Ukraine: 1,000 Days

Andrew Murrison Excerpts

Tuesday 19th November 2024 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lammy]

I thank my hon. Friend for his question. I say to the British people that they should take heart from the fact that this Parliament is speaking with one voice. If we as a country do all that we can to ensure that, militarily and economically, Ukraine can get through 2025, and if we are able to push and nudge our allies to ensure that we are in that place, then things will get a hell of a lot tougher for our Russian opponents, and we should take heart from that. In thinking about the winter, we should continue to do all that we can to send equipment over to Ukraine and to support Ukrainians in this country. It is tough for the people in Ukraine at this time. Some are still leaving the country, for obvious reasons. All of our efforts are not in vain—they are hugely, hugely important, and I am hugely, hugely grateful.

[Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con)]

Despite the Foreign Secretary’s congratulatory assessment, the fact remains that Russia is running rings around western sanctions and that it is using black and grey fleets to threaten the global maritime order. I have heard nothing from the Foreign Secretary about what he intends to do about that. Can he enlighten us?

[Mr Lammy]

I do not take issue with the right hon. Gentleman saying that there are still gaps and holes, and that Putin has been very clever in attempting to get around the sanctions that I put in place. But on 17 October we sanctioned a further 18 oil tankers in the Russian shadow fleet, bringing the total number to 43, and in the margins of the European Political Community summit at Blenheim Palace, we led the call for action on tackling the shadow fleet, which has now been endorsed by 46 countries in the European Union. Therefore, the suggestion that we are doing nothing does not hold. We will also continue to address the circumvention of sanctions, which includes highlighting the risk to partners such as Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Turkey and the United Arab Emirates and supporting their efforts to continue to tackle the problem.

Chagos Islands

Andrew Murrison Excerpts

Wednesday 13th November 2024 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Doughty]

Let me first thank my hon. Friend for his service for our country and its national security—and, indeed, thank all new Members who have served in our armed forces. I completely agree with his comments: we are indeed protecting our national security and putting matters on a secure footing

[Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con)]

Alexander Downer, a former Australian Foreign Minister, a former high commissioner to this country, a former United Nations special adviser on Cyprus and a good friend of this country, says that the surrender of the Chagos Islands is

“symptomatic of a country that no longer has geopolitical perspective.”

What is the Minister’s response to Mr Downer’s remarks, and does he agree with his comment that the last Labour Government were prepared to capitulate on the two Cypriot sovereign base areas, Dhekelia and Akrotiri? Who would have thought it? Is not the Chagos surrender just same old Labour—strong on post-colonial guilt and weak on safety, security and stability?

[Stephen Doughty]

I do not recognise those comments in the slightest, not least because we have repeatedly made clear our commitment to our overseas territories: to the Falklands, to Gibraltar, and to the sovereign base areas in Cyprus, which, as the right hon. Gentleman well knows, are protected under the 1960 treaty. I have made statements to that effect. We are clear about our support for those territories and their importance to us. This is not about handing something over; it is about Diego Garcia being on a secure footing, with our military base and our presence secure for the future.

Western Sahara

Andrew Murrison Excerpts

Wednesday 30th October 2024 Commons Chamber

[Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con)]

I am grateful for this opportunity to raise the issue of the Government’s attitude to Western Sahara. For transparency, I am as of this morning co-chair of the all-party parliamentary group on Morocco, a distinction I share with the hon. Member for Leeds North East (Fabian Hamilton). I have also enjoyed the kind hospitality of the Moroccan ambassador and the Moroccan Government, which has been duly registered where appropriate. I have a significant Moroccan community in my constituency, of which I am very proud. I am a former trade envoy to Morocco. I am also an ardent admirer of all things Moroccan and have done everything I can in my time here to bring the two kingdoms closer together.

The UK’s outlier position on the status of Morocco’s possession of Western Sahara is the sheet anchor in the UK-Moroccan relationship. That relationship goes back to the 13th century. History matters, particularly in an ancient country such as Morocco. Possession of Western Sahara long predates colonisation by France and Spain and is for Moroccans an existential issue. Any UK Government that seek to partner with Morocco to make the UK more secure in every sense and to grow the economy just cannot afford to allow official inertia to obstruct progress and change. I fear that it is official intransigence that has meant that the UK now finds itself an outlier in international opinion on this matter—in the company, I regret to say, of feral states such as Russia and Iran.

Last month, in response to my written parliamentary question on the UK’s position on Western Sahara, the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Affairs, the hon. Member for Lincoln (Hamish Falconer), regurgitated the same response that Sir Humphrey drafted for me when I was doing his job:

“Successive UK governments have regarded the status of the Western Sahara as undetermined.”

If the UK position was inadequate when I was Minister for North Africa and the Middle East, recent developments have made it untenable and incompatible with the UK’s national interest. I hope to persuade the Minister this evening to push back on the lines he is about to read out. In the national interest, and in the interest of our relationship with our good friend the Kingdom of Morocco, I want him to be more successful than I was in resisting the institutional torpor he will have experienced during his first few months in his rather lovely office in King Charles Street, which I miss very much indeed.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

First, I commend the right hon. Gentleman for all he is doing in this debate tonight and for all he has done in the past. It is recognised by a great many people, and we thank him for it. Does he agree that the reason why the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office guidance advises against travel to areas such as Western Sahara underlines the help that the people who live there need? Does he also agree that, rather than simply warning against travel, the Government should focus on whether any steps can be taken to help the tens of thousands of people in refugee camps who have no hope at all for the future?

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Murrison]

Yes, the hon. Gentleman is absolutely correct. Of course, the UK does that through the United Nations and the Tindouf camps, but he makes a good point about Foreign Office advice to people seeking to travel to Western Sahara. There is very real potential for Western Sahara to be a vacuum in which the ill-disposed can do what they will. We cannot allow that space to be ungoverned. We need to ensure that there is a jurisdiction there to bring order and ensure that the ill-inclined are not a threat to Morocco, Western Sahara, the wider region and, frankly, ourselves.

The anaemic UK official line has relied on two arguments for doing nothing: first, that recognising Moroccan sovereignty would, in some mysterious way, challenge our sovereignty over the remaining British overseas territories, and secondly, that supporting the Moroccan autonomy plan would upset Algeria, which has a strained relationship with Morocco and supports the Polisario Front’s call for independence for Western Sahara.

There is no evidence that recognising Moroccan sovereignty over Western Sahara would compromise our wider regional equities in any significant way. We know this because peer nations that have been much more forward-leaning on Moroccan sovereignty have not suffered a backlash from a pragmatic Algiers. The only exception is France, but the Franco-Algerian relationship has been toxic before and since independence in 1962, so it in no way compares with our own relationship or with that of other countries seeking a positive future with both Algiers and Rabat.

I appreciate the Labour party’s difficulty in relation to the Polisario Front. Under previous management, Labour supported the hard-left Polisario Front and would never have accepted the Moroccan autonomy plan, but the Prime Minister has invested much time and political capital in putting as much distance as possible between himself and his predecessor. He might therefore see this as an opportunity.

What would changing our line to match our peers do to the UK’s case for holding on to its remaining overseas territories? The answer lies in the unforced surrender of the Chagos islands, which was a decision of infinitely greater consequence than what I propose would ever be.

In any event, Cambridge professor of international law Marc Weller, in his opinion of April 2024, is crystal clear:

“There are no points where endorsing the position of Morocco on which its autonomy proposal is based would in any sense distract from the UK position concerning title to the Falkland Islands.”

What about Argentina, whose mission to turn the Falkland Islands into the Malvinas has been refuelled by the Foreign Secretary’s Chagos capitulation? Well, it has said:

“The Sahara is indubitably Moroccan.”

Much of South America also appears to support the autonomy plan or has recanted its previous support for Saharan independence.

[Dr Zubir Ahmed (Glasgow South West) (Lab)]

Can the right hon. Gentleman adumbrate how the uninhabited Chagos islands are equivalent, in any way, shape or form, to the Falkland Islands?

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Murrison]

I most certainly can. It is pretty plain to all who take an interest in these matters that the Argentine Government have their tail up as a result of the capitulation on the Chagos islands. If the hon. Gentleman doubts that the Argentine Government have had a shot in the arm, he should look up the Argentine Foreign Minister’s comments on this subject.

[Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith and Chiswick) (Lab)]

Coming back to Western Sahara, could the right hon. Gentleman explain why the UK Government, or anybody else, should agree to its so-called autonomy within the Moroccan state given Morocco’s appalling human rights record in respect of the Sahrawi people in Western Sahara?

[Dr Murrison]

With respect, the hon. Gentleman is making the perfect the enemy of the good. Morocco stands as a beacon of solidity and decency in a very troubled region—[Interruption.] The hon. Gentleman shakes his head, but I am afraid he is incorrect. I want to see Morocco develop alongside its European partners, and I want it to continue improving its human rights record, just as I want every country around the globe to continue improving its human rights record. He who is without sin may cast the first stone.

We need to have a Western Sahara that makes sense and that is not a vacuum in which the ill-disposed can flourish. That is the basis of the only credible plan on the table, as acknowledged by France, the United States, Germany, the Netherlands and a great swathe of the middle east. All those countries seem to feel that this is the only way forward.

We have a choice, of course. We could do nothing and just let this issue rumble on for decades, and nothing would happen other than that the people in the Tindouf camps would continue to suffer, but I do not think that is right. I want something done about it, and the Moroccan autonomy plan is the only credible plan on the table.

[Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Ind)]

I congratulate the right hon. Member on securing the debate. He must be aware that there are a large number of Sahrawi people living in refugee camps in Algeria, and there have been for a very long time. He must also be aware that since the departure of the Spanish from Western Sahara, the Sahrawi people have never been given a vote on their future and have never been able to decide on decolonisation. He will also be aware that legal opinion is against Moroccan exploitation of the agricultural, mineral and fish resources of Western Sahara. Is it not time that we got in line with the African Union and others who want to see a peaceful approach to the future, which means giving the Sahrawi people the right to their own self-determination to their place in history? That, surely, is what the decolonisation process should be about.

[Dr Murrison]

The right hon. Gentleman knows full well that that would require some sort of referendum or vote. The difficulty has always been defining what the electorate would be. That is why we would be kicking the can down the road for decades and decades. It is an almost insurmountable issue. It seems to France, the United States, Germany, the Netherlands and others that the only practical solution is to get behind the only credible plan on the table, which is the Moroccan autonomy plan.

To put it bluntly, I worry that the FCDO has been rumbled. Its reluctance to follow our north Atlantic peer group in recognising Moroccan sovereignty and the autonomy plan has nothing to do with Algeria or the British Overseas Territories. It is simply the consequence of institutional torpor and a languid, left-liberal indifference to the advancement of our national interests, and it will not do.

Emmanuel Macron is in Morocco on a state visit. In a letter to His Majesty King Mohammed earlier this year, he said:

“The present and future of Western Sahara fall within the framework of Moroccan sovereignty.”

He went on:

“France intends to act consistently with this position at both national and international level.”

Yesterday, President Macron, addressing the Moroccan Parliament, repeated the new French position. The Moroccan press today is reporting that France will be opening a consulate and branch of the Institut Français in Laayoune. It has even identified the building in which it will be housed from next month. The Franco-Moroccan Chamber of Commerce and Industry is already established in Western Sahara. Where are we?

Some 30 countries, primarily African or Arab, already have consulates in Laayoune or Dakhla. France is our friend, but it is also our competition. Changing tack on Western Sahara has been the necessary precondition in taking its relationship with Morocco to the next level. It is hardly surprising that Macron has in his retinue the chief executive officers of 100 French companies.

While the 2019 Morocco-UK association agreement has undoubtedly facilitated bilateral trade, we are nowhere near realising its full potential. The massive Tanger Med port, in the lee of Gibraltar, has been a largely missed opportunity for the UK. Our current stance on Western Sahara now threatens opportunities in Dakhla Atlantic port. Our posture means we cannot, for example, use UK Export Finance in Western Sahara and British International Investment will not engage. If growth for this Government is genuinely beyond the rhetorical, it cannot miss opportunities like Dakhla.

If high-minded Foreign Office officials remain sniffy about grubby trade and commerce, they might be more willing to reflect on the strategic importance of a strong, stable ally at the nexus of the Atlantic and Mediterranean, and what tends to happen in ungoverned spaces, particularly where Russian and Iranian proxies are involved. Happily, the Ministry of Defence has been forging strong working-level relationships with Morocco’s military, properly understanding the growing influence and leadership the country has been applying across the turbulent region in which it sits. The kingdom’s long-standing tradition of tolerance, moderate religious teaching and Sufi influence makes it the foil of extremism and instability in the region and more widely.

The Foreign Office might also eventually wake up to the potential for Morocco to help the Government hit their elusive net zero target and to diversify the grid. On offer is a 4,000 km interconnector sending the power of the Sahara’s reliable sun and wind to south-west England. This it would do through the Xlinks scheme to match in our time the great British engineering triumphs of Brunel and Telford. A country genuinely tooling itself up for growth needs to stop dragging its heels on shovel-ready schemes such as Xlinks.

Morocco, which is shrugging off the colonial yoke, is eager to forge new relationships with European countries with which it has no baggage. That should mean the UK. Morocco wants it to mean the UK, but too often we see the dead hand of British officialdom getting in the way.

Nobody can fail to be impressed by the development that Morocco has made possible in Western Sahara, lifting the condition of the people who live there. Nobody can fail to be impressed by the regional leadership that Rabat has provided in recent years. Nobody can be in any doubt that this ancient kingdom is a welcome bastion of stability, security and decency in Europe’s penumbra, our voisinage.

Even Spain, Morocco’s nearest European neighbour with which it has long-standing territorial issues, has a better line than the UK and, more significantly, one that has evolved in Morocco’s favour from a position of neutrality. It is noteworthy that many of our peers have been on a journey, with language that has typically moved from the Moroccan autonomy plan being a solution, to it being the solution or even the only solution.

This year, Spain has reiterated the revised position that it adopted in April 2022. Thus the autonomy plan is

“the most serious, realistic and credible basis”

for the resolution of the Western Sahara question in its view. Germany has adopted similar language. Then we come to the US. The White House issued this proclamation in 2020:

“The United States affirms, as stated by previous Administrations, its support for Morocco’s autonomy proposal as the only basis for a just and lasting solution to the dispute over the Western Sahara territory. Therefore, as of today, the United States recognises Moroccan sovereignty over the entire Western Sahara territory and reaffirms its support for Morocco’s serious, credible and realistic autonomy proposal as the only basis for a just and lasting solution to the dispute over the Western Sahara territory. The United States believes that an independent Sahrawi state is not a realistic option for resolving the conflict and that genuine autonomy under Moroccan sovereignty is the only feasible solution. We urge the parties to engage in discussions without delay, using Morocco’s autonomy plan as the only framework to negotiate a mutually acceptable solution.”

So, what do I want? I want the UK to stop hiding under the UN’s skirts and to adopt similar language on Western Sahara to our permanent UN Security Council friends, the US and France. If that is too radical for the Foreign Office, we could at least match Spain and Germany. I want the UK to match France toe to toe in establishing cultural and consular presence in Laayoune and Dakhla, facilitating British engagement with commercial opportunities in Western Sahara to our mutual benefit. I want Britain to rekindle one of our oldest diplomatic relationships—more than eight centuries old. What better way to advance plans for a Moroccan state visit to the UK. That is the next obvious step after the association agreement that we signed in Lancaster House. Why has it stalled?

Above all, I want the Foreign Office to wake up to a post-Brexit reality in which we sink or swim depending on our ability to pursue the national interest with pivotally located, like-minded jurisdictions with which we can do business—countries such as Morocco. Or, if the Minister wants, he can swallow the line that he is about to rehearse and leave the fruits of a new era in bilateral relations to our closest continental neighbour.

Be in no doubt that, for Morocco, the UK’s position on Western Sahara is the test of how we value our relationship. As others have evolved their position over time, the UK is out of line and out of date. We will make no further progress until we change it.

China: Human Rights and Sanctions

Andrew Murrison Excerpts

Monday 28th October 2024 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lammy]

Yes, 100%.

[Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con)]

The obstruction of the supply of Taiwanese semiconductors poses an existential threat to the UK economy and our whole way of life. Did the Foreign Secretary come away from his visit reassured that our supply chains are likely to be safe for the foreseeable future? If not, what will he do to mitigate that threat by growing our indigenous capacity?

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Can I gently say that Members should look at me when they are asking questions, not at the Foreign Secretary, as tempting as that is? I want questions to be done in the third person, to keep things calm.

Middle East

Andrew Murrison Excerpts

Monday 28th October 2024 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lammy]

My hon. Friend evokes the hostages, which allows me to put on record our desire to see the UK hostage, Emily Damari, freed. I reassure my hon. Friend that last week at the UN Security Council we convened a meeting on humanitarian access. We issued a statement only yesterday with some colleagues from the G7, including Japan, Germany and South Korea, urging Israel to step back on the UNRWA decision.

[Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con)]

It is important to acknowledge that Israel is often first on the scene when there is a humanitarian crisis internationally, and is generous, even in countries that do not recognise it. However, it must do more to ensure that aid gets into Gaza. Does the Foreign Secretary agree that it is not good enough for a country such as ours simply to be generous, which it is? It must also ensure that its generosity is not diverted into the hands of proxies, particularly Hamas and Hezbollah?

[Mr Lammy]

Yes, the right hon. Gentleman is right about that. We make every effort to ensure that that is not the case. In this circumstance, for a war that has gone on for a year, for the human suffering that is visible in Gaza, for the many children who are out of school and walking around in squalor, it has always been the case that military effort alone would not bring this to an end—only politics can do that. I worry greatly about those young people growing up in the years ahead with vengeance in their heart and, very sadly, a repetition of what we have seen.

Oral Answers to Questions

Andrew Murrison Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd October 2024 Commons Chamber

[Hamish Falconer]

I thank my hon. Friend for her important question. We are absolutely clear that attacks by the IDF on UNIFIL bases must stop, and they must stop immediately. We have called on Israel to that effect. We have called on all parties to uphold their obligations in ensuring the safety and security of UNIFIL personnel. I am sure that many in this House will be looking each day at the reports from UNIFIL on the situation there. As I have said in answer to previous questions, only a political solution consistent with UN Security Council resolution 1701 can restore stability and security. We continue to raise these matters with the Israelis at every level, and I will continue to do so this week.

[Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con)]

UNIFIL and UN Security Council resolution 1701 plainly have not prevented the construction of tunnels and forward attack positions by Iranian proxies south of the Litani river. What discussions will the Foreign Secretary be having with the United Nations to ensure that something is put in place to replace 1701, to strengthen the role of UNIFIL and prevent aggressive action by Hezbollah and its fellow travellers?

[Hamish Falconer]

The first thing we have to do is get Hezbollah back north of the Litani river, consistent with 1701. We should not move away from 1701 until we have made progress under it. I recognise the force of what the right hon. Gentleman says about the concerns about Hezbollah’s presence close to the Israeli border, in breach of UN Security Council resolutions. I condemn the attacks, including the missile strikes that have been happening since 8 October, and all the other violence that Lebanese Hezbollah has been responsible for. It is proscribed under UK law and we hold no truck with it, but the way to get Hezbollah away from the border is 1701, and that is what we have to stick to.

Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and International Committee of the Red Cross (Status) Bill [Lords]

Andrew Murrison Excerpts

2nd reading
Tuesday 22nd October 2024 Commons Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Stephen Doughty)]

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

I put on the record my previous engagements with the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association, on many excellent and informative trips that contributed to our relationships across the Commonwealth, and my past engagement with the International Committee of the Red Cross.

I am delighted to see the Bill back in the House; I hope that there will be wholehearted unity today to ensure that it makes it to Royal Assent. I think this is its fourth iteration. The last time it was debated here was as a private Member’s Bill in the last Session, but sadly it ran out of time before the Dissolution of Parliament for the general election. I pay tribute to the former Member for Basingstoke for her tireless work in introducing that Bill and pushing it through, and to many hon. Members, some of whom I see here today, for their past work with the CPA and the ICRC.

It is critical that both the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and the International Committee of the Red Cross be given their correct status in UK legislation to conduct their work and deliver their objectives while operating in the UK. This will help to guarantee that the CPA remains headquartered in the UK and will ensure that the UK can guarantee the ICRC that the confidential information that it shares as a matter of course with the UK Government is secure and protected.

The UK is deeply committed to the Commonwealth and believes that the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting, which the Foreign Secretary is attending in Samoa, will be an important opportunity to mobilise action on shared interests, including upholding shared Commonwealth values. Those values are embodied by the CPA’s important work to strengthen inclusive and accountable democracy across the Commonwealth. I think back to my own many engagements with the CPA in which I have seen that work at first hand, both when delegations have visited and when I have been part of delegations. The UK values its partnership with the CPA and is proud to support the work of the CPA and its regional branch CPA UK. That includes developing benchmarks and indicators of parliamentary democracy and addressing modern slavery in supply chains and issues such as gender-based violence with Parliaments and parliamentarians across the Commonwealth.

The ICRC is an essential partner in achieving the UK’s global humanitarian objectives. It has a unique mandate from states to uphold the Geneva conventions and works globally to promote international humanitarian law. Its impartiality, neutrality and independence allow it to engage and negotiate with all parties to a conflict and to provide protection and humanitarian assistance to vulnerable populations, often in contexts in which other agencies are unable to operate. I have witnessed its important work, in opposition and in my past career in the humanitarian sector.

Clauses 1 and 2 will therefore provide for both organisations to be treated in a manner comparable to an international organisation, with the associated privileges and immunities. Treatment as an international organisation will allow the CPA to continue to operate fully across the Commonwealth and international fora. It will allow the organisation to participate fully in areas in which it is currently restricted, including signing up to joint international statements and communiqués. That is vital to ensure that the CPA can continue its work to promote democracy and good governance across the Commonwealth. The CPA is currently registered with the Charity Commission for England and Wales and is not an international intergovernmental organisation; it therefore has its own unique constitutional arrangements that reflect its specific international mandate.

Clause 2 is critical to enable the ICRC to operate in the UK in accordance with its international mandate, maintaining its strict adherence to the principles of neutrality, impartiality and independence and its working methods of confidentiality. The ICRC is not an inter-governmental organisation either; it has its own unique and historical international humanitarian mandate to protect the lives and dignity of victims of armed conflict and other situations of violence and to provide them with assistance.

[Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con)]

Nobody doubts the good work of the CPA or the ICRC—we have all seen it as parliamentarians—but does the Minister understand that many of us are a little wary about conferring privileges and immunities by Order in Council after the Bill is passed, since this House is not, in general, in the habit of granting privileges and immunities without scrutiny?

[Stephen Doughty]

The right hon. Gentleman can be assured that these are the appropriate measures. We have determined this way in line with previous discussions on the previous iteration of the Bill. This is the best way to achieve the aims of the Bill in a timely fashion, so that the provisions are put in place for the CPA and the ICRC. I am very happy to write to him further on this matter. The Bill will face scrutiny in Committee, where we will be able to discuss these matters in greater detail.

The provisions in clauses 1 and 2 will ensure that the CPA and the ICRC can be accorded comparable treatment to an international organisation, even when the definition of international organisation in existing legislation is limited to intergovernmental organisations. For the CPA, this treatment will be limited to its core international organs, such as the secretariat. It is not intended that any privileges, immunities or other facilities be extended to any of the national or sub-national branches, so this is a limited provision.

The arrangements for both organisations will detail the day-to-day management of the privileges and immunities granted on a functional needs basis, and other facilities. They will make it clear that there will be no immunity for the CPA’s secretary-general or representatives of the ICRC in respect of damage caused by, for example, a motor vehicle operated or owned by either. The way that the limitations and requirements have been set out in this regard is important.

Clause 2(1)(e) lays out an important confidentiality provision, to protect certain information provided in confidence to His Majesty’s Government by the ICRC from being disclosed in UK civil court proceedings or under any statutory provision or rule of law. As my noble Friend Baroness Chapman stated on Second Reading in the other place, this provision reflects the ICRC’s standard working method of confidentiality, which is designed to protect its staff and operations in active conflict zones. I am sure that Members will understand that publicly disclosing information that the ICRC obtains from confidential dialogue with conflict parties is likely to put at risk its ability to have confidential dialogue with conflict parties, its humanitarian access and, indeed, the security of its staff, and might result in the ICRC restricting the information it shares with the UK.

However, in relation to the concerns that Members have raised in the past, the Bill does not provide an absolute blanket exemption for disclosure requirements for all ICRC communications. Important limitations have been incorporated, such as the exclusion of criminal cases. The Government continue to be committed to respecting the confidentiality of ICRC information as a matter of policy. Past practice has demonstrated the importance of doing so. The Bill is an opportunity to end any uncertainty about the Government’s position and to put this practice on a statutory footing.

I want to turn briefly to clause 3, which is equivalent to section 8 of the International Organisations Act 1968, which allows the Secretary of State to certify questions of fact relating to the status of, or the privileges and immunities conferred on, the organisations. In the context of court proceedings, if a question arises of whether a person is entitled to any privilege or immunity by virtue of an Order in Council made under clauses 1 or 2, such a certification is to be treated as conclusive evidence of those facts for the purposes of proceedings.

Clause 4 details the scope and extent of the Orders in Council that confer privileges and immunities on both organisations under clauses 1 and 2 respectively—this relates to the intervention from the right hon. Member for South West Wiltshire (Dr Murrison). An Order in Council may make different provisions for different cases or persons, and it may also contain consequential, supplementary, incidental, transitional or saving provisions. Clause 4 also provides the enabling power for two important aspects: first, the Order in Council may specify circumstances in which privileges and immunities do not apply, either because of an exception or because they have been waived by the organisation; and secondly, the Order in Council may specify that fiscal reliefs and exemptions are subject to arrangements or conditions imposed by the Secretary of State.

Clause 4 provides that any Order in Council made for these purposes will be subject to the draft affirmative parliamentary procedure, which means that they will require the approval of both Houses before they may have effect. The list of privileges and immunities that may be conferred on both organisations is set out in the schedule to the Bill and has been informed by the International Organisations Act.

Briefly, clause 5 explains that the term “ICRC” means the International Committee of the Red Cross, as given under clause 2(1)(a), and it ensures that the definition of “statutory provision” allows for the treatment of the CPA and the ICRC as international organisations in respect of all relevant primary and secondary legislation, including devolved legislation in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland whenever made.

In conclusion, and to reiterate what was said in the other place, the Bill will give the CPA and the ICRC the correct status in UK legislation to allow both organisations to continue their international operations without unnecessary restriction. The Government have a strong commitment to the Commonwealth. It continues to support our global humanitarian objectives through our work with the ICRC, and the Bill is a true reflection of that. I hope that it will enjoy the wholehearted support of the House as it proceeds swiftly into law. I commend it to the House.

St Helena: UK Immigration

Andrew Murrison Excerpts

Monday 21st October 2024 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Doughty]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. I have repeatedly made it clear, not least in the Falklands and Gibraltar, that we stand by their sovereignty and self-determination and will defend them. Indeed, that goes for the British overseas territories family, and it is a commitment that I will be making in person when the leaders join me at the Joint Ministerial Council in a few weeks’ time.

[Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con)]

Since no migrants have arrived in BIOT since 2022, and given that this agreement lapses after 18 months, what is the problem that the Minister is trying to solve? And given that Rwanda was apparently considered immoral and this is not, is he not simply offering an insult to Kigali?

[Stephen Doughty]

Absolutely not. This is prudent contingency planning. Unfortunately, we inherited a situation from the previous Government where many holes had been left in these very arrangements and where there were significant problems. We are now taking steps to pragmatically address that.

British Indian Ocean Territory: Negotiations

Andrew Murrison Excerpts

Monday 7th October 2024 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lammy]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. He knows, as the whole House knows, that it does not matter who is in the White House or who is in No. 10: for generations, the US and the UK have acted in concert, and the future of Diego Garcia has been central to that. It has been central to the security of the Indo-Pacific and the wider Pacific, and central to global security. The capabilities across our nations are essential. That is why it is so sad to see the Conservative party not living up to where it should be on these crucial issues of national security, which ought not to be partisan.

[Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con)]

My old boss, Admiral Lord West of Spithead, won his Distinguished Service Cross in the Falklands in 1982. As the right hon. Gentleman will know, Lord West is a former Labour security Minister. Why does the right hon. Gentleman think that Lord West is of the view that what he is doing poses a grave security risk to this country and is likely to undermine our position in the Falkland Islands? Will he give a straight answer to my right hon. Friend the Member for New Forest East (Sir Julian Lewis), who asked whether Lord Robertson had been consulted in any way over the decision that the Foreign Secretary has made?

[Mr Lammy]

I urge the right hon. Gentleman to read the remarks of the Chief Minister of the Falkland Islands, and I urge him to consult more widely the defence establishment in this country, which is pleased that an issue that was looking as though it might become very contentious between us and the United States in terms of global national security has now been settled.

International Immunities and Privileges

Andrew Murrison Excerpts

Wednesday 24th July 2024 Commons Chamber

[Catherine West]

The right hon. Gentleman asks an important question. I can confirm that this is the legal framework around which the programme will sit. I can also confirm that the Defence Secretary yesterday met with his Japanese counterparts at the show and they were able to have further interesting discussions. The right hon. Gentleman will be able to continue his questioning when he is surely once again a member of the Defence Committee in the autumn.

[Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con)]

Many jobs in our constituencies depend on contracts with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, which is also interested in GCAP. What conversations have been had with Saudi Arabia, particularly in the light of the procrastination by the Prime Minister on this programme—reaffirmed, if I am honest, by the Minister today in her remarks?

[Catherine West]

The right hon. Member asks an important question, but there has been no procrastination. Within a month of being elected, we have got the legal framework to the House of Commons for a debate, expediting all the important organisational arrangements so that the programme can proceed at pace. He talks of procrastination, and after 14 years, I am sure he is a master of procrastination as part of the last Government.

The privileges and immunities conferred on agency personnel and representatives are not for their personal advantage, but to ensure complete independence in the exercise of their functions in connection with GCAP. To be clear, agency personnel have no personal immunity if they commit a crime and there is a clear carve-out ensuring that they have no immunity in any vehicle incident.

The immunities in respect of the GIGO cover immunity from suit and legal process, inviolability of premises and archives, and appropriate tax exemptions and reliefs in relation to official activities. In respect of representatives of the parties and staff, the provisions cover functional immunity and an immunity waiver. Additionally, the order includes an exemption from the legal suit and process immunity in the case of a motor traffic offence or damage caused by a motor vehicle. That is a standard clause included in statutory instruments and treaties to provide for privileges and immunities.

The support for the GIGO’s establishment ensured through the order is a unique opportunity to showcase UK leadership and innovation in the air force defence industry on a global stage. Through the GIGO the UK will lead on the development of an innovative stealth fighter jet with supersonic capability and equipped with cutting-edge technology, and facilitate collaboration with key international partners that raise the profile of the UK’s combat air industrial capacity.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con)]

I congratulate you, Madam Deputy Speaker, on your victory. You will be brilliant and I look forward to serving under your chairmanship in the three or four years ahead.

May I say how very much I support the statutory instrument? I do not support the Prime Minister’s lukewarm words at Farnborough. I think the concerns we have on the Conservative Benches are to do with the hares he set running not by what he said, but by what did not say. My advice to Ministers would be, “For goodness’ sake, up the rhetoric around this.” No Government in their right mind would cancel this project. This project is not only essential to our defence; it is the bridge to the unmanned future of defence that will come by mid-century. Kick away that bridge and we are left with very little: we undermine fundamentally the defence of these islands; we destroy the reputation of this country not just with the Japanese and the Italians, but with practically any partner in defence, present and future, that we can imagine, not least the Saudis; and it means that we will not be able to successfully translate our defence industrial base to the future, which we all appreciate is largely unmanned in each of the four domains that defence these days has to consider. Words mean what words say, except when they trip from the lips of politicians. Then, it is very often what is not said that influences the conversation, particularly in the media.

My plea, in the very short time available to me, is for Ministers, senior Ministers and the Prime Minister to correct what was said this week and, in particular, to ramp up the rhetoric on our support for this fundamentally important programme that is vital to our defence and our defence base. I appreciate that the Prime Minister has a problem, in that he has failed to commit to 2.5% of GDP within a recognisable timeframe, which is no commitment at all, and he has launched a largely unnecessary defence review, which will be a distraction for at least 12 months. I am confident in the sound good sense of Lord Robertson and Richard Barrons. I cannot image that they will be party to the cancellation or delay of this programme.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Ghani)]

I call the Minister to respond.