Inequalities in Dementia Services

Andrew Gwynne Excerpts

Thursday 16th May 2024 Westminster Hall

[Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered inequalities in dementia services.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Ms Rees. I thank the Backbench Business Committee for granting me this debate to discuss the huge inequalities in dementia diagnosis and other services across the country. I also thank the Alzheimer’s Society for providing the secretariat to the all-party parliamentary group on dementia and for supporting our many inquiries, including the inquiry we conducted into dementia diagnosis last week, which was published in our “Raising the Barriers” report. My particular thanks go to Lewis and Connor for their briefings and for helping me to prepare for this debate.

It is a real honour to have recently been re-elected as co-chair of the all-party parliamentary group on dementia, a position that I have held since 2015. My other co-chair is Baroness Angela Browning, and like Angela I became involved in the APPG because I became a carer of a loved one who developed one of the brain diseases that cause dementia. In my case it was my mum, who was also called Angela. She was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s disease in 2002, when she was just 64, and I cared for her along with my stepfather and brother. After she died in 2012, I became the first MP to train as a Dementia Friends champion and was subsequently elected as co-chair of the APPG on dementia in 2015.

This debate could not be more timely. As you know, Ms Rees, this week marks Dementia Action Week. Yesterday I had the pleasure of sponsoring the Alzheimer’s Society’s reception in Parliament for Dementia Action Week, where we welcomed many Members to hear about the importance of a dementia diagnosis and the transformative potential of new treatments for dementia. Back in January, I spoke in another Westminster Hall debate looking at the advent of new treatments, particularly lecanemab and donanemab. Those drugs have caused huge excitement, as they mark the first ever treatments for people in the early stages of Alzheimer’s disease and could change the way that we see dementia forever. However, even in that debate I highlighted the barriers to those drugs being delivered to patients and sounded a note of caution that they are neither a cure nor a quick fix. I was really reassured that the approval of lecanemab and donanemab is going through the regulatory cycle at the moment, and we hope to hear when they will be available in the next couple of months.

The fact of the matter is that dementia is a monumental pressure on our health and social care system, but it is all too often an afterthought in commissioning. It is not commonly known that dementia is the leading cause of death in the UK. Nearly 1 million people have dementia, but of those one in three currently live without a diagnosis. Dementia costs the economy more than £40 billion each year, and more than 60% of that cost is borne by individuals and families. Those facts may come as a surprise to many, including many commissioners, but I will focus today on two important inequalities in dementia: the inequality in dementia diagnosis rates between different parts of the country and different groups of people, and the inequality between those who do and do not have access to post-diagnostic support.

First, I will share some information that hon. Members will hopefully find useful. When we talk about dementia, we are using a collective term covering the common symptoms associated with a range of brain diseases. Alzheimer’s disease is the most common of those, but they also include vascular dementia, which my mother-in-law had, Lewy bodies, frontotemporal dementia and many others. Each of those brain diseases has different pathology and as a consequence will have different therapies.

Right now, more than 900,000 people live with dementia in the UK, as I mentioned. Due to our ageing population, that figure is set to rise to 1.6 million by 2040, but I need to stress that dementia is not an automatic part of ageing, although it is more prevalent in older populations. People with dementia account for more than 70% of the residential care home population over the age of 65 and 60% of people receiving home care. Meanwhile, as revealed by NHS performance data published earlier this year, it is estimated that a quarter of NHS beds are occupied by people with dementia. They remain in hospital on average twice as long as people who do not live with the condition. Unfortunately, that reflects the crisis in our social care system and not being able to safely discharge people back into the community or to residential care.

I reflect on where we are in relation to our social care system and the opportunities that we have had, for example through the Dilnot proposals back in 2015, and I really do hope that focused the minds of all of us in what we do. I certainly will be supporting, and have for many years been supportive of, a national care service.

Diagnosis is the key that unlocks vital care and support for people living with dementia, particularly those who are struggling to manage their symptoms alone. It helps people to understand their condition. It allows them and their loved ones to start planning for the future but, as I mentioned earlier, currently just one in three people estimated to have dementia receive a formal diagnosis. The benefits to receiving a diagnosis are massive—access to new treatments and to the care and support that is needed. Alzheimer’s Society reported earlier this week that 91% of people with a dementia diagnosis saw real benefits to having received one. However, the dementia diagnosis rate in England dropped from 67.6% to 61% during the covid pandemic. Currently it is 64.8% in England—below the national target of two thirds.

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

I am very grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way and I commend her, not only for securing this debate but for the powerful work she does in this area of policy. She raises the national target for two thirds of people with dementia to be diagnosed. That is not nearly ambitious enough. Is she also concerned that there are huge variances across the country? How can it be that a place like Stoke can get 90% diagnosis and a place like Swindon 50%?

--- Later in debate ---

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Rees. I yet again commend my hon. Friend the Member for Oldham East and Saddleworth (Debbie Abrahams) for securing this debate and for her ongoing advocacy on the issue. I also thank the other hon. Members here; we are a small but perfectly formed debate.

I particularly thank my hon. Friend the Member for Halifax (Holly Lynch) for her important contribution. She is absolutely right to champion not only the important services being provided in her patch and across the country, but that desire to want better and to want more so that no person or family looking after somebody with dementia is left behind. That wraparound support is absolutely crucial. I also commend her and my hon. Friend the Member for Oldham East and Saddleworth on thanking those national and local organisations and charities, and the wonderful army of volunteers who keep dementia on the public policy platform.

I thank the hon. Member for Romford (Andrew Rosindell) for his important interventions. It is absolutely right that we have to approach how we deal with dementia in the 21st century on a cross-party basis. I hope that we can reach some consensus on what needs to be done, because never has the need for a clear, concerted focus on dementia been more pressing. It is one of the biggest health and social care issues facing our society. As my hon. Friend the Member for Oldham East and Saddleworth pointed out, almost 1 million people in the United Kingdom live with dementia—a figure that is expected to rise to 1.4 million by 2040.

Behind those numbers lie individual people with their own distinct circumstances and challenges and their own unique stories of living with dementia. It is a cruel condition that strips people of their fondest memories and causes devastation for families.

Dementia can impact anyone at any time. It is indiscriminate in the impact it can have, but we know that certain groups are at increased risk. We know that women are more likely to develop dementia than men. They are also more likely to be caring for a loved one living with dementia. We know that those from poorer and disadvantaged backgrounds are more susceptible to key dementia risk factors, with often limited access to health services.

My hon. Friend the Member for Oldham East and Saddleworth is absolutely right to refer to these conditions as health inequalities, because it is often those living in the poorest, most adverse circumstances who face the hardest challenges, not just with this condition, but with a whole number of conditions. If we want to live in a better, fairer, more equal society, we have a duty to bear down on those inequalities. I completely agree with my hon. Friend about referring to such conditions as health inequalities. People from ethnic minority backgrounds are also at higher risk, as are those with conditions such as Down’s syndrome, but the population living with dementia is expanding all the time; it is not restricted to any single group, and we must be ready to tackle the challenges that presents head on.

Nowhere is that challenge clearer than in adult social care. Around 60% of people drawing on home-based care and support services live with dementia, rising to 70% for those in residential care. We need long-term solutions that reshape social care into a service that is fit for the future and fit for the challenges of the future. That is why I am proud of Labour’s commitment to a 10-year plan for fundamental reform of adult social care, culminating in the creation of a national care service.

The NCS will employ robust central frameworks and standards, but it will be underpinned by locally led delivery. Every community will have its own unique set of needs, face unique challenges and require unique solutions. One of our aims will be to gradually reduce the postcode lottery that operates within social care that causes people living with dementia and their families so much distress. However, a reformed and reshaped social care sector alone cannot and will not meet the needs of an ever-growing population of people living with dementia.

[Andrew Rosindell]

I am very interested in some of the hon. Member’s comments. I am glad that he approaches the issue from a cross-party point of view. In my own borough of Havering, there are a vast number of older people. So many services for people who suffer with dementia depend on local authorities. In Havering, we do not get the additional funding we need to deal with the older population who need those services. If there were to be a change of Government, would he commit to helping boroughs like Havering by giving them more resources? Will that boroughs with large populations of older people who suffer with dementia get more support from the Government that the hon. Member may well serve in?

[Andrew Gwynne]

I would certainly hope and expect so. The way we are going to deal with the national care service is not to create a big, monolithic organisation to rival the NHS as some kind of super-organisation employing lots of people. The NCS will be about the centre setting out a clear national direction of how we deal with the challenges of social care: what the pay, terms and conditions of the workforce should be, and what the outcomes should be for people drawing on social care services. That strong centre sets out the “what”. The “how” has to be determined locally, because what works in Oldham will not work in Romford. There will be best practice in Oldham, which will transfer over and can be upscaled to Halifax, Lewes or Romford. That is also a job of the centre—to promote that best practice and what works, encouraging other authorities to do that—but the funding challenges require an integrated approach, and I saw at first hand how that could work in my own local authority.

For a very small period of time, now unpicked by the latest round of structural changes, Tameside council was also the clinical commissioning group for Tameside and Glossop. By bringing the local authority and the CCG together under a single leadership with a single budget, some really smart decisions were made on dealing with adult social care. I know what integration looks like, I know it works, and I know how we can get better use of the public pound, by stripping out some of the duplication.

[Andrew Rosindell]

I am very pleased by what the hon. Gentleman is saying, but have just a small point of clarification. There should be common cause over this issue, but does he agree that the important thing is that the funding follows the individual? It should not matter which part of the country someone lives in or if they are on a certain side of the boundary of a borough. My borough is within Greater London, and we get very poor funding because all the money goes into the centre for all sorts of local services, and Essex County Council is just up the road, so we always get caught. Can the hon. Gentleman assure me that in any policies he may bring forward, the money will go directly to the needs of the individual, rather than one person on one side of a boundary getting the funding, while a mile down the road they do not get the support they need?

[Andrew Gwynne]

That is why we need to have a strong national framework with an expectation that these services are delivered to the required outcomes, with very strong targets across the whole of England. I get the nuance between local government finance and the interrelationship with adult social care and NHS budgets. We have to be smarter at working around all of this. As a former shadow Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, I realise that this is not a debate on local government finance, but the two are interrelated. I take on board the point made by the hon. Member for Romford.

In order to get this reformed, reshaped social care sector, and particularly within the scope of there being an ever-growing population of people living with dementia, we need to fix the crisis in our NHS, which is intrinsically linked with our social care system, to address the inequalities in dementia care. As we have already heard, that care starts with timely and accurate diagnosis. A third of those currently living with dementia in the UK do not have a diagnosis, and that prevents them from accessing the vital care, support and treatment they need.

This is also about allowing people to have some degree of certainty and to make different life choices based on that. If I found out that I had early-onset dementia, I could hopefully access some of these new drugs available. In doing so, I would very much hope that I could tick off a few more things on my bucket list. I might want to spend more time with my family and take them on a chance-of-a-lifetime holiday, making memories. People are deprived of making those choices. I do not think it is good enough to have a third of people left undiagnosed. That is the national target being met, and as we have heard, in large parts of the country it is not being met.

I want us to get to a much more rigorous national target. If Stoke can diagnose 90% of people with dementia, so can the rest of the country because Stoke is not a rich area or a well-sourced local authority. Its NHS is not awash with any more cash than other areas of the country; if they can get 90%, so can the rest of the country, with concerted effort. That is why having a strong central target, and an emphasis from the Minister to make that a priority, is going to be important. It will be the priority of the next Labour Government to increase that target and demand that local systems not only meet but exceed it, because this is people’s lives that we are talking about.

As we know, earlier diagnosis means better care and outcomes—it could not be simpler. The national target of two thirds is not good enough. I am not content that a third of people, and even more in many areas failing to meet the target, are living with dementia and going without vital care. With primary care under such immense strain, people simply cannot get through the front door. That is why the next Labour Government will be committed to making the future of general practice sustainable, and to taking pressure off those currently working in the system. We will bolster the workforce so that all patients, including those with dementia, can get timely care. That is why Labour will deliver on the NHS long- term workforce plan to train the staff the NHS needs, now and in the future.

Once a diagnosis has been made, continuity and ease of access to care is crucial to long-term outcomes. That is why one of the fundamental shifts that the next Labour Government will deliver in our health and care system is taking focus of care out of hospitals and into the community. Unlike the last time that was done, principally for people with dementia and learning disabilities, the money has to flow from hospital to community as well, which scandalously did not previously happen.

Labour will work with the NHS and social care providers to bring services together in local communities. It is by having those services embedded where people are that we will deliver another crucial shift to a health and care service relentlessly focused on prevention. Alzheimer’s Society research shows us that mild dementia costs £29,000 per person per year, compared to £81,000 for severe dementia. That provides proof, if ever we needed it, that the case for focused prevention is clear for not just patient outcomes but the financial sustainability of services.

As well as looking at the here and now, we must also look at the challenges on the horizon. Our understanding of dementia is constantly evolving. That is why continued leadership in research and embracing the latest technological advances and developments are so vital to ensuring we stay ahead of the game. Labour is committed to putting Britain at the front of the queue for new treatments by boosting clinical trial activity in the NHS. We will speed up recruitment to trials, and give more people the chance to participate. We will link clinical trial registries to create a national standing registry and harness the power of the NHS app to invite eligible participants to take part in research studies.

I pay tribute to a group that is so vital but yet so often forgotten: unpaid carers. Hundreds of thousands of people care selflessly for their loved ones living with dementia. Make no mistake: without the work of unpaid carers the system would simply collapse. With 63% of the total cost of dementia being borne by those living with the condition and their families, we know just how raw a deal they are getting. They are a vital part of the fight against dementia, and they will be at the heart of Labour’s plans in Government.

There will be a carers strategy under the next Labour Government, because we value the vital work our carers do. It will be a cross-Government strategy with the Department for Work and Pensions, Department for Education and the future of work review all feeding into it along with the Department of Health and Social Care. There is a brighter future for those living with dementia and their families and carers. Labour will deliver it.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Maria Caulfield)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Rees. I thank the hon. Member for Oldham East and Saddleworth (Debbie Abrahams) for securing this debate and for her collaborative work on the issue, which brings everyone together. She is right to point out that dementia is not an automatic part of ageing—there is still a stereotype that does not recognise that—but early onset dementia is also an issue. Young people with dementia often struggle to get the help and support they need because it is seen as a disease of old age.

It was incredible to hear the hon. Lady describe her own experience of caring for her mother, Angela, which must have been so difficult. I think most of us have been affected by dementia in some way. My mother-in-law died from dementia last year. It is just terrible seeing people we know and love change in often such a dramatic way. Even with the best care and support available in the world, it is still difficult.

The hon. Member for Halifax (Holly Lynch) talked about her good experience with local services and the importance of dementia-friendly communities. She is absolutely right. My hon. Friend the Member for Romford (Andrew Rosindell) contributed with his own experience, and spoke about the changes he would like to see to improve the care and experience of those who suffer with dementia.

The all-party parliamentary group on dementia does fantastic work. In her role as chair, the hon. Member for Oldham East and Saddleworth is doing groundbreaking work, particularly on reports and surveys to flag issues based on the experience of those who provide dementia services and look after loved ones. In Dementia Action Week, I thank everyone involved in supporting people with dementia, particularly unpaid carers, as the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Denton and Reddish (Andrew Gwynne), said.

I want to reassure hon. Members that this Government are passionate about improving care, and we have a clear mission to make our NHS and social care system much more responsive to people’s needs. The hon. Member for Halifax pointed out the important work of the former Prime Minister, Boris Johnson, in setting up the Dame Barbara Windsor dementia mission. The previous Prime Minister, David Cameron, instigated a lot of research in this space as well.

I say this with my Minister for Women hat on: the leading cause of death among women is dementia. We also know that one in three people will be diagnosed with dementia in their lifetime, and that by 2040 1.6 million of us will be living with the condition, so it has to be a priority for diagnosis, treatment and support. I welcome the research this week from the Alzheimer’s Society, which highlights the economic impact of dementia and further outlines why it must be a priority.

The theme of today’s debate is the inequalities that exist across the country, and the wide variety of people’s experiences in getting a diagnosis and the support and care that they need. Yes, we can put more money and resources in, and I will outline some of the funding we are providing, but we also need a cultural shift. Although dementia is seen as a natural part of ageing, given diagnostic overshadowing other health conditions affecting people with dementia are often completely ignored because they are taken as part of the dementia diagnosis. When someone with dementia has a urinary tract infection, they will often be confused and agitated or even crying out in pain. It is seen as part of their dementia, when actually they could improve considerably with some simple antibiotics to treat that UTI. Sometimes we need to look at the culture around dementia across the system.

I want to highlight some of the work and research that we are already doing to look at diagnosis and treatment. I take the point made by the hon. Member for Oldham East and Saddleworth about the central database. Each ICB holds its own individual database, but I will go back to colleagues in the Department of Health and Social Care to see whether we can bring data together to look at disparities across the country.

Last year we announced our plan to publish a major conditions strategy. Dementia is one of the six conditions covered by the strategy, alongside cancer, cardiovascular disease and other major conditions. It is important that dementia is seen as a major condition and not just a part of ageing. Part of the work that we need to do is around the timely diagnosis of dementia, to ensure that anyone with dementia can access advice, information, care and support.

Our ambition is for two thirds of people living with dementia to receive a formal diagnosis. The shadow Minister probably knows what I am going to say. Absolutely —what he said sounds wonderful. However, Labour is in charge of healthcare in Wales and its ambition in the dementia action plan there is to increase diagnosis by 3% a year. We all want to see an increase in diagnosis rates, but we also need to be realistic and in some of the ambitions elsewhere that has not always been the case.

[Andrew Gwynne]

May I point out to the Minister that I seek to be the Social Care Minister for England, not Wales? As she is the current Social Care Minister for England, not Wales, can she please be a bit more ambitious for England?

[Maria Caulfield]

I think it is ambitious for two thirds of people living with dementia to receive a formal diagnosis, because we are not there yet. We are putting some building blocks in place to improve things.

We know that the pandemic had a significant effect, because we shut down routine care for just over two years. It was very difficult then for someone to see their GP with concerns about potential symptoms of dementia, so the treatment of conditions such as dementia suffered as a result of lockdown. However, we are recovering diagnosis rates and a lot of work is going into that. Nevertheless, I absolutely recognise that some parts of the country have made a better recovery than others. Addressing that must be a focus of our work going forward.

NHS England has committed to recover dementia diagnosis rates to that national ambition and is providing clear guidance to integrated care boards, particularly where performance is not where we want it to be, to make sure that that happens. As part of the spending review in 2021-22, £17 million was allocated to the NHS to address dementia waiting lists and increase the number of diagnoses, which, as I say, was adversely impacted by the pandemic.

NHS England is funding an evidence-based improvement project for two trusts in each region, with 14 sites in total, to pilot the diagnosing advanced dementia mandate tool in order to improve diagnoses rates and so that people know what they should be doing when they are trying to get a diagnosis. That includes people in care homes and those who may not have relatives or friends to advocate on their behalf and help them to get a diagnosis in the first place.

We touched a little on research. I pay tribute to charity partners working with the National Institute for Health and Care Research, or NIHR, to try and find diagnostic tools to provide better diagnoses at an earlier stage, including things such as the blood biomarker and the blood biomarker challenge, which seeks to produce the clinical and economic data to make the case for a blood biomarker test in healthcare across the UK—so including our friends in Wales—to improve dementia diagnosis. That is how we will really find out who is at most risk and get them diagnosed earlier.

We are committed to supporting that research and will double funding for dementia research to £160 million a year by the end of this current financial year. That will be around not just diagnosis but treatment and other research elements. The Dame Barbara Windsor dementia mission is deeply embedded in that work and I thank it for its work in that regard.

I turn to the prevention of dementia. The NIHR is investing £9 million into the three schools dementia programme. There must be risk factors for dementia that we are unaware of at the moment and that vital research could be a game-changer in the future. The NIHR is also supporting the Promoting Independence in Dementia or PRIDE study, which aims to identify how social and lifestyle changes could reduce the risk of developing dementia at any stage of someone’s life—I was going to say “later in life”, but dementia can affect any age group.

That takes me on to treatments. Drugs are currently being appraised by the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence to determine whether they should be made available on the NHS. I know that many, many people are waiting for those appraisals and hope that they will be positive. We expect NICE to publish guidance in July and September respectively, and we want to make sure that if the decision is positive, we are able to provide fair and equitable access to any licensed and approved medication. We will hopefully hear very soon about that.

I want to touch on post-diagnostic support, which is a key part of people’s experience with dementia. Everyone should have access to meaningful care. I want to talk about the work of Admiral nurses, who do a tremendous job but are not available everywhere. It is down to individual ICBs to commission those services. The additional roles reimbursement scheme that is available to primary care networks and GP practices allows for enhanced nurses in dementia care to be employed. I encourage MPs to check with their ICBs, PCN and GPs to see whether that is something being used.

Admiral nurses do a fantastic job. It is not just about supporting people with dementia and their families. One critical area is continuing care applications. Very often people with dementia are turned down for continuing care, and Admiral nurses will often get those decisions overturned. I am not commenting on that, but they do have that experience. Sometimes dementia care may appear on the surface to be social care, but it actually is clinical nursing care, so that NHS/social care divide can be bridged.

Local authorities have a duty under the Care Act 2014 to provide or arrange services that meet the needs of the local population. My hon. Friend the Member for Romford talked about various conflicts between neighbouring local authorities. The reason we brought in integrated care boards was to bridge the gap between not only the NHS and social care but neighbouring local authorities. I encourage my hon. Friend to speak to his ICB to see whether they can do anything to better commission services for patients, so that it does not matter which edge of a borough someone lives in and to ensure that care is more joined up.

Digital Markets, Competition and Consumers Bill

Andrew Gwynne Excerpts

Consideration of Lords amendments
Tuesday 30th April 2024 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

I commend my hon. Friend for all her work over a very long period on this important issue. It is important to support the Lords amendment because so many of our constituents are deprived of even the chance of getting a ticket for a sports match, pop concert or whatever, as they cannot beat the bots. Is that not the inherent unfairness?

[Mrs Hodgson]

It absolutely is. It is not a level playing field at all. I was going to come to the bots, and the fact that nobody has yet been put behind bars for having used bots, even though they are illegal, and are the tool that touts use to harvest tickets, so that they can scam the rest of the population and all our constituents. I am happy to stand here and crowd-please—I will do it until my dying breath—because that is what we are here to do. We should do the right thing for the public, and they are calling for us to regulate this market.

--- Later in debate ---

However, convictions are extremely few and far between, despite thousands of professional touts operating. It is important for the Minister that I clarify the numbers. There have been only two major cases, involving six convictions, against touts. When I spoke of two cases, that is two court cases with six convictions. It is not six cases. I just want to make sure that that is clear on the record.

[Andrew Gwynne]

My hon. Friend is making a really important point. She rightly points out the degree of criminality at the highest end of the organisations that are responsible for the touting industry, and the lack of prosecutions. It is actually quite a good business proposition for them, is it not? It is relatively risk-free. They are probably more likely to get sentenced for being an international drug dealer than for selling the tickets.

[Mrs Hodgson]

It is very interesting that my hon. Friend has come to the same conclusion I have. I have made that exact point in many interviews over the years: why would anybody go out and rob banks or do any sort of crime for which they might get caught, when they could just be a ticket tout? They’ll make a fortune and nobody will come after them, not even the taxman. There will be no hand of the law on their shoulder. There have been only two cases and six prosecutions in all the time I have been campaigning on this issue. So yes, it is time we sorted it out. It is just not acceptable.

The recent case that I think the Minister referred to earlier involved individuals being convicted for buying and reselling tickets worth £6.5 million—£6.5 million. They have been caught, but that is because they are right up at the top end. There will be people making £1 million, half a million pounds, £2 million or £3 million who have not been caught. There are so many touts. The case involved using multiple, often fake, identities to buy large numbers of tickets with multiple credit cards. However, convictions are extremely few and far between, despite thousands of professional touts operating.

Finally, those who trade in the UK must be subject to UK laws—surely we all agree with that. Subsection (5) of proposed new section 92A states:

“A secondary ticketing facility must make it clear to traders and businesses based overseas that sell tickets to UK consumers and target UK consumers through paid or sponsored advertisements”—

in some cases using Google and trusted publications, or even sponsoring podcasts by trusted influencers—

“or paid infomercials that they are subject to UK legislation.”

The vast majority of suppliers to Viagogo and other secondary platforms are commercial businesses. A significant proportion are based outside the UK, as I said, but they target UK events to derive the highest possible profit. Likewise, none of the websites have offices in the UK. There are no UK jobs at stake, apart from a handful. It has been quite hard for me and my team to check and be sure of the numbers, as these companies are all registered in tax havens and overseas. However, the damage and exploitation occur in the UK at the expense of artists, athletes and fans, without any fear of the current toothless UK law.

Viagogo has already had its wings clipped, partially, by CMA orders over the years, but in my opinion it is nowhere near enough. It has repeatedly shown that it cannot be trusted to mark its own homework. For instance, elsewhere Viagogo was fined 7 million Australian dollars for misleading consumers, €20 million for breaking the law in Italy and €400,000 in France for breaking the law around rugby world cup tickets. Yet we heard the Minister’s colleague, the Minister for Media, Tourism and Creative Industries, spouting the Viagogo lines of defence from the Dispatch Box just a couple of weeks ago—go figure! This is all on the record, because my hon. Friend the Member for Worsley and Eccles South raised it in a point of order a couple of weeks ago, just after the Minister for Media, Tourism and Creative Industries did it.

Unless legislative action is taken to stop this black market, it will continue to grow and cause further damage. This modest amendment effectively plugs loopholes in legislation, and ensures that music and sport fans of all ages have the information that they need before they make that purchase. I implore everyone here today to please support Lords amendment 104 and start putting fans first—or else move aside so that we can do so.

--- Later in debate ---

This Bill and many of the Lords amendments make welcome progress on some of these issues. I will start with ticket touting, which, as we know, is one of the most egregiously exploitative practices. I think we can all agree that it is simply wrong to buy tickets in bulk and then charge a huge mark-up fee for resale. It creates massive barriers to accessing culture, particularly for people on lower incomes, and the revenues go not to our hard-pressed musicians and venues, but to grifters who add absolutely no value of their own.

[Andrew Gwynne]

It comes back to the point about bots. Even the most tech-savvy person cannot beat the bots, and once those bots get going, they sweep away all the tickets and genuine fans cannot get them. That is so unfair—almost as unfair as the extortionate prices that these companies charge for the tickets they have swept up using those bots.

[Ms Brown]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We have families struggling to buy tickets for their children who are desperate to go and see x band or y band, and then they find themselves ripped off and unable to have that treat, which was massively looked forward to.

I give huge credit to my hon. Friend the Member for Washington and Sunderland West (Mrs Hodgson) for her years of dedicated campaigning in this area. Her work has helped to bring this issue to the forefront of debate, and to make it clear that legal change is necessary to protect our cultural industries and consumers from the touts. We on the Opposition Benches have a clear policy to stamp out ticket touting so that no one is able to charge a large mark-up on resold tickets.

--- Later in debate ---

[Kevin Hollinrake]

Yes, I have just googled sellers of tickets in Dublin, and people can buy tickets well in excess of face value on the platform. I could not find them on Viagogo, but other platforms are selling those tickets. We are trying to do something that is effective. I am very happy to continue to engage with the hon. Lady, as she makes a very compelling case. I shall continue to look at what she says and continue to engage with her. I am very keen to ensure that we get to the right place, so that we protect consumers, but allow a fair, free market to work properly.

[Andrew Gwynne]

I am very grateful to the Minister for giving way. I want to take him back to his comment that what was needed was not new legislation, but better enforcement. The enforcement authorities would presumably be trading standards. What is the reason there are not the prosecutions that we would all like to see? Is it because trading standards has been run into the ground and does not have the capacity to do the job that he is expecting it to do? Is it because of the complexity of the market? And which trading standards is responsible: the one where the platforms are based, the one where the person who bought the ticked is based, or the one where the concert is being held? That makes enforcing this measure really difficult.

[Kevin Hollinrake]

I thank the hon. Member for his points. I said not that legislation was not needed, but that there was no point in having legislation without enforcement. There have been six successful prosecutions by trading standards, but is he saying that he wants to fund trading standards to a greater degree? I understand some of the pressures on local authorities across the country; there are pressures on the public finances generally. If he has a solution to that and can provide lots more money to local authorities, he should have a word with his Front-Bench team, because that has not been Labour’s policy.

Covid-19: Response and Excess Deaths

Andrew Gwynne Excerpts

Thursday 18th April 2024 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for North West Leicestershire (Andrew Bridgen) on securing the debate, and the Backbench Business Committee on granting time for it. I thank Members who have contributed, including my hon. Friend the Member for Blackley and Broughton (Graham Stringer), and the hon. Members for Christchurch (Sir Christopher Chope), for Devizes (Danny Kruger) and for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath (Neale Hanvey). It would be remiss of me not to thank those who participated with extensive interventions, including the hon. Member for South Basildon and East Thurrock (Stephen Metcalfe), the Father of the House, the hon. Member for Worthing West (Sir Peter Bottomley), who is no longer in his place, the hon. Member for Crewe and Nantwich (Dr Mullan) and the hon. Member for Bath (Wera Hobhouse).

We have had a good and I think fairly measured debate, given the strong feelings held on both sides of it. It is probably important to accurately define the subject we are discussing here today. The term “excess deaths” is not new, nor in any way derived directly from the covid-19 pandemic. It is a key statistic continuously tracked by Governments of all colours and political persuasions over a number of years. It is data that helps Ministers to keep informed, and to inform policy development and measures to improve health outcomes in our communities.

Vaccines in the covid-19 pandemic were and, importantly, remain an essential tool in our fight against covid-19.

[Andrew Bridgen]

Will the shadow Minister give way on that point?

[Andrew Gwynne]

I will not give way; I am just opening.

I disagree with the hon. Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath in this respect. I think it is evident from the covid death data during the pandemic throughout the lockdowns that covid-related deaths came down significantly almost immediately as the vaccine was rolled out. What we can say, as the hon. Member for Christchurch did in his contribution, is that for many millions of people in this country, the vaccine was a success and it allowed us to return to lives that were as near normal as possible. However, we must not underestimate the fact that covid-19 was a massive killer in this country. We only have to look at the wall across the river from the Palace of Westminster to see the impact covid-19 had on communities up and down the country. I and the Opposition remain firmly of the view that the covid-19 vaccines played a massive, fundamental role in returning life to normal.

As happens with any form of medical intervention, there have been instances of harmful side effects—no one disputes that—and when those are found, they should of course be properly investigated. The efficacy of drugs needs to be reviewed over periods of time, and the science needs to be fully understood and responded to. That, I think, is true of any drug that is available on the national health service. I should also say that the hon. Member for Christchurch raised some very fair points about the covid vaccine damage payment scheme. We have had debates about it in Westminster Hall, and I think he is right to raise those concerns as eloquently as he does.

I will always be open to the testing of scientific evidence, but, as a number of Members have pointed out today, for millions of us the vaccines have been a game changer in overcoming the worst fears of covid-19. They have allowed us to return to normality, and, most important of all, they have saved lives. We do need to understand more about why for some they have caused reactions, and in some cases may have tragically led to fatalities, which is why I think the hon. Member for South Basildon and East Thurrock was right to say that we need to get to the bottom of that data. But investigation and review should not be allowed to frighten people who, to this day, are still deeply vulnerable, away from taking the covid vaccine boosters, and it is important for us to send out the message that those who need the boosters should have them.

[Stephen Metcalfe]

I should put it on record that I am fully vaccinated, that I was a supporter of the vaccines when they first came out, and that I am a supporter of them now and will continue to be. I think that they play a huge role in managing serious disease. My concern at the moment is that the tone of some of this debate is undermining not only the reputation of our scientists, but the efficacy of vaccine programmes in the future. I do not want to shut down the debate about the topic. We need to find a way of filling the evidence gap, and I hope we can do that collectively by encouraging research so that potentially wild and untested theories do not fill that vacuum.

[Andrew Gwynne]

I could not agree more with the hon. Gentleman. We know that there is a cohort of people for whom the covid-19 vaccines have led to reactions, and we know that there is, tragically, a cohort of people who have died. We need to learn more about the impact of this set of vaccines on that cohort, but for the vast majority of people the covid-19 vaccines have been a huge success, and we should not let people think that they are at risk from them. In fact, many people who are being asked right now to take the vaccines because they are immunosuppressed are at risk of not taking them, and we need to ensure that they are protected. I, too, am fully vaccinated, and because of my own ongoing health issues I have just been invited for my next booster, which I will be taking.

We know that the virus itself has been a key driver of excess mortality, and it continues to have an impact across our communities to this day. I understand that, and I understand that covid affects many people. I still struggle with long covid. In fact, my long covid has been much worse than the actual covid infection that I got in March 2020, way before any vaccines were even dreamt of. There are lots of people who are in a far worse situation, because they have not yet been able to return to work or to near full fitness. Even to this day, I still struggle with the impacts of a covid infection right at the start of the first wave of covid in March 2020, and it debilitated me for the best part of two years.

Millions of clinically vulnerable people—the hon. Member for Christchurch rightly raised this—continue to shield and live with the constant reminder of the impact that the virus can have on them, because they are not able to take the vaccine and they do not have the necessary level of protection for their own health needs to be able to return to anything like a near normal lifestyle. He mentioned Evusheld and Evusheld 2, and I very much support the right of clinically vulnerable communities to access those drugs so that they can regain the freedoms that we have all benefited from. I will continue to communicate with those communities and, where I can, seek to amplify their concerns.

Yes, covid is part of the picture, but across the board we have seen an increase in the incidence of major conditions such as cancer, diabetes and heart disease, all of which have contributed to the figures on excess deaths. The way to fight back against those numbers is to inform people responsibly about their health and wellbeing, and about the measures that are in place to protect them. It is also about ensuring that our health service is fit for the future. We need an NHS that is rooted in the communities that it serves, ensuring that people can access care when and where they need it. The NHS must embrace new technologies as essential for diagnosing and treating people as quickly as possible, and it must move from being a national sickness service to putting prevention front and centre. Only by doing so can we have an NHS that learns the lessons from the pandemic and ensures that, where mistakes were made in the past, they are learned from and not repeated in future pandemics.

That is the kind of thing we need to do as a Parliament, and it is the kind of thing that I hope the next Labour Government will be able to do. Until then, we will fully support the current Government in making sure the message is sent out loudly and clearly that the covid-19 vaccine is the best way of protecting yourself and your loved ones from what is still a terrible virus.

Post Office Ltd

Andrew Gwynne Excerpts

Monday 29th January 2024 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Hollinrake]

I agree with the hon. Lady. We need sustainable post offices, and that is about revenue. There have been changes in consumer habits and business levels, which have caused difficulties for postmasters. As I said, the Government have legislated for access for cash, which is a new opportunity for post offices. The banking framework delivers more revenue into those post office branches; we are keen to see that enhanced and for the Post Office to be more ambitious about that relationship, with that money flowing straight into the profit and loss accounts of individual postmasters’ branches. There are many other opportunities, including parcel hubs and foreign exchange. I am happy to discuss the matter offline, if that would be helpful.

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

The reputational damage to the brand of the Post Office as a direct consequence of the Horizon scandal has been massive—as the Minister knows, my constituent Della Robinson was one of the 555 litigants who had their convictions quashed a couple of years ago. Looking to the future, what is the Minister’s vision for reinvigorating the Post Office as a great British brand?

Horizon: Compensation and Convictions

Andrew Gwynne Excerpts

Monday 8th January 2024 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Hollinrake]

I totally agree with my right hon. Friend. As Ministers, we must bear responsibility for what we do, as well as expect people within the Post Office, Fujitsu and others to bear responsibility. As Ministers, we must serve a useful purpose. I totally agree about drawing a line under this. That is exactly what we want to do, in two ways: by overturning convictions and by paying full and final compensation. I am pleased to say that around 30 people with overturned convictions have been able to draw a line under it by being compensated fully for what happened to them. We should try to build on that, and make it happen much more quickly. That is what we are working on right now, and we hope to deliver solutions in the very near future.

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for his statement, and for the work that he is doing to push the issue to a conclusion. I pay tribute to my constituent, Della Robinson, who was the sub-postmistress at Dukinfield post office in my constituency. She was convicted in 2013 of false accounting. Her conviction has been quashed as part of the 555, but she lost everything. She lost her shop, she lost her home, she lost her friends and she lost her reputation. Heads have to roll, because people were in the know at Fujitsu and at the Post Office. While I am not somebody who seeks retribution, heads really must roll in this case because of the lives that were destroyed. As a daughter of Denton, Paula Vennells really ought to do the right thing and hand back her CBE.

[Kevin Hollinrake]

On behalf of the Government and the Post Office, I apologise for what happened to Della Robinson. These are tragic cases, as the hon. Gentleman says, with people losing not just their shop and their business but their home and the respect of their local community. That must have been devastating for her. She clearly has a route to compensation now, having overturned the conviction. There is either an immediate route through the fixed-sum award, or there is the detailed assessment. If it is the detailed assessment, we are keen to ensure that it is delivered as quickly as possible to put Della—Mrs Robinson, I should say—back in the position she was in before the actions of the Post Office.

I agree that people individually must take responsibility. Sir Wyn Williams’s inquiry is there to identify who was responsible, exactly what they did or did not do and how that contributed to the scandal. Where possible, those individuals should be held to account by any means, including prosecutions. Certainly, it seems to be an obvious opportunity for those who have received honours for service to the Post Office to return those honours voluntarily.

Oral Answers to Questions

Andrew Gwynne Excerpts

Thursday 14th September 2023 Commons Chamber

[Kemi Badenoch]

My hon. Friend is right. It used to be called the TPP, and it was the Canadians who added the “comprehensive and progressive” to make it quite a mouthful. The question of what the US wants to do on trade deals comes up time and again. The US has said that it will not sign any free trade agreements even though it was initially considering the TPP. That is why the announcement of the Atlantic declaration by the Prime Minister and President Biden is key. That is our new vehicle to form a trade partnership, and my Department is working actively across Government and with our counterparts in the US to make sure that that delivers for the UK.

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

Many small businesses, particularly in the retail and hospitality sectors, still rely on high street banking. Earlier this month, the last bank in Denton town centre—the Halifax—closed. It was not just the last one in Denton but the last one in the Denton and Reddish parliamentary constituency, leaving small businesses without access to high street banking. It is not good enough, is it?

[Kevin Hollinrake]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point, and we urge banks to listen to their customers about keeping their doors open. Of course, we have the banking framework relationship with the post office network, which provides deposit and cash facilities for small businesses on high streets in Denton and other parts of the country. We are determined to make that relationship more generous to the Post Office to ensure the sustainability of the post office network.

Hormone Pregnancy Tests

Andrew Gwynne Excerpts

Thursday 7th September 2023 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

I thank the Backbench Business Committee for granting this important debate and, as others have done, pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Bolton South East (Yasmin Qureshi) for her tireless work on this issue. She not only secured today’s debate, but has been a powerful voice in this campaign for many years. I also wish to put on record my thanks to Marie and all the other campaigners.

The right hon. Member for Tatton (Esther McVey), who is no longer in her place, rightly said that debates such as this show Parliament at its best. I commend the contributions from my hon. Friends the Members for Wallasey (Dame Angela Eagle), for Manchester, Withington (Jeff Smith), and for Wirral West (Margaret Greenwood). I also commend the speeches and contributions from the right hon. Member for Maidenhead (Mrs May), who did some good work in this area as Prime Minister and carries on campaigning for justice, the hon. Member for Stourbridge (Suzanne Webb), the right hon. Members for Kingston and Surbiton (Ed Davey), for Tatton, and for Chipping Barnet (Theresa Villiers), the hon. Member for Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock (Allan Dorans), who is also not in his place, the hon. Member for North Devon (Selaine Saxby), the right hon. Member for North East Somerset (Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg), the hon. Members for Strangford (Jim Shannon), for Leigh (James Grundy), for Wolverhampton North East (Jane Stevenson), for Southend West (Anna Firth), the right hon. Member for Hemel Hempstead (Sir Mike Penning) and, last but not least, the hon. Member for Livingston (Hannah Bardell), who leads for the SNP. Parliament has spoken with one voice and Parliament has spoken incredibly strongly. We know, as we have heard today, that it has taken decades for those affected by the hormone-based pregnancy test Primodos to be heard let alone be given justice.

Around 1.5 million women in Britain took Primodos in the ’50s, ’60s and ’70s before it was finally withdrawn in the late 1970s. Since then, countless women have come forward to tell their stories, alleging impacts on their children ranging from congenital malformations, birth defects to miscarriage and stillbirth. The voices of these women and their families were not heard for decades.

The Cumberlege report, published in 2020 after being commissioned by the then Prime Minister, the right hon. Member for Maidenhead, and the Secretary of State for Health, was a watershed moment in this decades-long struggle. It investigated not only Primodos and other hormone pregnancy tests, but sodium valproate and pelvic mesh.

What the Cumberlege report found was damning. It concluded that Primodos caused “avoidable harm” and that the handling of this issue spoke to an institutional failure to take the voices of women seriously. The report made several recommendations relating to Primodos, including but not limited to: a full apology to those affected by Primodos, a patient safety commissioner, a redress agency for those harmed and a taskforce to implement these wide-ranging recommendations.

It is important to welcome the apology that the then Secretary of State for Health and Social Care made in 2020 following the publication of the Cumberlege review. But, as has been made clear today, this apology was supposed to be the beginning. I am concerned that the Government have so far fully completed only two of the nine recommendations in the Cumberlege review. Four are classed as ongoing and three have been outright rejected.

That glacial progress is just not acceptable, so I will press the Minister on some key points that stood out to me in the Government’s implementation update report of last December, and other developments since. First, in relation to the recommendation for specialist centres for those adversely affected by medications taken during pregnancy, the Department of Health and Social Care has reiterated its view that specialist centres are

“not the most effective way forward.”

Instead, the Government point to NHS England committing to improve care pathways for the children and families affected. The Government’s report states:

“The Teratogen Clinical Development Group has recommended a proposal for regional multidisciplinary and interdisciplinary ‘hub and spoke’ services to sit within specialised neurodisability teams”.

Those services would support the treatment of children and young people exposed to harmful substances such as Primodos. However, the update report simply states that NHSE

“will explore this recommendation further”.

Can the Minister update the House on where that work has got to?

Secondly, as has been highlighted today, there are concerns about the Government’s approach to this issue. There has been a refusal to discuss the redress scheme, in contradiction to the Cumberlege review. There have been reports of refusals to meet with campaigners and parliamentarians, and news of lawyers representing the Government backing efforts to strike out legal action. The list goes on and is becoming more and more concerning. Given the High Court ruling in May, which I know many campaigners were exceptionally disappointed by, what steps are the Government taking to better engage with parliamentarians and campaigners on this issue, and do they have any plans to reconsider their position on redress and implementation?

[Theresa Villiers]

I am really interested to know what Labour would do if it won the next general election. Would it set up a fund for financial redress?

[Andrew Gwynne]

There seems to be a bit of a trend for the current Government, and Ministers supporting the current Government, to be looking to Labour to fix some of these problems. We will look very seriously at these issues and the situation that we inherit after the next general election, but I want today’s Minister and her Government to do what they need to do now, not wait until the next general election, which could be 12 months or more away. We need justice and redress now.

This is not a party political issue; it is an issue for each and every one of us in this House—those who have contributed to today’s debate, and the many Members who have not. On both sides of the House, we have to ensure that this historic scandal is comprehensively addressed, and the sooner the better for the victims and families. I sincerely hope that in her response the Minister will agree with all that has been said today, and that we can secure some very long overdue justice for these women and their families.

Oral Answers to Questions

Andrew Gwynne Excerpts

Tuesday 7th March 2023 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Minister.

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

We are just 24 days away from a new financial year. Last week, more than 30 public health leaders said that the delay to releasing the public health allocation for 2023-24 was

“putting public health services at risk”.

Early years support, addiction treatment and stop-smoking services should not have to pay the price of this Minister’s incompetence. He must apologise for treating councils and the health of our communities with such contempt. When will the public health grant be announced?

[Neil O’Brien]

The public health grant will be announced within days, not weeks. When it is announced, the Opposition will see that, as well as generously funding public health, we will be funding an extra £900 million on drugs spending to transform treatment and an extra £300 million through the Start for Life programme. We will continue to ramp up support for public health.

NHS Workforce Expansion

Andrew Gwynne Excerpts

Tuesday 28th February 2023 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

I commend the powerful contributions from my hon. Friends the Members for Stretford and Urmston (Andrew Western), for Wakefield (Simon Lightwood), for Bristol South (Karin Smyth), for Birkenhead (Mick Whitley), for Easington (Grahame Morris), for Blackburn, for Stockton North (Alex Cunningham) and for Putney (Fleur Anderson), as well as the hon. Member for St Albans (Daisy Cooper). We also heard speeches from the hon. Members for Newcastle-under-Lyme (Aaron Bell) and for Mansfield (Ben Bradley), although most of the parliamentary Conservative party seem to be absent today.

Before he became Chancellor, the right hon. Member for South West Surrey (Jeremy Hunt) sent an email in which he addressed Labour’s NHS workforce plan. He said:

“Smart Governments”—

chance would be a fine thing with this lot—

“always nick the best ideas of their opponents.”

It has been interesting to watch those on the Government Benches tying themselves in knots to try to unpick our workforce strategy when they know that their Chancellor privately supports it and will, in all likelihood, be forced to swallow his pride and nick it sooner rather than later. They do so to try to mask the depressing truth: they have no plan and have not had one for years.

The NHS has a current shortage of 9,000 hospital doctors and 47,000 nurses. Staff are at breaking point and patients are being failed on an unprecedented scale. Some 7 million people—let that sink in—are waiting months and even years for treatment. Heart attack and stroke victims are routinely waiting over three hours for an ambulance. Patients are finding it impossible to get a GP appointment when they need one. The system is in crisis and the Government will not even admit it, let alone address it. I do not know what cloud cuckoo world the Minister who opened this debate is living in, but it is not the one that my constituents live in and I suspect it is not the one her constituents live in. The reality is that they have cut medical school places and wasted precious time trying to force through an unworkable and unethical Bill to sack striking nurses. They have had 13 years and the best they can do when faced with an acute workforce shortage is threaten to sack NHS staff, an idea that would be farcical if it were not so dangerous.

In the absence of a coherent Government strategy, there are already rumblings on the Tory Back Benches about the future of the NHS. Just a few months ago, a former Health Secretary said he thought that the NHS should start charging for A&E and GP visits. The absolute brass neck of it! To neglect a service for 13 years, fail to train the necessary staff, systematically mismanage it, and then pretend there is no alternative but to charge patients money to fix the mess they made. Not on Labour’s watch. The core principle of the NHS—a publicly funded service, free at the point of need—is non-negotiable. The problem is not the NHS; the problem is how it has been managed by this out-of-touch and out-of-ideas Government.

It is worth saying it over and again: Labour has a plan to build an NHS fit for the future. We would double the number of medical school places to 15,000 a year; double the number of district nurses qualifying each year; train 5,000 new health visitors; and create 10,000 more nursing and midwifery placements each year. We would train 8,500 mental health professionals and put hubs into the heart of our communities, so that people can access vital mental health treatment within a year. That would come alongside a 10-year strategy for change and modernisation within our NHS. It would be funded by abolishing the non-dom tax status, because patients need treatment more than the wealthiest need a tax break. I hope that in her response the Minister will give clarity on why the Government have decided to side with the non-doms rather than the nurses.

[Aaron Bell]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Andrew Gwynne]

I will not give way.

I appreciate that scrapping the non-dom tax status might be awkward for the Chancellor’s relationship with his next-door neighbour, but I fail to see how he, or indeed any hon. Member on the Government Benches, can justify inaction. In fact, I fail to see how anyone can look at the state of our national health service and vote for non-doms over NHS staff. On that, I will give way to the non-dom-loving hon. Gentleman.

[Aaron Bell]

I would like to inquire whether the Labour party takes donations from non-doms, because the Leader of the Opposition and the shadow Chancellor have refused to rule it out. Does the Labour party take donations from non-doms?

[Andrew Gwynne]

The point is that we will tax them. I do not know what the hon. Gentleman is getting at. Perhaps he should give an intervention on something he knows about, rather than something he does not. Siding with the non-doms is the position of this Tory Government.

When the Minister stands up to speak, she will reheat the lukewarm excuses from a Government allergic to accountability. She will blame the pandemic—we have heard it before—even though waiting lists were at a record high before covid hit these shores. She will blame striking NHS staff, conveniently ignoring that her Government do not have the decency even to talk to staff about pay. For months, she could have averted the strike action. She will blame anyone but herself and her Government. She will not mention the 13 years they have had in power. Instead, she will talk as if she has only just started on the job. “A plan is coming,” she will say, while this rudderless Government flip-flop around behind the scenes and patients continue to wait in agony.

Why should the people of this country have to settle for such mediocrity? The NHS is an institution that, if run properly, can and should be the envy of the world. Things do not have to be this way. The last Labour Government left office with the lowest waiting times and the highest patient satisfaction on record. That golden legacy has been torched by the Tories. I do not trust the arsonists to put out the fire, and neither do the British public.

If after telling Conservative MPs to vote against our plan, the Chancellor does decide to nick our workforce strategy, my hon. Friend the Member for Ilford North (Wes Streeting) and I will be delighted, because it will prove once and for all that there really is no point in this clapped-out Government if all they do is dither, delay, U-turn and nab Labour’s policy anyway.

In closing, I suggest that it would be much better for this zombie Government to move out of the way, call a general election and let the next Labour Government get on with the job of rebuilding our country after 13 years of Tory managed decline. Until then, Labour’s message to patients is clear: the cavalry is coming. We will give the NHS the staff, the tools and the technology that it needs to thrive. That will come alongside a relentless mission to improve patient standards and reform the systems within the NHS that are currently failing patients. We will build an NHS fit for the future; we have done it before and we will do it again. I commend our motion to the House.

Oral Answers to Questions

Andrew Gwynne Excerpts

Thursday 9th February 2023 Commons Chamber

[Ms Ghani]

My hon. Friend proudly represents Teconnex as a firm in his constituency. The Department is keen to support all businesses that seek to invest or expand in the UK, particularly those that can help to spread jobs and opportunities across the UK and help us to deliver net zero. The Department is working across Government; we have previous Business Ministers here, and we are very close to the automotive sector and the supply chain. The new Department will ensure that there is a single, coherent voice for business inside Government to help my hon. Friend to represent business in his constituency.

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

The investment in Moderna will not be worth anything if we do not have the precision temperature-calibrated machinery to help with that development. SK Wiring in Denton is the UK’s only manufacturer of that high-tech wiring. It stayed open during the pandemic, even though it lost 70% of its industrial trade, to keep the covid vaccine going and keep the NHS going. It is now at risk of closure. Can we have an urgent meeting so that we can keep this critical national infrastructure developed in Britain?

[Ms Ghani]

Within the life sciences missions, manufacturing is a key point. I was at the life sciences conference in San Francisco when we finalised the deal with Moderna. Of course this is not about playing politics; I am more than happy to meet the firm in the hon. Gentleman’s constituency, because vaccine manufacturing will be a key growth area for us.