UK Steel Industry

Debate between Andrew Percy and Martin Vickers

Tuesday 9th July 2019 Westminster Hall

[Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con)]

It pains me to disagree slightly with the hon. Member for Rotherham (Sarah Champion)—for whom I have a high regard and whom I consider a friend—but it is simply not the case that the Government have done nothing. It is also a little rich to take lectures from Labour, under whose last tenure in government the number of people working in the steel industry halved and UK steel production fell.

It is not the case that the Government have done nothing. This Government have acted to defend the steel industry in a number of ways, whether by creating the scheme that enables the company to be reimbursed for its high energy costs, by restructuring business rates, which have a direct beneficial impact on the site in Scunthorpe, through the millions of pounds that they made available shortly before the liquidation of British Steel to cover the EU carbon credits, or through the tens of millions of pounds that the Government were prepared to put in but could not do so because an arrangement on a commercial basis, as required by UK and EU state aid laws, could not be achieved. The Government have a strong record of supporting the sector and supporting steel workers in Scunthorpe.

It was the UK Government in the EU that led demands to change procurement rules within the European Union, just a few years ago, to make it easier for us to procure UK steel. Of course, those procurement rules are still a challenge for us. The Government cannot just turn around, as some people think, and say, “We are going to use UK steel in all Government contracts.” That would be illegal under UK and EU law, and—for those who think that a no-deal Brexit is the answer to all this—it would even be illegal under World Trade Organisation rules.

Having used half my speech to slightly disagree with my friend the hon. Member for Rotherham, I will say why we need the Government to act now and set out some things they need to do.

As the hon. Member for Scunthorpe (Nic Dakin) outlined, our area relies strongly on the steel industry. Scunthorpe is a steel town; north Lincolnshire is, in many ways, a steel district. Most of the workers—the lion’s share, probably—live in my constituency. We cannot underestimate the impact of steel workers on our local economy, because these are some of the best paid and most skilled jobs we have in our area. I am not prone to hyperbole—well I am, but let us pretend I am not—but to lose them would be devastating on our local economy.

[Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con)]

Will my hon. Friend give way?

[Andrew Percy]

Of course I will give way to my neighbour.

[Martin Vickers]

My hon. Friend is, as always, erudite—that is the word I was looking for. His point about the northern Lincolnshire economy is well made, as it was by the hon. Member for Scunthorpe (Nic Dakin). Would he also acknowledge that this issue spreads far and wide? Some 150 people are employed at the port of Immingham, either by Associated British Ports or British Steel directly. Speaking as chairman of the all-party parliamentary group on rail, I can say that there are impacts not just on the supply of steel but on the movement of raw materials.

[Andrew Percy]

Absolutely. I do not need to repeat what my hon. Friend said; all that is true and demonstrates how important the industry is not just to our sub-region or region, but to the whole UK economy.

Where are we now? I thank the Minister and the Secretary of State for the positive way in which they have engaged with local stakeholders, unions, the councils and local Members of Parliament. I genuinely believe that this Government are trying to do everything they can to secure a future for the site. This is an independent procedure through the official receiver, but locally we do not want to see a partitioning off or a selling off of different parts of the business. We want to see the business sold in its entirety. For the reasons stated by the hon. Member for Scunthorpe in relation to the strategic importance of the industry, we have to continue producing steel in Scunthorpe.

The Government must stand ready to do all they can financially to support the industry. There are tens of millions of pounds that were available before the liquidation, which we have been assured remain available for any new partner on a commercial basis, as required by law. Can the Minister reconfirm that today? That would be appreciated.

We have to be honest about the situation if a buyer cannot be found. We know that we are down to a shortlist —it is good that there are number of buyers who are realistic prospects to purchase the business—but as I and other colleagues have repeatedly said, we must not be close-minded about any particular structure moving forward. Nationalisation does not get us over the problems of investment having to be on a commercial basis. That might or might not be an answer in and of itself, but it does not mean we should simply rule that option out, or the option of a public-private partnership. Every option should be considered by Government to ensure that the whole business can continue to operate.

We do not want the crumbs off the plate, as it were, and just a few hundred jobs saved if part of the business were sold separately. We want it to continue in its current form because it is so strategically important to UK plc.

European Union (Withdrawal) (No. 5) Bill

Debate between Andrew Percy and Martin Vickers

2nd reading: House of Commons
Wednesday 3rd April 2019 Commons Chamber

[Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con)]

Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I was only just beginning to write my speech, but I shall muddle along. Needless to say, as an almost lifelong Brexit supporter, I shall be speaking against the proposal. I recognise that there are Members across the House who quite genuinely did not want to leave the European Union and who believe that the best interests of our country are served by being a member of that Union. That is a perfectly honourable position. What I find objectionable, however, is that some are quite deliberately seeking to frustrate the will of the British people that was so clearly demonstrated in June 2016. In my constituency, there was a 70% vote to leave. I am pleased about that, because I was one of them. I have campaigned long and hard to achieve this. I know I do not look old enough, but I did actually vote in the 1975 referendum, and of course I voted to leave on that occasion.

[Andrew Percy]

Will my hon. Friend give way?

[Martin Vickers]

I will happily give way to my neighbour.

[Andrew Percy]

Is it not the case that many of our constituents, nearly 70% of whom voted to leave the European Union, as my hon. Friend says, now think that there is a stitch-up trying to deny the referendum result? That is a problem with Bills such as this. It is perfectly fine for people to talk about coming together, but when legislation proposed by people on the other side of the campaign would deny a way of leaving the EU, our constituents will only feel that this place is more out of touch with them and that this is all one massive stitch-up.

[Martin Vickers]

My hon. Friend and constituency neighbour is absolutely right in his analysis.

Moving on, some people argue for a second referendum, or a so-called people’s vote, as if the people did not vote on the first occasion.

Patient Transport Services: Northern Lincolnshire

Debate between Andrew Percy and Martin Vickers

Tuesday 16th January 2018 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Percy]

I could not disagree with a word the hon. Lady said. She has stolen my thunder—[Interruption.] No, it is good! I was going to come on to the company’s treatment of volunteer drivers. Not only has it said that it will not pay them for mileage unless a patient is in the vehicle, but at three months’ notice it told them that if their vehicles were more than five years old, they could no longer be volunteer drivers. Despite that having been its policy for a considerable time, a company cannot give volunteers three months’ notice like that—say, effectively, “Change your vehicle or give up on the service.” Through its own actions, the company has made an already struggling service much worse. It has absolutely brought the situation on itself.

I have dealt with the issue of volunteer drivers, and I thank the hon. Member for Great Grimsby (Melanie Onn) for raising it. I want to give a couple of examples from my constituency to demonstrate how poor the service has been. One of my constituents in Brigg was given short notice that their transport was to be cancelled because there were no ambulances. That meant that this person, who suffers from mobility issues, had to cancel an important scan. It is impossible for them to get in or out of vehicles unless they have been specially arranged.

The mother of another constituent from Crowle on the Isle of Axholme is 87 years old; she suffers from dementia, is partially sighted and has been repeatedly left stranded following appointments arranged way in advance. My constituent has completely lost trust in the service and family members have had to take time off work to ensure that the lady gets to hospital. The service is there to ensure that that does not have to happen. The situation is completely unacceptable.

Another constituent from the Isle of Axholme has repeatedly been left stranded and unable to book an ambulance. They have been forced to use expensive taxis, which meant that the trip doubled in length. On one occasion the service failed to fulfil a pick-up arranged in advance, and that again required them to use a taxi. The service is totally unacceptable.

[Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con)]

rose—

[Andrew Percy]

I give way to my north Lincolnshire colleague.

[Martin Vickers]

Like the Opposition Members and my hon. Friend, I have a long list of complaints from constituents, but I want to highlight a particularly bad case. On two occasions—once at Scunthorpe Hospital and once at Grimsby Hospital—a 91-year-old gentleman in Barton-upon-Humber had to wait for four hours before transport was provided to get him home. On one occasion, he did not get home until past midnight. The situation is extremely serious.

[Andrew Percy]

Absolutely. As my hon. Friend has highlighted again in this debate, we are not talking about one or two cases: Members of Parliament across our area have multiple cases. I want to highlight another one. Another constituent of mine, this time from Burton-upon-Stather, has to attend Castle Hill Hospital for chemotherapy every single day. His experience is of ambulances frequently being late, of other patients missing their appointments and of late collection for following treatment. As he has pointed out, receiving chemotherapy means that he is already very ill and weakened, but not just once but regularly he has had to wait up to three hours for an ambulance to collect him. He has also had issues with the booking system and trying to get a place at all.

My final example is of another constituent living just outside Burton-upon-Stather: 82 years old, suffering from Alzheimer’s, in a wheelchair and with very poor mobility, he is totally dependent on the assistance of others to get to and from hospital. Again, his experience is of frequently waiting for the service to collect him from Scunthorpe Hospital. Not so long ago, during snowy, freezing weather, he was left for over three hours in a hospital doorway, waiting for a lift. In the end, hospital staff intervened and brought him inside to warm up, but yet again the experience of the complaints process was that Thames Ambulance Service was wholly unresponsive in dealing with complaints.

--- Later in debate ---

[Andrew Percy]

It is incredible that what is judged to be a failing trust has a failing transport patient service that is making it even more difficult for it to get out of special measures. That is another reason I brought this matter to the House today.

Following on from the intervention of the hon. Member for Scunthorpe (Nic Dakin), one of my requests is to the Department for Transport—so not directly in the gift of the Minister in the Department of Health and Social Care—which is currently undertaking a transport accessibility consultation. It might be sensible if the issue of patient transport were to be wound up as part of that. That is one of my asks. I know that the Minister cannot respond, as it is not her Department, but it would be useful if she could pursue it interdepartmentally.



I want to give the Minister enough time to respond, so I will not say much more, but the concerns that I have described are shared by the clinical commissioning group, which has raised these issues with North Lincolnshire Council’s health scrutiny panel on a number of occasions and has told the panel that there will be further sanctions if the service does not improve. Sadly, that was said at the end of October, and, as other Members’ interventions have made clear, there has been no turnaround since then.

[Martin Vickers]

I agree with my hon. Friend that action needs to be taken. Does he agree that the service has had long enough to get its act together, and that the Minister ought to be consulting the local health trust and the CCG with a view to terminating the contract?

[Andrew Percy]

I think that that is absolutely true. The chairman of the scrutiny panel, Holly Mumby-Croft, who is a councillor for the Broughton and Appleby ward in my constituency, has said that the “volume of people” who have contacted the panel directly is “very unusual”. It is for people to go directly to a scrutiny panel; not many are aware of the position of the council. That alone suggests that the problem cannot be solved through the usual channels. After the most recent appearance of Thames Ambulance Service before the panel, the chairman said:

“I have seen actually no improvement. None at all. It is worse.”

There is something seriously failing here, and it is putting the performance of our local hospitals at risk. More important, it is having a huge impact on our constituents.

I realise that the Government did not commission the service, and that it was commissioned by the CCG, which is responsible for the performance of the contract. However, I have some asks of the Minister.

Could the whole issue of patient transport be considered as part of the consultation that is currently being undertaken by the Department for Transport? Will the Minister and the Department look at the performance of Thames Ambulance Service in north Lincolnshire, and perhaps also in Hull, to see whether anything can be done directly by the Department to improve its performance? Will they, if necessary, look into what powers are available to establish whether or not this is a business that should be operating within the health service at all? If it is routinely leaving people with three and a half to four hours to get home, surely we need to ask, whether through NHS England or locally, whether this organisation should be allowed to provide transport services.

I accept that responsibility lies directly with the commissioners. I therefore urge the Minister to engage with the north Lincolnshire CCG and put maximum pressure on it to ensure that the powers made available in the contract tender to impose fines or even terminate the contract are used if there are not serious improvements very quickly. I have no confidence that the service will improve. I think it is time that the contract was terminated, and that either the local authority or the local ambulance service has another opportunity to tender. All of us in our area want the same thing. We want a patient transport service that does what it is meant to do: take people to hospital and get them home in a timely manner.

I look forward to the Minister’s response.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Andrew Percy and Martin Vickers

Monday 24th April 2017 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Percy]

May I begin by congratulating the hon. Gentleman on his marathon success yesterday? For such a young man, he did it in such an interesting time; he deserves full credit for it. He raises an issue that I am fully aware of in Scunthorpe, which is a town centre that is on its way back. I am happy to discuss with him further what we can do across Government to help to deal with the problem.

[Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con)]

Traders in Cleethorpes High Street and elsewhere in the resort are concerned following a decision by North East Lincolnshire council, which is Labour controlled, to close a number of public toilets and refuse to repair others. That is having a very detrimental effect. I know that my hon. Friend, as the coastal communities Minister, would want to look favourably on future funding requests so that these amenities can be improved.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Andrew Percy and Martin Vickers

Monday 27th February 2017 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Percy]

I was in York just last Friday to speak to Make It York and celebrate our funding for the York Central enterprise zones. As the hon. Lady will be aware, business rates bills across the north will be falling, but as the Chancellor and my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State have made absolutely clear, we are committed to supporting further those businesses that are hardest impacted by rises. Across the north more generally, however, we will see falls in business rates.

[Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con)]

As the Minister knows, the Humber local enterprise partnership was recently allocated £27 million under the growth fund. The two local authorities that serve the Cleethorpes constituency are also members of the Lincolnshire LEP. Will he enlighten us on when their settlement is due?

[Andrew Percy]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right that we recently allocated £27 million to the Humber in the growth deal. It is important to remember that, on a per-head basis, that is more than has been received in large parts of the south of England. We will announce in the coming weeks the Greater Lincolnshire LEP allocations that also cover North and North East Lincolnshire as part of the £392 million package for the midlands.

Humber Energy Estuary

Debate between Andrew Percy and Martin Vickers

Tuesday 9th February 2016 Commons Chamber

[Martin Vickers]

It is perfectly true that, unfortunately, there was a misunderstanding and the LEP submission was too late. I certainly urge the Minister, if it is within her power, to grant an extension to the Humber LEP so that the college can be established in the obvious place for it.

[Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con)]

Goole.

[Martin Vickers]

I cannot think why my hon. Friend is shouting “Goole”, but to give him his due he has played a supportive role in all that we have done. Certainly, the MPs from the south bank—

UK Steel Industry

Debate between Andrew Percy and Martin Vickers

Thursday 17th September 2015 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Percy]

I agree with the hon. Gentleman. My hon. Friend the Member for Cleethorpes and I were two Conservative Members who voted against the imposition of the carbon floor price because of the impact that it would have not just on steel but on petrochemicals, which are massively important to North Lincolnshire and east Yorkshire. We would like the compensation scheme to be brought forward, as I planned to say later in my speech.

As the hon. Member for Redcar said, the nature of the steel industry is changing, and she gave a figure for how much steel we now import, compared with in the past. The figures that I was provided with state that 90% of steel consumed in the UK in the ’70s was from domestic production, but that share is now 20%. That unfortunate decline has taken place under successive Governments over the past few decades. The UK steel industry has had to become more export focused, which is part of the problem and a challenge for Scunthorpe. The hon. Member for Scunthorpe, my hon. Friend the Member for Cleethorpes and I, together with our council leader who will shortly enter the other place, met a couple of weeks ago. We were told once again that although UK demand appeared to be picking up and doing well, the concern for Scunthorpe is the weakness in the European market, as well as other issues that I shall mention. That focus on export is a major weakness at present.

As the hon. Member for Redcar said, the sector continues to suffer from an economic crisis. The service sector-led economic recovery has left steel-consuming sectors such as construction as much as 10% below their 2007 levels. The recovery so far has been less steel-intensive than we might have hoped. In the UK, demand is 75% of pre-recession levels. Further challenges, which the hon. Lady outlined, come from Chinese dumping and currency issues. Those factors, as she accepted, are outside the control of this or any Government in Europe. The current strength of the pound is another issue to which the hon. Lady referred.

Tata has made three asks of the Government, which the hon. Lady mentioned. It is almost as if we co-ordinated our contributions. One of Tata’s requests, as the hon. Member for Middlesbrough (Andy McDonald) said in an intervention, relates to the energy-intensive industries compensation scheme. I do not need to go into detail, having said what I have said already, but if that compensation mechanism were brought forward, that would be most welcome. Energy prices, as we know, are 50% higher in the UK than for the UK steel industry’s main competitor in Germany. Companies in continental Europe are not facing the same cost pressures, nor are they awaiting a decision on state aid rules. So there are steps that can be taken by the Government to improve the situation, and I know that the Minister has heard these.

[Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con)]

I agree entirely with all the points my hon. Friend is making. Does he recall that when we met Tata Steel, along with the hon. Member for Scunthorpe (Nic Dakin), one of its other requests was for modest support for some work that needs to be done to determine the firm’s future? Does my hon. Friend join me in hoping that the Minister will view that request sympathetically when she replies?

[Andrew Percy]

Indeed. We have communicated that request directly to the Minister. I welcome my hon. Friend’s intervention.

Business rates were mentioned by the hon. Member for Redcar. Removing plant and machinery from business rates valuation would have a massive impact, because business rates are five to 10 times higher in the United Kingdom than in Europe. That has a significant impact on Scunthorpe especially, making up 49% of the annual rates at that site or £12 million per annum. North Lincolnshire council has looked at what it can do on business rates, particularly in respect of cash flow. Expecting a small local authority such as that to take a hit on business rates, and putting it in a position where, if it provides relief, it may not be able to provide services, is not fair to North Lincolnshire council. This is an issue on which the Government need to respond.

We had a positive meeting with Tata recently, at which the council said it would see whether payments could be made every two or three months instead of monthly, which would help with cash flow at the site. I know North Lincolnshire council is looking closely at that. When lawyers get involved, these things always become more complicated and there are state aid issues, but the council has assured me that it will do everything it can to help on the cash-flow issue. However, that does not deal with the issues arising from the business rates regime in the UK, compared with elsewhere in Europe.

Humber Flood Risk Management Strategy

Debate between Andrew Percy and Martin Vickers

Tuesday 1st July 2014 Westminster Hall

[Martin Vickers]

The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely correct. It is frightening to consider that people are still suffering in that way after six or seven years. As he also pointed out in his speech, floodwaters do not follow constituency boundaries.

We have been united in our approach to the issue. My right hon. Friend the Member for Haltemprice and Howden spoke about the united approach taken by local authorities. As those of us who live locally know well, the Humber can often divide communities, particularly political communities, but on this occasion we are absolutely united. The Government are putting together longer-term plans, and the figures—between £800 million and £900 million—have been quoted during the debate. I recognise that the Minister is not going to write us a cheque later today—

[Andrew Percy]

Tsk!

[Martin Vickers]

As my hon. Friend points out, that is extremely disappointing, but our constituents deserve nothing less than a serious plan, in the very near future, that will guarantee them the security and safety they need in their homes. If industry in northern Lincolnshire and the Humberside area is to go forward as we all want it to, it needs, as the right hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle (Alan Johnson) pointed out, to know that the Government are behind it and that the Environment Agency and every Government agency involved will produce a long-term plan that provides the necessary security.

--- Later in debate ---

[Andrew Percy]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for reminding me of that excellent bid, which aims for transition funds from the Department for Communities and Local Government and will be decided on towards the end of the year. He recently met the Humberside fire and rescue service to discuss the bid, which would create a national flood training centre. We do not currently have such a centre and firefighters must undertake training in fresh water, which is not always as clean as it could be. Events cannot be modelled in such water, but, more importantly, many firefighters come back with stomach bugs, which makes the practice expensive. Where better could a training centre that can model flood events be placed than in the Humber, which has the second highest flood risk after London? The bid has support from both sides of the Humber and from MPs of both parties, so if there is anything that the Minister can do to push it along with his friends at DCLG, it would be greatly appreciated.

I praise the Government for acting swiftly with the surveying work and for providing additional funding, which will benefit my constituency in the short term, but it is only a short-term fix. Although we are grateful for additional funding, today’s debate has been about the long-term strategy that is desperately required. Our region—the Humber, east Yorkshire and north Lincolnshire—is on the edge of an economic renewal. The Siemens investment has been talked about, and there is the potential Able site, so a lot is happening. The greatest risk to economic renewal must be the potential failure properly and adequately to deal with the massive flood risk. £888 million does sound like a lot of money, but it is not that significant when spread over 10 or 15 years. The potential return tells us all we need to know about the value of that money.

I do not have time to go on about the problems with the current funding system, such as building in future development and the value of agricultural land—the Minister has heard those arguments before—but I urge the Minister, who is gracious in all debates and knowledgeable about the flooding that hit our area, to do all that he can to support our proposal for a long-term solution to the problems. Although I said that it was outrageous that he would not write us a cheque for £888 million today, it is not actually all that outrageous—

[Martin Vickers]

Tomorrow will do.

[Andrew Percy]

As my hon. Friend says, tomorrow will do. We simply need to build support within the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and across Government for a long-term solution to a unique problem. Everybody claims that their area is unique, but the Humber really is, for all the reasons that have been expressed today. There is a massive flood risk to infrastructure there.

I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Member for Haltemprice and Howden on securing the debate. We will move forward as a united group to meet the Prime Minister next week, which will not be the end of it. We will continue to push the matter to ensure not only that businesses get the required investment to encourage them to create jobs in the area, but also that the homes of the people whom we represent are better protected in future.

Planning (North East Lincolnshire)

Debate between Andrew Percy and Martin Vickers

Tuesday 29th April 2014 Westminster Hall

[Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con)]

As always, it is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hollobone.

I will focus on the inability of North East Lincolnshire council, as the local planning authority, to protect the best interests of local residents and to allow communities to influence major planning issues in their own areas. Although I acknowledge that it is not possible to separate local decision making from the role of central Government because of national guidance, I aim to highlight the fact that, because the council will not have an approved local plan until November 2017, it will be almost impossible to defend decisions made in line with local opinion. I also want to ask the Minister to consider intervening—if not now, certainly at some time at the future—to protect my constituents from unwanted, unloved developments that have the potential to destroy the environment and change many of the villages that make up the rural part of my constituency for ever.

It will help if I sketch out a picture of my constituency. The town and resort of Cleethorpes is part of the urban area of Grimsby and Cleethorpes, and only locals know where the boundary between the two lies. Roads such as Park street and Clee road have one side in Grimsby and the other in Cleethorpes. The villages that form the suburbs of Grimsby and Cleethorpes have distinct identities. In the past, when regional spatial strategies were in place, things were complicated by the fact that many suburbs were not just in a different council jurisdiction but in a different region. People will accept new developments and there is a need for more housing, but unless councils have proper policies in place, developments will take place in a haphazard fashion and will not be part of a proper structure.

My constituency is served by two unitary authorities, Conservative-controlled North Lincolnshire and Labour-controlled North East Lincolnshire. Around three quarters of the constituency is in North East Lincolnshire, and I wish to focus on that area today. In recent months, the council has had to determine a number of applications, particularly in the Humberston and New Waltham ward, but villages in the Waltham ward and the Wolds ward are now also being affected.

As we know, local plans are the rock on which local authorities build their planning policies and are subject to intense scrutiny by local people, acting both as individuals and collectively, through residents associations and, importantly, through parish councils. Without an up-to-date plan, a council is unable to direct developments to preferred sites that have been the subject of extensive local consultation.

In recent months, North East Lincolnshire council’s failings have been highlighted by the planning inspector who heard the appeal into the proposal by Keystone Developments. The inspector published an extremely critical report, highlighting the council’s many failings. The inspector’s report to the Secretary of State stated, in paragraph 5.1:

“The Council is not able to demonstrate a 5 year supply of housing land…locally-derived figures require 410 houses per year for the period 2011-2017, and 520 houses per year thereafter… The Council has not succeeded in delivering 410 houses in any recent year… The implication of this is that the first part of LP Policy GEN2 has to be treated as out of date”.

When local plans are out of date, there is a presumption in favour of development.

The report points to the council’s failure to meet its statutory duty to identify a five-year supply of land for residential development. Failure to meet that requirement means that local people suffer. Of course, identifying such land can be controversial and there will always be objections—those of us who have served as local councillors know that there are serial objectors who will oppose anything and everything—but the overwhelming number of people will accept decisions when they have seen a transparent process and have been able to have their say through their elected representatives and as individuals.

[Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con)]

I pay tribute to my hon. Friend for his excellent work on behalf of his constituents in Cleethorpes. I know that the electorate there appreciates it, and as his constituency neighbour, I hear positive things from residents. Will he draw out once more the comparison between the two unitary authorities? The situation that he is demanding is what happens in the parts of his constituency and mine that are under North Lincolnshire council—the local authority has clear plans in place and is prepared to stand up for residents and to go to appeal and defend them in such cases. Often, it does so in the teeth of opposition from Labour councils, which then accuse the council of wasting money because it is standing up for people. There is a real contrast in our area between the appalling situation under North East Lincolnshire council and what happens under North Lincolnshire council, where residents are at the centre of planning policy.

[Martin Vickers]

My hon. Friend highlights something that is apparent. As I mentioned earlier, two wards of North Lincolnshire council are in my constituency. Under the leadership of Councillor Liz Redfern, that council is robust and determined in its planning policies and, as my hon. Friend points out, prepared to defend the interests of local communities. It is able to do so because it has a robust local plan and is proceeding well with its new plan.

When the Department for Communities and Local Government was required to confirm the inspector’s findings, there was no possible reason for it to overturn the decision. Indeed, the letter sent by the Department to confirm the inspector’s decision said in point 6:

“The current Local Development Scheme states that the new Local Plan is due to be adopted in 2015. As the new Local Plan is still in the early stage of preparation, the Secretary of State attaches little weight to it in the determination of this appeal.”

I draw to the Minister’s attention the fact that a report approved by North East Lincolnshire council’s cabinet on 31 March shows that the amended date for final adoption of the new local plan has slipped further, to November 2017. For a further three and a half years, my constituents will be left high and dry by their local authority and will be unable to protect the environment or identities of their local communities.

I return to the Department’s letter, which in paragraph 7 states:

“The Council accepts that it does not have a five year housing land supply, and as a consequence, LP policies relevant to the supply of housing should not be considered up-to-date”.

As the inspector’s report notes in paragraph 11.2,

“where relevant policies are out of date, then (unless material considerations indicate otherwise) planning permission should be granted unless any adverse impacts of doing so would significantly and demonstrably outweigh the benefits when assessed against the policies in the Framework taken as a whole, or specific policies in the Framework indicate development should be restricted.”

Again, that makes it clear that, without approved policies, the council is letting down the people it should be representing.

The council further weakened the defence of its original decision to refuse permission for the development by Keystone because, as noted in paragraph 12 of the Department’s letter, it had already accepted the developer’s offer of a financial contribution to mitigate highway congestion. That paragraph states:

“The Secretary of State notes that the Highway Authority has confirmed that the proposed financial contribution would enable it to satisfactorily mitigate the increased congestion that the construction of the new dwellings would otherwise cause. He therefore agrees with the Inspector that there would be no adverse impact in this respect to weigh against the proposal”.

In its overall conclusions, the letter from the DCLG states:

“Parties are agreed that the local planning authority does not have a 5 year supply of housing and, in accordance with paragraph 215 of the Framework, the Secretary of State concludes that full weight can no longer be given to the relevant housing supply policies of the development plan.”

I return to the inspector’s conclusions, beginning at paragraph 11.7, which states:

“The Council has consistently viewed the regeneration of the district’s urban areas as one of its priorities, and to this end has identified a number of previously developed (‘brownfield’) sites in urban areas, many of which are presently occupied by old or unwanted buildings which contribute little or nothing to the surrounding area.”

At this point, I should mention that the former Bird’s Eye factory site in Ladysmith road is the one site that is always drawn to my attention as being in urgent need of redevelopment.

The paragraph continues:

“Some of these sites were allocated for residential development in the current Local Plan, and some have been granted planning permission for housing. That is consistent with the NPPF’s approach of encouraging the effective use of such land, but as is evident from the number of them which have the benefit of an allocation and/or planning permission yet still remain undeveloped, provides no guarantee that housing will actually be delivered on those sites.”

Paragraph 11.8 states:

“In the circumstances, I can understand the Council’s concern to ensure that nothing should discourage the re-development of these urban brownfield sites, but am not persuaded by its argument that permitting the residential development of the appeal site would necessarily have that unwanted effect. I have not been provided with any substantive evidence that the delivery of housing on greenfield sites prejudices the delivery of housing on brownfield sites. The Council contends that the situation speaks for itself, but it seems to me that it would be over-simplistic to assume that a housebuilder would always choose a greenfield site over a brownfield site. Much will depend on the specific circumstances of each site, and the capabilities, preferences and financial arrangements of each developer. Some may favour a greenfield site, to avoid the need to demolish existing unwanted buildings: some may favour a brownfield site, to avoid the need to lay electric, gas, water and sewage connections.”

Paragraph 11.9 states:

“Further, in the context of the acknowledged shortfall in the district’s housing provision, I see no reason why housing permitted on greenfield sites in order to redress that shortfall should in any way affect the housing on brownfield sites that has already been assessed by the Council as deliverable within the next 5 years. There is no indication that the assessment of deliverability was based on the premise that no other housing sites would come forward.”

Paragraph 11.10 says:

“As to the brownfield sites assessed by the Council as not being capable of delivering housing within the next 5 years, again I see no reason to suppose that situation would alter as a result of the residential development of the appeal site. The deliverability of such sites is far more likely to be affected by the market conditions and housing need that exist five years hence. The Council does not seek to argue that it would be right to countenance an under-provision of housing for the district, in the hope that such under-provision would incentivise the earlier regeneration of these sites. There is no evidence at all that such an approach might work, and it would in any event conflict with the NPPF’s clear objective ‘to boost significantly the supply of housing’ by requiring Councils to make provision for a five-year supply of deliverable housing sites.”

Paragraph 11.11 states:

“Taking all of this into account, I find no convincing evidence to support the Council’s assertion that there must be a connection between the non-delivery of a large number of brownfield sites and the continued coming forward of greenfield sites. That being the case, I attach only very limited weight to the possibility that permitting the residential development of the appeal site would discourage the regeneration of brownfield sites”

in the district.

Paragraph 11.12 says:

“As discussed above, the fact that the Council cannot demonstrate a five-year supply of deliverable housing sites means that by operation of paragraph 49 of the NPPF, relevant policies for the supply of housing should not be considered up-to-date.”

I stress that those are the words of an inspector, not a partisan politician. Clearly, the construction of 400 new homes will have a considerable impact on the demand for local public services, and as we are aware, those are always under pressure. The proposals provide some additional funding for primary schools, but the local senior school is an academy, and as the chairman of governors, who attended my surgery earlier this month, drew to my attention, it therefore does not qualify for funding through a section 106 agreement. Perhaps the Minister could indicate whether that is a matter for his Department or for the Department for Education and whether consideration is being given to reconsidering that apparent anomaly.

I was a local councillor in North East Lincolnshire for 26 years, and I recognise the difficulties that the council has in attracting high-quality recruits to specialist areas such as planning. It has relied too much in recent years on interim appointments and the situation needs to be resolved as soon as possible. If overdevelopment in Humberston, New Waltham, Waltham, Laceby and the other lovely villages in north-east Lincolnshire continues, it will totally change the character and nature of those villages. My constituents value their local environment and identity, and they do not want to be merged into one urban mass. I hope that the Minister will agree to meet me in the near future to discuss the problems specifically in north-east Lincolnshire.

High Speed Rail (London – West Midlands) Bill

Debate between Andrew Percy and Martin Vickers

Monday 28th April 2014 Commons Chamber

[Martin Vickers]

Well, of course, anything that happens in Yorkshire is second best to what happens in Lincolnshire. I am very happy for a college to be fairly close to northern Lincolnshire, but one there would be ideal. Northern Lincolnshire is a major centre for rail freight; it is the location of the major supplier to the development of the rail network, namely Tata Steel; and the long history of engineering skills in Gainsborough, Lincoln and along the south bank of the Humber makes it an ideal setting.

If HS2 is not built, not only would that demonstrate a loss of confidence in the UK and its ability to invest in infrastructure, but opportunities will be lost. It would diminish the prospect for better rail services, creating more congested roads. An opportunity to spread the tourism appeal of Britain as a whole, rather than just that of central London, will be lost.

[Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con)]

Is not another point for our constituents, who do not enjoy very direct rail services to London, that freeing up capacity on the east coast main line will mean that our region—our bit of East Yorkshire and north Lincolnshire, both of which I am proud to represent—will finally be a little bit better connected to the capital?

[Martin Vickers]

I entirely agree. Along with the hon. Member for Scunthorpe (Nic Dakin), we have battled for better services to London for many years. We are perhaps on the point of achieving that through a separate operator. I agree with my hon. Friend that that point is absolutely vital for our corner of northern Lincolnshire.

This is a project that Britain can afford and that Britain simply cannot afford to abandon. I urge the House to support the Bill.

Flooding

Debate between Andrew Percy and Martin Vickers

Wednesday 26th February 2014 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Percy]

No, I will not give way, because there are others who wish to speak. The flood defence funding issue in my constituency was not related to cancelled schemes. In fact, the improvements that were expected in my area were not scheduled until 2023, and 2028 in many cases. Our flooding was down to a significant tidal surge, which flooded 350 homes in my constituency. As I have said on numerous occasions, that incident coincided with the death of President Nelson Mandela, so it was not top of the six o’clock news. None the less, the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs visited, as did the chairman of the Environment Agency. Eleven communities in my constituency were flooded. Some of them, such as Burringham and Keadby, received warnings, but others in South Ferriby and Reedness did not and many people found themselves in quite dangerous situations with water in some cases as high as their waists, and in one case up to their chests. A number of residents were stuck in their properties because they had not been provided with proper warnings.

We had a public meeting in South Ferriby last Monday night; a couple of hundred people turned out. It was a really well attended and good spirited meeting. One thing residents asked me to take back is the issue of flood warnings. A lot of people are elderly and not on the internet. Large parts of my constituency have internet speeds of about one megabit a fortnight, so it is not possible to get the updates. They did not know a warning had been issued in the morning. We did not have a severe warning, and people were not evacuated. The first thing people knew of the problems was when the Humber started pouring through their front doors, which was a frightening experience for elderly people living in bungalows. No one was there to help them, because the flooding was not expected in that community. Had it not been for the parish council and younger, fitter neighbours, a number of residents could have found themselves in an even more distressing situation.

Following that flooding I visited all the communities, but it took me three days to get round them all, given the scale of the flooding across east Yorkshire and north Lincolnshire. At that time I was struck by the response of the emergency services, and of the Environment Agency, which has come in for a lot of stick, but whose dedicated personnel were out there on the front line—maybe not at the time that some residents would have liked them, but in the days afterwards and since then, informing and protecting residents.

I pay a particular tribute to North Lincs council. The flooding happened on the Thursday evening. From the Friday and the Saturday, the council worked with me and my hon. Friend the Member for Cleethorpes (Martin Vickers) on a package of support, which was put in place that Monday morning, of £300 to every home that was flooded and a £1,000 interest-free loan to every resident who had been flooded, repayable over five years, starting six months from the date of the flooding. That package was available and was delivered to people by the end of that week. So within a week they knew the council was there to support them.

I want to say a little about the history of flooding in our area. We know we are likely to flood. I live next to one of our tidal rivers. On 5 December it was about 6 feet higher than my front room; fortunately it did not overtop, but only by an inch or two. We know we live in an area that was drained by Cornelius Vermuyden in the 17th century. It is former marshland. We know the risks we face. That does not mean that we should be written off.

[Martin Vickers]

Will my hon. Friend give way?

[Andrew Percy]

I give way to my honourable neighbour, my hon. Friend the Member for Cleethorpes, who did so much to support his communities.

--- Later in debate ---

[Martin Vickers]

Does my hon. Friend agree that local knowledge is particularly important in forecasting, and that it would be very useful if we brought the farmers and councillors who serve on drainage boards into the equation a little sooner?

[Andrew Percy]

That is absolutely correct. It ties in with the point I am making, which is that in 2007 the river catchment plans for the Trent, the Ouse and the Aire were all issued, and those plans at that time suggested reducing defences. That was at the time of the last Labour Government. I, as a local councillor and a prospective parliamentary candidate, did not go around saying that the Labour Government wanted to flood our areas, but the catchment flood plans that we faced at that time would have reduced our defences substantially. We fought them very hard. Largely because of the information and skill of the drainage boards and local farmers, we were able to disprove the Environment Agency’s argument for its proposal and to win a change in the policy, so now our defences will be maintained and improved in line with rising sea levels.

That is all now subsumed by the River Humber flood strategy. This is where we really need some action. That strategy was adopted in 2008 for the Humber. It highlights large parts of my constituency as in need of improved defences, but at some time in the future—15 years hence. That is not good enough, bearing in mind what we have seen in the past few weeks. We need the funding for that, and we need to know what that strategy actually means. At a public meeting in South Ferriby, and in the previous public meeting we held at Reedness, residents were saying, “It is fine for our areas to have been identified in 2008 as needing improvement, but it is not good enough for us not to know when that will happen.” That is why I am pleased that last night the Conservative group on North Lincs council passed a budget that is bringing forward £5 million of funding, which we hope will be unlock that other funding.

What we want from Ministers now is leadership. Where money has been made available to unlock that match funding, as it has from North Lincs council—voted against by the Labour group, it must be said—we want Ministers to ensure that that match funding is unlocked now, not at a time convenient to the EA. Two and a half million pounds of that funding is scheduled for this financial year, specifically for defences on the Humber and the Trent, and the remainder in the forthcoming years. My plea to Ministers would be to ensure that where that match funding is being offered, the EA’s hand is snapped off and we can bring forward this investment as quickly as possible. I will end there, because I understand that there is pressure on time.

Rail Disruption (Cleethorpes and Doncaster)

Debate between Andrew Percy and Martin Vickers

Wednesday 20th March 2013 Westminster Hall

[Martin Vickers]

I thank the Minister for that and I look forward to hearing from the agency. It is important that it is able to confirm what, if any, responsibility it had before the incident and whether it discharged those responsibilities in the proper manner. I do not want to indulge in scare stories, but a train could have been on that section of track when the incident took place. I hope that the matter is taken extremely seriously.

[Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this debate. He has made a fantastic case for all our constituents and commuters on the south bank of the Humber, but my constituency will experience a double whammy in that the Hull, Goole and Doncaster line is also affected. I had to use the bus replacement this week. [Interruption.] Will my hon. Friend confirm that there is a risk of a triple whammy coming our way, because there will be closures on the Hull, Selby and Doncaster line in a few weeks, and we need an assurance from the Minister that that will not be allowed to happen until the works have been completed?

[Martin Vickers]

My hon. Friend makes an extremely important point. I know that both his constituency and other constituencies on the north bank of the Humber are extremely concerned that they may be effectively cut off from the rail network.

Humber Bridge Bill

Debate between Andrew Percy and Martin Vickers

Tuesday 26th February 2013 Commons Chamber

[Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to speak in the debate. It has been a long time coming in many ways and I thank the Minister for his résumé and for his efforts. I also thank the former Secretary of State, my right hon. Friend the Member for Putney (Justine Greening), who, right from the start, saw the area’s potential and the impact the bridge tolls were having on the local economy. Like my colleagues, I thank them for that. As the right hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle (Alan Johnson) said, we build bridges to unite people. We did not quite succeed in that respect, but we have now shown that united action by politicians of all colours on both sides of the river can achieve something. I hope that we will push forward with other enterprises for the Humber. It is a great economic area with fantastic potential, and I am sure that the Bill will seal the deal.

My hon. Friend the Member for Brigg and Goole (Andrew Percy) said that I was eight or nine when the original Humber Bridge Bill was first introduced. Sadly, that is the case. I am also one of the campaigners of longest standing. I was looking it up; in 1986 I spoke in a debate in the former Grimsby borough council to demand abolition of, or a reduction in, the tolls.

What has been said of the business potential of the local economy is particularly important. My area, especially around Immingham docks, is a major centre for the haulage industry and it has greatly benefited from the changes. But in many ways it is the personal cases that emphasise the point. People on the south bank have to travel to Hull for cancer treatment and treatment for other serious illnesses, and the tolls have been a particular burden on the families of many people whom I represent and those in neighbouring constituencies. Unless we get this Bill on the books, the board cannot reduce the tolls for those seeking treatment, and it is important that we get it as soon as possible.

[Andrew Percy]

My hon. Friend has reminded me of Humber Action Against Tolls and in particular Jenny Walton, who has struggled with a terrible illness and has been on the receiving end of the high tolls. She should get a lot of credit for the work she has done.

[Martin Vickers]

My hon. Friend has stolen my words. I was going to mention Jenny and the great work that she has done.

Some colleagues may express fears about the powers of the board. They need to remember that four out of six members of the board will now, in effect, be directly elected and accountable to their local communities, and that will be a restraint. Only if you live in the area do you appreciate how big an issue this is locally. Public opinion will ensure that the board drives tolls down to their absolute minimum not only in the foreseeable future but beyond that. It has already announced that it can maintain tolls at the present level for another three years.

Humber Economy (Fiscal Support)

Debate between Andrew Percy and Martin Vickers

Tuesday 27th November 2012 Westminster Hall

[Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Amess. I pay tribute to the right hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle (Alan Johnson) for securing the debate. As my hon. Friend the Member for Cleethorpes (Martin Vickers) stated, he and I tried to get such a debate, so this is another example of cross-party working.

I apologise for missing the first three minutes of the speech of the right hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle. He started and ended with Andrew Marvell, which reminded me of walking past Marrell’s statue every day during my schooldays. We did not pay much tribute to him then, because his left hand was broken; it was restored only in 1999. Marvell was important to us, but not enough to have that fixed for a couple of decades.

This is an important debate in which I have a couple of asks of the Minister as well as some words of thanks. I take on board the point of the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Diana Johnson) about not wanting to talk down the Humber; we all have a responsibility not to talk it down, because this region is not just struggling today. Like my hon. Friend the Member for Cleethorpes, I was born and bred in the Humber. My family has lived on both sides of the river for the past couple of centuries; we do not like to move far. [Interruption.] Nowhere too far anyway. I feel very invested in the region and also very proud of it; it is a fantastic region. None the less, it is a region that has struggled not just in the last two or three years but over the past few decades, due partly to the fall-off of the fishing industry and other industries. People forget that there used to be an awful lot of foundries in Hull. My dad worked in one, but he lost his job when it closed its doors in the early ’90s. There has been a lot of change over the past few decades in the profile of our local economy to which we have not responded particularly well. Even today, we are still faced with many of the challenges that go back a number of decades.

It is important to remember that there are a lot of positives in our region, and some of them are happening as we speak today. I want to be positive about the things that have happened already before making my requests of the Government. The hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull North mentioned the caravan tax. Sadly, it is a measure of all Governments that they sometimes do things that are not good for our local area; we are not alone in doing that. However, the first thing that our Government did when they came to power was to scrap the ports tax, which would have had a similar effect on our local economy as the caravan tax, and I thank them for that. As a result, 62 businesses in Hull, 59 businesses in Goole and 44 businesses in Immingham have been protected to the tune of about £30 million.

Back in the 1980s, the biggest land grant in the history of this country was given to Hull for the Victoria dock by the Thatcher Government, and of course we had the housing action trust money in the early 1990s. Anyone who was around at the time will remember how that funding was used for the mass regeneration of places such as the North Hull estate. We have done well in the past, and also done well locally. For example, we secured £150 million for the Humber bridge. Again, that was something that had never been delivered before and was due, in part, to the strong cross-party campaign from all of us in the region. The number of vehicles crossing the Humber has now increased significantly. On Saturday, I was in the Brigg tourist information centre, asking the staff about how things were going since the tolls came down. They showed me the postcode list; there were not just the DN postcodes from the south bank but many HU postcodes. The investment is having a real impact on tourism, which the hon. Lady mentioned.

We are also grateful for the infrastructure funding that we have received. The A164 is important for connectivity from the Humber bridge to Beverley. Similarly, the announcement of the funding for the A160 is welcome. I am keen to support work on the A63, which is some miles from my constituency. When an MP who does not have a constituency interest in a project comes and demands the money for it, perhaps their view should carry a little more weight. Infrastructure on to the A63 is key to unlocking the docks, which would have a huge impact on our whole economy. It is odd to argue for a road scheme that is outside one’s constituency, but we do so because we can all see the bigger picture in the Humber. I urge the Government to do everything they can on that road, because it a problem that has plagued the city, the docks and the local economy for a very long time.

We have had terrible news recently with regard to job losses. Like my hon. Friend the Member for Cleethorpes, I pay tribute to Jobcentre Plus and the local councils, which have responded positively to the situation. I met Jobcentre Plus last week to talk about Scunthorpe and Lloyds TSB, and was informed that the majority of people who had lost their jobs there have now found alternative employment, thanks to the hard work not only of those people but of Jobcentre Plus staff.

We are also grateful for the regional growth funding in both east Yorkshire and northern Lincolnshire. To date, the funding in northern Lincolnshire has created 344 jobs and is well on target to create 500 jobs, and only about half of that money has been allocated. I pay tribute to the councils that have worked so hard on that matter and the businesses that have come forward.

Northern Lincolnshire has had a 68% increase in apprenticeships, and I pay tribute to the council for investing significant resources into creating apprenticeships within its authority and for trying to identify other local businesses to take on apprentices.

I briefly want to echo the concerns that have been raised about renewable energy. I make no bones about my position on onshore wind, which is a huge concern to my constituents, but on offshore wind, there is complete and utter unanimity in our region about its potential and about our support for it. My hon. Friend the Member for Cleethorpes and I recently wrote to the Prime Minister urging some consistency on the matter. I was heartened by the response that we received:

“I will continue to voice my strong commitment to the growth of the low-carbon sector…and agree that Government has to continue to act coherently and consistently to put green growth at the top of its priorities.”

Those are excellent words; we now want action. Offshore wind is hugely important to our region. We can develop the skills base to support that sector, which will help not only our region but UK plc.

I have a couple of asks of the Minister in relation to biofuels and bioethanol production. We have two plants in the Humber; one planned on the south bank and one on the north bank. There is uncertainty over whether the Government are committed to bioethanol. The fact is we must have it in our fuel, and at the moment it is coming from Germany or elsewhere. We should be growing that industry here, so I make a call for as much support as possible.

On biomass, places such as Drax and Eggborough, on the edge of my constituency, have coal-fired power stations that wish to co-fire with biomass. Again, uncertainty exists. I met representatives in Eggborough who were concerned about the subsidy system. They have asked us to raise contracts for difference, which the Minister, I am sure, will be fully apprised of, so I will not give him a great deal more detail—obviously, I am not saying that because I do not fully understand it. None the less, it is something the sector is keen to unlock for co-firing biomass. I will end now because I have had my time.

[Martin Vickers]

Not yet.

[Andrew Percy]

Oh, I am not at the end yet. My hon. Friend is meant to pass me a note when I am.

We are trying to unlock significant European regional development fund money for the Capitol Park project in Goole, which will bring thousands of jobs to the logistics sector in the region. I am heavily involved in that project at the moment, and I seek an assurance from the Minister that, if we do not progress that matter in the next couple of days, he will add his considerable weight to solving some of the issues. The development is really important for our local area.

I end by saying that more needs to be done, especially on broadband delivery UK funding, which is particularly important to many of our small and medium-sized enterprises, and on the A63. Furthermore, we must have certainty on offshore wind and renewable energy for our region.

Leeds Children’s Heart Surgery Unit

Debate between Andrew Percy and Martin Vickers

Tuesday 30th October 2012 Westminster Hall

[Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to take part in a debate under your chairmanship again, Mr Hollobone. I, too, congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Pudsey (Stuart Andrew). This is something of an action replay, not only for you, Mr Hollobone—you were in the Chair last week for the debate on Glenfield hospital in Leicester—but for the Minister. I apologise to her that some of the points that I am going to press her on now are identical to those that I raised last week. One is the point about distance.

It is noticeable that three out of the four representatives from northern Lincolnshire are here to take part in the debate. We are the remotest part of the area served by the hospital. That does not just present problems for people visiting. As we have heard in previous debates and meetings, getting babies to a unit has actually made the difference between life and death, and that cannot be ignored. In the Cleethorpes area, there are a large number of parents and grandparents whose children have received treatment here. We held a public meeting in July and the strength of opinion was evident.

In last week’s debate on the Leicester unit I was slightly disappointed by the Minister’s response. I appreciate that she is walking a tightrope, but she is noted for being an independent voice. She showed signs of being sucked into the departmental bureaucratic nonsense that we often hear, but I am sure she will rectify that in half an hour’s time. Commenting in her reply on something that I said, she made the perfectly valid point that in cases of the kind that we are considering we want

“fewer, but much bigger units.”—[Official Report, 22 October 2012; Vol. 551, c. 186WH.]

That is the opinion of some experts, but equally, of course, other experts disagree. If we are to be ruled by expert opinion, there are two possibilities. One is that we pack up and go home, because we are superfluous. The other is that because experts always disagree, someone democratically accountable is needed to arbitrate between them. My hon. Friend the Member for Brigg and Goole (Andrew Percy) wishes to intervene, as usual.

[Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con)]

I want to intervene to defend the Minister. My hon. Friend is entirely right about the geographical problems in our area; but even if we accept the argument that we need bigger units, is not the core issue the fact that the population—the patient base—is in our region, not in the north-east? If we must go along this line—let us assume that we must—we should move the doctors to where the patients are, not the other way around.

[Martin Vickers]

As usual, my hon. Friend and neighbour is correct. Because of the remoteness and so on, the assumption that all patients in northern Lincolnshire will transfer to Newcastle will simply not be borne out. They will choose alternatives and I suggest that most will gravitate south. Therefore the Newcastle target of 403 will not be achieved.

There are expert opinions on both sides of the argument. The significant point is that the parents and grandparents of the children who receive the treatment are not convinced about the alternatives, because they have seen surgeons and other experts in Leeds performing miracles on their children with modern medical technology. That is their doubt: they do not have confidence in the alternatives when they have seen the Leeds centre of excellence in action.

My hon. Friend the Member for Pudsey stole a line from me because I too was going to quote the point that my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Harborough (Sir Edward Garnier) made in last week’s debate. I will take another line from his speech:

“The Secretary of State has the levers of power in this question and he must pull them—he must exercise them”.—[Official Report, 22 October 2012; Vol. 551, c. 188WH.]

That is what we expect. We do not want the question shuffled off to a panel of experts, with automatic acceptance of what they say. Different experts come up with different decisions.

Time is pressing. In Leeds we have a centre of excellence. It deserves our support, and already has the support of those we represent. I am sure that the Minister and the Secretary of State would not want to be responsible for destroying it.

Broadband (East Yorkshire and North Lincolnshire)

Debate between Andrew Percy and Martin Vickers

Monday 10th September 2012 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Percy]

I agree entirely, and it comes, of course, without all the infrastructure problems. I have a lot of respect for BT and have worked with it on a number of issues, but the roll-out programme is very BT-centric, and we need to consider broadening that. As one wireless provider said to me, “It’s not the entire solution, but it can bring rapid deployment at reasonably little cost”, which would help to justify, particularly in marginal areas, the demand for those areas being commercially fibred—if that is the term. BT is involved in that through its trialling of white space wireless technology. This has to be part of the solution. I am told that in many parts of the world—eastern Europe and the US, for example—superfast wireless broadband is very much part of the mix. We want that mix here. I want wireless broadband rolled out as far as possible by 2015.

[Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this debate. He makes a powerful case for our area and will know that the border between his constituency and mine is a particular blackspot. Ironically, Humberside international airport is located in the area around the villages of Kirmington and Croxton. We all recognise the importance of connectivity, both physically and through the broadband network, and he is right that it is vital that this is not entirely an O₂ job and that we look to other providers. As we know, it is competition that makes the difference.

[Andrew Percy]

Of course, my hon. Friend meant BT.

--- Later in debate ---

[Martin Vickers]

Yes, I did.

[Andrew Percy]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. One of the communities on our boundary, South Ferriby, has sourced a wireless solution for the village from one of the providers I mentioned earlier. It has decided to get on and do it itself.

I want to turn to the North Lincolnshire delivery plan. It is good news that in our area BT has commercially fibred the Brigg exchange, while it has recently been announced that the Scunthorpe exchange, which my hon. Friend the Member for Scunthorpe and I share, will be upgraded. Across most of north Lincolnshire, however, the situation will remain unchanged. The broadband delivery plan bid is for £12 million, of which £2.62 million is being provided by Broadband Delivery UK and the rest match funded by the European regional development fund—which, of course, is just British taxpayers’ money by another means and with a big chunk taken out—and by the council and the private sector.

I want to make the case to the Minister on why we must be moved up the list of priorities. North Lincolnshire is a particularly high priority owing to the accessibility and relative compactness of northern Lincolnshire as a rural area. It is also very flat in large parts, which makes roll-out much simpler, and has good ground conditions, making cable laying inexpensive. I am more than happy for him to visit north Lincolnshire, if he wants, to see how easy it is to dig up our land.

Localism Bill

Debate between Andrew Percy and Martin Vickers

Monday 7th November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con)]

I rise to speak about the referendum issue. Members will note that I am one of the signatories to the amendment tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Richmond Park (Zac Goldsmith).

I support the principle of referendums and believe that they are a natural development of our democratic process. Having spent many years as a local councillor fighting against centralisation, I warmly welcome the moves that the Government are making, but they could go further. To give an example, I sponsored and secured a referendum in one ward of my unitary authority to abolish a town council. I did so because there was clear opposition to a council that was charging in excess of £100 per household for band A properties. There was an overwhelming vote to abolish that council. Unfortunately, the referendum was not binding, because it was held under the Local Government Act 2003, to which the Minister referred. The unitary council of North East Lincolnshire subsequently overturned the referendum result.

[Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con)]

Outrageous.

[Martin Vickers]

I agree, it was outrageous that a decision of the electorate that had been arrived at democratically through the ballot box should be overturned by a local authority. Having granted the referendum initially, it should have reversed the result, if that was its wish, only through another referendum.

[Andrew Percy]

To assist my hon. Friend in his point, I add that in my constituency the people of Old Goole are seeking to separate from Goole and form their own parish council. There is a huge argument going on, and the one way in which it could be resolved is through a binding referendum.

[Martin Vickers]

Absolutely. My hon. Friend makes an extremely valid point, and I am sure Members of all parties can think of such examples.

The hon. Member for Warrington North (Helen Jones) made a valid point about premises that cater for people with mental health difficulties. I accept that local authorities have very difficult decisions to make in such cases. I can recall there being such a decision in my ward six or seven years ago, and if a referendum had been taken in the street in question there would certainly have been an overwhelming vote against such an establishment. However, it would be open to local authorities, as it is under the 2003 Act, to determine the arrangements for a referendum —whether it should be held in a ward or within the authority as a whole. There are ways of broadening the electoral base to cover such circumstances.

--- Later in debate ---

[Martin Vickers]

My hon. Friend makes a very interesting point, and my response is obvious—I am arguing in favour of binding referendums, so I believe that such a referendum would have to be binding. There could be turnout—

[Andrew Percy]

Thresholds.

[Martin Vickers]

That is the word I am looking for; I thank my hon. Friend. Such referendums could therefore easily be accommodated.

Members should appreciate that there is growing apathy and disenchantment with our whole political process. The Government have tried to respond to that through measures in the Bill, through e-petitions and so on, but the only way we can really give people power is by giving them a clear-cut vote on issues. Although my hon. Friend the Member for Richmond Park said that he would not press his amendment, I hope that it will spur the Government on to further developments in the months and years to come.

National Planning Policy Framework

Debate between Andrew Percy and Martin Vickers

Thursday 20th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[Martin Vickers]

I entirely agree, but none of the measures for which I am arguing would take power away from local people. I spent most of my quarter of a century as a councillor bemoaning the fact that central Government were telling us to do this, that and the other, and not allowing us to note what local people were saying. I believe that the system that is evolving will feature widespread consultation from the bottom up, and—I hope—the making of final decisions by elected and accountable local authorities rather than distant planning inspectors. The more we are able to ensure that decisions are made locally, the more communities will be shaped in a manner of which local people approve.

On the importance of maintaining the vitality of town centres, as was mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for The Cotswolds (Geoffrey Clifton-Brown), shopping habits have changed and continue to change. It is a fact, regrettable in many ways, that we shall need fewer shop units in the coming years. Let me give an example from my constituency. The entrance to Cleethorpes, that beautiful seaside resort on the east coast, is to some extent blighted by a drive through an area containing parade after parade of shops, many of which are empty. Many others serve local needs, but the fact remains that we need fewer of them, and we certainly need policies that will allow those areas to regenerate themselves. I was pleased to note that the NPPF mentioned the need to remove “barriers to investment”. That is one of the key developments that I hope will result from the implementation of the Government’s plans.

Reference has been made to the need to speed up the system. Local plans and development frameworks take an age to proceed from A to Z. Reference has also been made to consultation. Yes, we need consultation, because we need that bottom-up feedback from local people, but we must recognise that plans need to be determined quickly. Along with my hon. Friend the Member for Brigg and Goole (Andrew Percy), who represents a neighbouring constituency, I have spent much time over the past year trying to overcome the barriers to a major development in our area, caused partly by the fact that the overall process does not recognise the commercial pressures on potential investors to meet needs in the face of competing areas and, in some instances, competing countries. Speed is also essential for those who oppose developments. A week or so ago we debated High Speed 2 and the possibility that areas could be blighted for many years while waiting for decisions to be taken. Both sides need urgency, therefore.

The transition period is a concern, and I hope the Minister will spell out how areas without local plans in place will be dealt with. Many Members have also asked about the definition of sustainable. It is one of those warm and cuddly words that we are all supposed to hug to ourselves, because none of us wants our local papers to report that we support unsustainable development or want an unsustainable economy. We do need a proper definition of sustainable, however, and I ask the Minister to supply one.

[Andrew Percy]

We should pay tribute to those councillors who are leading on sustainability and community-led plans. As my hon. Friend knows, in our area, North Lincolnshire council—the only council to pass from Labour control to Tory control in May—has already established proper mechanisms to get communities up and running and to get community plans written up so we have them in place for when this transition happens. We should pay tribute to our hard-working councillors.

[Martin Vickers]

My hon. Friend, who is rapidly becoming the intervener-in-chief on the Government Benches, makes a welcome contribution to the debate, and I heartily support what he says, of course.

Despite the few caveats I have mentioned, I wholeheartedly support what the Government are doing, and the sooner they get on with it, the better.