Oral Answers to Questions

Anna Soubry Excerpts

Wednesday 30th October 2019 Commons Chamber

[Julian Smith]

I will be joining Remembrance Day in Enniskillen in a week or so, and I will be thinking of all the people who have contributed in the way that my hon. Friend refers to.

[Anna Soubry (Broxtowe) (IGC)]

Further to the question from the hon. Member for Belfast East (Gavin Robinson), may I gently say to the Secretary of State—and I apologise for all the grief I have given him over the past few years—that, on this very important matter, when I was the Veterans Minister I had the great honour of visiting Northern Ireland, and I have to say to him that the covenant, which the coalition Government did so much to advance in that time, has just not happened in Northern Ireland, and it is because of sectarian differences? That is not fair, and those in Northern Ireland must have exactly the same rights under the covenant as those in the rest of the United Kingdom.

[Julian Smith]

I thank the right hon. Lady for her question and pay tribute to her for the work she did in that role. I am aware that there is more to do, which is why we have been consulting on how the covenant is being implemented. There are things to improve, and we will make sure that we improve them.

Early Parliamentary General Election Bill

Anna Soubry Excerpts

3rd reading: House of Commons & Committee: 1st sitting: House of Commons
Tuesday 29th October 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

We are in unusual times; there have been many examples to evidence that over the last few months. Very specifically, what I say to the right hon. Lady is that the will of the House determines what happens in these matters, subject to the overriding principle of adherence to a clear rule. The right hon. Lady strongly objects to what has happened, but nothing that has happened today has been in any way disorderly: a Bill has been introduced; there has been a Second Reading; there has been a Committee stage; and there was a business of the House motion, in amended form, accepted by the House. The right hon. Lady has registered her discontent, which I was very happy for her to do, but beyond that the matter cannot be taken further tonight.

[Anna Soubry (Broxtowe) (IGC)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. [Interruption.] I know that it is sometimes uncomfortable to speak truth to power. Mr Speaker, would it be in order to record that, in private, many of us have come to the conclusion that the majority of Back Benchers on both sides do not want a general election? As the right hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Liz Saville Roberts) has said, fear, from whatever quarter it may come, will be an abiding thing that will come out of this Parliament, and history will record that. A lack of courage from too many is also a mark of the end of this Parliament. Would it also be in order to record that I know from the conversations that take place in private—as you understand, Mr Speaker—that it is undoubtedly a fact that the majority of Members of this Parliament support a people’s vote rather than a general election?

[Mr Speaker]

I am grateful to the right hon. Lady, who always speaks her mind, and I respect that. I know, however, that she will accept that that was a case of the right hon. Lady wanting to tell me and the House what she thought, rather than having any particular interest in me telling her what I think. But I will tell her what I think. What I think is that we do not work in this place on the basis of what people may or may not say to each other in private; we work on the basis of the decisions that are made by the House, and the House has made a decision in a perfectly orderly way. She has registered her objection to it, and we will have to leave it there. I hope—I sense that there is an appetite for this—we can now proceed with the business statement.

Early Parliamentary General Election

Anna Soubry Excerpts

Monday 28th October 2019 Commons Chamber

[Jo Swinson]

I have been very clear that I do not believe that the Leader of the Opposition or the Prime Minister are the right people to be in government and leading the country. I am crystal clear about that. In a general election, I will go to the country and make my case that there should be a Liberal Democrat Government. A Liberal Democrat Government would revoke article 50 on day one, and that is the best way to stop Brexit. We need to find a way forward. If it is not through a people’s vote—if there is not the support for that in this Parliament—we need to look at the other way to do that, and right now, that is through a general election.

[Anna Soubry (Broxtowe) (IGC)]

The hon. Lady knows that I was a founding member of People’s Vote and she knows, too, the cost that I and many others have paid for our belief, which, at the time, was certainly not popular or fashionable. She also knows—because of the meetings that she has attended—that there is no doubt that, across the House, there is a majority, at the right moment, for that confirmatory referendum. Does she agree that—[Interruption.] The right hon. Member for Kingston and Surbiton (Sir Edward Davey), who has not attended those meetings, has obviously not been informed. Does the hon. Lady understand that the best way forward is to allow that process to continue, because it is obvious that that moment is coming when there will finally be that majority for a people’s vote, and that she is pre-empting that? Nobody needs to be told—especially not me and others who have been so courageous and brave, and I pay tribute to them—that this is the time not for a general election, but for a people’s vote, and it is within our grasp.

[Jo Swinson]

The right hon. Lady and I have worked together well on the people’s vote campaign, and I pay tribute to her for the courageous decision that she took earlier this year to leave her party and for the work that she has done on this campaign, but I say to her that I dearly wish it were the case that we were at a majority situation for a people’s vote. If we are at that situation then MPs can sign the motion and demonstrate that that is the case.

[Anna Soubry]

I never sign early-day motions.

[Jo Swinson]

Perhaps the right hon. Lady would make an exception for this particular early-day motion.

In the absence of that support being clearly demonstrated, we have to act; we cannot just wait. My fear is either that the Government push ahead with their withdrawal Bill and it is delivered, and Brexit is delivered on the back of Labour votes, or that we end up in January, a couple of weeks away from the deadline of crashing out without a deal, in the same precarious position, but that time the EU says, “I am sorry, but we have extended and extended again and we cannot keep doing so if you do not find a path to resolve this.”

European Union (Withdrawal Agreement) Bill

Anna Soubry Excerpts

2nd reading: House of Commons & Programme motion: House of Commons
Tuesday 22nd October 2019 Commons Chamber

[Ian Blackford]

I am not sure what the relevance of that intervention was at all.

[Anna Soubry (Broxtowe) (IGC)]

Is not one of the most critical points that not only is this a new deal but I can find no part of it that actually meets a single promise made by the leave campaign in the referendum? Not one of its promises has been met by anything in this very important new agreement. It must be right that this place should scrutinise it because not only are people—inadvertently, I am sure—standing up and asserting things that do not appear to be the case, as we have already heard, but, as we all look through this huge, weighty document, which contains new parts, we discover on almost every turn of the page something new that should be scrutinised.

[Ian Blackford]

The right hon. Lady is absolutely correct. The Bill was published only last night. Effective scrutiny takes time. I can see many Government Members who, if this was happening with the boot on the other foot, would be screaming like mad that this House was not being able to express its democratic obligation to look at things carefully.

The transition period will end at the end of 2020. If the Government wish to seek an extension to transition, they have to apply for it by the summer of next year. Does anybody in this House really think that the United Kingdom will be able to conclude a complex trade arrangement with the European Union by the summer of next year, giving us the security of knowing that we do not need that extension? Quite frankly, they are living in a fantasy land if they do. On that basis, I say to Members all around the House, but particularly to Opposition Members who are tempted to vote with the Government this evening: be careful, because you are writing a blank cheque to the Prime Minister and the Vote Leave campaign that runs this Government to drive the United Kingdom out of the European Union on a no-deal basis at the end of next year—and, friends, there is nothing you can do to stop it.

--- Later in debate ---

[Anna Soubry (Broxtowe) (IGC)]

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Basildon and Billericay (Mr Baron). I will not be voting for the Bill this evening, because it is nothing more than a charter for a no-deal Brexit. The safeguards in the withdrawal agreement negotiated by the previous Prime Minister that would have ensured that we would not leave without a deal at the end of the implementation period in 2020 have now been removed. It is quite clear that the so-called backstop for England, Wales and Scotland has gone. The reason why so many Conservative Members who opposed the previous Prime Minister’s deal on all three occasions it came to this House are now so keen to vote for this Bill and this agreement is that it will deliver the hard no-deal Brexit they believe in, and in some cases have done for decades.

The hon. Member for Basildon and Billericay referred to the backstop having been removed, but the reality and truth is that for Northern Ireland the new backstop is an arrangement that will be there in perpetuity. As this House knows, the right hon. Member for East Antrim (Sammy Wilson) and I disagree on many things, but on this issue we are at one. In his speech, he made a number of serious assertions about the impact of not only the Bill but the withdrawal agreement on the Union and, in particular, Northern Ireland, and some Conservative Members sat and shook their heads, querying that. It concerns me that because of this terrible programme motion, there will be nothing to allow any Member, Committee or independent organisation to scrutinise and check whether his assertions are correct or false. Having read this Bill and the protocol twice, I think he is right, and we need to be sure.

[Mr Baron]

The right hon. Lady referred to me, so I thank her for giving way. Some of us were shaking our heads because we disagree with one or two of the factual statements made by the right hon. Member for East Antrim, but we are happy to pursue that conversation afterwards. As somebody who served in the troubles in the 1980s, I know that the Union means a lot to many ex-soldiers on both sides of the House. I can assure the right hon. Lady that we do not take this lightly. If I genuinely believed that this was a threat to the Union, I would not be supporting it.

[Anna Soubry]

The hon. Gentleman should listen to the voices from Northern Ireland—and it is not just the DUP or the hon. Member for North Down (Lady Hermon); it is from across the community. This is a genuine threat, and it is incredible that Members of the Conservative and Unionist party are prepared to vote through this Bill when its attendant protocols will undoubtedly mean that there will be a separate arrangement for Northern Ireland in perpetuity. There is nothing in the Bill that will allow things to change.

I would also ask: how much better is our country since we had this referendum? Are we a happier, gentler people, and are friends, families and communities more united or are we divided now in a way that we have never experienced before? This Bill will do nothing to heal divisions; it will actually increase the divides in our society. That is a concern.

I believe with a passion that not one single promise that was made by the leave campaign has been fulfilled in any way, shape or form. We were promised a deal before we left. We were promised that Northern Ireland would not be treated any differently, and we were promised that it would keep and preserve the United Kingdom. We were made a promise that we would have the same trading relationship that we currently enjoy as a member of the single market and the customs union, and none of those things has been delivered in the Bill or any of the attendant documents.

I agree with the right hon. Member for Tottenham (Mr Lammy). He and I disagree on so many things, but on this we are at one. If this is so good, it should go back to the people. That should not be by way of a general election, which will solve nothing just as the 2017 general election did not solve anything—

[John Mann (Bassetlaw) (Lab)]

It’ll get rid of you!

[Anna Soubry]

This now needs to go back to the British people. And may I just say that I do not actually mind losing my job, but I do care about the jobs of my constituents? I will do the right thing by my constituents, their children and their grandchildren, and by their jobs. That is why this matter must go back for a people’s vote now that we have clarity on Brexit and see what a disaster it is across the United Kingdom.

Preparations for Leaving the European Union

Anna Soubry Excerpts

Monday 21st October 2019 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We have an opportunity. There have been various different projections—reasonable worst-case scenarios and other projections—in respect of what might happen in the event of no deal. I absolutely assure him that if the House takes the opportunity it now has to vote for the deal, none of those scenarios will materialise and we will be able to move to the next stage of our relationship with the EU, based on free trade and friendly partnership.

[Anna Soubry (Broxtowe) (IGC)]

Although I find it difficult to believe, I appreciate that the right hon. Gentleman is not familiar, as apparently many Cabinet Ministers are not familiar, with the deal that they have negotiated with the EU, but others have looked at it in detail. I refer back to the question from my hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham East (Mr Leslie). Article 271 of the deal specifically says that goods leaving Northern Ireland and coming into Great Britain must provide an exiting summary declaration. Is the right hon. Gentleman familiar with that? Will he confirm that that is the case? In that event, are the procedures in place and have businesses in Northern Ireland been fully apprised of the impact that will have on them and on those receiving the goods? This is the deal—his deal.

[Michael Gove]

The right hon. Lady’s parliamentary colleague, the hon. Member for Nottingham East (Mr Leslie), asked about arrangements on 1 November. We would only need to have different arrangements on 1 November—

[Anna Soubry]

This is your deal!

[Michael Gove]

I am answering the question. We can have a nice conversation outside, but I will take this opportunity to answer the question before the right hon. Lady comes back. The hon. Gentleman’s question related to events and provisions on 1 November. I note that the right hon. Lady is referring to the deal and yes, it is the case that those provisions would come into effect if we had the deal, but of course we will make sure that they are seamless.

Debate on the Address

Anna Soubry Excerpts

Monday 14th October 2019 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is completely right, and the entire country is yearning for this House to come together and to work together to get Brexit done. If we can get a deal, I think it would be the will of the people of this country for us to move that deal forward, because that is the way to get on with the priorities of the British people—not just controlling immigration, but ensuring that we look after the interests of young people growing up in this country and give them the skills and investment they need to match their talent.

[Anna Soubry (Broxtowe) (IGC)]

The Prime Minister talks about Brexit. We all know that, whichever way we do Brexit, it will reduce jobs and our future prosperity. Is that why there is no mention of HS2b in the Queen’s Speech? Has he given up? [Interruption.] Yes, I know he is having to ask what HS2b is. It is the line via Toton in my constituency to Leeds that will serve the east midlands and, indeed, Yorkshire. Have the Government now given up on that vital piece of infrastructure?

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Lady knows there is an ongoing review of HS2, but this Government will be conducting the biggest infrastructure revolution of our time. I suggest that she contain her impatience until the Chancellor unveils his Budget on 6 November.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ian Blackford]

I absolutely agree. The hon. Gentleman makes a great deal of sense and he is absolutely correct. The harsh reality is that the Conservative Government have cut police numbers alarmingly over the past seven years. That stands in direct contrast to the performance of my Government—the Scottish Government—who have increased police numbers in Scotland, recognised the challenge that violent crime and knife crime presents, and dealt with that in a progressive manner north of the border.

In the context of everything that we are discussing today, we cannot ignore the behaviour that is exhibited in this place, and in particular the language that is used—language such as “the surrender Bill”, and accusing those of us who wish to stay in the European Union, which our constituents voted for, of being collaborators. The Prime Minister and his cronies talk about freedom of speech, yet they blithely ignore the abuse, online threats and death threats that many Members—[Interruption.] I find it remarkable, when many Members of this House have spoken eloquently of the death threats they have faced, that what we had from the Government Benches was loud guffawing—we lost a Member of this House a few short years ago, and we have that kind of behaviour.

Too many Members of this House are being threatened, and the behaviour that is exhibited in this place is a clarion call to those who wish to send threats to Members of Parliament. I appeal to everyone to think about where we are and the importance of the next few days. All of us—and I mean all of us—have a responsibility to call out misbehaviour whenever it happens, across the House, whichever party it comes from. We have a duty to ensure that we create respectful debate and dialogue, and I commit myself and my party to that.

[Anna Soubry]

The right hon. Gentleman makes a powerful point about the way that we conduct ourselves in this place. I am sure he will agree that it behoves us all to be careful with our language, and that includes the language of our supporters. I have had all sorts of abusive texts from all sorts of people, but I have to tell him that that includes supporters of his own party. [Interruption.] Conservative Members should not get too excited, because I have had those texts from supporters of that side of the argument as well. Wherever it happens, and whoever it comes from, it has to stop.

[Ian Blackford]

I thank the right hon. Lady, and I agree with every word she said. We must call out abuse wherever it comes from—wherever it comes from, it is not acceptable. We are all political leaders in this place, and we need to get away from the toxic environment that we live in today.

I make it clear that my colleagues and I believe that our days in this place are numbered, because we want Scotland to become an independent country in Europe. The one promise and the one commitment I give is that—

--- Later in debate ---

[Anna Soubry (Broxtowe) (IGC)]

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Mansfield (Ben Bradley), another Nottinghamshire MP; if nothing else, we are united in our determination to fight hard for the county that we are both proud to represent. I am afraid that I must disabuse him of some of his final comments about “getting Brexit done”. We hear many things said about Brexit, and most of it is inaccurate when it comes from those who still seek to make the case for the hardest form of Brexit—a no-deal Brexit. Even if the Prime Minister, notwithstanding tonight’s news that a deal is not possible in any event by Saturday, got a deal, and even if it passed through this Parliament—rather than there being the confirmatory referendum that I and many others would like—the idea that Brexit would miraculously be done, and that that would be the end of it, is for the birds.

If the hon. Gentleman and many other Conservative MPs had only applied themselves to all the great debates that have taken place in this Chamber, they would know why so many of us did not vote for the Prime Minister’s deal. I think that he did not vote for the deal until the final occasion; on the two previous occasions he chose to vote against it. But never mind that. If he had actually listened to the voices of those who, like me, voted against the former Prime Minister’s deal, he would know that one of the primary reasons we were so against it was because it did not actually tell us what our final relationship with the European Union would be. That deal was nothing more than a leap in the dark: a blindfold Brexit, as many of us called it. In particular, it did not settle that final trading relationship.

The Gracious Address, or the Queen’s Speech to use that parlance, is nothing more than a small box of sweeties put together and assembled to try to persuade the British people, particularly people in the midlands and the north, in the event of a general election, to vote Conservative on the back of apparently having delivered Brexit. In many respects, it is nothing more than a dog whistle to some of the most base of our prejudices and fears. In my experience, it will not deliver. In a moment, I will explain that, particularly in relation to crime, of which, as a former criminal barrister, I have some understanding. It was a very sorry speech which, to sum up its failings, offered no vision whatever. It did not even begin to embrace the many problems we have, Brexit aside, to look to the future and to offer hope, in particular to young people.

As we all know, if we do not have a good strong economy, we cannot do all the other things that we seek to do, whether that is to invest in our services or to invest back into our economy to make sure that our people prosper and that we can, in turn, pay for those services. Where was the reboot that our economy so desperately needs? Where were the reforms for business, which it has been crying out for now for a number of years? It was nothing more than spend, spend, spend. It is incredible that Conservative Members supporting the Queen’s Speech have the audacity to criticise the Opposition—rightly when they look to magic money trees that do not exist—when the Government are embarking on exactly the same folly: making promises to spend money that is not there. As we know, the Government’s own assessment shows that, whichever way you do Brexit, it will reduce our future prosperity and reduce jobs. That is the Government’s own assessment.

[Matt Western]

The right hon. Lady is making a powerful speech. She talks about prosperity. Does she agree that one of the great challenges and threats to us presently is the uncertainty being faced by small businesses? I am not talking purely about the uncertainty of Brexit, although that is a huge factor. We see declining consumer confidence and growing threats from the likes of the China-US trade war, which is having a wider impact on our economy. We should be doing more for small and medium-sized businesses, but there was nothing, was there?

[Anna Soubry]

No. I completely agree. There was nothing for businesses of any size, or indeed in any sectors. I have listened to the debate over the past two hours. I remember the comments of the right hon. Member for Bournemouth East (Mr Ellwood), who sadly is no longer in his place. He celebrated the successes of the manufacturing sector—he talked about pharmaceuticals, for example—yet nowhere in the Queen’s Speech is there any measure, not one, to mitigate what will happen if we leave the single market and the customs union. The just-in-time supply chains absolutely rely on, depend on and have been created from that single market.

Ironically, the single market found its greatest supporter in the former Prime Minister and former leader of the Conservative party, Margaret Thatcher. We all know that, without the single market and the customs union, our manufacturing sector—the 450,000 jobs, by way of example, in the automotive sector—will be particularly badly hit. There is no plan and no vision of how to mitigate the harm that Brexit will do to our society. It is about not just the manufacturing jobs, but what will happen to the 80% of our economy that relies on the service sector, as well as, of course, what I celebrate: the free movement of people throughout the European Union and the huge benefits that that has given to our economy. We have had no real plans there and no real solution.

Looking at the lack of investment, notably, in our infrastructure, as I said to the Prime Minister, I am concerned that there is no mention of HS2 phase 2b: the line that goes through my constituency, with the east midlands hub at Toton, and then goes up to Leeds. I am sorry that the right hon. Member for Chesham and Amersham (Dame Cheryl Gillan) is not in her place. I did not intervene on her because this is not really a debate about HS2, but HS2 is not just about taking people to London. In my constituency, it is about taking people up to Sheffield, to Birmingham and to Leeds, about providing the essential connectivity that is at the heart of a modern public transport system and about the ability to bring all these pieces together. HS2 plays a critical part in that. It provides the extra capacity and is an engine for growth. We know that, wherever those hubs exist—we have seen this from other examples in France and HS1—we find the new skilled jobs, the new exciting world of work, that can be built around that connectivity with all that it gives.

I pay tribute to the comments of the hon. Member for Newport East (Jessica Morden), who rightly talks about the value of investing in electric cars. She speaks with passion about her constituency and what that would mean for her. We certainly want people to use public transport, if we are going to achieve these hard targets that we have set ourselves for climate change, but we also need to make sure that our cars are electric. One per cent. is certainly not enough. When I was a Minister in the old Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, I sat on the inter-ministerial group for the electrification of vehicles. We had so many plans and ideas, looking at the development of battery research and the implementation of the chargers that must be put in over the full length of the United Kingdom, as my hon. Friend the Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) said. None of this work has been done. Everything has been glued up with the process of Brexit. My fear is that, if we leave the EU, it will still not get any better because we will see the harm and damage that will be done to our economy.

Services rely on a successful and growing economy, but I do not think there is anything to encourage businesses to grow in this Queen’s Speech. Without those services being properly funded, we simply will not be making the investment that we have to make as a nation. One of the great joys of the time that we are in recess, especially in the September break—and about the only benefit of the unlawful Prorogation—is that it gives us all an opportunity to visit our schools and really put that effort in. That is one of the things that I did, and it is simply not acceptable in this day and age that, for example, Chilwell School in my constituency, which was built in the late ’60s—flat-roofed, under the old Consortium of Local Authorities Special Programme system—is not fit for purpose. That is not good enough. It does not inspire young people and does not help a school that is desperately seeking to improve its standards and to offer all children the greatest opportunity to reach their full potential.

I also went to Foxwood Academy, for children with special needs, which, again, was built in the early ’70s under the CLASP system. It has corridors that are not even wide enough properly to accommodate wheelchairs. This is a special school, with flat roofs. Again, it is absolutely not fit for purpose. The deep irony is that only last week we heard from the Government that they were spending £8 billion on no-deal Brexit preparations, which would provide 400 brand spanking new schools throughout the United Kingdom—schools that are needed.

The hon. Member for Mansfield talked about social care. He wrongly said that we do not work cross-party in this place: we absolutely do. Maybe the problem is that he has not taken part in that enough. For years now people have talked about the need to work cross-party to achieve real changes in social care for our elderly population and that still has not taken place. I suggest that there are still no plans in the Queen’s Speech. We are not meeting the needs of our elderly, or of those children and young people with special needs.

We need big, bold, imaginative government to deal with the challenges of climate change and we need rigour. The party that I have the pleasure of leading—a small band but nevertheless important—takes the view that the target for complete carbon neutrality should be 2040. That is the rigour that is now needed.

I know the clock is against me, but I am nearly done—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Lindsay Hoyle)]

I suggested up to 15 minutes, so the right hon. Lady has time to carry on.

[Anna Soubry]

I am grateful, Mr Deputy Speaker.

We talk a great deal in this place about Brexit, but the one thing that we have not talked about—or actually addressed—is the causes of Brexit. I want a democratic revolution. What happened to the commitment in the 2010 manifesto that I was proud to stand on as a Conservative under the leadership of David Cameron? It included a promise that we would reduce the number of Members of Parliament and look at the boundaries to make sure that all constituencies were properly represented and we had a fairer system. That has completely gone.

I would go further and have a radical reform of local government. One size does not necessarily fit all, and I pay tribute to the courage of Conservative borough councillors in my constituency who did the right thing by making the case—bizarre though it may sound—for the abolition of the very borough council that they sit on. Like the hon. Member for Mansfield, they recognise that we need a new unitary system in the county of Nottinghamshire. We also need a much stronger role for our parish and town councils, if we take out the district and borough council levels in our county authorities. We need to put power back into the hands of local councillors who will represent people at a parish or town level. Give them more power and the ability to raise money, because they will spend it wisely on their communities whom they directly represent.

While I am on the subject of a democratic revolution, we have to have honesty in politics now. The trust between us and the electorate has been broken. Long before Brexit, people were disillusioned and fed up. One of the reasons was that too many politicians, especially in this place, were not honest with people about the tough choices they faced. They promised everything—often admirable things which could never be delivered in reality. That pragmatic and honest approach is needed.

To be honest—it might get me into trouble with the Nottingham Post—the city of Nottingham should expand. If we were being honest about how to do things better in the city, that is what we would say. But if we do, we run the risk of headlines and criticism. That lack of honesty is one of the reasons why the immigration debate is in the pitiful state it is and—at its heart—is why we have Brexit. Too many politicians could not be trusted to have an open, honest debate based on evidence. On that basis, we look at the Conservative party and see the drift to the right—

[Andrew Bowie]

indicated dissent.

[Anna Soubry]

The hon. Gentleman shakes his head, but the fact is that 21 members of his party were effectively expelled from the party for having the temerity to put their country before their party. They were, in effect, expelled. Joseph Stalin would have been proud. As for the Labour party, that too is in the grip of neo-Marxists who would take us into a command economy, making promises that they could not deliver.

I think there is a great deal that we should be talking about. Whether it is the fact that we should be bringing British citizens back from northern Syria, or the fact that there was no mention of housing in the Queen’s Speech, a huge problem—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. I can honestly say that I have been very generous, but the right hon. Lady is now abusing the Chair, and I do not think that that is fair.

Preparations for Leaving the EU

Anna Soubry Excerpts

Tuesday 8th October 2019 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

My right hon. Friend was kind enough to say that I was courteous; I also thank him for the courtesy and thoughtfulness with which he addresses every issue in this House. He is right: it is important for all of us in public life, whether we are appearing here at the Dispatch Box or working for Government Ministers or Opposition figures, to use language that shows our respect for differing points of view, even as we hold robustly to our own.

[Anna Soubry (Broxtowe) (IGC)]

This is Brexit reality: £8 billion of taxpayers’ money—the equivalent of 400 brand spanking new state-of-the-art schools—being spent on something that people did not vote for and were not promised. We have just heard about the cost to business—£15 billion—and that is before we have sorted out the tariffs. The leave campaign, of which the right hon. Gentleman was a proud leader, promised that we would not leave the European Union until we had secured a good deal. We were told that it was going to be so easy that it would take somewhere in the matter of a few days. Three and a half years on, the reason why we have not left the EU is that the simple truth is that whichever way we do it, it will harm our economy and cut jobs and the future prosperity of our constituents. He talks about the 17 million people who swallowed many of the falsehoods and fake promises that were made by him and others, forgetting the 29 million who did not vote for us to leave the EU. Is not the only way out of this crisis now to put this matter back to the British people by way of a confirmatory referendum—at last, a people’s vote?

[Michael Gove]

No.

Brexit Negotiations

Anna Soubry Excerpts

Thursday 3rd October 2019 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I congratulate my hon. Friend because it was after all his amendment that went to the heart of what I think the House saw as the fundamental problem with the previous withdrawal agreement. These proposals address those concerns and I hope that right hon. and hon. Members will get behind them.

[Anna Soubry (Broxtowe) (IGC)]

Mr Speaker, I am sure you will have observed that the Prime Minister’s predecessor, to her credit, at least got things in the right order. She got an agreement with the EU that commanded support, it has to be said, in Northern Ireland, but she could not get it through this place. The Prime Minister thinks he has got the support of Parliament, but he has not got any support from the EU and he has not got the support of the people of Northern Ireland. I congratulate him on getting a deal with the ERG and the DUP, but I remind him that the DUP does not represent the people of Northern Ireland—and I observe that they cannot even be bothered to turn up today. Will the Prime Minister confirm that not one single other political party or any organisation in Northern Ireland supports his con of a so-called deal?

[The Prime Minister]

I am not sure I was expecting support from the right hon. Lady, but I had hoped that she would see the advantages of our proposal. I think that it offers a way forward for the UK, for Ireland and for all communities in Northern Ireland. It offers security and stability and, above all, protects the Good Friday process and a frictionless border. So I hope it will have her support.

Brexit Readiness: Operation Yellowhammer

Anna Soubry Excerpts

Wednesday 25th September 2019 Commons Chamber

[Anna Soubry (Broxtowe) (IGC)]

I am going to remind the Minister that he has yet again not answered the question about when the name on the Yellowhammer document was changed and by whom, so I would like to ask him that as well. Please will he answer the questions that he did not answer from the right hon. and learned Member for Beaconsfield (Mr Grieve) and from the shadow Brexit Secretary, the right hon. and learned Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Keir Starmer)? Could he also confirm the existence of Operation Kingfisher and Operation Snow Bunting? There is a bird theme in all this. I do not know whether there is also an operation dodo, covering his plans for a no-deal Brexit, or an operation ostrich, involving the communal sticking of heads in the sand as the realities of no deal dawn—or, indeed, an operation blue tit, upon which I will make no comment. My final question is this: does Operation Yellowhammer still exist, or has it also had its name changed? If he could answer those specific questions, we would all be very grateful.

[Michael Gove]

I am grateful for that ornithological outing from my right hon. Friend. The first thing to say is that Operation Yellowhammer absolutely does exist. It is the reasonable worst-case scenario, and the planning assumptions, as the National Audit Office has outlined, are those which we seek to, and have taken steps to, mitigate. She also referred to Operation Kingfisher, which is the programme led by the Treasury and the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy in order to ensure that we can intervene as appropriate in particular sectors in the event of no deal. I am afraid that there is no operation dodo, although I can well understand why the Independent Group for Change would be interested in such an exercise.

Prime Minister's Update

Anna Soubry Excerpts

Wednesday 25th September 2019 Commons Chamber

[Anna Soubry (Broxtowe) (IGC)]

Having read yesterday’s judgment by the learned judges in a unanimous verdict of the highest court in the land—and I congratulate all those who brought the action to defend this sovereign Parliament—I see that, on two important matters, the Government clearly did not defend or supply evidence. That is why the learned judges came to the conclusions they did. The evidence of Sir John Major was that, normally, a Government would prorogue for some five days. That evidence was not challenged by this Prime Minister and Government. They offered no evidence on why they sought a Prorogation of five weeks. That led the learned judges, at paragraph 56—I am pleased to see that the Prime Minister is making a note; I hope he will go and read the judgment and will not be honing his pole dancing skills instead—to write:

“This was not a normal prorogation in the run-up to a Queen’s Speech. It prevented Parliament from carrying out its constitutional role for five out of…eight weeks”.

At paragraph 61—[Interruption.] They do not want to hear it, but they will hear it, because the learned judges unanimously concluded that there was not

“any reason—let alone a good reason—to advise Her Majesty to prorogue Parliament for five weeks”.

I came here today not just to represent my constituents but hoping that the Prime Minister would show humility in the face of the condemnation in this judgment. Will he apologise, if not to this place then to the country, and has he apologised to Her Majesty the Queen?

[The Prime Minister]

As the right hon. Lady can imagine, I will not comment on my conversations with Her Majesty. I am afraid she is sadly in error in her history. To my memory, John Major prorogued Parliament for 18 days before he even had an election, and all we were going to lose was four or five sitting days over the party conference period. She will have ample opportunity, after the European Union summit on 17 and 18 October, to debate Brexit again, as is her privilege, her prerogative and indeed her pleasure, and it was always intended that she should.

--- Later in debate ---

[John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

[Anna Soubry (Broxtowe) (IGC)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

[Mr Speaker]

If the points of order, consistent with the earlier approach, arise specifically from and relate to the matters with which we have just been dealing, I will take them. [Interruption.] Prime Minister, I think it would be a courtesy to stay for the point of order—a point of order that relates to the matter with which we have just been dealing. [Interruption.] Go and sit down. [Interruption.] Well, I asked the Prime Minister if he would be willing to stay, but he does not wish to do so. So be it. The point of order from Mr John McDonnell will be heard.

[Mr Speaker]

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for his point of order. I did not say to the Prime Minister that the point of order related to his conduct or behaviour; I did not know what the point of order was going to be. I said to the Prime Minister that the point of order related to the matters with which we had just been dealing; in other words, in keeping with the approach that I adopted in respect of points of order following earlier statements—points of order that came from hon. or right hon. Members on both sides of the House—I was happy to take them after the statements to which they related. I suggested that the Prime Minister might wish to stay. He indicated initially that he was minded to do so, but he then decided that he wished to leave the Chamber. He has been here since 6.30; he was here for three hours and 11 minutes, and he has chosen to leave.

What I would like to say to the shadow Chancellor and to other colleagues is that I have been in the Chair since 11.30 and will remain for the remainder of the proceedings. Therefore, I have inevitably heard everything that has been said on this and other matters, and I think the fairest thing I can say is that I have heard the Prime Minister say explicitly that we will always obey the law, we will abide by the law and we will adhere to the law. He has said that. Equally, I did hear the answer that he gave earlier. I think his words related to the submission of a request for an extension, and he indicated that he would not be minded to do so. I heard the full question and I heard the full answer, and I think the right and proper thing to say, at this point, is that colleagues—hon. and right hon. Members—should study the record and form their own assessment of it. I have, of course, myself said, as anybody would expect any citizen to say, any parliamentarian to say or any Speaker to say, that adherence to the law must, of course, be non-negotiable.

I do not think that I need to add to that tonight. Let us reflect on these matters, let us remain calm and let us assess the record. Just as I said, good-naturedly, I think, to the Prime Minister some minutes ago in a slightly different context that repetition was not a novel phenomenon in the House of Commons—never has been, is not and will not be—there will be further opportunities for Members to raise these matters, including this very particular point, in subsequent days. This Chair will always facilitate the fullest and most unsparing scrutiny of the Executive branch, because that is the responsibility of the Speaker—not to be a craven lickspittle of the Executive branch, but to facilitate the fullest and most unsparing scrutiny of it. That is my job, and come hell or high water I will continue to discharge it. Non-negotiable—end of subject.

[Anna Soubry (Broxtowe) (IGC)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I, too, am very sad that the Prime Minister has left, because I had hoped to raise this point of order to give him the opportunity to perhaps correct the record and reflect on his language and conduct in this House tonight. It gives me no pleasure to say that I am 62, I have been around and I have seen quite a lot of stuff in my life. It takes a lot to reduce this hon. Member to tears. I am not alone tonight; there are others who I believe have left the estate, such has been their distress.

I merely say to everybody in this place, but most notably to those who hold the highest of offices in this the most peculiar and extraordinary of political times, that the language that is used is incredibly important. Whatever side of the debate people are on, we have evidence that when they use words such as “surrender” or “capitulation”, or others use the words “traitor” and “treason”, there is a direct consequence. It means my mother receives a threat to her safety. It means my partner receives a death threat. It means that people go to prison or receive suspended sentences—unreported by a media that have lost the plot—because of the death threats made to hon. Members whose only crime and offence is to say what they believe in, to be true to their principles and to try to serve this country and their constituents. The consequences are that many will not want to return to this place, and a younger generation will not want to serve this country in the future.

[Mr Speaker]

I have heard what the right hon. Lady has said, and I treat it with the greatest possible respect. I am well aware of, and personally familiar with, the fact of the abuse and threats to which she has been subject over a long period. I deprecate in the strongest and most uncompromising terms those threats to her and to other Members. I have received many myself as a matter of fact—I am not complaining about that; I am simply saying that I empathise with her because I have been on the receiving end of many such communications myself. Each and every one of us has a responsibility to weigh his or her words and to try to make the arguments in which we believe with care and, if possible, with eloquence, and even, from time to time, with humour, but in terms that demonstrate respect for those who hold a point of view that differs from our own. I have a feeling that this is a point to which Members will return in days to come.

I cannot overstate the frequency with which I have been informed over the past year or so by Members on both sides of the House, and on both sides of the Brexit argument, of the fact and persistence of threats that they have received. I have previously said very publicly that, in relation to media outlets which have prominently depicted Members as though they were public enemies for differing from the vantage point of those media outlets, that cannot be right. That cannot be right. I have no desire to escalate the tensions and every desire to try to use words that are pacifying rather than inflammatory.

In relation to the Leader of the House, let me say that I am well aware that offensive abuse has been directed at members of his family, and that has been intimidating, and that is wrong. It is not possibly wrong or conceivably wrong or in a certain situation wrong. That is wrong—end of subject—and so is the abuse and threats that other Members have received. The reality of the matter—and I say this with all the force and insistence at my command without fear of contradiction—is that female Members and Members of our ethnic minority communities have been disproportionately subject to that abuse and those threats. It requires nobody to seek to contradict it, because that is the fact. I know it, and the right hon. Lady knows it. We have to rise up against it and to resist it, and everybody has a part to play, including the holders of very high offices.