Defence: 2.5% GDP Spending Commitment

Lord Wallace of Saltaire Excerpts

Tuesday 17th December 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

First, I congratulate the noble Lord on his service and all that he has done. He makes a good point about the importance of the cadet service. We all recognise the importance of cadets and their valuable contribution to social mobility, social cohesion and the rest. Certainly, I will reflect on the importance of that and see where we go to in discussions with government colleagues.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)]

My Lords, if the strategic defence review recommends and the Government accept that we need to spend more on defence because of the deteriorating international environment, can the Minister assure us that the additional spending will be taken out of additional taxation and not out of cuts to domestic programmes such as education, prisons and local government, and that the Government will come clean to the public that this is what they are doing and therefore, the additional taxation will be necessary?

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

I do not think that I am going to answer that. We have no plans with respect to additional taxation. I am trying to sound like my right honourable friend the Chancellor now.

On the serious point the noble Lord makes, the defence review will come forward and will put forward the threats we face as a nation and how best to meet them. We have set out the Government’s expenditure plans. I gently say to noble Lords who talk about the need for increased spending that it is important that we spend it on the right things, the things that will make a difference. Waiting for the defence review for us to determine how we best meet those threats is a sensible policy option.

Relations with Europe

Lord Wallace of Saltaire Excerpts

Thursday 10th October 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)]

My Lords, I was puzzled by the assumption in the speech of the noble Lord, Lord Hannan, that while the European Union’s negotiators have not been entirely rational in their approach to bilateral relations with us, the British negotiators since Brexit—David Davis, Boris Johnson, the noble Lord, Lord Frost, and others—have been entirely rational actors. That is perhaps something that the noble Lord will cover in a future Telegraph column.

I want to talk about the situation that we are in now. We are in a very dangerous situation for British foreign policy. For the last 60 to 70 years, we have assumed that our closest and most mutually trusting relationship is with the United States. In four weeks’ time, there will be a presidential election, which will give us either a second Trump presidency—it is highly unclear what that will mean for transatlantic relations, as he pays little attention to Britain except for his golf courses—or a Harris presidency, which will arrive contested, with law suits and quite possibly disorder, and will also distract the United States. We will have lost American leadership. In this situation, we need to go as far as we can to develop the closest possible relations and better mutual understanding with our neighbours in Europe, because those are the most trustful and important partners we have. If we are going to build closer mutual understanding, it has to include a range of relations, formal and informal, at all levels.

That is why so many of us think that youth exchanges are very important. When I first started studying the European Union, I remember discovering how much effort the French and the Germans had made to rebuild relations between their countries by encouraging student and youth exchanges and putting money into them. When we joined the European Community, as it then was, the then pro-European Conservative Government tried to do something similar, and in 1973 suggested a range of those models. Of course, in 1974, the then anti-European Labour Government cancelled those, and we have never put enough effort into it since. I say to the Minister that the argument against going back into Erasmus is that more students come to Britain than British students go there and it therefore costs us more money; the argument for going back to Erasmus ought to be that we need more British young people to travel abroad and more British students to study at European universities and learn the language. That is a matter of sufficient importance for the future of British society and British foreign policy to make going back into Erasmus worthwhile.

Furthermore, we need to have exchanges not just between parties and parliamentarians, which has already been discussed, but between police. We have lost that through leaving Europol. There is no organised crime that is purely national these days. Cross-border contacts and understanding between police forces are very important, as they are between officials at all levels. We have lost our European cadre in the Foreign Office, and the European Union works the way it does precisely because there are intense and regular contacts between officials from different countries, bilaterally and multilaterally. That is what we need to regain and what this Government need to begin to build. At that point, we will have again the mutual understanding that we need.

These are our neighbours. We need to understand each other, to work together and to negotiate with each other. For that, we need to change the way that we behave in our relationships.

Situation in the Red Sea

Lord Wallace of Saltaire Excerpts

Thursday 29th February 2024 Lords Chamber

[The Earl of Minto (Con)]

The noble and gallant Lord makes an interesting point. As part of the international force dedicated to degrading the Houthis’ effectiveness, our partners are diverting and searching vehicles, both at sea and elsewhere, to ensure that as much as possible can be stopped from arriving in Yemen. At the same time, we are looking at disrupting the manufacturing capability behind this, which of course is based in Iran.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)]

My Lords, in lessons learned, I hope the Government are also looking back at Operation Atalanta, which the noble Lord may recall was an EU operation commanded by the UK through Northwood, dealing with the Somali threat. Indeed, I recall—I was then a Minister—that there were some informal contacts between that UK-led force and Chinese naval vessels, which were also in the area. On the question of degrading, if the Houthis are mainly using speedboats and drones, how easy is it to degrade their capability over more than a very short period? Those are cheap and easy to move and therefore able to operate through all sorts of places. Are there limits to how far we can maintain having degraded them for more than a few weeks?

[The Earl of Minto (Con)]

My Lords, the point is extremely well made. All parties are conversing at a certain level. Degrading these small drones and unmanned boats is not just a question of physically destroying them but also of disrupting their ability to land where they are supposed to.

Armed Forces

Lord Wallace of Saltaire Excerpts

Thursday 7th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)]

My Lords, it is difficult to assess what size and structure of Armed Forces Britain needs without a coherent understanding of Britain’s place in a very rapidly changing world. The last Prime Minister but one was an enthusiast for turning away from commitment to the European region, with a tilt to the Indo-Pacific, for which we would need a larger Navy, and expeditionary forces able to operate at long range from the UK. The Russian invasion of Ukraine has brought attention back to European security and two changes of Prime Minister have lessened the underlying antagonism to co-operation with our neighbours, but no strategic foreign policy has emerged from recent Foreign Secretaries or Prime Ministers.

For as many years as I can remember, British foreign policy has been based on the foundation of British-American partnership, with the effectiveness of our defence forces judged by how seriously the Pentagon takes our contribution. We have to face the real prospect now that our partnership with the USA may be withering. The next presidential election could bring back Donald Trump, or see a Democratic President hamstrung by a Republican Congress sceptical of supporting Ukraine and content for European states, including the UK, to defend themselves, as we hear presidential candidates saying.

It has to be a foundational principle of British defence policy, therefore, to share in maintaining the security of our own region, extending as far as the Mediterranean, north Africa, the Baltic, the Arctic and the Black Sea. In practice, our forces have co-operated closely with the French, Dutch, Belgians, Norwegians and others for many years. A Conservative Secretary of State once said to me: “I don’t mind our doing that, so long as we don’t have to tell anyone”. I think he meant his own Back-Benchers and the right-wing press. It is high time that we made the best of working with our neighbours and recognised that in a context in which we can hardly afford to maintain the pretence of a full-range defence capability, our security is best protected by sharing tasks, training and equipment.

Part of the long-term problem of UK defence procurement has been that the effort to match the Americans in high-end war capability has led to rising costs, changing specifications and overcomplex weapons systems produced in small numbers and unattractive to export markets. One of the lessons of the conflict in Ukraine is that a larger number of lower-capability weapons may be worth more than a handful of sophisticated systems so expensive that commanders hesitate before committing them to action. The more sophisticated the systems are, the more likely that they will break down. Our Navy now consists mainly of a small number of highly sophisticated ships, many of which seem to break down frequently. Ukraine is teaching us that rapid adaptation of far cheaper and simpler civilian systems can make a real difference, and that larger numbers of units count in both attack and defence.

Another lesson of the Ukraine conflict is that you do not have to train military forces for long periods in order for them to be effective, particularly when commanders can draw on skills already acquired in civilian life. For centuries, British forces have been based on the assumption that we need long-term professional engagement for expeditionary service abroad, and that reserves are of doubtful use and unlikely to be ready in time for any unexpected crisis. As the size of our Armed Forces continues to shrink, there is a powerful case for a substantial increase in reserves.

The noble Lord, Lord Soames, mentioned the yeomanry. I am conscious of the contribution that forces from the London Scottish, now a reserve company of the Scots Guards, have made in recent years. They are valuable—they can make an enormous contribution. Ministers should now be emphasising the positive role that well-trained reserves play in strengthening the UK’s security and expanding the reserves.

The need for home-based reserve forces becomes even clearer when we take into account the importance of improving the UK’s resilience in the face of a changing pattern of threats. We have far fewer organised groups to assist with civil contingencies than many of our neighbours, let alone the USA. Assistance to the civil power used to be a significant part of the responsibilities of our forces, but they are now too small to fulfil that role.

However, as the noble Lord, Lord West, said, little can be achieved without more money. So long as the overall priority of the Government and of the Conservative Party behind them is to cut taxes, and therefore to hold down public spending across the board, little can be done to improve our security and resilience. If the choice is between an early tax cut or an improvement in our national security, which will the Chancellor, the Prime Minister and the Conservative Party choose?

Wagner Group

Lord Wallace of Saltaire Excerpts

Tuesday 11th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I think there will be a lot of sympathy with my noble friend’s point. The UK continues to highlight Wagner’s reprehensible actions. We do that around the world in whatever fora we can find, and we are not without allies and support in pursing the objective of constraining Wagner. My noble friend makes an important point, and I will certainly relay it to my noble friend Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon and undertake to try to give my noble friend Lord Bellingham a fuller response.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)]

My Lords, there are consistent reports that Wagner has been making profits from gold mining, diamonds and other minerals in Africa and that it is profiting through exporting them via the Gulf states. Have we had conversations with the Governments of the UAE and the other Gulf states about this trade? It is evading sanctions and is clearly immiserating the countries from which it is stealing these things. This is clearly a problem also in terms of Russian sanctions.

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

We are aware that Wagner has historically drawn its funding from three main sources: direct payments from the Russian Government, as President Putin has publicly admitted since the insurrection; cash payments from Governments, regimes or organisations employing Wagner, as in Libya; and natural resource concessions. We also know that Prigozhin has sought to evade sanctions through front and shell companies, both in and outside Russia. The noble Lord makes an interesting point to which I do not have a detailed response, but I shall make inquiries and respond to him if I can.

UK Undersea Infrastructure: Hostile Activity

Lord Wallace of Saltaire Excerpts

Tuesday 25th April 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)]

My, Lords, other noble Lords have asked about the national response to this international, shared problem, but it is very clear that what has to be done is a common effort by navies and air forces around the North Sea in particular. I am aware that there is very close co-operation between the Royal Navy and other navies around the North Sea, and with the Royal Air Force. I am also aware that Conservative Ministers prefer not to talk about it. Could the Minister try to encourage the Ministry of Defence to celebrate more the effectiveness of the co-operation we have with the armed forces of other countries in facing shared threats such as this?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I am not normally accused of taciturnity, so I shall try to encourage the noble Lord. He is aware, certainly, that in relation to recent activity for Ukraine the MoD has been outward facing. We have released intelligence that we have been prepared to comment on. The noble Lord is quite correct that we continue to invest in strong working relationships, partnerships and alliances, such as NATO. We co-operate on the development of new capabilities, such as the MROS vessel I just spoke about. We act in concert with our international allies. That is a very important part of the collective endeavour to try to manage risk.

Ukraine

Lord Wallace of Saltaire Excerpts

Thursday 9th February 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)]

My Lords, I want to talk about the wider context for the post-Soviet space, so to speak, for the western alliance and for British politics as such. There has been a certain amount of debate as to when this conflict started. Was it last year? Was it 2014? Was it 2008, with the Russian invasion of Georgia, or was it earlier? In effect, it began with the break-up of the Soviet Union, and the different assumptions and illusions held by the new Government of Russia and the Governments of the other states that had emerged out of the Soviet Union.

One of the most vivid memories I have out of all of this was when, at very short notice, I was asked to join a Harvard University team going out to Kyiv six weeks after Ukraine became formally independent. On the first day of the conference, the new Foreign Minister of this new country came and gave us a speech, which concluded with the wonderful declaration: “Ukraine has two major strategic objectives for the next two years. The first is to join the European Union and the second is to join NATO.” My American colleagues turned to me and said, “You’re answering that, William.” I had to explain that life was not as easy as that.

We all know that we were struggling in the 1990s to explain to the Baltic states, the Balkan states and others that the transition was a difficult one; that corruption was always a problem; and that it takes an awfully long time to institute respect for the rule of law and democratic institutions and to change the old culture, and we have not entirely succeeded.

The Russian Governments who succeeded the Soviet Union have been interfering in their neighbours and former clients almost since the word go. I have been in and out of Georgia on a number of occasions and have seen that vividly. As we are talking about destruction, I remember going to Abkhazia in 2004. Over a third of the houses in Sukhumi had been destroyed. It was absolute devastation. When I went into South Ossetia, we found ourselves surrounded in the UN convoy by little green men who objected to our inspecting the damage in various places.

This is not just about Ukraine, and it has not just happened. When we talk about how we can resolve this conflict, we also have to talk about its implications for Moldova, Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, potentially Kazakhstan, and, as the noble Lord, Lord Soames, reminded us, Serbia and the Balkans. These are all areas where we have seen active Russian interference, and where the end of this conflict, if it involved a Russian setback, would set off all sorts of other minor earthquakes. It is not totally out of the question that current Russia would disintegrate further. I have been to Tatarstan, and everyone is conscious that there are all sorts of historical tensions, of which those who are there are well aware. Coming out of this conflict, therefore, is not going to be very easy.

We all know also about Russian interference in western politics. The Intelligence and Security Committee’s report on Russia was very strong on the extent to which the Russians had penetrated the British establishment, including the Conservative Party. The incidents with the Conservative Friends of Russia and all that were not entirely spelled out in the report; let us hope that that is all behind us and that we all understand what we are dealing with.

We should still be worried that in the United States and a number of other countries, there are those on the right who sympathise with autocracy and illiberal democracy. If we were still to be in the conflict in 18 months’ time and the United States was approaching the return of a Republican President, we might find that the demand on European leadership, rather than American leadership, in resisting Russian interventions in Ukraine would be almost heavier than the Europeans could bear. After hearing the noble Lord, Lord Hannan, who is a great expert on the American right, I wonder whether he thinks that is a real problem or that the debate in the United States has also moved on and we may relax a little about the willingness of the Americans to stay the course and help to pay for the reconstruction.

We have been discussing in this debate questions such as “How long will the conflict last?”, “How will it end?” and “What objectives are we fighting for?” Yesterday, President Zelensky set out those objectives on a pretty high level. He said that we are protecting the international legal order against a terrorist state and that we must make every effort to turn our achievements into the foundations of the future global security architecture. That is ambitious, and we have not thought much about that yet.

In the 1990s, the noble Baroness, Lady Neville-Jones, did a great deal on what the post-Cold War European security architecture should be. We never got very far with it, I am afraid. Maybe that sort of question will come back. It will be very difficult for us to explain to the Ukrainian Government that joining the EU is not entirely easy, to dissuade the Georgians and heaven knows who else from wanting to do the same, and to manage the expansion of NATO if it cannot be avoided any further, while also managing the rest of the post-Soviet space. It will all be extremely difficult. We mishandled it in the 1990s, but it was very difficult to know exactly what to do.

I have some sympathy with the agony that the Russians have gone through, coming down from being an imperial power to being simply one of the major nations of the world. After all, Britain has been going through the same process and has been finding it extremely painful. There are those who wish to deny that we are not any longer as exceptional as we thought. I remember reading a wonderful book which used history to justify how exceptional Britain was: How We Invented Freedom & Why It Matters. The American edition was called Inventing Freedom: How the English-Speaking Peoples Made the Modern World, so I am sure that the noble Lord, Lord Hannan, has a degree of sympathy with the Putin essay using Russian history to justify his exceptional view of the world.

We and our public have found it difficult to adjust. The Russian population—certainly the Russian elite—have found it very difficult to adjust too. We do not know where this conflict will end. We know that it must end in a reassertion of international legal and political norms, and that does mean, as the noble Lord, Lord Hannan, said, that Russia must lose in one form or another.

Lastly, on implications for British policy, at present we do not have a coherent UK foreign policy. I look forward to the new integrated review because, after the illusions of the Boris Johnson “global Britain” order, we need to redefine. What are the implications for defence spending? Clearly, we must expand spending on defence. Political leadership, which is as important at home as it is abroad, will therefore require politicians to say, “If we are going to spend more on defence and not cut what we are spending on domestic matters, we will have to raise taxes and not cut taxes.” People, such as Liz Truss, who still go around saying that the most important answer to every single question that Britain faces is to cut taxes, may have to be countered.

Then there is the question of domestic policy on energy spending. We know that energy prices are likely to jump up and down until this conflict is over and perhaps for some time after. That also requires political leadership, in explaining to our public that these sacrifices are worth making, and that the domestic and international emergency we are in justifies these sorts of sacrifices and the additional financial burdens that we will have to suffer. We do not know where we are going or how long the conflict will last, but we know that we have to stick it out.

Ajax Vehicles

Lord Wallace of Saltaire Excerpts

Monday 12th December 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

My noble friend makes an important point. I am not going to stand here with a finger pointing blame at individual Governments. There has been a collective, cumulative process, as my noble friend describes. As far as the Army is concerned, I hope that the Land Industrial Strategy—which we published in May this year and which sets out the intent, ways of working and actions by which the Army, wider Ministry of Defence and industry will collaborate to maximise the value from investment in Army modernisation and transformation—will ensure that the Army is equipped for the future and receives the capabilities that it requires in a way that drives opportunity for UK industry and the economy but also benefits the Army.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)]

My Lords, a lessons-learned study was announced in May this year on what went wrong with the Ajax project. Can the Minister tell us what progress is being made with that study, when it is likely to be finished and whether it will be published in full or, at least, mostly in part? Can she also tell us whether the Procurement Bill, currently finishing its passage through this House, contains clauses that make it substantially less likely that another problem like this would arise?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I think the noble Lord refers to the King report—the report from the director of health and safety in the MoD. As I indicated to the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, we have implemented a number of these recommendations. In particular, we have stood up the noise and vibration working groups; that is an important development. Future trials of armoured vehicles will have real-time measurement of noise and vibration; that is very important. A dedicated cell has been established to support safety-risk governors for senior responsible owners with complex projects. They carry a huge responsibility and they need that support. On the wider issue mentioned, the Procurement Bill addresses particular issues of procurement but, at the end of the day, how procurement is done effectively in monitoring governance assessment is very much a matter of good regime within the MoD. We now have in place practices, procedures and processes to try to ensure that we are approaching these complex contracts in the best way that we can.

Ukraine: Russian Drone Attacks

Lord Wallace of Saltaire Excerpts

Tuesday 29th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I have no specific information on that matter. I can make inquiries and, if permitted, I shall disclose to my noble friend what I can.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)]

My Lords, I understand that the Iranian drones are slow, noisy and powered by the equivalent of motorbike engines, and that Ukrainians are shooting them down mainly with machine guns. Are there more modern methods of interception that the West should be providing but has not yet provided—for example, jammers and air-to-air defences?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

The noble Lord is correct in that intercepting these drones is challenging because some of them are relatively small in mass, so certain types of weaponry may be more effective than others in addressing them and trying to stop their continued progress. What I can say is that the UK continues to give air defence missiles to Ukraine; we are proud to be the second-largest donor of military equipment. We will provide additional air defence missiles to Ukraine, and we continue to provide sophisticated electronic warfare equipment, which gives additional protection against long-range drones and missiles.

Fleet Solid Support Ships

Lord Wallace of Saltaire Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd November 2022 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Baroness Goldie) (Con)]

I do not agree with the noble Lord’s assessment of a very exciting opportunity for British shipbuilding. The bulk of these ships are going to be built within the UK, particularly in the shipyard of Harland & Wolff. It is a tremendous coup for Team Resolute that they have succeeded in this. There will be extensive investment in infrastructure in Harland & Wolff’s yard. They are warships, but that is precisely why the majority of these ships will be built in the UK. He suggests that all these complex programmes and platforms are built entirely in a single country, but that is not the case, such is the technical complexity nowadays. For example, the F35, a US aircraft, is partly built in the UK. Our Dreadnought submarines and the US Columbia-class submarines will share a common missile compartment, built in both the United States and the UK. We should be celebrating what is very good news for the British shipbuilding industry.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)]

The Minister in the other place put great emphasis on the extent to which the partnership with the Spanish shipbuilder would provide technological transfer and additional skills for Harland & Wolff and other British shipyards. Can the Minister here say a little more about that? If that is indeed part of the package, that is useful for the British in rebuilding our shipbuilding capacity. If it is not, we are perhaps being sold a pup. She said that in future we have to build things jointly with our partners. The Commons Minister went further than that and said that an obsessive and excessive concern with sovereign capacity and sovereignty as such—Britain doing everything alone—is

“some sort of prehistoric antediluvian approach”.—[Official Report, Commons, 18/11/22; col. 965.]

Does the noble Baroness agree? If so, would she perhaps like to say that to a few members of the European Research Group?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

What I would say is that Navantia is a globally acknowledged shipbuilding expert. We are very pleased to be able to draw on its skills. For example, the agreement we have reached with Team Resolute means a vital skills and technology transfer. A small team of Spanish shipbuilding experts will transfer to Belfast, and Harland & Wolff will benefit from that. On the wider issue of how we build warships there is a desire to ensure that, where there are sensitive security issues, the majority of warships will be built in the UK. That is what is happening here. The majority of the blocks and modules from which the ships will be assembled will be built in the UK at Harland & Wolff’s facilities in Belfast and Appledore. Interestingly, some components will be manufactured at its sites at Methil in Fife and Arnish in the Isle of Lewis. I hope they have got their thermal vests out to prepare for the Isle of Lewis.