Public Authorities (Fraud, Error and Recovery) Bill

Baroness Coffey Excerpts

Committee stage
Wednesday 11th June 2025 Grand Committee

[Baroness Finn (Con)]

My Lords, our amendments in this group seek to strengthen the rights of the liable person in the review process, incorporate further consideration of the cost burden we are asking banks to shoulder and ensure that parliamentary scrutiny can be applied to any further changes the Minister makes by regulations to direct deduction orders. As has been the spirit of all our amendments, we have an ambition to work with the Government to make suggestions for improvement on the provisions they have set out. We believe that our amendments in this group are an effective way of ensuring that oversight, parliamentary accountability and collaboration with partners in the banking sector are made a firm part of the Bill, which will make it more effective in achieving our common aim.

Our Amendment 60A would leave out Clause 35(5). As noble Lords will know, Clause 35(5) as currently drafted restricts the ability of an applicant to request a review into the existence or value of the amount they are said to owe. This amendment seeks to remove that restriction and, in doing so, restore a basic principle of fairness and accountability in the administration of public funds.

It is an established principle of public law that individuals should have the right to challenge the basis of a financial demand made upon them by the state, not just how it is enforced but whether it is rightly due at all. Yet, as things stand, Clause 35(5) precludes that possibility. It denies the applicant the right to request a review of either the existence of the debt or the amount allegedly payable.

Let us consider the potential consequences of this. An individual could be told that they owe a significant sum without any meaningful opportunity to question the underlying calculation or whether the liability even exists. That is not the mark of a fair or just system. It may be argued that efficiency or administrative simplicity requires limits to review rights, but this must not come at the expense of natural justice.

In matters of financial liability, particularly when imposed by the state, a person must surely be entitled to ask, “Is this right? Is this fair? Can I see how this was calculated?” This amendment simply ensures that the door is not closed on those reasonable questions. Moreover, transparency and accountability benefit not only the individual but the public authority itself. The ability to request a review can act as a safeguard against error, build public trust and ensure that determinations are robust and evidence-based. It supports better administration, not weaker enforcement.

To summarise, this amendment does not seek to open the floodgates to frivolous challenges. It simply allows a person the right to question whether a debt exists and whether the amount is correct—rights that are fundamental in any fair system. I urge the Minister and noble colleagues to support this modest but important change.

Our Amendment 61A seeks to add proposed new subsection (2A) to Clause 37. The amendment is straightforward, modest in scope but essential in purpose. It would require that any regulations made by the Minister under subsections (1) and (2) which relate to the operation of direct deduction orders be accompanied by an impact assessment. This assessment would focus specifically on the projected cost and the operational capacity of the banks tasked with implementing these orders, and would require that this assessment be laid before Parliament.

The rationale for this amendment is simple: regulatory clarity, economic realism and operational accountability. When these powers are exercised through regulations, it is vital that that is done with clear regard for the third-party organisations that will be shouldering the cost. Banks and financial institutions play a crucial role in the administration of direct deduction orders, acting as the operational arm of the enforcement process. They must identify accounts, verify balances, execute deductions and respond to any errors or disputes. These are not trivial tasks. They involve significant back-office effort, compliance oversight, system changes and, crucially, legal liability.

I and noble Lords across the Committee made our thoughts and concerns on this matter clear at the previous Committee day earlier this week, although I should reiterate that we are asking banks to dedicate serious resources to undertake functions on behalf of the public sector. If we are asking banks to do this, we must commit to working with them, not despite them. Yet, under the current drafting of Clause 37, the Government are empowered to make potentially significant changes to the rules around these orders without any obligation to assess or disclose the impact those changes may have on the very institutions expected to carry them out. This amendment does not block those powers; it merely introduces a duty to consider and explain the consequences. In doing so, it reflects good regulatory practice and ensures Parliament can properly scrutinise whether such changes are proportionate, practical and economically viable.

Let us remember that unintended consequences are often the product of insufficient consultation and opaque regulation. Requiring an impact assessment is not burdensome red tape; it is a basic tool of sound policy-making. It gives banks the foresight they need to prepare and adapt their systems responsibly, and it gives Parliament and the public confidence that the Government have weighed the risks and costs before acting. To summarise, Amendment 61A is not about resisting enforcement or shielding account holders. It is about ensuring that the infrastructure behind enforcement is fit for purpose, and that the decisions taken in Whitehall do not create avoidable burdens in the banking system, which could ultimately impact consumers as well.

Finally, our Amendment 61B proposes the insertion of a new subsection (6A), requiring that the outcome of the consultations carried out under subsection (6) be laid before Parliament prior to the coming into force of any regulations made under Clause 37. This amendment seeks to strengthen parliamentary oversight and transparency in the regulatory process. Currently, Clause 37 allows for regulations to be made following consultation but does not explicitly require that the results or finding of those consultations be presented to Parliament before the regulations take effect. This risks creating a situation whereby Parliament and, by extension, the public have limited visibility into the views expressed by stakeholders during consultation and how those views have influenced the final regulatory decisions. The amendment would ensure that Parliament is fully informed of the consultation outcomes before regulations are implemented.

This is vital for several reasons. First, it supports the principle of accountability. Parliament should have the opportunity to scrutinise not only the content of new regulations but the process by which they were developed, including the concerns, evidence and recommendations raised by those consulted. Secondly, it promotes transparency. Stakeholders, including financial institutions, consumers and civil society, can see how their input has been considered and can hold the Government to account if the consultation appears to have been perfunctory or to have ignored key issues. Thirdly, this measure will encourage better-quality consultations by ensuring that the Government give proper weight to responses before finalising regulations. In short, this amendment is a commonsense safeguard to enhance democratic oversight, improve policy-making and build trust in the regulatory process concerning these important financial regulations.

These amendments collectively serve to reinforce fairness, transparency and accountability at every stage of the process, from ensuring individuals have the fundamental right to challenge financial liabilities to safeguarding that banks are neither overburdened nor overlooked, and guarantee that Parliament exercises proper scrutiny over any regulatory changes. The amendments embody a commitment to responsible governance and collaboration with all parties involved and improve the Bill’s effectiveness in delivering its goals while protecting the rights of those affected. I respectfully urge all noble Lords to support these sensible and necessary amendments so that this legislation can proceed, strengthened by clarity, oversight and justice. I beg to move.

[Baroness Coffey (Con)]

My Lords, I support my noble friend Lady Finn, particularly on Amendment 60A, because as we go through this process it feels as though the Government are trying to be judge and jury on whether the existence of an order should apply at all. I am conscious that it is important that the Government be allowed to get on and have this more straightforward way of collecting money that they are due, but it strikes me as pretty draconian that the question of whether a debt exists cannot be challenged—it cannot go for review. I appreciate we are debating the amendment, but I say by the way, in reference to the Explanatory Notes for Clause 34 on the process for review, that the legislation does not point to the fact that it is supposed to go to a higher-grade person; I am sure that it will be set out in guidance, which I hope will have statutory standing. It strikes me as odd that, having not been able to even challenge whether the order should exist, you cannot go to a tribunal about it, either. Ministers will know that I wish that parts of the Bill would go further in trying to get money back from people in a variety of ways, but in this area I do not agree with the approach of the Government and certainly agree with that of my noble friend.

[Lord Vaux of Harrowden (CB)]

My Lords, I was not going to speak on this group, but, as the noble Baroness, Lady Anderson, proved the other day, Amendment 60A is not necessary because Clause 12 sets out clearly that these orders can be used only where there has been a final determination of the amount owing by the court or where it has been agreed.

However, I support Amendment 61A. Frankly, it is becoming a bit of a weakness in an awful lot of areas that the impact assessments that come with legislation are regularly quite poor. It is incredibly important that, when we make regulations that will have impacts on people, we understand what those impacts are.

I have one other question that I probably should have dealt with by means of an amendment, but I have only just spotted something. Why are regulations made under Clauses 37(2)(c) to (f) subject to the negative procedure and not the affirmative procedure?

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[Lord Palmer of Childs Hill (LD)]

My Lords, Amendment 65 in my name would require the Minister for the Cabinet Office to,

“within six months of the passing of this Act, lay before Parliament a”

comprehensive

“report evaluating the extent of public sector fraud that occurred during the COVID-19 pandemic”.

The Liberal Democrats have long championed transparency, accountability and robust oversight of public funds. This amendment aligns with those values by ensuring that Parliament receives a clear, detailed assessment of how fraud had an impact on public resources during an unprecedented crisis. Without such transparency, we risk missing critical lessons that could inform future safeguards and improve the resilience of our public sector. The pandemic presented unique challenges that, unfortunately, created opportunities for fraud on a scale not previously seen. It is only right that we fully understand the scale and nature of the issue, not to assign blame but to strengthen our systems and protect taxpayers’ money.

This amendment reflects the Liberal Democrat commitment to evidence-based policy and open government. By requiring this report, we would promote accountability and ensure that future emergency responses are better equipped to prevent fraud, protecting public trust and ensuring that resources reach those who genuinely need them. There will be other events; we want to set the scene so that they can be dealt with. That is what this amendment seeks to do. I beg to move.

[Baroness Coffey (Con)]

My Lords, I rise to speak to this amendment because I was at the Cabinet table when Covid-19 hit this country. I am very conscious of the arduous activity that went on among brilliant civil servants but, of course, mistakes were made, as well as successes.

It is interesting to try to understand why the noble Lord, Lord Palmer of Childs Hill, wants to go into this matter further, recognising that, in Parliament, there have already been several Select Committee inquiries; one was specifically done on fraud. Of course, we also have the public inquiry that is under way, to which the Government are contributing. I am trying to understand the purpose of this amendment and this extra report, recognising that the Government will in no way make any comments until the inquiry has concluded.

My understanding is that the inquiry is still going to take evidence in 2026. For what it is worth, as I am sure the Ministers here will be relieved to know, I am absolutely convinced that this Bill will become an Act of Parliament well before the end of 2025. So there is something here of an odd overlap. I understand that this will continue to be a subject of interest.

This is quite a wide ranging-element. I know that fraud happened. There is no doubt of that. However, we also averted fraud in the DWP. We managed to stop £1.6 billion going out on one particular weekend by intervening. There were plenty of attempts at fraud and, unfortunately, there were successes. Some of those people who committed that fraud are now in jail, thanks to the endeavours of the Government.

The noble Lord, Lord Palmer of Childs Hill, talks about resources that the country may have been deprived of when addressing the issues of Covid. I can honestly say to your Lordships that no resources were set aside at all. This is one of the reasons why there have been considerable challenges on aspects of needing to repay the debt that may have been acquired due to spectacular extra financing, whether that was through businesses or about people who had never claimed benefits in their life before, making sure that they got the money that we believe they were entitled to. That was while recognising that some of the easements initially may have been subject to some fraud, but we also made every effort to try to stop it. I have already given an example of where, in one weekend, £1.6 billion was averted.

For that purpose, the amendment genuinely is unnecessary. The statutory inquiry, I hope, will not be the longest-running statutory inquiry because that is not what the country needs to consider. It would not be the best use of government resources to initiate their own further inquiry and honour this amendment.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, I am slightly torn. Yes, we have the Covid inquiry but we also have a country that faces ongoing risk. I was, entirely coincidentally, speaking this morning to someone who was expressing concern about stocks of medical supplies that the Government were holding or not holding. They are being told that the Government were waiting for the Covid inquiry to report and then would look at what might happen. I am afraid that the reality is, of course, that we do not have an influenza virus out there saying, “Just wait until the Covid inquiry has reported and then we can think about attacking Britain”. I am not sure that this is the right way forward, but we need to hear from the Government more generally—I understand that that may not be within the Minister’s portfolio—and maybe the noble Baroness could write to me at a future date. However, we need to think about being ready, in this age of shocks, for all the threats that could potentially hit us—particularly health threats. We should learn from the mistakes that were undoubtedly made under the previous Government. That is an important issue. We need to see more urgency from the Government. The answer of waiting until the Covid inquiry reports really does not hack it in this age when we are facing so many threats.

[Baroness Coffey (Con)]

Before the noble Baroness sits down, it is important to stress, when thinking of prevention of issues and being ready for them, that I am quite confident that the Government have continued a lot of the activity of the previous Government. I will give an example. Although it was for a short time, when I was Secretary of State for Health and Social Care we were being asked to write off hundreds of millions of pounds on Covid vaccines because we had, in effect, anticipated what could have happened. In the end, thankfully that was not needed. That is not a case of fraud, but the noble Baroness was stretching us into preparedness for the future. That is still a key module of the statutory public inquiry now under way. But it would be worth looking at some of the Select Committee investigations that happened, perhaps much more quickly, and some of the government responses that had been provided to them.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle]

I will stay sat down.

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[Baroness Coffey (Con)]

Before the Minister sits down, let me say that Tom Hayhoe, is, I think, six months through his contract. Do the Government intend to extend it beyond the fixed one year, and when does the Minister anticipate that he might share reports—he may already do that with Ministers, but when they will be shared with Parliament?

[Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)]

My Lords, this is what I can say currently, but if there is additional clarification, I will come back to the noble Baroness. Mr Tom Hayhoe’s appointment is a fixed one-year appointment. He will be required to provide a report to Parliament, which will present lessons and recommendations for procurement in future during a time of national crisis, so he will be reporting on his efforts outside and within the Treasury.

Public Authorities (Fraud, Error and Recovery) Bill

Baroness Coffey Excerpts

2nd reading
Thursday 15th May 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Coffey (Con)]

My Lords, it is a huge privilege to follow my noble friend Lady Spielman after her exceptionally thoughtful, insightful speech to the House, indicating very clearly the experience she will bring.

It is no surprise that somebody obviously very bright who did a mathematics degree at Cambridge University became a chartered accountant. I understand she is super-fabulous at XL spreadsheets, a skill I am sure we can use to interrogate all sorts of statistics coming out. After a successful career in finance, she saw that particular moment that called her to try to improve lives, particularly those of young people. She took on a master’s, I think it was at the University of London’s Institute of Education.

Most people will know my noble friend Lady Spielman from her role as the chief inspector at Ofsted, but she also spent five or six years as chair of Ofqual. Speaking to people who worked with her at that time, one of the things that they particularly valued about her was her ability to bring together a top-class board to try to help through some of the challenging times and to make sure that Ofqual continued to be there, focused on the quality of education and, importantly, the young people it was there to serve—substance and integrity coming through again, as we saw in her role at Ofsted. My noble friend said to me that, in essence, making sure that children got the best start in life was key, and she believed that the way to achieve that, as we saw, was substance and integrity in the education they had, so that they were well prepared for the future.

We saw this in a different way because, before then, my noble friend had been a founding member of the Ark Academy. Anybody who has been to an Ark Academy school will know how brilliant they are, so that is a lifelong legacy of which she should be rightly proud. Perhaps going to Ofsted may have seen a slightly different approach on perhaps the harder side of some aspects of education, but I think that experience of what could be done is why we have seen the number of schools that are now excellent rise significantly. We have seen the educational attainment of children rise, which is not solely due to my noble friend, but, as a previous colleague of hers said, nobody knows education better in the round than my noble friend Lady Spielman.

I think it is fair to say that I had limited interaction with my noble friend when I was a Minister. I remember a couple of discussions and all I will say is that she had certainly acquired the teacher’s look. My parents were both teachers. She had a warm smile, as we have seen today, but she knew her stuff and she also knew how to get her point across.

Outside this House, my noble friend is currently a trustee of the Victoria and Albert Museum. She is obviously a lady of culture, but there is another element that I appreciate. My former MP is in this House as my noble friend Lord Young of Cookham. He used to be known as “the Baronet on a bike”. Well, we now have a Baroness on a bike. There is almost nowhere that my noble friend will go without it involving two wheels rather than four.

We saw in the quality of the debate today how my noble friend will contribute to many issues, and it is now to that that I turn. This Bill is important and I welcome the fact that we finally have something to get going. I say that with genuine passion and I congratulate the Government on getting under way. I am conscious that, under my Government, while I set out a strategy three years ago in May 2022, it contained the classic phrase “when parliamentary time allows”, and it was a frustration of mine that we did not get it going until quite late on and, as I will explain, in my view some of the measures had changed since I was in office as Secretary of State for Work and Pensions. It felt somewhat, to be candid, as if they had been watered down. That might be in recognition of some of the issues raised across this House, but, as the tone of my speech I hope will show, I do not think this Bill goes far enough, and I will be encouraging the Minister to look again at what they could perhaps do.

Let us get some statistics right. It has been well said by the noble Baroness, Lady Fox of Buckley, that we should think about where the DWP has not made sure that people have the money they are entitled to. I think that is in the region of £1 billion per year, 0.4% of the £292 billion that DWP paid in the last financial year. The figures are stark. I congratulate all the people at DWP; I am sure Ministers will take credit for it, and that is okay, but I know there is a great legacy of activities that we got under way, recognising that it was simply unacceptable to have fraud in our system of well over £7 billion. The figures that came out this morning show that fraud is estimated to be £6.5 billion, of which claimant error is £1.9 billion and official error for overpayment £1 billion. That fraud has come down from the previous financial year, from £7.3 billion for fraud and £1.6 billion for claimant error, so, unfortunately, claimant error appears to have gone up, as indeed has official error, in cash terms.

It is easy to get into stats about percentages and similar, and I understand why, but cash is real. When I was at the department, I probably got some of the policies that were presented to us today and I said, “We have to go further, because this is real money”. It is the difference about whether you build a hospital or not. It is the difference about the policy that has now happened about winter fuel payments. It is the difference about aid overseas. It is the difference—call me a traditional Conservative—about actually not spending that money but reducing our debt mountain and therefore some of the interest that we pay. Of course, it could then lead to other uses of spending, but it is important that we recognise that this is real cash.

That is why I am keen to point out that I understand why people have concerns about the variety of powers. I do not intend to comment so much on PSFA, but I hope the Government will take the opportunity to make it a slightly better, snazzier snap, as it were, in terms of making sure that the public know that we are actually serious as a Parliament about recovering money from criminals. Some of the powers that I have heard about seem somewhat draconian. However, given what I am about to say, perhaps I will not be quite so sceptical when we go through Committee.

With regard to the other significant amount, that is where the proposals—as has already been caught by the noble Lord, Lord Rook, and the noble Baroness, Lady Fox of Buckley—are actually about trying to avoid claimants making errors in the first place, although the definition of claimant “error” can sometimes be a bit generous, rather than being “fraud”. Nevertheless, we should do whatever we can to prevent people not necessarily having the right claim and make it easier to make sure that their records are up to date, otherwise we end up with the uncomfortable situation with, for example, carer’s allowance overpayments and people being expected to pay back a lot of money for not realising some of the changes. If there are ways that we can do more of that, that will be helpful.

I know the DWP already has the powers to go into HMRC and PAYE, and that has helped to tackle some of this, but powers are necessary to go further. As I say, even just the debt owed at the end of the last financial year was nearly £10 billion, and that is still a substantial amount of money that is owed from benefits.

In terms of thinking through, I could go on about, frankly, callous criminals trying to use the welfare system as a cash machine rather than thinking of the most vulnerable, whom it is there for. We need to make sure that this money is well spent and reaches the people that it is supposed to.

I know that Covid was particularly difficult. I am not going to go back over Covid history, but I will point out that the DWP has been good at trying to absorb and use technology. For example, over just one weekend we managed to stop £1.9 billion going to organised criminals—money we would never have got back. The DWP successfully prosecuted a gang for fraud that involved only—sorry to sound glib about it—£68 million. Nevertheless, it is that sort of sophisticated approach that has led to the DWP upgrading its powers and use of technology to make sure that taxpayers’ money goes to the people Parliament has decided deserve, need and should have that money. It is vital we keep that in mind.

There are a variety of things that could be done to identify and stop abuse of the system through retrospective claims and similar. It is important we continue with that.

On some of the powers people may not be aware of, we—sorry, I mean the DWP; it is still in my heart and my DNA—have the powers to go after named individuals, but it is a very time-consuming process. This is approach is intended to be somewhat more comprehensive, and this is why we need to go further.

Government technology has evolved so much, but the same is true for the criminal. The banks have written to us with their concerns about potential conflicts. I can assure the banks that there is no conflict concerning a Government and a Parliament that want to stop criminals getting money to which they are not entitled—money that has the potential to improve people’s lives.

There is one thing I agree with the banks on. The risk with the legislation as it stands is that could be too easy for criminals to quickly find a workaround that may not necessarily be obvious. One of the gaps in the legislation is that it tends to go after the bank accounts that benefits such as universal credit are paid into. I do not know about other noble Lords, but I have at least four bank accounts, and I can move money between them within seconds. These are issues we were looking to address, and I am not sure if they are covered in the Bill. You would be surprised to learn how many people—British citizens and others—are getting benefits in this country but are not living here and spending that money abroad. The Government should have access to such approaches, so that they can deal with this issue comprehensively.

As the noble Baroness, Lady Anderson, said, this is not about presuming someone is guilty. The issue at the moment with getting these extra bits of information is that you have to demonstrably show that you think the person is guilty. There is a mixture of issues at hand. There may be concerns from the ICO but, as I say, this is about taxpayers’ money that could be used better.

There is also a gap. I do not know why the DWP is not being given arrest powers, like HMRC. A lot of this legislation is supposed to be aligning the powers available to everybody, so I hope we can address that.

I am probably out of step with many others in the Chamber in this regard, but let us think in a different way. The British Crime Survey is about how people perceive crime—how they feel that they have endured crime—and 40% of crime now is fraud. We have done something to address that by making banks pay back money that perhaps should not have gone out of people’s accounts. Nevertheless, do not be surprised that fraud happens, but be pleased to some extent that the figure for fraud and error is now 3.3%. I would like to see it a lot lower, and a cash figure put on it, but we should be careful. There is a lot of scaremongering, but I genuinely believe that the British public want to make sure that fraudsters and criminals do not get a penny, and that the money goes to the most vulnerable.

National Insurance Pension Underpayments

Baroness Coffey Excerpts

Thursday 13th March 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Sherlock (Lab)]

I thank the noble Viscount; there have been good questions today. With the transition from the old state pension to the new state pension, it became more important that people had their own national contribution records in full, because that is what their pension will depend on in future. The previous Government set a deadline—originally April 2023, if memory serves me—by which people had to decide whether to apply to buy back missing years. That deadline was extended to April 2025, so it is coming up on 5 April. I can assure the noble Viscount that there is a surge of people wanting to buy years back; in fact, HMRC and the DWP are working together to ensure that everybody who wants to pay money to fill those gaps in their record can do so. Not only is there the online tool I mentioned earlier; customers can identify gaps and make payments automatically without even contacting the DWP or HMRC, or they can phone us. We have increased resources to about 480 people working across the Revenue and the DWP to manage the high volume of calls coming in.

To reassure not just the noble Viscount but anyone listening out there: as long as people contact the DWP ahead of the 5 April deadline, they will be able to fill gaps back to 2006. In addition, we have launched an online call-back form; people can simply register their interest and the DWP will call them back within eight weeks. Again, provided they register that interest before 6 April, they will be able to fill those gaps if they want to.

[Baroness Coffey (Con)]

My Lords, I welcome what the Minister has said. The Answers to some Parliamentary Questions I tabled to the noble Lord, Lord Livermore, suggested that HMRC did not hold these records centrally, so I am delighted to hear that work is ongoing. May I press the Minister further on what she just said? I am delighted to hear about the increased resources, but there is an intricate calculation to be made: for some people, it will not be worthwhile paying the extra voluntary national insurance contributions if they consequently miss out on pension credit. Recognising that the timeline is fast approaching, can the Minister assure me that sufficient resources are in place to help people make that calculation?

[Baroness Sherlock (Lab)]

The noble Baroness makes an excellent point; I would expect no less, since she has rather more experience in this field than I do. She is right that there will be some people, in limited circumstances, for whom this becomes a marginal issue. A significant amount of information is available online from the DWP about the different sets of criteria, but I will check on the points she made and see whether we need to do anything else to make sure that the information is out there.

Pensions (Special Rules for End of Life) Bill

Baroness Coffey Excerpts

Report stage
Friday 17th May 2024 Commons Chamber

[Dr Thérèse Coffey (Suffolk Coastal) (Con)]

I beg to move amendment 1, page 1, line 22, leave out from “force” to end of line 23 and insert—

“at the end of the period of four months beginning with the day on which this Act is passed.”

This amendment would bring the provisions of the Bill which extend to England and Wales and Scotland, and section 1(5) which extends to England and Wales and Scotland and Northern Ireland, into force four months after Royal Assent.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

With this, it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Amendment 4, page 2, line 1, leave out from “force” to end of line 2 and insert—

“at the end of the period of four months beginning with the day on which this Act is passed.”

This amendment would bring the provisions of the Bill which extend only to Northern Ireland into force four months after Royal assent.

Amendment 2, page 2, line 5, leave out subsection (7)

This amendment is consequential on Amendment 1.

Amendment 5, page 2, line 7, leave out subsection (8).

This amendment is consequential on Amendment 4.

Amendment 3, page 2, line 10, leave out subsection (9).

This amendment is consequential on Amendment 1.

Amendment 6, page 2, line 12, leave out subsection (10).

This amendment is consequential on Amendment 4.

[Dr Coffey]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Tewkesbury (Mr Robertson) and to the Government and the Department for Work and Pensions. I have tabled these amendments because, as has been seen with other Bills to which we have given Third Reading, they concern the timing of when an Act comes into effect. I am conscious that there are a number of situations where more work needs to be done to get some of the details and guidance, and other elements like that. Regrettably, for a variety of pieces of legislation, waiting for the Secretary of State to create regulations has somewhat delayed the introduction after Royal Assent of the effect of the Act that so many people have worked hard to achieve.

I am not in any way trying to detract from the regulator or from the Department for Work and Pensions, of which I was proud to be the Secretary of State, but I am particularly conscious about the uncertainty of the timing of a general election. Of course there are still procedures that can be done to some extent, but those who have held ministerial office will know some of the challenges that take place in terms of process, procedure, and different Cabinet committees. Put simply—this is why I am grateful to my hon. Friend and to the Government for listening to my concerns—the amendments would remove extra steps of process. That matters because I am keen to see the Bill enacted. I am not seeking in any way to hold it up. I want certainty about making it happen, and I was concerned about the uncertainty of timing. I was careful to check that the amendments would not affect the legislative consent motion that has already passed the Northern Ireland Assembly. If there is any way that they do, I have not been made aware of that—I have been given the opposite assurance.

I am keen to ensure that the United Kingdom moves together. We have two formally separate systems. These are transferred powers—they have always been powers for the Northern Ireland Executive and Assembly to deal with—but I know that the Executive and the Assembly have been keen, particularly in social security matters, for the United Kingdom to proceed in step so that we do not give different treatment to the same things, especially when we all pay the same tax and we all tend to have the same service providers.

After careful consideration, I wanted to ensure that the Bill becomes law in a timely fashion, without the need for further process, and that is why I will be pressing my amendments.

[Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con)]

I thank my right hon. Friend the Member for Suffolk Coastal (Dr Coffey) for tabling her amendments and for discussing them with me over the last few days. We have worked to try to ensure that the best outcome is found. She makes the point that when there is a general election coming, albeit that that is an unusual circumstance—one hopes that it will arise only every five years—it throws things into doubt. The last thing we would want is for the Bill to get Royal Assent and then, for some reason—probably the election—not come into force. I understand where she is coming from on that.

I also thank the Minister and the Government for discussing these issues and coming to an agreement to accept the amendments. I am certainly very happy to accept them. There is no need for me to drag proceedings out any further at this point. I thank all concerned for their work.

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[Dr Coffey]

It is a pleasure to support my hon. Friend in this important change. I commend him on the detail in his speech, which he also displayed in the Bill Committee, on which I was happy to serve. The Bill recognises that regulations have moved on. Back in 2022, the Government, with the support of Parliament, made changes to social security benefits to align ourselves with what was happening in the NHS. Plenty of people who get a terminal illness could find that their lifetime may be longer than six or 12 months. The Bill considers particularly where people are diagnosed later, and to accelerate or extend potential benefits.

The national health service considers people to be terminally ill when they estimate that they have around 12 months left to live. That is never an easy message to give, or for people to receive. There seems to be very little medical accuracy in getting the timeline right, but that length of time has been well established in the NHS. That is why this is sensible legislation—to align with how the NHS treats patients, as opposed to the somewhat arbitrary 6 months. The reference to the PPF and the financial assistance scheme available will be welcomed by people right across the country. I am keen to see this legislation pass through the Commons and the Lords at great speed.

Pension Schemes

Baroness Coffey Excerpts

Thursday 2nd May 2024 Commons Chamber

[Dr Thérèse Coffey (Suffolk Coastal) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to speak in this debate, and I congratulate the right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr Carmichael) on securing it and the Backbench Business Committee on granting it.

This is an important matter, no matter what age people are. I appreciate that today we are not talking particularly about state pensions, but I call on those on the shadow Front Bench to please desist from this scaremongering about what may be happening with state pensions. All parties have committed to having the triple lock in their election manifestos, and it has worked well. There has been a big uplift in the state pension since 2010. We worked on that with the Liberal Democrats when we were first in coalition and have continued with it, with a couple of exceptional reasons in the pandemic—once when we used primary legislation to ensure that people could get the triple lock, and again when we recognised the unusual situation with covid earnings. We know that pensioners have welcomed the significant increase in their first state pension payment of this tax year, with most of them seeing that significant uplift in the week just gone.

[Stephen Doughty]

The former Secretary of State says we should not be scaremongering, but there are some serious concerns. Does she accept that the Pensions Regulator report said that the mini-Budget of the former Prime Minister, the right hon. Member for South West Norfolk (Elizabeth Truss), contributed to a £425 billion drop in pension fund assets, which has affected every pensioner and every potential pensioner in this country? Will the former Secretary of State not at least accept some responsibility for that?

[Dr Coffey]

I certainly will not accept responsibility for that. I am conscious of the arrangement with the Pension Regulator, but also the situation that happened with liability-driven investments. The Bank of England saw that as a risk in 2018 and did nothing about it. I come back to the fact that the state pension is well trusted and well regarded, and it is scaremongering to suggest anything otherwise.

I am conscious that today we are talking about private pension schemes. In my short time as Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, what came up time and again—this Government addressed it—was the reduction in the lifetime allowance to about £1 million, which the Conservatives had introduced. I appreciate that for many people, it would be a mountain to climb to get to that kind of pension pot, but for doctors, consultants and some nurses, the lifetime allowance was proving a barrier to them continuing to work within the NHS. A sensible approach was taken, and I am pleased we have done that.

One thing that has been constant is the generous tax elements for private pensions. It is why we have had such a successful industry and why there is a difference between us and many other countries around the world in what comes from the state directly and what comes through private pensions. I recognise that the previous Labour Administration put in place the building blocks for auto-enrolment and the creation of the National Employment Savings Trust, and that was a good thing to do. I am pleased that we started that journey just over a decade ago.

Contrary to the predictions, it was good to see how many young people did not opt out. That is a huge success story, and it is why I share with the Chairman of the Select Committee, the right hon. Member for East Ham (Sir Stephen Timms), a keenness to make sure we get on with the consultation to which he referred. I am sure the Minister will answer that point. I appreciate that there will always be concerns about the possible impact on jobs. I get it, and it may be that we need a two-stage consultation: one stage about age and one considering a lower earnings level. It would be good to get on, because everybody realises that the sooner people start, the more they benefit. That is an important part of why auto-enrolment has been such a success.

Another recent change in legislation is the creation of collective defined contribution schemes. Clearly, there is still some interest in those, and Royal Mail is potentially closest to starting one. We should see what we can do to advocate for that model for many institutions. This is a brave comment to make in this speech, but I wonder whether Parliament should lead by example and see whether the Members of Parliament pension scheme should move to this approach. I am conscious that the taxpayer pays for our contributions through the Government and so on, and we have an uncertain career path by becoming Members of Parliament, but where something is good enough for others and we are creating legislation for it, we should consider leading by example and giving some impetus to that new legislative vehicle. I may not be popular for saying that, and I am conscious of how some of the issues with the McCloud judgment and similar matters led to a two-tier system, which has now been rectified. However, that scheme undoubtedly need not be as complex.

I am pleased about the changes that happened in the Treasury, responding to calls from Departments such as the DWP, which led to an opening up through the Mansion House reforms of the consolidation of funds and aspects of super-funds. What we need from pension investment is good returns so that our pensioners will be prosperous—that is ultimately what this is about—and we need to galvanise what we are doing to ensure that.

I am not one of those people who believes that we will be retiring at 75 or whatever—far from it. There is a rational end to that approach. It will not necessarily take courage but it will require some imagination, co-ordination and collaboration to ensure that we have sustainable pension outcomes for the future. That is where we can start to learn from other countries. When I was in the Department for Work and Pensions, I was interested in what is done in Japan. Dare I say, if I end up doing another PhD in the future, it will probably be on how pensions are part-funded in Japan, recognising its ageing demographics? We should recognise that that is the situation in our country, too. We should not be all doom and gloom about this issue. We need to innovate, but we can also look at what others have done to address it.

There is another really important thing. I started work in 1997 for a company called Mars Inc. where—it was little known to me; I did not realise how beneficial this was—I was on a final salary defined-benefit pension scheme with zero contribution. I did not have to contribute a penny. Over time, that did not stay affordable for Mars. I had not appreciated that benefit—I think to some extent that is why auto-enrolment is so successful—but in that job I learned the importance of making sure that employers are careful with how they manage pensions on behalf of employees and the role of the trustees.

We can think back to Robert Maxwell raiding pensions. I know that Mars sold a business to his company, and that went wrong in terms of the pensions. People may not be aware that pensions are not included as part of the TUPE process—they are specifically excluded, recognising how they could limit sensible company mergers and acquisitions—but I am conscious of how people may not really think about that until much later in life.

To return to the reforms and why they are necessary, the trustee is so important. I had hoped that we would have a “year of the trustee” campaign. Although being a trustee is an interesting role to have—I admit that I have never been one, although I have expressed interest in the past—it means being heavily involved in regulation. That could be overwhelming at times for people who may want to be a trustee because they believe in the people they work with and those who worked there before them, as well as being mindful of the future, but who are not necessarily well versed in all the ins and outs.

I know that the fiduciary duty is really drummed into trustees. For defined-contribution schemes in particular—where, candidly, there is no expectation of what the outcome will be—the hammering home of that fiduciary duty has led to a low-risk approach, which has been very low-cost but with very low returns. That is not what we should want. No wonder people are buying other homes and becoming landlords: they see a fixed asset, which they know they can sell in the future and on which they can make a reasonable expectation, whereas people putting money into their pension pots have no huge sense of what that could buy them in the future. We have changed the laws so that people do not have to put everything into an annuity, but it still is a matter of concern. I am conscious that there have been issues with the pensions dashboard, and I hope that the Money and Pensions Service will solve that. Perhaps the Minister can update us on progress in that regard. It is vital that people start to look at that now, not just as they are about to retire.

What are the benefits of the reforms, and why should there be sufficient professional advice? Those intermediary advisers often get significant fees, but still recommend that people go for gilts and pretty low returns. There is a different way. I hope that the reforms will start to be taken up by the industry, which asked for them, in order to take full advantage and recognise the issues ahead. We need to see the impact of the changes in legislation and the variety of consultations. We made the changes to improve prosperity for pensioners now and in future. I would be keen to hear from the Minister if there is any news on market trends in that regard. The local government pension scheme should lead by example. The Government have put greater demand on local government through levelling up, but is vital that we see that change.

There is a second part of pension schemes that is worth raising. I wonder whether Members know just how many trillions of assets there are in UK pensions alone. The answer is about £3 trillion. Organisations such as Make My Money Matter are trying to encourage people to use their future pension pot to ensure we have a thriving planet. I do not agree with the divestment approach, but it is important that companies invested in the energy of today are invested in the energy of the future. Without the support of pension funds, we will not get that necessary investment.

Pensions are a superpower for the prosperity of people and the planet. I was pleased when we introduced the regulations on disclosure of alignment to the Paris agreement. I would like to go further and encourage the Secretary of State to bring forward similar regulations to apply to nature. Work has already started—the Task Force on Climate-related Financial Disclosures made it happen for carbon. I think we were the first in the world to do that, by the way. We can do the same for nature. The Taskforce for Nature-related Financial Disclosures is a good comparison. The International Sustainability Standards Board is looking at that, and we are close to getting that outcome. I appreciate that the Minister may not have considered that recently and he may not be able to respond, but I encourage him to do that. We only have a certain amount of time, although I hope that as science allows us to live longer, we will claim our pensions for longer, so we want to ensure a prosperous future.

On the superpower element, I praise Nest, which has done a great job. It was set up just over a decade ago, and now manages a huge amount of money. There is even room for it to expand through consolidation, which the Pension Protection Fund could also look at. Nest is leading by example. As a pension firm that is starting to invest in the energy of the future with a substantial proportion of its funds, rather than rely on gilts and similar, Nest should be truly celebrated.

Although fiduciary duty must be the No. 1 priority, let us try to get more trustees to recognise that they are responsible for ensuring that the returns from DC schemes are as good as the benefits for members of defined benefit schemes. We need to release the market and protect people as we have done. Pensions being a superpower is not necessarily the sexiest thing to say in this Chamber, but it is one of the most important decisions that we have made in legislation in recent years. We need to continue that momentum.

Pensions (Special Rules for End of Life) Bill

Baroness Coffey Excerpts

Committee stage
Wednesday 24th April 2024 Public Bill Committees

[Mr Robertson]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for raising that point. My understanding is that it is one medical professional. I cannot give her a specific answer, but I understand that it is the person who is in charge of that case for that particular person. I do not know exactly how senior they are. I understand that it is not subject to second opinions or anything like that.

[Dr Thérèse Coffey (Suffolk Coastal) (Con)]

I thank my hon. Friend for allowing me to intervene at this point. I was responsible as Secretary of State for doing quite a lot of this realignment. In essence, the NHS treats and issues certificates on the basis—which brings in other elements—that the end of life is, in its view, 12 months, so it will be a doctor, nurse or similar who does that. This is a simple alignment with how the NHS defines terminal illness in practice.

[Mr Robertson]

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for providing more information than I have to hand. As far as I can see, that is the right way to go about this. Twelve months probably gives a little more reassurance to the person making that assessment.

Transitional provisions are guidelines that outline how to transition from the old regulations to the new ones, and saving provisions are designed to protect certain rights, privileges, obligations or legal proceedings that are already in place before the new regulations or orders come into effect. That means that subsections (7) and (8) of clause 2 simply allow for the creation of regulations or orders that include special clauses to manage the change from old to new regulations, protecting against any unintended consequences that might arise during the transition.

To return to the Bill—we are getting there—subsection (9) of clause 2 provides that regulations under subsection (4), relating to the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions and with the territorial extent of England, Wales and Scotland, will be made by statutory instrument. That is a form of legislation, as everybody here is aware, that allows a provision of an Act of Parliament to be subsequently brought into force or altered without Parliament having to pass a new Act. Subsection (10) provides that an order made under subsection (5) of clause 2, relating to the Department for Communities in Northern Ireland and with the territorial extent of Northern Ireland, is exercisable by statutory rule—again, a form of legislation that allows for detailed regulations to be created without the need for a new Act of Parliament.

Finally, as I mentioned, clause 3 is simply the short title of the Act, which, if the Bill is passed, will be the Pensions (Special Rules for End of Life) Act 2024. I do hope that it will be passed in this Parliament and that the extended definition of terminal illness—life expectancy of 12 months—will come into force, providing a little bit of ease to individuals who have received the most devastating news. I thank the Committee for its indulgence.

[Dr Coffey]

It is a pleasure to speak in Committee about the Bill, which I strongly support. As I have already pointed out, some of the realignment involved is intended to ensure some simplicity for people at one of the most difficult times of their lives, so that they do not have to go around getting different aspects of treatment or negotiating. We made that good change a few years ago. There have been various bits of legislation along the way—some welfare and pensions legislation is done through regulations and some through primary legislation, so it can seem cumbersome. But this is the right moment to make sure that this part of the support available to people in their difficult last moments is fully aligned.

I would like to say something to the Minister. I am conscious that getting even regulations through Parliament takes time and more effort from officials. I would like him either to confirm that the regulations have already been drafted in anticipation of Royal Assent, so that they can be laid before Parliament straight away, or to say that he will consider simply changing the element in question. I have been encouraging others leading private Members’ Bills through Parliament to change the commencement dates so that they come into force three months after Royal Assent.

I am conscious that the Pensions Regulator and similar organisations might have to address some issues, but they should know that the Bill has the full support of this House—of both Houses, I anticipate. We should not wait for further legislation to be commenced, given that people at the end of their lives would welcome this matter being put to bed straight away.

[The Chair]

If no other Members wish to contribute, I call the Minister.

Child Maintenance Service

Baroness Coffey Excerpts

Tuesday 27th February 2024 Westminster Hall

[Dr Thérèse Coffey (Suffolk Coastal) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair, Sir Charles. I congratulate the Chairman of the Work and Pensions Committee, the right hon. Member for East Ham (Sir Stephen Timms), on securing this important debate.

I recognise the importance of the Child Maintenance Service in trying to help children in low-income households. I give credit to Arlene Sugden, the former director of the CMS: she did a tremendous job and made a lot of changes. It is sad to hear that some of the reforms that she brought in might now have slid, but we should recognise that thanks to the CMS, more than £1 billion a year has made its way to the parents who look after the child for the majority of the time.

Several of us will have distressing stories. When parents come to us, they and their child are struggling. It is terrible to see how children are often used as pawns in a dysfunctional or non-existing relationship. That is why I really care about the Child Maintenance Service. In my time in the Department, I worked with my noble Friend Baroness Stedman-Scott to see what we could do to improve the experience for parents. Our priority was to reduce child poverty. With only one parent working, perhaps not full time, extra income from child maintenance was critical to boosting opportunities for the child.

I am conscious that in the majority of situations, whether they involve hiding assets or getting someone else to do a DNA test to avoid being identified as a parent, it is women and children who are affected. Men are also affected, however; I do not want to dismiss that in any way. Some of the most harrowing cases that I have heard have been those in which a father has been left with the children while the mother has been trying to avoid responsibility and, in some instances, lying to my face. Nevertheless, the Department continues to fund the Reducing Parental Conflict programme. The Child Maintenance Service is never seen to take sides between the two parents; it is seen to be on the side of the child. That is a vital approach.

I have already laid out how the issue matters to me. We started a strategy; it is good to see significant elements of that. I was delighted when my hon. Friends the Members for Stroud (Siobhan Baillie) and for Hastings and Rye (Sally-Ann Hart) took legislation through the House on the issue, with the support of the Government. As the right hon. Member for East Ham says, we are still waiting to bring into force these important Acts of Parliament with the important changes that are needed, and we are still waiting for commencement orders. As my hon. Friend the Member for Stroud says, it is vital for section 25 of the Child Maintenance and Other Payments Act 2008 to come into force.

I appreciate that the Minister is very competent, but this matter is not in his brief; he is speaking for my noble Friend Viscount Younger and for the Government more broadly. In July 2022, the Department issued a call for a consultation—not a call for evidence—on enacting section 28 of the 2008 Act, which is about curfew orders. We have still not had a response to that consultation.

By the way, it is perfectly acceptable for a new Secretary of State to come in and change the approach taken by their predecessors and different Prime Ministers. I have no issue with that, but it is important that we hear from the Government what their intentions are. I am not a huge fan of doing lots of pilots. The Government have put forward legislation and Parliament has voted for it, so we should get on with putting it in place. That is one of my key messages. I will take this matter directly to the Minister when I meet him in March, but it could be useful to pre-empt some the questions.

One thing I discovered during our deep dive is that, for people who are not working or are on benefits, there is a “nominal” payment—it is actually quite a significant one for someone who does not really have an income—of £7 a week, to be paid from their benefits to the receiving parent. There are also challenges with universal credit when not everyone is not working, and there may be different elements of income support. One challenge with child maintenance is that those who do not pay everything may end up paying nothing, so over time they end up accruing money to which the child should be entitled. We need to look again at that. We also need to focus a lot more on work coaches getting people into work so that they can start paying for their children.

I will keep to my six minutes, Sir Charles. In essence, we need parents to cough up the cash for their children, and the Child Maintenance Service needs to facilitate that. I am glad that it seems to have dropped the idea that it would potentially do all collect and pay. The state does not need to be involved in every interaction between two parents, but when parents ask it to get involved it must do so to the best of its ability. I look forward to the commencement orders getting under way so we can make sure that children are put first.

[Sir Charles Walker (in the Chair)]

Thank you for being so helpful to the Chair and setting a fine example.

Oral Answers to Questions

Baroness Coffey Excerpts

Monday 5th February 2024 Commons Chamber

[Paul Maynard]

Where parents have certain categories of taxable income not being captured by the standard child maintenance calculation, they can make a request to the CMS to have the calculation varied. We have consulted on proposals to include more types of taxable income held by His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs in the standard maintenance calculation.

[Dr Thérèse Coffey (Suffolk Coastal) (Con)]

The Department has a number of ways to try to get paying parents to cough up, and we must remember that this is cash for the children. In July 2022, the Government consulted on child maintenance and improving our enforcement powers through the commencement of curfew orders, and we still have not had a response to that consultation. I would be grateful to hear from the Government when they plan to respond, and I remind them of the other powers in place, such as depriving people of the ability to drive or of their passport. This is a simple thing, where people have the money and will not cough up the cash. I think we need to get on with curfew orders.

[Paul Maynard]

My right hon. Friend is quite right that the Government have consulted on the use of curfews, which are complex and interact with numerous Government services. Several enforcement initiatives aimed at improving compliance are currently in train, and we need to get those in place and assess their effects before we can best see how curfews might fit with them. I note her enthusiasm for curfews and might well put her in touch with Viscount Younger of Leckie, the Minister in the Lords, whose policy brief this is, so that he can update her on our latest thinking.

Household Support Fund

Baroness Coffey Excerpts

Wednesday 31st January 2024 Westminster Hall

[Dr Thérèse Coffey (Suffolk Coastal) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to speak in this debate, and I congratulate the right hon. Member for East Ham (Sir Stephen Timms) on securing it. He will recall the situation that we were faced with in the middle of covid, when covid was continuing for longer than we had initially expected. Recognising the challenges that families and pensioners were facing, it was right that we took that action then. I give credit to the Prime Minister, who was then the Chancellor, for working with me and my Department to establish the household support fund. It was with great pride that I formally announced the fund on 30 September 2021.

The right hon. Gentleman was right to raise local welfare assistance. Indeed, it was the Department for Work and Pensions that handed money to councils—it was not ringfenced, but the Department took a localist approach. That funding was kept in as part of the baseline grant for many years; I think it was not until 2020 that it was removed from the information that was formally published on the transfer, recognising that councils were still being funded on local welfare assistance.

I am conscious that covid was a challenging time. In particular, we wanted to make sure we went to the upper-tier unitary authorities that had statutory responsibility for children and adults. We made sure the funding was ringfenced, and we also imposed reporting conditions to ensure the money went either directly into people’s hands or to agencies that could make a difference.

I am conscious that quite a lot of councils resorted to vouchers for funding, but I commend Telford and Wrekin Council, and others like it, for thinking ahead. Instead of just handing out vouchers, the council identified the children who were struggling at home and started buying coats for people—they considered the long term. I would have loved to have seen more innovation in some of the ways the money was spent—whether that concerned bed poverty or similar issues—so that the local elements could be identified. It was important to increase funding for pensioners too; they did not have any opportunity to increase their economic income and were struggling.

I hear what councils are saying, and I do think the Government should extend the household support fund—whatever they may choose to call it in the future. We should challenge councils more to work with, for example, community foundations, whereby significant tax relief is given to local philanthropists to make the money go further. At the same time, we still have the holiday activities and food programme. That was established in October 2021 and was deliberately targeted at young children who were receiving free school meals. Those are the sorts of initiatives in which I am proud to have played a part. I urge the Minister to look further at how we can make the most of the money we distribute.

Oral Answers to Questions

Baroness Coffey Excerpts

Monday 11th July 2022 Commons Chamber

[Stephanie Peacock (Barnsley East) (Lab)]

17. If she will make an estimate of projected poverty levels in April 2023.

[The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Dr Thérèse Coffey)]

It is not usual to project poverty levels in terms of statistics—[Interruption.] Does someone want to join in? [Interruption.] I just cannot hear. Somebody is talking. Projecting poverty levels is not something we normally do. However, the latest official statistics show that in 2021, some 8 million people were in poverty in absolute low-income before housing costs, which was a fall on the previous year. I am very conscious of the challenge of the cost of living right now, which is why we are providing a £15 billion support package targeted at the most in need, but I am proud of the fact that we are getting more and more people into work—over half a million in just the past five months. We know that for most people, the best way to get out of poverty is to get into work.

[Alex Cunningham]

Even using the Government’s preferred measure of absolute child poverty, the proportion of children living in absolute poverty rose in every north-east local authority area between 2014-15 and 2019-20, and continued to rise in the first year of the pandemic. In Stockton, that figure is up by 7.1 percentage points; in Hartlepool, it is up by 7.2; in Darlington, it is up by 7.9; in Redcar, it is up by 9.4; and in Middlesbrough, it is up by a colossal 13.9 percentage points. Those are not just numbers: they represent thousands of children. Can the Minister tell the House which of the Tory leadership candidates will be content to see children in places such as Stockton go hungry, and which of them will take action to ensure they do not?

[Dr Coffey]

I would be grateful if the hon. Gentleman would give me the specific source of his statistics, because I believe that statistically, child poverty has actually fallen, something of which Government Members are proud. Nevertheless, he will be pleased by the fact that people have opportunities and are getting into work. That is what we will continue to do, because we know that children in workless households are undoubtedly more likely to be in poverty. That is why we continue to focus on getting their parents into work.

[Stephanie Peacock]

One in three children in Barnsley are living in poverty. My constituent cares for his disabled eight-year-old son. He recently started a part-time job to supplement his income, but after working just two hours’ overtime, he had a whole month of carer’s allowance deducted. The Secretary of State has just said that the best route out of poverty is to get into work, so can she explain why those who receive carer’s allowance are penalised for doing just that?

[Dr Coffey]

I expect that the hon. Lady’s constituent is receiving the caring element of universal credit, rather than carer’s allowance specifically, which is a slightly separate approach. Universal credit is a dynamic benefit. It reflects the fact that when a person is working more, they receive less support from other taxpayers, and—just as happened at the beginning of the covid pandemic—when taxpayers are working less, they immediately started receiving more. That is the success of universal credit, and we will continue to encourage people to get into work.

[Henry Smith (Crawley) (Con)]

14. How many people have been auto-enrolled in workplace pensions in Crawley constituency since 2012.

--- Later in debate ---

[Nick Fletcher (Don Valley) (Con)]

15. What steps she plans to take to support young people into work following the closure of the kickstart scheme.

[The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Dr Thérèse Coffey)]

Following the success of kickstart, which has seen over 163,000 jobs started by young people, with approximately 30,000 still on that scheme, the DWP youth offer remains in place to support those who still need help. That includes youth hubs, which bring together partner organisations and the DWP in local communities to provide employment and skills support.

[Nick Fletcher]

I have spoken with many young people since becoming an MP. They believe that waiting and fighting for their dream job is the right thing to do. Does the Secretary of State agree with me that our young people should take opportunities that arise which will get them earning while still applying for their dream job, as that will not jeopardise their chances but will, most probably, do exactly the opposite?

[Dr Coffey]

As ever, my hon. Friend talks common sense. It is really important that people realise that the heart of our Way to Work campaign is ABC—any job, better job, career. We know that having a job already allows people to build a lot of skills so they can progress, perhaps in the job of their dreams. Through support such as the DWP youth offer, work coaches will continue to help unemployed young people move into a range of roles. The skills and work experience that people can gain from a job will help them to progress.

[Sir Robert Neill (Bromley and Chislehurst) (Con)]

16. If she will make an assessment of the impact of the universal credit minimum income floor on performers and creative workers with unpredictable and fluctuating earnings.

--- Later in debate ---

[Rachel Hopkins (Luton South) (Lab)]

T2. If she will make a statement on her departmental responsibilities.

[The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Dr Thérèse Coffey)]

At this moment, I am delighted to have a team who are making sure that the wheels of government keep turning. That is particularly true given that we are the biggest delivery Department in Whitehall, on which so many vulnerable people rely.

It is certainly my focus to deliver help for households. As the Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions, my hon. Friend the Member for Norwich North (Chloe Smith) pointed out, we will be sending out the first instalment of the £650 cost of living payments, starting from this Thursday.

We are also building on our successful Way to Work scheme, having smashed our ambition to get half a million people into a job in just five months, thanks to help from my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Sussex (Mims Davies). Dare I say, Mr Speaker, that that is way to go for Way to Work!

We are now putting more focus on those further from the labour market who are economically inactive or most at risk of inactivity, whether through the lifetime MOT offer or the £1.3 billion-worth of employment support for disabled people. That will help to grow the economy and ensure that more people are on the path to prosperity and prospects through work.

[Rachel Hopkins]

Many of my Luton South constituents are struggling to make ends meet. In fact, across the east of England, 50% of Citizens Advice debt clients are in a negative budget, with their monthly expenditure on essentials exceeding their income; that is up 12% from the same period in 2019. Does the Secretary of State still think that it is a good idea for the Government to raise taxes this year, when the UK is the only G7 country to do so?

[Dr Coffey]

The hon. Lady will be aware of the £37 billion package that is going to households, £15 billion of which is being deployed this year. People will already have received some elements of that through council tax support, and I have outlined the cost of living payment support. I could add to that the lifting of the national living wage to £9.50 an hour and the reduction in the taper rate to 55% for people who are working and on universal credit. We are targeting support at the most challenged low-income households, and we will continue to do that. Meanwhile, we will continue to try to do what we can to grow the economy to help households, so that we can tackle inflation overall.

[Elliot Colburn (Carshalton and Wallington) (Con)]

T3. Will my right hon. Friend outline how, thanks to the work incentives built into universal credit, some 11,600 Carshalton and Wallington residents—in working households, which is welcome—will receive a cost of living payment in the coming days, and will she set out what she is doing to ensure that even more people from Carshalton and Wallington can get into work?

[Dr Coffey]

My hon. Friend continues to be a champion for his constituents. He will be aware of aspects of the Way to Work campaign that are different from how they were in the past. Far more job fairs are happening, bringing employers into jobcentres for interviews. That enables us to make quicker decisions, find out what is going wrong in the process and support people so that they can more quickly get the pay packet that they cherish.

[Jonathan Ashworth (Leicester South) (Lab/Co-op)]

As we have heard, it is expected that the energy price cap will rise by £450 more than was anticipated when the Government announced their cost of living package. A typical household will face energy bills of £3,250; that is more than a third of the value of the state pension. How on earth does the Secretary of State expect pensioners and families to cope this winter?

[Dr Coffey]

I think the right hon. Gentleman is referring to an external analyst’s prediction of what might happen with energy prices. Nevertheless, the Government have responded. We deliberately made sure that our cost of living payment package came out when Ofgem made its announcement, and that is why we tailored the cost of living payment support to help households. We will make sure that support for household energy costs goes to every single household in the country, in addition to our comprehensive package. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy leads on fuel poverty. I am conscious that in making decisions, he will consider the vulnerable the most, as all of us in the Government do.

[Jonathan Ashworth]

I appreciate that the Secretary of State may not be in her place come this October—who knows?—but she is currently in a Cabinet with a Chancellor and a Foreign Secretary, and she shares the Government Benches with a whole host of colleagues, who have made £30 billion to £40 billion-worth of unfunded tax cut commitments. Is not the truth that those tax cuts can be paid for only by further cuts to the state pension, further cuts to universal credit and further cuts to disability benefit, and that the reality is that the next Tory Prime Minister will make the cost of living crisis even worse?

[Dr Coffey]

Far from it; as has been shown yet again, this Conservative Government have stepped up to deal with the cost of living challenge, just as we did through covid, and we will continue to do so. That is why we will be spending £37 billion on this. As for support going forward, I am conscious that people who are running to be leader of the Conservative party and the future Prime Minister want, quite rightly, to make sure that we have an active, growing economy. I will leave them to be judged on their policies. I am the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, and we are going ahead with the additional payments, starting this week. Many households will be looking forward to them, and I am pleased that we are able to deliver them.

[Mrs Sheryll Murray (South East Cornwall) (Con)]

T6. I frequently get complaints from people in the agriculture sector that they cannot get the workers they need from the UK jobs market. What more can the Department do, perhaps working with educational facilities such as Duchy College in Cornwall, to get jobseekers into these important roles?

--- Later in debate ---

[Kirsty Blackman (Aberdeen North) (SNP)]

The UK Government recently rejected the Work and Pensions Committee report’s recommendation to

“extend Child Benefit to all British children irrespective of their parents’ immigration status.”

People with no recourse to public funds do not qualify for the additional cost of living payments. Children are literally starving and suffering malnutrition because of this cruel policy. Does the Secretary of State believe that this is acceptable in the 21st century?

[Dr Coffey]

The hon. Lady refers to the fact that people without recourse to public funds are not eligible for benefits. When people arrive, I accept that they are not going to be eligible for child benefit. Any family in a state of difficulty can apply to the Home Office for a review of that status; it is for them to do so. At the same time, as I think we confirmed to the Select Committee when we discussed the matter at the hearing last week, it is for local councils to design the way they do the household support fund. It may be possible for people without recourse to public funds to apply to their local authority.

[Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

Will the Secretary of State confirm that support for the welfare state depends on a kind of social contract where people realise that those who are pensioners or out of work should be helped because they have paid their taxes? How is support for the welfare state improved when 60,000 people a year are pouring across the channel, paying illegal smugglers—these are not the poorest of the poor—and being kept on social security, maybe for 10 years, without ever being deported? By the way, what does it cost?

[Dr Coffey]

I am conscious that through the help—the visa schemes—being put forward for Ukrainian citizens and for Afghan resettlement, there is access to public funds. My right hon. Friend will be aware that people who arrive in the country illegally are given a payment via the Home Office, I think, of a very small amount of money to pay for the day-to-day, but they are not eligible directly for benefits.

[Ian Byrne (Liverpool, West Derby) (Lab)]

T4. One in five pensioners in the UK is living in poverty, 1.3 million retirees are undernourished and 25,000 people die each year because of cold weather. The situation is dire and is getting worse and worse by the day. What discussions will the Secretary of State have with her new colleague the Chancellor to reverse the cruel Government cuts to the state pension and provide the 5,360 women in Liverpool, West Derby who are affected by the changes to the women’s state pension age with the full restitution that they fully deserve?