Universal Credit

Richard Graham Excerpts

Wednesday 19th April 2017 Westminster Hall

[Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con)]

I want to speak today to try to balance the picture of doom and gloom that some Members have painted about not just universal credit but the entire welfare system and indeed all the welfare reforms of the past seven years.

In early 2009, I received an extremely emotional letter from a constituent who had tried to do the right thing by going back to work. However, she immediately found that by working more than 16 hours a week she was in fact far worse off. She asked me how that could be—why did welfare policy trap her and not help her? I promised then that I would work as hard as I could for a system where work always pays.

When I hear the hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne North (Catherine McKinnell) saying that people working through universal credit are only 37p in the pound better off net of reduced benefits, rather than the 45p in the pound that was originally intended, I want to remind her that that same person was not only nought pence better off per pound under the previous Labour system but was significantly worse off as a result of being unable to keep any of the money she was earning and losing significantly as a result of the benefits lost. So universal credit delivers on the “work always pays” approach and I hope that we will never go back to a system where work does not pay.

Equally, when other Members complain about the delayed roll-out of universal credit, I remind them how disastrous the “big bang” approach of the roll-out of tax credits only a decade ago actually was. The gradual process of rolling out universal credit is infinitely preferable.

Let me also give some reassurance to the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon), who is not currently in his place. He is awaiting the arrival of universal credit, but it is good news for his constituents and, when it arrives in his constituency, he should go and see the people on it, as I have done in my constituency of Gloucester, and hear from them what their own experience is. In fact, earlier today I spoke to the Jobcentre Plus in Gloucester. Its staff are broadly very positive about universal credit. We now have 720 people on it, of whom roughly 220 are working. Many of the others are on training courses, including for things such as forklifts. That is broadly good news, but that does not mean that everything is perfect.

The Work and Pensions Committee started an investigation into universal credit only a few weeks ago. I am afraid we will be unable to finish it before Parliament is prorogued, but it has flagged up two issues that others Members have alluded to and which I hope the Minister will touch on in due course. The first is the delay in payments to individuals, and the second is the inability of some who are claiming universal credit to manage their finances adequately so that they do not get into arrears on their rent payments. Both are real issues. There is a case for saying that some housing associations need to engage with their tenants more effectively than they have in the past. Guaranteed payments are an extremely easy business for any landlord; none the less, there are problems, and most jobcentres and housing associations will confirm that.

In conclusion, universal credit is happening. The slow and arguably delayed roll-out is a good thing in terms of allowing for the problems that occur with any big system to be rectified early, before the system goes nationwide. It is coming on faster now, and there are two specific areas where the Department will need to look closely at whether improvements can be made.

Personal Independence Payments

Richard Graham Excerpts

Wednesday 15th March 2017 Commons Chamber

[Damian Green]

Since, I think, this is the second time that we have discussed this issue in a week, it is hard to argue that Parliament is not having a say. We have followed the usual procedure: we have tabled a statutory instrument, which the hon. Gentleman and his party leader, the hon. Member for Westmorland and Lonsdale (Tim Farron), are free to pray against, and which then goes through the usual channels. This is a perfectly normal procedure.

[Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con)]

There appear to be two frequent misunderstandings about the legal judgments: first, that the Government amendment amounts to a cut, and, secondly, that people with mental health disabilities get less under PIP than under DLA. So will my right hon. Friend confirm again that actually there is no cut at all to people who previously had an award through PIP, and, secondly, that actually those with mental health disabilities get more under PIP than they did under DLA?

[Damian Green]

I am happy to reassure my hon. Friend that nobody who had an award from the Department for Work and Pensions will have that award reduced, and indeed that PIP is demonstrably a much better benefit than DLA for people with mental health conditions. Is there room for improvement? There is always room for improvement in life.

Intergenerational Fairness

Richard Graham Excerpts

1st reading: House of Commons
Tuesday 28th February 2017 Commons Chamber

[Justin Tomlinson]

I thank my hon. Friend for that powerful intervention. He is a real champion for his constituency. On his point about universities, my Swindon constituency benefits from having a huge influx of graduates, so we benefit from the network of local universities within striking distance of Swindon, which is why our area has seen such strong economic growth.

My hon. Friend is absolutely right to highlight the importance of university technical colleges. My constituency had one of the first UTCs—a £10 million facility in Swindon. It has had its teething problems, but the principle is fantastic, because it is identifying the people who would ultimately be doing advanced engineering and technical work, giving them a real focus on that. They are working with local businesses, which can help to shape the curriculum to fill the skills gaps that can be identified in the local economy. This means that young people will have the best chance of having a career at the end of their education.

The challenge with university technical colleges is how to attract the best and most able students for that type of education at the age of 14. Not unsurprisingly, schools, which are all judged by league tables, are not always brilliantly keen to encourage their most able students to transfer, because it will have a detrimental effect on their place in the league tables. I would urge the schools Minister to consider having a dual score in the league tables, whereby the student remains attributed to the original school, but the results can be shared with the UTC. That would get around the disincentive facing schools if they lose some of their best students. It will give them the opportunity to say, “Look, they are doing great; but they can do even greater with that type of specialist education”. Undoubtedly, apprenticeships and UTCs are making a huge difference.

Not everybody has the opportunity to walk straight into work. As a society, we therefore have a duty to make sure that our jobcentre network is at its most able to support people. I was not the Minister responsible for jobcentres during my time in the Department for Work and Pensions but we had a lot of joint meetings and I got very excited about the need to refresh our jobcentre network. I had been on a number of visits and I was fundamentally depressed when I saw the 1960s and 1970s concrete structures and the security guards who are, understandably, needed. Let me imagine, though, that I am going to a jobcentre. I am almost certainly nervous, and I am then greeted by a security guard in bleak surroundings. There is no celebration of the successes, and no highlighting of those who have faced the same challenges that I fear but know that I must overcome.

I also visited a Shaw Trust community hub that helped a number of people who were a long way away from entering the workplace. There were bright colours and great furniture. This security guard had a different uniform to show that he was a welcomer: as soon as people arrived they were made to feel special, were congratulated on taking this step, and were made aware that he was there to be their anchor throughout the process. It was a real hub of activity. I could see nervous people coming into the building, but as soon as they met the guard they were at their ease, keen to engage in the process and fulfil their potential.

I am delighted that the Government have rolled out this system. When I visited the Swindon jobcentre a few weeks ago, I was not sure what to expect. I was greeted by senior members of staff, who told me excitedly that although the jobcentre had a budget of only about £3,000, they had painted the walls, changed the furniture around, changed the way the entrance worked, and provided work stations so that people could use computers to look for jobs independently after receiving support from the staff. Those staff members were excited because those improvements had transformed their morale and engagement among those with whom they sought to work.

The staff were then keen to talk to me about the difference that universal credit was making by simplifying what had been an incredibly complex benefits system. Under the old system, involving about 167 benefits, it was necessary to be a nuclear physicist to work out what people were or were not entitled to. All too often, through our casework, we would discover that, because of the complexity of that system, our constituents were missing out on support to which they should have been entitled.

Everyone supports the idea of a simplified single benefit that enshrines the principle that the more people work, the better off they will always be, and removes the ridiculous 16-hour cliff edge that prevented people from progressing from part-time to full-time work, to the frustration both of employers and of those whose circumstances were changing and who wished to build up their hours. Crucially, real-time technology now allows people with fluctuating health conditions to have a minimum income. As the condition goes up or down, the system automatically kicks in, so that people no longer constantly have to reapply and experience complicated bureaucracy when they want to focus on dealing with their health challenges and with remaining, or progressing, in work.

Often it is the simplest things that make the biggest difference. Another exciting development is that, for the first time, there are named work coaches. When people arrive at the jobcentre, they do not just need direct help with their search for work; there are a number of other challenges that they may need to navigate, such as securing childcare or additional training. The named coach will help them through that process, giving them significantly more time to concentrate on looking for the work that they would like. The coach will stay with people when they start work, which will also make a huge difference.

Many of us, looking back on our careers, will realise that we were probably driven mostly by our parents encouraging us to make progress—encouraging us not to be complacent; encouraging us to push ourselves—but that is not a given in life. When I was at school, it was a given that many people had no interest in going to work. That was a shame, because they were brilliant people, and with the right encouragement they could have made huge successes of themselves.

Often, people—especially those who have been out of work for a long time—will enter work, but on the lowest wage. Sometimes they will then stagnate, and will not have the confidence to kick on to higher levels. Let us suppose, for example, that I have been out of work for a long period, and have secured work in a supermarket. I am determined to make it a success, so I turn up every day, work my hours diligently, and stay there. Now, however, the named work coach would contact me and ask, “How is it going?” I would say, “For the last three months I have turned up every day and worked as hard as I possibly can.” The named work coach might say, “Have you thought about asking to become the supervisor?” The reply would be, “I’m too shy to do that.” The named coach would say, “No problem,” and then ask the supervisors and managers in the store, “Is he ready to take that step up?” Therefore, the coaches help people to progress in the workplace.

It is great that we have 2.7 million more people in work and that we have introduced the national living wage, which has helped the 6 million lowest earners to get a pay rise, but the next challenge, as we move close to full structural employment, is to ensure that there is support for in-work progression, so that everyone can not just get a job but fulfil their potential. By working hard, they can then progress through those organisations.

[Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con)]

I want to come back to the subject of the debate, intergenerational fairness. My hon. Friend has made some points about working issues. Does he agree that for those who have retired or are working but are due a pension a key issue is not only intergenerational fairness but fairness between people who own and run companies and who have responsibilities to people in pension schemes? The news today is a good example of how this place can help to secure the best outcomes for those who are promised pensions in a not very rich retirement world.

[Justin Tomlinson]

I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention. I am always at a loss to understand why he is not a Minister. He is one of our most able MPs. In the debates that I have attended, time and again, he is so thoughtful. I had a brilliant time visiting his constituency as a Minister to see the great work that he had done to help to promote apprentices, before it became fashionable and all of us started to campaign for more apprenticeships. He is always ahead of the curve. Rightly, his intervention highlights that we have to look at people of all ages and at the opportunities. I was an employer myself, so I understand the responsibilities to staff in respect of pensions and other benefits and career progression. As ever, he makes a powerful point.

--- Later in debate ---

[Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con)]

It is a great pleasure to join the debate at this late stage, a debate introduced in a sense with the very good news about BHS pensioners. Many of us serving on the Select Committees chaired by the right hon. Member for Birkenhead (Frank Field) and the hon. Member for Hartlepool (Mr Wright) share the enthusiasm for that result.

On intergenerational fairness, let me start by putting the case for the prosecution, as it were, which was laid out in more detail in the Select Committee inquiry that I and many other Members here today were involved in. The Committee effectively said that the UK economy is skewed. We focused on some key elements: house prices; life expectancy; the burden of looking after the old financed by the young; the triple lock on pensions; and the implicit social contract between generations that we felt had become skewed. That triggered two or three specific recommendations, in particular on the new state pension tracking earnings and doing away with the triple lock.

The factual evidence behind the case for the prosecution is highlighted in the figure that the value of the full state pension as a percentage of average earnings is now the highest it has been since the late 1980s. However, there is of course more to it than that. Some of the points I would like to highlight include the fact that spending on pensioners as a percentage of GDP is falling. That is partly due to a growing economy, increases in the state pension age and the fact that the triple lock applies only to the basic state pension and new pensions. The statistics, therefore, are not always helpful in terms of anticipating the future. One other point is that there is a strong feeling among some of us that the basic state pension needed to increase quite sharply, particularly between 2010 and 2020, because it had fallen behind strongly in the previous decade. Everyone will remember the business of the 75p increase under a previous Government. This is, therefore, not quite as simple a proposition as it first appears.

Among our pensioners today are those who served this country in extremely difficult times, including world wars and other conflicts. Many were brought up in very difficult circumstances in a world far removed from the conditions that most people today can imagine. There is then the matter of the young. The young have always faced challenges; their challenges have just changed over time. One hundred years ago people leaving school at the age of 18 were facing extremely different challenges, many of them on the western front. My own grandparents, as young people, met shortly after the carnage on the Somme, where my grandfather had been severely injured. The woman who became his wife was nursing him. Although the challenges of today are considerable, we should not underestimate those of the past.

One of the ironies of our leaving the EU at this stage is that we are just beginning to adopt a more European approach to the homes we live in and to rent them for much longer, as they do on the continent. In a sense, the Government have recognised that in their ambition to create more social housing available for rent.

Other points have been well made, particularly by my hon. Friend the Member for North Swindon (Justin Tomlinson), who articulated much of what many of us feel about the National Citizen Service, which has so far cost about £1.2 billion—that is not on any balance sheet, of course, in terms of intergenerational fairness—apprenticeships and youth unemployment, which is at its lowest for 12 years, and the openings and opportunities in universities and further education colleges.

In that regard, I hope that the former right hon. Member for Havant, in his current role as chairman of the Resolution Foundation, when he is being provocative from that platform, does not try to set pensioners, those of working age and the young against each other, for that could be extremely counterproductive, as I will go on to set out. [Interruption.] Of course, things can be done to improve the balance in the relationship. Some of those were mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Weston-super-Mare (John Penrose), and we could look at a double, not a triple lock.

I can see that you are agitating, Mr Speaker, so I shall finish. In our efforts to make sure that the costs of old age do not cripple the future generations paying for them, we should never forget the hugely positive role that so many pensioners, grandparents and great grandparents play, looking after children and sharing their love and wisdom with their families, especially where the parents’ own relationships have broken down and the children are often being guided by their grandparents. In many ways, older people are always helping out and passing on knowledge. Let us never forget that.

The Resolution Foundation wants to analyse the balance of fiscal contributions and withdrawals. It is right that that should be done by that foundation and not the Government. Let us not forget, however, that incredibly sensitive issues are at stake, some of which emerged as moral issues during our discussion of the Assisted Dying Bill. We do not want to end up inadvertently setting generations’ interests against one another. At the end of the day, let us be mindful of what many in the House believe and the late Jo Cox articulated brilliantly: what we all have in common is so much more than what divides us, including across generations.

Pension Schemes Bill [Lords]

Richard Graham Excerpts

2nd reading: House of Commons
Monday 30th January 2017 Commons Chamber

[Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con)]

It is a great pleasure to join in the debate. May I say how nice it was to have two such constructive contributions from the SNP? My friend the hon. Member for Ross, Skye and Lochaber (Ian Blackford) and the hon. Member for Aberdeen North (Kirsty Blackman) spoke from the perspectives of considerable industry knowledge and the view of a younger generation, which were extremely valuable in tonight’s debate.

I rise to congratulate the Government on introducing a Bill with the simple and absolutely correct objectives of providing essential protections for people saving in master trusts and giving those people the same security as members of single-employer schemes. That is the key thing. Many people listening to this debate will wonder what on earth a master trust is. The simple way to explain it is that it is a multi-employer occupational pension scheme. The question that many people will be asking is: why do these things exist in the first place? The answer is of course that they have advantages of scale. That means that small employers do not have to create their own trust; they can join an existing master trust, which can reduce their costs, administration and overall hassle, and that is incredibly important for a small employer.

The downside, unfortunately, is that master trusts do not, as a mandatory requirement, have to pursue the best interests of the scheme members. They can take a purely commercial approach to generating profit. Their trustees do not have to pass the fit and proper persons test, the master trust does not have to be authorised, and there is a question mark over what would happen to the assets in the case of the master trust failing.

For all those reasons, the Select Committee, under the chairmanship of my distinguished colleague the right hon. Member for Birkenhead (Frank Field), looked at this issue in some detail last year. In effect, it made three key recommendations: first, that a pensions Bill should establish minimum finance and governance standards; secondly, that there would be ongoing requirements for master trust schemes and for compliance; and thirdly, that there should be measures to protect member assets in the event of a master trust winding up.

The report, which was written last May, was accompanied by a letter from the Chairman of the Select Committee to the Chancellor at the time, asking him to make sure that there would be a pensions Bill in the Queen’s Speech. To be fair, the Government have delivered precisely that. In fact, the previous Pensions Minister said she wanted a pensions Bill to provide stronger regulation of master trusts, and the current Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Pensions is now taking that forward and delivering the promised Bill.

I felt that the hon. Member for Oldham East and Saddleworth (Debbie Abrahams) was a little curmudgeonly to say that the Bill was long overdue. In fact, it is being delivered surprisingly fast. As other Members have pointed out, although there have been a couple of cases of small master trusts failing, they have been taken over very swiftly and easily, and as far as we are aware, nobody has lost any money so far. The Bill is therefore slightly ahead of the curve in dealing, we hope, with the problem ahead and providing the necessary framework and structures.

The industry has responded constructively to the changes. If we look at the three main bodies that have responded—the Association of British Insurers, the Pensions and Lifetime Savings Association and NOW: Pensions, which is the snappily named pensions provider of Danish origin—we can see that all three have made constructive comments. Some of the comments will need to be taken up in the Public Bill Committee, but they have broadly supported the ideas that the Bill is putting forward.

In essence, the Government have focused on three separate items. First, there are the master trusts, which will have to be authorised. Secondly, there are the people—the trustees—who will have to pass the fit and proper persons test. Thirdly, there are the assets, which will have to be ring-fenced and protected. Those are all good things, although they raise one major question to which I hope my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary will respond in his winding-up speech. They require the Pensions Regulator to do a lot of important work, and there is a question mark over whether that body has the right resources. He will no doubt be able to tell us more about his discussions with the regulator and what they have agreed on resources. Without the right resources, these important changes will clearly not be implemented effectively.

There we have it: it is a simple and important Bill that everyone should support. The tone of this debate has been constructive. There will, however, be details to go through at the next stage of the Bill’s progress. For example, the PLSA has raised questions about whether the requirement for the scheme funder to be an independent entity is too onerous. NOW: Pensions has noted that only four master trusts have actually passed the master trust assurance framework full audit, which is disappointing. The ABI has questioned whether master trusts attracting members not connected to an employer—in other words, those in what is known as the decumulation phase—should be regulated by the FCA. Those three issues can be considered at the Bill’s next stage.

In closing, I just want to say that the Bill is important, and I am grateful to the Government for bringing it forward. Some good issues have been raised, and I will support the Bill.

Jobcentre Plus Offices: Closure

Richard Graham Excerpts

Monday 30th January 2017 Commons Chamber

[Caroline Nokes]

I would like to direct the hon. Lady’s attention to the National Audit Office report of 2005, which says:

“One of the Department’s main needs is flexibility in the amount of accommodation it uses.”

I reassure the hon. Lady that we are ensuring that we retain enough flexibility within the system to be able to cope with future changes in the jobs market.

[Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con)]

For those out of work or in other difficulties, it could be incredibly useful if citizens rights bureaux, jobcentre plus offices, council offices, local law centres and possibly agencies for those with disabilities were found in the same place—more or less co-located. Will the Minister update us on the extent to which regional Jobcentre Plus managers are discussing that with local authorities?

[Caroline Nokes]

I do not intend to give a blow-by-blow account of the sensitive commercial negotiations, but my hon. Friend will be aware that we are working very closely with local authorities, the voluntary sector and the education sector to make sure that we can put co-location in place. I direct him to the co-location that has taken place in Lincoln, which has proved to be a beacon of how we can best deliver services.

DWP Policies and Low-income Households

Richard Graham Excerpts

Tuesday 17th January 2017 Commons Chamber

[Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con)]

Madam Deputy Speaker, you would not know from the speeches made by Scottish National party Members this evening that welfare spending in the United Kingdom was £264 billion in 2015-16. That made up 35% of public spending and 14% of GDP. All those figures are higher than they were in 2010. We rose from being 20th in the world in terms of welfare spending in 2000 to 13th in the world by 2013, yet there are some who think that we should be spending still more. I say to the Members from Glasgow who have spoken today, and to the hon. Member for Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey (Drew Hendry), that if their constituents are struggling to afford telephone calls to their Jobcentre Plus, why does their party in Scotland not pay for the calls instead of spending £6 million a year on baby boxes for every child born in Scotland? The Scotsman has said that

“for the vast majority of the four in five Scottish children who are not living in poverty, it seems to be an indulgent use of state cash.”

In contrast, our Government have focused on opportunity, education, skills and jobs, doubling free childcare, providing far more outstanding schools and 2.5 million apprenticeships and creating more jobs than in the whole of the rest of the EU put together. The result is that unemployment is down from 7.9% to 4.8% while free allowances for the lowest paid have almost doubled and salaries under the new national living wage have gone up by more than 6% in the past year alone.

There are parties that believe in the hand up, and there are those that focus entirely on the handout. Every party must decide where it stands. When Beveridge wrote his great report in 1942, he said:

“The State in organising security should not stifle incentive, opportunity, responsibility…it should leave room and encouragement for voluntary action by each individual to provide more than the minimum”.

That was the right balance then, and it is the right balance today. Let me finish with these wise words:

“If you let yourself be put in the ‘soft’ box on welfare, then it’s almost impossible to do anything to tackle disadvantage and unfairness—because it will always be more grist to the mill of those who want to caricature you as weak and interested only in spending more taxpayers’ money and undermining the work ethic upon which so much depends.”

Those wise words were written by an enlightened Labour Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, John Hutton. It is a message and a warning that the hon. Member for Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey, and all his colleagues, should heed as they gallop along the road of irresponsible spending.

State Pension Age: Women

Richard Graham Excerpts

Wednesday 30th November 2016 Commons Chamber

[Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con)]

As other hon. Members have commented, this is our umpteenth debate on the WASPI campaign. We have already covered this ground in huge detail. Indeed, the Work and Pensions Committee produced an extensive report on this subject, entitled “Communication of state pension age changes”, in March this year. So what is new today? What has changed? In my view, there are three things.

First, the WASPI campaign has split into two. The original campaign required a reversal of the Pensions Act 1995, which was all about equalising women’s pensions with men’s, but three of the five original founders have resigned over disagreements over what constitute fair transitional arrangements.

Secondly, the WASPI campaigners born between 1953 and 1955 are now close to receiving their state pension. Many of them will start receiving it in 2018, and all of them will receive it before the 2020 election. That fact is convenient because it means that Labour Members, who did not put this issue in their 2015 manifesto, will not be able to put it into their 2020 manifesto either, because it will no longer be relevant.

Thirdly, Scottish National party Members believe that they have found a way to fund a reversal of the Pensions Act 2011, which was accelerating the equality of women’s pensions. In fact, they have gone further than that. The Daily Business quoted the hon. Member for Ross, Skye and Lochaber (Ian Blackford), in whose name this debate is taking place, as saying that he had found a solution:

“The Tories have tried to wash their hands of this crisis…which is why the SNP decided to do the work for them.”

In doing the work for them, the hon. Gentleman has identified that the national insurance fund—which funds welfare benefits—is the source of the £8 billion he believes will rectify the situation. The Government believe that it would cost £30 billion. His suggestion is arguably the most extraordinary of all time in this House. It is irresponsible, inappropriate and inaccurate, and it is seriously worrying that the hon. Gentleman, who has worked in the pensions industry for a long time, believes that he has done the work. His work needs serious improvement.

Interestingly, the SNP leader said that this is an issue on which the

“UK government must make transitional arrangements”.

However, while pensions remain a UK Government responsibility, things could be done by the SNP Government. The powers have been devolved, and the Scottish Government could use them now. The SNP is leading the WASPI campaign up the garden path. It is to be regretted that good women, some of whom are in trouble, are being so seriously misled by ostensibly serious politicians. We should turn the motion down.

Oral Answers to Questions

Richard Graham Excerpts

Monday 21st November 2016 Commons Chamber

[Richard Harrington]

I thank my hon. Friend for that question, and I totally agree with him.

[Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that the difficulty with Labour’s proposal on pension credit is that it does not reflect what is actually sought by the WASPI campaign, which goes right back to the Pensions Act 1995? That would almost certainly be illegal—[Interruption]—under the rules of fair progress for both sexes on pensions, and it would cost an absolute fortune?

[Richard Harrington]

I totally agree with my hon. Friend. I heard a Labour Member shouting, “Tell that to the destitute.” Well, we have a very good benefits system in this country, and I am sure that those people who are destitute are very familiar with it.

Oral Answers to Questions

Richard Graham Excerpts

Monday 11th July 2016 Commons Chamber

[Justin Tomlinson]

The Treasury already publishes cumulative distribution analysis, including welfare spending, health spending, employment support and infrastructure investment, but we also need to consider increases in employment, increases in hours and earnings, universal credit, PIP, personal tax allowance changes, health spending, employment support and investment in infrastructure.

[Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con)]

T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.

[The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Stephen Crabb)]

On 6 July I appointed Paul Gray to lead a second independent review of PIP. A call for evidence has been published today, seeking evidence from individuals and organisations to inform the review. The review will consider how effectively further evidence is being used to assist the correct claim decision. It will also look at the speed and effectiveness of information gathering, as well as building on recommendations from the first review. I am today announcing the Department’s intention to conduct an evaluation of PIP, with initial findings to be published by early 2017.

[Richard Graham]

To help deliver our manifesto commitment of bringing a million people with disabilities into work, will my right hon. Friend consider extending the current exemption from employer national insurance contributions for apprentices both to additional apprentices and to full-time employees with disabilities, so that, like the US, the Netherlands and Ireland, our tax system benefits employers who see the abilities as well as the disabilities of all our constituents?

[Stephen Crabb]

When it comes to closing the disability employment gap, I am absolutely clear that no options have been left off the table. We want to look at the widest possible range of solutions, including financial incentives such as our small employment offer, which will support small businesses to increase local job opportunities for disabled people.

Employment for People with Disabilities

Richard Graham Excerpts

Tuesday 5th July 2016 Westminster Hall

[Derek Thomas]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right and I welcome her intervention. The mistake in the rhetoric of how we challenge welfare is that it is about saving money, but it is not. It is often about trying to provide people with full lives so that they feel confident and able to contribute and have satisfying work. My hon. Friend is right to mention that. I want to concentrate on learning difficulties because they present particular challenges and I believe I have identified how to resolve them. Anything we can do to help people to grow in confidence and to manage their health issues by supporting them to feel that they have something to offer is good for everyone. Thank you very much for that.

I have recently had the great and amazing privilege of meeting the people behind Helston and the Lizard Works. I used to work in Helston. The Lizard is a lovely part of Cornwall and a tourist area, but it had the highest number of people not in education, employment or training of any rural part of the country. I take a particular interest in the challenges facing people, particularly the young, on the Lizard and how they access work. Helston and the Lizard Works is unique. Many people believe the challenge is too great and that we should accept that some people will never be able to work, but Helston and the Lizard Works does not believe this and through a unique back-to-work business and community-based project in my constituency it has shown that with the correct support people can overcome enormous obstacles and take control of their own future.

It is important to make the point that being jobless is not just an individual’s problem. It is a business and community issue that can have a business and community solution. Helston and Lizard Works has engaged with local businesses and encouraged them to give their time to inspire and support jobseekers. It has run community projects to allow jobseekers the chance to get involved in their local community. It set out to help 40 people into work—I have explained how challenging Helston and the Lizard are geographically—and ended up achieving this for 104 people, which in a rural area such as west Cornwall is remarkable. It has helped many other people besides.

I selfishly mention these projects and examples in my constituency because each one and many more like them throughout the country have three things in common. They are brilliant in what they do, they are well placed to develop this work further and to help the Government to achieve their target for getting for helping people into employment, and they are all strapped for cash. I am arguing that as the Government develop their Green Paper, they should recognise that such groups are well placed to support people as they prepare for work and find work and when they are in work. If we get this right, we can transform the lives of many people, and I am excited about the opportunities ahead.

As I prepared for this debate, I thought back to some of the barriers I encountered when supporting people with learning disabilities. I will touch on them briefly simply to emphasise the contribution that many community groups already on the ground can make and that they are ready to act. The transition from school to work for people with learning disabilities has particular challenges. The hon. Member for Huddersfield (Mr Sheerman) referred to this, and it is also true for people with autism. Community-based organisations could be funded to work with schools and colleges to identify suitable work placements and apprenticeship opportunities, and to support youngsters in this transition period.

[Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con)]

Hearing about my hon. Friend’s experience of bringing people with disabilities into the workplace is incredibly valuable to us all. In the Works and Pensions Committee yesterday, one of the ideas I floated over some of the people from whom we were taking evidence was that to encourage more young people into apprenticeships we should incentivise small and medium-sized businesses as we did some years ago for people without disabilities. Does he agree that allowing SMEs to have up to two apprentices with disabilities without having to pay national insurance would help to incentivise them to take on apprentices with disabilities?

[Derek Thomas]

I certainly think that such initiatives are important in breaking the deadlock when employers are not absolutely sure that they can provide those opportunities. I am looking at how to make that possible in my office. I understand that support and grants for apprenticeships continue to the age of 25 for people with disabilities. It is important to recognise that advantage, but we should do more.

--- Later in debate ---

[Derek Thomas]

Actually, until today I had been wanting to hurry on the process of the Green Paper, but having achieved this Westminster Hall debate, which I had been seeking for some time, I am glad that we have not had the Green Paper yet, because I am hoping that everything I am suggesting and the other suggestions made today will be included in it. I will be looking to see exactly how my local community organisations will benefit from this morning’s debate in the Green Paper.

[Richard Graham]

One issue that the Green Paper will have to tackle is how the Work and Health programme will use what resources it has most effectively. The Work Choice programme has been incredibly successful, but we suspect that there will not be enough money for that programme to be available to everyone, with any disability, so there are some quite difficult choices to be made. Do we focus on the people closest to the workplace or on those with the most severe disabilities, or do we try to do a mixture of both? Does my hon. Friend agree that the way we use things such as Work Choice, which has been so successful, will be key to success after the paper has been written and the policy is implemented?

--- Later in debate ---

[Neil Gray (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)]

It is a pleasure to speak with you in the Chair, Mr Stringer. I thank the hon. Member for St Ives (Derek Thomas) for securing the debate.

I recently spoke in the Chamber during the debate on the disability employment gap. In that speech, I welcomed the announcement by the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions of the Green Paper on health and work. I welcomed it on the basis that it would involve a genuine consultation process, that the Government would genuinely listen to stakeholders and that there would be genuine investment in the resulting service. The Green Paper cannot be a conduit for further cuts. It must be boldly resourced if the Government are to get close to their employment gap target. I made clear that this should have been done before the cut to employment and support allowance for those in the work-related activity group and before the cut to universal credit work allowance.

The mistakes of the past cannot, sadly, be undone, but we must do all we can to amend them. Above all else, that requires the publication of a properly-resourced Green Paper to a cast iron, copper-bottomed, concrete timetable. The delays and changes are well known: the White Paper became the Green Paper; the Secretary of State changed from the right hon. Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Mr Duncan Smith) to the right hon. Member for Preseli Pembrokeshire (Stephen Crabb); and the proposed publication date of

“well before the summer break”—[Official Report, 14 March 2016; Vol. 607, c. 633.]

became “later this year.” The Secretary of State is currently seeking employment elsewhere, and depending on who the eventual winner of the Conservative leadership contest wishes to surround themselves with, his position may be filled by another candidate anyway. Given that, it is imperative that a clear deadline and concrete timetable are announced as soon as possible. The Government should then abide by that schedule regardless of any future changes in ministerial personnel.

Given some of the ideas that have been floated today, in spite of some of the comments made by the hon. Member for St Ives I hope that he will be an ally in the Scottish National party’s call for an early and immovable timetable for the publication of the Green Paper. The fallout of Brexit and the Conservative party’s internal squabbles may be grabbing the headlines, but hon. Members and Ministers must never forget that such issues, which affect the day-to-day lives of thousands of our constituents, should always be our main priority. Nothing can justify the matter being pushed even further into the long grass. Government must go on.

[Richard Graham]

This debate has been a good example of a non-partisan, non-party political discussion of issues of crucial importance to many of our constituents. The hon. Gentleman disappoints me by going down the track of what might or might not happen in the leadership of the Conservative party. That has no relevance to the debate. It is not about having a precise timetable, to the day and hour, for the publication of a Green Paper. It is about good, long-term solutions for people with disabilities, and I would be grateful if the hon. Gentleman endorsed that.