Tobacco and Vapes Bill

Baroness Grey-Thompson Excerpts

2nd reading
Wednesday 23rd April 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Grey-Thompson (CB)]

My Lords, I support many aspects of the Bill. I strongly dislike both smoking and vaping. I grew up in a house where both my parents smoked. My mother used it for hunger suppression and weight management. My father smoked just because people did. They both stopped later in life as the detriment to health was more widely realised.

I am delighted that my noble friend Lord Stevens of Birmingham raised Cancer Research UK. Smoking is the leading cause of health inequalities in the UK and accounts for half the difference in life expectancy between the richest and poorest in society. Some would argue that vaping is okay and not as harmful as smoking. The UK Vaping Industry Association briefing stated that vapes continue to drive smoking to historic lows. The association states that Public Health England has shown that vaping is

“at least 95% less harmful than smoking”

and that the NHS Better Health guidelines affirm that while vaping is not without risk, it is

“substantially less harmful than smoking”.

It might be better, slightly, but it is hardly good for you, as early smoking ads would suggest.

As an athlete, I never directly smoked. When I was competing, I spent most of my time avoiding anywhere that anybody smoked. One of the reasons I really dislike vaping is that I do not seem to be able to walk around anywhere without being vaped on or over. Vaping allows for nicotine to be more prevalent in the air, allowing for inhalation by third parties. I can try to be as healthy as possible—I can eat well and I can exercise—but ultimately I am inhaling vape smoke. I am pleased that a couple of noble Lords have raised cannabis, because I seem to spend quite a lot of my life swerving along the street trying to avoid that as well. I am no longer an athlete, but it is still on the banned list for athletes. The fact that it is so available should be cause for concern.

I realise that I am sounding old and grumpy. Quite a lot of things irritate me, but one of the things that irritate me quite a lot is people who pretend that they are not vaping while trying to hide it. People vape in places where they would never normally smoke, such as on buses. I am certain that I have smelt vape smoke in this very building. Being British, all I do is tut loudly. I am worried that vaping is seen as an alternative to smoking.

I accept that the initial reason for vapes and e-cigarettes was to provide a safer alternative, but the evidence has shown that the introduction of vapes has led to the gradual increase of vaping among children and minors. There are loads of statistics out there—72% of 11 to 17 year-olds report that they are exposed to some form of vape promotion. The main source has been in shops, at 55%, while online it is 29%. In March and April 2023, the proportion of children experimenting with vaping had grown 50% year on year, from one in 13 to one in nine. Young people who had used an e-cigarette were seven times more likely to become smokers one year later. The reasons that young people give are anxiety, stress and depression, but nicotine addiction just links these symptoms. We end up being in a Catch-22 situation.

Beyond my personal dislike, we have to look at environmental issues around smoking and vaping. Cigarette butts are currently made of cellulose acetate, which is synthetic plastic. We spent a lot of time in this building banning straws. Each cigarette butt contains around two straws’ worth of plastic. Globally, 6 trillion cigarettes are smoked each year, with 4.5 trillion butts being littered. Even in the UK, around 3.9 million cigarette butts are littered.

Wildlife and Countryside Link reported more than a million disposable vapes going into incineration or landfill every week. When I go to lots of sporting events, I see disposable vapes and vapes littered everywhere; the only thing that horrifies me more is the number of nitrous oxide cartridges that I see.

I am supportive of this Bill. Committee will be very interesting. I know we are going to get on to some contentious issues around smoking around hospitals. I would ban it from all entrances, but I realise that is possibly not possible. The noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, talked about the impact of smoking on her family, and it has probably impacted every single person in this building. I support any Bill that supports a smoke and vape-free future.

Tobacco and Vapes Bill

Baroness Grey-Thompson Excerpts

Committee stage
Monday 27th October 2025 Grand Committee

[Baroness in Waiting/Government Whip (Baroness Blake of Leeds) (Lab)]

My Lords, we are running out of time. If we want to finish the group, we will have to finish by 8 pm—otherwise, we will have to break midway through. It is up to noble Lords whether they want to keep their comments to a minimum so that we can finish this group.

[Baroness Grey-Thompson (CB)]

My Lords, I shall speak very briefly to Amendment 193, to which my name is added. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Young of Cookham, for explaining its aim so well. I also support Amendment 4 from the noble Lord, Lord Bethell, and declare an interest as president of the LGA and chair of Sport Wales.

With my background in sport, I know that there has been a lot of nudge behaviour in stopping smoking. Some really good work has been done in Wales on smoke-free sport, and the Football Association of Wales has done work on banning smoking around youth games. However, this does not go far enough. I must apologise, as I am working on this and the Infrastructure and Planning Bill, and I have just come out of a debate on how to ensure that we have good physical activity and improve the health of the nation. The adverse impact of smoking on the health of the nation is partly why I am speaking on this Bill.

I am slightly surprised by some of the briefings that I have received, which seem to be more content with vaping than I expected. I am constantly told that it is much better than smoking, but it is hardly healthy. I have never smoked or vaped, so I probably do not come at it with the fervour of a reformed smoker, but I believe that a great deal of harm has been done by smoking and vaping. I shall discuss some of that in later groups. While smoking cessation services have gone some way, they do not go far enough. This amendment is part of a concerted effort to move forward. The way to do it is through a new clause that very clearly lays out the road map so that we can move towards a smoke-free United Kingdom.

Tobacco and Vapes Bill

Baroness Grey-Thompson Excerpts

Committee stage
Thursday 30th October 2025 Grand Committee

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

My Lords, I speak to the group of amendments in my name and that of my noble friend Lord Howe, supported by the noble Baroness, Lady Grey-Thompson, to whom I am grateful. Together, these amendments seek to prohibit the manufacture, sale and supply of high-strength oral nicotine products—those containing more than 20 milligrams of nicotine per portion—and empower HMRC officers to seize and detain such products before they reach consumers.

The reason for these probing amendments can be summarised by a BBC article in July which told the story of Finn, a 17 year-old who started using nicotine pouches after getting bored of vaping. What began as curiosity quickly became addiction. He described how he and his friends would use pouches so strong—some claiming to contain 150 milligrams of nicotine each—that they would vomit or become physically immobilised. At school, he hid them under his lip, until one day he turned “bright green” in class and had to run out of the room. His mouth, he said, was “shredded to bits”.

This is not an isolated case. Recent data suggests that use among 16 to 24 year-olds has risen sharply in recent years, a deeply worrying trend. These pouches come in bright tins, flavoured with mango ice or bubble gum, and are marketed as clean, safe, and discreet. In reality, some of these products are many times stronger than a cigarette and far more addictive. This is a form of nicotine ingestion which is socially acceptable and often unnoticeable. Children can and do consume these products, sometimes even in class.

The point is not that nicotine pouches have no legitimate role at all. For adult smokers trying to quit, properly regulated products can have a place as part of the harm reduction strategy and a pathway off smoking. Although the Minister knows that my classical, liberal views mean that I am generally against banning things I do not like, what we have at present is the sale of nicotine products that are so strong that dentists have reported that they can burn gums, cause lesions and even expose the roots of teeth.

For these reasons, more reputable manufacturers already limit their products to under 20 milligrams per pouch. They also want a market that encourages and rewards responsible production, and which acts against rogue operators flooding the market with dangerously high-strength pouches. These probing amendments suggest a possible, sensible and enforceable ceiling that would align with good industry practice and give clarity to both regulators and retailers.

However, prohibiting the manufacture and sale of these products is only part of the solution. Unless enforcement agencies have the statutory power to act, those prohibitions risk becoming little more than words on a page. That is why our amendment to Clause 88 proposes that HMRC officers should be explicitly empowered to seize and detain high-strength nicotine pouches, preventing them entering the market in the first place. I know that the Government have indicated that they recognise the need for action in this area; this amendment probes the Government on how they intend to address concerns over these high-nicotine products.

Do the Government think that we should rely on downstream enforcement after these products have already reached young people? That is my first question for the Minister. My second question is: do the Government agree with the sentiment of the amendment on the need to address this issue at the border, where these goods are entering the country in large quantities, especially by giving HMRC the clear legal authority to do so? Thirdly, do the Government see the need for immediate action, or will they require a series of future consultations? Finally—I know that I am asking a lot of questions—do the Government believe that it is more effective to have a firm and immediate statutory assurance in this Bill, in order both to allow these products to be controlled and to give enforcement agencies the clarity that they need to act?

These amendments can be seen an opportunity to protect people, in particular young people, before they become addicted instead of punishing them afterwards. It is about ensuring that, if these products are so dangerous, they should not be able simply to be bought over the counter or ordered online. I recognise that all tobacco products may to some extent be classified as dangerous—or, at the very least, as not good for you— but the products at which these probing amendments are aimed are particularly dangerous. I am, therefore, interested in the Minister’s answers; in the Government’s position on high-nicotine pouches; and in how the Government intend to address the concerns here, as exemplified by Finn’s story. I beg to move.

[Baroness Grey-Thompson (CB)]

My Lords, I shall speak on Amendments 13 to 15. I apologise for not adding my name to Amendments 139 and 140, but I strongly support them.

I added my name to this group of amendments because I did not know an awful lot about oral nicotine. I was talking to a group of university students about my strong dislike of vaping. They introduced me to the subject and told me—they were at several different universities—that many university students use vapes almost continuously for lots of different reasons.

A lot of my concerns are around the impact on young people. Growing up, I remember the TV adverts that showed all the damage that smoking would do to your lungs, with images such as the pouring out of a glass of tar, but I am not sure that young people necessarily understand the impact that vaping will have on them. I am concerned about the high levels of nicotine in these products, but I am also concerned about the potential for vaping to lead to addiction and cardiovascular issues such as increased blood pressure.

I have read the same report as the noble Lord, Lord Kamall. It mentions young people talking about using vapes until they vomit. The report talks about a young man, Finn, using vapes and says that they immobilise the individual—especially when they use two or three in one go—which is not at all the intended consequence of them. Finn goes on to say:

“You feel this burning sensation against your gums, and then you get the hit”.


As the noble Lord, Lord Kamall, said, these products have impacts on oral health, including gum disease and gum recession. Vaping is also linked to an increased risk of certain cancers, such as oral, pancreatic and oesophageal cancers. It can also have, potentially, a negative effect on adolescent brain development.

My problem with these products is that they are so easy to hide. The fact that children in school are able to use these products should be cause for concern, because young people are talking about sweating, salivating and struggling to concentrate. These products that should not be anywhere around young people. There is also a lot of discussion about how they can be used as a gateway to vaping or smoking. There is a lot of debate around how vaping and smoking are meant to be helping each other, but I have concerns about that as well.