BBC Monitoring Service
Adam Jogee Excerpts(2 days, 15 hours ago)
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Sir Julian Lewis
I will give way first to the hon. Member for Halesowen (Alex Ballinger).
Sir Julian Lewis
I agree entirely, and before I give way for the next intervention, I will read what I had just been about to say.
The report’s main conclusion was that the Government should reinstate their previous model of funding BBC Monitoring through a ringfenced grant in aid, rather than allowing the funding to come from the licence fee. As a non-partisan, cross-party body, I doubt if today’s Defence Committee would take a radically different view. Indeed, we have just heard from the Foreign Affairs Committee representative that that view still has a great deal of validity.
Adam Jogee
I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for giving way, even if he chose my hon. Friend the Member for Halesowen (Alex Ballinger) before me. I wish to congratulate the right hon. Gentleman on the report, which I have in front of me. I note that only three colleagues who were on the Committee in 2016 are still in this House. The fact that he makes these points now, as he did almost 10 years ago, speaks to the challenge we face, as well as to the threats to our ability to tackle the geopolitical challenges to which he has referred and how we will be found wanting in that effort if we do not get this right, and get it right soon.
Sir Julian Lewis
It is very gratifying to an old timer like me to see a fresh generation of serious-minded hon. and right hon. Members from all parties so united on this common theme in the national interest. I will have to race on a bit now so as not to cut into the Minister’s time too much.
So far I have focused in large part on the negatives, as the House has heard, but all is not a picture of doom and gloom. Despite the substantial redundancies of 2016-17 after the reduction in licence fee funding and the closure of Caversham Park, an 11-year customer service agreement was signed with the Government, covering the period 2017 to 2027 inclusive. A business development team also succeeded in widening the commercial customer base and lessening, to some extent, the dependence on the licence fee.
Those in charge at BBC Monitoring are in no doubt of the importance of their mission. They point out in a most helpful briefing document that they provided to me that in today’s environment of intensifying information warfare, weaponised narratives and global instability, the value of BBC Monitoring’s work is more crucial than ever. They note:
“The global media landscape has undergone a profound transformation, driven by the rapid expansion of social media, the democratisation of content creation, and the accelerating capabilities of generative AI. These shifts have dramatically increased the volume and velocity of disinformation… In response, BBC Monitoring has evolved its editorial strategy, moving beyond translation and summarisation to deliver expert, evidence-based analysis. The introduction of data specialists has enabled the production of interactive maps, graphics, and other tools that help users navigate complex information environments.”
BBCM has expanded its coverage of Chinese, Russian and Iranian media influence operations, of jihadism, of climate change, of water and energy security, and of migration—all issues that are central to our national interests and foreign policy. Its products underpin the work of BBC journalism, particularly when reporting on countries where direct access is restricted or prohibited.
There is, in short, no question about the irreplaceable value inherent in the BBC Monitoring service. By securing this debate and sharing the contents of this speech in advance with the Minister, as I have, I aim to give the Government an opportunity to endorse its vital work tonight and perhaps shine a little light on some relevant aspects of that.
First, on its budget, at the time of the December 2016 Defence Committee report, the annual costs of BBCM were known, as I said earlier, to be a modest £25 million. What is its budget today, and what percentages of its income derive from the licence fee and from each of its other main funding sources? If the Minister cannot be too specific this evening, I would be grateful if he might write to me in more detail.
Secondly, now that the US Open Source Enterprise organisation is—most regrettably—no longer co-located with BBC Monitoring in the United Kingdom, what is the nature of the residual relationship between the two organisations? Do they no longer together cover the globe, freely exchanging their respective products, as in the days of Caversham Park? Does BBCM even see the OSE product? Does it have to pay for it and, if so, how much income does BBC Monitoring receive for supplying its output to the United States?
Thirdly, I understand that BBCM has taken some strides in introducing artificial intelligence into its modus operandi. How far does it expect that process to go, and will human expertise and judgment remain integral to its monitoring work?
Fourthly, while the restoration of an annual Government grant would be by far the most secure funding model, in the absence of that, is there any danger of BBC Monitoring being cut loose from the World Service organisation and farmed out insecurely to BBC Sounds, as has previously been mooted?
Finally, with a new agreement having to be negotiated with the Government before the expiry of the existing one in two years’ time, will the Minister please undertake to set out specific details of the target quantities of actual monitoring outputs—not to be conflated with analysis—specified under the existing agreement, and the extent to which those targets have, or have not, been achieved? Only in that way shall we know if our vital open source intelligence operation truly has the resources it needs.
The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Stephen Doughty)
I am extraordinarily grateful to the right hon. Member for New Forest East (Sir Julian Lewis) for securing this important debate and sharing his remarks with me in advance. I can assure him that things have changed a lot since Michael Foot. This Labour Government are proud to support our nuclear deterrent and invest in our defence. I pay tribute to the right hon. Member’s extensive and long-standing expertise on this issue and many other related issues, and I am grateful for all the contributions.
I can confirm that the Government share the right hon. Member’s view that BBC Monitoring is a vital national asset, as many colleagues across the House have expressed. Indeed, I declare an interest personally because I have been a substantial user of its services in the past and am an avid listener of the BBC World Service, so I can truly attest to its incredible services and the work of its staff. For over 80 years, it has provided indispensable insight into world events, shaping our understanding of the global landscape, and high-quality and independent analysis, supporting that integrity of information worldwide, which lots of Members touched upon. Of course, those contribute to the Government’s wider efforts to combat misinformation, disinformation and harmful narratives produced by malign actors, hostile states and others around the world. It also provides a crucial insight into the international media landscape, and that informs our national security work, our foreign policy and our ability to take action on the world stage.
We must be clear about BBC Monitoring’s present value. As has been referred to, it has unique linguistic skills and deep regional expertise to fulfil the task of analysing media from across the globe. Whether that is state broadcast, social media, local news sites or official statements, it provides that texture, nuance and ground truth that enrich the quality of the evidence underpinning policy making for us and many others. It also helps us understand the deeper messages that Governments and others, but also their own people and audiences, are saying around the world. The value of that work should not be underestimated and, indeed, it is valued by colleagues in not only the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office, but the Ministry of Defence and the Cabinet Office, as well as many others.
Of course, BBC Monitoring’s value is not confined to Whitehall; it is also an internal radar for the BBC itself. It identifies emerging narratives, spots developing stories, provides BBC News and the World Service with early warning, and helps them get ahead of the curve with their reporting and deeper conceptual analysis, so this is a symbiotic relationship. Of course, it also supports commercial partners and others with their insight and analysis. We fully endorse that service.
Although the BBC is responsible for the staffing, administration and editorial direction of the service, it is provided under a specific agreement—to which the right hon. Gentleman referred—between the BBC and the Government, enabling collaborative discussions about the Government’s priorities for BBC Monitoring to consider in its wider prioritisation. That provides us with the assurance that the service continues to evolve in line with the changing media environment and the need to understand it, and ensures that it continues to provide value for the licence fee payer and the nation.
The Cabinet Office is the lead Department, managing the relationship, while the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office provides ministerial oversight. Of course, as the right hon. Gentleman noted, the service is funded through the licence fee as part of the BBC’s public service remit. I am happy to write to him further on some of the details of the current funding arrangements. As I have mentioned, it derives some revenue from commercial customers and partnerships as well. It has many customers, including non-governmental organisations, intergovernmental and research bodies, media organisations, think-tanks and businesses. He asked how much the monitoring service costs the BBC. It has a range of funding streams, as I have set out, and ultimately it is for the BBC to approve the budget.
The right hon. Gentleman also asked about the relationship with Open Source Enterprise. I can confirm that the service maintains a strong and highly effective information-sharing partnership with OSE under an annually reviewed memorandum. The two organisations continue to work together to cover the globe and fill in their respective gaps. They share expertise and collaborate on technological innovation.
The right hon. Gentleman is right to focus on the future. We want to see BBC Monitoring thrive. A key part of that is ensuring that the organisation is not standing still. It is embracing new technology to enhance its capabilities, including by integrating AI into its workflows, in accordance of course with BBC permitted usage and protocols. That will see staff using cutting-edge tools to sift through vast quantities of data at speed, allowing analysts to focus on providing the high-level insight and nuanced judgment that human expertise alone can supply. That will mean a combination of human insight and AI. This is a rapidly changing field, and BBC Monitoring is testing AI tools to help journalists keep track of what is being said in different outlets—that follows BBC rules and is designed to give a broad overview of the landscape that they are reporting on—but I should reiterate that decisions will still be made by people, not by machines. Indeed, BBC staff undertake mandatory AI training courses.
At the same time, BBC Monitoring has chosen to focus on providing deeper insights and context in its work. It now produces fewer reports but each carries greater analytical value. In 2024, it produced 78,832 reports; that is a reduction on the original target but reflects a deliberate and sensible shift away from basic translation and summarising, and towards analysis that delivers real impact. Having used that service before, I can say that it really does provide critical insight. Reports do not always draw a clear line between monitoring and analysis, recognising that both are part of the same effort to understand narratives. I am pleased to see those advancements and I am sure that they will continue in the years ahead.
The existing charter is due to expire at the end of 2027, and that will be an opportunity, as has been discussed elsewhere, to consider a wide range of issues. That will ensure that the BBC has a sustainable funding model for all its important work, including BBC Monitoring. My colleagues in the Department for Culture, Media and Sport have made it clear that they are keeping an open mind about the future of the licence fee and will think creatively about all the options to future-proof our national broadcaster.
Adam Jogee
I am grateful to the Minister for giving way and congratulate him and his husband on their recent marriage.
I am just reading “The UK’s new approach to Africa: summary of consultation”. Point 47 states:
“We also heard that parts of the UK’s soft power appeal can be intangible.”
May I invite the Minister to confirm that both the World Service and the Monitoring service are, in his view, key parts of UK soft power?
Stephen Doughty
I absolutely agree that they are. As I said, I am an admirer of them, and they are admired around the globe—I hear that repeatedly on my travels, as do ministerial colleagues. And I thank my hon. Friend for his kind remarks on my marriage.
I want to be clear. Of course I cannot pre-empt the outcome of the licence fee process—that is for other colleagues—or make specific comments about future funding arrangements today, but I can give the House and the right hon. Member for New Forest East this assurance: he should be in no doubt about our high regard for BBC Monitoring. Its value and readiness for the future is understood at the highest levels, and we will continue to work with the BBC, DCMS and others across Government to ensure that its work continues and that we are all able to benefit from its unique expertise and analysis.
Question put and agreed to.
Humanitarian Situation in Sudan
Adam Jogee Excerpts(1 month, 2 weeks ago)
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Harpreet Uppal
I thank the hon. Member for his important point, which I am sure the Minister has heard.
Behind every number, there is a human being: a parent trying to find water for a child; a grandmother who has not eaten for days; a teenager who dreams of going to school but instead hears shellfire. As the rainy season approaches and worsening weather conditions make it increasingly difficult for aid to reach those most in need, the parties to the conflict continue to fight fiercely, heightening insecurity and disrupting critical trade and aid routes.
Hoy da, a member of the Sudanese diaspora community in my constituency of Huddersfield, has spoken of the
“colossal devastation and destruction of all aspects of normality of life in Sudan throughout the last two years”.
Hoy da also says that efforts by authorities to establish normality, and a return for those who have been internally or externally displaced, face severe challenges.
Adam Jogee (Newcastle-under-Lyme) (Lab)
I thank my hon. Friend not only for securing this debate, but for her leadership on these important issues and for ensuring that in this House we do not forget what is happening in many other parts of the world. She has spoken about the horrors that we see on our TV screens, which speaks to the experience of constituents she has met and those I have met in Newcastle-under-Lyme. Will she join me in urging the Minister to ensure that we do as much engagement with the Sudanese diaspora in this country as possible? The effects of the horrors that we see on our television screens are being felt big-time in communities up and down the United Kingdom.
Harpreet Uppal
I thank my hon. Friend for that point, which I will come to next.
Hoy da and the Sudanese diaspora community continue to play a pivotal role in assisting families, relatives and friends through financial remittances, but Hoy da told me that
“their needs are much bigger than the capacities of individuals”
and that international communities must come together to
“accelerate efforts and initiatives for de-escalation that may lead to a permanent end to the fighting.”
I thank Hoy da and all members of the Sudanese diaspora community. I know how much of an impact supporting loved ones stuck in danger will be having both emotionally and financially.
I am also aware that the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office has, under previous Administrations, committed to a diaspora engagement strategy, but that strategy has not been produced, which represents a missed opportunity. Without access to decision makers, diaspora and civil society groups cannot utilise their knowledge of the crisis to help shape policies. During the MSF roundtable that my hon. Friend the Member for Stratford and Bow (Uma Kumaran) mentioned, we heard the stories of medical workers in El Fasher. They were performing a caesarean section when soldiers from the RSF burst in, killing the patient and her unborn child. That is the reality of a healthcare system that is being systematically attacked.
Recent publications by organisations working in Sudan document testimonials from people displaced from El Fasher and Zamzam in North Darfur, from which thousands fled to Chad after an RSF attack on the Zamzam camp. During that mass displacement, one mother told an aid worker that several of her children died of thirst on the road. Another spoke of pregnant women dying as they walked. One woman was raped during the attack. All left loved ones behind in El Fasher, a place they described simply as “hell”.
Those testimonies reflect just a fraction of the suffering taking place across the region, so let me turn to Darfur specifically. Its population of around half a million people is in dire humanitarian need. Following the April attacks on Zamzam internally displaced persons camp, half a million IDPs have been moved to Tawila, a small town in North Darfur. They face a catastrophic shortage of food, water, shelter, household items and healthcare. The wind and rains, which are due to start within weeks, will destroy shelters and contribute to the spread of disease.
The mass killings, rape, ethnic violence, starvation and humanitarian crisis that we are witnessing can no longer be tolerated by the international community, but frontline organisations are being pushed to breaking point. Agencies have told us that cuts to official development assistance have made it harder to maintain services; without urgent intervention, a major funding cliff edge is approaching in September. That is when multiple key humanitarian programmes are due to expire, with no confirmed renewal.
If the funding gap is not urgently addressed, the consequences for those relying on aid in places such as Darfur and Tawila will be devastating. The UK Government have made Sudan a stated foreign policy priority. I welcome the steps already taken, but the operational reality on the ground remains dire.
Actions of Iranian Regime: UK Response
Adam Jogee Excerpts(1 month, 4 weeks ago)
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Mr Falconer
I thank the hon. Gentleman for his important question. I am sure I will receive complaints from his party’s Front Benchers, but he will understand that I will not be commenting on the assessment of the strike or on intelligence matters. But I will say that it is absolutely vital that IAEA inspectors are allowed back into Iran; that is the fundamental basis on which trust can be built for a diplomatic solution. Now that a ceasefire is in place, the inspectors must come back in.
Adam Jogee (Newcastle-under-Lyme) (Lab)
People across Newcastle-under-Lyme watch events in the middle east week in, week out with anger, horror, sadness and frustration. I am grateful to the shadow Foreign Secretary for bringing this urgent question to the House this afternoon.
May I ask the Minister two things? First, what specific engagement has happened between the British Government and our regional partners in the middle east? I am not sure he has touched on the specifics. Secondly, in an answer he referred to a state threats mechanism. Can he elaborate a little more on what that means? If he cannot do that on the Floor of the House, I will be happy to have a cup of tea with him so that he can tell me in detail.
Mr Falconer
I would be—[Interruption.] There is an amusing degree of lightness from the Opposition Benches about security matters. I would be delighted to discuss this matter further. The question at issue in the Jonathan Hall report is the state threats proscription-like tool. I accept that the name is rather clunky, but it is focused on the fact that a state, in this case, has proved a persistent threat in the UK, using methods unlike those usually employed by a state. I will not say very much more about that, but Jonathan Hall has identified a gap and it is that gap that we are seeking to fill. I will be happy to meet my hon. Friend to discuss the issue further.
Kashmir: Increasing Tension
Adam Jogee Excerpts(4 months, 1 week ago)
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Mr Falconer
India and Pakistan are our friends. We have historical connections to both states and to communities right across the region, and we will continue to be committed to regional stability. Of course, we also call for calm on our own streets.
Adam Jogee (Newcastle-under-Lyme) (Lab)
I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Smethwick (Gurinder Singh Josan) on securing this urgent question, but I do say to the Minister that this really should have been a statement. We are all horrified by the act of terror that we saw just days ago and condemn it without equivocation. I have heard from many of my constituents from both diasporas in recent days, and it is important to note that many people are feeling this act of terror deeply in my community, and up and down the United Kingdom. India and Pakistan are two very important members of the Commonwealth. Can the Minister specifically outline what engagement the British Government have had with the Commonwealth to help to reduce tensions?
Mr Falconer
If my hon. Friend would like a statement, he can stay for 45 minutes and he will get another one from me. We have been in direct contact with both India and Pakistan, and we will continue to do so.
London Sudan Conference
Adam Jogee Excerpts(4 months, 1 week ago)
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Mr Falconer
We are clear that there should be no external interference in Sudan and that a continuation of this conflict serves no one. It is why we took the efforts last week that we did, and we held the conference in closed-door sessions in order to allow the frankest possible exchange of views on the way ahead.
Adam Jogee (Newcastle-under-Lyme) (Lab)
The scenes from Sudan are beyond harrowing. There is brutal murder, millions at risk of starvation, and millions more have been displaced, with women and children watching their sons, fathers and husbands be brutally killed and many of those women and children being victims of the most horrendous sexual violence. In Newcastle-under-Lyme, I represent a number of people from the Sudanese community—either born in Sudan or whose parents were born in Sudan. They are watching the TV in horror, fear and sorrow. What we are doing to engage with and support the British Sudanese community here in the United Kingdom?
Mr Falconer
My hon. Friend speaks about the horrors for British Sudanese residents who are looking back at home and seeing such atrocious scenes. I am sure that the Minister for Africa will be happy to meet with my hon. Friend and his constituents to discuss the issue further. I have Sudanese constituents in Lincoln, and I know the horror that they feel each and every day looking at this imagery.
Conflict in Gaza
Adam Jogee Excerpts(5 months, 2 weeks ago)
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Mr Lammy
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for her remarks. I cannot comment from the Dispatch Box on further actions or sanctions; I just pray in aid what I have already said about diplomatic efforts. I hope we can see the resumption of a ceasefire as soon as possible. All power to US envoy Steve Witkoff in the coming days, as he seeks to use US influence to bring that to pass.
Adam Jogee (Newcastle-under-Lyme) (Lab)
I am grateful to the Foreign Secretary for having made time to meet me, so that I could share some of the concerns outlined by many people in Newcastle-under-Lyme. Nobody has a monopoly on decency and compassion; some Members of this House ought to keep that in mind.
The scenes from Gaza on our TV screens have been beyond horrifying. The breaking of the ceasefire has seen more innocent people killed. Without question, we need all hostages to be released, and we need this war to end now. What specific discussions has the Foreign Secretary had with his counterparts in Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan and the rest about the noble aim of saving the lives of innocent people, and delivering the long overdue two-state solution that we desperately need?
Mr Lammy
I met many partners at the G20 a few weeks ago, and as my hon. Friend will know, I have also spoken to many partners, particularly from the Arab Quint, on the phone. I suspect that I will be in the region in the coming weeks as a consequence of what we are now seeing.
G7
Adam Jogee Excerpts(5 months, 2 weeks ago)
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Mr Lammy
I can reassure the right hon. Gentleman that that, too, was raised in discussions with G7 colleagues. He is absolutely right: al-Shabaab is a deep concern, and the terrorism that emanates from its activities is something that we closely monitor and work on with partners. Yes, of course I can give him that assurance.
Adam Jogee (Newcastle-under-Lyme) (Lab)
Happy St Patrick’s day to you, Madam Deputy Speaker. And happy birthday to my dad, who is no doubt watching—he likes to keep an eye on me. [Interruption.] A lot of time in front of the TV.
The Secretary of State will know that there are a number of Sudanese British people in Newcastle-under-Lyme, as I have raised some of their cases with him. They remain devastated by what they see on television and in the media about what their family members are going through, so I thank him and his team for the support they have given me and my constituents so far. In advance of the conference to which he has just referred, may I urge him to engage with the African Union, the Commonwealth and the Arab League to ensure that the political process to which he referred in his statement is fit for purpose?
Mr Lammy
I wish my hon. Friend’s father all good wishes on his birthday, and I thank my hon. Friend for the way he has continued to raise in the Chamber these issues of conflict in Africa. He will be pleased to know that I met the African Union at the G20 a few weeks ago. We will work with it for the conference on 15 April. We expect it to attend alongside other African nations. It is hugely important that we make some breakthrough, not just on the humanitarian side but on the political side, to bring this conflict to an end.
Sudan and Eastern DRC
Adam Jogee Excerpts(7 months, 1 week ago)
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Adam Jogee (Newcastle-under-Lyme) (Lab)
I thank the Foreign Secretary for his statement and the shadow Foreign Secretary for her response to it. It is important that the House speaks with one voice on these issues. In recent days, I have heard from constituents with family in Sudan, and to say that they are terrified and devastated does not describe it. There is real fear and anguish in the Sudanese diaspora in the United Kingdom.
We have to be seen to be believed, so I am grateful to the Foreign Secretary for making his visit to Chad last week and thank him for his leadership on these issues, but I reiterate the point made by the right hon. Member for South West Wiltshire (Dr Murrison). Will he touch on the specific discussions that he has had in recent weeks with the African Union—it has an important role to play—and whether he plans to go to Addis to make that case in person?
Mr Lammy
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for continuing to raise these issues from the Back Benches and pressing me on them whenever he sees me in the Lobby. Let me be clear—I should have made this point—that we are of course working with the African Union. New leadership is about to take up post in the African Union in the coming weeks, and we will continue to push these issues with it. We will work with a range of partners including Saudi Arabia, Egypt, the United Arab Emirates, the United States, African and European countries who are taking an interest, the Intergovernmental Authority on Development, the United Nations and the African Union. I reassure him of that.
Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and International Committee of the Red Cross (Status) Bill [Lords]
Adam Jogee ExcerptsWednesday 18th December 2024
(8 months, 2 weeks ago)
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Adam Jogee (Newcastle-under-Lyme) (Lab)
It is a pleasure to follow the Liberal Democrat spokesperson, who made it just in time. I say, better late than never. It was an important contribution.
I want to assure the Parliamentary Private Secretary, my hon. Friend the Member for Central Ayrshire (Alan Gemmell), who put it to me that it looked like I had rather a lot of pieces of paper in my hand and asked how long I intended to speak, that it is more a case of the font being a bit bigger so I can read it, as opposed to the temptation of speaking for far too long. [Interruption.] Never? You should be so lucky.
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak briefly on Third Reading of this much needed and very welcome piece of legislation. I want to start, as my hon. Friend the Member for Southgate and Wood Green (Bambos Charalambous) did, by declaring my interest as a member of the executive of the UK branch of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and as co-chair of the all-party parliamentary group for the Commonwealth. I congratulate the Minister on his work getting the Bill through the House and pay the same tribute to Baroness Chapman, alongside noble Lords of all parties and none—I think of Baroness D’Souza particularly. That the Bill has worked its way through the House with no substantive amendments speaks to the collective commitment on all sides to our role on the world stage and to being good citizens.
I noted on Second Reading that the Bill has been through the wars and was rudely interrupted by the general election, although I would not be here without that, so I am grateful to a point. I am therefore delighted that Royal Assent is within touching distance. With that in mind, I accept that the sooner I sit down, the faster the Bill will get on the statute book. However, I want to say a couple of things.
In many ways, I am a child of the Commonwealth: my grandfather was born in Jamaica, that wonderful island in the West Indies, and my father, as Members will know by my surname Jogee, is of Indian heritage, but was born and raised in Zimbabwe—Rhodesia at the time, but now Zimbabwe. Notwithstanding Zimbabwe’s departure from, and intention to rejoin, the Commonwealth —an issue I shall raise with the Minister for Development in the new year—all three nations, alongside our United Kingdom, were or are important members of the Commonwealth of Nations.
This Bill is important to me, as it ensures that we lead by example, gives real, tangible effect to our commitment to the Commonwealth, and makes it clear that we will play our full part. That is important, because, following our departure from the European Union, making global Britain work, making it real and making it a success has to happen with the Commonwealth at its heart. A successful and effective Commonwealth can be a vehicle for our values, for trade, for the sharing of ideas, and for delivery.
The Commonwealth Parliamentary Association does such important work, and the new legal status that this Bill affords it allows us, as a United Kingdom, to take our seat firmly at the table. It brings parliamentarians here together, allowing us to form friendships—the former Secretary of State, the right hon. Member for Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale (David Mundell), and I are now pals—and creates alliances and working relationships at home and abroad. It allows us to learn from others, to share our successes and, importantly, to pick up best practice. As the Liberal Democrat spokesperson noted, it is important that the CPA will remain headquartered here in our United Kingdom.
I would like to say thank you to Sarah, Josh, Helen, Daisy and all the team who have supported me since my election to the executive of the UK branch of the CPA. My thanks also go to the secretary-general of the CPA. Stephen Twigg is a former Member of this House and the man who sent Portillo packing in Enfield Southgate back in 1997. I saw Stephen’s effectiveness, patience, and diligence up close at the CPA conference—I am sure that the right hon. Member for Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale will agree with that. Just to reassure Opposition Members, I would also like to pay tribute to Dame Maria Miller, formerly of this parish, for the role that she played in getting us to where we are today.
This Bill is about our standing on the world stage and our role as a leader in the fight for human rights, democracy, respect, good governance, decency and, importantly, togetherness. The Bill, when signed into law by His Majesty, will specifically grant international status to both the ICRC and the CPA and will enable both those reputable and long-standing bodies to benefit from the immunities and privileges of all other international bodies. That is a win for all of us. It is a technical Bill, but an important one. I know that colleagues in Parliaments and Assemblies across the Commonwealth are looking to us to get this done, and today, all being well, we will do just that.
Her late Majesty Queen Elizabeth II always said that she had to be seen to be believed, and she was right. The same goes for us, Madam Deputy Speaker, because as this Bill becomes law—subject to the will of the House—we will be able to look our partners, neighbours and friends in the eye and prove our commitment to the Commonwealth in deeds as well as in words.
The Committee stage of the Bill was the first Committee that I sat on following my election to this House. I accept that it was a little less demanding than the Committees on some of the other Bills before us, but that speaks to the cross-party nature of the Bill. I welcome the support of colleagues from across the House, including the shadow Minister, the right hon. Member for Aldridge-Brownhills (Wendy Morton) and the hon. Member for Esher and Walton (Monica Harding) from the Liberal Democrats.
I join the Minister in paying tribute to all the officials in the Foreign Office who have worked on the Bill, some of whom are listening, and to the Clerks and officials here in this House. They are all wonderful and very talented people. I wish the Bill well when the Question is put shortly, and I look forward to supporting it on Third Reading. I feel sure that it will receive the overwhelming support of the House.
As this is the last time that I shall speak in the House in 2024—[Interruption.] I am going home. Newcastle-under-Lyme needs me and I am going home.
Adam Jogee
You’ll cope just fine.
I just want to wish all colleagues here in our United Kingdom Parliament, our Commonwealth kith and kin, and, of course, the good people of Newcastle-under-Lyme, who I shall see tomorrow, a very happy Christmas and a peaceful, calm and tolerant new year.
David Mundell (Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale) (Con)
I should declare that I am the treasurer and international representative of the CPA UK branch. The scale of the resentment, and indeed anger, among Commonwealth countries at the previous structure of the CPA is sometimes not clear in this House. A body had been set up to consider alternative structures, in particular the CPA leaving the UK and being based elsewhere, because of that concern and the many years that it had taken to bring the issue forward.
I was therefore very pleased to be able to go to the interim committee, which had been set up to consider alternative locations for CPA International, and provide it with a copy of the Hansard report of the Second Reading of the Bill, which I am grateful that the Minister and the FCDO brought forward in a timely fashion that tied in, deliberately or otherwise, with the Commonwealth parliamentary conference. Given undertakings that had been given repeatedly by UK representatives, there was a demand for evidence that that would be done. The unanimous support that the Bill achieved on Second Reading went a long way towards doing that, opening up the opportunity for CPA International to start to focus on many other issues.
The issue of the CPA’s structure and legal status has preoccupied it at an international level for many years. I attended the conference in Ghana last year and, at that conference, that was the dominant issue that took up virtually all the debate. This year, I was pleased that there was an excellent debate on climate change. We have a new international chair in Dr Christopher Kalila, who will visit London shortly. He has set out his wish to bring a renewed sense of purpose to the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association, which will focus not so much on structure and constitutional issues as on bringing together the Commonwealth parliamentary family on issues of importance across the Commonwealth.
As the Minister knows, we cannot disguise the fact that there are difficult issues out there. The LGBT+ issue remains extremely challenging, and we cannot duck that. We have to look at ways in which we can take that forward. Certain Commonwealth countries are promoting the criminalisation of not just members of the LGBT+ community but their allies. That is not acceptable, and we have to take a stand and show leadership on it.
We also have to acknowledge that other actors are at work. It will shock Labour Members that when I was in South Africa, I was condemned as a neo-colonialist by the Economic Freedom Fighters party, who wear fetching red boiler suits in Parliament to display that, in fact, they are ordinary working people and not part of the elite. They are not supportive of the Commonwealth or South Africa’s role in it. We know Russia and China are active in many Commonwealth countries, so we cannot just take it as given that everybody will proceed on the basis that we would wish them to. But I, like others who have spoken, regard the Commonwealth as a great force for good. There is huge opportunity at both parliamentary and governmental level to make a difference to those on the ground across the Commonwealth, and I hope that will be at the heart of the Government’s approach.
There are one or two people who I would like to thank and acknowledge, not least my former colleague Dame Maria Miller, who tried to get the Bill through. Whether the arrival of the hon. Member for Newcastle-under-Lyme (Adam Jogee) was worth pausing the Bill for might be a matter for debate on another day. I praise our former colleague Ian Liddell-Grainger. Ian would have done well in the diplomatic service, if he had chosen to do so. He had to step in when the former chair of the CPA international died suddenly and there was a vacuum. Ian came in and steadied the ship, as well as pursuing the issue within this Parliament and identifying its importance.
Of course, as has already been mentioned, our former colleague in this House, Stephen Twigg does a hugely important job as chief executive of CPA International. On his behalf, I ask the Minister to ensure that the subsequent orders that have to be brought forward are done so in a timely fashion and that we can continue to confirm to the Commonwealth family the momentum behind the process. The international executive committee of the CPA is due to meet here in London in May, and it would be helpful if the other parts of the process could have been completed by then.
My final plea to the Minister is for the Government to make more use of the CPA by working more closely with it. As he has acknowledged, having been on many visits, the CPA UK—with Members of this Parliament— has the capacity to act in a soft power role for the Government. As he and others know, MPs can share and discuss things that it is not necessarily possible for our Ministers or high commissioners to discuss. In fact, when we were in Ghana last year, we had good discussions around the LGBT+ issue, which would not have been possible in more formal settings.
Adam Jogee
I just want to say to the Minister that the point that the right hon. Gentleman has just made has support across the House. Many Labour Members want to see exactly the urgency and focus that he has just mentioned.
David Mundell
I thank the hon. Gentleman for that and for his wider comments. The CPA UK in particular is a good way of bringing together colleagues from across the House. I know that Mr Speaker fully endorses and supports that. It has been a pleasure to attend many events over the years, both overseas and here, with colleagues from across the House.
To return to my point, I hope that the Minister and the FCDO in its current guise will endorse and embrace the CPA, and the opportunity to use its soft power, to take forward matters that are in the interests of everybody across the United Kingdom.
Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and International Committee of the Red Cross (Status) Bill [Lords]
Adam Jogee ExcerptsWednesday 13th November 2024
(9 months, 3 weeks ago)
Public Bill CommitteesRead Full debate Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and International Committee of the Red Cross (Status) Act 2025 View all Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and International Committee of the Red Cross (Status) Act 2025 Debates Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts Amendment Paper: Public Bill Committee Amendments as at 13 November 2024 - (13 Nov 2024)
Kevin Bonavia (Stevenage) (Lab)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Vickers. I wish to declare a personal interest: I am a director and trustee of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association UK branch. It is a non-pecuniary interest.
Adam Jogee (Newcastle-under-Lyme) (Lab)
I, too, would like to declare an interest as a member of the UK branch of the CPA. I also echo the welcome to the shadow Foreign Secretary; she had the wisdom to attend Keele University in Newcastle-under-Lyme, so her and I are best friends on that basis. I also place on record my thanks to Stephen Twigg and all those who work at the CPA; they do wonderful work, and I am pleased to be here to support the Bill.