Social Housing (Regulation) Bill [HL]

Baroness Hayman of Ullock Excerpts

Report stage
Tuesday 18th October 2022 Lords Chamber

I hope that the Minister will explain today why the Government reject this approach or, better still, support Amendment 14.

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

My Lords, we believe that this is a very important Bill and broadly, it has our support. Today, we are discussing areas where we think it could be improved. I thank the Minister and her officials for the attention they have provided to our amendments and for the discussions we have had; they have been extremely helpful and we very much appreciate that.

My Amendment 3 would ensure that the panel is chaired by a tenant, and my Amendment 31 would ensure that the Secretary of State introduces “tenant satisfaction measures”. I have tabled these amendments because we believe it is vital that tenants are at the centre of any changes being brought forward through this Bill, that they are consistently listened to and that their concerns taken seriously and acted upon when that needs to happen.

The Government have already committed to introducing a set of tenant satisfaction measures. We know that all stock-holding local authorities will need to be adequately funded by the Government to deliver this new statutory requirement to collect housing-related data, in line with the new burdens doctrine. I thank the Local Government Association for its support for my Amendment 31, on tenant satisfaction. Can the Minister and the Government look at these areas again as we move through the Bill?

The noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, opened our debate, and we support her Amendment 2. As the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Chelmsford said, talking about the continued importance of the removal of cladding and remediation around fire safety continues to keep that accountability on the face of everything that we are doing. We must not forget why we are here with the Bill in the first place.

I am pleased that the Government support Amendment 1 from the noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, but, as other noble Lords have said, the energy demand and efficiency matters raised by various amendments in Committee and on Report are critical, and we believe that the Government need to give further consideration to them. Like the noble Lord, Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth, I do not really understand the Government’s reluctance to act on this issue. We know that it can make a real difference not just to climate change and reducing energy use but to the cost of living crisis that we are facing. Given the recent warnings from the national grid about the prospect of power cuts this winter, the Government need to take this more seriously than they have.

I draw particular attention to Amendment 14, in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman. As we have heard, it requires the Secretary of State to publish the social housing energy demand strategy, which she introduced extremely thoroughly. She went into some detail about how this can be achieved, why we need it and the importance of this amendment, and other noble Lords have stressed that they strongly agree with the noble Baroness. So again I urge the Minister to take this away and think about whether it is something the Government could do more on.

Like other noble Lords, we are pleased that the Minister has been able to accept Amendment 1 in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, but it simply is not sufficient. I completely agreed with the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, when she said that we need a long-term strategy, a detailed plan and—as the noble Lord, Lord Bourne, also said—leadership. That is what we need to drive this forward.

I will not go into any more detail—we discussed this a lot in Committee and we have heard from noble Lords today—but, if the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, wishes to test the opinion of the House on this matter, she will have our full support.

[Lord Young of Cookham (Con)]

My Lords, I apologise for missing my cue and interrupting the wind-ups. I will speak briefly to Amendments 2 and 14. On Amendment 2, veterans from the Building Safety Bill will recall that much of the debate focused on the impact on social housing of the costs of remediating the defects. This amendment would give the regulator a role in ensuring that this remediation was concluded satisfactorily.

Some of the information asked for in the noble Baroness’s amendment is already available. Figures from the building safety programme published last week showed that all 180 high-rise social housing buildings, bar one, have had the dangerous materials removed. Remediation has started on the final building, but the cladding has yet to be removed. The Government initially expected remediation to be completed by June 2020, so, after a slow start, it seems that real progress has been made, which is welcome. But 37 privately owned blocks still have Grenfell-style cladding five years after the fire.

Turning to funding, can my noble friend confirm that the social sector ACM cladding remediation fund has enough resources to compensate the social housing sector for the costs incurred and that there will be no impact on its development programme or rents as a result of the remediation? It appears that 17 of its buildings will not receive any money from the fund; is there a reason for this? Is it because the remediation was funded by the developers? Are the Government planning to recoup any of the costs to the fund from those responsible? In that context, can my noble friend update the House on the ongoing discussions with the private sector to get it to accept its responsibility for this debacle, with its tragic consequences?

The noble Baroness’s amendment, however, goes further than the removal of unsafe cladding and refers to

“the remediation of other fire safety defects in social housing.”

Will my noble friend say what progress has been made on that front, and in particular how much that will cost and how it will be funded without impacting on rents or development? Presumably the work was undertaken at the same time as the cladding removal, so this information is available.

While the amendment has provided a useful peg for a debate, I am not sure we need it in the Bill. The removal of cladding and fire safety defects are clearly needed to make a building safe—covered in Clause 1 —and the regulator already produces an annual report and accounts, which could include the information in the amendment, but it would be helpful to have some information about funding and the impact on the social housing sector.

Finally, turning to Amendment 14, I, along with others, am a planetary Peer—although flying at a much lower orbit than that of the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman. As the noble Lord, Lord Foster, said, the amendment requires targets and the targets are important, but they require funding. Ideally, the funding to pay for these energy conservation measures should not be at the cost to the new build programme—which brings me to the social housing decarbonisation fund, mentioned by the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, which was set up to improve the energy performance of social homes in England, including local authority stock.

I know that that fund is the responsibility of BEIS and not of my noble friend’s department, but it is directly relevant to the debate on energy efficiency in social housing. There was a manifesto commitment in 2019 of £3.8 billion to this fund over a 10-year period. Will my noble friend confirm that that is still the case and that the sum has not been eroded in the meantime? What has been the take-up and evaluation of that programme and what assessment has been made of the number of homes that the sum could improve the energy conservation of? If my noble friend cannot answer now, perhaps she will reply in writing.

Finally, I understand that the amendment may be unacceptable to my noble friend, but I wonder whether she can show a little bit of ankle in her reply and indicate that this is not the Government’s final word on this and that as the Bill proceeds downstream in another place there might be the opportunity for further discussion and improvement.

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I wish to be completely clear that the risk of reclassification is not hypothetical. The ONS deems that government control over housing associations is significantly closer to the threshold for reclassification than for other comparable sectors. Indeed, the sector was reclassified to the public sector in 2015 and was reclassified again only once legislative steps were taken to remove government controls. The last thing any of us wants is for this legislation to be derailed by classification issues. I beg to move.

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

My Lords, I shall introduce my Amendment 23. I thank the Minister for her introduction of her amendments, for listening to the debate on this in Committee and for bringing the amendments forward today. The government amendments really address competence and skills and, to my mind, the industry should already have competence and skills as part of its training and how it operates. The question I ask myself is: is this sufficient or is professionalisation needed?

We know that the Government recognised the need for a professionalised social housing sector in the White Paper back in 2020, but we all need to consider the fact that the Grenfell Tower fire back in 2017 is a stark example of exactly what can happen when we have an underregulated, unprofessional management in social housing. This is why Grenfell United and others believe that professional qualifications in part of the sector is so important. We believe there should be clear recognition of this and that the Government should be driving towards a properly trained professional sector that has ethics and values underpinning it. We know that Grenfell United has made it very clear that the bereaved and the survivors of the fire want this to be their legacy.

We know that poorly managed and maintained social housing can cause serious harm to renters’ health and well-being, yet there are no requirements to be properly qualified or to undergo professional development. As a result, too many tenants are not given a good service or treated with the care and respect they need and deserve. This is not to undermine the many good social housing operators, but unfortunately not everybody is as good. How do we professionalise the sector? This is what my amendment seeks to achieve. We believe that professional development should be mandatory for senior managers working in social housing. Other social professions have this requirement and rules for registration; they have continuous professional development as part of the way they operate while someone is a manager within their sector.

We believe that qualifications and training should aim to provide housing management staff with the skills and knowledge needed to do the job—and to do the job well—as well as instilling the right values to underpin it. If over time you have a better qualified, more professional sector, you will increase the perception of housing management as a valued profession, one that will attract dedicated individuals to a rewarding, if challenging, career.

A concern has been expressed that my amendment will mean that everybody working in social housing will have to be qualified, and that this will be too onerous for the sector to cope with. That is not what my amendment seeks to do. It is deliberately non-prescriptive, to allow for the flexibility needed in a sector where you have diverse businesses, from small almshouses to very large housing businesses. The Minister talked about the importance of flexibility and, if she looks at proposed new subsection (1), she will see that it states that:

“Regulations may provide that a person may not engage in the management of social housing … unless he or she … has appropriate professional qualifications … or satisfies specified requirements”.


Proposed new subsection (3) states:

“A requirement of regulations … may … relate to … the possession of a specified qualification or experience”


or

“participation in or completion of a specified programme or course of training, or … compliance with a specified condition”.

I am trying not to be prescriptive or make life difficult for housing associations and social housing provider but to provide a certainty that managers know what they are doing. It is as simple as that.

We think this should apply at first only to senior management because we believe that having senior staff with the appropriate skills and qualifications will ensure that the teams underneath them, those working in offices and other junior staff, would then be professionally run and deliver a quality service for residents. We believe this would not create barriers to housing associations and councils finding enough staff because the amendment requires regulations to define what types of work require qualifications. Flexibility in the amendment will lead to important change but without being overprescriptive and onerous for housing associations.

We know that housing management is no more complex than other professions that have legal requirements for training and development: for example, social work, healthcare, education—so why not include social housing? The secondary legislation regulations that guide mandatory qualifications in those fields are extensive and there are many different routes to being qualified, with many different expectations depending on the service being delivered. Why not have the same for social housing?

I turn now to some of the Minister’s arguments. Will this make housing associations into public bodies? I understand what she said about this, but I do not believe we have seen concrete evidence to suggest that my amendment on professional qualifications would bring the Government’s role in housing association business over the threshold. She referred to the review, but we have not seen that, so will this make housing association businesses technically public bodies? I am yet to be convinced of this and would like to see more evidence. We know that the economic standards in social housing have been proactively and extensively regulated for some time. Where is the tipping point? Why are the Government so concerned about this?

Finally, I come back to Grenfell. Grenfell United and Shelter, which has supported it throughout the process and the different legislation that has come through, are simply not satisfied with this. They have made it crystal clear—I have a note from them here—that it does not meet their reasonable expectations in this area. They believe that:

“Clear requirements are needed to bring social housing management on a par with other socially important professions, properly safeguard the wellbeing of tenants, and attract dedicated individuals to a meaningful, challenging career.”


It is appropriate to leave those last words to Grenfell United. I urge the Minister to revisit this at some point. However, because I think this is such an important issue for tenants and the survivors and bereaved of Grenfell Tower, I will seriously consider testing the opinion of the House on this matter.

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[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

It will not engage, as far as I understand. His Majesty’s Treasury would deal with this and it has advised that we cannot do that, as that is not what the ONS does. The ONS publishes its assessments and its decision cannot be challenged. It will review its decision only in very limited stated circumstances, including when new legislation, policy proposals or machinery of government changes impact the operations of an organisation or, in this case, a sector.

I go back to the point that, in 2015, following further legislation on the social housing sector that had tipped it over, the ONS changed the classification and we had to introduce new legislation again. We do not want to be in that position—that would not be what anybody would want—and the time involved in doing all that would be extensive.

My noble friend Lord Young asked whether the review of professionalisation would feed through to the development of standard. Yes, it will: the review will inform the Secretary of State’s direction to the regulator about the context and objectives for the standard, so it will be used in that way.

My noble friend Lady Sanderson asked whether the Secretary of State could direct the regulator to include qualifications in the standard. Again, directing the regulator to require qualifications would also risk reclassification. However, in setting standards for the competence of their staff, landlords would have to provide assurance that their staff had the requisite capabilities, and I suggest that ensuring that their staff have appropriate qualifications would be a key way of achieving that aim.

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

My Lords, having looked at the classification process on the ONS website, I see that it states:

“HM Treasury may … submit policy proposals for classification advice from the Economic Statistics Classification Committee … either on its own behalf if it is the policy lead, or on behalf of another department”.


It looks to me like the issue could have been put to the ONS for advice ahead of the position that we find ourselves in.

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

We have asked for an indication, but the ONS will give only an indication. As far as I understand it, the indication is that this could tip over into a reclassification.

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

Could we perhaps have the official response to the Treasury, if it has put forward a request?

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

I am more than happy to provide that.

I think that I have answered all the questions. As I have said once already and as I said in Committee—although it perhaps bears repeating—the Government believe in professionalising the social housing sector. As was mentioned, we sent out an all-Peers briefing on Friday setting out the full rationale for what we are doing, why we are doing it and why we are unable to accept the amendment in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman of Ullock. The qualifications, training and development needed to professionalise social housing cannot be a one-size-fits-all; we must protect landlords’ ability to determine the most appropriate qualifications and training for their staff. The regulator has deep sector expertise and a strong track record of regulating the sector for financial liability, on which it would be able to draw, to ensure that landlords raise professional standards. The introduction of tough sanctions for landlords failing to comply with the new standard will ensure that consistently high standards are achieved across the sector.

To push back against what the noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, said, I say that this is not light touch, given the enforcement powers and unlimited fines and the fact that the regulator will be looking at tenant satisfaction levels in great detail. If tenants are unsatisfied with their housing provider, they will say so, and at that point the regulator can move in—and the regulator has teeth to ensure the enforcement of specially trained staff, and has unlimited fines if the provider does not comply. There are tough sanctions for failing to comply with the new standards, and I believe that the provisions will ensure that consistently high standards are achieved across the sector.

Finally, the risk of reclassification of the social housing sector is substantial. The proposal to mandate qualifications for staff risks adding £90 billion to the public balance sheet. Reclassification could limit landlords’ ability to invest in new homes and in improving the quality of existing stock and service provision. This would clearly disadvantage tenants and undermine our objective of increasing professionalism in the sector. It is likely that we would want to introduce deregulatory measures to address that. It would weaken the regulatory framework that the Bill creates, and we cannot allow that to happen.

The Government are not trying to hide on this issue. It simply comes down to how we accomplish the outcomes for which we are all looking. I believe that the Government’s approach is the right one. I hope that noble Lords have been persuaded by my arguments.

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[Baroness Pinnock (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for putting right what was clearly an oversight in the Bill, whereby landlords were given 48-hours’ notice before entering a property while tenants got only 24 hours.

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

My Lords, I reiterate what the noble Baroness has said. It is good that what was said in Committee was listened to. We support the amendments and thank the Minister.

Amendment 5 agreed.

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[Baroness Pinnock (LD)]

My Lords, my noble friend Lady Thornhill is not well and is unable to be here today. She put her name to the amendment to which the noble Lord, Lord Best, has just spoken, so I am speaking on her behalf as much as anything.

These amendments are really important, because at the heart of the debate is the safety of social housing tenants. It is a similar debate to the one we have just had about whether there should be more professional qualifications for housing managers. Like that one, it is based on the social housing White Paper, in which the Government have suggested introducing Ofsted-style inspections for social landlords. This is, in essence, what the amendment in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Best, proposes. In mandating inspections but leaving their frequency to the Secretary of State, and allowing them to exempt certain providers, Amendment 17 is robust but workable.

There was widespread support across the House for the same amendment in Committee, with organisations such as the National Housing Federation and the Chartered Institute of Housing welcoming stronger and more proactive regulation of the consumer standards. As the CIH stated in its briefing, it is vital that the regulator has the resources to undertake these inspections. Ultimately, these inspections will help not only to avoid the catastrophic lapses in safety that led to the Grenfell tragedy—among others, but obviously Grenfell is by far the worst—but to strengthen the ability of the social housing sector to provide warm, secure and affordable housing.

The Government have tabled Amendments 22 and 38, and the Minister has again shown that she is listening and seeking to respond to what was said in Committee. But in the opinion of these Benches, the government amendments do not appear as robust as the one tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Best. Inspections are not mandated; rather, the plan must outline whether they “should” take place and at what frequency. The regulator

“must take appropriate steps to implement the plan.”

Perhaps the Minister can outline what the steps could be. What are these “appropriate steps”? What teeth does the regulator have to implement inspections? Will the Government review these provisions to determine whether they have been successful or whether further steps will need to be taken to make sure that inspections are happening? What timeframe will we see for the plan? When will it be published and how often should it be reviewed? There are lots of questions, and lots of answers are needed if we are to be able to judge whether the proposals from the Government are sufficiently robust.

Given that tenants, providers and the Government all seem to agree on the need for more proactive regulation, we on these Benches hope that the government amendments will be all that is necessary for inspections to be frequent and effective. We just hope that we will not look back and wish we had used this opportunity to further strengthen the law on this issue, as the amendment from the noble Lord, Lord Best, would allow us to do.

I want to end the debate in this House on this very important Bill by recognising, as others have done, the powerful commitment that Grenfell United has made to making the Government and the rest of us understand the importance of social housing being of the highest quality and safe and secure, with managers who know what they are doing and with a regulator who has teeth. None of us ever again wants to be party to a terrible tragedy like that which occurred in June 2017.

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

My Lords, I shall be brief because much has been said that needs to be said, and we had quite a debate on this in Committee. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Best, for the amendments he put down in Committee and again on Report, and for all the hard work and time he has put into moving this issue forward so that we have reached a stage where the Government have recognised that more needed to be done in this area. I thank the Minister for her amendments and for recognising that inspection is a critical part of making progress on standards in social housing.

We are now reaching the end of the debate at Report, so I would just like to say a couple of things. The noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, asked a number of questions; I will not add to them but will wait to hear the Minister’s response. I thank again the Minister and her officials, as I did at the beginning of today’s debate, for her personal commitment and time on this Bill, and for her efforts where she has been able to make progress—for example, on this issue and in some other areas. It is appreciated by all of us who want this Bill to be as good as it can possibly be.

The noble Lord, Lord Best, ended in the way that we ought to end this debate, which is to recognise why we are here today. It is because of those who suffered so much during the Grenfell tragedy not giving up and keeping going and pushing us politicians and others on what needed to change in the social housing sector. This Bill is a credit to them. On that note, I thank everybody for the debate and for their time today.

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Best, for his Amendment 17 relating to inspections and for the time he has given me and my officials on this issue; it was important. He knows so much about this sector, and it was really very useful to spend time with him, as it was useful to spend time with many other noble Lords on a number of issues here. I thank them so much for their time.

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Moved by

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock]

23: After Clause 24, insert the following new Clause—
“Persons engaged in the management of social housing to have relevant professional qualificationsAfter section 217 of the Housing and Regeneration Act 2008 (accreditation), insert—“217A Professional qualifications and other requirements(1) Regulations may provide that a person may not engage in the management of social housing or in specified work in relation to the provision of social housing unless he or she—(a) has appropriate professional qualifications, or(b) satisfies specified requirements.(2) Regulations specifying work for the purpose of subsection (1) may make provision by reference to—(a) one or more specified activities, or(b) the circumstances in which activities are carried out. (3) A requirement of regulations under this section may, in particular, relate to—(a) the possession of a specified qualification or experience of a specified kind,(b) participation in or completion of a specified programme or course of training, or(c) compliance with a specified condition.(4) Regulations may make provision for any of the following matters (among others)—(a) the establishment and continuance of a regulatory body,(b) keeping a register of social housing practitioners,(c) education and training before and after qualification,(d) standards of conduct and performance,(e) discipline and fitness to practise,(f) removal or suspension from registration or the imposition of conditions on registration,(g) investigation and enforcement by or on behalf of the regulatory body, and appeals.””Member's explanatory statement
This amendment seeks to create a power for the Secretary of State to require managers of social housing to have appropriate qualifications and expertise.

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

My Lords, I have listened very carefully to the Minister’s response to my amendment. However, my strong feeling—which is supported, as I said, by Grenfell United—is that professionalism is very important in the industry. I do not believe that the Government’s amendments go far enough, so I would like to test the opinion of the House.