Financial Services and Markets Bill

Baroness Hayman Excerpts

2nd reading
Tuesday 10th January 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interest as co-chair of Peers for the Planet. It is a pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth; I absolutely agree with his comments and those of other noble Lords as to the importance of taking action during the passage of this Bill in terms of the parliamentary accountability gap that currently exists.

At COP 26 in Glasgow, the then Chancellor—now the Prime Minister—pledged to make the UK

“the world’s first net-zero aligned financial centre.”

That pledge reflected both the necessity and opportunity for this country to embrace green growth. The potential benefits of the UK being a global centre for financial flows, which will power the economy of the future, are huge. Embracing innovation and private investment to scale up new technologies can bring sustainable jobs and growth, far from being a barrier to growth, as the noble Lord, Lord Frost, suggested.

According to analysis by McKinsey, the supply of goods and services to enable the global net-zero transition could be worth £l trillion to UK businesses by 2030. However, the UK financial services industry will not be able to fulfil the Prime Minister’s pledge unless it has both the right regulatory framework to support it so to do and the policy certainty and long-term trajectory that give business the confidence to invest. As the helpful briefing for this debate from Aviva makes clear,

“a booming UK green finance sector requires a transparent and trusted market that combats greenwashing, has clear standardised metrics, and levels the playing field to reward rather than penalise early action.”

I fear that, as currently drafted, this Bill is a missed opportunity. For example, consideration of nature appears to be entirely absent from the Bill, and with it the chance for our financial sector to scale up the nascent and fast-growing nature-based solutions market. While we delay, other countries are making leaps ahead in green finance. Both France and Germany have given their regulators statutory objectives linked to climate change and sustainability.

I know that the Minister spoke in her opening speech about the inclusion of a climate change regulatory principle but, as others have said, this is just one of seven regulatory principles that sit beneath the regulator’s main strategic and operational objectives and is much weaker than if the Bill had contained a clear climate objective. I am sure that the issues as to the hierarchy of priorities and the trade-offs between the objectives, the secondary objective and the principles contained in this Bill—the noble Lord, Lord Bridges, mentioned these—are matters to which the Committee will give great attention during the Bill’s passage.

I fear that the Bill also misses the opportunity to progress previously announced policy steps to align our financial services sector with net zero, notably the commitment to require all UK-regulated financial institutions and publicly listed companies to publish net-zero transition plans by 2023. This Bill is the obvious place to legislate for that policy yet it is silent. Progress has also stalled on taking forward the UK sustainability disclosure requirements and the UK taxonomy. An updated green finance strategy has been promised but not yet published. All this delay risks sending a signal to our financial sector and internationally that the Government are unsure about whether they are truly committed to being a leader in green finance.

Yet businesses are calling for clear, consistent policy and long-term financing frameworks. The CBI has said that

“the big policy lever that’s missing is around green growth”

and that businesses are “confused and disappointed” that the Government appear to be going backwards on their green growth agenda. We need strong leadership, a sense of direction and clarity from the Government. With so much to be gained from creating the right regulatory framework to allow our financial sector to capitalise on the green transition and the many investment and growth opportunities, I am really worried that we will not move at pace to become the world’s first net- zero financial centre. If we do not move at pace and decisively, others will beat us to it; all the competitiveness objectives in the world will not change that.

Financial Services and Markets Bill

Baroness Hayman Excerpts

Committee stage
Monday 30th January 2023 Grand Committee

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, as this is my first contribution in Committee, I remind the Committee of my interests as set out in the register, particularly Peers for the Planet. I also have a son who is employed by Make My Money Matter, an organisation that campaigns in this area.

We have had two powerful speeches in support of this amendment, and I do not need to detain the Committee long in registering my support for it. It comes back to that very basic issue that both noble Baronesses dealt with: transparency. It is only with information that individuals can make meaningful choices about the investment of what is their money. It is tremendously important that we do not fall behind on this and assume that decisions that will be made are nothing to do with the little people who actually put the money into the companies which make the decisions. As I understand it, other jurisdictions have found ways through technology and standard reporting procedures to allow this to happen as a matter of course. I would be interested to hear from the Minister why we cannot do that in this country too.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, I will briefly express support for this amendment, which has already been so powerfully argued for. I would have signed it had I caught up with the legislative deluge.

I want to make two additional points. First, the Pensions Regulator’s most recent survey of defined contribution schemes found that more than 80% did not allocate any time or resources to managing climate risk. It would be interesting if we were to see the way in which fund managers were voting, not only to have that recorded, but I would assume that they would have to have some kind of thought behind it to explain what was recorded. The transparency might force some more thinking to happen, which would clearly be a good idea.

I also want to ask a question of the proposers of this amendment because I was slightly puzzled by the information on request element of the amendment. The noble Baroness, Lady Sheehan, noted that US regulators forced this to be published openly as a matter of course. It seems that that would be the logical thing, that this should be available not only to clients but to anyone who might like to make an assessment of how companies and asset fund managers are behaving and why they are behaving in that way. Perhaps in my classic Green position, I wonder whether we should not go further, and, rather than saying “to clients on request”, say that this should be freely published and available to all.

--- Later in debate ---

Moved by

[Baroness Hayman]

44: Clause 24, page 38, line 19, at end insert “and the climate and nature objective (see section 1EC).”

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, this group of amendments aims to ensure that the future regulatory framework of the financial services sector supports the Government’s net-zero and nature commitments. I have Amendments 44, 53, 56, 62 and 68 in this group, and I thank the noble Lords, Lord Vaux of Harrowden and Lord Randall of Uxbridge, and the noble Baroness, Lady Northover—I wish her a speedy recovery—for supporting and adding their names to the amendments.

Before I turn to the rationale for these amendments, I will say a word about another amendment to which I have added my name: Amendment 69, in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Sheehan. She will of course explain her amendment when she speaks later in the debate, but it might seem slightly perverse to have added my name to it, since it is amending the regulatory principle that I will argue against in principle in a moment. However, at Second Reading, I and many others drew attention to the fact that the Bill as written and presented to the House is totally silent on issues of nature, nature-based solutions and investments in natural solutions. This is a ridiculous and wrong omission, and it was in some way recognised in Committee in another place, when Andrew Griffith, the Economic Secretary to the Treasury, recognised that

“we cannot achieve our climate goals without acknowledging the vital role of nature. That should concern us all, as it is part of the carbon ecosystem.”

He promised to consider the issue further

“to see whether there is anything … that can be done.”—[Official Report, Commons, Financial Services and Markets Bill Committee, 27/10/22; col. 162.]

So I hope that, in the spirit of a probing amendment, the Minister will be able to respond to the general principle of the inclusion of nature objectives in the Bill.

But, as I say, I want to go beyond a statutory principle to a statutory objective—a new secondary statutory objective that would sit alongside the proposed competitiveness and growth objectives. My amendments mirror the same drafting structure. The intention is that a climate and nature objective would require the regulators actively to facilitate or contribute to net zero and nature’s recovery through their activities and bring financial services regulation in line with government policy. The amendment uses existing drafting and recognised targets. On the climate, the objective attaches the targets under Section 1 of the Climate Change Act 2008, and, on nature, it follows the language included in the Natural Environment and Rural Communities Act 2006 and suggests supporting the targets in Part 1 of the Environment Act 2021 as a starting point. As I say, the Government’s proposed regulatory principle on net zero would be removed to avoid duplication.

It was clear from the Minister’s comments at Second Reading that the Government intend the new regulatory principle to embed net zero within the regulator’s functions, but I am afraid this step remains insufficiently robust to support their commitment to become

“the world’s first Net Zero-aligned Financial Centre”

or to invest, as was stated in their response to the Treasury-commissioned Dasgupta review,

“in nature and a nature-positive economy.”

--- Later in debate ---

I hope that the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, will feel able to withdraw her amendment, and that other noble Lords will not press theirs.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, I am extremely grateful to everyone in Committee who has taken part in this debate. I expected it to be an argument—that did indeed take place and filled much of the Minister’s response—about the hierarchy of objectives and missions that the regulators should employ in meeting an agreed agenda for our financial services to be part of growth, to be central and, indeed, to be world leading. I have no problem with world leading. World beating always worried me, but world leading I am absolutely happy with. I am happy with the aspirations of the now Prime Minister, then Chancellor, in this field.

However, the debate went beyond whether the regulatory principle was enough to do what the Minister agrees should be done and it questioned—the noble Baroness, Lady Lawlor, did this—whether it should be a smaller objective in the first place and whether it was the right strategy to pursue. It was very useful having that debate opened up. In response, the noble Lord, Lord Vaux, spoke eloquently on this issue, but there are three things that I want to say to refute, if you like, the arguments put forward.

One is that this is not a little-Englander debate. It is absolutely a global debate; it is absolutely because other countries are investing in these areas and want their financial centres to be the lead that we are talking about finding the right regulatory framework to allow us to go forward.

I also bridled a little at the suggestion that what we have put forward in these amendments is vague. I have to say that, in terms of definition, my amendments, referring to the targets under Section 1 of the Climate Change Act 2008 and in Part 1 of the Environment Act 2021, are very specific and, might I even say, slightly more specific than “growth” and “competitiveness”—and slightly better defined.

The last thing I will say perhaps mirrors something that the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, said. The other criticism was that in these amendments we were somehow chasing a picture of an ideal world. Would it were so. We put forward the case for taking strong action on climate and nature because we have a vision not of an ideal world but of a world that is far from ideal and highly dangerous economically and in all other ways for us, our children and grandchildren.

I think we will return to this issue on Report but, for now, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment 44 withdrawn.

Financial Services and Markets Bill

Baroness Hayman Excerpts

Committee stage
Wednesday 1st March 2023 Grand Committee

[Baroness Boycott (CB)]

My Lords, I shall speak to Amendment 199 tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Randall, who unfortunately is absent today, which is supported by the noble Baroness, Lady Sheehan, the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, and me.

This amendment would simply extend the same due diligence system that has already been introduced for large companies under Schedule 17 to the Environment Act, which looks at products in terms of deforestation, to UK financial institutions. The purpose of such due diligence is to prevent British banks knowingly financing deals that lead to deforestation worldwide. Sir Ian Cheshire, the former chair of Barclays and head of the Global Resource Initiative task force, has already written to the Minister saying that our regulations should now ensure that financial institutions do not directly or indirectly fund or support deforestation linked to forest commodities.

Between 90% and 99% of all deforestation is driven by agriculture, chiefly to produce soy, beef and palm oil—the big commodities—but on the whole that clearance is completely unnecessary to produce the food we eat. New research from the Stockholm Environment Institute shows that a vast proportion of all deforestation is speculative and does not in fact lead to any agricultural production. Sadly, corruption, fraud and labour abuses are the norm in the global agriculture sector. At least 69% of forest clearance for agricultural purposes between 2013 and 2019 is considered to have been illegal. Our existing regulations are practically an open invitation to banks to launder the proceeds and profits of forest crime.

Evidence from the charity Global Witness shows that, in the five-year period between the Paris COP and our own Glasgow COP, British banks and financiers made deals worth $16.6 billion, with just 20 agribusinesses implicated in these transactions. WWF calculates that the UK financial sector faces up to £200 billion in risk exposure to Brazilian beef and soy supply chains and Indonesian palm oil supply chains alone. This clearly exposes the UK economy as a whole and individual financial institutions to significant material risk. Globally, agribusinesses are expected to lose an average of 7% in value by 2030 due to unpriced nature and climate risk, with some companies losing up to 26% of their value.

Bringing an end to deforestation is one of our most imminent climate targets. At COP 27, the UN high-level working group on net zero made clear that this means an end to the financing of all deforestation. We do not need to do it; we should not do it any more. Fortunately for the Government and the Minister, Schedule 17 to the Environment Act has laid the necessary foundations by reducing the import market in the UK for commodities grown on illegally deforested land from places such as the Amazon. Under that Act, businesses will need to conduct due diligence to ensure that they have no deforestation anywhere in their supply chains. All this amendment would do is ensure that the already available information travels one step further to the banks and finance institutions.

I know that the Minister will reply that this is all in hand because of something called the Taskforce on Nature-related Financial Disclosure, TNFD, but this is yet another voluntary reporting scheme designed to help companies identify how biodiversity loss threatens their profitability. We must wake up to the fact that just identifying it is not the same as reducing it. Indeed, a lack of data is not at all the problem. Satellite technology enables real-time monitoring, and images can be mapped against suppliers’ farms. We have already accepted that such due diligence is made possible by passing the Environment Act.

If charities such as Global Witness can do it, so can the banks. The TNFD is shaping up to be the

“next frontier in corporate greenwashing”

unless we pass an amendment such as this one. Voluntary schemes have already tried and failed to deliver on similar objectives. The Soft Commodities Compact signed by British banks failed, and so has the New York Declaration on Forests. Financial institutions signed up to the Glasgow Financial Alliance for Net Zero, spearheaded by our Government, but they have barely decreased their deforestation investments since signing up to that scheme at COP 26. Many members have in fact increased their exposure to notorious deforesters in that time.

We cannot waste any more time with more voluntary initiatives if we are to meet the 2025 deadline for ending deforestation. We have a plan and a blueprint, with mandatory due diligence at the core. Without this reform to our financial regulations, there may well be no forests left to save and the British public will be left holding the bill for this unnecessary race to the bottom.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, with this group we return to the issues of how this legislation can support the ambition of the now Prime Minister—then Chancellor—to be the leading net-zero financial centre.

In this group I have Amendments 201 and 235 to 237, and I am grateful for the support of the noble Baronesses, Lady Sheehan, Lady Wheatcroft, Lady Northover, Lady Drake and Lady Altmann, on those amendments. It is not a monstrous regiment; I think it is a rather impressive regiment of women who will put forward amendments in this group. We have already heard from the noble Baroness, Lady Worthington; I very much support her words and the argument just made by the noble Baroness, Lady Boycott.

Investment in deforestation will undermine financial firms’ transition plans and sustainability impact reporting. It needs to be underpinned by real action. Bringing mandatory due diligence into law is supported by the Government’s own expert body, the GRI task force, and the UN Secretary-General at COP 27. It is not sufficient that UK firms stop importing deforestation risk commodities, as the Environment Act requires; UK financial firms must stop funding them too. This amendment would achieve that.

I have also added my name to Amendment 233, in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Wheatcroft, on sustainability disclosure requirements. I will leave it to her to explain the amendment in detail but, fundamentally, there is little dispute over the importance of sustainable disclosure requirements, but equally little progress being made, and the legal basis for those requirements is unsure. Those issues would be addressed by this amendment, and I support it.

I turn to my Amendments 201 and 237, which relate to fiduciary duties and would require the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions and the FCA to publish guidance—to which occupational pension schemes and FCA-regulated firms must have regard—considering the long-term consequences of decisions and the impacts of their investments on society, climate and nature. This reflects duties applicable to companies under the Companies Act, but those provisions apply to financial services companies only in relation to their shareholders, not their clients, and they do not apply to pension funds at all. I very much welcome the work to date of the DWP and FCA on fiduciary duty. However, research by the Principles for Responsible Investment, a UN-founded body with 3,000 signatories and $100 trillion in assets, found that investor understanding of their duties was discouraging them from pursuing—or even considering—positive sustainability impacts, and recommended further guidance from the UK Government and regulators. Similarly, a study by the UK Sustainable Investment and Finance Association reported that

“We continue to see a common lack of understanding within financial services on the extent to which ESG”—


Environmental Social and Governance—

“factors form part of investors’ fiduciary duties. This area needs urgent clarification for finance to reach net-zero.”

UKSIF also recommended that guidance that both risks and impacts should be considered a core component of fiduciary duties.

My amendments do not overturn existing fiduciary responsibility. They would merely result in guidance on how impacts and long-term matters are considered when acting in investors’ financial interests. They are not prescriptive about the content of the guidance, which would not be legally binding. The Government have made much of their desire for more productive investment by the financial sector, but confusion about fiduciary duty has been raised as a key barrier. This amendment could help to end that confusion.

Amendment 235 on green taxonomy relates to commitments dating back to 2019 and reiterated in October 2021 to at least match the ambition of the key objectives in the EU’s sustainable finance action plans. They follow through on the commitments made for the Treasury to publish the taxonomy and for the FCA and government departments to make the necessary changes to implement it.

I must say that the Government’s approach to taxonomy is somewhat confusing. The Green Technical Advisory Group—or GTAG—was established in June 2021 and delivered advice to the Treasury in October 2022. The Minister reconfirmed a commitment to the taxonomy in the House of Lords in November. However, this was followed in December 2022 by a Statement seeming to back away from producing a green taxonomy, describing it as a “complex, technical exercise”. Although the noble Baroness, Lady Penn, stated in Committee on 30 January:

“The Government are committed to implementing a green taxonomy as part of their sustainable finance agenda”—[Official Report, 30/1/23; col. GC 170.],


I fear that what the Government have in mind is a voluntary model, which would be fragmented and incomplete, rather than robust and comprehensive. I should be grateful for clarity and reassurance from the Minister.

The delay is frustrating for the many parts of the industry that have directly and indirectly assisted the development of a green taxonomy. More than a dozen other jurisdictions have brought forward their own green taxonomies, seemingly without insuperable difficulties. The Government need to restate a clear timeline for implementation. The Skidmore review agreed, and proposed a “transition taxonomy”. This amendment makes provision for that.

Financial Services and Markets Bill

Baroness Hayman Excerpts

Report stage
Tuesday 6th June 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Wheatcroft (CB)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for her introduction of Amendment 4 and her willingness to engage with Peers on the topic of sustainable disclosure requirements. However, while a government amendment on this important topic is welcome, what we have heard is yet more delay. A cynic might judge the amendment to have a whiff of green- washing about it. It does not do enough and does not do what is required. The amendment seeks to give regulators and Ministers the necessary powers to bring forward rules and regulations on SDRs in fulfilment of commitments that they made in 2019, 2021 and again in the green finance strategy in March this year.

Amendment 114 is an effort to be helpful because, despite making commitments for five years, the Government still do not have the powers to make sustainable disclosure requirements happen. Amendment 4 does not confer those powers. The noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie of Downpatrick, submitted a Parliamentary Question on this issue on 14 November last year, and the Government’s response was that:

“The FCA has extensive powers to … impose some of the Sustainability Disclosure Requirements”.


The noble Baroness also asked about the powers available to the Department for Work and Pensions, which would legislate for sustainability reporting by occupational pension schemes. An extensive search of the powers held by the DWP in relation to public reporting and sustainable reporting has found none that is suitable.

Amendment 4 gives the Treasury the power to issue a policy statement on SDRs and to require the regulators to report against it, but it is not an obligation—the Treasury “may” prepare an SDR policy statement. As the Minister admitted in her response last year to the noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie, the FCA does not have the powers to actually implement SDRs. It seems that we are looking at a Whitehall paper trail that keeps everyone occupied but with no meaningful legislation.

I am in favour of easing unnecessary burdens on business. However, repeatedly indicating—as they have for five years—that the Government are planning to legislate but not actually doing it creates a burden in itself for business. Should it invest in data, in systems or in strategy? After so many reassurances but so little progress, and more reassurances today, no one really seems to know the answer.

I noted with interest that the Minister’s letter to Peers ahead of tabling this amendment said that

“the Financial Conduct Authority is taking forward Sustainable Disclosure Requirements (including consumer facing requirements) under its existing objectives and rulemaking powers which are sufficiently broad for the purpose”.

I would like to understand the misalignment between that statement and the earlier Answer to the Question from the noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie. Is it because there has been a change of heart and the Treasury has discovered that the powers exist after all? I would be grateful if the Minister could clarify that. Or has the Treasury limited its proposals from its original ones so, while it did not have the powers for the original proposal, it does for the new, limited proposals? Or—and it would be deeply disappointing if this were the case—is the reference in the Minister’s letter to the FCA to “taking forward” SDRs intended to mean that the FCA would be merely progressing the work but not actually implementing it? Again, I would be grateful for clarification. The FCA consultation on SDRs closed on 25 January. We are promised a policy statement in the third quarter but, without statutory powers, that would be pointless.

I hope the Minister will be able to answer those questions and now, if we are able to accept the amendment, I hope she will be able to go a little further. While the amendment sets the right tone, it does not do what is needed. It embraces the idea of SDRs but does not make them a reality. The same governmental reluctance to take real action lies behind my Amendment 7, concerning vote reporting. If investors are to make serious decisions on ensuring that their savings are put to work in a sustainable way, it is essential that they be able to see how those who manage the money choose to vote on corporate issues. That is a crucial part of being an engaged investor. The FCA itself acknowledges that. Earlier this year, its vote reporting group stated:

“Improving transparency of how asset managers vote on behalf of their clients will mean investors can better hold them to account on their stewardship”.


We would all want that, but currently it is not possible for investors always to learn how their investments are being voted. Yes, there is now an FCA requirement under the shareholder rights directive that fund managers and insurers produce an annual report on how they have voted, but it is only that they must comply or explain; and even then, the requirement is only that they should report on significant votes. The FCA gives no guidelines as to what should be deemed significant, and what one investor feels is significant may not concur with what a fund manager deems so.

The fund manager is required to report only at group level, so, in terms of the individual funds in which investors and pension funds might be invested, how their votes have been voted in the individual funds cannot be seen; it is only possible to see across the group, which is effectively meaningless for many people who want to find out how their money is being used. A report is required to be made only annually—a hopeless timescale in an industry that moves as fast as this one. Nor is there any standard form for vote reporting. It is not a lot to ask in a digital age. The SEC in the US certainly demands it.

For all those reasons, the current situation does not serve investors as well as it should. Amendment 7 would require FCA-regulated investment managers and insurers to provide clients and those investing with them with voting information that they requested in a standard format and within 30 days. In Committee the amendment on this topic included pension funds in the requirement to report but, mindful of the DWP review of pension fund reporting, the current amendment is much narrower and does not prejudge the review. However, in the meantime it should help pension funds to monitor the way their investments are being voted. It is true that the FCA vote reporting group has yet to reach conclusions, but there is no reason to wait for that. Parliament has the power to put demands on the FCA, and this is a case where it should.

The Government accept the need for good stewardship by investors, and transparency on voting aids that. It is important, indeed crucial, for good corporate governance that decisions taken on behalf of investors should be clear and easily ascertainable. Making voting records available speedily in a machine-readable way would be a service to investors that, thanks to digital innovation, should be easy and relatively cheap to implement. Why would the Government resist that? I beg to move.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interest as chair of Peers for the Planet and apologise for the fact that I may need to speak a little longer than I normally would on Report. This is a very diverse group of amendments on different subjects, some of which are quite technical, but I can be brief in relation to Amendments 4, 7 and 114, which the noble Baroness, Lady Wheatcroft, has just so ably described. I appreciate that the Minister has done what she said she would on SDRs and tried to make some progress, but I fear there is still a legislative gap there—a gap that we could, on this Bill, usefully fill for her. I support what the noble Baroness has said and look forward to the debate on Amendment 91, on forest risk commodities, to which I equally give my support.

Financial Services and Markets Bill

Baroness Hayman Excerpts

Report stage
Thursday 8th June 2023 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Hayman]

15: Clause 25, page 39, leave out lines 11 to 13 and insert—
“(c) the need to contribute towards achieving compliance with sections 1 (the target for 2050) and 4(1)(b) (net UK carbon account) of the Climate Change Act 2008, and the conservation and enhancement of the natural environment, including compliance with relevant targets approved by Parliament, the Scottish Parliament, Senedd Cymru, and the Northern Ireland Assembly.”Member’s explanatory statement
This amendment adds nature to the new regulatory principle on net zero emissions.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, when we debated this on Tuesday evening I was greatly encouraged by the support from all sides of the House for adding nature, alongside net zero, to the regulatory principles in the Bill. We also had support externally, particularly from Professor Dasgupta himself. I am afraid that I did not find the Minister’s arguments compelling, and therefore I would like to test the opinion of the House.

Financial Services and Markets Bill

Baroness Hayman Excerpts

Report stage
Tuesday 13th June 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Naseby (Con)]

I declare an interest as trustee of the Parliamentary Contributory Pension Fund. As a trustee, but also on my own behalf, I have no concern about pension funds being incentivised. We are there, as trustees, to look after our pensions in the future. Incentives are one thing, but, as a trustee, I am not sure I want to be dictated to and told I have to consider high-growth funds in particular.

When I look at proposals from our fund managers, I look at the return expected over a period of time. Obviously, we are long-term investors, and it may be that a firm has the potential to be one that produces excellent returns. I do not think, on the whole, that pension funds are there to help smaller and newly created firms grow. On the other hand, I can say quite honestly that proposals are in front of us in relation to infrastructure which have considerable merit. I suspect that positive decisions will follow in due course. I ask my noble friend and the Opposition to bear that in mind.

I will also comment on the proposed new subsection (3) on consultation. In addition to the parties listed, I would like to see the trade associations of, for instance, investment trusts, the associations of fund managers and a number of other organisations in the financial world which group together. If we are going to help our country in terms of growth, consultation should be with those at the coalface and those varying funds, et cetera.

I have reservations. I understand the driving force behind the amendment, but it does need some refinement before it is considered as a possible way forward.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, I support this amendment, which fits very well alongside the discussions we had on the fiduciary duty of pension fund trustees. I will not push those amendments to a vote, but the work being done, as the Minister described, on having a clear and close look at the fiduciary duty for pension fund trustees would complement this amendment. I do not think it is threatening in any way to pension fund trustees; it is very carefully framed and asks the Treasury to publish a review on incentivisation. It is perfectly possible, in the words of the noble Lord, Lord Naseby, to fine-tune it after the review—that is the purpose of the consultation.

This amendment is worth while. The noble Baroness, Lady Chapman, referred to the UK Infrastructure Bank and its recognition of nature-based projects and types of infrastructure as assets that could be invested in. I was involved in that amendment, on which the Minister, in her usual helpful style, listened and took action. I hope that she will similarly recognise the virtues of this proposed new clause and I support the amendment.

[Baroness Bowles of Berkhamsted (LD)]

My Lords, I added my name to this amendment and suggested the inclusion of the Pension Protection Fund, partly because there is already quite a big conversation around how we will incentivise investment and be prepared to take a bit more risk, because the UK seems to have become very risk-averse. There has been regulatory encouragement, if you like, for pension funds to be somewhat risk-averse; I am not sure it is actually risk- averse to end up in a situation where you invest everything in sovereign bonds and have a systemic risk but, setting that conversation aside, gilts have always been regarded as a very steady investment. It has perhaps been forgotten how to invest for reward.

The fiduciary duty is important and we need to look at it, because there are implications if you suggest in any way to trustees what they ought to do. Of course, that does not mean that you have to take zero risk as a trustee—you must understand the risk and reward dynamic—but, if we move through legislative steps, we would have to add to the list of consultees a whole load of lawyers to help sort out how we deal with the common-law fiduciary duty. Overall, this is a good amendment, making the Government part of this conversation and drawing in more consultation so that more people can input with common purpose, instead of there being lots of consultations all over the place.

Of course, there is work being done by parliamentary committees and I hope notice will be taken of those, and maybe care taken, looking at proposed new subsection (4)(b) and

“adjusting the terms of reference for DB Local Government Pension Schemes (LGPS) funds to consider regional development as an investment factor”.

To some extent they can do that already, especially in the amounts that are retained where the local authorities are investing directly rather than through the pooled funds—and I have to declare an interest here in potentially listing a fund.

Financial Services and Markets Bill

Baroness Hayman Excerpts

3rd reading
Monday 19th June 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Kramer (LD)]

My Lords, I join in the thanks to the Minister, who has been very generous with her time, as has the Bill team, and who provided us with explanations and listened to our issues and concerns. I also give particular thanks to my noble friends Lord Sharkey and Lady Bowles on my Benches, who bring extraordinary expertise and analysis to all these issues. They covered for me while I was recovering from surgery, and I very much appreciate their willingness to pick up and carry that burden.

I join in the good words about the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe. He has been an absolute stalwart on this entire portfolio. He is phenomenal in dealing with statutory instruments especially—an area that most of us avoid. I will miss the opportunity to be with him on these Benches, as it were, when these issues come forward again. He might have made a very good leader of the Labour Party, I should say. I also thank the noble Baroness, Lady Chapman, and the noble Lord, Lord Livermore, for the final stages and their close working. The Cross Benches have been quite exceptional on this Bill, as, frankly, have some on the Back Benches of the Conservative Party. It has been an excellent example of cross-party working in the interests of better governance.

A striking feature of the Bill has been that common concern, particularly focused on the issues of parliamentary scrutiny and the accountability of regulators to Parliament. There have been modest steps to improve the Bill on those issues, but there is a great deal more to be done. I remain concerned, as do my Benches, about the risk being injected back into the financial services sector, but again, that is business for another day. We hope that the Bill will go through unamended in the other House. The improvements that come particularly from Peers for the Planet and from those involved in financial inclusion have been important. Again, my thanks to the attendants and the others who have supported us so well throughout this entire process.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

I join in the gratitude expressed to the Minister, who has been her usual courteous and committed self in discussing the considerable amendments that were needed to this Bill, bringing through something far better than we had at the start of the process. The noble Lord, Lord Vaux, and the noble Baronesses, Lady Wheatcroft and Lady Boycott, were all highly involved in the process. Like others, I believe we made some important changes in terms of forest risk and making certain that nature as well as climate are involved in this Bill. My only plea, the Minister will not be surprised to hear, is that I hope very much that when the Bill is considered in the other place, those amendments hold and we do not have to have the argument all over again in this House.

Bill passed and returned to the Commons with amendments.

Financial Services and Markets Bill

Baroness Hayman Excerpts

Consideration of Commons amendments
Tuesday 27th June 2023 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Secretary, HM Treasury (Baroness Penn) (Con)]

My Lords, I beg to move Motion A and, with the leave of the House, will also speak to Motions B and C. I am grateful to all noble Lords for their considered scrutiny of the remaining issues in front of us today and throughout the Bill’s passage.

I will speak first to Lords Amendments 7 and 36, and I thank the noble Baronesses, Lady Hayman and Lady Boycott, in particular, for their leadership on these issues during the passage of the Bill.

The UK is a global leader in sustainable finance. The Government’s ambition to support the growth of this important area is demonstrated by the amendment relating to sustainability disclosure requirements made on Report, and the amendments in lieu of Amendments 7 and 36 introduced during Commons consideration.

I turn first to Lords Amendment 7. The regulators have an important part to play in supporting the Government’s ambitions, which was demonstrated by the inclusion of the net-zero regulatory principle at introduction. The Government have reflected carefully on the calls to ensure that the regulatory framework also reflects the Government’s nature targets.

While I welcome the intention behind Amendment 7, the Government cannot accept this amendment because it is too broad and therefore too open to interpretation. We have therefore brought forward Amendments 7A, 7B and 7C in lieu of Amendment 7, which add the relevant and well-defined targets made under the Environment Act 2021 to the new regulatory principle. It is important to recognise that addressing climate change and nature issues is not the regulators’ primary function, which is, broadly, to advance their objectives, including to protect the integrity of the financial markets and the safety and soundness of firms within the financial system and to deliver appropriate protection for consumers. Most of the levers for reaching our net- zero and environmental targets sit outside the regulators’ remit and control.

The amendments in lieu will ensure that, when acting to advance their objectives, the regulators will be required to consider the Government’s commitments to achieve the net-zero emissions target and the environment targets. I assure noble Lords that the amendments do not weaken the requirement for the regulators to consider the Government’s net-zero target. FSMA requires the regulators to act in a way that advances their statutory objectives when carrying out their general functions. When advancing their objectives, the regulators must also have regard to the regulatory principles, which aim to promote good regulatory practice.

It is for the independent regulators to decide how best to meet the requirements placed on them in legislation when discharging their general functions. The drafting of the amendments in lieu makes this clear: the regulators are required to have regard to the regulatory principle only in so far as it is relevant to advancing their objectives. This does not change the effect of the net-zero requirement, but the Government considered that this additional language was needed, alongside expanding the principle, to make this point clear and to ensure consistency. I am confident that the Government’s approach meets the intended effect of Amendment 7, and I hope noble Lords will acknowledge it as a significant step to further support the growth of sustainable finance in the UK.

I turn to Lords Amendment 36 on deforestation-linked financing. As I set out on Report, the Government again support the intention behind this amendment. The policy considerations for tackling the financing of deforestation risk commodities are complex. We are grateful for the work of the Global Resource Initiative and in particular its report on this issue from May 2022. This emphasised the need to take a staged approach and that further exploratory work would be needed to investigate the implementation of a prohibition on the financing of the use of prohibited forest risk commodities.

The Government have therefore brought forward Amendment 36A in lieu of Amendment 36, which commits the Treasury to undertake a review to assess whether the financial regulatory framework is adequate for the purpose of eliminating the financing of illegal deforestation and to consider what changes to the regulatory framework may be appropriate. This will ensure that any intervention is scoped appropriately and that the UK moves in lockstep with our international partners to ensure the effectiveness of any regime in tackling the financing of illegal deforestation.

The Treasury will be required to undertake this review within nine months of the first relevant regulations under Schedule 17 to the Environment Act being made. This will enable the Government to reflect those regulations in the review, which is essential if we are to have a joined-up and effective approach.

As the Government set out in the updated green finance strategy, we will convene a series of round tables this year. These will form the basis of a taskforce to drive forward the work of this important review and support the development of clear conclusions. This will complement the Government’s existing commitment to explore how best the final Taskforce on Nature-related Financial Disclosures—or TNFD—framework should be incorporated into the UK policy and legislative architecture. As the GRI report acknowledged, the developing work of the TNFD is increasingly important, especially as it has now included recommendations relating to deforestation in its draft standards.

Following the review, the Government will consider what further action is appropriate to progress the goal of eliminating the financing of illegal deforestation. The Bill and the existing provisions in FSMA provide the Treasury with extensive powers, including through the regulated activities order or the designated activities regime, to bring new activities into the scope of regulation if needed.

Finally, I turn to Lords Amendment 10. As the Economic Secretary set out yesterday, and as I set out on Report, the Government cannot accept this amendment. While I acknowledge the intention behind it, I reiterate the point that financial inclusion is a complex societal issue that cannot be solved through financial regulation alone. The Government are committed to the aim of ensuring that people, regardless of their background or income, have access to useful and affordable financial products and services. The Government’s view is that the FCA’s current and ongoing initiatives around financial inclusion demonstrate that it can already effectively support the Government’s leadership on this agenda through its existing operational objectives and regulatory principles.

Parliamentary scrutiny of the introduction of the new secondary growth and competitiveness objectives for the regulators comes after two consultations on the Future Regulatory Framework Review and extensive engagement with industry and other stakeholders. It is not appropriate to amend the regulators’ objectives, which are crucial to the effective regulation of financial services in the UK, at this late stage of the Bill’s passage without due consultation. Furthermore, the FCA’s new consumer duty, which comes into force on 31 July, seeks to set a higher and clearer standard of care that firms owe to their customers, and includes a new principle requiring firms to act to deliver good outcomes for consumers. It is important that the sector is given the opportunity to embed these important new requirements before considering further action of a similar nature.

I ask noble Lords not to insist on Amendments 7, 10 and 36 and to agree with the Commons in their Amendments 7A, 7B, 7C, and 36A in lieu. I beg to move.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interests as set out in the register, and will speak to Amendment 7A. I thank the Minister and her team for the considerable efforts that have been put in, since the Bill left this House, to find a way to respond positively to the issues raised in my original amendment, which was supported from all sides of the House. As the Minister knows, the central issue was that of providing a clear legislative basis for financial regulators to act, not only on our climate change duties, which the Government themselves recognised and included in the original Bill, but in relation to our duties relating to the natural environment.

This issue is seen as important in Parliament but also outside it. The inclusion of nature was supported both by Professor Sir Partha Dasgupta and, in a statement last week, by a group of eight leading financial firms. I am extremely pleased that the Government decided not to try to completely overturn the amendment but to introduce the amendment we have before us now, the basis of which the Minister has just explained. It recognises that the importance of climate should go alongside the importance of nature, which was not there originally.