concerns about automated decision making, the use of national security certificates and the lack of provision for collective redress. We are also very concerned about the consequences for the UK as it tries to secure an adequacy agreement with the European Union, post Brexit.

As the Secretary of State is well aware, SNP Members and the Scottish Government are extremely concerned about clause 168, which concerns section 40 of the Crime and Courts Act 2013. Clause 168 was inserted in the other place and impinges on areas wholly devolved to the Scottish Parliament. Although we will be as constructive as possible in assisting the passage of the Bill, we will table our own amendments and support other Members’ amendments on those issues in Committee.

We will definitely seek to challenge paragraph 4 of part 1 of schedule 2, which is effectively an immigration exemption that permits the Government to collect and hold data without subject knowledge; we find that deeply worrying. Equally concerning is that there is no legal definition of immigration control, or the maintenance of effective immigration control, anywhere in the Bill. Given that effective immigration control is both highly subjective and highly political, I fear it will make individuals’ rights extremely susceptible to changes in political tides. This broad, wide-ranging exemption is fundamentally unfair, and it runs contrary to basic human rights. It is unprecedented and as unnecessary as it is disproportionate.

Under this exemption, the Government will remove any obligation they have under data protection law to inform an individual that their data has been transferred to the Home Office for immigration control purposes. The individual concerned would not know that their data was being held, or that they were under investigation. They would have no right to see what data of theirs was being held by the Home Office, or to find out why it was being held. They would have no way of checking the accuracy of the information held by the Home Office, and they would have no way of correcting any mistakes in that information, which could be used by the Home Office to decide whether they could live in this country.

That means that one early error in data collection or processing could become indisputable fact by the time it reached the Home Office, and the Home Office could base its case against an individual on that. As MPs, we all know how often information held on individuals turns out to be wrong. This is an issue of basic fairness, and it is little wonder that the measure has been roundly condemned by numerous civil liberties groups and by many in the legal profession.

If the measure is enacted, it would be a fundamental change to the way things currently work, whereby data held on an individual can be obtained through a subject access request. As it stands, the Home Office, the applicant and the applicant’s legal representative all have access to the same information, and it is that information on which claims and legal challenges are based. Surely, if both sides do not have access to the same information, the fairness of legal proceedings is inevitably compromised.

Subject access requests are often the only route through which legal professionals can obtain access to such information, and thereby understand the complicated immigration history of some of their clients. Indeed, for applicants who have been the victim of domestic abuse and who were in a controlling relationship for years before seeking help on immigration matters, a subject access request may be their only way of establishing their basis for settlement and for gaining independence from an abusive partner. This exemption will reduce a legal representative’s ability to best represent their client, and it will remove an important tool in holding the Home Office to account when it ignores or seeks to misrepresent the facts.

Further to the comments of the hon. Member for West Bromwich East (Tom Watson), we also strongly recommend that the Government look again at clause 183, and make provision for suitably qualified non-profit organisations to pursue action against data protection infringements of their own accord. This kind of enforcement, where one person or body represents a group of individuals, is known as collective redress. As it stands, clause 183 only allows individuals to request that suitably qualified organisations take up a case on their behalf, rather than allowing such organisations to highlight where they believe a breach of data protection law has occurred.

All too often, individuals are the last to know that their data has been unlawfully used, and in many cases those best placed to identify unlawful practices are the organisations that do the independent research and investigation. We hope that clause 183 can be amended to ensure that not-for-profit organisations have the right to raise complaints themselves when they consider that people’s data protection rights have been infringed.

I also want to raise the matter of automated decision making and, in particular, clause 14, which permits exemptions from the right not to be subject to an automated decision. We strongly believe that automated decision making without human intervention should be subject to the strictest limitations, and it has to address fairness, transparency, accountability and issues of discrimination. The Bill provides insufficient safeguards. This is not about an online retailer suggesting what book or song someone might wish to download, based on previous purchases; this is about decisions being made without human oversight that can have long-term, serious consequences for an individual’s health, or their financial, employment or legal status.

As I understand it, clause 48 would allow law enforcement agencies to make purely automated decisions. This is fraught with danger and is, we believe, not only at odds with the Data Protection Act 1998, but against article 22 of the GDPR, which gives individuals the right not to be subject to purely automated decisions. The GDPR contains provision for EU member states to opt out of this, but that opt-out does not apply if the data subject’s rights, freedoms and legitimate interests are undermined. I urge the Government to look again at those parts of the Bill on automated decision making and to make it explicit that where automated processing is carried out, a human will have to decide whether it is reasonable and appropriate to continue. That human intervention will provide transparency and accountability, and ensure that the state is not infringing an individual’s fundamental rights, liberties and privacy. Those issues are often subjective and beyond the concept of an algorithm.

Another area of concern, which we will raise in Committee, relates to the issuing of national security certificates, which allow restriction of and exemption from a wide range of rights in the Bill and the GDPR on the basis of national security and defence. It is right that a country should have an ability to do what is deemed to be in the best interests of its national security, but many would argue that, since 1998, national security certificates have received insufficient scrutiny of their impact on privacy or their proportionality. We are concerned that the proposals in the Bill go much further than those in the Data Protection Act 1998. We question whether the broad and indefinite nature of those national security exemptions is necessary and proportionate and whether the oversight of the issuing of national security certificates is sufficient. As the Bill is drafted, an individual’s rights could be removed by a politician without any form of judicial oversight. Surely it cannot be right for an individual’s rights to be undermined so easily, purely on the say-so of a Minister.

Of course, even in normal circumstances, the passage of this Bill would be challenging, given its nature, size, scope and complexity, but it has to be seen against the backdrop of Brexit, as does everything we do and have done for the past two years. We have to not only comply with the GDPR, but do so in such a way that the United Kingdom achieves an adequacy decision from the European Commission, allowing it to continue to operate securely and freely within the framework of the GDPR. I fear that much of what is proposed in this Bill, particularly on the immigration exemption and the national security certificates, jeopardises achieving that adequacy decision, as before granting such a decision the European Commission is obliged to consider a variety of issues, including respect for fundamental rights. As we have heard, the GDPR will evolve over time, and the UK will have to maintain adequacy, and that means amending our data protection to keep it in line with European law.

My final point relates to amendment 147 from the other place, which will have the same effect as implementing section 40 of the Crime and Courts Act 2013. The Minister is aware that although data protection is a reserved issue, both criminal justice and press regulation are wholly devolved to the Scottish Parliament. Furthermore, the concept of exemplary damages does not exist in Scots law, and the Scottish Government have no intention of changing the law for the purposes of incentivising participation in a press regulation system. As it stands, this Bill seeks to regulate the press by means of civil procedure, both of which, as I say, are devolved to the Scottish Parliament.

As I said in the Chamber last week, we believe that all individuals should be able to seek redress when they feel they have been the victim of press malpractice, and the Scottish Government will continue to engage with the Scottish press on independent self-regulation. The Secretary of State has had correspondence on this matter from myself and Fiona Hyslop, the Scottish Government’s Cabinet Secretary for Culture, Tourism and External Affairs, who wrote to the UK Government last month making clear the Scottish Government’s position on this matter. On the second part of the Leveson inquiry, she was equally clear that press regulation and any associated issues around the culture, practices and ethics of the press would be a matter for the Scottish Government and that in any future inquiry, the distinct legal context in Scotland must be taken into account. It benefits every one of us to have a data protection regime that is transparent and accountable and that has at its heart the rights of the individual to control what happens with their data.

Although there is much that we agree on in this Bill, there are areas that give us serious cause for concern. In Committee, we will therefore table amendments and support others’ amendments that seek to address concerns about the immigration exemption, collective redress, automated decision making, the scope of national security certificates and, of course, section 40 as it relates to Scotland. These amendments will seek to strengthen the Bill, to guarantee that everyone’s human rights are protected equally and to ensure that, going forward, the UK has the best chance of securing the adequacy decision that it requires, post Brexit.

Leveson Inquiry

Brendan O'Hara Excerpts

Thursday 1st March 2018 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

Yes, of course. Not only have I made this statement today, but I will also be publishing a full response to the consultation, with full details—I will place a copy in the Library. I look forward to coming before the Select Committee to discuss this question narrowly, and also to discuss the wider actions we are taking, in which my hon. Friend is playing an important part, to make sure that we have a sound basis for political discourse in this country.

[Brendan O'Hara (Argyll and Bute) (SNP)]

I thank the Secretary of State for prior sight of his statement. I wrote to him on 22 February seeking an update on progress with the inquiry and asking if and when it would be implemented. I am pleased he has come to the Dispatch Box today at least to clarify that.

The Secretary of State will also be aware that the Scottish National party is absolutely committed to ensuring that the practices that led to Leveson in the first place do not happen again. Our position has always been that, should a UK-wide part 2 of Leveson go ahead, it must take into account the distinct legal context in Scotland.

We firmly believe that all individuals should have a right to redress when they feel that they have been a victim of malpractice. However, the Scottish Government have absolutely no plans to introduce statutory incentives for the press in Scotland to sign up to a state-approved regulator. Press regulation and the operation of the civil courts are areas that are clearly within the devolved competence of the Scottish Parliament, so can the Secretary of State assure us that he will respect the devolution settlement and the independence of the Scottish legal system? Does he agree that, by not doing so, he would set a dangerous precedent in determining the ability of the Scottish Parliament to take decisions in devolved areas?

[Matt Hancock]

I agree wholeheartedly with the hon. Gentleman. It is, of course, part of the devolution settlement that these issues are dealt with in Scotland. I of course respect the separate and distinct legal system in this area. He asks whether we will respect that in future, and he knows as well as I do that amendments have been made to the Data Protection Bill in the other place—that Bill will have its Second Reading in this House on Monday—that, with respect to data protection only, require a Leveson 2-type inquiry and the commencement of section 40 on a UK-wide basis. I look forward to discussing with the hon. Gentleman how we can make sure that we have the respect we need for the devolution settlement and for the Scottish press. The single best way that we can deal with the problem he rightly raises is by disposing of those amendments in their entirety.

Proposal for Designation of Age-verification Regulator

Brendan O'Hara Excerpts

Thursday 1st February 2018 General Committees

[Brendan O'Hara (Argyll and Bute) (SNP)]

I welcome the Minister to her place. If nothing else, to be the person remembered for persuading the right hon. Member for Mid Sussex to get on Twitter puts her in the pantheon of the greats of this House. Unlike the right hon. Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill, I have not had the delight of visiting the “Matt Hancock MP” app, but I certainly have my weekend’s relaxation sorted out. I look forward to the experience.

I share many of the concerns that the right hon. Gentleman expressed around the BBFC’s funding, resources and ability to do the job that it will be charged with doing. Broadly, the Scottish National party supports this age-verification measure, but we are aware that it is not a silver bullet. It has to be part of a much wider package around education and broader internet child safety. We have concerns, which we have expressed in the past, about data protection and individual privacy issues. Privacy, anonymity and proportionality at all times are very important.

We would like to know more about the software that is intended to be used. Are there mechanisms for the Government to report on improvements to the age-verification software as it progresses? How confident are they that the software is robust enough to deter a moderately tech-savvy teenager from getting round its security portals? What safeguards are there to ensure that the security is sufficiently stringent that the software cannot be hacked, leaked and subsequently exploited?

We are broadly supportive but we have questions about the software and about whether the BBFC has the wherewithal to deliver what the Government seek it to deliver.

[The Chair]

I notice that nine hon. Members were searching Twitter.

Sky/Fox Update

Brendan O'Hara Excerpts

Tuesday 23rd January 2018 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

The CMA’s report does address the fact that the proposed takeover by Disney is uncertain, and it sets out some details of potential options, given that uncertainty. Anybody can make written representations in the next three weeks, based on that interim report, and I will consider the question when I see the full report in the months to come.

[Brendan O’Hara (Argyll and Bute) (SNP)]

I thank the Secretary of State for advance sight of his statement. I have said many times in this place that plurality and diversity are vital components of an independent media, and therefore I welcome today’s findings by the CMA, which have put on the record the valid concerns that many people have about the further concentration of media ownership in fewer and fewer hands. Although the CMA has said that the deal, as it currently stands, does not meet the public interest test, I am pleased that it references a number of possible remedies.

We have heard reports that the owners of Sky might look to close down Sky News if it becomes an impediment in the takeover deal, with the possible loss of 500 jobs. Can the Secretary of State confirm that he will not allow employees of Sky to be used as pawns in any takeover when the final decision comes before him? If the takeover deal between Disney and Fox is likely to be green-lit, what impact will that have on his final decision, given Disney’s reported lack of interest in news broadcasting?

[Matt Hancock]

It is a matter of law that while consideration of the proposal is ongoing, Sky News cannot be shut down in advance of a decision—I can give the hon. Gentleman that assurance. He also made points about his views on the report published today; I shall reserve my judgement, see the final report and come to a conclusion based on that.

BBC Pay

Brendan O'Hara Excerpts

Tuesday 9th January 2018 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

I pay tribute to the work of my right hon. Friend—my predecessor—who has brought to the EHRC’s attention the importance of acting in this case. It has a statutory duty to act when it sees unequal pay, and I am glad that, as of this morning’s announcement, it is taking that forward.

[Brendan O'Hara (Argyll and Bute) (SNP)]

May I add my congratulations and best wishes to the Secretary of State as he takes up his new position? Does he agree that, as a publicly funded institution, the BBC has to be both transparent and accountable and that the existence of this secret gender pay gap in the corporation shows that it has been anything but? Perhaps that would explain why the BBC management were so vehemently opposed to having to publish how much the BBC pays its top-earning presenters. I am sure the whole House will join me in thanking my predecessor, Mr John Nicolson, and the Select Committee on Culture, Media and Sport for their work in exposing this scandal. Does the Secretary of State believe that the BBC has acted unlawfully in this matter? Is he confident that the BBC should continue to police itself in such matters? Iceland now insists that all companies with more than 25 employees obtain Government certification of their equal pay policies or face heavy fines. Does he believe it is time that the UK followed suit?

[Matt Hancock]

Given the action that Conservative Members have taken to bring this transparency to the BBC, one would have thought that the Scottish National party might say that that was a good idea or welcome it. We strongly support the BBC, but we also believe that it is acting in its own self-interest by sorting out these sorts of issues, and we will make sure that it does.

Oral Answers to Questions

Brendan O'Hara Excerpts

Thursday 21st December 2017 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

Yes, absolutely, and increasingly we need to ensure that the delivery works on both sides of the border. Obviously, what matters is getting the roll-out of superfast broadband to everybody in the borders and throughout the country. No matter where the administrative boundaries are, what matters is getting broadband connections to people.

[Brendan O’Hara (Argyll and Bute) (SNP)]

In this the season of good will, will the Minister join me in congratulating the Scottish Government following last week’s announcement that, despite it being a reserved matter, they are to invest £600 million in rolling out 30 megabit superfast broadband across Scotland, with priority given to rural Scotland, thereby making Scotland a truly world-class digital nation by 2021?

[Matt Hancock]

I will certainly join the hon. Gentleman in wishing a merry Christmas to everybody in the Scottish National party and the SNP Government in Scotland. I am delighted that, finally, three and a half years after being granted the money, they have got on with the start of the procurement, but it will take another year for the second phase of the roll-out to get going. He, and more importantly his constituents, will understand why we have grown tired of waiting for the Scottish Government and are getting on with delivering directly through local councils in Scotland in future.

Lotteries: Limits on Prize Values

Brendan O'Hara Excerpts

Tuesday 12th December 2017 Westminster Hall

[Brendan O'Hara (Argyll and Bute) (SNP)]

It is as always a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship this afternoon, Sir Edward. I congratulate the hon. Member for North West Norfolk (Sir Henry Bellingham) on securing this important debate, and pay tribute to all those who contributed. The SNP in this place and the Scottish Government agree that the current law covering society lotteries is past its sell-by date and is in need of an overhaul. The restrictions placed on charity lotteries make that kind of fundraising increasingly difficult and complicated, and limit charity lotteries’ ability to support those working at the front line at a time when demands have never been greater and budgets have never been tighter.

Increasing the annual turnover limit and the draw limit will ensure that the moneys raised by society lotteries can be used to fund charities across the UK and the wider world, making a significant difference to the lives of individuals and communities. Like many hon. Members, while preparing for this debate I was contacted by numerous organisations seeking a change in the law. Among them was ActionAid, which explained that like many other UK charities it uses the income from its lottery to provide a level of service and support it would otherwise not be able to provide. The money that ActionAid receives goes on life-saving work here and around the world, including programmes aimed at tackling violence against women and girls in Kenya, Ghana, Ethiopia and Rwanda. As a result, ActionAid and many other charities are strongly petitioning the Government to change the legislation to allow the annual turnover on a single society lottery to rise from the current £10 million to £100 million, and to raise the individual draw limit on a single society lottery from the current £4 million to £10 million.

I take on board what the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) said, when he made his usual sensible contribution and highlighted the danger of encouraging further gambling, but I feel that there is a growing consensus that a change in the law is required. We have heard the Digital, Culture, Media and Sport Committee, the Lotteries Council, the Institute of Fundraising, the Hospice Lotteries Association, and many other charities such as ActionAid calling for that change.

One of the biggest concerns is the fear that increasing the scope of society lotteries will somehow have an adverse effect on the national lottery—as has been mentioned, there has been a drop in national lottery income and funds going to good causes this year. As I understand it, however, there is no evidence to suggest that the success of society lotteries has had a negative impact on the national lottery. Numerous studies by a range of organisations between 2012 and 2015 came broadly to the same conclusion that society lotteries complement the fundraising of the national lottery. The recent drop-off in people participating in the national lottery is believed to be due more to changes made by Camelot to the games themselves—both the Gambling Commission and Camelot recognise that.

In February this year the Gambling Commission stated:

“Despite remaining the most popular gambling activity, there has been a continued decline in participation in the National Lottery draws coinciding with, amongst other factors, the increase in ticket price from £1 to £2 which was introduced in October 2013.”

In September, Camelot was reported in the Financial Times as saying that

“the main reason for the fall in sales last year was the disappointing performance of the National Lottery’s core draw based games—especially Lotto, with player confidence in the game still fragile following the recent game changes.”

Let me be clear: this is not a case of playing off the national lottery against society lotteries. Indeed—perhaps worryingly—I find myself in complete agreement with the Secretary of State who said last month that

“we of course want to ensure that we have one strong national lottery, but that does not mean that we cannot also have strong society lotteries”.—[Official Report, 16 November 2017; Vol. 631, c. 565.]

I am therefore pleased therefore that Nigel Railton, Camelot’s new CEO, is on record as saying that, following an internal company review, he is optimistic that the national lottery will return to growth next year. I believe that we can have a world in which the national lottery and society lotteries co-exist, and that charities and good causes can continue to benefit.

We are all aware of the billions that the national lottery raises for good causes and we are delighted by that, but society lotteries also make a hugely valuable contribution and are successful in raising much needed funds for a wide range of charities and good causes. As the hon. Member for Cannock Chase (Amanda Milling) said, the current law means that there is a growing gap between what society lotteries do and what they could do. Nevertheless, they still raise a huge amount of money—as the hon. Members for Ceredigion (Ben Lake) and for North West Norfolk said, in 2011 society lotteries raised around £100 million for good causes, but they now raise more than £250 million. Such has been their success that that money has become one of the principal means of survival for many charities and organisations. As the hon. Member for Ceredigion said, society lotteries can help small local charities that could not otherwise access national lottery funding.

The hon. Member for Aldridge-Brownhills (Wendy Morton) and the right hon. Member for Witham (Priti Patel) spoke eloquently about the scope of local charities in their constituencies, and they were right to do so. However, not only local charities benefit. Many of the UK’s best known charities, such as Children 1st, the Red Cross, the Marine Conservation Society, the Royal Botanic Garden Edinburgh, Dogs Trust, Save the Children, WaterAid, the Riding for the Disabled Association, and the wonderful Mary’s Meals in my constituency, all benefit as well. Collectively, those charities are asking the Government to revisit the Gambling Act 2005 and make it fit for purpose. They argue that raising the existing cap on what society lotteries can pay out will allow more money to go to charity and good causes while reducing administration costs. The proposed changes have been much talked about—indeed, I understand that the Government’s review was announced on 15 December 2012, which means that this was first discussed five years ago this week.

If we raise the prize money cap on society lotteries, the amounts of money won would not be the complete life-changing experience that happens by winning the national lottery. The Select Committee recognised that. The Secretary of State said recently that the Government remain committed to helping both the national lottery and society lotteries to maximise their contribution to good causes by establishing the right conditions to help them thrive with the appropriate level of regulation. Again I agree, but surely it is time for them to get on and create the conditions that will allow both to thrive.

There is clearly broad cross-party consensus for change. We know that those changes will not come at a cost to the taxpayer or damage the national lottery, and they can be brought forward easily via secondary legislation. It therefore remains only for Ministers to stop delaying and to bring forward the proposed changes as soon as possible. If the Minister is unable to make an announcement today, will she at least provide a timescale for when we can expect such an announcement?

Rural Communities in Scotland: Broadband

Brendan O'Hara Excerpts

Wednesday 22nd November 2017 Westminster Hall

[John Lamont]

It is telling that only three nationalist Members are here this morning. That shows what their priorities are. While we are standing up for our constituents, who want better broadband, the nationalists are perhaps focused on other things.

[Brendan O'Hara (Argyll and Bute) (SNP)]

On the point that the hon. Member for Angus (Kirstene Hair) made, I will not embarrass myself or my party by asking where the Secretary of State is, because we would not expect him to attend such a debate. Can I take the hon. Gentleman back a few minutes? We all have localised problems with broadband and BT roll-out, but will he confirm that he said that he wants the Scottish Government stripped of their powers over broadband roll-out?

[John Lamont]

rose—

[John Lamont]

I am more than happy to confirm the point. The Scottish Government and Digital Scotland have failed. That is also the view of many of my constituents. The Scottish Government have had their chance and it is time for—

[Brendan O'Hara]

Stripped of their powers?

[Mr George Howarth (in the Chair)]

Order. The hon. Gentleman is a spokesman for his party. I realise he is very exercised about what Mr Lamont is saying in his speech, but he really should not be making comments from a sedentary position.

[John Lamont]

Thank you, Mr Howarth. Having spent 10 years in the Scottish Parliament, I am well used to listening to the SNP shouting from the sidelines, but not actually delivering anything for Scotland. Thankfully, we now have 13 Scottish Conservative and Unionist Members of Parliament, who are actually here to do a job, namely getting a better deal for our constituents, whether it be on broadband or any other policy area, unlike my nationalist friends, who are determined to take Scotland out of the United Kingdom and ignore every other policy area in this place.

[Brendan O'Hara]

rose—

[John Lamont]

I want to make some progress.

I have been critical of Digital Scotland and the Scottish Government for their failures to deliver for Scotland a broadband network fit for the current age. However, BT and Openreach are not without blame. Following negotiations and demands from Ofcom, Openreach is now a legally separate entity, but it is still wholly owned by BT’s parent holding company, BT Group plc. The situation we find ourselves in, with the digital divide between urban and rural, has been created by historical decisions made by BT. Had BT invested in our network in the way that I believe it should have, we would not be facing these challenges today. It has picked off the low-hanging fruit in broadband roll-out, focusing more on cities and commercially viable areas. I suggest that it has ignored the harder-to-get residents and communities because it knew it would cost too much. Too many communities have been forced to look at self-help options to find solutions for their poor broadband connections when Openreach has refused to help. My constituents are innovative and smart, but many have struggled with the bureaucracy of the schemes and the cost involved.

Ofcom’s December 2016 report, “Connected Nations”, which has been referred to, describes the urban-rural divide well. While 89% of premises in the United Kingdom can receive superfast broadband, there are 1.4 million premises that cannot get download speeds greater than 10 megabits per second. Those are disproportionately in rural areas, and the problem is particularly bad in Scotland.

[John Lamont]

The hon. Lady makes an important point, which demonstrates yet again the centralising tendencies of the nationalist Government in Edinburgh and their focus on the central belt, rather than devolving powers to the communities that we all represent.

The “Connected Nations” report highlights that only 46% of premises in rural Scotland can access superfast broadband, compared with 62% of rural premises in England. It is those premises that will benefit from the universal service obligation. I fully support the universal service obligation contained in the Digital Economy Act 2017, but I would argue that the minimum speed should be higher than 10 megabits per second, as originally suggested. I know that the Minister is considering a proposal by BT to deliver the USO outside the 2017 Act, which BT says it will be able to deliver quicker. However, I believe that BT has had its chance to deliver and has failed. The 2016 report from the British Infrastructure Group highlighted that in 2009 BT promised that 2.5 million homes would be connected to ultrafast fibre to premises services by 2012, which was 25% of the country, yet by September 2015 BT had managed to reach about 0.7% of homes.

Lastly on BT, residents in many rural communities feel angry—frankly, I share their anger—when Openreach tells them that it is not commercially viable to invest in their broadband connections, and yet they read in the press about BT splashing out £1.2 billion on the rights to televise the champions league. No, BT and Openreach have had their chance and they have failed to deliver for rural Scotland.

I suspect we will hear similar experiences from other Members, so I will draw my remarks to a conclusion. Ofcom’s “Connected Nations” report describes the situation well when it states:

“Fast, reliable communications enable businesses to generate prosperity and employment, and our countries to compete. They empower every citizen to take a full part in society and benefit from life’s opportunities. Communications also save lives, bind families and friends together, and keep us entertained.”

We need to act to bridge the broadband gap between urban and rural Scotland—the broadband haves and the broadband have-nots.

[Brendan O'Hara]

As the hon. Gentleman is bringing his remarks to a close, could I return to the question I asked a couple of moments ago, which he did not answer? He said that he wanted the Scottish Government stripped of its powers. Is that what he was saying?

[John Lamont]

I have been absolutely clear. The UK Government have tasked the Scottish Government to deliver superfast broadband in Scotland. The SNP Scottish Government have failed. These powers should be taken away and given to local authorities—Scottish Borders Council, Moray Council, Dumfries and Galloway Council; rural councils that understand what the local communities need—not this central-belt biased SNP Government in Edinburgh who are determined to have a second independence referendum while everything else gets ignored.

I ask the Minister to consider addressing the following points in his remarks. First, to confirm the point I made earlier to the nationalist Members, will the UK Government look at ensuring that local authorities in Scotland have a much greater role in the delivery of broadband, rather than the centralised model currently adopted by the SNP Scottish Government? Secondly, will the Government consider a higher level of universal service obligation to ensure that rural communities are future-proofed as digital technology continues to evolve? Lastly, I look forward to welcoming the Minister to my constituency in the near future so that he can hear at first hand the very challenging experiences that many of my constituents in the Scottish Borders have to deal with in terms of access to broadband.

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[Douglas Ross]

I fully agree with my hon. Friend. The SNP Government are only interested in the central belt of Scotland. They are only interested in holding powers in Edinburgh and not in further devolution. I am proud that the Scottish Conservative party and the UK Government are keen to see further devolution.

[Brendan O'Hara]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Douglas Ross]

I am afraid I have to make progress to allow the hon. Gentleman adequate time to sum up the debate.

The Library briefing for this debate shows that the urban and rural parts of Moray are being let down by the Scottish Government. In Speyside Glenlivet, 52% of connections receive speeds of less than 10 megabits per second. That is an extremely rural ward, yet in Elgin City North, 51% of connections are less than 10 megabits per second. That is not acceptable. In Heldon and Laich, almost 7% of connections receive speeds of less than 2 megabits per second. The SNP should be stripped of the powers because it is not delivering for Scotland. It is time to go direct to the local authorities and deliver true devolution.

I will quickly mention alternatives to the broadband roll-out. I recently met WiFi Scotland, an extremely successful small start-up company based in Elgin and run by Rob Cowan and Angus Munro. It provides wireless broadband services to the Orton and Rothes valley and is looking to expand into Mulben and Boharm. I recently facilitated a meeting for those two gentleman with Moray Council to ensure that we can streamline the planning process to allow them to develop the technology further.

I know that you would like me to conclude, Mr Howarth, so I will simply say that Moray is a great place to live and work—we even have award-winning high streets—but much of that work is in spite of, rather than because of our connectivity. Moray and Scotland deserve better than we are currently getting from the SNP Government. I welcome the announcements from the UK Government to give more power to local authorities.

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[Brendan O'Hara (Argyll and Bute) (SNP)]

As always, it is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Howarth. I cannot imagine you expected such a feisty start to your morning.

What we have seen this morning is probably best described as a missed opportunity to discuss sensibly and rationally what is happening across Scotland, particularly in our rural communities, as Conservative Members from Scotland decided they would rather score cheap political points. Every one of us has localised problems around broadband roll-out; when they let the cat out of the bag, what came out loud and clear this morning, from the hon. Members for Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk (John Lamont) and for Moray (Douglas Ross), is that the issue is actually about power stripping and taking powers away from the democratically elected Scottish Government.

I am not saying the Tories are predictable—although perhaps I am. We heard so much about the SNP’s evil centralisation that is taking place, so I took a quick look at the reality and what the figures actually say. By December 2018, access to fibre broadband in Aberdeen city will be 97.5%, in Aberdeenshire it will be 91%, in Angus 94%, in Dumfries and Galloway 97%, in the Scottish Borders 95%, and in Fife 99%.

[Douglas Ross]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Brendan O'Hara]

I will make some progress and come back to the hon. Gentleman.

If Scottish Conservatives want to talk about grievance and pick an issue with which to bash the Scottish Government, one would think they might find a far better way to deliver it.

[Stewart Malcolm McDonald]

rose—

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[Douglas Ross]

rose—

[Brendan O'Hara]

I will take an intervention from my hon. Friend first.

[Stewart Malcolm McDonald]

Is it not quite something to hear about centralisation from the party that abstained on the Community Empowerment and Renewal Bill, the biggest shift of power from the Government in Edinburgh to ordinary people?

[Brendan O'Hara]

My hon. Friend makes an absolutely excellent point, which goes to the contradiction at the heart of the Scottish Conservatives.

[Douglas Ross]

The hon. Gentleman says we are building up grievances. Will he explain that to my constituents who come to my surgeries explaining their frustrations with broadband roll-out? Will he also clarify for Hansard and for this House that the SNP does not want to give powers to local authorities in Scotland? That, too, is devolution, and I am surprised that SNP Members are so opposed to it.

[Brendan O'Hara]

I advise the hon. Gentleman to look at the Community Empowerment (Scotland) Act 2015. If that is not about devolving power to local communities, I do not know what is. We all have a mailbag full of broadband connection problems, but the fashion in which the Scottish Conservatives have behaved is unhelpful and unconstructive and does not reflect the reality.

In many ways I am delighted that digital communication is being debated here today, because it gives me the opportunity to enlighten the House as to exactly what is happening in Scotland and what the Scottish Government are doing in their Digital Scotland Superfast Broadband programme, which will have extended fibre access to 800,000 premises by March 2018, meaning that 95% of Scottish homes and businesses will be connected to superfast broadband. I am sure the whole House, with some honourable exceptions, will welcome that and applaud what the Scottish Government are doing.

This debate allows me to inform hon. Members of the enormously ambitious plans that the Scottish Government have—the R100 plans—that will see every home and business connected to superfast broadband with a USO of 30 megabits per second by 2021.

[Liam Byrne (Birmingham, Hodge Hill) (Lab)]

Can the hon. Gentleman clarify whether the Scottish Government have been empowered to deliver the devolution of powers that he seeks?

[Brendan O'Hara]

In terms of devolving to local authorities?

[Liam Byrne]

The hon. Gentleman seeks devolution of power from the Scottish Government to local councils. My understanding is that central Government still have to legislate on that. Is that his understanding?

[Brendan O'Hara]

That is precisely my understanding. It is not in the Scottish Government’s power. I absolutely agree with the right hon. Gentleman.

Unlike the United Kingdom Government, the Scottish Government are absolutely committed to a universal service obligation of 30 megabits per second. Compare that with the 10 megabit per second USO currently on offer from the UK Government.

As I say, we all have problems. My mailbag is absolutely full almost on a daily basis with problems with broadband. That does not mean that we are getting it wrong; it means, as my hon. Friend the Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun (Alan Brown) said, that we cannot keep up with demand. People rightly demand to be connected. In my constituency of Argyll and Bute, we are losing population. I have said from day one in my two and a half years in this House that digital connectivity is the key to regenerating rural Scotland. I applaud the Scottish Government’s ambition in rolling out superfast broadband at 30 megabits per second throughout rural Scotland.

I believe a bright digital future awaits those not only in Argyll and Bute, but across rural Scotland. Opposition naysayers will have humble pie to eat in a couple of years’ time when it arrives.

The hon. Member for East Lothian (Martin Whitfield) made a useful and thoughtful contribution highlighting the problems and challenges that exist in his constituency. It is a tale I am not unfamiliar with. I echo his call, as I have in the past, to end the silo thinking. There must be a joined-up approach, because digital exclusion will be a serious problem if we do not get this right.

The hon. Member for Angus (Kirstene Hair) made a remarkable contribution and blamed the SNP for the historical copper wiring in the BT network. What can one say? My hon. Friend the Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun rightly highlighted the historical failure of the UK Government to sufficiently invest in Scotland. He also highlighted the problems facing roll-out in rural Scotland.

The hon. Member for Moray repeated the power- stripping narrative of the hon. Member for Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk. If he thinks the Scottish Government should be stripped of their powers, does he think the UK Government should be stripped of their powers and that those powers should be devolved to English local authorities?

[Douglas Ross]

Unbelievable. The spokesperson for the third biggest party does not even realise that in England it is local authorities that deliver. It is because of their failure in Scotland that we should replicate what is happening in England and devolve further to local authorities. I cannot believe the SNP would object to that.

[Brendan O'Hara]

I absolutely do object to it. The Scottish Government, as we have seen, are doing an excellent job in rolling out across Scotland. The Scottish Government are delivering for Scotland.

I have less than two minutes left, so I will be quick and sum up. I firmly believe the Scottish Government are doing their best for Scotland. If the Tories would have us believe that they are the saviours of Scottish rural broadband, can the Minister explain why, since 2014, the UK Government have contributed only a derisory £21 million to support the expansion of Scottish fibre broadband—a figure that is less than that awarded to the counties of Devon and Somerset. Knowing full well that the Scottish Government were planning a USO of 30 megabits roll-out programme, why did the UK Government not even have the courtesy to inform the Scottish Government of their own plans to roll out 10 megabits per second, leaving the Scottish Government to find out from the pages of the press? And why did it take 10 letters over 18 months from the Scottish Government to the DDCMS before the Minister finally met Minister Fergus Ewing, a meeting that took place just two weeks ago?

Finally, when GigaPlus Argyll, the community broadband company on Mull in my constituency, was left high and dry when its contractors went into administration, why were my emails and phone calls totally ignored? They were not even acknowledged by BDUK when I was trying to secure an urgent meeting to salvage something from the wreckage to try to save that project. Why, when I made an appointment to see the Minister himself about the crisis in GigaPlus Argyll, did he not turn up, with not so much as an apology or an offer to reschedule? Scotland is doing a great job in rolling out digital broadband, and I commend the work that the Scottish Government are doing.

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[Matt Hancock]

The Scottish Government got more than their fair share because they had a higher proportion needing supported rather than commercial access.

Until now, the Scottish Government have been happy to take the credit when things have gone right, but pass the buck when things have gone wrong—we saw more attempts at that this morning—so I am going to set out what has been going on. In 2014, we gave the Scottish Government more than £20 million for phase 2 of their superfast roll-out. Three years later, they have not only failed to sign that contract, but have not even opened the procurement yet. The Scottish Government are three years behind the fastest English local authorities in contracting for their roll-out.

In fact, Scotland is behind every single English local authority, behind the Welsh Government, behind Northern Ireland in getting going on phase 2 of its broadband roll-out. My own county of Suffolk, for example, has not only contracted phase 2; it has already contracted phase 3. There is a similar story in most other parts of the country—but not in Scotland. Worse, the Scottish Government project will not have contracts signed until the end of next year, which will be after the roll-out of phase 1 has finished, so they risk broadband delivery companies downing tools after completing phase 1 of the project, before phase 2 is ready to go. Elsewhere in the country, they got phase 2 going before the end of phase 1.

It is a great cause for regret that the Scottish Government have for more than three years sat on £20 million of UK taxpayers’ money, which could have been used to deliver broadband for the people of Scotland. The hon. Member for Argyll and Bute (Brendan O'Hara) raised the question of that £20 million. We offered it in 2014. A further £60 million is being returned from the first contract because of the level of take-up in phase 1, and another £14.5 million from underspending on that contract, and £30 million from city deals. In total, there is £125 million of UK taxpayers’ money waiting to be spent in Scotland—waiting for the Scottish Government to get on with it. So you can see why we and the people of Scotland are rightly frustrated at the Scottish Government dragging their feet.

Throughout the process, BDUK has offered technical support and assistance to Digital Scotland to try to get things going, but it seems that the Scottish Government’s fixation with pipe dreams of independence has distracted them from the job of delivering to the people they are meant to serve. It is part of a pattern.

As a result of our experience of delivering superfast broadband through the Scottish Government thus far, we have decided that for the next generation of broadband technology—full fibre—we will instead deal directly with local authorities across Scotland, as we do in England. We have already had a fantastic response, and I am looking forward to going to Aberdeenshire next week to see their pilot of a local full-fibre network project and to see progress on a test bed for 5G. I look forward to working constructively with Digital Scotland to deliver on the next steps of the superfast project and with local authorities across Scotland to deliver the next generation of technology that is coming rapidly.

[Brendan O'Hara]

The Minister said a moment ago that BDUK is on hand to offer technical solutions. Perhaps he is coming to my direct question on the problems of GigaPlus Argyll. BDUK offered no solutions; it absolutely abandoned GigaPlus Argyll and ignored me, as the Member of Parliament, on numerous occasions.

[Matt Hancock]

The hon. Gentleman should have been talking to Digital Scotland, because we gave the money to Digital Scotland to deliver, and for three years it has sat on that money and done nothing with it. What we need from the Scottish Government is not noise, but action for the thousands of people who have seen nothing but buffering while the Scottish Government have sat on their hands and sat on the money.

[Brendan O'Hara]

So, for clarity, is the Minister saying that BDUK has no role to play in the position of GigaPlus Argyll, despite it having been set up through BDUK? Is he saying that BDUK has no role to play for an elected MP to contact?

[Matt Hancock]

In future, BDUK and the UK Government will be delivering our full-fibre, next generation technology directly to local authorities in Scotland, instead of through the Scottish Government, because we have been so disappointed with the failure of the Scottish Government to deliver on money that has already been allocated.