Inheritance Tax Relief: Farms

Alec Shelbrooke Excerpts

Monday 10th February 2025 Westminster Hall

[John Lamont (Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve with you in the Chair, Sir Edward. Today I will highlight the shortsighted, reckless and misguided Labour policy to increase tax on farmers. I start by paying tribute to the petitioner for raising this important issue, and to the hundreds if not thousands of farmers outside this place showing how much they hate the policy.

It is an issue that has dismayed and appalled my constituents in the Scottish Borders. They are bitterly disappointed because this decision by the Prime Minister will mean the sad—even tragic—end of many family farms. Many farmers will no longer be able to pass their property, on which their ancestors may have worked for decades or longer, on to the next generation. That is not right. It is not why they have worked so hard to look after the countryside, and why they have got up early and worked late all their days.

What makes it worse is that they feel betrayed by a Labour Government that promised this would not happen. Labour made it abundantly clear that it would not increase taxes on farmers. But just like with the winter fuel payment to pensioners, and national insurance rises on businesses, Labour did not tell the truth. It broke its promises, and the consequences of it not keeping its word will be profound to people in the Borders, Scotland and the United Kingdom.

It is not only farmers in my constituency that the policy impacts, nor only workers in the rural economy, nor businesses in the food and drink industry. If the policy continues, it will affect everyone in one way or another. Labour’s decision will force the breaking up of many family farms, which will be tragic for those families. But it will also mean higher prices in shops and supermarkets for the rest of us. It will put our food security at risk and harm the environment, as we are forced to rely on costly imports that are not as high quality and that are flown in from much further away. How does any of that make sense?

[Sir Alec Shelbrooke (Wetherby and Easingwold) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend share my concern that, with the Government showing their inability to crack a good deal when they go into negotiations, they may well give in on any potential trade deal with America and allow cheaper products to undermine our beef and chicken farms?

[John Lamont]

My right hon. Friend makes an important point. If we are no longer self-sufficient in food production, we will become much more dependent on lower quality overseas imports.

Labour has made a grave error, which will cost our farmers and our country dearly. That is why so many people in the borders and across the whole United Kingdom are concerned by this decision. It will have negative consequences that last generations, and that may not be reparable. Unlike any other businesses, farms cannot come back once they close; they are often gone for good.

Labour simply is not listening. The Government even admitted as much to me lately: I submitted a question to the Secretary of State for DEFRA to ask how much correspondence his Department had received from individuals making representations on changes to APR and business property relief for inheritance tax since October, and the only response I got was that Ministers do not know—they do not have this information. That shows a stunning lack of respect for farmers and food producers. The Labour Government simply do not care.

Labour needs to rethink its family farm tax policy. Labour said “change” often enough in the run-up to the general election, and that is exactly what needs to happen now: this deeply damaging policy needs to change. It needs to be scrapped, or family farms will be lost, supermarket prices will go up, food security will be at risk and our environment will suffer. The Scottish and British people have spoken on this policy; now, Labour needs to listen.

Agricultural and Business Property Relief

Alec Shelbrooke Excerpts

Tuesday 14th January 2025 Westminster Hall

[Graham Stuart (Beverley and Holderness) (Con)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the impact of planned changes to agricultural property relief and business property relief on small businesses.

It is pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Dr Allin-Khan, and to see so many colleagues from across the House here today. Perhaps it is not surprising that we have a redoubtable Minister, who picks up the poisoned chalice on so many occasions. He will do so today, no doubt both well informed and with good humour, as he has done previously.

I refer to my declaration in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests as a recipient of campaign donations from businesses and farmers across Beverley and Holderness. Given the rural nature of my seat, I will start by focusing on the twin impacts of the changes to agricultural property relief and business property relief on family farms, followed by the impact of changes to BPR on family businesses. We have just a half-hour debate, and a colleague asked the good question of why it was so short for something so big. That means I will probably be the sole speaker, but I am happy to take as many interventions as I can, because I know that concern is widespread.

In her autumn Budget, the Chancellor announced a significant change to APR and BPR, set to take effect from April 2026. She is imposing a 20% tax on the value of land and machinery exceeding £1 million. That is known by many of us as a family farm tax. By the Government’s own estimate, it could result in one farm closing in every rural constituency every year.

[Sir Alec Shelbrooke (Wetherby and Easingwold) (Con)]

I thank my right hon. Friend for securing this debate. I also draw attention to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests. When a small farm has been in a family for generations, that family knows the local watercourses better than anybody else. Does my right hon. Friend share my concern that as those small farms disappear and move towards development, flooding issues may result because the local knowledge that would prevent flooding will be lost?

[Graham Stuart]

I thank my right hon. Friend for that intervention. On Friday, I visited Ian and Rebecca at Bygott farm just outside Beverley, which is about 220 acres. Their profits would be wiped out by the expected inheritance tax for 10 full years, with 10 years to pay it. The expected annual payment for 10 years would be greater than their profit last year. They also play that vital role, which my right hon. Friend mentioned, of looking after the watercourses. The villagers nearby do not know what a critical part they play in maintaining those watercourses.

Farming and Inheritance Tax

Alec Shelbrooke Excerpts

Wednesday 4th December 2024 Commons Chamber

[Victoria Atkins]

I thank the hon. Lady sincerely for raising that point, because she has—perhaps unwittingly—identified a contradiction in DEFRA’s own claims. It talks about a £300 million underspend, but last week it was cancelling the very capital grants that farmers around the country have been investing in, saying that it had run out of money. Well, it cannot be both. Perhaps that is yet another example of the cockeyed accounting of the Chancellor and the Environment Secretary.

[Sir Alec Shelbrooke (Wetherby and Easingwold) (Con)]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that what is quite frightening about this policy is that perhaps the Government know exactly what they are doing, and that, a bit like “Animal Farm”, they think everything should be collectivised?

[Victoria Atkins]

My right hon. Friend, who has a wonderful way with words, asks a question that many members of rural communities up and down the United Kingdom are asking themselves. In fact, when the Prime Minister did regional media a couple of weeks ago, Sean Dunderdale, the wonderful presenter on BBC Radio Lincolnshire, asked him what he had got against the people of Lincolnshire. I might ask: what have this Labour Government got against the countryside?

Independent Schools: VAT and Business Rates Exemptions

Alec Shelbrooke Excerpts

Tuesday 8th October 2024 Westminster Hall

[Sir Alec Shelbrooke (Wetherby and Easingwold) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Dame Caroline. The Government are about to realise the reality of governance over manifesto ideology. Fundamentally, this policy will remove the ability of people to send their children to local primary schools as places get filled by those who currently can just about afford to use private schools. As there is limited time, I have a series of questions that I would like to put to the Minister. To be fair to him, this is not his Department—education Ministers are running away from their policy—so I doubt he will be able to answer them today, but perhaps he can take them away. Some of them have been covered, but I think it is important to get them on the record.

Will the Minister confirm whether a low-income family whose child is in receipt of a bursary would be liable for VAT on the total school fees? Would a staff member in receipt of an employee discount on fees also be liable? With boarding schools already at 86% capacity and some already withdrawing from the market, will the continuity of education allowance for military families still be able to house the 4,200 who currently use it? Will arts schools be exempt? If so, and we are starting to exempt schools, is this even legal? If we do not exempt art schools, that means people who have the talent to go will have to be in the vicinity of the school or travel. That is going to withdraw a huge amount of opportunity from those in the arts sector.

What mitigation is there going to be for the financial planning of international pupils? They have a choice of a global market. As my hon. Friend the Member for Bromsgrove (Bradley Thomas) mentioned, this is a £2.1 billion export market. Again, is it going to be legal to exempt certain schools, such as those involved with SEND provision? What impact will there be on council budgets? There is an issue for those of us who represent vast rural communities: if children are taken out of the private sector and put into the state sector, the state will to have to fund the transport for those children to go to school. Upon whose budget will that fall? Fundamentally —there is evidence of this from every council—if primary schools are already close to capacity, will the state pay to put those children into private places? Will parents then be taxed on that as an in-kind benefit or will the law be retrospectively changed—which, of course, would suit the Prime Minister and a lot of people with free wardrobes?

--- Later in debate ---

[Nigel Huddleston (Droitwich and Evesham) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship today, Dame Caroline. May I first congratulate my hon. Friend and constituency neighbour, the Member for Bromsgrove (Bradley Thomas) on securing this important debate? I thank all those who have participated today; we have heard some very insightful contributions. I am also glad to have the shadow Secretary of State for Education, my right hon. Friend the Member for East Hampshire (Damian Hinds), sitting beside me today.

We can see from the large number of contributions, particularly from Opposition Members, how important this issue is to Members and their constituents, many of whom are greatly distressed by the Government’s proposals. We believe they are flawed in both design and execution, or at least planned execution, which is perhaps why so few Members from the Government party are here to defend them today. The policy will move away from a long-held principle that educational services are not taxed in this country, or in most developed economies. We have five broad categories of concern: the impact on state schools, the impact on overall Government finances, the timing of the proposals, consideration of exemptions, and the impact on SEND and EHCP provision. I shall turn to each of these briefly.

First, it is clear that the policy will have a detrimental impact not only on the independent sector, but on the state sector. The imposition of a 20% VAT tax hike overnight will clearly mean that some families will no longer be able to afford the fees. That is basic economics. In addition, the imposition of business rates will further disrupt the business model of independent schools and make less money available for bursaries and subsidies, which many parents rely on. Inevitably, that will mean children leaving the private sector and moving to the state system, putting an additional burden on many state schools, some of which do not have the capacity. It will also make fewer spaces available at good and outstanding local state schools where spaces would otherwise have been available, because more pupils would have taken the independent route. This is not a fear or scaremongering; this is reality. It is happening now.

According to the Independent Schools Council, more than 10,000 pupils have already been pulled from independent schools. One think-tank has estimated that far from bringing additional money into the Treasury, the policy could cost the taxpayer £1.6 billion, which brings me to my second point about the impact on overall Government finances.

Out of total Government spending of more than £1.2 trillion, is this policy really the top target of the new Government? It smacks of the politics of envy, not of careful deliberation and consideration of evidence. On the topic of overall Government finances, will the Department for Education get more funding from the Treasury if the number of state pupils exceeds expectations, or will they be expected to pay for it within existing budgets? Have the Government set aside capital for additional new school places if that is needed?

Regarding the timing of the proposals, it is unfathomable why the Government are considering introducing this policy in the middle of the school year. Why? It does not make any sense to cause so much mid-year disruption to so many schools, pupils and families.

[Sir Alec Shelbrooke]

This will clearly be open to legal challenge, which stands very little chance of being in the courts within the next three months. As it gets held up, will this policy not cause mass disruption by being introduced in the middle of the academic year?

[Nigel Huddleston]

My right hon. Friend raises another important point, and I believe some legal challenges are already in place. Regarding timing, is the Minister truly confident that the policy could be implemented within weeks? Is His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs adequately resourced and prepared for it? Is the legislation ready? Is the legislation and guidance sufficiently clear? Even if the answer to all of the above is yes, is it fair on independent schools to expect them to suddenly get their heads around new legislation, register for VAT, implement new systems and processes, and logistically carry out the execution of this policy, all before Christmas? The answer is clearly no. I implore the Minister at least to delay the implementation, and carefully consider some exemptions and special considerations, my fourth category of concerns, which have been raised by many hon. Members today.

The rushed policy appears not to have properly considered carve-outs for pupils from military families, students on the music and dance scheme, children attending small or small faith schools, those paying low fees or who are on bursaries, or children in exam years who may have to move to another school that does not offer their current subject, offers different syllabuses, or has different examination boards. I hope that when we finally see the impact assessment, we will see some consideration of those matters.

My fifth category of concern is what consideration has been given to pupils with special educational needs and those with an EHCP or who are in the process of getting an EHCP.

UK Infrastructure Bank Bill [ Lords ] (First sitting)

Alec Shelbrooke Excerpts

Committee stage
Tuesday 22nd November 2022 Public Bill Committees

[Abena Oppong-Asare (Erith and Thamesmead) (Lab)]

Good morning, Mr Davies. It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship. Good morning to the rest of the Committee. I look forward to our debate today. I think that this will be a productive conversation. I also use this opportunity to formally congratulate the new Minister.

Before I turn to clause 2, I want to say in my opening remarks that Britain has so much potential, but right now we are facing—and I want to put this on record—a Tory economic crisis that is holding us back. To get our economy growing again, we will need to see investment in infrastructure projects and create highly-skilled, well-paid jobs and tackle climate change in a modern industrial strategy, working hand in hand with businesses.

I also want to put on record my reassurance to the hon. Member for North East Bedfordshire that Labour is well represented on these issues. Members will see that through our ideas and what we are proposing today, which will strengthen this Bill. Also, it is really important that we recognise that there has been a lost decade of broken Tory promises that have left much of the UK with second-rate infrastructure. That is why Labour supports strengthening the Bill, but much of the Bill as it stands relies on out-of-date thinking. That is why we are proposing amendments today.

[Alec Shelbrooke (Elmet and Rothwell) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Davies. In terms of investment in infrastructure, the last Labour Government did invest in hospitals and schools and, through the private finance initiative, left the country with bills that were 10 times the cost of building the hospitals. On reflection, does the hon. Lady believe that was a mistake?

[The Chair]

Order. We are in danger of drifting outside the scope of the amendment. Please do respond, but let us not have a general debate on this.

[Abena Oppong-Asare]

I thank the right hon. Member for Elmet and Rothwell for his comments. However, we have had a Tory Government for 12 years. We are in the middle of an economic crisis.

[Alec Shelbrooke]

Twenty-five billion pounds—

[The Chair]

Order.

--- Later in debate ---

[David Linden (Glasgow East) (SNP)]

Bore da, Mr Davies. It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship. Aside from one issue that I would split hairs about on amendment 17 —Scotland is not a region, but a nation, so the amendment should read “regions and nations of the United Kingdom”—I have another point to object to. The bank’s strategic objectives include tackling climate change, and it is vital that the Scottish Government’s climate change targets be reflected in the Bill, so I take a wee bit of issue with points made by the hon. Member for South Ribble about the UK’s “world-leading” climate change legislation; it legislates for net zero by 2050, whereas in Scotland it is 2045. I wanted to make that point on the record.

Given the significant overlap between the strategic objectives of the UK Infrastructure Bank and those of the Scottish National Investment Bank, a mechanism must be in place to ensure alignment on how the objectives are reached. I would be grateful if the Minister provided a little more clarity on that when he sums up. However, if His Majesty’s loyal Opposition intend to press the amendment to a vote, they can be assured of the support of the Scottish National party.

[Alec Shelbrooke]

On reducing economic and other inequalities between regions of the United Kingdom, I first make the point that if the bank is to be located in my home city of Leeds, in Yorkshire, and is to invest in the region, it follows that Northern Powerhouse Rail has not been cancelled.

I have risen to speak simply because an intervention on the Minister would have been too long. The Opposition parties almost seem to be tabling amendments for amendments’ sake. To state the obvious about the whole point of this policy, I do not, to use a phrase, need a weatherman to tell me when it is raining. The Infrastructure Bank will already do exactly what is in the amendments.

On the green industrial strategy, the reality is that a multi-billion-pound industry, with hundreds of thousands of jobs in the offshore wind industry, has been created since we came to power in 2010. It is simply mistaken to suggest otherwise. When we look at the track record of this Government over the past 12 years, there is much that I am exceptionally proud of. We have changed the energy strategy of this country. Sometimes, we produce well over 50% of our electricity through renewable means. All that has come about through investment in infrastructure.

I believe that amendments 17 and 18 were tabled simply to develop an argument with a weak foundation that does not stand up when we look at the physical outcomes from the past 12 years. I will finish with that—

[David Linden]

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

[The Chair]

Will you take the intervention?

[Alec Shelbrooke]

I will, because I like the hon. Member for Glasgow East, but I had wrapped up my comments.

[David Linden]

My stock in the SNP has just fallen through the floor. The hon. Gentleman said that we do not need a weatherman to tell us what the weather is outside, but over the past seven or eight weeks, the UK Government have flip-flopped on their policy on energy, and specifically on their fracking policy, in a major departure from the 2019 manifesto. Given the instability of the UK Government and the changes in various weather people, it might not be a bad thing to put something about this in the Bill.

[Alec Shelbrooke]

I am always grateful for the hon. Gentleman’s input. Personally, I believe we should get on with fracking, and I have licences in my constituency, but that is a decision for the local authority. Often with such plans, local authorities are far better placed to understand the needs and issues than people down in Westminster.

On the green industrial strategy and the increase in fossil fuels—I know we are straying slightly from the subject—the investment in the green strategy that is being made by this Government is clear to see, but we cannot let our fossil fuel supply fall off a cliff and disappear overnight, and send people’s bills through the roof. That strategy and this policy are a key plank in ensuring that we move towards where we all want to be, while ensuring that we have the investments and structures in place and are clear about the target we are aiming for. Fundamentally, this Government have a proud track record on this matter, and amendments 17 and 18 are surplus to requirements.

Economic Update

Alec Shelbrooke Excerpts

Monday 11th January 2021 Commons Chamber

[Rishi Sunak]

I am not aware of any science or feedback showing that that scheme is not doing what it needs to do. The £500 is means-tested, it provides support and it has increased in real value as the number of days people are required to isolate has reduced.

[Alec Shelbrooke (Elmet and Rothwell) (Con) [V]]

A constituent approached me to say that many supply teachers working through agencies are not being furloughed because schools are open to key worker children, yet those supply teachers are not being called into schools because most year groups are learning remotely. Will my right hon. Friend look at flexibility within the furlough scheme in this area, similar to last time, to assist agency workers?

[Rishi Sunak]

I would be very happy to look at the specific point my right hon. Friend raises.

UK-EU Future Relationship Negotiations and Transition Period

Alec Shelbrooke Excerpts

Monday 7th December 2020 Commons Chamber

[Penny Mordaunt]

I hope that if the EU negotiating team have not heard the resolve of Members on these Benches this afternoon, they will have heard the resolve of my hon. Friend’s constituents. It is absolutely right that this has been confirmed not just in a referendum, but in a general election, giving a very clear mandate about what the British people expect us to deliver on. As we enter the final stages of these negotiations, I hope that is well understood by the other negotiating team, and the sooner they come to terms with that and the Prime Minister’s resolve, the sooner we will be able to get a deal.

[Alec Shelbrooke (Elmet and Rothwell) (Con)]

Can I first congratulate my right hon. Friend on the work she has done in getting the country ready for the new regulations that are coming at the end of this month? I must admit that it seems a bit like the millennium bug, when everybody thought it was going to be a disaster, but we did the prep work and got there in the end. Could I ask her what plans she has in place for other things that may happen between now and 31 December that businesses will need to be ready for and what action plan she has, because the work she has done so far has been outstanding and I would not want it to stumble at the last hurdle?

North of England: Infrastructure Spending

Alec Shelbrooke Excerpts

Wednesday 25th November 2020 Westminster Hall

[Alec Shelbrooke (Elmet and Rothwell) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Gray, and I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Southport (Damien Moore) on introducing this important debate.

I want to build on what my right hon. Friend the Member for Tatton (Esther McVey) has just said, although I both agree and disagree with it. HS2 and other big projects are important, but I think she was saying that they cannot be exclusive, and they must form part of a bigger picture. She is absolutely right that this is not just about transport links and that fibre broadband infrastructure is going to be revolutionary. Many of us have noticed during lockdown just how difficult it can be at certain points in the day even to open emails. That stands in stark contrast to what needs to be done.

My view on infrastructure, as laid out in a paper I hope to publish shortly, is that we must look to the short, medium and long terms. This is where I differ from my right hon. Friend: I believe there is value in the long-term projects, which will take a long time to build, although it is vital that we have these small, short projects, which are sometimes as simple as 1 km of train track that completely opens up different rail routes. There are lots of those around the Liverpool area, I understand. My hon. Friends might be able to build on those comments.

There are medium-term projects such as light rail infrastructure around my city of Leeds—something that has been in the offing for decades and where money has been supplied, but we have been talked out of it because the project is too difficult and upsets too many people. These things need to happen. However, I want to focus on the main big projects over the long term, which really make a difference, and on particular issues that will be in the report we are producing soon.

In the north of England we are lucky in our maritime position, with the port of Hull and the port of Liverpool. If the globe were tilted to give the relevant perspective, it would show that that corridor is more linked into mainland Europe than the other corridors are. Germany has been able to adapt its economy regularly as the world has changed and moved forward, and the one fundamental truth about where and why that happens is the River Rhine. It is a huge transport link, and a lot of engineering work has been done to link it to other rivers.

Of course, we do not have that between Liverpool and Hull. The canal system was built, but that is not what I am talking about. We need to look at a fundamental freight rail transport system that is akin to what the River Rhine does for commerce in central Europe and Germany. That is there to be built on. On that route, we could build inland freeports, to which the railway freight would be brought from, say, Hull, having come out of Europe. With value-added engineering in tax-free freeports, it would go back on the railway, over to the port of Liverpool and off round the rest of the world—or vice versa, coming back the other way.

We must think in the short, medium and long term, but the long-term projects, which will cost a huge amount of money, need to be really transformational and to put the country in a place that we have not been in before. Is that blue-sky thinking? Is it dreaming? Maybe, but it has to be the ambition. That would go a long way, through infrastructure, towards levelling up the north of England.

--- Later in debate ---

[Christian Wakeford (Bury South) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Gradually. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Southport (Damien Moore). I do emphasise the term “Friend” because we go way back—before either of us took up a seat in this place.

I will start by touching on a point highlighted by the hon. Member for Weaver Vale (Mike Amesbury): this is about not only hard infrastructure, but soft infrastructure. Unfortunately, I think he was approaching this from the wrong angle, and I much prefer the approach of my hon. Friend the Member for Sedgefield (Paul Howell).

We think of infrastructure very much in terms of concrete, new roads and new rail links. To me, that is not what infrastructure is, or what levelling up is about; for me, it is about education, skills and those communities that we represent. How many times do we speak about large-scale planning applications and then say that there is no real infrastructure to support them, when what we actually mean is that there are no schools, doctors, dentists and real economic centres to support thousands of new homes? That is not just an approach that the Treasury needs to take when moving forward, but an approach that planning policy needs to adapt to to fully understand what is going on in our communities.

The white elephant of HS2 has been raised already in the debate. I have spoken in favour of it previously, and it is the right kind of approach. However, we cannot think of all roads leading to London, because that is a falsehood. People from the north should not be forced to choose between HS2 or HS3, just as the people of London were not forced to choose between Crossrail and Crossrail 2; they were able to have both, and they were able to have their cake and eat it—that is the point of having cake.

We do not necessarily want a quicker journey to London—again, it is a falsehood that HS2 is framed in terms of speed rather than capacity—but we do need to ensure that our northern towns and cities are linked together so that we can truly make the northern communities the economic powerhouse.

[Alec Shelbrooke]

My hon. Friend is talking about HS2 and linking northern cities. There is a delay coming on phase 2b, as we have heard. Does he agree that we should look at this creatively and extend HS3 from Manchester to Leeds, so that we do not have to wait decades to link up northern cities?

[Christian Wakeford]

I completely agree with my right hon. Friend; in fact, he framed that argument so succinctly that I do not need to add to it. As I said, the choice between HS2 and HS3 is a fallacy; we can, and should, have both.

In terms of the view that all roads lead to London, the economy is not driven by London; the economy is growing more and faster in the north than anywhere else in the country, and we need to support that.

Much of this east-west connectivity is also driven by the private sector. Drax wants to improve east-west connectivity so that it can ship its fuel source from Liverpool over to Hull. That is part of our green infrastructure recovery; it is about not just greener fuel but carbon capture, which is intrinsic to meeting our net zero target. When we focus on our infrastructure for the north, it truly has to be a soft infrastructure-led, community-led and community-driven process that we are all part of .

--- Later in debate ---

[Richard Thomson (Gordon) (SNP)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Gray. I congratulate the hon. Member for Southport (Damien Moore) on securing this important debate. I heard one or two murmurs as I came into the Committee this morning: “What on earth is an SNP member for the north-east of Scotland doing intruding on a debate like this?” Let me put hon. Members’ minds at rest: it is not to provoke a regeneration of the Wars of the Roses. I think some Members have been quite capable of stirring that up all by themselves, and I take no sides; I am strictly neutral in that. However, it quite simple for me: whether Scotland is inside the UK, as everybody else in this room presumably hopes, or outside the UK, as I earnestly hope it will be, the infrastructure—particularly the transport infrastructure—in the north of England matters to us as well. There are extensive business and family connections between Scotland and the north of England—or not-the-north-of-England, depending on whether we include Stoke-on-Trent, and where we draw the demarcation.

The north of England lies between us and markets in the south of England, as well as crucial markets in Europe, so it matters to us that the A1 is so poor after Berwick, and between Berwick and Newcastle. It matters to us that the A66 between Penrith and Scotch Corner, which gives access to Yorkshire and the east midlands, should be accessible in all weathers. In that respect, what matters to people in Scotland probably matters as much to the communities all along those corridors. Particularly important is the discussion about what goes where, to what timescale and, crucially—as noted by the hon. Members for Blackpool North and Cleveleys (Paul Maynard) and for Weaver Vale (Mike Amesbury), who is no longer in his place—who gets to decide. It is not just about existing infrastructure; future infrastructure in Scotland is also affected by what is or is not decided for the north of England and the rest of the UK.

Let me return to the subject of HS2. It is clear that there are diverse views in the governing party on the merits or otherwise of HS2, perhaps governed in some part by how close MPs are likely to be to a station on the route that is chosen. For us in Scotland, however, it is quite simple: there is a real benefit in relation to climate. If we can get the journey from Edinburgh, Glasgow and other parts of central Scotland to London below four hours, that is an absolute game changer. Nobody would fly, unless they were going somewhere close to the airport. If somebody is going from central Scotland to central London, of course they would take a high-speed train. It is a game changer.

[Alec Shelbrooke]

I have a genuine question. The hon. Gentleman will have heard the speculation about a link between Northern Ireland and Scotland, and what strikes me is the ability to build a high-speed railway between Belfast and Glasgow, and then down the west coast to London. I am genuinely interested in the hon. Gentleman’s thoughts on that.

[Richard Thomson]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his intervention. Not so much in Scottish politics, but certainly in Northern Irish politics, it is a bit of a standing joke that whenever a bauble needs to be dangled, there is talk of a bridge between Scotland and Northern Ireland. There are tremendous technical challenges with that going over Beaufort’s dyke, which is exceptionally deep and full of munitions. Technically, it would be extraordinarily challenging. However the Green Book formula works out, I do not think we will ever see a benefit-cost ratio that will make such a project work, but I am content to let the accountants and number crunchers work that one out. Certainly, in theory, if we could create better connections in the south-west of Scotland and link Northern Ireland to Scotland and elsewhere, I am all in favour of that.

On HS2, if the line is to split either side of the Pennines, it is pretty important to us in Scotland to know on which side of the Pennines it will go. If it goes both sides, logically it is going to head north more slowly than it would otherwise. That matters, because if it goes by Carlisle, we would build a high-speed rail network in Scotland between Glasgow, Edinburgh and Carlisle. If it goes up through Newcastle, we would link Glasgow to Edinburgh and Berwick, and go down that way. Frankly, there is no point spending any money until there is absolute certainty about which way the line will go. That affects the rest of Scotland, because we would be building new infrastructure that would free up train paths capacity and give line speed improvements for the rest of the rail network in Scotland to get into Edinburgh and Glasgow, so the decisions that are or are not taken also matter to us.

There is little doubt that if HS2 had started in Scotland to go to London, rather than t’other way about, it would have happened a great deal faster than it now appears to be happening. That sums up the problem. We can change the formulas in the Treasury’s Green Book, but changing attitudes is another matter entirely. The Prime Minister once notoriously stated that a pound spent in Croydon was worth more than a pound spent in Strathclyde, and I think we can take it that such an attitude also prevails for Merseyside, Manchester and Tyneside. It is quite an embedded mindset in the British Government class—I do not think it is as rare as some hon. Members might wish to think. We will hear later today about the Chancellor’s spending plans and see what transpires.

My final observation is that since 1999, under various shades of political administration, Scottish Governments—whether the Lib-Lab coalition, minority SNP or majority SNP—have moved on investment in Scotland considerably better than in the bad old days of rule from the Scotland Office and Westminster. That is why it is crucial where decisions are taken and why devolution ought to be such an important part of this debate for the north of England.

The UK Internal Market Bill is set to encroach on many of Holyrood’s powers, including the power to set infrastructure spending. Under the guise of “taking back control”, the UK Government are in many respects actually taking away control, and I know it is not just people in my party who regret that that is the case. London clearly receives 60% more per head in capital expenditure than the north-east of England, and 50% more than the north-west. Ultimately, that dial needs to be shifted.

In conclusion, I strongly suspect that it will take a great deal more than today’s announcement to shift that decades-old structural imbalance in where power really lies in the UK, because that power imbalance has roots in politics and the electoral system, and it goes well beyond simple allocations of public expenditure.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jesse Norman]

—I have a bit of time left to spend talking about the specific comments that have been made, which have been extremely helpful and interesting. My hon. Friend the Member for Southport was absolutely right to encourage us to look at rural areas as well as cities. He painted an almost garden of Eden-like picture of life in Southport, where people stroll airily from flower shows to comedy festivals to air shows, while striking a mean four iron on Royal Birkdale. I thought that an exquisite moment in his speech. He rightly highlighted the importance of railway, the stronger towns fund and the freeports, which he will know we have announced, and from which the north could benefit hugely in this competition.

The hon. Member for Weaver Vale (Mike Amesbury) is no longer in his place but I thought that he was right to focus on devolution, which I touched on in earlier remarks. The point about the capillaries and arteries of infrastructure was well made by my right hon. Friend the Member for Tatton (Esther McVey). My right hon. Friend the Member for Elmet and Rothwell (Alec Shelbrooke) was absolutely right to focus on the short, medium and long term. As he will know, one of the great unsung heroes of transport policy over the last few years has been Sir Rod Eddington. His report was very much about managing smaller schemes—often enormously important and not to be forgotten—that move people, particularly in suburbs and areas of large volumes of traffic, by rail, road or other means, and it was absolutely right.

My right hon. Friend’s call for a new Rhine system of navigation in the north was optimistic, but I respect the intent and energy behind it. My hon. Friend the Member for Leigh (James Grundy) was right to pick up on light rail. When I was in the Department for Transport, we did a consultation on light rail, which has such great potential. It is extremely inexpensive compared with some of the heavier rail alternatives, and it could be a beautiful new industry for the UK to develop. We have a tremendous amount of relevant skills in the supply chain, and I very much look forward to hearing more about that from colleagues.

[Alec Shelbrooke]

If my right hon. Friend will indulge me for one second, we have had a good debate and many colleagues have participated. I just want to put on the record that some of our colleagues have been unable to contribute. For example, my hon. Friend the hon. Member for Pudsey (Stuart Andrew), who was unable to take part due to his commitments, is equally involved in infrastructure in the north, and his ambitions are there. I just want to get on the record that many colleagues in the north were unable to take part—I am sure the Minister will have responded to them—but they are as important in this conversation as the rest of us.

[Jesse Norman]

My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. The unheard voices are as important as the voices in the room. Of course, as he knows, my door remains absolutely open for them at any point, in this debate or otherwise.

My dear friend the hon. Member for Blackpool North and Cleveleys rightly raised the point about BCRs, which is an important technical point and they should not be abused. There is a certain art and craft to effective valuation assessment. The centre for it across Government is in the Department for Transport rather than in the Treasury. We have a great deal of respect for the work that they do there, although there is a very high level of understanding of industry in the Treasury, in a way that has not always been true. That means we get a better client relationship between the two sides, or a better interaction between the Ministries, the Departments, and the centre.

My hon. Friend the Member for Sedgefield (Paul Howell) raised the idea of a funding pot for MPs, which I have to say raises all kinds of worries in me. We have been there before in our history some 100 years ago, so I am a little bit nervous about that, but the idea that there should be significant political leadership in making choices, and accountability for that, is absolutely right. I think the stronger accounts fund is rather a good way of tying those elements together, so I do not disagree with him about that.

My hon. Friend the Member for Bury South (Christian Wakeford) talked about infrastructure of the mind, as I would call it. Skills are so important, but so easy to forget, and only to focus on transport, and he was absolutely right about that. I commend to him the work of the new university we are setting up in Hereford, which does exactly that. The importance of cultural infrastructure was mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for North West Durham (Mr Holden). I hope I have said enough to recognise the contributions otherwise made, so rather than overrun, I will allow my dear friend the Member for Southport to close the debate.

Future of Financial Services

Alec Shelbrooke Excerpts

Monday 9th November 2020 Commons Chamber

[Rishi Sunak]

The hon. Lady will have heard my previous answer about our plans to take forward initiatives on access to cash, and protecting it. The outstanding consultation will conclude shortly, and then we will decide on a future legislative strategy.

[Alec Shelbrooke (Elmet and Rothwell) (Con)]

My right hon. Friend has put in unprecedented help to people during this crisis, but tragically in my constituency almost 2,000 people have lost their jobs. Does he agree that, as he said in his statement, Leeds is a key financial hub in this country, and many of my constituents, if not employed directly in the financial services industry, are part of the support network around it? Does he also agree that the green bonds that come out will trickle down to small manufacturers, of which I have a plethora in my constituency? Will he push ahead with great speed on that, and how quickly does he think that he can get this recovery? What I have heard from him today, quite frankly, has been, “jobs, jobs, jobs.”

[Rishi Sunak]

My hon. Friend is right about the importance of Leeds to our financial services ecosystem in the UK, and about the importance of that industry to jobs in his local economy. We are keen to see the industry prosper across the country, in his constituency and elsewhere, and one thing that might be of interest to his constituents is the review that we are launching into the UK funds regime. That review will specifically consider whether, and how, fund domicile activity could be focused in specific UK areas to support our levelling-up agenda. I look forward to hearing my hon. Friend’s contributions to that, and I know that the industry in his area will continue to grow locally from strength to strength.

Public Health Restrictions: Government Economic Support

Alec Shelbrooke Excerpts

Tuesday 13th October 2020 Commons Chamber

[Steve Barclay]

If the hon. Lady looks at international comparators, she will see that the Government’s package of support—more than £200 billion—is generous. I point her to the job support scheme, for example. A number of colleagues across the House question whether the 67% is sufficient, but the point is that it is dynamic in conjunction with the additional funding that has been put into welfare. [Interruption.] If the hon. Lady lets me answer the question, she will hear that I am talking about the support for people in businesses that have closed, which is an issue that all colleagues across the House take very seriously. [Interruption.] Well, that applies to regional equality. Opposition Members may not like the answer, but the question was: how does the UK compare with international comparators. I am pointing to the fact that the package of measures put in place—the furlough at 80% for eight months—was much more generous than that of most other countries. The business support package, including business rents, tax deferrals, loans, such as the bounce back loans and help to grow loans—we can go through the full list—bears comparison. The question over the past 24 hours is whether the latest measures bear international comparison. The point I was making is that if one looks at the French, German, Italian and other schemes, the two thirds support for those businesses that are closed, coupled with a dynamic relationship with the support on universal credit does bear favourable comparison with those, which is why I stand by my comments that, internationally, the UK has a world-leading package.

[Alec Shelbrooke (Elmet and Rothwell) (Con) [V]]

Further to the question from my hon. Friend the Member for Dudley South (Mike Wood) and the right hon. Member for East Antrim (Sammy Wilson), the tier 2 restrictions on social mixing are cutting the legs away from the hospitality industry. Equally, even in tier 3, restaurants will not necessarily be closed, but the fact remains that people are just not going to them. May I implore my right hon. Friend to extend the £3,000 grant to all hospitality venues in tiers 2 and 3 regardless of whether they are told to close? The industry is dying, because people are trying to do the right thing and not mix. Chief Secretary, the industries are open in name only. Please look at extending the available help before the industry is destroyed.

[Steve Barclay]

I hear the concerns of my right hon. Friend, but there is a balance that needs to be struck between the comprehensive nature and the fiscal cost of the range of packages that we have put in place and the measures that we have taken to control the virus. The balance that we have struck, in line with the advice that we have received, is about balancing how we control the virus with the wider implications not only for the economy, but for non-covid health issues as well. That is the balance that we are striking. Of course it is attractive for him to say that we should keep spending more and more, but we have already committed more than £200 billion.