Rough Sleeping

Lord Spicer Excerpts

Thursday 1st February 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, this is precisely why we have the task force and the advisory committee, which, as I say, met this morning. To give an instance of how multifaceted it is, statistics produced yesterday by the GLA and St Mungo’s show that over 40% of people who are rough sleeping have alcohol problems, over 40% have drug problems and 49% have mental health problems. So it is not just about finance, although that is important. That is why we are looking at it across the piece, and why it is important that we take this forward with a cross-government approach.

[Lord Spicer (Con)]

How many empty dwellings are there in this country, and how many unused hostel beds?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, it will not be a surprise to noble Lords to hear that I do not have that figure at my fingertips. However, it is not just a question of how many empty properties there are; it is also a matter of matching them with the homeless, and they are not always in the right place. That is part of the issue and it is why local authorities now have the power to charge a premium on council tax for empty buildings. That will be part of the solution but, as I said, it is a multifaceted issue.

Homelessness: Emergency Housing

Lord Spicer Excerpts

Thursday 7th December 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Shipley (LD)]

My Lords—

[Lord Spicer (Con)]

My Lords—

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach (Con)]

My Lords, it is the Liberal Democrats’ turn.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I thank the right reverend Prelate for mentioning rural Britain. He is absolutely right that it is an important issue outside the cities and suburbs. We have trailblazer areas in relation to the prevention of homelessness throughout the country: I can think, for example, of Ryedale in Yorkshire and Uttlesford in rural Essex. There are certainly pockets—more than pockets: they are areas—of rural England where this is a real problem. We are putting in resources and are well aware of the problem. I thank the Church and in particular the cathedrals for all that they do in relation to homelessness and for the help that they provide. I have had the opportunity to see that at first hand over the last year and I thank the right reverend Prelate for his question.

[Lord Spicer]

As the Minister who set up the rough sleepers’ allowance almost 30 years ago and, as it happens, having helped to set up Crisis—Crisis at Christmas as it was then called—around 50 years ago, I must confess that I have reservations about our policy of giving out cash on the streets to almost anybody who asks for it. Will my noble friend therefore say what controls there are on this policy? Who gets the money, how much and why?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

First, my noble friend will be aware that the why is because there are many people who are homeless or rough sleeping who need it. The projects are very carefully monitored and chosen. The projects that have been selected for the rough sleeping grant, for example, are very carefully monitored. They are providing a good service in helping people who are, through no fault of their own, sleeping rough to ensure that they get somewhere on a temporary, and then hopefully a permanent, basis. I applaud the work that the noble Lord did in setting this up, particularly in London where it was first a problem before it spread more nationally. Some of that early pioneering work has helped us concentrate resources and improve on what was done initially.

Oil and Gas: UK Continental Shelf

Lord Spicer Excerpts

Tuesday 9th February 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, matters for the Budget are, of course, matters for the Chancellor. The noble Lord will know that I cannot comment on that.

[Lord Spicer (Con)]

Further to the question of my noble friend Lord Lawson, what is the projected life of the Total gas fields in Shetland?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the noble Lord is right to raise the importance of the Laggan and Tormore fields. They will be there for a substantial period. I am not sure about the precise period but, as I say, it is a massive find. The greatest part of the energy fields yet unexplored remain to the west of the Shetland Islands and are of massive importance to the country.

Energy Bill [HL]

Lord Spicer Excerpts

Wednesday 21st October 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Spicer (Con)]

Does the noble Lord at least accept that because wind is unreliable, you have to double up in the entire system. That is the whole point about wind power—you have to double up in the system in order to have it.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

No. If we have a diverse energy supply, with nuclear, wind and a whole range of other ways of producing our electricity, we do not need to double up. When the wind is blowing, we take advantage of that; when it is not blowing, we do not need to take advantage of it. However, that is part of a much wider discussion. I am saying that the amendment does not in any way go against the Conservative manifesto.

In the House of Commons, a few Tory Back-Benchers got really agitated about wind farms, for one reason or another, and in the last Parliament a Private Member’s Bill was introduced to abolish subsidies for wind farms in England and Wales only. Yet we are talking about abolishing subsidies for the whole of the United Kingdom when two-thirds of the proposed wind farms are in Scotland. As my noble friend on the Front Bench said earlier, Scotland is going to suffer immeasurably and disproportionately from what this Government are proposing. The Minister said that he listened to the devolved Administrations. Yes, he listened to them but he paid no attention to what they said; he did the opposite of what they said. That may be listening but it is not acting on what was said.

In an earlier intervention, the noble Viscount, Lord Ridley, said that this is all going to help the big landowners. I know that he speaks on behalf of the big landowners. Of course, if you want to deal with land ownership, that is another matter. I would support a major change in land ownership, and indeed that is being proposed in Scotland, although, as far as I am concerned, it does not go far enough. I would support such a change so that big landowners did not benefit from this. However, as my noble friend said, some of the schemes in Scotland, such as the one that we have had representations about from Skye, do not involve big landowners; there are community schemes that are also very important.

I hope that this House will exercise its judgment in relation to this matter by removing Clause 66 and, quoting from a well-known Scottish anthem, sending the noble Lord, Lord Bourne, and his Government “homeward tae think again”. I hope that on Report or in the House of Commons they come up with something that takes account not of their political dogma but of the real needs and the real situation in the country.

Energy Bill [HL]

Lord Spicer Excerpts

Monday 19th October 2015 Lords Chamber

One of the great successes of the British economy has been our ability to harness the resources of the North Sea. It has always been difficult and because of that it has always been expensive. When the price of oil and gas is high, such investment is possible, but with the price of a barrel now being no more than $53 or $54, at least into 2016, we are talking about very high risks and therefore we need to have the best information. We need to have another voice, which can give reasonable forecasts and another opinion, not necessarily from within government but at arm’s length from government. We would be missing an opportunity were we not to take advantage of this creature we are dealing with at the moment—the OGA—and giving it better-defined functions with a greater degree of ambition, rather than the rather limited, retrospective function we are endowing it with in this clause, if we do not amend it along the lines my noble friend has suggested.

[Lord Spicer (Con)]

I have not spoken on this subject for 25 years. I do not intend to make up for it now—in fact, my intervention will be very short. The reason that I have not spoken for 25 years is that I have been rather too close to the industry for comfort. I was a Minister for Energy in the late 1980s and took through the Electricity Bill. Subsequently I have been chairman and president of Energy UK and of the Association of Electricity Producers. I have therefore been close to the industry. It is not until now, when I have been released from those happy burdens, that I feel that I can say at least a short work about energy matters.

In the present context, two things matter to the energy industry, particularly the petroleum industry in the North Sea. They are, first, certainty and stability, particularly in government policy, and, secondly, less rather than more regulation. On the question of certainty, we have to recognise that the petroleum industry in the North Sea is very fragile. My noble friend Lord Howell has mentioned that at the moment it is also very poor. There are questions as to how many more burdens it can bear.

I was thinking about the question of certainty just now when it comes for instance to the nuclear industry. We have now got the Chinese beginning to enter the fray. My mind goes back to when I talked to the Americans about flogging off bits of our privatised nuclear industry to them and got into terrible trouble with the Prime Minister at the time, Lady Thatcher. It is slightly ironic to me that we are now talking to the Chinese about the same subject.

Be that as it may, the question of certainty is terribly important. That brings me to the amendment. The noble Baroness fears the threat of privatisation. I do not see the point of setting something up for the purpose of privatisation. We have already been told that there are probably too many players in the industry in the North Sea at the moment and that they are too stretched. Therefore, my suspicion is that we are talking about more regulation. I cannot understand the argument of the noble Baroness at all on this point. I hope that it is not about more regulation and that the Minister will tell me that it is not. However, I think that it has to be about regulation. That is why I agree with my noble friend Lord Howell that if, as I think, it is about more regulation we have to be fearful about whether the industry can sustain the costs, particularly in the North Sea. Therefore, I have the opposite view to the noble Baroness and I hope that my noble friend will be able to reassure me on this point.

[Lord Teverson]

My Lords, I was pleased to add my name to this amendment. I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Spicer, that we do not want any more regulation than we need, but I do not see this as bringing forward greater regulation.

In my business career I learned three things in particular. The first was that you should concentrate and keep your mind on your core activity. I felt a certain resonance when the oil and gas industry wrote about this amendment that actually that was the imperative thing that needed to happen because—as I know from my extended family—at the moment that industry is under threat. There is great retrenchment and difficulty, so the OGA needs to concentrate strongly on its responsibilities for the oil and gas industry.

Having said that, the second thing that I learned from practice was that you can concentrate as much as you like on the business that you are in but the most important thing is to follow the market. That is not exactly what you can do here, but what is clearly true is that the future will be about carbon capture and storage. This is a core part of government policy and all of our policy on climate change and carbon emissions. Therefore there needs to be a real future for this sector and these facilities. That is why it is important that that element is brought into this part of the Bill and will be there for the future. I take perhaps the naive example of Beeching and the railways; now down in the south-west we are trying to reopen one or two of the lines that were closed back in the 1960s. If we thought more about future uses and what happens after our actions, we might moderate and think more about decisions for the longer-term future.

The third thing I learned from business was “right first time”, which is the best thing to remember as a principle for running any organisation. It seems to me that getting it “right first time” on this issue would be to make sure that we take into consideration carbon capture and storage, and what that offers in terms of solving our climate change issues, as well as to use the facilities, the network and the vital assets that are currently in the North Sea. We need to include that in legislation now rather than in the future.

Estates of Deceased Persons (Forfeiture Rule and Law of Succession) Bill

Lord Spicer Excerpts

Wednesday 15th June 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Spicer]

My Lords—

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

My Lords—

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

My Lords, I think the noble Lord, Lord Spicer, and I have something to say.

[Lord Spicer]

My Lords, I had not meant to say anything at all until I heard some of the arguments. It seems that the 1972 Act is not totally invulnerable. Factortame was a nasty scare. Therefore, the last thing that we want to do at this stage is to throw further doubt on the 1972 Act by talking about “an Act” rather than the 1972 Act.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

My Lords, I have two questions for the Minister that I asked in Committee but to which I did not get an answer. First, will he confirm that the noble Lord, Lord Kerr of Kinlochard, is 100 per cent right when he says that when the happy day comes—he did not put it like that—when the 1972 Act is repealed by the House of Commons and your Lordships’ House, it will then be definite that we are out of the European Union?

However, the question is not quite as simple as that. In January 1997, your Lordships were good enough to give Second Reading to a Bill in my name that did exactly that—it repealed the 1972 Act. At the time I was advised by the Clerks that this would still leave us with a problem from the Eurosceptic point of view, which wants nothing to do with any European legislation whatever. That problem would be that all the EU law that had been sewn into domestic law since 1972 would remain valid in British law. At the time, the Clerks advised me that one is not allowed to introduce a Bill into your Lordships’ House that is not capable of practical fulfilment. Their advice at the time was that it would have taken 12 parliamentary draftsmen some three months to identify all EU law sewn into domestic law, which could then have been repealed at our leisure. I am glad to say that they even suggested having a massive Henry VIII clause at the end of the procedure. Therefore, my first question to the Minister is: would it really still be the case that EU law remained in British law? There is far too much of it; nowadays the majority of our national law is passed in a wholly undemocratic process in Brussels to the exclusion of Parliament in this country.

My second question to the Minister was, and is, as follows. When, as I say, the joyous day comes that the 1972 Act is repealed, that surely means that the Lisbon treaty falls in its entirety, because the Lisbon treaty is only an amendment to several other amendments to the 1972 Act. When that happens, is this country still obliged to follow the provisions of the Lisbon treaty which govern how a country leaves the European Union? That is a process, I think—I may be wrong—under Article 50 of the Lisbon treaty, which takes two years and puts the Council in charge of the process and, indeed, the cost of the country leaving the European Union. When we repeal the 1972 Act, does that provision fall as well? Are we then, as the noble Lord, Lord Kerr, said, free of the whole wretched thing, or are we still bound by Lisbon? What about the domestic law which is sewn into our law? Surely that remains binding until repealed by Parliament.