Oral Answers to Questions

Brandon Lewis Excerpts

Monday 23rd January 2017 Commons Chamber

[Nigel Mills (Amber Valley) (Con)]

5. What steps she is taking to ensure that police funding is fairly distributed.

[The Minister for Policing and the Fire Service (Brandon Lewis)]

The Government remain committed to reforming the current police funding arrangements to ensure a fairer, more up-to-date and transparent formula.

We are currently undertaking a period of detailed engagement with the policing sector and relevant experts, including academics. Any new formula, of course, will be subject to public consultation.

[Will Quince]

The current formula for allocating funding to our police forces uses data that are 14 years old. Does the Minister agree that it is time to update that formula?

[Brandon Lewis]

My hon. Friend makes a very good point, on which I know he has lobbied on behalf of his authority. I have spoken to the police and crime commissioner for Essex as well. It is true that the data are very much out of date. That is why it was in our manifesto to deliver a fairer funding formula review. That is what we are doing, and we will deliver on it.

[Nigel Mills]

The Minister will know that Derbyshire’s police force is also disadvantaged by the current formula. When can it expect to have the fair level of funding that it deserves?

[Brandon Lewis]

Derbyshire will get an increase in funding this year. I appreciate, having spoken to my hon. Friend and other colleagues who have spoken to me on behalf of Derbyshire, that there is a feeling that the formula is not currently fairly weighted with regard to a number of areas across the country. That is why it is important that we go through this process methodically. I am not going to give a timescale now. The sector and experts are working with us on this, and I am confident that we will get to the right position to have a clear, fair and transparent formula in good time.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

Does the Minister accept that the current proposed funding settlement for police forces is below the level of inflation? That means that the cost is going to fall on local taxpayers, with a 3.8% rise in my area of north Wales. Is that not just a transfer from central Government to local government?

[Brandon Lewis]

The Government have put in a flat cash funding protection for police funding during this spending review period, and that is a good thing to do. This situation partly results from the fact that we inherited such an awful economic legacy from the previous Labour Government, who spent money that the country simply did not have. We have to make sure that this country works to live within its means—that is an appropriate and sensible thing to do. I suggest that the right hon. Gentleman and Labour Members should look at doing that in order to have a sensible funding formula in future.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

We owe a debt of gratitude to the office of the police and crime commissioner for Devon and Cornwall for having discovered the mistake that led to the pausing of the review, but that was 15 months ago, and there really is no excuse for such a delay. I appreciate that the Minister inherited this problem, but can we please have a timetable so that local police forces and PCCs can know when they can get their funding?

[Brandon Lewis]

l am as keen as the right hon. Gentleman clearly is to see the new funding formula review work completed so that we can get into place a fair and transparent formula, but it is important that we do this correctly and work with the sector. I thank everybody across the sector, including PCCs and chief constables from whom I have had feedback individually and in the wider groups, and whom I meet regularly. They are very happy with the process we are following and the timescale we are working to. I do not intend to rush anything; I want to make sure that we get this right.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

Northamptonshire police are leading the way in combining the delivery of their frontline services together with the local fire brigade. Will the Minister ensure that forces that are undertaking such radical new initiatives to improve local efficiency are rewarded through the new funding formula?

[Brandon Lewis]

My hon. Friend highlights a really important point. Following the Policing and Crime Bill, emergency services will have the opportunity—in fact, a duty—to collaborate. Bringing together police and fire services provides huge opportunities for rewards in terms of savings by working together more collaboratively to deliver for the frontline. He is right that Northamptonshire has been a leading light in this over the past few years.

[Joanna Cherry (Edinburgh South West) (SNP)]

The Scottish Police Authority is the only territorial police authority in the United Kingdom that is unable to recover the VAT it pays. That has cost the Scottish public purse £75 million since 2013, and it has consequences for investment and resourcing. The First Minister and the Finance Secretary raised that with the Chancellor earlier this month. What discussions has the Minister had with the Chancellor about this very important issue?

[Brandon Lewis]

In terms of the work we are doing around police funding, I have regular conversations with the Chief Secretary and the Treasury more generally. I am happy to feed back to the hon. and learned Lady more detail on this issue once we have had our next round of conversations.

[Lyn Brown (West Ham) (Lab)]

Whichever way you cut it, the cake is just too small. More than 20,000 police officers have been cut since 2010, and now we know from the Office for National Statistics that crime is twice as high as the Government say. When will the Minister recognise that the combination of high crime and low police numbers leaves the public at risk?

[Brandon Lewis]

I would respectfully say to the hon. Lady, who I know would want to be giving a very clear and transparent set of figures, that what she has said is not accurate at all. The reality is that the ONS has, for the very first time, included cyber-crime and fraud in its figures. It has recorded those figures for the first time, so it is not true to say that the figures have doubled. I am just sad that Labour, when in government, never gave these kinds of figures and had that kind of thing done, which is the right thing to do. I would also congratulate people for recording more crime more generally—[Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. The hon. Member for West Ham (Lyn Brown) does not have to provide us with a passable imitation of Bruce Forsyth. There is no requirement for that. She has asked her question with her usual pugnacity, and should now await the reply.

[Brandon Lewis]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. People can look for themselves at those ONS figures and see the reality. It is also clear, and I am proud of the fact, that I am part of a Government who have overseen a fall in overall crime since 2010.

[Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con)]

The resort area of Cleethorpes has suffered from a spate of vandalism and antisocial behaviour in recent weeks. Will the Minister assure me that adequate resources will be provided to Humberside police and other forces to deal with that sort of antisocial behaviour?

[Brandon Lewis]

My hon. Friend raises an important point about making sure that there is local accountability through the police and crime commissioners and that they look at where the crime is in their area and where they want to focus their resources, working with excellent chief constables around the country. Of course, we also have the fair funding formula, and agreement on its principles across the sector will contribute towards making it even fairer in the future.

[Julie Elliott (Sunderland Central) (Lab)]

3. What discussions she has had with Cabinet colleagues on when to commence the second part of the Leveson inquiry.

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[Paula Sherriff (Dewsbury) (Lab)]

7. What assessment she has made of trends in fire and rescue response times.

[The Minister for Policing and the Fire Service (Brandon Lewis)]

We published the latest statistics on average response times to fires in England on 19 January, and they show that response times continue to increase gradually. There were reductions in some areas, such as house fires and commercial buildings fires. Fortunately, because of the good work done by the fire and rescue service, fires and fire-related fatalities have been on a downward trend for a number of years, reaching historically low levels recently.

[Paula Sherriff]

I thank the Minister for his response, but continued cuts are having a profound impact on firefighter and public safety. Response times have increased, there are unsafe numbers of staff on appliances and those appliances are having to travel further afield, which means that they are reaching more serious fires. Does the Minister agree that these cuts have gone far too far?

[Brandon Lewis]

The hon. Lady mentioned house fires. There has been a reduction in the response times to fires in homes and, indeed, in buildings more generally. In terms of the finance issue that she raised, there has been an increase of 154% in fire service reserves over the last few years. In the fire service in her constituency, the reserve has increased from just over £7 million to some £29 million, all of which is money that can be used to find those efficiencies and provide those frontline services.

[Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD)]

Fire-related deaths have gone up by 15% in England and 14% in Scotland over the last year. That is clearly unacceptable, and it must surely send a signal that the cuts have gone too far. Will the Minister look at the funding and at reorganisations, which are taking fire crews further away from the areas that they need to service?

[Brandon Lewis]

As I said in response to the previous question, the response to house fires and building fires has improved in the last year. It is important that we all bear in mind that any death as a result of fire is unacceptable. We all want there to be no deaths whatsoever, which is why the work done by fire authorities, and the health and safety work in our homes and on products over the years, which has improved safety, is important. We must always stay vigilant, which is why people should have, and test, smoke alarms. I say to all fire authorities that they must be sure to find those efficiency savings, so that they can make sure that the money is in the frontline to deliver for people every day.

[Carolyn Harris (Swansea East) (Lab)]

According to the Home Office’s own figures published last Thursday, deaths from house fires are up by 18% on previous years and response times are slower. Fire crews are being deprived of resources and fire service jobs are being lost. Will the Minister now accept that the current round of cuts is putting the public at risk and demoralising hard-working, dedicated fire officers?

[Brandon Lewis]

As I said earlier, we need to be very clear about the actual figures. The reality is that there has been a 52% reduction in the total number of reported fires over the last few years. Fire-related fatalities are down 22%, while response times to house fires and building fires are also slightly down and improved. We need to be vigilant on this, but we also need to be clear about the facts.

[Michelle Donelan (Chippenham) (Con)]

8. What steps the Government and UK law enforcement agencies are taking to tackle online child sexual exploitation domestically and internationally.

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[Amanda Milling (Cannock Chase) (Con)]

12. What progress her Department has made on enabling closer working between the police and fire services.

[The Minister for Policing and the Fire Service (Brandon Lewis)]

The Policing and Crime Bill, which has now completed its Lords stages, introduces a new duty to collaborate between the emergency services and enables police and crime commissioners to take on the governance of fire and rescue services. Thanks to my hon. Friend’s excellent efforts, it will also allow police and crime commissioners to become police, fire and crime commissioners. My officials continue to work with key stakeholder groups, and I know that a number of PCCs are looking at this model.

[Amanda Milling]

I thank the Minister for his response and the fact that we will be changing the name of police and crime commissioners. Where there is a strong case for police and crime commissioners to take responsibility for the fire and rescue service, such as in Staffordshire, what will be the process and timeframe for implementing this very important change?

[Brandon Lewis]

I know that the police and crime commissioner for Staffordshire is keen to move forward with this. Following Royal Assent, it will be for a police and crime commissioner to put forward a business case outlining a proposal. If it has local agreement, as I hope it will, it can move forward; if it does not, the proposal will be assessed by an independent group under a process to be agreed with the Local Government Association to make sure it is clear and transparent. I hope that by the end of this year we will see the first areas coming forward with police, fire and crime commissioners.

[Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)]

In Staffordshire, Matthew Ellis, the police and crime commissioner, has identified £10 million of savings if only the two can co-operate, as I am sure will be the case—and, incidentally, welcomed by firefighters throughout Staffordshire, as I am sure is the case in other parts of the UK. What does my right hon. Friend think the timetable will be for such mergers?

[Brandon Lewis]

My hon. Friend makes a good point and highlights the considerable efficiency savings that could be found through collaboration and which could allow extra money to go back into the frontline for both police and fire. On the timeframe, it will be down to the speed with which the police and crime commissioner can present a business case. If there is local agreement, I would hope to see the first police, fire and crime commissioners coming forward a matter of months after Royal Assent.

[Mike Freer (Finchley and Golders Green) (Con)]

13. What steps the Government are taking to ensure that people subjected to forced marriage are encouraged to report that crime to the police.

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[Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con)]

15. Whether she is taking steps to ensure that widows of police officers are not financially disadvantaged by remarrying.

[The Minister for Policing and the Fire Service (Brandon Lewis)]

In January 2016, this Government changed legislation to the benefit of widows, widowers and civil partners of police officers in England and Wales who have died on duty. As a result, those survivors who qualified for a survivor pension will now continue to receive their survivors’ benefits for life, regardless of remarriage.

[Richard Graham]

I welcome the changes made after the police widows campaign, which I supported, but of course they apply only to widows who remarry or cohabit after April 2015, whereas elsewhere in the UK, police widows’ pensions have been reinstated regardless of the date of their remarriage. Does my right hon. Friend agree that police widows should be treated the same, regardless of where police officers served in the United Kingdom? Will he agree to meet me and other colleagues to discuss this further?

[Brandon Lewis]

I know that my hon. Friend has campaigned hard on this issue, and I would be happy to meet him and others to discuss it. He will be aware that the clear position taken by successive Governments is that changes should not apply retrospectively. As I say, I would be happy to meet my hon. Friend and colleagues to discuss the issue further.

[Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con)]

16. How many foreign students from (a) EU and (b) non-EU countries were included as part of the net migration figures in the last 12 months for which figures are available.

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[Edward Argar (Charnwood) (Con)]

T2. Although the current police funding formula has not been fully applied to Leicestershire police, meaning a loss of £5.6 million annually even under that unfair funding formula, Chief Constable Simon Cole and his excellent team of officers have continued to drive down crime locally, but can my right hon. Friend reassure me, and them, that they and Leicestershire will secure a fair funding deal very soon?

[The Minister for Policing and the Fire Service (Brandon Lewis)]

My hon. Friend has made a good point about the excellent work that is being done by Chief Constable Simon Cole and his team in Leicestershire. We are working to ensure that we achieve a fair, transparent review funding formula, and that all the chief constables and the police and crime commissioners feed into it. I assure my hon. Friend that we will deliver that work as quickly as we can.

[John Mann (Bassetlaw) (Lab)]

T6. Waffle, Mr Speaker—waffle is all that we get in answer to questions about dealing with hate crime on Facebook and Twitter and on the internet. If Germany can fine these companies half a million pounds every time they fail to take down hate speech posts within 24 hours, why can we not also take practical action to hold them to account for their failure to deal with hate speech?

[Antoinette Sandbach (Eddisbury) (Con)]

T3. Cheshire constabulary is currently rolling out Operation Shield, which allows people to mark their valuables with a unique DNA liquid to prove their ownership of stolen items in the event of their recovery. What is the Department doing to support similar crime-fighting initiatives?

[Brandon Lewis]

My hon. Friend has highlighted a very good example of the use of modern technology to fight crime. I congratulate Cheshire police on their forward-thinking work. We are supporting such work through the police transformation fund when innovative ideas come from the police themselves to ensure that crime-fighting is efficient as well as effective in the future.

[Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)]

T8. Off- road bikers are vandalising the mountains above Blaenau Gwent. These troublemakers churn up the land, worry animals and intimidate local people.

[Nick Smith]

Them too, sometimes.

Off-road bikers often go where the police cannot. Will the Home Office look into the possibility of resources, agreement and licensing to enable drones to be used to help us to tackle the problem?

[Brandon Lewis]

I recognise the challenges involved in dealing with those who use bridle paths and footpaths inappropriately and ruin them for the majority of other people. The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right, and both he and the police deserve credit for wanting to crack down on such practices. The use of drones is another good example of modern technology. Police forces and fire brigades are sharing them, and I would encourage the hon. Gentleman’s local police force to consider doing the same. It might be possible to make a bid through the police transformation fund.

[Nigel Mills (Amber Valley) (Con)]

T4. In the light of recent terrorist threats across the globe, will my hon. Friend the Minister update the House on what steps the Government are taking to ensure that we are not vulnerable to similar attacks?

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[Derek Thomas (St Ives) (Con)]

T5. We in this place have referred before now to the good work of the police officers, men and women, and police community support officers in the St Ives constituency. It is only right that they receive their fair share of the money in the policing budget. What measures is the Department taking to ensure that Devon and Cornwall police receive a fair funding settlement?

[Brandon Lewis]

I thank my hon. Friend for his question, and it was useful to meet him and colleagues last week. I also want to thank his police and crime commissioner, as well as his chief constable, for feeding into the work we are doing to ensure that the new police funding formula is fair and transparent and has input from forces right across this country.

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

Violence against doctors, nurses, paramedics and other health workers has been on the rise in England and Wales over the last few years. Scotland has a specific criminal offence for such violence; is it not time that we had the same in England and Wales?

[Brandon Lewis]

The hon. Gentleman raises an important point, and it links in very closely with the work we are doing around making sure that offences against police officers are dealt with in the strongest possible terms. The punishments are there, but we must make sure that the Sentencing Council has these things working correctly, and we are working with colleagues at the Ministry of Justice to look at this issue at the moment.

[Rebecca Pow (Taunton Deane) (Con)]

T7. I was pleased recently to attend the “little litter pickers” celebration organised by the innovative Halcon One Team in Taunton Deane. The litter pickers are just one aspect of this commendable One Team community partnership, bringing together the police, social workers, teachers and local residents to tackle serious deprivation, with real results in tackling crime and antisocial behaviour. Does the Minister agree that the Halcon One Team can act as a model across the country, and will she join me in commending all the team’s hard work, especially that of Sergeant Andy Murphy?

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[John Woodcock (Barrow and Furness) (Lab/Co-op)]

Is the Minister for Policing and the Fire Service aware of the stark warning that was given to his predecessor by the chief constable of Cumbria, Jerry Graham, about the failure of the previous funding formula to take into account

“the cost premium for the sparsity, rurality and geographical isolation of Cumbria”?

Will the Minister meet all Cumbria’s MPs to discuss this important issue before his new proposals come out?

[Brandon Lewis]

I am very aware of the changes and, despite the encouragement of some of the hon. Gentleman’s colleagues, I think it is important that we do this work methodically rather than rushing into it. I have been liaising with Cumbria’s chief constable, and I will be talking to him and the police and crime commissioner. Indeed, I am happy to take input from any source to ensure that we have a clear and transparent process.

[Several hon. Members rose—]